It pisses me off how you get so little views for the amount of effort you put into these videos. Your video creating skills and editing skills are a real talent.
@@merezko4339 is it better than Chants of Sennaar? I've been playing that one, trying to learn the language. It's not super fun but more like a crossword- it will kill time better than staring at a wall. Tunic is on my wishlist, as a puzzle game lover, but I'm having second thoughts after this video and Chants. Any opinions?
@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid well if you want my not sarcastic opinion, its more top-down Zelda with puzzles more akin to Fez. With progression checks like Outer Wilds If that sounds good try it, you'll know withing the refund period if you want to finish it.
the witness is about the learning process and perspective. Learning new perspectives is what you do all the game, including the eviromental puzzles and the audio and the videos. Even the statues have secrets you only see on certain perspectives. Those perspectives can be conflitant, like religius people and atheists, scientists and artists, some even say that is meaningless to search for knowledge, but you aquire all those perspectives. And you learn more about the world by doing that. Many many many puzzles you learn how to solve it by looking from a diferent perspective, some times literaly. Is about pursue of knowledge itself
this video was so wonderful and relatable, thank you so much for making it. i feel like you've put my own feelings into such good perspective and it's relieving. i can't believe there aren't more views on the video, but i'm sure it will be cherished by those who have yet to experience the witness, or want to learn about it
holy heck a video essay about the witness edit: whoa this video is awesome yeahh this game is something i didnt have the witness key art for my phone wallpaper for a while for no reason (its slime rancher key art now) edit2: TUNIC GGOAT
I feel like The Witness is demonstrative of how desperate we are for narratives in games - even puzzle games. There's no "You win!". There's no conclusive catharsis - the only semi-satisfying "little bow on top" of the experience is The Secret of Psalm 46. And for as hard as that is to find, it doesn't really explain much. I remember being really distraught finishing The Witness right after it came out - I was a big fan of Braid, but analyzing Braid vs The Witness was like watching The Little Mermaid vs Nostalghia. It's still a game that vexes me, but I think I'll take Braid's ultimate warning to heart and not get too invested in pursuing a truth that might bring about my own destruction. Better to be all zen and just appreciate the game as a meditative experience. Also I'm assuming you've seen Brian Moriarty's "I Saw What I Did There" talk, but to anyone that hasn't, it's very worth watching. It's a cute "passing of the torch" sort of followup to the game and its inclusion of Psalm 46 (as well as Trinity and Braid). It also humanizes Jonathan Blow way more than what you'd get from reading his Twitter (not that that's a good thing, but it helps to have *some* warm and fuzzy feelings about why he made The Witness. Like I said at the top, I crave that narrative catharsis.)
wow. what a video. i wanted a video to stick on in the back of my maths homework and from the first sentence, i got 0 work done. ive never related more in opinion to any video, person or idea. the scene at 40:45 sums up my mind exactly. a tumble dryer. in the video when you mention view count, i thought you mustve been exaggerating, and i look and see this video has 2k views. i was expecting millions. this is unbelievably underrated. thank you for making this. i too, hate the witness. i too, love the witness.
Thank you for what is now possibly my favorite TH-cam video, and screw you for successfully passing the curse of not being able to stop thinking about this game for all of its beauty and flaws onto me
The Witness is my favorite game. I'm sure you understand why, even if you don't feel the same way. I love how you communicate your complicated feelings in a relatively straight-forward way. It makes me want to do something similar, even if my thoughts skew generally toward awe, even for the Spira video lol. Thank you for making this, and thanks youtube for recommending this.
I so strongly feel the same way about this game, thank you for conveying this weird middle resentfully-in-love feeling about the game so well, on a level that I really resonated with. That scream in the last quarter really sums it up so well and felt so second-hand cathartic. Bless.
Amazing video. Absolutely loved it from beginning to end. Subbed and I send you a hug for this hard work. What you say about the game defying definition is very true, it's like it's one giant paradox, you can never put it to sleep, even when you accept that you can't, it will always poke at your mind from time to time years after its release, like a beautiful song with some odd chords and an abrupt ending. Anyway, I'll go enjoy the rest of your content :)
I really cannot comprehend the criticism of “your reward for solving puzzles is more puzzles.” In other games, your reward for successful platforming is more platforming! Your reward for killing enemies is more enemies! It’s a goddamn puzzle game! What were you expecting?
my best guess is some sort of resolution, like to a story potentially. the witness just throws you right back into itself after finishing it, like you're some sort of prisoner. you don't really know why you're doing it. probably just for the dopamine. this game could very much just be a website, but it presents it self as something with mystery and beauty. but then you dig into it and it feels more like a big shit post. its the weirdest thing. now a days i just kinda enjoy it like it's a piece of art. i like taking screenshots with the nvidia ansel support, or just listening to the ambience and enjoying the world as if it were a painting. it's just beautiful and that's all it should be. but again, the game has so much shit post in it. it's confusing and weird and unlike anything i've seen before. and for that reason alone, i suppose it's okay
Hi, sorry for responding so late! The points I make in the first five minutes are intentionally a bit inflamatory and unfair as I'm talking about the game through the perspective I saw it through 7 odd years ago. Obviously, yeah, a puzzle game will have lots of puzzles in it, and yeah, more gameplay is the reward if the game is fun (which it is! (mostly)). I think the problem I had (and still sort of have, to an extent) is that the game sets up a mystery and then doesn't deliver on it in any meaningful way (IMO). It didn't give me the context I felt I was owed to justify the gameplay. It gave me the expectation that they'd be more to see, and then threw a bunch of puzzles at me and wandered off to the shops (for a sandwich).
@@soitssparkie That’s a fair criticism. The story is pretty disappointing. But still, I can’t really think of any puzzle games I’ve played that have a good story, except for Portal.
this is one of my favorite videos on this entire platform. i had the EXACT same thoughts and experience as you with playing this game. using the IGN guide, going back and thinking about the game, replaying it, not being able to get it out of your head. this game is special, this game sucks, this game is one of my favorites. there is not a game so far up it's on ass like this one is. and somehow with all of that being said it's still so great and meaningful. 10/10 video, this was a gem, please keep making content
I still can't do 11:56 with the checkerboard Tetris shape. I get the logic that there's 12 squares total, and with the 2 blue subtractor pieces it makes for 10 squares - and there is 10 squares in the solution. But every combination-shape puzzle requires you do not break up the shapes... Which right away brings up the question: how does a checkerboard alone get solved? Adding the 2nd shape isn't making the solution possible. One day I'd like this one explained to me. I tried and tried but ultimately did the "incel before discovering 4chan" thing.
One of the negatives cancels the center of the t-shape, leaving this shape: T_T _T The other negative cancels the bottom left square of the checkerboard shape. The remainder of the t-shape fills in the gaps of the checkerboard shape, resulting in this combined shape: C_C TCTC CTC _C Note that the square that is canceled in the t-shape is still present in the combined shape because it is also a square in the checkerboard shape.
@@den--- Thank you for explaining that. I get it, but it still breaks the game's rules. If you made something fit inside something else, it wouldn't work. Like you can't subtract a block from a 4-line and run another shape through the opening. That's effectively what is going on with the checkerboard AND the T shape. I find there's other exceptions to rules, but they're logically introduced (like matching a star with a square of same color, instead of another star.) This one is a stand out exception to the rules, imo.
So: I ended up here by accident. TH-cam recommended me another video about The Witness. But I'm done with The Witness. I did my bit for Queen and Country 8 years ago. But someone says the "hate it and love it"? OKAY. FINE. I'll watch a couple of minutes and see how it goes. Probably someone who has not seen The Unbearable Video. This comment has structure and I've sort of spoiled the punchline, so bugger it. I watched all of this video: thank you, it was hilarous and also a shock to see my younger face suddenly leer out at me in the middle of it. I still harbour a few mixed feelings about the game - some of which I vented in the Secret Video (TM). But the delivery of the audio logs has always been... meh. Otherwise, have a lovely day. P.S. I skipped the Tunic bit. On my bucket list...
@@Electrondance bloody hell, never expected to see you here! Thank you for making the wonderful now, really did help me appreciate some parts of the game I struggled to (and still struggle too!). And thank you for the lovely comment!
@@soitssparkie life is a struggle just like the game, see it all makes perfect sense. it's basically dark souls but the bell gargoyles are just jonathan blow. sorry, this does not make sense. i'd better delete these lines before i hit reply by accid
29:23 this is applicable to Yiik: a postmodern rpg (I.V update coming soon!) as well. i damn near say that hellkrai’s videos on the game are a prerequisite before even watching a cutscene compilation because the game made it so hard to even notice the postmodern elements at all, even when it’s in the damn title!
I've tried so much to look further into this game - replaying it, watching video essays on it, reading texts, and generally just thinking about it practically once a day at this point. And yet it doesn't fully make sense. Sure, a lot of the video essays sound logical - The Unbearable Now by ElectronDance. the literary analysis by The Gemsbok. but they don't feel like they *explain* what The Witness is, why it makes me feel how I do. And honestly.. that feels by intention. To me, the 'point' of this game is to make you think for yourself. Sure, you can use guides, but do you get any meaning out of that? do you ever get anything out of taking a shortcut? You get the same effect from actually trying to solve some puzzles; you'll be stuck on a puzzle for half an hour, only to realize you were looking at the entire wrong thing. When trying to analyze what the more sophisticated seeming parts of the game mean, it seems to refute itself constantly, almost telling you off for even trying to understand it. Every essayist I've watched both make sense, and sound nonsense once you listen to another one. it just makes you go in a loop over and over without learning anything until you settle on your own conclusion. Is that that it's a commentary on the quiet moments and taking your time? is the entire point to just fuck with the player and make them waste their time? is the point to add bullshit to make it hard to definitively decide when you think of the game? is it a deeper art piece that is incomprehensible to anyone but it's creator? To me, it's about finding what you want to think of the game. any answer you come to, they're all correct. because in the end, everything is about what you believe, and not what was intended to be believed. The standard "game" part of The Witness is phenomenal and I will forever love it for it's creativity, it's art, and how it made me feel. And I've learnt to appreciate the deeper meaning just for being there, even if I don't understand it. and I will not understand it. and I shouldn't want to understand it.
What a great video. I think it's particularly... funny? I'm gonna go with funny, that in in the midst of all this there's specific praise for The Secret of Psalm 46, because the whole thrust of that is that we are defined by an instinctive Need To Solve It, it's why most of this game feels so good, including, especially, the realization that there are bigger layers to it, wider scopes of puzzle, that even when everything is done, there's still _more_ there, but that at the same time, this instinct can go horribly wrong, leading us to spiral into nonsense in an attempt to solve puzzles that aren't even there. My own interpretation of the actual ending to the actual plot of The Witness is that the whole experiment they discussed did work, in that it produced the intended fully vivid sensory dive experience, but also that it was a complete failure, because instead of leading the subject to any kind of ultimate truth it just turned him into an introspection machine who tries to find puzzles everywhere. They tried to capture, like, enlightenment, or something, in a video game, and _sell_ it to people, and their attempt to bottle it turned it into poison, because they missed the common theme of all the science and philosophy they literally cite inside the simulation; that the search has value in and of itself, but never by reference to the answer arrived at, that the answer can never be valuable, even if it's really true. So too does anyone attempting to _definitively_ state the ultimate meaning in The Witness eventually spiral into bunk, even while many excellent interpretations exist, even if it has an _intended_ meaning. It really is just about looking at things, and yet, and yet, the greatest things to just look at are the ones that manage to wedge themselves so deep in our mind that we are unable to stop remembering them, unable to dissuade ourselves of the notion that [there's still more to discover here], if we just take another look... This is how you end up making long TH-cam retrospectives in an attempt to finally stop thinking about something, only to thereby inevitably attract comments attempting to provide more to think about. Sorry about that, by the way. (I think the six windmill videos in particular are each centered around one of the ways in which any attempt to encapsulate ultimate truth is on a conceptual level doomed to failure) There's all kinds of meaning in all kinds of stuff but kind of by definition you can't really _have_ a thing whose meaning is the meaning in stuff, because the meaning in stuff can't be a _thing_. It's just us, finding meaning. In stuff. How do you even make anything of that other than a joke. It's the funniest goddamn thing I ever heard.
1:40 I'm jumping to conclusions based on this intro so sorry if you make it clear you changed your mind later in the video or something, but any time I see videos on this game start like this I feel bad, cause unlike what you seem to imply the game agrees with you here. It *is* just a copout ending, it *is* just another version of the Tetris effect. The experiment the in lore pretentious VR experience memory eraser fake dev team did by making the island, *failed*. The point the game is trying to say is, something like Hey, solving these puzzles is fun and all and we hope you enjoy it, and get better at observing the world around you, but you won't find real enlightenment looking at a bunch of line puzzles on a screen. Wake up, go observe the real world.
The Witness and Tunic are both my favorite games, but Tunic is more of a casual game with hard puzzles, and The Witness is a meditative experience with the final boss of puzzle games. It took me 5 years to try The Witness again, after I refunded it on the first try. It took me another 2 years and (only) 70 hours of playtime to properly explore and finish the game.
@@henri3170 they're still part of the game though... If I order a salad at a restaurant, they dish it up, it's divine, but it's got some rotten tomatoes in it, I'm gonna complain about the tomatoes! Just because I can pick them out doesn't mean I can't complain about them being shit.
@@soitssparkieit's more like going to an all you can eat and deciding whether or not you wanna partake in the eating of the salad/story or not. Fair enough if you don't like it, I'm a JoBlo hater, The Witness has some shit going for it but how much of that is him or the people he employs? People put a lot of weight on his design as if he is still a solo Dev. But I think story being optional, like in The Witness or Dark Souls is kinda like having a salad bar at an all you can eat. Whether or not that salad is good or shit doesn't matter, cause you can choose whether or not you even eat it in the first place.
4:31 - you were _fifteen_ when this game came out god _damn_. I was 31 years 5 months 9 days old (no I don't have that memorized I wolfram-alpha'd it). Loved this game and still do; it's my favorite video game of all time. 31:05 - science vs art _is_ explored -- or, at least, represented mechanically. As is how they intersect. You're right that The Witness is extremely unstructured. It presents a bunch of ideas in different domains using different mediums at different levels of abstraction, and vaguely gestures at their relation. But _discovering_ those relations _for yourself_ is (to me!) what the game is "about", if anything. 31:30 - It is always interesting to me to hear something like "it feels like [the game] is constantly trying to prove ..." about this game, when to me it is abundantly clear the game isn't trying to prove anything at all about itself. It's like, people hear an "isn't that interesting" spoken in a haughty tone coming directly from Jon Blow's mouth after the umpteenth audio log or video or whatever, when... it's not actually there. The audio/video just plays, and that's it. That's all that happens. What is making you add this on?
Most of what is special about the game happens inside your head. If you look up a walk-through, the part that is special about the game happened in someone else's head.
The Witness is a special game. I agree, the Witness is visually pleasing af. It also gave me so many heureka! moments. The environment puzzles blew my f-ing mind. Beating the timed challenge was incredibly satisfying. One added note: The music was stressing me out, the second I muted it I beat the challenge 2nd try. I thought outside the box. Yes, on my first playthrough, after 2/3 I gave in and I used some puzzle solutions to see the ending. And I regret that. But I redeemed myself, because I learnt to beat the timed challenge. It took me a year and serveral replays and watching others play the game, but I did it. And now, it is one of my favourite games of all time. It is one of the games, I install every few years and do a full playthrough of. I even challenge myself. How fast can I beat it, without learning all solutions. Last time I checked, it was something along 6 hours. I never knew what «videogames are art» really meant, until I played the Last Of Us Part 2. Art is thought-provoking. It doesn’t have to be good, just thought provoking. Good art makes you think about yourself and the world around you. The things you describe the witness with: I want to love it unconditionally, with out «but....», but I can’t. This is how I feel about The Last Of Us Part 2. I don’t have this problem with The Witness. I do love The Witness and I don’t care about some parts, that feel irrelevant in my personal opinion. Look, you made this 50 minute video. And now I am envious, because you did, what I have wanted to do for years now. But I am fine with it - the game being imperfect and the fact that, I have not made a The Witness video. Thanks for 50 minutes of The Witness content.
The lack of coherent story is what bothers me the most. I was solving puzzles for seven hours, until I finally found a tape recorder/player. I remember thinking: "Okay now we'll have some story!" and then it was just an audio about how the international space station is cool. Then I've found a projection room and the screen from a special room I found, when a video started playing I thought: "Now we'll get some story!" But it was just a woman with the most annoyingly calm voice in the world talking some coach crap about "stop wanting". By that time, the puzzles were already pretty hard, I did like you and started looking for answers, but thought to myself: "If I keep looking at youtube/ign there will be no meaning to this game." and quit.
I lucked out and got the Feynman and Burke videos first. "Hey, I love these guys!" But before that when I found my first recorder it was the one on the guitar amp in the castle, "When people ask me about the meaning of you in my work I laugh" - I thought "there's going to be a really deep story here..." Boy was I wrong.
Writing on a piece of paper to solve puzzles is not cheating. It is part of the game. The game is one step away from just saying use a paper at the beginning of the game.
@@soitssparkie if you haven't played lock on the game called "dreams" it's very reminiscent of the witness but sort of better. Also that's a shame the people get mad at others for writing things down. Like I said the game all but says write things down
Your criticisms of The Witness' story (well, really themes) reminds me of similar criticisms of Dark Souls or Elden Ring having "no story"--or, at the very least, an excessively obscured and unreadable story. I think it's a mistake to hold games, or art in general, accountable for the narrative you make of them. The Witness, like a lot of art, is only really about projection. It intentionally makes space for interpretation in order to allow the player to reflect on its subject matters, and challenge their beliefs. Some art is about the author telling you explicitly what to think, and some art is about giving you a bunch of things to think about--and The Witness, if anything, certainly falls into the later, rather than the former. Part of the Witness' biggest twist is realizing that you're playing a video game, and jumping out of that experience--literally, within the game, applying the game-ified knowledge of puzzle solving into your surrounding environment. The thesis at the end isn't a definitive "this is what The Witness is about", but rather an invitation to think about the world in the same way that you thought about the puzzles. I think you fail in treating games as art when you segment the encompassing experience from your analysis of its value as a narrative. From Software stories are similarly judged, in similar ways; surface observation of stories in a vacuum often misjudges their actual ability to convey meaning, and reduces their expression to a minority of the overarching experience. The practice of reduction or abstraction for analysis is, in my opinion, mostly just a cheap method employed by TH-camrs to force objective analysis into a primarily subjective medium. We shouldn't reduce art, or single out any specific aspects. Let's take a specific example; the videos in The Witness are interesting because they're in The Witness, and by being in The Witness, they are a part of the wider whole that can be appreciated in a vastly different context. By forcing you to watch them during certain puzzles, the game is forcing you to contend with your own thoughts, and meditate on your understanding of the game thus far. Their inclusion, like everything else, literally demands observation, but there's also a touch of irony--are these interesting thoughts, or puzzles? By game-ifying the game's non-screen puzzles, don't they just become yet another example of people not "seeing with their eyes"? I think there's a bit of an irony that the game teaches you to pay attention to the logic in your environment, challenge said environment's authenticity, only to get lost in the sauce and tune observable fact out of reality due to the compelled nature of video games as objective-based. So what about the "pointless" perspective tricks in the environment? Are those truly pointless then, if your perspective of something in-game having "a point" is only measured by what the game suggests is important. Are the puzzles themselves not equally pointless, if they provide no further benefit beyond themselves? What does that all mean? Fucking nothing--it doesn't have to, just like how the puzzles don't have to reward you either. Paintings aren't bibles--they aren't here to force your answer, or even demand you have an answer. Paintings ask you to sit, and observe, and get whatever you want to put into them. For some people, The Witness is a meditation on perception, for others it's the masturbatory ramblings of a madman who got lost in his own sauce, for me it's about projection. None of these are truly accidental--I mean, I don't think Jonathan Blow likes you calling him pretentious, but I certainly don't think his goal was to force you to agree with him on anything, or see things "from his perspective." What matters is that the game compels your own interpretation, and it does that for damn near everybody who interacts with it. I think your experience with The Witness is just like that; an experience with the game so compelling that it's worthy of a pretty well made video. I don't think it's a mistake of the game that you're frustrated with the game, or embarrassed by its overtly artsy presentation--rather, that's just another aspect of extracting meaning from the game, and one you clearly gained a lot of value from. If The Witness were bad at exploring its themes of observation and extracting meaning, then you wouldn't be observing it, or extracting meaning from so much of it. If The Witness is bad for being a meditation, rather than an explanation, of its themes, then your video would also be bad for the exact same reason--a non-committal admission that you really don't have a strict thesis, or something definitive to say about the game. And that's cool--I hope you liked thinking about the game, and I hope you keep thinking about it in the future.
First of all, THANK YOU for being nice! I was really worried making this video last year that I would get flooded with derogatory essays in the comments, so to see this in my notifications and then read it and it NOT be an extended look at the all the ways I am a imbecile was very refreshing! Very rare to have civil comments from people who disagree with me! It's nice! Thank you! Second of all, I disagree that games, or art in general, can't be criticized as long as I get a strong emotional response from them. I got strong emotional responses from Twelve Minutes, or Fallout 76, but I also think those games are terrible. Not objectively (I agree with you that objectivity in media criticism is stupid, it's all just opinions at the end of the day) but subjectively, I think they're awful. I would rather a game be terrible than uninteresting or bland, because at least I'm getting something out of it, but I would still rather it be good, y'know. I don't think art should get a free pass at not really saying anything (in my opinion), just because all the ways I can have fun picking apart the ways it fails to say something count as it saying something. I think vagueness in storytelling can work: Elden Ring's mostly just vibes but they're compelling vibes. I come away from it with positive thoughts and feelings about that world, with stuff to think about. The Witness gave me loads of stuff to think about, but I found myself bashing my head against a wall trying to extract any sort of meaning that resonated with me. It's that puddle analogy everyone uses with Bethesda games, "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle". I don't really get anything from thinking about what The Witness is saying, it's just noise to me. But there is lots to think about! Does me thinking about it anyway make it successful as art, maybe, probably, I dunno, I'm not a scientist. But I don't think it's successful in the ways I want it to be. Hopefully some of that made sense! I don't have a degree in media analysis or anything, I'm just a dipshit with lots of thoughts on things. Is Jonathon Blow lost in the sauce, or am I lost in the sauce? You decide!
@@soitssparkie Thanks for the reply! I can see you enjoy doing this a lot, and I hope you keep up with it. I don't think art can't be criticized as long as it gets a strong emotional response, I just think there's a palpable difference between The Witness and something like 12 Minutes; because 12 Minutes *is* a conventional story, with themes and a plot. Nobody should, or would describe 12 Minutes as an art piece, because it isn't the convention it fits itself into, and so your expectations of it having a solid thesis to back up its events are far higher. Conventional media has conventional requirements, whereas unconventional media doesn't. I guess Elden Ring was a bad direct comparison, simply because Elden Ring *does* have a conventional plot. I was more comparing how the context of genre and convention (story-centric RPGs, for Elden Ring) can often obscure the artistic goals of games. Elden Ring "not having a plot" is pretty overtly incorrect, considering all of the text dedicated to that plot, and dialogue, and visuals, but it's said only because it lacks a *conventional* plot, and as such, fails to have any plot at all--to some. Quality, or something being good, is only really a matter of context, and comparison; The Witness only fails at achieving a conventional result if you're seeking a conventional result from it--which are the flaws inherrent to Fallout 76, or 12 Minutes. That they ultimately use the language of other trope media, and fail to successfully answer to those expectations. I'd honestly only really argue that The Witness' main flaw is the execution of the final cutscene--not its inclusion. I like the idea of the game escaping the conventional medium as a conclusion, but Jonathan Blow just isn't really a filmmaker, and he could've like... payed someone else to make something more interesting filmed, in-my-opinion. It's not bad, and I find the idea of it compelling, but it's just kind of unintentionally awkward in a way that pulls back rather than immersing the player--which is a shame. It's the artistic equivalent of accidentally leaving a splotch of blue on your all-white canvas art installation. It's not necessarily "incorrect", but it is ultimately an amateur distraction from a more interesting idea. If I were to change it, I'd replace it with an interview with Jonathan Blow; describing his reasons for making the game--like a tag in a modern art gallery. A signature to close off the experience, rather than an abrupt shift to literalism--with all the implied VR shit and the piss bottle. Pull back the curtain, face the audience, and say "You're playing a video game I made, and I want you to dwell on that a bit." Less 2001: A Space Odyssey, and more End of Evangelion.
been a while since i finished the game, but don't you need to complete the music box challenge (I consider this the end game boss) to be able to get the code to unlock the final ending?
Something that's always erked me is that the game has such a focus on buddhism and hinduism, but is never presented by anyone from Asia. It's only white people. Art gurus filtering it through a western lens. It feels disingenuous.
So strange that you took all your interpretations as straight up correct and didn't consider that you might have misunderstood the game. It seems that all other interpretations are pretentious by default to you. That's really sad, because I think you missed something there.
@@soitssparkie But you also simply state as a fact that the ending is meant as a joke, and you find that terrible. There are other ways how you can see it that leave a less terrible image. There are parts of the game that you didn’t find a meaningful relation to, like most of the cinema films or the secret ending. And instead of acknowledging that there could be perspectives of those that are more meaningful, you seem to judge all that see more depth in the game than you do as pretentious.
where do I do that? There's the bit at 40:00 where I make fun of certain fans that view their opinion as better than everyone else's, but I can't remember anywhere else where I paint someone else's opinion as pretentious? A big theme of the video is my frustration at wanting to appreciate the game as much as others do. I have nothing but envy for the people who actually get something out of the videos or the secret ending. I think Blow is pretentious, but I don't think anyone that gets something out of his ideas is (unless they're a twat about it)
@@soitssparkie I think it's kinda fun to call him pretentious. However, does he really pretend? There is a lot he put into the game that has nothing to do with solving the puzzles of the game itself. I mean, you know that, as you have also commented on the game confronting the player with different ways of acquiring knowledge. In a way, the larger puzzle is life itself. JoBlo is very careful in interviews, and despite his talking a lot about other, more mundane topics, he won't talk very much about contemplative topics. But he sometimes did a bit, and he definitely is on some sort of "path" if you will, he has had some insights. Instead of talking about it directly and intellectually, he created a work of art about this. In The Unbearable Now, which you mention as well if I remember correctly, there are also references to insight traditions like buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. Those have a little comeback nowadays, and some of their practices and ideas have a comeback in the contemporary science of psychology, which uses realtime brain scanners to verify some of their claims, and integrates the verifiable portions of such teachings into methods that can be applied in psychology and medicine. One of the early successes was the MBSR program. This creates a weird space now. There is an unorganized, decentralized movement of people who find to _something like_ a spirituality, but it is free from any supernatural belief or woo and completely compatible with a materialistic worldview. It's basically the subjective side to the objective science of psychology, and stands to it in the same relation as personal fitness and exercising stands to the science of medicine or physiotherapy. You might notice that this comment of mine has been going on for quite a while already. And there would be at least a whole book to write if I were to write it all down with at least a modest amount of accuracy and completeness. And even then, just hearing or reading the words wouldn't really help anyone. The other way of communicating this is without words. "Show, don't tell." Which is basically a form of art, in the same way as you could regard a Zen koan as art rather than intellectual communication. There aren't many artists doing stuff like that. Maybe the poems of David Whyte could be regarded in this context. Tomas Peeters with his "Zero Distance" observatories for sure. And The Witness definitely falls into this category too. However, it's so damn difficult to convey this. Because if you start talking about it, there is the enormous danger that people will think that you're talking about woo, basically like one of those quacks like Deepak Chopra. Maybe it truly is the better approach to NOT talk about this, but only make art about it that is intended to speak for itself in a wordless way. If you do that, many people who observe this art will come out saying that it's all just intentionally obscure, and it's all just pretend and therefore pretentious. Some will see the depth in it, some won't. Is what Rupert Spira and Gangaji say truly just nonsense? Are they effectively in the same category as a Deepak Chopra or a Russel Brand? There would be a lot to say about this, a lot more than I can put into this comment. And I know that this is not just a game of pretend.
I agree, the puzzles are good the mystery is good until the dramatic reveal. Then the mystery, and by extension the puzzles used to try and unravel the mystery (shoutout ign for the mountain puzzles) feel like dogshit. Also the jungle sucks from a game design perspective in 2 ways IMO. Now, this is a 2015 game, but still subtitles and captions were in Portal and Minecraft, so they could/should have at least had an option for those. Also they block off a pathway you've likely used the whole area near the end, so if you haven't done the monastery enough to have that shortcut, haha walk allllllll the way around dumbass and sip that piss bottle
Did you ever think that Jonathan Blow was trying to make a point with the ending? You don’t have to obsessively finish all of the puzzles to achieve an ending. That’s your choice. Just be with the puzzles, enjoy the atmosphere and take only the parts you enjoy. Nobody forces anyone to watch those videos and you don’t even need to watch them all to finish the game. We are so obsessed with getting to the end that we never take stock of the present. One of the videos with the guy and the candle sort of illustrates that point. At least to me. So I interpret the Tetris Effect ending as us getting made fun of showing you what happens when you can’t stop because you must finish the game. It wasn’t the end that was miraculous. It was the journey (cliche I know but you even said yourself you enjoyed wandering the world) You also keep going back to the game and I assume you start over each time. Isn’t that the same reward you get when you enter the elevator?
also awesome video, I've never played this game, but I've watched someone else play The Looker a few years back and I think even if I plan to never play The Witness still, it's great that it exists because then The Looker exists and also this great review that makes me wonder whether I should reevaluate my plan to never play it that I've made by watching this review.... wasn't there The Pedestrian? no that's something else man, to think I found you from Vlare
It pisses me off how you get so little views for the amount of effort you put into these videos. Your video creating skills and editing skills are a real talent.
It got him 1 more sub. At least.
ah, you see, Tunic is a piece of refined intellect, that is enjoyed by geniuses such as us.
@@merezko4339 is it better than Chants of Sennaar? I've been playing that one, trying to learn the language. It's not super fun but more like a crossword- it will kill time better than staring at a wall.
Tunic is on my wishlist, as a puzzle game lover, but I'm having second thoughts after this video and Chants. Any opinions?
@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid well if you want my not sarcastic opinion, its more top-down Zelda with puzzles more akin to Fez.
With progression checks like Outer Wilds
If that sounds good try it, you'll know withing the refund period if you want to finish it.
@@merezko4339 Thanks. Love the refund period
😘💰
Notes are not cheating, having to take notes is the part were you know the game is getting good.
@@Noblemilk oh I completely agree
mate your channel is absolutely CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED! found you from the poinpy video and im hooked!! You are gonna blow up any day now!!
Thanks for liking my comment?
thank you kindly chief, here's hoping!
This is criminally under viewed. Like, someone needs to go to jail
I can't believe how much sparkie loves and hates The Witness
the daily mail will be reporting on this shocking new development first thing tomorrow
the witness is about the learning process and perspective. Learning new perspectives is what you do all the game, including the eviromental puzzles and the audio and the videos. Even the statues have secrets you only see on certain perspectives. Those perspectives can be conflitant, like religius people and atheists, scientists and artists, some even say that is meaningless to search for knowledge, but you aquire all those perspectives. And you learn more about the world by doing that. Many many many puzzles you learn how to solve it by looking from a diferent perspective, some times literaly. Is about pursue of knowledge itself
this video was so wonderful and relatable, thank you so much for making it. i feel like you've put my own feelings into such good perspective and it's relieving. i can't believe there aren't more views on the video, but i'm sure it will be cherished by those who have yet to experience the witness, or want to learn about it
holy heck a video essay about the witness
edit: whoa this video is awesome
yeahh this game is something
i didnt have the witness key art for my phone wallpaper for a while for no reason
(its slime rancher key art now)
edit2: TUNIC GGOAT
Thank you kindly, the slime rancher key art does indeed slap
@@soitssparkie yes the plortable edition specifically
Genuinely can't believe this channel hasn't blown up? Incredible essay man, I clicked on a whim and all your work is criminally underrated
Thank you so much!
I feel like The Witness is demonstrative of how desperate we are for narratives in games - even puzzle games. There's no "You win!". There's no conclusive catharsis - the only semi-satisfying "little bow on top" of the experience is The Secret of Psalm 46. And for as hard as that is to find, it doesn't really explain much. I remember being really distraught finishing The Witness right after it came out - I was a big fan of Braid, but analyzing Braid vs The Witness was like watching The Little Mermaid vs Nostalghia. It's still a game that vexes me, but I think I'll take Braid's ultimate warning to heart and not get too invested in pursuing a truth that might bring about my own destruction. Better to be all zen and just appreciate the game as a meditative experience.
Also I'm assuming you've seen Brian Moriarty's "I Saw What I Did There" talk, but to anyone that hasn't, it's very worth watching. It's a cute "passing of the torch" sort of followup to the game and its inclusion of Psalm 46 (as well as Trinity and Braid). It also humanizes Jonathan Blow way more than what you'd get from reading his Twitter (not that that's a good thing, but it helps to have *some* warm and fuzzy feelings about why he made The Witness. Like I said at the top, I crave that narrative catharsis.)
The bits with you screaming at the kids kill me man your sense of humor is peak
wow.
what a video.
i wanted a video to stick on in the back of my maths homework and from the first sentence, i got 0 work done. ive never related more in opinion to any video, person or idea. the scene at 40:45 sums up my mind exactly. a tumble dryer.
in the video when you mention view count, i thought you mustve been exaggerating, and i look and see this video has 2k views. i was expecting millions. this is unbelievably underrated. thank you for making this.
i too, hate the witness.
i too, love the witness.
This is an absolutely phenomenal video which deserves a lot more attention
@@joshuasumpter5336 thank you so much!
Thank you for what is now possibly my favorite TH-cam video, and screw you for successfully passing the curse of not being able to stop thinking about this game for all of its beauty and flaws onto me
Is this a love hate relationship?? Possibly…
perhaps. maybe even, indeed...
The Witness is my favorite game. I'm sure you understand why, even if you don't feel the same way. I love how you communicate your complicated feelings in a relatively straight-forward way. It makes me want to do something similar, even if my thoughts skew generally toward awe, even for the Spira video lol. Thank you for making this, and thanks youtube for recommending this.
I so strongly feel the same way about this game, thank you for conveying this weird middle resentfully-in-love feeling about the game so well, on a level that I really resonated with. That scream in the last quarter really sums it up so well and felt so second-hand cathartic. Bless.
I would be very inclined to watch this if there wasn't hbomberguy-style screaming and stock images every couple seconds
have you considered closing your eyes and ears during those parts
Amazing video. Absolutely loved it from beginning to end. Subbed and I send you a hug for this hard work.
What you say about the game defying definition is very true, it's like it's one giant paradox, you can never put it to sleep, even when you accept that you can't, it will always poke at your mind from time to time years after its release, like a beautiful song with some odd chords and an abrupt ending.
Anyway, I'll go enjoy the rest of your content :)
I really cannot comprehend the criticism of “your reward for solving puzzles is more puzzles.” In other games, your reward for successful platforming is more platforming! Your reward for killing enemies is more enemies! It’s a goddamn puzzle game! What were you expecting?
my best guess is some sort of resolution, like to a story potentially. the witness just throws you right back into itself after finishing it, like you're some sort of prisoner. you don't really know why you're doing it. probably just for the dopamine. this game could very much just be a website, but it presents it self as something with mystery and beauty. but then you dig into it and it feels more like a big shit post. its the weirdest thing. now a days i just kinda enjoy it like it's a piece of art. i like taking screenshots with the nvidia ansel support, or just listening to the ambience and enjoying the world as if it were a painting. it's just beautiful and that's all it should be. but again, the game has so much shit post in it. it's confusing and weird and unlike anything i've seen before. and for that reason alone, i suppose it's okay
Hi, sorry for responding so late! The points I make in the first five minutes are intentionally a bit inflamatory and unfair as I'm talking about the game through the perspective I saw it through 7 odd years ago. Obviously, yeah, a puzzle game will have lots of puzzles in it, and yeah, more gameplay is the reward if the game is fun (which it is! (mostly)). I think the problem I had (and still sort of have, to an extent) is that the game sets up a mystery and then doesn't deliver on it in any meaningful way (IMO). It didn't give me the context I felt I was owed to justify the gameplay. It gave me the expectation that they'd be more to see, and then threw a bunch of puzzles at me and wandered off to the shops (for a sandwich).
@@soitssparkie That’s a fair criticism. The story is pretty disappointing. But still, I can’t really think of any puzzle games I’ve played that have a good story, except for Portal.
this is one of my favorite videos on this entire platform. i had the EXACT same thoughts and experience as you with playing this game. using the IGN guide, going back and thinking about the game, replaying it, not being able to get it out of your head. this game is special, this game sucks, this game is one of my favorites. there is not a game so far up it's on ass like this one is. and somehow with all of that being said it's still so great and meaningful. 10/10 video, this was a gem, please keep making content
thank you so much!
i relate to this so much haha. this might genuinely be one of my most favorite videos i've seen. thank you sparkie
I still can't do 11:56 with the checkerboard Tetris shape. I get the logic that there's 12 squares total, and with the 2 blue subtractor pieces it makes for 10 squares - and there is 10 squares in the solution.
But every combination-shape puzzle requires you do not break up the shapes... Which right away brings up the question: how does a checkerboard alone get solved? Adding the 2nd shape isn't making the solution possible.
One day I'd like this one explained to me. I tried and tried but ultimately did the "incel before discovering 4chan" thing.
One of the negatives cancels the center of the t-shape, leaving this shape:
T_T
_T
The other negative cancels the bottom left square of the checkerboard shape. The remainder of the t-shape fills in the gaps of the checkerboard shape, resulting in this combined shape:
C_C
TCTC
CTC
_C
Note that the square that is canceled in the t-shape is still present in the combined shape because it is also a square in the checkerboard shape.
@@den--- Thank you for explaining that. I get it, but it still breaks the game's rules.
If you made something fit inside something else, it wouldn't work. Like you can't subtract a block from a 4-line and run another shape through the opening.
That's effectively what is going on with the checkerboard AND the T shape.
I find there's other exceptions to rules, but they're logically introduced (like matching a star with a square of same color, instead of another star.)
This one is a stand out exception to the rules, imo.
I think Jonathan Blow colectively owes us several hours of therapy sessions after mentally abusing us with this game.
Such a good video, perfectly describing what I felt playing the game. Hope this gets picked up by the almighty algorithm
So: I ended up here by accident.
TH-cam recommended me another video about The Witness. But I'm done with The Witness. I did my bit for Queen and Country 8 years ago. But someone says the "hate it and love it"? OKAY. FINE. I'll watch a couple of minutes and see how it goes. Probably someone who has not seen The Unbearable Video.
This comment has structure and I've sort of spoiled the punchline, so bugger it. I watched all of this video: thank you, it was hilarous and also a shock to see my younger face suddenly leer out at me in the middle of it. I still harbour a few mixed feelings about the game - some of which I vented in the Secret Video (TM). But the delivery of the audio logs has always been... meh.
Otherwise, have a lovely day.
P.S. I skipped the Tunic bit. On my bucket list...
@@Electrondance bloody hell, never expected to see you here! Thank you for making the wonderful now, really did help me appreciate some parts of the game I struggled to (and still struggle too!). And thank you for the lovely comment!
@@soitssparkie life is a struggle just like the game, see it all makes perfect sense. it's basically dark souls but the bell gargoyles are just jonathan blow. sorry, this does not make sense. i'd better delete these lines before i hit reply by accid
i hate sparkie 😡 i love sparkie ❤️
Oh shit this is actually an incredible video. Feels like I'm watching the sequel to hbomberguy's Braid video
Great video. I appreciate how much work you've put into it. Jackson Wagner's video series on The Witness is worth a look. It gets deep.
Electron Dance did the best video essay on the internet, and it happened to be on this game.
29:23 this is applicable to Yiik: a postmodern rpg (I.V update coming soon!) as well. i damn near say that hellkrai’s videos on the game are a prerequisite before even watching a cutscene compilation because the game made it so hard to even notice the postmodern elements at all, even when it’s in the damn title!
34:52 Look! another environment puzzle in Tunik!
Sucks this stuff gets low viewership. It’s good.
43:28 there is photo mode, it supports nvidia ansel
oh shit, I never knew about that, that's awesome
What this only has 3k views?! The algorithmn has served this to me though! Great video - this is >250k views quality for sure!
I've tried so much to look further into this game - replaying it, watching video essays on it, reading texts, and generally just thinking about it practically once a day at this point. And yet it doesn't fully make sense. Sure, a lot of the video essays sound logical - The Unbearable Now by ElectronDance. the literary analysis by The Gemsbok. but they don't feel like they *explain* what The Witness is, why it makes me feel how I do. And honestly.. that feels by intention. To me, the 'point' of this game is to make you think for yourself. Sure, you can use guides, but do you get any meaning out of that? do you ever get anything out of taking a shortcut?
You get the same effect from actually trying to solve some puzzles; you'll be stuck on a puzzle for half an hour, only to realize you were looking at the entire wrong thing.
When trying to analyze what the more sophisticated seeming parts of the game mean, it seems to refute itself constantly, almost telling you off for even trying to understand it. Every essayist I've watched both make sense, and sound nonsense once you listen to another one. it just makes you go in a loop over and over without learning anything until you settle on your own conclusion. Is that that it's a commentary on the quiet moments and taking your time? is the entire point to just fuck with the player and make them waste their time? is the point to add bullshit to make it hard to definitively decide when you think of the game? is it a deeper art piece that is incomprehensible to anyone but it's creator?
To me, it's about finding what you want to think of the game. any answer you come to, they're all correct. because in the end, everything is about what you believe, and not what was intended to be believed.
The standard "game" part of The Witness is phenomenal and I will forever love it for it's creativity, it's art, and how it made me feel. And I've learnt to appreciate the deeper meaning just for being there, even if I don't understand it. and I will not understand it. and I shouldn't want to understand it.
This video is just perfect.
Thanks chief 😁
What a great video.
I think it's particularly... funny? I'm gonna go with funny, that in in the midst of all this there's specific praise for The Secret of Psalm 46, because the whole thrust of that is that we are defined by an instinctive Need To Solve It, it's why most of this game feels so good, including, especially, the realization that there are bigger layers to it, wider scopes of puzzle, that even when everything is done, there's still _more_ there, but that at the same time, this instinct can go horribly wrong, leading us to spiral into nonsense in an attempt to solve puzzles that aren't even there. My own interpretation of the actual ending to the actual plot of The Witness is that the whole experiment they discussed did work, in that it produced the intended fully vivid sensory dive experience, but also that it was a complete failure, because instead of leading the subject to any kind of ultimate truth it just turned him into an introspection machine who tries to find puzzles everywhere. They tried to capture, like, enlightenment, or something, in a video game, and _sell_ it to people, and their attempt to bottle it turned it into poison, because they missed the common theme of all the science and philosophy they literally cite inside the simulation; that the search has value in and of itself, but never by reference to the answer arrived at, that the answer can never be valuable, even if it's really true. So too does anyone attempting to _definitively_ state the ultimate meaning in The Witness eventually spiral into bunk, even while many excellent interpretations exist, even if it has an _intended_ meaning. It really is just about looking at things, and yet, and yet, the greatest things to just look at are the ones that manage to wedge themselves so deep in our mind that we are unable to stop remembering them, unable to dissuade ourselves of the notion that [there's still more to discover here], if we just take another look... This is how you end up making long TH-cam retrospectives in an attempt to finally stop thinking about something, only to thereby inevitably attract comments attempting to provide more to think about. Sorry about that, by the way.
(I think the six windmill videos in particular are each centered around one of the ways in which any attempt to encapsulate ultimate truth is on a conceptual level doomed to failure)
There's all kinds of meaning in all kinds of stuff but kind of by definition you can't really _have_ a thing whose meaning is the meaning in stuff, because the meaning in stuff can't be a _thing_. It's just us, finding meaning. In stuff. How do you even make anything of that other than a joke. It's the funniest goddamn thing I ever heard.
1:40 I'm jumping to conclusions based on this intro so sorry if you make it clear you changed your mind later in the video or something, but any time I see videos on this game start like this I feel bad, cause unlike what you seem to imply
the game agrees with you here. It *is* just a copout ending, it *is* just another version of the Tetris effect. The experiment the in lore pretentious VR experience memory eraser fake dev team did by making the island, *failed*. The point the game is trying to say is, something like Hey, solving these puzzles is fun and all and we hope you enjoy it, and get better at observing the world around you, but you won't find real enlightenment looking at a bunch of line puzzles on a screen. Wake up, go observe the real world.
yeah this is pretty much the journey ive been going on this past week while ive been playing the witness and beating the challenge
How has this video not been seen more :(
The Witness and Tunic are both my favorite games, but Tunic is more of a casual game with hard puzzles, and The Witness is a meditative experience with the final boss of puzzle games. It took me 5 years to try The Witness again, after I refunded it on the first try. It took me another 2 years and (only) 70 hours of playtime to properly explore and finish the game.
I fail to see the problem when the "story bits" are all just optional and not integral to the meat of the game, which is brilliant.
@@henri3170 they're still part of the game though... If I order a salad at a restaurant, they dish it up, it's divine, but it's got some rotten tomatoes in it, I'm gonna complain about the tomatoes! Just because I can pick them out doesn't mean I can't complain about them being shit.
@@soitssparkieit's more like going to an all you can eat and deciding whether or not you wanna partake in the eating of the salad/story or not.
Fair enough if you don't like it, I'm a JoBlo hater, The Witness has some shit going for it but how much of that is him or the people he employs? People put a lot of weight on his design as if he is still a solo Dev.
But I think story being optional, like in The Witness or Dark Souls is kinda like having a salad bar at an all you can eat. Whether or not that salad is good or shit doesn't matter, cause you can choose whether or not you even eat it in the first place.
*The time challenge is the game. Everything else (which can be beaten by watching walkthroughs) is the tutorial.*
4:31 - you were _fifteen_ when this game came out god _damn_. I was 31 years 5 months 9 days old (no I don't have that memorized I wolfram-alpha'd it). Loved this game and still do; it's my favorite video game of all time.
31:05 - science vs art _is_ explored -- or, at least, represented mechanically. As is how they intersect. You're right that The Witness is extremely unstructured. It presents a bunch of ideas in different domains using different mediums at different levels of abstraction, and vaguely gestures at their relation. But _discovering_ those relations _for yourself_ is (to me!) what the game is "about", if anything.
31:30 - It is always interesting to me to hear something like "it feels like [the game] is constantly trying to prove ..." about this game, when to me it is abundantly clear the game isn't trying to prove anything at all about itself. It's like, people hear an "isn't that interesting" spoken in a haughty tone coming directly from Jon Blow's mouth after the umpteenth audio log or video or whatever, when... it's not actually there. The audio/video just plays, and that's it. That's all that happens. What is making you add this on?
Hbomb vibes with this video.
Love this video. Absolutely unhinged. SUBBED!
Most of what is special about the game happens inside your head. If you look up a walk-through, the part that is special about the game happened in someone else's head.
The Witness is a special game. I agree, the Witness is visually pleasing af. It also gave me so many heureka! moments.
The environment puzzles blew my f-ing mind. Beating the timed challenge was incredibly satisfying. One added note: The music was stressing me out, the second I muted it I beat the challenge 2nd try. I thought outside the box.
Yes, on my first playthrough, after 2/3 I gave in and I used some puzzle solutions to see the ending. And I regret that. But I redeemed myself, because I learnt to beat the timed challenge. It took me a year and serveral replays and watching others play the game, but I did it. And now, it is one of my favourite games of all time. It is one of the games, I install every few years and do a full playthrough of. I even challenge myself. How fast can I beat it, without learning all solutions. Last time I checked, it was something along 6 hours.
I never knew what «videogames are art» really meant, until I played the Last Of Us Part 2. Art is thought-provoking. It doesn’t have to be good, just thought provoking. Good art makes you think about yourself and the world around you.
The things you describe the witness with: I want to love it unconditionally, with out «but....», but I can’t. This is how I feel about The Last Of Us Part 2. I don’t have this problem with The Witness.
I do love The Witness and I don’t care about some parts, that feel irrelevant in my personal opinion.
Look, you made this 50 minute video. And now I am envious, because you did, what I have wanted to do for years now. But I am fine with it - the game being imperfect and the fact that, I have not made a The Witness video. Thanks for 50 minutes of The Witness content.
The lack of coherent story is what bothers me the most. I was solving puzzles for seven hours, until I finally found a tape recorder/player. I remember thinking: "Okay now we'll have some story!" and then it was just an audio about how the international space station is cool. Then I've found a projection room and the screen from a special room I found, when a video started playing I thought: "Now we'll get some story!" But it was just a woman with the most annoyingly calm voice in the world talking some coach crap about "stop wanting". By that time, the puzzles were already pretty hard, I did like you and started looking for answers, but thought to myself: "If I keep looking at youtube/ign there will be no meaning to this game." and quit.
I lucked out and got the Feynman and Burke videos first. "Hey, I love these guys!"
But before that when I found my first recorder it was the one on the guitar amp in the castle, "When people ask me about the meaning of you in my work I laugh" - I thought "there's going to be a really deep story here..."
Boy was I wrong.
Writing on a piece of paper to solve puzzles is not cheating. It is part of the game. The game is one step away from just saying use a paper at the beginning of the game.
@@mesaplayer9636 oh I absolutely agree, I just wanted to clarify that in the video before anyone gave me shit for it
@@soitssparkie if you haven't played lock on the game called "dreams" it's very reminiscent of the witness but sort of better. Also that's a shame the people get mad at others for writing things down. Like I said the game all but says write things down
Thankyou daddy ̶c̶a̶d̶d̶y̶ - Sparkie
Your criticisms of The Witness' story (well, really themes) reminds me of similar criticisms of Dark Souls or Elden Ring having "no story"--or, at the very least, an excessively obscured and unreadable story. I think it's a mistake to hold games, or art in general, accountable for the narrative you make of them.
The Witness, like a lot of art, is only really about projection. It intentionally makes space for interpretation in order to allow the player to reflect on its subject matters, and challenge their beliefs. Some art is about the author telling you explicitly what to think, and some art is about giving you a bunch of things to think about--and The Witness, if anything, certainly falls into the later, rather than the former.
Part of the Witness' biggest twist is realizing that you're playing a video game, and jumping out of that experience--literally, within the game, applying the game-ified knowledge of puzzle solving into your surrounding environment. The thesis at the end isn't a definitive "this is what The Witness is about", but rather an invitation to think about the world in the same way that you thought about the puzzles.
I think you fail in treating games as art when you segment the encompassing experience from your analysis of its value as a narrative.
From Software stories are similarly judged, in similar ways; surface observation of stories in a vacuum often misjudges their actual ability to convey meaning, and reduces their expression to a minority of the overarching experience.
The practice of reduction or abstraction for analysis is, in my opinion, mostly just a cheap method employed by TH-camrs to force objective analysis into a primarily subjective medium. We shouldn't reduce art, or single out any specific aspects.
Let's take a specific example; the videos in The Witness are interesting because they're in The Witness, and by being in The Witness, they are a part of the wider whole that can be appreciated in a vastly different context. By forcing you to watch them during certain puzzles, the game is forcing you to contend with your own thoughts, and meditate on your understanding of the game thus far. Their inclusion, like everything else, literally demands observation, but there's also a touch of irony--are these interesting thoughts, or puzzles? By game-ifying the game's non-screen puzzles, don't they just become yet another example of people not "seeing with their eyes"? I think there's a bit of an irony that the game teaches you to pay attention to the logic in your environment, challenge said environment's authenticity, only to get lost in the sauce and tune observable fact out of reality due to the compelled nature of video games as objective-based. So what about the "pointless" perspective tricks in the environment? Are those truly pointless then, if your perspective of something in-game having "a point" is only measured by what the game suggests is important. Are the puzzles themselves not equally pointless, if they provide no further benefit beyond themselves?
What does that all mean? Fucking nothing--it doesn't have to, just like how the puzzles don't have to reward you either.
Paintings aren't bibles--they aren't here to force your answer, or even demand you have an answer. Paintings ask you to sit, and observe, and get whatever you want to put into them.
For some people, The Witness is a meditation on perception, for others it's the masturbatory ramblings of a madman who got lost in his own sauce, for me it's about projection. None of these are truly accidental--I mean, I don't think Jonathan Blow likes you calling him pretentious, but I certainly don't think his goal was to force you to agree with him on anything, or see things "from his perspective." What matters is that the game compels your own interpretation, and it does that for damn near everybody who interacts with it.
I think your experience with The Witness is just like that; an experience with the game so compelling that it's worthy of a pretty well made video. I don't think it's a mistake of the game that you're frustrated with the game, or embarrassed by its overtly artsy presentation--rather, that's just another aspect of extracting meaning from the game, and one you clearly gained a lot of value from. If The Witness were bad at exploring its themes of observation and extracting meaning, then you wouldn't be observing it, or extracting meaning from so much of it. If The Witness is bad for being a meditation, rather than an explanation, of its themes, then your video would also be bad for the exact same reason--a non-committal admission that you really don't have a strict thesis, or something definitive to say about the game.
And that's cool--I hope you liked thinking about the game, and I hope you keep thinking about it in the future.
First of all, THANK YOU for being nice! I was really worried making this video last year that I would get flooded with derogatory essays in the comments, so to see this in my notifications and then read it and it NOT be an extended look at the all the ways I am a imbecile was very refreshing! Very rare to have civil comments from people who disagree with me! It's nice! Thank you!
Second of all, I disagree that games, or art in general, can't be criticized as long as I get a strong emotional response from them. I got strong emotional responses from Twelve Minutes, or Fallout 76, but I also think those games are terrible. Not objectively (I agree with you that objectivity in media criticism is stupid, it's all just opinions at the end of the day) but subjectively, I think they're awful. I would rather a game be terrible than uninteresting or bland, because at least I'm getting something out of it, but I would still rather it be good, y'know. I don't think art should get a free pass at not really saying anything (in my opinion), just because all the ways I can have fun picking apart the ways it fails to say something count as it saying something. I think vagueness in storytelling can work: Elden Ring's mostly just vibes but they're compelling vibes. I come away from it with positive thoughts and feelings about that world, with stuff to think about. The Witness gave me loads of stuff to think about, but I found myself bashing my head against a wall trying to extract any sort of meaning that resonated with me. It's that puddle analogy everyone uses with Bethesda games, "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle". I don't really get anything from thinking about what The Witness is saying, it's just noise to me. But there is lots to think about! Does me thinking about it anyway make it successful as art, maybe, probably, I dunno, I'm not a scientist. But I don't think it's successful in the ways I want it to be.
Hopefully some of that made sense! I don't have a degree in media analysis or anything, I'm just a dipshit with lots of thoughts on things. Is Jonathon Blow lost in the sauce, or am I lost in the sauce? You decide!
@@soitssparkie Thanks for the reply! I can see you enjoy doing this a lot, and I hope you keep up with it.
I don't think art can't be criticized as long as it gets a strong emotional response, I just think there's a palpable difference between The Witness and something like 12 Minutes; because 12 Minutes *is* a conventional story, with themes and a plot. Nobody should, or would describe 12 Minutes as an art piece, because it isn't the convention it fits itself into, and so your expectations of it having a solid thesis to back up its events are far higher. Conventional media has conventional requirements, whereas unconventional media doesn't.
I guess Elden Ring was a bad direct comparison, simply because Elden Ring *does* have a conventional plot. I was more comparing how the context of genre and convention (story-centric RPGs, for Elden Ring) can often obscure the artistic goals of games. Elden Ring "not having a plot" is pretty overtly incorrect, considering all of the text dedicated to that plot, and dialogue, and visuals, but it's said only because it lacks a *conventional* plot, and as such, fails to have any plot at all--to some.
Quality, or something being good, is only really a matter of context, and comparison; The Witness only fails at achieving a conventional result if you're seeking a conventional result from it--which are the flaws inherrent to Fallout 76, or 12 Minutes. That they ultimately use the language of other trope media, and fail to successfully answer to those expectations.
I'd honestly only really argue that The Witness' main flaw is the execution of the final cutscene--not its inclusion. I like the idea of the game escaping the conventional medium as a conclusion, but Jonathan Blow just isn't really a filmmaker, and he could've like... payed someone else to make something more interesting filmed, in-my-opinion. It's not bad, and I find the idea of it compelling, but it's just kind of unintentionally awkward in a way that pulls back rather than immersing the player--which is a shame. It's the artistic equivalent of accidentally leaving a splotch of blue on your all-white canvas art installation. It's not necessarily "incorrect", but it is ultimately an amateur distraction from a more interesting idea.
If I were to change it, I'd replace it with an interview with Jonathan Blow; describing his reasons for making the game--like a tag in a modern art gallery. A signature to close off the experience, rather than an abrupt shift to literalism--with all the implied VR shit and the piss bottle. Pull back the curtain, face the audience, and say "You're playing a video game I made, and I want you to dwell on that a bit."
Less 2001: A Space Odyssey, and more End of Evangelion.
17:35 Is the the fresh prince?
@@magmastered it may in fact be
been a while since i finished the game, but don't you need to complete the music box challenge (I consider this the end game boss) to be able to get the code to unlock the final ending?
@@Sephsplaces I think the code you get unlocks the last video (The Secret of Psalm 46). Obviously I just looked that up (because I am fraud)!
@@soitssparkie but consistent
Absolute fucking cinema right there
I can’t wait for you to figure out what Rupert Spira is talking about, it’s like the environmental puzzle on steroids. I won’t spoil it though ;)
Amazing video
I know this wouldn’t mean much but I would care… Mr POINPY man
Something that's always erked me is that the game has such a focus on buddhism and hinduism, but is never presented by anyone from Asia. It's only white people. Art gurus filtering it through a western lens. It feels disingenuous.
crazy that you actually printed that out at 24:34
6:53
I personally genuinely enjoyed the films..Or however you call them
best one yet
So strange that you took all your interpretations as straight up correct and didn't consider that you might have misunderstood the game. It seems that all other interpretations are pretentious by default to you. That's really sad, because I think you missed something there.
@@Madoc_EU There's literally a section in this where I talk about other people's interpretations that I like lol.
@@soitssparkie But you also simply state as a fact that the ending is meant as a joke, and you find that terrible. There are other ways how you can see it that leave a less terrible image. There are parts of the game that you didn’t find a meaningful relation to, like most of the cinema films or the secret ending. And instead of acknowledging that there could be perspectives of those that are more meaningful, you seem to judge all that see more depth in the game than you do as pretentious.
where do I do that? There's the bit at 40:00 where I make fun of certain fans that view their opinion as better than everyone else's, but I can't remember anywhere else where I paint someone else's opinion as pretentious? A big theme of the video is my frustration at wanting to appreciate the game as much as others do. I have nothing but envy for the people who actually get something out of the videos or the secret ending. I think Blow is pretentious, but I don't think anyone that gets something out of his ideas is (unless they're a twat about it)
@@soitssparkie I think it's kinda fun to call him pretentious. However, does he really pretend?
There is a lot he put into the game that has nothing to do with solving the puzzles of the game itself. I mean, you know that, as you have also commented on the game confronting the player with different ways of acquiring knowledge. In a way, the larger puzzle is life itself.
JoBlo is very careful in interviews, and despite his talking a lot about other, more mundane topics, he won't talk very much about contemplative topics. But he sometimes did a bit, and he definitely is on some sort of "path" if you will, he has had some insights. Instead of talking about it directly and intellectually, he created a work of art about this.
In The Unbearable Now, which you mention as well if I remember correctly, there are also references to insight traditions like buddhism and Advaita Vedanta. Those have a little comeback nowadays, and some of their practices and ideas have a comeback in the contemporary science of psychology, which uses realtime brain scanners to verify some of their claims, and integrates the verifiable portions of such teachings into methods that can be applied in psychology and medicine. One of the early successes was the MBSR program.
This creates a weird space now. There is an unorganized, decentralized movement of people who find to _something like_ a spirituality, but it is free from any supernatural belief or woo and completely compatible with a materialistic worldview. It's basically the subjective side to the objective science of psychology, and stands to it in the same relation as personal fitness and exercising stands to the science of medicine or physiotherapy.
You might notice that this comment of mine has been going on for quite a while already. And there would be at least a whole book to write if I were to write it all down with at least a modest amount of accuracy and completeness. And even then, just hearing or reading the words wouldn't really help anyone.
The other way of communicating this is without words. "Show, don't tell." Which is basically a form of art, in the same way as you could regard a Zen koan as art rather than intellectual communication.
There aren't many artists doing stuff like that. Maybe the poems of David Whyte could be regarded in this context. Tomas Peeters with his "Zero Distance" observatories for sure. And The Witness definitely falls into this category too.
However, it's so damn difficult to convey this. Because if you start talking about it, there is the enormous danger that people will think that you're talking about woo, basically like one of those quacks like Deepak Chopra.
Maybe it truly is the better approach to NOT talk about this, but only make art about it that is intended to speak for itself in a wordless way. If you do that, many people who observe this art will come out saying that it's all just intentionally obscure, and it's all just pretend and therefore pretentious. Some will see the depth in it, some won't.
Is what Rupert Spira and Gangaji say truly just nonsense? Are they effectively in the same category as a Deepak Chopra or a Russel Brand?
There would be a lot to say about this, a lot more than I can put into this comment. And I know that this is not just a game of pretend.
I agree, the puzzles are good the mystery is good until the dramatic reveal. Then the mystery, and by extension the puzzles used to try and unravel the mystery (shoutout ign for the mountain puzzles) feel like dogshit.
Also the jungle sucks from a game design perspective in 2 ways IMO. Now, this is a 2015 game, but still subtitles and captions were in Portal and Minecraft, so they could/should have at least had an option for those. Also they block off a pathway you've likely used the whole area near the end, so if you haven't done the monastery enough to have that shortcut, haha walk allllllll the way around dumbass and sip that piss bottle
dude you misunderstood the audio logs, their point is to open the lily pads on the lake, who really cares what they do be saying?
Did you ever think that Jonathan Blow was trying to make a point with the ending? You don’t have to obsessively finish all of the puzzles to achieve an ending. That’s your choice. Just be with the puzzles, enjoy the atmosphere and take only the parts you enjoy. Nobody forces anyone to watch those videos and you don’t even need to watch them all to finish the game. We are so obsessed with getting to the end that we never take stock of the present. One of the videos with the guy and the candle sort of illustrates that point. At least to me.
So I interpret the Tetris Effect ending as us getting made fun of showing you what happens when you can’t stop because you must finish the game. It wasn’t the end that was miraculous. It was the journey (cliche I know but you even said yourself you enjoyed wandering the world)
You also keep going back to the game and I assume you start over each time. Isn’t that the same reward you get when you enter the elevator?
first
also awesome video, I've never played this game, but I've watched someone else play The Looker a few years back and I think even if I plan to never play The Witness still, it's great that it exists because then The Looker exists and also this great review that makes me wonder whether I should reevaluate my plan to never play it that I've made by watching this review.... wasn't there The Pedestrian? no that's something else
man, to think I found you from Vlare
Looks like a brilliant game. SO glad I didn't play it.