Cultish: Is Seventh Day Adventism a Cult? Pt. 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Join us as we continue our conversation with Colleen Tinker and Nikki Stevenson Co-Hosts of the Former Adventist podcast on whether or not Seventh-Day Adventism is a cult.
This episode goes into detail about the great struggle that Walter Martin author of "Kingdom of the Cults" had when trying to pin down certain doctrines that the SDA believed.
From the book "Questions on Doctrine" that was published by SDA, to other proponents of SDA Doctrine stating that the "Questions of Doctrine" were misleading at best, this episode brings to light the great controversy of our day which is whether or not Seventh-Day Adventism is a cult.
Be sure to like, share, and comment on this video.
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The Adventist teach that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath so “all mankind” is obligated to follow their example! However, there is NO example.
Unlike the Adventist teaching, no one in scripture teaches to follow Adam and Eve in their Sabbath keeping.
Moses didn’t!
Christ didn’t!
The prophets didn’t! and
neither did the Apostles!
And, the reason is, there is NO example.
If you are going to do such a shameful video as this, why not interview Judas about why he left Christianity next time?
@@statutesofthelord Judas was a Sabbath keeper that betrayed Christ with a kiss.
@Bill Class are you stupid? God sanctified the sabbath and Adam and Eve kept it holy. Everyone did. Even the Pharisees. Hence they said Jesus broke the sabbath in healing the sick and wanted to kill him. Some of you say Jesus broke the sabbath. No he did not. Only according to them. Picking corn to eat isn't farming nor is healing someone. The apostles went to the synagogue after the ascension as the were accustomed... Read Matthew 27. It tells you when the sabbath was. You can research and see when the day was transferred from Saturday to Sunday and it was under Constantine/ the council of Nicea.
Wikipedia searches and others does tell you this. The roman church said Sunday is their mark and if you want to be Christian you should keep sabbath/ be a 7th day Adventists. I also learned some of the this in Latin lessons 30 years ago about how Rome mixed paganism with Christianity. That why you can pray to dear saints - who are dead- which is necromancy. Also there are many denominations that keep sabbath holy and groups him Ethiopia to the lemba people in southern Africa... so make up your lies and believe them so you can feel comfortable with the masses going through the wide gate
@@nicolagrant5450 The Adventist teach that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath so “all mankind” is obligated to follow their example! However, there is NO example.
Unlike the Adventist teaching, no one in scripture teaches to follow Adam and Eve in their Sabbath keeping.
Moses didn’t!
Christ didn’t!
The prophets didn’t! and
neither did the Apostles!
And, the reason is, there is NO example.
1. Nowhere in scripture does it teach that Adam and Eve Shared in "God's Rest" at Creation, neither is anyone told to follow their example. unlike the Adventists teaching, no one in scripture teaches to follow Adam and Eve in their Sabbath keeping. GENESIS 2 ADAM, EVE AND THE SABBATH th-cam.com/video/V-IHxid1uCQ/w-d-xo.html
Theology aside...as an adventist who is questioning all I can say is that I 1,000% relate to what these women are saying. That in and of itself is proof they are on to something, and SDA puts a veil over the real gospel! I have never been moved by a sermon. Never felt the church really cared about whether i attended or not. Never understood the bible, and honestly felt God was scary. I am excited to leave SDAism....just need a plan.
It is well known by all the scholars and Adventists too, that Christ was speaking of the Sabbath keepers, who murdered their own prophets.
Indeed, Just as in John 5:16-18 we find them trying to *murder* Christ over the Sabbath and *"sought all the more to persecute Christ"*
Christ speaking to the Sabbath keepers again Christ speaking to the Sabbath keepers in Mt. 23:34 SAYS THE FOLLOWING" Mt. 23 :34 Wherefore, behold, *I send unto YOU prophets, and wise men* , and scribes: and *some of them YOU shall kill and crucify; and. some of them shall YOU scourge in *your* synagogues, and *persecute them from city to city* : (Rev. 17vs 6)
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, *thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee* .
Rev. 18 speaks of the martyrdom the *Apostles and Prophets* and you say there was no Catholic Church then. *So, who murdered the Apostles and the Prophets?* Guess who? The Sabbath keepers! Page after page of Sabbath keepers persecuting and murdering Christ, the Apostles, and the Prophets, exactly as Christ prophesied in Matthew 23:34-35.
Revelation 18:20-24
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and *ye holy apostles and prophets;* for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in *her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.*
@@chucksmith4624
Jesus was talking to all of us.
Read Luke 13v3 and verse 5 and also John 14v15.
@@MountCarmel007 No, he was not. He was talking to the devout Sabbath keepers in Mt. 23. Want more proof? *Here’s what the Sabbath keepers have covered up:*
There are many wonderful examples in the Bible where the Sabbath keepers, all believed they were "keeping the commandments of God" by keeping the Sabbath day. Here's just a few of them and what Christ and the Apostles have to say to and about them.
*Acts 2:22-23* (KJV) Peter says that the Sabbath keepers by "wicked hands took, crucified and murdered Christ.
*John 8:48-49* (KJV) The Sabbath keepers accuse Christ of being demon possessed.
Acts 7: St. Stephen calls the Sabbath keepers 'stiffnecked and uncircumcised of heart and ears, for resisting the Holy Spirit.
Acts 7 St. Stephen asks the Sabbath keepers *Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?*
Acts 7 St. Stephen accuses the Sabbath keepers: *And they have *slain them who foretold of the coming of the Just One; of whom you have been now the *betrayers and murderers:*
Acts 7 St. Stephen accuses the Sabbath keepers" Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and *have not kept it.”* !!!!
Acts 7 the Sabbath keeper’s *gnashed their teeth* biting St. Stephen like a rabid wolf.
Acts 7 The Sabbath keeper’s stone St. Stephen to death with rocks.
1Thes 4:14 Paul says, “the Sabbath keepers MURDERED BOTH CHRIST AND THEIR OWN PROPHETS!
1Thes 4:14 Paul says, “the Sabbath keepers *“persecuted US”* (THE APOSTOLIC CHURCH)
1Thes 4:14 Paul says, “the Sabbath keepers don’t please God
1Thes 4:14 Paul says, “the Sabbath keepers are “Contrary to all men” .
*Mt. **23:34* Christ says the Sabbath keepers send them , “Prophets, Wise men and Scribes” but the Sabbath keeps killed, crucified, scourged in their synagogues and persecuted them from city to city”
Matthew 23:13-15 (KJV)
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers *Mt. **23:13* But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! *for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers *Mt. **23:14* Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! *for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers *Mt. **23:15* Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! *for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers: *Mt. **23:27* Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,* hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers *Mt. **23:28* *"Even ye al outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.*"
Christ says about the Sabbath keepers Mt. 23:29 *"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers Mt. 23: 31 *Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which KILLED the prophets.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers Mt. 23: 32 *Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers Mt. 23: 33 *Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?*
Christ says TO Sabbath keepers Mt. 23: 35 *..upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias n of Barachias whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.*
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers Mt. 23 :35 That upon YOU may come *ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD SHED UPON THE EARTH* ,from the BLOOD OF RIGHTEOUS ABEL unto the blood of Zacharias n of Barachias
CHRIST SAYS UNTO THE SABBATH KEEPERS Mt. 23: 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, *thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee* . .[COMPARE WITH* Rev. 18:24* And in her was found *the blood of prophets, and of saints* , and *of all that were slain upon the earth.* NOW NOTICE *Rev. 18:20* Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye *holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged YOU on HER .*
The Apostle Paul says to the Sabbath keepers: 2Cor. 3:15 But even unto this day, *when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.*
John 5 vs 18 *The Sabbath Keepers seek to KILL Christ over the Sabbath*. BECAUSE CHRIST SAID HE WORKS EVERY SABBATH DAY!
Christ says to the Sabbath keepers Mark 9:34 *O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh* .
John 5:16: The Sabbath Keepers “ *PERSECUTE Jesus and taught to slay him OVER THE SABBATH* ! John 8 vs 52 *THE SABBATH KEEPERS SAYS CHIRST HAS A DEVIL* !!
John 9 vs 22 *THE SABBATH KEEPERS AGREE THAT IF ANY MAN CONFESSES CHRIST HE SHOULD BE PUT OUT THE SYNAGOGUE*.
[COMPARE WITH Rev. 18:24 And in her was found *the blood of prophets, and of saints* , and of all that were slain upon the earth.]
ACTS 12 vs 12 *THE SABBATH KEEPERS KILL JAMES THE BROTHER OF JOHN WITH A SWORD AND THEN TRY TO KILL PETER TOO* .
[COMPARE WITH Rev. 18:24 And in her was found *the blood of prophets, and of saints* , and of all that were slain upon the earth. And Rev. 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye *holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.* Revelation]
Acts 3:13-15 (KJV)
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 *But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto YOU (ALL) ;*
15 And *murdered the Prince of life* , whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 5:30-33 (KJV)
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, *whom YOU slew and hanged on a tree.*
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and *took counsel to slay them.*
Acts 6:10-14 (KJV)
10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And *they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes,* and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
13 And *set up false witnesses*, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
Thus it is written as spoken by the mouth of the Holy Spirit!!!
Acts 7:51-54 (KJV)
51 St. Stephen then says to the Sabbath keepers: "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, *ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.*
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; *of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers*
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. ( *of course then the Sabbath Keepers did the following!!!* )
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and *they gnashed on him with their teeth.*
ACTS 13 vs 45 *THE SABBATH KEEPERS ARE FILLED WITH ENVY* !
ACTS 13:45 THE SABBATH KEEPERS *CONTRADICT THE APOSTLE PAUL AND BLASPHEME* ”!
ACTS 13 vs 50 *Jews up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised PERSECUTION against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts* .
ACTS 17 vs 5 * Jews moved with envy took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jan*
ACTS 23 vs 12 *Sabbath Keepers banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would NEITHER TO EAT OR DRINK UNTIL THE KILLED THE APOSTLE PAUL* !!!
ACTS 23 vs 21 *SABBATH KEEPERS 40 OF THEM LIE IN WAIT TO MURDER THE APOSTLE PAUL* .
ACTS 28 vs 27 *THE SABBATH KEEPERS ARE SCOLDED BY THE APOSTLE PAUL* “27 *For their heart of this people is waxed gross,
ACTS 28 vs 27 The Sabbath keepers “ears are dull of hearing,” and
ACTS 28 vs 27 The Sabbath keepers “eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes”, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them*
2COR. 11 versesv24-25 *PAUL SAYS 5 Times HE WAS BEATEN WITH 39 STRIPES FROM THE SABBATH KEEPERS*
*AND 3 TIMES THE SABBATH KEEPERS BEAT HIM WITH RODS*
*AND 3 TIMES
HE WAS STONED BY THE SABBATH KEEPERS* .
ACTS 15 vs 24 *THE SABBATH KEEPERS ARE GUILTY OF SUBVERTING THE ULS OF THE CHURCH MEMBERS AND PREACHING THE GENTILES MUST KEEP THE LAW*
Romans 10:21 PAUL SAYS of the Sabbath keepers" He (GOD) saith, *All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.*
ACTS 21 vs 20 THE SABBATH KEEPERS “ *DREW PAUL OUT OF TEMPLE AND WENT ABOUT TO KILL HIM*
Well said Allison! 👍
The doctrines in Adventism pit it against the rest of Christianity whom they claim are "apostate", "Babylon", "daughters of the whore", and "nominal Christians." Additionally SDAs are becoming more and more disillusioned with notion of the never-coming Sunday law (which has always been "right around the corner" for the last 170+ years!). Check this attrition rare from the April 2019 edition of Ministry Magazine:
*"The Seventh-day Adventist Church is losing members at an alarming rate. Even though the evangelism in our churches is winning people, we lose about 49 of every 100 baptized. This hemorrhaging of our members cannot continue. It is expected to get worse, especially in countries where soul winning is difficult; and if it continues, entire conferences maybe closed for lack of members"* .
(Think about that for a moment. That is essentially 50% of people leaving!!)
Well wrote the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians in his day. It's so fitting for a warning concerning the Judaizing ministers of the Adventists to this very day.
2Cor. 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, *as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.*
4 For if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."* …
15 Therefore it is no great thing if *his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.*
16 I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.
17 That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
19 *For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man EXALT himself, if a man SMITE you on the face.*
*TO ALL WHO READ THIS: Please understand, these people have never kept the 10 commandments. And, Neither do they keep the Sabbath. It's never been about keeping the 10 commandments, it's about "Drawing away followers after themselves", Condemned throughout the New Testament.
I have heard the gospel preached clearly by Walter Veith
I never quite understand how someone can say… “Yes, my Church might believe that, but I do not”…. When it comes to some of the core doctrines. If you are going to an SDA Church… and you realize that they have many core doctrines off, amd you don’t subscribe to them… why are you still a member and going to that Church?!?
A lot of these comments say things like “Yes, I realize SDA lifts up Ellen G White’s writings along side scripture… but I do not and I am SDA” or
“Yes, I know The SDA stance is ….Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature. Christ took our nature and it's deteriorating condition. I know This is false. Christ had a sinless human nature. Christ took our sin punishment, not our sin nature.”…
or
Many other things. If you realize these teachings are false… why do you stay in SDA???
“Why do they stay…” - The answer is very simple. To leave means abandoning a way of life and stressing many family / friend relationships. That’s not easy.
@@tkambler What more important Jesus or family and friends. Its a easy decision, its has to be Christ.
This video explains why I am an Adventist .
th-cam.com/video/eO55c2csq6s/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
We believe in scripture from the bible. Beautiful doctrines of Daniel and Revelation. In other words truth.
Because it’s NOT a cult. You can be a member and have a different theological perspective. We know the Jesuits have infiltrated the Protestant churches and we are smart enough to read and study our Bibles on our own!
The SDA Church does not hold up EGW's writings to the authoritative level that scripture is held at.
I would love to see these two ladies debate doug batchelor and walter veith. It is absurd to think that adventists don't know the gospel. Can you please set the debate?
@Lol bruh I'd love to see Doug Batch o' lies debate the one and only Elce Laureston. Doug will leave the building ultimately humiliated.
@@Over-for-now sarah, what do you think is unbiblical about SDA teaching?
Absolutely yes!
@@LoCoWi Are you kidding? Elce Laureston? His theology is so warped and senseless a child could poke holes in it.
@@nicetry620 Why do you keep accusing people of being trolls?
I do not know much about SDA but I do know a lot about Mormonism, and it is a cult, any so-called religion that claims Jesus is a different Jesus than what is in the bible can be labeled a cult!!
About 19 minutes in, she's correct in saying that Seventh Day Adventists believe that future sins need to be confessed and forgiven as they are committed, but does the bible contradict that idea or support it? 1 John 1:9 says to people who are ALREADY SAVED and have ALREADY ACCEPTED Jesus "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" and again in 1 John 2:1 he says that these things he has written that we may not sin, but IF we sin we have an advocate with the Father" which means that there is a court and a judgment, and Jesus is our Advocate (judgement and advocate are both legal terms) before the Father, interceding His blood on our behalf. Regarding the so-called "split atonement", apart from what I mentioned in 1 John there is also Hebrews 7:25 saying that Christ ever lives to make intercession for us, that is, He is continually interceding for us through the blood shed on Calvary.
The idea that Adventists believe in a "split atonement" is predicated on the idea that Christ's atonement is a once-off, when in fact His SACRIFICE is a once off, but the atonement that is accomplished by that sacrifice is a continuous atonement, because according to Hebrews 7:25 there is a continuous intercession our behalf, the intercession does not stop, unless our repentance stops and we don't confess our sins anymore because we believe "once saved always saved" (Perseverance of the Saints, the P in TULIP ---- Is Arminianism a cult? Is Calvinism the standard of orthodoxy or mainstreamism?)
God bless you Enrico for standing up for the truth.
FUTURE SINS not convfessed byt the memory of them is in the sanctuary and Jesus had to enter as high priest If it was not so Jesus would have been on vacation since his ascension
Hebrews 9 contradicts it.
@@justrosy5 how?
We as Seventh day Adventist believe that Christ made a full and complete atonement for the sins of the world on the cross. This atonement was made for every person on this planet though every individual has a choice to accept or reject the salvation that Christ offers. Christ atonement on the cross and the Day of Atonement are two separate events.
I was born and raised in Adventism. My family and I came out of it in 2005 when I graduated from high school. It took me several years to fully know what to believe or think. I didn’t trust myself or anyone else. I finally truly heard the gospel from the Former Adventist Podcast this past September, and I know that I am born again! It has been difficult and painful coming out of such a deceptive cult. God is so good and has been so patient with me! Thank you for sharing the lies and deceptions of this cult! It has helped tremendously to peel back all the layers of the trauma in my life and the incorrect ways of thinking along with the belief in a false Jesus. I was praying to God that I wouldn’t be deceived and that I would know the true Jesus, and He led me to your channel. It has been so freeing, and I have real peace now. I know that I am sealed until the day of redemption and nothing and no one can take me out of the Father’s hand. That is something to truly have joy about!
now you feel free so sin
So what false Jesus do Adventist believe?
@@ordoabchao5894 Jesus says if you love me, prove it by doing my comments
As a SDA I found it interesting to listen to the history that isn’t really talked about in California. Ellen White isn’t really taught in schools and the Gospel is. I can’t speak to the leaders and the actually structure of the institution. But all the men in my Bible study never reference White, but look at the Bible. We may note be considered SDA by the testimonies of these women. I found the discussion focusing on an old article. But, I happy to listening to their critique. In my opinion, following Christ and the scripture is more important than being a SDA.
Seventh-day Adventists who are baptized believers in Adventist doctrine (28 Beliefs) are not Christian. Adventism teaches doctrines which are cursed in the bible. For example, the Adventist gospel message of 3 Angels Messages is not found in the bible and according to Gal. 1:6-9 this gospel is cursed. A church which preaches a gospel which is cursed is not Christian. Adventism is not Christian and not part of the larger Protestant Christian community.
Galatians 1:6-9: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
@@AcademyApologia
Let God be our Judge!
Do you know who Walter Martin, the author the Kingdom of the Cults, was?
Wow, you’re spewing your thoughts everywhere!
@@peruvianauthorities1739 Why should I be concerned with the thoughts of Walter Martin?
Incoming all the SDAs who are mad about the veil being pulled back.
I am a SDA, and this is FALSE information being presented
@@susanbarnhart7310 yeah yeah, we know. Anyone who corrects you guys “doesn’t know what Adventists believe” or are “misrepresenting Adventism”. We’ve literally been hearing this from you guys for decades at this point. No one cares. We’re going to keep exposing Adventism for its damnable doctrines straight from the pit of Hell and watch God save people from this cult.
I am not mad, I am saying that false information is being passed on
@@susanbarnhart7310 I am a 7th day sabbath keeper who attempted to go to a SDA church. SDA is definitely not Christian. I'll be doing a live show tomorrow discussing why with a former 3rd generation SDA joining me.
To deny people membership because I disagree with a claim of Ellen white, is the sign of a cult when there is no source on earth, Jewish or Christian, that will agree the day of atonement can ever be as late as Oct 22. Not one source on earth. Yet I am denied membership for saying she was wrong. And you don't think that is cutlish?
I was never denied membership. I was told to check her writings after I joined. In reality we could point fingers and call every denomination a cult in some way.
Thanks for having us on your show!
Now we need to do a show together 🙃
Dear Colleen and Nikki, I think you should explain better how you understand the omnipresence of Jesus. I agree that he is omnipresent, but sometimes I get the impression that you do not distinguish between the human nature and the divine nature of Jesus. Do you think that Jesus' physical body is also omnipresent? And if you think it is, what does the return of Jesus mean to you? Thank you for your work; I am listening to all the episodes of your podcast (Former Adventist), from the beginning. I love it.
@@answeringadventism yes, that would be a good show to watch.
I just saw a thread where "Answering Adventism" banned someone for correcting him. Hilarious and weak
Former, may you repent, and turn back to your first love.
Can you do an episode on Seventh Day Baptists? I'm a former SDA who married a Reformed Baptist that told me about this podcast. I woke up this morning curious about what Seventh Day Baptists believe.
THe 28 doctrines of the SDA are Online!!!! ALL have been shown with book, chapter and verses for them.
@@mitchellosmer1293The 28 doctrines of the S.. D. A. church cannot be the same as for seventh day Baptist???
@@robertchilders8698 quote---The 28 doctrines of the S.. D. A. church cannot be the same as for seventh day Baptist???.. unquote
Whatever!!!
@@mitchellosmer1293 I don't know anything about 7 day baptist! As AN X ÀDVENTIST I know that they have changed many things since I was a member! why would they copy the Adventist doctrine!?? Many changes have taken place in the Adventist Church to cover up their wrong doing and mistakes!
trust and obey is the only way
So not true! We do preach that Jesus died on the cross for our sins.
58:00 you ask about Bill Johnsson. He’s still alive and I interviewed him on my channel if you’d like to learn more about his reflections on his interview with Martin and ankerberg. It’s a very revealing interview. Season 2, episode one.
Nikki was right and I've seen this happen many times when talking to Adventists. When you start asking Adventists questions that they can't answer, the only thing they can respond with is their sort of mantra that they've been taught to say back to Christians -- "If you love me, keep my commandments"; "The 7th day is the Sabbath", "The 10 Commandments are eternal", etc. They don't know what else to say after that and they get very upset and start assuming bad motives on the part of the Christian.
Really? Is that the best you can come up with?
The only thing a Christian should say to that Rob is "agreed."
@@charity2275 yes, it is. I've argued with Rob over a dozen times. He has a problem with the sovereignty of God.
Did you notice how "CHARITY" nor "JONNBO" can't seem to produce any source to back their claims up?
These are troll accounts, the same individual 👆....trust me.
Look I'm going to present actual evidence and they won't be able to respond back with anything that's documented to prove a point.
Here we see Ellen G White having her writings placed EQUAL to scripture....
Let's see here 🧐...
Vow #8: "I ACCEPT the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the IDENTIFYING MARKS of the REMNANT CHURCH."
Now let's see what fundamental belief #18 has to say about the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH 🤔....
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF #18
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH and was MANIFESTED in the ministry of ELLEN G. WHITE.
(SO.... here we see that as a member of the REMNANT CHURCH you MUST vow to ACCEPT the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH which was MANIFESTED in ELLEN G WHITES writings)
Now let's see what the spirit of prophecy herself has to to say about her writings....
ELLEN G WHITE:
We "MUST" follow the directions given through the spirit of prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
(Now explain how this is not placing her writings EQUAL to scripture)???
Did you get that? "JONNBO" is admitting to arguing with rob a dozen times....yet he's talking about reporting others to the FBI for harassment 😏🥱🤫🤐...
The troll always exposes himself
The Millerites are the ones that stated that in 1844 Jesus was coming back when in 1844, the Heavenly Sanctuary was being cleansed
Ellen White was a Millerite! When Jesus did not come in 1844, rather than commending the Bible-believing Christians who correctly rejected Miller’s nonsense ideas, EGW “shut the door on them”! According to her, God wanted people to accept the erroneous theology to test their allegiance. This is pure horsecrap.
@@jonasaras you do know that Ellen G. White and her family were kicked out of the church and the Millerites are known as Baptist. She was not a Millerites when the great disappointment happened.
@@susanbarnhart7310 did you say that EGW was NOT a Millerite?
@@susanbarnhart7310 Susan, you write lots of truth, but actually, Ellen White was a Millerite, as her whole family got disfellowshipped from the Methodist for becoming Millerites.
@@statutesofthelord thank you so much.
31 minutes in "none of them believe in the inerrancy of Scripture"....where does she get that?
It’s untrue…so I was wondering where she got that, too!
they believe in the scripture as interpreted by ellen g white. which is the same as saying we can only understand it as ellen g white has explained it to us.
Is this older woman a former SDA?! She needs to know that many Adventist do know the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
What is the gospel of Jesus Christ?
@@Elizabeth-rk3do Are you serious? Are you not a Christian? What cult do you belong to?
@@peruvianauthorities1739 What is the gospel? The fact that you have no answer says it all. 😢
Paul said, I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do "The fact that you have no answer says it all." That is an unfortunate assumption on your part! Don't you think that is very ignorant on your part? Because it is ignorant on your part! Fyi, it's best not to assume because those who do assume - more often than not - assume wrong! And also, why yourself be deceived?!
@@peruvianauthorities1739
_What is the gospel?_
So can you answer it, YES or NO?
No you can't, for your cult is nothing but a demon driven organization to take the ignorant to hell with your works based religion.
Love Nikki and Colleen. Incredible material. I’m a former sda and even run my own show/channel on adventism. It’s great to hear other voices also speaking out and hoping to reveal the truth about adventism. Lovely people (I was one! Lol a 5th gen sda) but a theology that is very deceptive, misleading and actually anti-Gospel. I’d love yo interview you guys sometime to unpack more about what you’re finding. And share it with my diverse (though small) audience!
No, it's not a cult. Every one of our doctrines can be found in the bible. The 7th day as the Sabbath is in the bible, Sunday labeled or announced as sacred or holy or blessed, by Christ or the Apostles, is not. The Investigative Judgment is also in the bible in the book of Exodus and Hebrews. Having a prophet in the church is not weird. It's what the Early church had and it's what many churches claim to have who are not SDA. The immortality of the soul is found no where in scripture, neither is an eternal hell. But it is interesting that it can easily be found in pagan and Greek philosophy.
@@danielcristancho3738 Read Luke 16:19-31.. Call it whatever you want, but you better pay close attention to it. Because, Christ said, the entire old Testament, *"the Law and the Prophets"* , tells you, if your wicked, you are going to be punished immediately after death. So, much so, that instead of calling it, nice peaceful soul sleep, you would wish you could send someone back to life to warn your Adventist's brothers.
All the wicked long for soul sleep at their death, that they may escape from their sins. That's why the wicked commit suicide, because they think they will escape their shame, imprisonment and punishment. They believe as the Atheists and Adventist teach. Moreover, the Adventist encourage the murders of others, the robbers, the rapists to end their life, especially when they cannot find repentance and the escape of the dread of punishment. These wicked will only be like the rich man, absolute stunned by their shocking surprise of find there is a righteous God who will have his angels usher them into the hell and punishment, they were trying to escape. Likewise, does it occur for those who preach soul sleep, for they offer the wicked peace and escape of punishment, therefore, they suffer the same punishment along with the wicked, for having deceived themselves and the world.
When the Ellen G. White and Adventists ministers and followers read Rom.6:23, they think, believe and teach, that death is the Atheist version of death. And, they both believe and teach, that *"Eternal punishment is equal to the death of an animal, like the Atheist's too"* . Wow! Great news to the wicked, everything they've hoped for! Yeah, step on a bug and send it to "Eternal punishment" is exactly what they both believe and teach. Every time Ellen G. White didn't like something she tossed it off as "Pagan" the way the Atheist's do. What idiocy, Socrates and the Greek philosophers received the doctrine of the immortality of the soul from the Old Testament prophets.
@@chucksmith4624 I've already responded to this identical question in another comment section. You're way off base, Chuck.
@@danielcristancho3738 Actually ALL religions start of as cults until they become government sanctioned if you will...And when a religion holds itself aloof simply because it has a dusty instruction book to go with it it becomes even more cultish, dogmatic, rigid, authoritative ("see, look here, it says so in the book, you don't agree then burn in hell"), etc etc
All religions are cultish in nature, because all religions are based on a leader figure (whether self-appointed or not, it's still a leader figure who is often the middle man...In this case it's Iyesus who is the middle man)...Do please remember in the ancient world Christianity was a CULT. The reason it is no longer so is because of backing from the state and money
Side note...Do you know that in ancient Briton (before christianity) there was a sky/sun god called 'Dyeus'? Dyeus/zeus/iyesus...All the same sht, friend. You've been had!
Feel free to wish me to burn in hell, I've had that when i left the SDA church already
Oh and the original Sin? Well that was actually a Sumerian Moon god (many 1000s of years before Christianity), who was known as... 'Sin'...So to be a Sinner literally meant 'To follow Sin (as in the moon God called Sin)...Thing is christian and Muslim and Jewish leaders know all of this (they read a lot more than the two Bulls (Bi - Bull...oops), but they don't like losing members of their congregation to actual truth
I learnt sooooooooo much more AFTER i left the church than the programming i got whilst i was in it
@@danielcristancho3738 who’s way off base? I get lost in these comments on comments lol
The SDA is still the most growing church all over the world
Susan, you are correct. There are now 22 MILLION Adventists worldwide and the Holy Spirit is guiding more to the truth in the Seventh-day Adventist Church every day, in every nation. Evangelists are LOSING thousands because their members are fed up with the corruption in high places; celebrity preachers scamming money from donations; sexual immorality; accepting gay pastors and letting drag queens preach on Sundays, all seen in the media. I've read articles about some Evangelical groups that appear to be CULTIC. Yet, these former SDAs who claim to be Evangelicals ignore the elephant in the room and focus on a smear campaign against peaceful Adventists. God is watching.
Means nothing, God will keep for himself 7000
Satanism is also growing like wild fire, only a proof of the end times not that its the truth one should live by. Just because the people in a religion are nice and God fearing does not make their beliefs right, just because something is growing does not make it right. Please engage what’s being said in this documentary to defend SDA’s, engage the thinking. That’s the only thing that will get people like me to have a fair view, instead you just sound like a brainwashed individual (I say that with respect).
@@hannahisrael7577 I am a Seventh Day Adventist. And someone replied that the hosts did not want anyone on their program to defend the Seventh Day Adventist Church
@@susanbarnhart7310 we are in the comments Susan, you are free to defend your faith, you sound passionate about SDA perhaps you can show me and others why these ladies are wrong is all I’m saying ,
This is FALSE INFORMATION! I am a Seventh Day Adventist! The author of the cult book, Retracted saying that the SDA ( Seventh Day Adventist) IS NOT A CULT.
He also showed William Johnson live in national TV that James White exposed his very own wife Ellen G White about lying....
Do your homework clown 🤡
Where did he do that? 30 years later, he was on The Jon Ankerberg show, expressing deep concern for the direction of the SDA church.
Wow! It even states in the Bible to preach the gospel and the three angles messages
@@Over-for-now Read the book of Revelation!
@@nicetry620 She's referring to Revelation 14
@@nicetry620 I simply directed you to the exact passage you asked for so what more do you want? The entire chapter of Rev 14 deals with the 3 angels messages.
Nothing in these quotations claims her writings her equal to scripture. Isn't prophecy a biblical teaching & gift of the Holy Spirit? Shouldn't her writings be taken seriously if they're a revelation from God?
The hostility directed towards EGW simply comes from the fact that you don't believe her writings are revelation from God.
@@nicetry620 What are your concerns with these quotations?
@@nicetry620 These are Fundamental Beliefs NOT Fundamental vows/promises. You & I know that every other denomination has fundamental beliefs just like the SDA church. You make it seem as though the church forces these beliefs onto it's members just to suit your own narrative.
Every SDA is free to accept or reject EGW as a prophet according to the dictates of his/her own conscience. If God doesn't force anyone who are we to force other people.
The Gospel is Jesus Christ fro Genesis to Revelation
@Gospel man keep thinking that..Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord and that was before Jesus came. You're not saved by works but faith without works is dead. You can't say I belive and in love Jesus without keeping His commandments. The bible says this in John, Revelation and elsewhere... but you can let the delusions conquer you and lose your salvation or do the works of Jesus who did the works His father. You vav say your a Christian but look and act and speak nothing like one...
@@nicolagrant5450 On the contrary, the Christian is "dead to the law" (Rom 7:4). So your understanding is necessarily errant.
Biblical Gospel is defined in 1 Cor. 15:1-4. NOT what WE do, but what Christ DID as He completed the atonement on the cross.
My family is SDA. They and the congregation are some of the most God fearing and Blessed men and women on planet earth. If anyone of you interacted with these men and women on a personal level you would understand that God has blessed their works and their ministry.
They say the same about the Mormons, yet they still uplift a false prophet no different from the SDA church.
You call that God fearing?
Absolutely we are! Thank you.
@@susanbarnhart7310
Oh,🤔...
So your admitting that uplifting a false prophet is God fearing?
No I am not! Jesus Christ is My Lord and Savior! God is my Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit is my comforter when I need it. Happy Sabbath
@@susanbarnhart7310
That's interesting 🤔...
Here we see Ellen G White having her writings placed EQUAL to scripture....
Let's see here 🧐...
Vow #8: "I ACCEPT the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the IDENTIFYING MARKS of the REMNANT CHURCH."
Now let's see what fundamental belief #18 has to say about the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH 🤔....
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF #18
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH and was MANIFESTED in the ministry of ELLEN G. WHITE.
(SO.... here we see that as a member of the REMNANT CHURCH you MUST vow to ACCEPT the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH which was MANIFESTED in ELLEN G WHITES writings)
Now let's see what the spirit of prophecy herself has to to say about her writings....
ELLEN G WHITE:
We "MUST" follow the directions given through the spirit of prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
(Now explain how this is not placing her writings EQUAL to scripture)???
The main reason I would say Yes… is there own history/doctrine teaches that Ellen G Whites writings are “Inspired” … and therefore to be revered and followed like Scripture
Even though many SDA that don’t dig deep don’t realize this… but a quick study and you’ll see exactly what I mean.
And under that inspiration adds to God's word
Actually, her writings are considered secondary to the Bible. Also, the Bible is EGWs main source of reference - I don't know an author who references the Bible more than she does in her writings.
@@youtubedick-tators1991 that's sda double speak, it's her writings that tell you how to interpret gods word AND also adds to it.
Seventh-day Adventist here, and one who is very appreciative of Ellen White for many reasons, however I have never held her writings as equal to Scripture, though I acknowledge that some Adventists have evidently made that mistake - they’ve been insufficiently familiar with her own attitude to inspiration, to Scripture, and to her own calling.
One of the last things she said in public, speaking at Pacific Union College not long before she died, was to admonish the students there that, indeed if they could find anything in her writings which was out of harmony with the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments, that they should not believe what she had written.
Listen up, I'm spitting some truth that you need to hear
About the Adventist doctrine, don't disappear
It's all about the law, man, that's the main thing
Investigative judgement, that's where you'll feel the sting
Chorus:
SDA, Ellen G White, yeah, we're talking about their beliefs
Law, investigative judgement, can you handle the grief?
Unconfessed sin, it's a heavy weight on your back
Better do the works, or you might just fall off track
Verse 2:
They say that sin won't rule you, but they ain't telling the whole truth
If you don't confess, you'll find yourself in a tight booth
And Ellen, she's their prophet, she's got a lot to say
About how you should live your life, in a Godly way
Chorus:
SDA, Ellen G White, yeah, we're talking about their beliefs
Law, investigative judgement, can you handle the grief?
Unconfessed sin, it's a heavy weight on your back
Better do the works, or you might just fall off track
Verse 3:
It's all about the works, man, that's what they say
But is it really fair, to judge you this way?
You can try your best, but still fall short
That's why we need grace, that's the support
Chorus:
SDA, Ellen G White, yeah, we're talking about their beliefs
Law, investigative judgement, can you handle the grief?
Unconfessed sin, it's a heavy weight on your back
Better do the works, or you might just fall off track
Outro:
So there you have it, the Adventist way of life
Law, judgement, sin, and works, man, it's all a strife
But hey, that's just my take, you do you, that's all I say
Peace out.
The Adventists teach that Adolf Hitler is now resting and keeping the Sabbath. Isn't that wonderful?
@@Metalhefe Sure, you do. If Christ was "keeping the Sabbath" "Resting" on the Sabbath *so was Judas who betrayed Christ* and the *murderer too,* who was crucified with Christ. The whole entire argument that "Christ was keeping the Sabbath" while in the grave is utterly ridiculous. If you all are going to make the claim for one, it's good for all. According to Adventist theology All the dead are "resting on the Sabbath" every Saturday.
@@Metalhefe Christ was dead too, how come you all claim he was keeping the Sabbath?
Judas was a Sabbath keepers, he was dead too, so, if Christ was keeping the Sabbath so was Judas.
You all claim those who are dead are "resting" , so, Hitler is resting every Sabbath day according to your own foolish reasoning.
I guess, Ellen G. White is still keeping the Sabbath too according to the Adventists.
*Just admit it, the entire argument that Christ was Sabbath keeping in the grave is utterly lame!*
The German SDAs felt positive about Hitler BC he was a vegetarian & didn't drink.
@@rebeccagable9629 Adventism is the place where every heretic is a hero and none of their hero’s were Sabbath keepers or Adventists. And, these same hero’s Ellen G White praises would have condemned the Adventists as much more than any Pope. The Adventists and their like glory in using the Bible to create heresy, division and seditions. It would have been better to have plucked theirs eyes out and never read a single verse in the Bible.
The Adventists and their like glory in using the Bible to create heresy, division and seditions. It would have been better to have plucked theirs eyes out and never read a single verse in the Bible.
And, now they want you to join them.
Every single one of the Reformers would have condemned with their whole being the doctrines Ellen G. White and of Adventism.
*Heresy is of such evil that Christ becomes so angry that those who preach it are absolutely guarantees that they are to be sent to eternity in hell* for corrupting the sacred gospel given by Christ to the Catholic Church. How many times does the scripture have to warn these heretics.
what
The sanctuary is simply one of the most beautiful messages ever recorded in scripture which clearly depicts the business plan of salvation & how God deals with the problem of sin. In it we see Jesus Christ as the way, the truth & the life. We see the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus Christ for the salvation of humanity. We see Jesus Christ as our Judge & advocate. We see the second coming of Jesus Christ and the destruction of Satan & the wicked. A correct understanding of the sanctuary message clears up the misunderstandings regarding what atonement actually means from a biblical standpoint and many other important bible themes such as the state of the dead, Judgement and the second coming.
Atonement isn't merely an event but a process. The death of Jesus Christ on the cross and the events after the cross are all important events in the atonement. The death of Christ on the cross has already been completed which is why He said "It is finished" as He became the true Sacrificial Lamb. His death is very important as it gives us the title & fitness for heaven through the imputed and imparted righteousness of Christ. Anyone that chooses to accept this special Gift receives mercy as His death saves humanity from the penalty, power & presence of sin.
However, the events after the cross are critical as well to complete the process. The resurrection of Christ, His ministration as our Judge & Advocate, His second coming and the destruction of Satan & the wicked are all crucial events as I mentioned earlier. We cannot say atonement is entirely complete if Satan is still alive & causing so much pain, suffering & sin which prevails in this world. What hope is left for humanity & everyone that has died in Christ if Jesus doesn't return and call them out of their graves. Jesus Christ needs to return at the end of His ministration as our High Priest and take the redeemed with Him to heaven. Satan and all the wicked need to be completely destroyed in the lake of fire as a way of putting an end to sin which is why eternal torment makes no sense at all. The main purpose of the atonement is the salvation of lost humanity & the final eradication of sin. Then and only then can we say that atonement is complete.
@@Over-for-now How do you mean?
That made little sense. Atonement is already completed as the bible teaches, no way it says in the bible atonement is complete after we are in heaven. Period after the cross are periods where salvation is offered to mankind, age of grace per say. Where Jesus commissioned us to make disciples of all nations
@@noelroga4593 Pardon me but I think I need more clarity on your comments before I can give my response.
What's your understanding of the meaning & purpose of atonement? And what exactly do you mean when you say it's already completed?
And what do you mean when you say the period after the cross is the age of grace where salvation is offered to mankind? What was the age before the cross?
the MOST important thing to be noted about the Sanctuary doctrine is that IT COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS what the Bible says about our atonement.
Colossians 1:21-22
//And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He HAS NOW RECONCILED YOU (perfect tense; completed action) in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.\\
2 Corinthians 5:18
//Now all these things are from God, who RECONCILED (past tense) us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.\\
The Bible describes believers as ALREADY RECONCILED by God to Him through His work on the cross. NO FURTHER ATONEMENT IS NEEDED.
Still not convinced?
Hebrews 10:14
//For by one offering He HAS PERFECTED (perfect tense; completed action) all those who are being sanctified.\\
Our sanctification is still ongoing, but our RECONCILIATION (I.e. atonement, as found in the Greek) is PERFECTED before God. Still need more?
Hebrews 10:15-17
//And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
“This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
then he adds,
"I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS NO MORE."\\
That needs no further explanation. Our atonement is FINISHED, so far as the Bible is concerned.
@@mikkellowe1270 In what way(s) does the sanctuary message COMPLETELY CONTRADICT scripture if it's clearly found in the bible? Didn't the sanctuary services point to the redemptive work of Christ? Doesn't the sanctuary give us a FULL PICTURE of Christ's redemptive work & the true nature of atonement?
My comments do not in any way deny the COMPLETE sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The popular view that the SDA church & EGW deny the finished work of Christ on the cross is a total misunderstanding and completely false. Jesus Christ paid the full price on the cross & His "sacrificial atonement" is already complete. And so the question is what's the importance of His death?
The death of Christ brought an end to the old testament sacrificial offerings of animals which clearly pointed to Him, the True Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. This is what He was referring to when He said "It is finished". His substitutionary death saves humanity from the penalty, power & presence of sin. His death opened the way for every believer to come boldly before His throne to receive forgiveness and by faith claim the benefits of His sacrificial atonement through repentance & confession of sin. His death gives us the title & fitness for heaven through the imputed & imparted righteousness of Christ.
The verses you quoted actually prove what I'm saying so I honestly don't understand the contradiction.Every believer who comes to Him through repentance & confession of sin receives forgiveness. The righteousness of Christ stands in the sinner's place at that very moment as if he/she had never sinned. What follows afterwards is sanctification which is ongoing just like you mentioned.
That being said, it's very important to understand that the resurrection of Christ after His death, His Ascension & Intercessory ministry, His second coming & destruction of satan and the wicked are as important as His death on the cross.
Of what relevance would be His death if Jesus didn't resurrect & ascend to heaven? How can we receive forgiveness & claim His perfect life and death as our own without His Intercessory ministry? How will sin ever come to an end & how will the dead in Christ resurrect if He doesn't return and call them out of their graves?
Once again no one is denying the finished work of Christ on the cross but you have to look at the BIG PICTURE when you define atonement. The sanctuary clearly reveals this.
Do y’all ever touch on rabbinical judaism/Phariseeism
His truth is marching on! Fannie Bolton was one of the first whistleblowers on adventism. She started to speak out about Ellen White's name being used on writings that were not hers. She was one of Ellen's "assistants". She was asked to "put the polish on" the writings in the morning. So not only was Ellen White plagiarizing, she was having her assistants plagiarize for her. Their method of silencing a whistleblower was to put Fannie Bolton into an asylum in Michigan and claim that "she's listening to the adversary". By the way, she's most likely the author of steps to christ.
I am a 3rd generation SDA. I left for several years and returned in 1985. It is a decision that I have never regretted!
There are several issues of concern in this discussion. Adventists DO believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. We DO know what the gospel is. We DO believe in the Trinity! We teach that the Holy Spirit is NOT an “It!” Adventists don't believe that Jesus is a creted being. I wish that you had featured a least one current SDA instead of former Adventists. I don’t know where these women are getting their info about all Adventists think a certain way. It is incorrect. The term “Archangel” means chief of the angels. It is not in any way teaching that Jesus is an angel.
Next time, please feature current SDA’s who can correctly portay Adventist beliefs.
You also believe in the inerrancy of Ellen G White...
You also believe Jesus is Micheal...
You also believe that the fourth commandment alone seals you for salvation....
You also believe that you MUST follow the directions given through Ellen G White...
You also place Ellen G White equal to scripture...
How about discussing that now?
Joel, you’ve never spoken to me, so how do you know what I believe? I believe in the inerrancy of scripture. Ellen White’s writings are not scripture, and therefore not inerrant, or a substitute for them. SDA’s are not a monolithic group. Some are vegans, some vegetarians, some pescatarians, etc. The common thread is the desire to honor God with our bodies. We hold the same principles, but have different ways to approach them.
Oops! I didn't read your entire reply! Sorry. I think I addressed most of your Ellen white questions by saying that I do not place her writings on the level of the scripture, and neither did she. Now let me ask you something. What do you do with the 10 Commandments? Do you believe that they are still binding? Is it true that the only one that you really question is the fourth commandment? I’m just curious to know how you approach the moral law.
@@yvonneshelton9975
Ellen G White's writings are therefore "NOT" inerrant,you say?🤔....
LET'S SEE HERE 🧐🧐🧐👇👇👇
SDA QUARTERLY STUDIES:
The Bible and the writings of Ellen White are inerrant.” Sabbath School-Quarterly; Feb. 11, 1978, Teacher's Edition, p. 112.
Well would you look at that 😏...
"the writings of Ellen White ARE INERRANT.”
I believe in what the Bible says. I do not place Ellen White’s writings on the same level as Scripture. With that being said, some of the most beautiful books that I have ever seen about Christ, like “The Desire of Ages,“ and “Steps to Christ,”were written by Ellen White. When one reads those books, one cannot help but feel that they are inspired. But, are they on the same level as scripture? no. Nothing is on the same level as Scripture.
You still never answered me about the commandments. What do you believe about them?
SDA DOES BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY Father,Son, and Holy Spirit
Only in 1980. General Conference released this position.
That’s still problematic. Ellen White stated that Jesus got a job promotion, and that’s what made Satan jealous. So Jesus, according to her, was not eternally co-equal. All that to say that you cannot say that you believe in the orthodox Christian trinity and EGW simultaneously.
You MUST strike out this from her writings and state that she was incorrect, but SDAs will never do that. Here is the quote:
ELLEN WHITE 1 SP 17:2:
The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son he had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was his Son to work in union with himself in the anticipated creation of the earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. His Son would carry out his will and his purposes, but would do nothing of himself alone. The Father’s will would be fulfilled in him. Satan was envious and jealous of Jesus Christ.
do not does
Jesus didn’t get a promotion he is the creator. All things were made through him he created Lucifer who became jealous at some point. The problem with this cultish program is you don’t really have adventist on your show who can actually explain to you what we believe. You should look for the video “go tell the world” a seven day video explaining the history of our church.
I’m SDA and I don’t believe in the Catholic Trinity! I believe in the Godhead, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit is the spirit of either the Father or the Son.
what day did Jesus keep the Sabbath? its really not that hard team. I thought we were followers of Christ?
No, you are followers of the persecutors and murderers of Christ. The Adventist's and their like don't understand, and they don't want to see. But, they know, they have never kept ONE Sabbath day according to the commandment. Yet, they want to tell everyone else to do something, they don't do yourself. And, then they tell everyone they did it, when they didn't. God hates that stuff.
Every time they tell someone how they keep the Sabbath or the 10 commandments, the Holy Spirit knows they are lying. It convicts them, but they shut your eyes and mind to it. And, each time they do so, they move further away from Christ and his grace. And then, your heart is hardened all the more. So, now they have no more conscience, it is now easy to deceive yourself and others, with now guilt. Neither do they confess your sins or examine your heart, because to do so, flies in the face of all the countless times, they have told people, "I or we keep the 10 commandments" , when they know they do nothing of the sort. And, thus, they move more and more away from the light into the darkness of the self-deceptive and deceitful heart of Judas, who betrayed Christ with a kiss.
Therefore, it is no great sin to them to testify falsely again their neighbor and Billions of Christians. Their hearts has betrayed Christ, while they kiss him with your lips, your heart is far from his as Judas's was. And, for the love of their cult and to believe a lie, God has their them all strong delusion.
Tonight, they can get on your knees and plead your guilt and clean up your heart and lies. But, I doubt they will because they love your cult more than Christ and deception more than honesty.
He was born under the law to redeem those under the law. In Acts 15, Sabbath was not a requirement. Read Col. 2:16 & 17. Sabbath is a shadow, the rest in Christ is the reality. "Come unto ME & I will give you rest".
@@rebeccagable9629 how can the sabbath be a shadow when it was made before sin ? jesus can give your spiritual rest but he cant force sabbath rest on you. sabbath is a physical rest.
If the Seventh Day Adventists are wrong please explain why The Ten Commandments say that God’s Sabbath is the 7th Day and the Catholic Church even admits that the Catholic Church changed the Day of Worship to Sunday the 1st day of the week? This would seem to me that the Catholic Church is the Cult!
@Joel Villarreal I know the SDA Church reads and follows E G White writings but I have never heard anyone putting her Books on equal level with the Bible and can you explain why most churches follow the Catholic lie about Sunday.
You have been lied to. Constantine didn't "change" the day but put into law what was always the Christian practice. Christians met on the first day of the week (Sunday) because it's Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10; 1 Cor. 16 etc.). Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of the apostle (died 110) wrote: "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death." The Christian Sabbath is the first day of the week.
There is no explanation why other churches follow the Catholic Church Day of worship? Perhaps they are afraid of being criticized because they fall outside the normal tradition of following Catholic Sunday Worship? Protestant is called that because they’re protesting some Catholic traditions but they still follow the biggest one of all “changing God’s Sabbath.
@Gospel man we are saved when Jesus comes again and saves us.
Ah, now it's the Dr G account 👆is back at work trolling the platform making claims about the topic of the video, yet unable to present any source to prove your case 😏
Cults came out of Sunday churches. The Quiverfal religion, some of the Baptist, and Methodist, Scientology, Jehovah Witness,
Jehovah's Witnesses were founded by Charles T. Russell, a follower of Ellen G. White. He adopted many of her beliefs and liked to make false prophecies like Ellen did.
@@gooberpeas535 the prophecies are coming true. The Book of Revelation is unfolding. Ellen White wrote about them
And out of the Saturday churches too. If you don't believe me, just ask them where God the Father came from. Heck, as yourself that... Let's see how fast the melt-down comes, in 3-2-1...
@@justrosy5 I am a Seventh Day Adventist. I have my own testimony. God the Father created everything. I will stand firm in my Faith.
@@susanbarnhart7310 Um, the New Testament proclaims Christ to be Creator.
The one thing I wonder about though is that the angel of the lord, which does appear to be Jesus in the Old Testament, also says the lord rebuke you. But in those places it doesn’t say “he didn’t dare utter.”
Is Jesus an angel?
Many thanks 😊 🙏
Thank you to those involved putting together this interview and presentation. I found myself briefly in an Adventist group a number of years ago and experienced the condemnation that comes from a legal message devoid of the clear gospel message of the person and work of Jesus Christ and the great atoning work at Calvary. Thanks again.
They say "we hold the Sabbath because we love God." Sounds good, but they don't talk about the guilt you will surely feel "speaking from a first hand experience" when you do something like cook food or put gas in your car! Our savior died for our sins. Not to scramble about worrying about such trifling things.
@@potter8488 feeling convicted for sin is a sign of the Holy Spirit.
@Joel Villarreal I've come across him. The same talking point just shuffled around a bit. Kind of like a Taco Bell menu.😀
@@potter8488 🤔Do all SDA's work 6 days a week?
@@potter8488 😂🤣👍
Atonement in Romans 5:11 is payment for sin. That is certainly finished for everyone for all time long ago. But in Leviticus fungal invested homes, leprous persons, etc. need "atonement," which is a cleansing process. And while payment for sin is all finished, cleansing from sin is ongoing. As Adventists speak of the cleansing of the sanctuary, that is referring to Leviticus.
LOve the Ellen. Adventists say their is no fault in her writings.
Ellen G. White, , wrote extensively about the topic of masturbation or "self-abuse" in her books and articles. In her view, masturbation was a sin that could lead to physical and mental harm.
For example, in her book "The Healthful Living," she wrote: "The practice of self-abuse [masturbation] is a terrible sin, and one that will surely be punished, unless it is most thoroughly repented of and forsaken." She also believed that the habit of masturbation could lead to a weakened willpower, moral degradation, and a lack of self-control.
Maybe that explains the frustrated look i see in SDA`s?
Interesting that you picked the topic of masturbation? Are you having issues there?
@peruvianauthorities1739 smart arse, interesting you picked the topic. The point is neither of us are giving advice. It's Ellen, who has prophetic authority over adventism. So are you agreeing or stating its a false teaching of Ellen. Yes or no?
Or maybe that was a misinterpretation of "self abuse" on the part of Adventists. Think about it. Change "masturbation" to "self depreciating" (saying how stupid you think you are, etc). At the very least, doing that makes her statements about that a lot more truthful - and it's a truth that needs a lot more preaching in the Adventist community, IMHO.
She called it "solitary vice" & also wrote that it caused tuberculosis.
@@rebeccagable9629 false prophet would say that wouldn't they!
This streaming site is very biased.
Why don't you have people who are in support of the seventh they Adventist?
Like the ministry?
Pastor James D: Kenhorst SDA Church ministries?
You should really debate him live and then you will get a true understanding of what. The SDA church is all about because he is very good at explaining and giving a full understanding of what true adventists doctrine is all about.
And he will help you abundantly with understanding what the Bible is bringing to the surface for us to see it clearly.
@Susan Barnhart not one example in the book of genises of man keeping a Sabbath.
A thinking person, that is not one belonging to a cult, would ask ...why is that?
Major bible characters that do not declare one Sabbath kept!
Hmmm.....maybe they weren't required to....
95% of what Adventism teaches is fable. One can't get past the 2nd chapter of Genesis without running straight into the wall of Adventist fable. . Let's start with Genesis 2.
1. .Adventism teaches Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath in the Garden of Eden. *Pure fable!* Nowhere in scripture.
2. Adventism teaches God kept the Sabbath in Genesis 2. *Pure fable!* Nowhere in scripture.
3. Adventism teaches because Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath in Eden, all mankind is obligated to keep the Sabbath. *Pure fable!* Nowhere in scripture.
The Adventist teach that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath so “all mankind” is obligated to follow their example! However, there is NO example.
Unlike the Adventist teaching, no one in scripture teaches to follow Adam and Eve in their Sabbath keeping.
Moses didn't teach it.
Christ didn’t teach it!
The prophets didn’t teach it and
neither did the Apostles!
And, the reason is, there is NO example nor a slightest commandment to keep it. .
And, neither did any of them teach that Adam and Eve kept a Sabbath or Rested!
Lastly, if the Adventist's and their like were honest, they would admit they have never kept ONE Sabbath according to the commandment which forbids, "ANY WORK" . What hypocrisy. It's all for show.
@@chucksmith4624 I was never taught the 1st one and 3rd one but for the 2nd one: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Genesis 2:2 KJV
That literally means God kept the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the day of rest. Where you take a break, and just have a stress-free day. And of course going to church. But the world had just been made, church hadn't been "invented" yet.
@@adaughterofAthena All of this is much to do about nothing. You don't keep the Sabbath yourself. God doesn't keep Sabbaths and neither does the scripture say Christ nor his Father ever kept the Sabbath.
Jesus's teaching is that Jesus and His Father, *“Works*” on the Sabbath day *and I work also* as Christ taught in John 5:16-19 And for all his Good Works, the Sabbath keepers, *"sought all the more to KILL CHRIST"*
*Christ and his Father "upholds ALL THINGS by his power"* Col.1:17 And he is before all things, and *by him all things consist* (hold together)
Heb. 1:3 There is no greater work done in heaven or earth that WORK. Of course, then the Sabbath keepers *"sought all the more to persecute Jesus and how to KILL HIM"* Most of the Sabbath keepers today, *follow the example of the persecutors and murderers of Christ and their* *"Elders"* .
And, for these things, the Sabbath keepers neither knowing the Father or the Son betrayed and Murdered Christ and the Apostles as they had done to their own Prophets before them.
The $DA use the Sabbath to do evil works, to " *Draw away disciples unto themselves* " to slander their neighbors, bear a false witness against all Christianity and to praise themselves for how wonderful they are and *to lift up the spirit of FALSE prophecy by the thousands.* And, then *blow the trumpet to announce to the world, they are keeping the Sabbath, while they are only PRETENDING* Not one of them keeps the Sabbath according to the commandment.
Did Jesus our God keep the Sabbath of course. I think I will follow the example of Jesus. PERIOD.
former adventist fellowship truly do care about current SDAs and truly know the Gospel. as a former SDA their ministry has changed my life for the better. i know colleen and nikki personally and they know what theyre talking about. listen to them!
Lol. Talking like both are not former Adventists. You dont know your scriptures thats why you defected. And an Adventists wont say "When you break the Doctrines you get the mark of the beast and die" (Where did you get this from?) Because Adventist know what is the mark of the beast. And its basically the Gods day of Worship. Read the prophecies in the Bible..
Dear friends
I am SDA. I was raised SDA. I struggled with the SDA message for some time but through study and prayer I intellectually continue in this faith and not with “blind devotion. It is my prayer you will with open mind read what I have to say in response to these episodes.
The first question I have is why are these “SDA experts” featured? Why is not a current SDA member on the panel for discussion? Over the years I’ve been exposed to individuals such as these ladies and rarely can an objective discussion ensue due to overwhelming bias. In fact the majority of the “facts” presented here are skewed to fit their narrative. Where is the balance? It is clear the Apologia hosts have already made up their minds before the conversation could even give anyone the opportunity to make an informed decision? Where are the biblical texts to back up the information presented? Where are the historical documents?
We should have learned over the past few years,in particular, that ad hominem,“character” attacks should alert to the fact something is amiss; this is exactly what’s going on here.
It should also be noted that anyone who’s “ministry” is for the primary purpose of discrediting a group might ought to raise some eyebrows as well. Aren’t there usually two sides to a story?
For instance they call attention to “insider” Sabbath school lessons and other written materials. The sole purpose for this is to make it seem secret or insider or cultish; these “experts” would have you believe there is some conspiratorial information ONLY for SDAs. I find this laughable. A simple Google search and you’ll find this “insider” information. The fact is anyone can acquire these items at adventistbookcenter.com/ and most of it on Amazon; not so insider…
These “experts” would have you believe Adventists hold some distorted view of the soul when in fact we hold the biblical view of soul sleep. (Ecc. 9:5) www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4987/t/are-the-dead-really-dead-
They would have you believe the Sabbath doesn’t matter. (Ex 20:8-11). They poke fun at the idea of a great controversy between Christ and Satan. But doesn’t the Bible introduce such an idea in Genesis 3:1? Did God really say? (Questioning God’s authority); What about Satan presenting himself in the councils of God regarding Job (Is anyone loyal to God?) Job 1:6-12); Lucifer wanting to ascend to the heavens (Be like the Most High) Isa. 14:14; The temptations of Christ (who will you worship?) Matt 4:1-11; Or how about Michael and his angels? (physical battle) Rev 12:7. Do these not at least allude to a struggle? Paul admonishes us not to forget we do not fight against flesh and blood (Eph 6:12). What about Christ sweating as it were great drops of blood in Gethsemane? Is that only from physical strain or perhaps He’s become the Sacrifice and the sins of the world are laid upon His head? Lk 22:44
There is spiritual battle. 1 Peter 5:8-9.
Again I ask is it too hard to believe in a controversy between Christ and Satan? If that’s not too much of a stretch then ask yourself why do these experts along with the hosts of Cultish poke fun; ad hominem.
I would suggest reading The Great Controversy for yourself with Bible in hand.
m.egwwritings.org/en/book/132.2?ss=eyJwYXJhbXMiOnsicXVlcnkiOiJUaGUgZ3JlYXQgY29udHJvdmVyc3kgIiwibGFuZyI6ImVuIn0sInNnX2luZGV4IjoiMCJ9#2
They would have you believe William Miller came up with a “theory” of a day for a year to back up his end time predictions. A day for a year is not his “theory” but is in fact supported by the Bible itself. 1844madesimple.org/year-day-principle/
Another point. Does not Apologia Church hold to sola scriptura ( I’m not trying to attack this church; the question needs to be asked)?
If so then why do it’s pastors not teach Sabbath observance? Did not God say, “Remember the Sabbath day…? (Ex 20:8-11) Is there any biblical text(s) giving evidence to authority to remember the Sunday? Did Christ come to abolish the law or fulfill it? (Matt 5:17-20) Which law did he come to fulfill? Is Christ not the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world? (Rev 13:8); Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system. He did not nail the Decalogue to the cross.
Jesus has identified His faithful remnant as those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus (Rev 12:17).
He did not say keep part or almost or do away with one of the commandments or it’s okay to keep a human tradition ( because it commemorates His resurrection)…no He has said if you love me keep commandments. (Jn 14:15). Nowhere in my Bible is there mention of commemorating His resurrection day on Sunday. I am not admonished in my Bible anywhere to honor a man made custom in lieu of. I just can’t find it anywhere and if evidence can be shown to the contrary I’d happily keep Sunday if that is God’s command.
So why do Protestants keep Sunday? By what authority? Where is the command found? These questions need to be asked.
Have you looked at the history regarding Sunday keeping? Do some digging.
Here’s an interesting article written some time ago. www.practicaprophetica.com/books/atj/romes-challenge-why-do-protestants-keep-sunday/
In fact further historical study regarding the Reformation leads to the Council of Trent. You may be shocked as to what was decided. And this may be hard to read but the council found the Protestant Reformation an unwarranted revolt. Why? Because they claimed the scripture alone as sole authority but Protestants stated in the Augsburg Confession they keep the “Lord’s Day” as appointed by the Church (Catholic). Thus the Council of Trent ruled the Reformation as nothing more than a revolt. And look what happened in October 2016; Protestants have gone into ecumenical council with Pope Francis in effect handling over the what remains of the Reformation. You can read more about here: www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/the-council-of-trent
And: amp.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/29/reformation-luther-pope-francis-catholics
This is a vast subject and I could say a lot more but please do not take my word for it.
This may discredit everything I’ve said thus far but what’s been presented here is false information and false teachings. These well intending individuals are leading folks down the wrong road. Please. Please. Do your own study. I’ve provide links; you can start there. And I’ll provide a few more resources below.
At the very least read the first chapter of The Desire of Ages, entitled, God with Us. Use your Bible compare this chapter with scripture . I challenge you to see if this is “cultish”. If that’s not convincing enough read the whole book or The Great Controversy along with your Bible. There’s no insider, secret information here. Read and study for yourself. m.egwwritings.org/en/book/130.21#21
Resources:
www.practicaprophetica.com/books/atj/romes-challenge-why-do-protestants-keep-sunday/
m.egwwritings.org/en/book/132/toc
rumble.com/vmod4z-wup-66-futurism-dispensationalism-antichrist-and-mark-of-the-beast-indonesi.html
m.th-cam.com/play/PLdbXyyVfVp-5DtuVv8UjSBEUdPLexFYEp.html
Very well said. Thanks for trying to provide balance here. It would be great if Apologia did invite a current knowledgeable SDA member.
The video's not even over yet, so how are you responding to it?
@@davorivasthere are plenty of these on YT … Allen Parr has a good one.
Why do you not host an Adventist theologian to hash out these matter?
@@Yesica1993 it’s a replay.
So not true! Jesus died for our sins and we all fall short. We do not do any child/ animal sacrifices. Wow!
I was a third generation adventist but when I started growing up, I started to question some practices and beliefs...but too bad Adventism would consider you as being "swayed by the devil" when you try to question something. They only care about being politically correct and used fear and guilt tripping to "preach the gospel". No wonder most of the crusades they have is about "end times" (daniel & revelations). They take pride in following the bible word per word but also judged and look down on those people that has different faith and religion. Sad reality.
The vast majority of SDA's do in fact allow others to question! Guess you were surrounded by sitting on the fence.
Peruvian authorities doesn't have a clue what he's talking about
But they don't follow the Bible word per word, their teachings are completely heretical, and anti-Biblical. They have no clue about the Bible bc they do not read it for themselves and rightly divide the word of truth, just like JW, RCC, LDS, "Pentecostals" etc. They are trying to put themselves under a different ministry, in a different dispensation, that was for an entirely different group of people (the Jews). If they would actually read the Bible from cover to cover, for themselves, they would get out of that cult immediately and actually get saved. *(1 Cor.15:1-4)*
@@peruvianauthorities1739 I have a question. Are you going to heaven? If so, how do you know? Have you trusted in the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ, from your heart? His blood atonement on the cross is what saves us, and that alone. *1 Cor.15:1-4* You cannot add anything to that.
@@wyattearpswoman838
Fyi, no man or woman can state whether they are going to heaven or not - unless they live a righteous life and follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.
This is from the April 2019 edition of Ministry Magazine:
*"The Seventh-day Adventist Church is losing members at an alarming rate. Even though the evangelism in our churches is winning people, we lose about 49 of every 100 baptized. This hemorrhaging of our members cannot continue. It is expected to get worse, especially in countries where soul winning is difficult; and if it continues, entire conferences maybe closed for lack of members"* .
(Think about that for a moment. That is essentially *50%* of people leaving!!).
It is still the fastest growing church though.
@@BjornBjorn *"It is still the fastest growing church though."*
Nope. Not in the United States. Do your research.
@@BjornBjorn *_So where exactly do we find the Sunday law in the Bible?_*
@@Former_SDA There is no Sunday law in the Bible. That is my point.
@@BjornBjorn I totally agree.
A certain religion is not a cult just because you dont like it.
Adventists are removed from the Book of life even from one unconfessed sin!
This is the assurance of salvation the poor Adventist is offered!
He is judged by the law.
Though claiming not to be under law the law condemns then for failing to keep the covenant ten commandments.
The schoolmaster is in the house of Adventism.
the bible says no sin will enter into heaven. if you know your sinning and dont confess well then your guilty. your under the law of condemnation when you sin . god will judge all by the commandments. only those who accept christ and obey him will have eternal life.
Adventist double speak means saved is the "process of being saved" as they are in what they call the" Investigative Judgement"
This is a hideous concept of rejecting Christ`s finished work on the cross and having him judge the every thought and action of a believer today!
Obviously they cant properly claim saved if they are still being judged.
What does Ellen White say about being saved?
"As long as man is full of weakness--for of himself he cannot save his soul--he should never dare to say, 'I am saved" (1SM 314.2).
One unconfessed sin according to Ellen their now decease Prophet removes the poor sevy from the book of life and renders the poor sevy UNSAVED!
If this is not a sect where heresie`s abound i dont know what is !
as long as you follow and obey him you will be saved. if you continue in unconfessed sin you could lose your salvation. the bible says no sin will enter into heaven. jesus is author of eternal salvation to those who obey him
@@peppernbo Hi Peppernbo, how you goin? I understand that you are required to maintain your righteousness or lose it. Correct?
@@bop-ya-good through the grace of god yes
@@peppernbo So Grace is conditional, hmm interesting.
I see that as you are on probation in the investigative Judgment it must be this way.
Or Jesus cant remove you from the book of life.
Paul describes this righteousness you have i beleive.
Rom 10:5
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. correct?
@@bop-ya-good just follow jesus and you cant go wrong. jesus left us an example to follow
It’s funny how in the video and in the comments, they try to convince people of what we believe and when we say no we do not believe that, it is said that we are not really Adventist.
Thats good if you doint believe what Ellen says because she was wrong!and she added to the scriptures the Lord said doint add or take away from scriptures.
Bring an actual Adventist to defend the opposing view instead of former SDA’s who are obviously biased when it comes to the topic at hand
Can’t call yourself apologia studios and dedicate the entire time bashing a group without allowing the opportunity for someone to respond in defense of the group.
I recommend inviting TH-camr and Adventist Justin Khoe to come and have fair dialogue with you guys
@@edgarsmclaren Justin Khoe is very deceptive regarding Adventism.
@@edgarsmclaren
It's already happened, smarty-pants...
Live on national TV Walter Martin DEBATE William Johnson..
Do your homework 🧐
@@nicetry620 oh wow you got me… now question for you. If the debate was settled in 1984 then why are these people still talking? Waste of time right? Nah, it’s an ongoing conversation, regardless to have a fair conversation there has to be representation from the opposing view
The Adventist teach that Adam and Eve kept the Sabbath so “all mankind” is obligated to follow their example! However, there is NO example.
Unlike the Adventist teaching, no one in scripture teaches to follow Adam and Eve in their Sabbath keeping.
Moses didn’t!
Christ didn’t!
The prophets didn’t! and
neither did the Apostles!
And, the reason is, there is NO example.
smith, why don't you believe Jesus is our example?
@@statutesofthelord Christ never taught be ye Jewish as I am Jewish. You are in no ways like Christ. You all are more like the Sabbath keepers who betrayed and murdered Christ and then the Apostles.
Jesus's example and his teaching is that Jesus and His Father, *“Works*” on the Sabbath day *and I work also* as Christ taught in John 5:16-19 And for all his Good Works, the Sabbath keepers, *"sought all the more to KILL CHRIST"*
*Christ and his Father "upholds ALL THINGS by his power"* Col.1:17 says, 17 And he is before all things, and *by him all things consist* (hold together)
Heb. 1:3 There is no greater work done in heaven or earth that WORK. Of course, then the Sabbath keepers *"sought all the more to persecute Jesus and how to KILL HIM"* Most of the Sabbath keepers today, *follow the example of the persecutors and murderers of Christ and their* *"Elders"* .
And, for these things, the Sabbath keepers neither knowing the Father or the Son betrayed and Murdered Christ and the Apostles as they had done to their own Prophets before them.
This is the typical response you get from these accounts (STATUESOFTHELORD)👆 on this channel that seem to bash the video but can't seem to produce any evidence or source to back it up so they go based off their opinions and disregard scripture or the SDA statements of beliefs
@@nicetry620 very well said
@@statutesofthelord because he told you he wasnt.
As a former Independent Church of Christ/Christian Church I heard her say that even though some SDA are more liberal in their view they still hold on to the original teachings. I see that in the Independent COC/CC. there are many who are leaning more to a more liberal view and it is so subtle that it almost seems as though they are doctrinally sound but they are not. Justification at Baptism is still what unifies them.
In my study of cults, it has become clear that each cult has its own language. The cult knows how to speak our language; the Biblical Christian needs to learn to speak theirs if we are to penetrate the language barrier and truly communicate the Gospel.
I've found the Sabbath argument easy to deal with and haven't faced major grief from my SDA friend concerning it. However, the Investigative Judgment is a whole different ball game - it's one big spaghetti ball of confusion that I cannot get my head around. I have noticed that it tends towards a works gospel in my friend; though that temporarily dissipates in him when pressed with Ephesians 2:8-9 and others.
His obsession with the Investigative Judgment, I am sure, is stealing any joy that is evident when we stay off that subject. He comes alive when we speak of God's goodness through the Gospel. I feel that if he left the SDA and sat only under sound teaching, the double mindedness would go over time. Yet he's keen for me to get to know some of the folk he fellowships with.
I refuse to do so.
Struggler, so do you remember to keep what God said to keep?
@@statutesofthelord
do you keep all ten commandments daily?
@@nicetry620 the commandments are the whole torah not just the sabbath brother.
@@iguanapoolservice1461 Exactly!
Your just not to smart and that’s ok.. remember people didn’t understand jesus.. ask me and I’ll answer
I'm no 7th day Adventist but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
@@Over-for-now My point is the 7 day Adventists doctrine may be out but tulip is also heresy, so to have a show pointing out cults yet being one itself is hypocrisy. Seventh day Adventist have Ellen white, Calvinists have John Calvin. Both have their idols, men who theyve relied upon to interpret the scriptures for them, both to their own folly
@@Over-for-now Do you believe God creates people just to send them to eternal torments? Doomed from the womb?
@@Over-for-now My whole point of this message was for the hypocrisy of Calvinists calling people cults. If you aren't a Calvinist why are you replying?
As for questioning God's sovereignty, I question the Calvinists idea of Gods sovereignty as it is a gross misinterpretation and partiality of the scriptures leading to the blasphemy on His merciful nature.
@@Over-for-now Romans was referring to rebellious Israel who were hardened in their rebellion against God, not the gentiles.
In their rebellion, denial of God, God chose to elect a remnant, not by works but to fulfill His word as they were to lead the nations as shown in acts 15 and acts 20.
Read the context, the elect were the 12 tribes, not calvinists
Calvinism is not a cult yo. No Calvinist believes Calvin was a prophet and no Calvinist denies any of the primary doctrines of the faith. They come right out of the Reformation. In fact, another name for it is literally “Reformed theology”. It’s the teaching of the Bible through and through.
So sda doctrine was formed before the clear word was published. SDAs dont get their doctrine from the clear word
She stated Never Take her Writings OVER the BIBLE
@@Over-for-now she never added anything nor took anything away
@@susanbarnhart7310
She took the writings of others DENIED doing it and claimed it all came directly from God...
She also placed her writings EQUAL to scripture.
Are you ready to discuss the facts through sources...
Or are we doing the, "based on opinions" responding?
SDA THEOLOGIAN ROBERT BRIMSMEAD: "It is true that there is evidence of literary borrowing by different biblical authors. But in such cases they used material that was the heritage and common property of the covenantal community. It was not private property, and there was no pretense of originality. With Mrs. White, however, the circumstances were much different. WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT she used the literary product of those OUTSIDE HER OWN religious community, copyrighted it, and DEMANDED royalties both for herself and her children. Right and wrong are to some extent historically conditioned, but we do not have to surmise the literary ethics demanded in Mrs. White's day. The facts are not ambiguous. SHE DID NOT CONFORM to ACCEPTABLE literary PRACTICES."
Robert Brinsmead, Adventist Theologian, "Judged by the Gospel", p. 172
WHITE ESTATES:
"The great bulk of her comments deal only with the divine source of her material and tend to deny the influence of human thought and opinion. And, thus, while we have no problem with the fact that Mrs. White did borrow, we do wonder why she appears to have denied her borrowing."
Ron Graybill, Associate in the White Estate, Nov 1981 speaking to the Adventist Forum Board
SDA general conference president:
"The historical portions of The Great Controversy that I have examined are selective abridgments and adaptations of historians. Ellen White was not just borrowing paragraphs here and there that she ran across in her reading, but in fact following the historians page after page, leaving out much material, but using their sequence, some of their ideas, and often their words. In the examples I have examined I have found no historical fact in her text that is not in their text. The hand-written manuscript on John Huss follows the historian so closely that it does not even seem to have gone through an intermediary stage, but rather from the historian's printed page to Mrs. White's manuscript, including historical errors and moral exhortations." Donald R. McAdams, "Shifting Views of Inspiration", Spectrum (magazine) 10, No. 4 (March 1980) p. 34
It's so easy to write or choose a definition of "cult" that suits your predilictions and paste the label on those you believe should be "culted"
How about this....
A church that allows a false prophet (Ellen G White) to have the final say...
Millions of SDA members all OBLIGATED to follow the writings of a false prophet..
Is that what you would call a cult.
Seems like this was just slander and half truths spewed by two bitter women with no intellectual or theological depth, just emotions, would be interested to see a knowledgeable adventist in the mix, im not the most educated but would definitely take the stand to defend my faith, respectfully
Good on you
How about you take a stand right now and explain why the SDA church allows a false prophet Ellen G White to have authority EQUAL to scripture over the church?
Explain why Ellen G White took the writings of others DENIED doing it and claimed it all came directly from God...
Go ahead I'll wait....
@@nicetry620 She herslef never claimed to be a prophet merely a messenger and also said about her writings to be a ‘Lesser light’ not to be placed above the authority of Scripture however the authority of her writings are well substantiated and supported by Scripture, its common in her writings to read that we should never take for truth any claim without a ‘Thus sayeth the Lord’ for example, none of this is hidden, read her writings and make up your own mind, friend
@@guitardu Here we see Ellen G White having her writings placed EQUAL to scripture....
Let's see here 🧐...
Vow #8: "I ACCEPT the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the IDENTIFYING MARKS of the REMNANT CHURCH."
Now let's see what fundamental belief #18 has to say about the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH 🤔....
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF #18
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH and was MANIFESTED in the ministry of ELLEN G. WHITE.
(SO.... here we see that as a member of the REMNANT CHURCH you MUST vow to ACCEPT the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH which was MANIFESTED in ELLEN G WHITES writings)
Now let's see what the spirit of prophecy herself has to to say about her writings....
ELLEN G WHITE:
We "MUST" follow the directions given through the spirit of prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
(Now explain how this is not placing her writings EQUAL to scripture)???
@@guitardu
That's what I thought 😏🤫🤐
Oh great the SDAs found this video and are repeating everything these ladies just stated and saying she's lying
I am defending what I believe. I am a Seventh Day Adventist
SDA have a strong 100+ years presence in west Romania, in Europe. I lived 2 houses apart from the oldest SDA congregation in Romania.
We have a lot of mixed family, SDA members think they are just like us Orthodox.
Yes, that’s very good, like how you present the show but have you thought of doing a “Cultish” episode on yourselves and Christianity in general?
About how it’s done away with all the biblical feast and replacing with pagan ones,
Eating foods Yahweh says not to, doing away with the Sabbath which is the Fourth commandment and the only commandment that has the word “Remember” I’m front of it.
There’s not a single verse, chapter or book in the bible that says you can change these things but yet Christianity has.
Also talk about how it’s the biggest cult in the world having 3.2 billion folks claiming to be part of it.
Don’t forget to add Paul, who’s writings you twist to create lawlessness of those who are untaught and unstable as you do also with other scripture.
Lastly again go into detail of how Paul years after our Messiah had ascended had the authority to over throw all the Torah, the profits, Yeshua and even Yahweh Himself by changing so much stuff.
It will be interesting to watch that episode and see what gymnastical scripture hoop jumping you use.
Thanks, I’ll look forward to watching it
What religion/world view are you coming from? Just asking because it sounds like it should definitely be the topic of future episodes. Thanks.
@@nando7522 Hi There
It’s not Baptist, Mormonism, JW, Pentecostal, Roman Catholicism,
Brethren, Hebrew Roots, or any world view or religion.
It’s Genesis to Revelation, it’s believing in the Scripture.
If it’s written for us ( mankind) to do something then you do it if it’s not, don’t.
Don’t add and don’t take away, it’s not a religion.
There was no Brit Hadashaw when Paul or any of the apostles were going around, it was added later to give an account of the Messiah fore told in scripture.
It was added to confirm The Old Testament not to refute, discredit or change it.
Paul didn’t go to the Bereans and say “ Yeshua is the Messiah and Yahweh’s instructions are now done away with.
The Bereans would have walked away from him and not even checked the scripture to see it what he was saying was true.
And if they did,,,,, Paul would not have said “wait,,, no need, here is a letter I wrote to the Galatians you can read that instead.
This would have made Paul a false prophet and be what is described in Deuteronomy 13.
There is no denomination, religion or world view to describe it.
Christianity has changed scripture meaning more than any other religion in this world and I would like to see a cultish episode done on it.
I’m just a carpenter and I know something wrong with that mainstream religion.
Thanks for your reply, sorry, long answer to a short question and could have gone on for ages 😄
Great that you are taking time to expose this false religion.
Lot of minutia and what would even be considered secondary issues being argued in the comments. I see very little from SDA individuals pushing back on the representation of the SDA view of salvation, the trinity, and the nature of Christ.
Eschatology is largely secondary (not essential to understand for salvation). I invite SDA individuals to refute or defend the way they are represented here in this video.
Jesus Christ is our rest and he says so in scripture. He fulfilled the law and abiding and resting in him and his love and obeying his commandments of love is what we need to focus on. Not any doctrine or theology but relationship. Religion is dangerous because its manmade and Jesus is against manmade doctrines. Its time to wake up we are very close to tribulation.
“Cult” is the wrong word to use… “Damnable Heresies” is what the Bible calls it. Lies is something we fight against within our own lives, families, churches and nations. Anything that is against the truth of Jesus Christ is “cultic” in nature.
It's a theological cult, not a Jim Jones cult.
EXACTLY!!! I left for my mental health preservation ~ I was having nightmares ~ Everything was contemplated in view, was there time before The Door Shut??? And, all the inane, hypocritical “rules” - And discovering bit by bit, EGW’s near insanity and list of her own “sins” ~ (Would you like a splash of vinegar on your oysters?)
I highly recommend the book and movie, The Road to Wellville; about Dr John Kellogg. A belly full of good deep breathing guffaws, best appreciated by ex-SDA’s…
CindiLoo, Dr. Kellogg went into apostasy because he believed in Pantheism. Is that why you recommend his book?
Why would her past sins matter? Did you not read the Bible and ever other books in the Bible? Paul killed lots of Christians and Peter literally betrayed Jesus
Yeah, I left for the same reason - my mental health. They gave me nightmares too. One of 'm even tried to drown me in the PUC pool, and some others had me ready to commit suicide. I had to get out, so I took my GED and never looked back (I was stuck in their private schools before that).
READ THESE VERSES THERE ONLY 8 VERSE THAT TALK ABOUT THE 1ST DAY (SUNDAY)OF THE WEEK AND IT NEVER TALKS ABOUT GOD CHANGING SATURDAY SABBATH TO SUNDAY
GEN 2:1-3 REST 7TH DAY (SABBATH MEANS)
EXODUS 20:8-11 REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY
JOHN 14:15
1 JOHN 2:3-6
AND THERE ARE MANY VERSES THAT POINT TO SATURDAY THE 7TH DAY AS GOD'S SABBATH TO SAY CHURCH WAS ON SUNDAY FROM THE BEGINNING IS A LIE I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GOT YOUR BIBLE FROM BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT IN YOU PEOPLE REFUSES TO ACCEPT GOD'S DAY AND WANT TO DO SUNDAY BECAUSE OF TRADITION FEELINGS AND OPINIONS PROVE IN THE WORD OF GOD SUNDAY IS THE DAY OF WORSHIP IS 1ST DAY SUNDAY YOU DID NOT DO YOU YOUR RESEARCH AND I DON'T CARE HOW MANY TIMES YOU READ IT YOU ARE REFUSING TO ACCEPT GOD'S WORD AS IT IS WRITTEN
Most Biblically literate Christians understand that Saturday is Sabbath. EGW really hated Catholics so why do you believe what they say about their church changing the day? The early Christians met on the 1st day of the week & that was LONG before there WAS a Catholic Church! You must do research & read early letters/accounts such as Justin Martyr & others--they clearly talk about the early church meeting on the 8th day to honor the Resurrection.
SDA is Sola Scriptura! The Bible and the Bible only. It is is in the Bible we want it, if it is NOT in the Bible we don't want it
Here we go with the loony troll accounts👆
What about Ellen g white?
@@Hanshotfirst6688 She would NEVER accept the title of anything other than a Messager. I am a Seventh Day Adventist. I do read her books. If I don't understand something, I use her books as a study guide. People wanted to know if I was going to watch the rest of it. I defended my faith. What people don't know and realize, I grew up Methodist. Married and Divorced Baptist. The Pastor was starting to sound like another false teacher/Pastor. I prayed at one time to donate to Cultish. And after they did the one on SDA, I did not donate.
@susanbarnhart7310 She falsely prophecied that the door of mercy was shut in the 1850s. That nobody else would be saved.
Oh wait, PRESENT TRUTH comes to the rescue and nullifies Deuteronomy 13 and 18. We can just kick the can down the road forever.
Repent of your false prophet. For your own good. It's a disgusting thing that she has done selling people into bondage.
Ellen G White isn’t in the Bible. If you’re true to your statement, you will renounce her
Wasn't Ron Wyatt an adventist?
Yes, he was
@@lincolnliking his testimony of finding blood on the opposite side of the Mercy Seat is truly amazing if it's true. What do you believe?
I don't believe it's true the way he tells the story says he's being deceptive and shame on him for that.
Guess there's no limit to whom these guys will come after and attack...
This is gold. Thank you guys for putting together such a great program!!
"Gold"! Guess you must be a former SDA? Why do you hate E G White and the SDA church?
@@peruvianauthorities1739 where did I say I hate Adventists?
It's implied! You considered "this gold" and a "great program" - featuring two women not knowing what they are talking about! And no balanced panel! No doubt the older woman got James White confused with Joesph Smith! But you would have never picked up on that up! And the author of the book - Kingdom of the Cults as well as the man Walter Martin mentioned, Le Roy Froom are both RC. It's a good idea for people to speak who speak the truth! Why let yourself be deceived?!
@@peruvianauthorities1739 wow. So judgmental. If you falsely assume me and publicly suggest that falsehood - you are now breaking commandment number 9. And I’m assuming? You’re sda. And therefore you know you are now jeopardising your salvation. I’ll pray for you
@@SDAQandA Since when is the truth judgmental? Unfortunately, people hate the truth. Btw, I responded to your comments without assuming and without "bearing false witness." Oh, and thank you for praying for me.
Dispensational Calvinist is an oxymoron...
These women work for Life Assurance Ministries founded by radical Dale Ratzlaff, a bitter former SDA pastor and teacher who caused a LOT of trouble in the Adventist Church and was told to either RETIRE or be FIRED. So, he lost his credentials as a minister and had to go elsewhere to earn a living so started his own "church" and wrote several books smearing Adventism. Collen and her husband Richard, though SDA at the time were very liberal and believed what Dale wrote including the twisted, distorted narrative and they both were fired by the SDA denomination for things they did and said. Dale HIRED them to work for him. Richard Tinker is president of Life Assurance Ministries (LAM) and Colleen Tinker is editor of LAM's egregious Proclamation magazine sent to thousands of SDAs and former SDAs every Friday. Every article bashes and slanders Adventism and demonizes Ellen White. How do I know? I've read Ratzlaff's books and the sleazy Proclamation every week. I'm gleaning a LOT of information to include in a book I'm writing to EXPOSE the false narrative, the lies, the radical opinions by them and others who MAKE MONEY this way. I won't be surprised if my comment is deleted, shadow banned or ridiculed. That's how these people silence others who disagree with their conspiracy theories.
I did not know that at all. I am standing on the true church when I was lied to a kid in the Methodist and later Baptist churches
I'll look forward to reading your book.
@@Over-for-now If EGW was a false prophet as so many LIARS claim, then how do you explain all the predictions and wise council that she made that have COME TRUE? And more in the near future? God condemns those who hate His prophets, and the Bible is clear that ALL the prophets were hated by wicked people who did not want to hear about their sins. So, EGW is no different. You just proved it.
I saw that when I did research on this. These ladies are in a cult themselves!
@charitu2275, I will be the first to read that book.
Jesus was called a cult
It Hurts when many of the faith have lost interest in the visions Almighty God Has given EGW.. and Many who know not of this precious gift given.. Almighty Gods True Sabbath vs False Sunday worship will be the War Waged soon.. here is a glimpse of what the wolves in sheep's clothing care to not have known,
I saw the rapping delusion. Satan has power to bring the appearance of forms before us purporting to be our relatives and friends that now sleep in Jesus. It will be made to appear as if they were present, the words they uttered while here, which we were familiar with, will be spoken, and the same tone of voice which they had while living will fall upon the ear. All this is to deceive the world, and ensnare them into the belief of this delusion.
I saw that the saints must have a thorough understanding of the present truth, which they will have to maintain from the Scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead; for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them, professing to be beloved friends and relatives, who will declare to them unscriptural doctrines. They will do all in their power to excite sympathy, and work miracles before them, to confirm what they declare. The people of God must be prepared to withstand these spirits with the Bible truth that the dead know not any thing, and that they are the spirits of devils.
I saw that we must examine well the foundation of our hope, for we shall have to give a reason for it from the Scriptures; for we shall see this delusion spreading, and we shall have to contend with it face to face. And unless we are prepared for it, we shall be ensnared and overcome. But if we do what we can on our part to be ready for the conflict that is just before us, God will do his part, and his all-powerful arm will protect us. He would sooner send every angel out of glory to make a hedge about faithful souls, than that they should be deceived and led away by the lying wonders of Satan.
I saw the rapidity with which this delusion was spreading. A train of cars was shown me, going with the speed of lightning. The angel bade me look carefully. I fixed my eyes upon the train. It seemed that the whole world was on board. Then he showed me the conductor, who looked like a stately fair person, whom all the passengers looked up to and reverenced. I was perplexed, and asked my attending angel who it was. Said he, It is Satan. He is the conductor in the form of an angel of light. He has taken the world captive. They are given over to strong delusions, to believe a lie that they may be damned. His agent, the next highest in order to him, is the engineer, and others of his agents are employed in different offices as he may need them, and they are all going with lightning speed to perdition. I asked the angel if there were none left. He bade me look in an opposite direction, and I saw a little company traveling a narrow pathway. All seemed to be firmly united, and bound together by the truth.
This little company looked care-worn, as though they had passed through severe trials and conflicts.
Revelation Chapter 22 Verses 18, 19 (please read these verses again brothers and sisters)
Prayers to All brothers and sisters, GODSPEED and A-men
Here we see Ellen G White having her writings placed EQUAL to scripture....
Let's see here 🧐...
Vow #8: "I ACCEPT the Biblical teaching of spiritual gifts, and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the IDENTIFYING MARKS of the REMNANT CHURCH."
Now let's see what fundamental belief #18 has to say about the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH 🤔....
FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF #18
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH and was MANIFESTED in the ministry of ELLEN G. WHITE.
(SO.... here we see that as a member of the REMNANT CHURCH you MUST vow to ACCEPT the IDENTIFYING MARK of the REMNANT CHURCH which was MANIFESTED in ELLEN G WHITES writings)
Now let's see what the spirit of prophecy herself has to to say about her writings....
ELLEN G WHITE:
We "MUST" follow the directions given through the spirit of prophecy [Mrs. White's writings]. ... God has spoken to us through His Word. He has spoken to us through the Testimonies to the church and through the books that have helped to make plain our present duty and the position that we should now occupy." (Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 298)
(Now explain how this is not placing her writings EQUAL to scripture)???
That's what I thought 😏🤫🤐
@Thee3AngelsMessage Amen
You see the difference between trolls and debaters?....
One presents sources....the troll just gives opinions, just like Susan Barnhart
These ladies are excellent speakers! Thank you for this!
"Excellent speakers?" They hadn't a clue as to what they were talking about. The older woman got James White confused with Joesph Smith of Mormonism.
to bad they dont tell the truth
John8:50NIV"0I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. " The Christ who seeks his own glory is a false Christ and can save no one.
John7:18NIV"Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." In case you missed it the first time. The Christ who promotes the worship of himself rather than his God and Father is unrighteous and thus can save no one from sin.
@Gospel man @gospel man,the post seems quite self explanatory,what part of it is confusing you?
I would love to actually have a conversation with this lady that thinks she knows what she is talking about
@@nicetry620 With all do respect, when i say conversation I mean what I say. Your the one that sounds a little fired up for some reason.
They arent facts if you have only one side being presented. No one on here would agree that a one sided discussion on any topic is rightly represented.
You, obviously, dont know what is fact and what is not about what she said because you havent looked into it yourself. Otherwise, you wouldnt have said that
@@nicetry620 Cant respond to hours long of video over a comment section. I can easily have a civil discussion about it because I have nothing to hide and im fine when people disagree. But twisting facts and misrepresenting an organization as a whole is not cool. Of course they can do it if they want. But I can also dosagree and point people to study the history for themselves from sources not biased. Look at both sides then judge for yourself
@@nicetry620 Hi Joel. So sad that you must lie.
@@rogerwilco1910 Since I have had conversations with you . I can pont out that you fail to show us wrong.
For instance this is true.
BELIEF 1: HOLY SCRIPTURES
The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration. The inspired authors spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to humanity the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history. (Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 4:12; 2 Peter 1:20, 21.)
www.adventist.org//beliefs/
1. The law is not done away with it is established. Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 1 John 3:4 whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
2. The law does not save. Its job is to define sin. Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Read Romans 6 and Ephesians 2
@@rogerwilco1910 I am now a Christain and a member of the Seventh day Adventist church for about 50 years. I was an agnostic till I found Jesus in the SDa and was born again.
God is love. Ask me any question.
We believe in the Scripture! And Scripture Only
😆right?
More like Ellen G White...
@Gospel man the 9 commandments are really just common sense .
Here is some Scripture and I ask have you ever read Exodus 16:29?
"Bear in mind that the LORD has given you the
Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives
you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay
where he is on the seventh day; no one is to
go out."
And if so, what do you make of it?
Back to Exod 16:5, "on the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days".
is it actually, to provide for, so after church you don't have to stop by Micky D's for a burger and a coke. What else? I digress
"Everyone is to stay where he is on the
seventh day; no one is to go out."
What does this part mean?
@Gospel man No I am not Bible ignorant but you are. I do not observe the literal sabbath day of the legal dispensation, because Christ is my Sabbath. I rest in Him.
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” Matthew 11:28 (NIV)
Short answer, YES
Amen
While I disagree with a chunk of their theology, I don't think they are a cult. I know SDAs and they don't behave like JWs or even mormons. And I know some who amicably moved onto other denominations.
Behaviour isn't a sign of whether someone is in a Christian cult, doctrine is. They teach a false gospel, false Christ, and that obedience to the Sabbath will save you in the end times. They are a cult, just not as obvious and out there as the others you mentioned.
@@ByGraceThroughFaith_ well then that would make calvinists a cult.
@@anthonym.7653 false. Calvinists believe in the historic orthodox view of the Trinity, that you are truly saved by grace through faith in Christ alone (one of the main solas of the reformation), and that obedience to the law is not required for salvation. They simply differ from other Christians on the manner in which God saves people, not the actual gospel itself. It's a difference of soteriology, not theology proper or the gospel itself.
@@ByGraceThroughFaith_ Why is it that Christian’s as far as 300 years after Christ’s death revered the sabbath? What word of Gods said he change the day.? I’ll tell you, he did not.
@@jenniferstechow6278 If you do a nonbiased study of early church history of the first 300 years, you will see that the church as a whole was not keeping the 7th day Sabbath. It's true that Jewish converts continued to keep the 7th day Sabbath early on, but the majority of the church were meeting at home churches on Sunday. They did not consider it a Sabbath, although there are quotes from church fathers that seem to indicate they believe the Lords day replaced the Jewish Sabbath, not as a Sabbath in and of itself but as a memorial to the resurrection and a day to gather and break bread.
Go back and look at my previous comments, I did not claim the day for the Sabbath was changed anywhere. My issue is honestly not whether Seventh Day Adventists want to keep the 7th day Sabbath, my issue is their teaching that it's the seal of God in Revelation and that you must keep it in order to be sealed and saved in the end times. That doctrine is found nowhere in scripture, and places our end times salvation on whether we keep the law, an idea explicitly condemned in the Bible.
Love Martin's books. Very informative
The SDA's were not honest with Walter Martin.
@@jimdrummer816 That's odd! Walter Martin was not honest with the world when it came to the SDA's! Because Walter Martin was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
@@peruvianauthorities1739
When you blaspheme the name of God and say that he must do an 'Investigative Judgment' to determine those that are saved, you are not being honest yourself.
The true and living God is omniscient. God knows all things. God knows what your next post will be.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do The investigative judgment is not for the benefit of God. As you say, He knows everything. But the angels are not omniscient. Neither is humanity. The judgment is for their benefit, so their minds can be at rest that God has judged righteously. Think of all the atheists today who accuse God of being unjust. But at the end we read in Romans 14:
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
And in Philippians:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Besides an investigative judgment is not confine to us. It's how God has worked throughout the Bible. When Adam and Eve sinned God came looking for them.
"Genesis 3:9
And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Didn't God know where Adam was? and when He asked:
"... Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?"
Did God not know the answer? The questions were not for His benefit but for the sinners to reflect on what they had done and accept their guilt before they received their punishment.
Similarly, before He scattered men over the earth and confused their language:
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. (Genesis 11)
Couldn't God see what they were doing from heaven? He didn't 'come down' because He had to, but for the sake of the unfallen worlds, He had to be open in His Judgment.
Again, before He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah He said:
20 Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. (Genesis 18)
As you can see, there was an investigation every time God passed judgment on a people. Is it even plausible to think that He will destroy all the wickedness on the earth with any less of an investigation?
Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
The Lord is about to do the most spectacular, world-shattering thing in the history of the universe with His second coming. Is He likely to keep this from His people. And where are the prophets who tell the people what the Lord is about to do?
Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
@@Elizabeth-rk3do quote---When you blaspheme the name of God and say that he must do an 'Investigative Judgment' to determine those that are saved, you are not being honest yourself. unquote
So, acordinmg to you, there is NO such thing as the'Investigative Judgment' . Then why is it in the Bible????
This investigative judgment determines who of the myriads sleeping in the dust of the earth are worthy of a part in the first resurrection, and who of its living multitudes are worthy of translation (1 Peter 4:17, 18; Daniel 7:9, 10; Revelation 14:6, 7; Luke 20:35).
---quote-The true and living God is omniscient. God knows all things. unquote
You seem to think the investigative judgment is for Him!!
IT IS NOT!!!
It Is for all the earth and all creation.
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works (Rev-20:12)." This judgment takes place after the thousand year millennium; it ...
---Satan accused God of being unjust, unfair. All these judgements will PROVE HE IS JUST AND FAIR!!! Anyone can see/read those books that are being used to judge all!!! When someone says to God, "why isn;t my son here with me???" The books will be there for that parent to see the why!!! OR, "why is that person here when I know he is a criminal??" God will present those books!!!
I just got sucked unknowingly into SDA teaching via the Earthen Vessels channel. I am a newer Christian of 3 years, I can't believe how I was deceived so quickly into questioning everything I have learned in Scripture. Thankfully, I realized things were WAY out of bounds when I started reading about their theology that the Trinity is a "deception." On its face, they seemed legit and made some good points - not being a biblical scholar, it was hard to refute/follow all the Scriptures they used to defend their postions.
Your not that smart.. I’m not insulting you it’s just a fact that you admitted.. I’m a SDA and the last thing we want to do is indoctrinate you.
Study many many different topics to come to a actual intelligent decision instead of just blindly believing one video
Adventists are liars and thieves
@@rayray4192 you are a lier and a thief
@@king-nick2023 if you are going to call someone a liar at least spell the word correctly. Adventists are stupid naive simpletons who become mean narcissistic judges like their devil prophet. Ellen White was the daughter of the devil and lied throughout her entire life. Her entire life was a charade.
@@rayray4192 look at how you are projecting.. I’m pretty sure you’re just another insecure guy behind a screen angry at the world..
For 10 years I was a baptist.. for the last 10 years I’ve been SDA and they taught me more about Jesus then any other denomination out there.. so get your facts right liar 🤥
What a great show. This is very informative.
Didn't Walter investigate Ellen and the IJ. I don't think he investigated very well.
Very good, thank you!
This is all lies. Flesh will fail you. You read the Bible for yourself & ask the Holy Spirit to bless you with discernment.
Walter Martin was deceived by Calvinism, so his discernment was already wounded.
Did a chihuahua just nip our heels?
Adventists appear to not like being asked questions.
Like how do they know they are keeping the seventh day when their is no mosaic calendar.
Or
Are their past present and future sins atoned for on accepting the gospel.
They apparently have a different gospel to that of Paul.
It’s called language.. god created languages right? Now google Saturday in all the different languages
@@king-nick2023 and none will be able to claim we know what day jesus kept the Sabbath. There is only 1 in 7 chance of getting the day right. Maybe keeping a token day of a gentile calender is OK.
@@king-nick2023 Sabbath keeping was for a select few.
@@bop-ya-good truth is truth weather people believe it or not.. it’s for Gods people and that’s a fact.. I can provide over 20 different scriptures both old and New Testament along with historical facts.. what can you provide?
@@bop-ya-good The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath” (Mark 2:27). These words of the Savior remind us that the Sabbath day was meant to be a blessing rather than a burden to those who observe it.
He said it was for man.. not for a select few
Thank you for this conversation, however, the logic and conclusions of several criticisms of Adventist theology are misrepresented in multiple factors by highlighting specific individuals and writings rather than the whole. This was not a complete discussion just a highlight of certain points of view that are blown out of proportion misrepresenting the whole.
Some will have a chip on their shoulder and look for reasons to discredit others for their experience in the past. It is always unfortunate when someone who should represent Christ does not and it causes harm to others. However, please be more careful about generalizing about every human, Christian, or Adventist. Each has their own story, own experience, and understanding whether or not it is Christian, Adventist, or otherwise.
Do Calvinism next
These guys are Calvinist, and Calvinism is not a cult.
@@mmtoss6530 yes it is
@@spiderb3367 how? Calvinists don’t deny any fundamental Christian doctrine. Just because there is a major disagreement doesn’t mean it is a heresy. I don’t think Arminianism is heresy.
@@mmtoss6530 They absolutely deny fundamental Christian doctrines and affirm many heresies. They affirm absolute divine simplicity, the filioque, double predestination, their heretical soteriology lends itself to nestorianism and/or dividing the Trinity. They are iconoclasts. Most modern Calvinists today deny the perpetual virginity of the Mother of God or even her title as such, also Nestorian, ironic because Calvin himself affirmed the perpetual virginity. They deny the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the most fundamental Christian ritual doctrine that exists. Calvin established a para-church organization, that is by Christian definition, a cult.
@@spiderb3367 are you a Roman Catholic? Mary was born a sinner. The reason Christ was born sinless was because he is God and was conceived of the Holy Ghost. They also affirm the Nicene, Athanasian, Apostle’s, and Chacedonian creeds. Where do you get the idea that they are tritheistic?
These ladies do not know Adventist doctrine.
Yup. It is.
Hello. Could you share your knowledge of the differences between the AKJV and the KJV? Thanks.
Thats all I read anymore and i know there differences but not sure.
@@citysaverthrift1262 if you are referring to the “Authorized Version” it’s the same as the King James. There may be some spelling updates but that’s it. The text has remained the same.
@@AVKingJamesBible Yes. I was referencing the authroized version. That's what I read now. But on biblegateway they are two seperate versions. Wasnt sure what the differences were. So which then is the book of the lord? Since they are different would you say?
hebrews 5:9--and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him. also rev 22:14
I took a class from Jack Blanco before the publication of the clear word. Adventists do not all have that paraphrase version nor do we use it for study. He was a wonderful person. He did hesitate to publish it because did not want people to use it for study. I had one in the past. I don’t think I do now. I’m sorry to say this episode is full of misleading and false information. But you all can’t tell me what sin is.
I was before this series considering supporting your ministry in a large way because I have enjoyed other episodes, but I can’t trust you now at all. This is so badly done you have destroyed your ministry. SDAs are anything but dogmatic. Study for yourself reader. Ask questions. Pull on threads. Truth can stand up to questions and the test of time. There is an Adventist History podcast that explains some of the good and bad in Adventist History. Adventists don’t hide anything. We hash everything out and are still doing so. No church saves anyone. Your relationship with Jesus transforms your life. To know God is to love God. If you love me keep my commandments God says. SDAs believe in 10 commandments not 9 but even that will not save you. You must be born again with a new and right spirit. If you are dead to sin how can you live any longer in it? Death, burial and resurrection to a new life in Christ. If you were an Adventist and you didn’t understand the gospel then I’m sorry. Christ is working in every church. Don’t turn away from truth. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Love Jesus and keep his commandments of love that are for your best good.
Are there Adventists who don’t know the gospel? Yes. All kinds of people are Adventists. Some of us read the Bible for ourselves and others are raised Adventist and may not study. Even though I’m a sixth generation Adventist on my mother’s side, my mother always says you have to be a first generation Adventist. You have to study to show yourself approved onto God. This is your reasonable act of worship. Let everyone be fully convinced in his own mind.
Trolls responding to themselves 😏
Explains everything
@@nicetry620 really!!!
@@dr.g1482
Yes, really.
The proof is the discussion sections through the sda channels, same pattern "smarty-pants"...