Shadow of the Colossus - Story Explanation and Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- (SPOILERS FOR ICO AND THE LAST GUARDIAN AHEAD) It's finally here, and it looks GORGEOUS. These are just some of my thoughts on what was happening throughout the course of this great game. If you have any dissent or extra thoughts to offer along with my analysis, please leave them in the comment section below!
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All in all, Emon was wrong about sacrificing her because her fate was cursed. The sacrifice was the cause of Mono's cursed fate.
Isn't it beautiful!?
It's a classic example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
She was cursed and there was no avoiding it Emon learned this I bet
Ironic fates is the cup of tea of greek myhology. Try to avoid it and destiny would screw you anyway.
“One often meets his destiny on the road he took to avoid it.” - Jean de La Fontaine
I dont think dormin is evil, personally. I believe he's neutral. There are a few reasons I believe this, namely, the fact that he warns wander of the consequences before he does anything, (which kind of eliminates the idea that he's just being used) at the end he says that he "has BORROWED" wanders body, implying that he intends to "return it," and the fact that dormin does what he says he would do and brings back mono.
Yeah, but I'd say that even the devil looks after his own.
He's not evil, but he's pretty much made on all that is considered evil.
lawful neutral
Bang on I'd say... I don't think Ueda thinks evil exists.
Dormin more or less seems like the kind of being whose domain is an antithesis to our own existence in some way. So while the power that he wields is most likely only capable of being used for dubious or evil means it does not necessarily mean that the entity that rules the power has an evil intent.
This is often the case for gods of the underworld in multiple-god pantheons. Such as Hades or as I recall, Anubis. They're not evil beings, but the power they wield is more or less opposite to our own existence or survival.
In simpler terms. He might be made of concentrated evil. But that doesn't mean that he himself is a malicious entity.
Spoilers maybe: I always thought it was prophesized that Mono was to be involved with bringing back Dormin, so they sacrificed her to try to stop it. Ironically, her sacrifice is what causes Wander to take the sword and seek out Dormin.
PhantomGK2 I thought so too omg
Holy shit. That's genius, if that really was what they were getting at.
PhantomGK2 this makes a lot more sense... but then again why keep Wander around?
@@dorothytovio6975 it could be they only saw Mono in the prophecy
@@dorothytovio6975 "dat girls gonna bring ancient BBEG back to life...got kill her so the prohecy dsnt work"
Wander: "that is where you where wrong"
I'm glad SotC is still getting this much attention after all these years... I really am.
This game is something else. I like to be isolated in that world. Only me, my horse and the giants !
They need a sequel or something, a spinoff of some sort. This world is dead ass addictive.
No you're not 😤
Because the world screams history and mystery so many times iv played this I constantly asked myself what happened to this world and what is the story within the story I wish there was a book or manga or something that explains the world more in detail.
This game is a masterpiece
Very few people know about Nimrod, the tower of babel and how his body was scattered across the land. Congratulations.
meh, the first time i ever looked up shadow of the colossus stuff online i came across it. it's all SOTC lore fans' favourite comparison to the game, so it's not really too hard to find if you have any interest in looking stuff up about the game
Very few? Anyone how has looked up a shadow of the colossus video probably know that(or been down in the comment section)
I'm stuck in 2008.
Dormin wasn't evil at all neither is he arrogant
Sorry but this is all wrong. The main character fell in love with his horse but the horse was in love with the colossi, so he had to kill those in order to win the heart of the mustang.
Nead Oh!!! So when *SPOILERS* the horse died; he was actually killing himself because he knew the main protagonist was killing the last of the colossi?? Damn. That’s deep
Well those are finish the game know how well that worked
Agro was intended by the developers to be a mare, you *_FUCK!_*
*Translation:* Edgard Cruz, you referred to Agro as a "he" when Agro is in fact a "she" and I am deeply offended by your mistake.
Shade Wait, but you left out the "you fuck," that's the important bit! Now, "I am deeply offended by your mistake, you fuck" I'd be okay with.
One of the greatest games and for me, love stories ever told.
The world, it's atmosphere, the serenity juxtaposed by the fights, the story of this one guys love driving him to slowly kill himself, likely knowingly, to save the one he loves against all hope. He doesn't care if he dies, he just needs her to live and his determination to pay that bill, no matter the cost to himself.
A storyline that needed so few words to convey something so powerful, and it did it with a beautiful world and as a video game - a singular experience.
It should be remembered as one of the all-time greatest. Not just greatest video games. Simply one of the greatest tales of the condition of love.
A video game could convey so vividly this tale as no other media could hope to come close to.
"how would you convince people to spend 50 bucks on a graphical rebuild of a 15 year old game?" You don't. Not because the game is bad, but because you're sane. Then, the moment comes where you can tell people that this amazing title can be bought for 20 bucks. Like right now. THEN you tell them to get it.
Or you wait for this moment, NOW, when it's free.
@@kudosayala4943 Dang. Just finished it. Still have my PS2 copy of it, and ICO original release with artcards.
I got it for free 😑
I buy that game year ago about 12$ and just play first time on ps5 now. I finish yesterday and damm very good story, almost as good as the last guardian. But why no 60fps on ps5. I think I will back to made platinum that game deserves it.
@@fedur82able wow first time I see someone like TLG more than SotC.
I think of the story as the origin as a tower of babel scenario, but slightly tweaked. Dormin (or Nimrod) is punished with his people for attempting to reach the heavens, and is split into many pieces across the land. There the civilizations began to develop, but became lost over time. I don't know if the civilizations themselves even coexisted together at the same time as the architectures draw from different time periods, so as I play the game myself it feels like wander is going through multiple periods of time, but fighting the Gods of each civilization that still lives within the rubble.
That’s a crazy theory
We Hungarians descendants of Nimrod well know that what tribe is the vessel of the evil. They have 12 and destroying the world with mass human sacrifice nowadays, while we have 7 tribe ( 16- 1+6 is 7 ) and the language of ours bearing the the lost wisdom of life.
@@juanromero961 Not really but we need to investigate the other side of the coin.
@@neko3darcherychannel125 Care to elaborate? I'm interested in whatever it is you're getting at.
At the end of the game dormin mentions his body was split in 17 collosi. This means that wander has become a collosi himself. This also means that all the other 16 collosi where once human before and also did the sacrifice. I personaly think the humans created dormin by the sacrifices they performed to ressurect the dead.
I pretty much agree with everything you said except the dormin being completely evil. When emon Sacrificed mono for a curse probably relating to dormin it seemed more of emon being a somewhat villan for also sealing away a god into 16 fragments that a religious group were worshipping. Not to mention the fact that they call dormin an entity of light. He also kept his promise to revive mono and if you think about it the fragments of him the colossus were also alive as well. So we could say dormin is a god of giving life?! True wanders tribe might find it unethical but i dont see why he can be completely at fault.
Dormin could be the only non-evil antagonist in the trilogy. He is made up of both (in equal measure) Light and dark, symbollized by the two voices, the Light from the vital points and the dark tentacles/dark Colossus. Just like any "normal" person. While we see the Master of the valley as a blob of dark choking a light-ish core and the Queen is pretty much all dark (dychotomy with Yorda being all Light). Dormin is about as evil as Emon, i'd say. Hell, Emon is probably responsible for Mono's death while Dormin is responsible for her resurrection.. Though of course the consequences of all this is up for speculation
I don't even think Dormin is an antagonistic force at all in SotC, as he only ever guides Wander and warns him of the consequences of his actions. Seems like Emon is the only one that really makes an antagonist of himself, be it by irrational human taboos or the _(self-fulfilling)_ prophecy of a doomsayer
He isn't antogonistic at all. My theory is that the civilization that predates Wander tricked this being so they can control life and death. There's a reason why they built shrines and temples for him. The stone of healing is also powered by Dormin.
Hope you get to see this comment (spoilers for all games). Just some food for thought:
ICO:
- In the Queen's chest region, you can see some black streaks coming up from bellow, similar to old Wander's neck. I always assumed this indicated that the Queen is Dormin (female side) possessing a woman, instead of a follower using dark powers.
- In the first bridge scene (th-cam.com/video/rveXly3labg/w-d-xo.htmlm40s), if you pay attention to the Queen when she disappears, it really looks like Yorda's body, which would reinforce the thought that her extending her life by possessing her "daughter" is something that has happened multiple times.
SOTC:
- I always thought it was strange how Dormin said in the final colossus speech "the *ritual* is almost complete". And then Emon says "You used the forbidden *spell* as well". It almost sounds like the act of killing the colossi is literally how you bring someone's life back, instead of the assumed you killing colossi to resurrect Dormin who will then use their power to bring someone's life back. This ties well with the architecture around some of the colossi which look like made to imprison them or facilitate their murder (especially Malus, he's immobilized and there are essentially trenches made to approach him).
TLG:
- I never see this mentioned by anyone but, in the famous pool room, if you pay attention to the sarcophagus, the "lines" on it makes it look like it is divided in several parts. If you count them, you get 16. That can't be a coincidence.
So, why did they go through all the trouble of splitting and sealing Dormins soul if they could've just sealed him in that pool of water all along?
Didn't the sealing in the water pool lead to the sealing of the entire shrine and the destruction of the bridge as well? Maybe they wanted to remain able to access that land earlier on, for some reason, but now they had no other choice. Hm.
Shade maybe it could only be done when he took over Wander’s body
@@SurvivalSpheres Wasn't destruction of the bridge same as the sealing of the shrine? The birds could fly in and out - and Emon said those left behind might survive cursed lands - and not the tower? And if Mono could not escape, then the horned ones were born later outside the cursed lands=that kind of seal was somehow imperfect?
I don't think Dormin was sealed in the pool, I think he was more so destroyed by the light and that Dormin is somehow connected to the bridge, that's why it was destroyed with him and maybe when the tribe first sealed Dormin they decided to just seal him to make him suffer more and they thought no one would ever enter those lands so the bridge wouldn't be a problem. So when Emon realized they were wrong he decided it was safer to destroy Dormin with the bridge.
Maybe they didn't want to sacrifice the sword unless they had to?
The sword might have been what was used to "cut" Dormins souls into 16 pieces in the first place and sacrificing it was considered a last resort in the event that they didn't have the strength or numbers to overpower him a second time.
With the sword gone, the tribe lost it's primary means of defense against other threats. It was probably an unimaginably powerful artifact as it was intrinsically linked to the soul of Dormin, a god.
Extremely well done. To this day, this game remains my absolute all time favorite and I'm always open to people's theories about the world. Subbed and will definitely watch all your other content.
Not to nit pick... but as 'Wander' is pronounced 'Wanda' in Japanese, ICO is pronounced 'ee-co not 'I-co' ; )
Woah, a bit late to comment don't you think? +
Ico still sounds better.
@M O L E Y M O L E LOL I saw that video too!! theorizing about the big secrets. Nomad Colossus did a splendous job.
Yes sir. You are correct. Thank you. :P
This is the definition of a nit pick, though.
Given the treatment of both the horned children as well as Trico's species, as well as the realization that they are not harmful by nature, I have some contention with the conclusion that Dormin is necessarily evil. Perhaps not good, but not outright evil. Even so, we are not given much context to what's transpired in the past aside from information given in this video. I suppose the fears about anything horned have to come from somewhere. To me it just feels unlikely that these games would paint such a cliche picture of what evil is supposed to be, when the rest does little to follow common tropes. Between the three titles, personally, I find it to be a criticism of superstition and religious fanaticism.
Bloody Heartland i agree with you about dormin, he wasnt really EVIL. Technically he was the antagonist because it was him who was split into the colossi and we were fighting those pieces of him. but at the same time wander agreed to doing it after dormin warns him that he will "pay a heavy price" if he does. And in the end dormin keeps his promise too
Bloody Heartland SotC plays with your morality:
Wander, a boy that wanted to revive Mono and doesn't care about the price.
Mono, a girl sacrificed because she had a cursed fate and was probably killed by Emon's religion in their village.
Emon, a shaman that knows the story of Dormin, is the supposed leader of religion.
He kills an innocent girl, because of a prophecy. Morally ambiguous at best. Some would say undeniably evil.
He orders the murder of a defenseless boy. He can call it a mercy-killing all he wants, Wander wasn't hurting anyone at the time, and certainly had the will to live. Morally ambiguous at best.
Dormin, a deity that can control life , seen as evil by their horns and sealed because of the fear the people had (betrayed posibly).
I don't see Dormin as evil. Powerful, dangerous, yes. But we never see him do anything morally reprehensible.
He attacks Emon and the soldiers, but they are trying to seal him away, as their ancestors did once before.
He possesses the Wander but he does say that he is "borrowing" his body, so he was probably going to give it back, even if he hadn't been sealed.
The killing of the colossi gradually destroy the wanderer's body, but he did tell him ahead of time that what he was about to do might cost him dearly.
He promises to revive Mono once his power has been restored, and does so, even as he is sealed away again.
He has a lot of negative imagery connected to him, but when you see the top of the hole from which Dormin spoke, there is a beautiful "Garden of Eden", more full of life than anywhere else in the forbidden lands.
I think Dormin is someone who gained more power than his peers could accept, and sealed away in fear.
It's optimistic at best if he was sacrificing people to prolong his empire.
Thing is, Dormin kept his end of the bargain, if he/she/it/fuckifidknowitsashadowgiantthing really was as evil as this video claims, why the fuck would he bother fulfilling his end of the bargain.
If he set it up so that the “ritual” to revive Mono was continuously progressing as he reclaimed more parts of himself, then why bother? If he decided to revive Mono when he was being sealed away, again why bother?
@@Lh0000 The problem is that we DON'T actually know that Dormin kept his end of the bargain. Yeah, Mono was revived, but it's never implied that Dormin is actually the one who did it; In fact, the implication goes the *opposite* way since by the time Mono woke up, Dormin was already sucked into the temple pool after Emon tossed the Ancient Sword into it. It's highly unlikely he actually used his power to revive Mono after being sealed away like that, since 1) if Dormin really did intend to keep his bargain, he could've revived Mono the moment he possessed Wander's body, and 2) if Dormin really could influence people after being sealed like that, there's no reason for him to be trapped in the pool after being sucked in by the Ancient Sword.
I never knew how enjoyable it is to just ride a horse through lost lands...this game was amazing
Such an incredible analysis in such short time ... Fabulous. Thank you for your efforts, thanks for sharing.
I love this game with a passion and you just blew my mind.
That's what I do: blow people's minds. ;)
I've gotta say: you have made the best Shadow of the Colossus plot analyses that I have watched on TH-cam. *Perhaps* even better than that huge plot discussion FAQ that you mentioned in the video (I mean the one on GameFAQs - I haven't read the huge “search for the last secret” forum thread).
A well deserved subscribe from me. I'm going to check out your stuff and see what else you can do. :)
I really enjoyed your theory about the Colossi Bodies, it makes so much sense!
So what you're saying is:
Boy breaks the rules to save a girl prophesied to end the world. He and she do it forbidden style with a 20 - 30 age gap, and Mono gives birth to a generation of kids, who are eventually adopted by the same tribe that forsook Wander?
You're honestly implying Dormin is evil, too? I don't buy that, for many reasons:
Dormin is the motherfucking "God of Death," and not only did this creature WARN Wander that there would be a price to pay[Instead of grandstanding, insinuating his power was more than enough] that Dormin might actually be able to fulfill his request, but every implication you made contradicts Dormin being evil. In fact, he could be the good guy, and not malicious at all.
Dorman gave notice. He asked Wander to pay for the service, and he revived Mono. Seems like a fair Trade-Off, aye?
Dorman, if he were 'Evil,' shouldn't have to ask Wander to unshackle Dormin's power.... Dormin at any point could've STOLEN the person's vessel. Dormin did not possess him, nor lie about the deal. The price for a LIFE? Another life.
The consequences Dormin warned him about? Wander's Lifeforce was being drained. His light was dying out, from possessing Dormin's DARKNESS. Dormin, stated to be a being of "Light" was not without a dark side, as stated.
And there's evidence Dormin was NEVER the villain, considering he never lied. He did indeed say "Borrow" when he took Wander. The only promise he couldn't make, as they both fell. Dormin is the God of Death, and only took Wander once he'd died, making Dormin a Life-Giving deity, and therefore good.
Emon dresses similarly to Wander... or rather, it's implied Wander dresses like Emon. Like Master and Apprentice. Like Wander was on his way to becoming a Shaman. And in fact, Wander's training to become a Shamon is probably the reason he knew about the place, and knew about that specific weapon's importance in the forbidden lands. It's because he was taught that lore.
Emon was likely Wander's Mentor. That explains how informal and familiar Emon seems to be. They knew one another as friends. And assuming one religion wanted to destroy another religion, it makes sense for Emon to want to extinguish Dormin's relevance in history. If Dormin is gone, that religion no longer exists to destroy the tribe. When Emon arrived, Wander was paying the price he KNEW he was going to pay, and he was mostly Zombie-Like. Wander looked wretched and mainly weak. Wander no longer had time to live, and Emon's last favor was to perform a ritual, purging the darkness from Wander. Wander died, and at the same time, he was born once again as a baby. It's because Wander lost his life, and his very being as an adult and grown character that Mono could wake up from the dead.
Lastly. Mono, again, prophesied to doom the entire tribe, was sacrificed to save the tribe from some 'fate,' most likely being Dormin. And if this is true, Emon is *THE* main villain. He's the reason Mono is dead, and the reason Wander needs to resurrect her from death... negotiating with the "Lord of Death," a being who can do the impossible, and bring dead people back.
Emon perpetuated the entire story. Emon killed Mono in the name of a prophecy he likely misread. Emon is also the reason ICO Happens... because if he didn't kill Mono, then Wander wouldn't become Dormin-- Dormin wouldn't give rise to forbidden children.
I dont think Emon is evil. He sees Dormin as evil and is frustrated with wander but him hoping that they atone for their actions one day puts him in the same light as dormin. Doing what he needs to do. Except dormin is doing it for himself and Emon is doing it for maybe what he believes is correct?
its crazy how deep this story can be but we will never truly know the answers :(
I see it the same way. Emon has to be Wander’s friend ( aka Shaman) but he was blinded by his religion, so he sacrificed Mono ( she was predicted to awake Dormin) in order to finally kill every possible way to awake the other religion (Dormin religion)
At least I understood it this way...
there is definitely not a 20 or 30 year age gap between Wander and Mono. She could easily be around 15 years old.
hum.. The devil doesn't lie! The devil always speaks the truth;
who lies is the man! Because man does not know how to deal with the tension of light and darkness;
The devil is that creature that fulfills your wishes;
The problem is not the devil, but how you formulate your desire.
Man has no power over prophecies. The proof of this is that Wander for discrediting the prophecy, and Emon for trying to avoid the prophecy (by killing the girl) contributed to the fulfillment of the prophecy. In the same way that happened with Edipo Rei, when he tried hard to undo the prophecy. But it ended up being the vehicle for the realization.
That "light" you see in Dormin is because the devil is part of the conscience of God; but at the same time, God and the devil are not the same.
Such a good video! Great job man :)
This was so great! Thank you!
I never realised that the horns came from the wanderer's lineace. That really makes a lot of sense, to the point where I wonder how I hadn't thought of that before.
Anyway, I must admit I've yet to play this game, and it'll probably be a while before I do. And yet I do like it, since it seems to be a very artistic game without being pretentious about it. I always love to see something as bold as SotC, genuinely pushing the boundaries and doing something few others have done before, if anyone. Normally downtime also bothers me because I have serious attention issues, but the beautiful landscapes and time to think about all that goes down as you play seem to make it more than worth it. I suppose that's a good way to define a game as great, actually: it doesn't get boring even during its "low" points. As in the moments outside of the main attraction you came for.
Maybe you played it or maybe you don't. But let me tell you about this game. It's from 2005 and the first time I played it, It was wonderful for the ps2, displaying such beautiful graphics and power. The thing about SotC is, at first, learning how to kill every colossi; At first I used to spend even an hour mostly because of the majesty of each of them; their movements and animations, the motives of their existance, even how I felt when killing them (I felt bad, they look adorable). Then, is about filling up your stamina in order to climb whatever you want without any limitation imposed by the game (playing the game 4 times is enough). And finally to get all secrets like hidden places, all the coins and fruits, etc. In the latter you'll find yourself exploring thoroughly a wonderful, extensive world.
I should play this again sometime.
It's free now on ps4 plus
Thanks for the video, just finished the game and been looking for some clarity to love my mind back together after the power of this game haha.
This is the best video about this topic I've ever seen. Nive job
Thanks very much, homie! :D
this actually helped me a lot!
Thank you so much for this video! 💙
Excellent video. Explains a lot as i only just finished it for the first time.
Wait so she raised him and had his children?
Yeah that's what I was thinking
She probably did. Either she knew it was Wander reborn or Wander somehow got his memories back.
Nimrod married his own mother
One of many reasons this legit gaming masterpiece does not let you go as soon as the credits are over.
Daniel Guerra fuuuuck
if SOTC and the last guardian really is related and prequel to ICO
then it would make sense if dormin revive mono in the first place.
in the ICO the villain of the series is look pretty similar with mono. bright white body skin and long dark hair, also the queen possess shadow power just like dormin and had device that control light power to operate system in her castle just like what Master of the valley do in The Last Guardian.
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le me begin with my own speculation with these three games combine.
starting in the shadow of colossus where wander try to ressurect mono because of the mistake made by amon that might be wander master because of vision he had that mono had cursed fate which will bring back dormin back to the world. but ironicly its became the reason why wander seek for dormin in the first place, to ressurect mono.
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many people speculating that dormin is not evil because he/she already warned wander with the heavy price he had to pay. in this case everybody tricked to think that dormin is more like neutral god or even actual protagonist of the story that make amon look bad because of his "mistake". but u have to understand that dormin is not like plain 7 year old child. he is godly spiritual being that can manipulate life and death, of course his mind and the way he thinking is exceed way beyond human could. so when he warn wander he already knew that wonder wouldn't care because in wonder minds at the momment is just finding way to revive the one he love. its like misleading player to think dormin was good, like a true trickster. of course trickster wouldn't be so obvious like most movie villain that trick the protagonist which obvious command that most of viewer will find out that is actually a trap. in this case dormin was good n see it comming and making wander action is purely because his own will and not because of dormin.
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later in late game, when wonder kill the last colossus. amon arrive and said that his action is completely wrong by letting dormin ressurected. in this cut scene dormin said that he only borrowed wander body, so in my speculation that dormin only using wander body to do other thing. not using it as vessels of his ressurection, because if he does, he wouldn't say something like borrowing since dormin seems like didnt using his actual power that feared by amon and his follower instead he wonder seems had controll over his body in the last scene and then he died n reborn as a baby with a horn burden with another cursed fate as amon said if he survive, he hope wander aton his sins.
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later after that mono his ressurected n back to life, but this is why it would be make sense when dormin ressurect her.
it continues to ICO, (spiritually) sequel to SOTC. after being ressurected, mono live long enough only to be suffer n corrupted by the power of dormin and then become the queen (there is possibility that overtime, dormin take over her body due to personality change)
, the villain of the series who then continue the old tradition to sacrafice people to use the light and shadow as a power. but in this series that the queen (that strongly considered as mono) still has consciousness and no sign of something (dormin) take controll over her action. well at least inderectly. i belive dormins is just spritiual being that trick mortal to do certain action like sacraficing people in order to archive power like what the whole series told us. they sacrafice people and split into two different entitie, light and shadow. people then use the light as a source of their power in their civilization but they didnt quite use the shadow part for their source of power that later they just contain it in vessels like knight statue in the last guardian or ICO so then in the story it being controlled as a guard or minion for Master of the valley or the queen.
all this action benefit dormin. here is another theory of mine since they didn't quite explain what is dormin n what is his power, but i belive his power comes from the very bad side of human. the shadow part. this make sense since dormin weakness is light it self, and he already weakened after amon or maybe his anchestor sealed him way before.
to fully ressurected he need to find way to regain his power, what is it? the dark side of human soul, the shadow. thats why he carefully plan all his move by taking advantage of wander tragic tragedy by using his wander to slay 16 different piece of his souls so he can at least ressurect mono and corrupt her through time n trick her to help him regain his power by spliting human souls into light and shadow, consuming the shadow and using the light as a cleaver bait for human.
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in the ICO , the queen (might be mono) is dying and want to take over the body of her daughter to continue her life. she also covered in shadow and only using shadow power, but has control over light source through device like master of the valley in the last of guardian as system for her castle. the queen seems like really old like maybe hundred or thousand year old, so why dormin not ressurected yet? because for godly spritual being that being weakened like dormin, he need time to recover and regain his power, thats why he use mono instead of wander because he still to weak back then. like in classical story when the godly evil being need time and effort to gain power through long process, this is what excatly dormin doing. and yet he still recovering after ICO series i belive.
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this is other speculation that Shadow of the collosus was actually the first origin of the story, not The Last guardian. since in The Last Guardian, the main villain is The Master of the Valley which seem like device that being controlled by the queen in ICO. so i belive master of the valley is just another device that still operate even after the dead of its operator. this make sense since in the last guardian, the architecture already ruined. it maybe secret military place that being develop by dormin follower to stregthen their military force that left untouch after amon and his follower sealed dormin and ending his cult and keep the place secret for long times. this also why in the last guardian there is no human, because there is no one who can rule and guide em. so only his last follower that slowly decrease through time because their resource is human it self. so the point of the facility is just for military n research purpose and another power source for dormin that later lost control after the disapperence of dormin.
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i belive what happen in The last guardian and ICO is after the event happening in shadow of the colossus. i belive that spiritual being like dormins can continue his will to be resurected after the even in shadow of the colossus by using mono as his pawns. this all statement came from one word in the final cut scene of shadow of the colossus when dormin said "we have borrowed the body of this warrior...." leaving such incredible evil plan that even sets some player thinking that Dormin was a protagonist. he trick his follower to use light power so he can consume the shadow. thats make sense with such barbaric sacrafice tradition that long lasting in the series and soon stopped by amon.
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it all happen because of dormin.
for it doesnt make sense if the last guardian was the first one, because master of the valley just feels like a machine instead of spiritual being like dormin that has consciousness. and the word "master" is being said by narrator which is protagonist point of view.
at least the last guardiang sets in the same period of time in other place that still had influence by dormin or after short period of time when dormin being sealed by amon, before shadow of the colossus but not the reason the main reason why dormin exist.
why dormin reffered him self as "we" not "I"
because what the nature of dormin that he might be the exist because of dark side of humanity that slowly giving power and form. so its existance came from from many source and form that slowly become one entities, dormin. so he reffer him self "we" because of it's origin.
well its just another part of stupid theory of mine. just like classic story of evil being that exist because of darkside of human.
I don't think Dormin is an inherently evil being. That seems way too simple and easy for a game like this. They tell Wander that it's against the rules of mortals to bring back the dead, and proceeds to warn Wander that there will be a terrible price. They're vague, but they are telling the objective truth to Wander. Wander basically says, "I don't care", and then the bargain is struck. At no point does Dormin lie and try to seduce Wander into some Faustian deal. The closest he comes to that, is saying, "it may be possible". Dormin is/are clearly a more complex and morally ambiguous entity. We have no concrete moral frame of reference in this game. We don't know why Dormin is considered bad, and we do know that Emon's tribe who oppose him perform ritualistic human sacrifice. It's entirely he said she said. Dormin has a frightening appearance, but when they are reborn with Wander, it's almost like how Christ was born surrounded by animals. Why would gentle animals like deer and doves gather round the birth of some demonic anti-Christ entity? We know from Ico that the horned boys not evil, and are wrongly persecuted and sacrificed. There isn't really any sort of neat and tidy answer here. For all we know, Emon and his tribe could be terrible people like the people behind the absolutely shambolic Salem witch trials. This needs more examination.
Great explanation
Back when the ps3 version released i was sooo obsessed with the lore and world Ueda and team Ico created after beating them. I found old ass IGN interview from 2006 (conversation between journalists i believe) where they talk all about this. They hit the same points through a step by step deduction. It was so in depth that i think this 'agreed-on theory' between the team ico games stems from that article. Im so glad someone put the info in video format.
One thing i think i disagree on though is that i honestly dont think Dormin was evil. Powerful yes, probably arrogant too (what with being the center of worship). But the reason i dont think dormin is evil is because at the start of the game he/she/it warns wander that the price will be heavy in order to save mono. If dormin was evil he would have been way more duplicitous. On top of that he kept his promise at the very end. I think dormin is more of a neutral force or like a force of nature like a hurricane or volcano. Im sure it took sacrifices too but i still dont think that made him evil in that world either what with mono being sacrificed in the "new" tribe she was a part of. So sacrifice is just a regular thing. My personal theory on the dormin aspect is that the worshippers just wanted to be free from it for freedom's sake and because they were scared of it. Like a coup d'etat against a king or pharaoh the people wanted one thing and Dormin another so they sealed him away
Wander Tasogare 7 It is also ironic that it was Mono’s being sacrificed that set into motion the entire game, so in a way, Emon was responsible for her cursed fate and the tragic ending. Not to mention the repercussions that it would have on all of the horned boys who were born generations later. It was a classic example of a self-fulfilling prophecy :/ And I totally agree that Dormin at least held true to his end of the bargain and revived Mono, though there are speculation that it was just the female part of Dormin that now possesses her body, which just makes it even more depressing for Wanda.
J Prez ohhh yea, i forgot about that lol. It's because the female voice disappears by the end of the game. Now this is just me but Personally I'm not too sure about that. Because then the game would be TOO closely tied to Ico. Like, storytelling-wise its kinda over kill to me to connect it so directly as to have main characters from Ico just be in other games. Is sort of goes against Uedas method of Design by subtraction too because its the over complication of plot amd what was given to us. Like how people had the theory of the boy from Last guardian being emon from shadows. It think this is more casual fan speculations.
My view on the voice is that since Dormin was fractured into differemt pieces when we first meet him, they made the sound design choice to show how fractured he was through his voice too. And the more colossi you kill the more complete he was becoming making his voice gradually more whole, until his voice was back to its terrifyingly normal self lol
Wander Tasogare 7 connecting the two would be great. I just need to play ico now and the last guardian to get the whole picture
Everyone here is actually neutral. For what I think is that dormin wanted revival mainly to take revenge upon lord emon. And lord emon probably feared dormin because he was a powerful dark god.
I think both of them just wanted "Ruling" power
Great explanation!
This game’s message at least for me was that power of love is greater than any being.
My friend said that the message of SotC was that holding onto past is destructive.
I feel this game has the perfect example of show don’t tell and let the person interpret their own thoughts about the story.
Only just started getting into these games but the fan theories of how the the three games are connected is what makes them so fun
I found and interesting theory as to how Dormin revived Mono, you know how Dormin has a male and female voice when he talks at the same time? Well as soon as Dormin takes control of wonder, he only has the male voice after that point. That also leads to the possibility that Mono became the Queen in ico.
You are right. This theory is not new. Big fans take it as fact.
Very good explanation! Mercy!
Great vid mate
Amazing video!!
Shadow of the colossus is more than just a game it's a spirutal meditation bro i really feel that i cant actually describe how does this game makes me feel it's just amazing, great job!
So Mono, after raising Wander, fucked? Oh my..
I was wondering the same thing...
I thought I heard Mono say Wander's name in one of the loading scenes after killing a Colossus
I always hear it too. I wonder if she was trying to communicate with him as he was doing all this
Pretty sure she's saying stop
I just finished it and still I don't know what she says
Most underrated TH-camr
Most underrated comment.
You guys are making me blush
You could make a religion out of this
*no dont*
I left this video even more confused than when I originally came looking for answers.
Same lol this shit is deep, i just passed sotc, am really confused but feeling lots of mixed emotion, it's good and I'm glad it's way deeper than what is seen on the surface.
Awesome video :)
Underrated video.
This game was one of the first games I bought for ps4 . I had never heard of it and god were the controls clunky. But damn the way the story is told is amazing. I loved it so much that I platinumed the game. Not only that but I am now currently play ico( idk why this game didn’t get a ps4 re release ) and the last guardian just so I can get more immersed in this universe
I would have kept watching But I wanted to avoid spoilers. Anyways you got me more than intrigued , you’re an incredible story teller thanks for sharing . I will be playing this at some point sooner than later
I always assumed the girl was his sister. I don't know why, I just liked that dynamic better.
What you described in the first 30 seconds was literally me back in 2018, when a friend bought me the remaster as a birthday present.
Incredible breakdown of the game
Woooaaahh! How did you explain something marvelous about this game??!
Great video
Very interesting! 👍
I'm so lucky that I get to experience SOTC for the first time on the PS4. I've heard much praise about the game and judging by the gameplay I was immediately invested. I pre-ordered it and just finished it today. Incredible game, one of my favorite ever, but the ending still left me feeling empty. I thought that after all that Wander went through, he'd be reunited with his true love, but apparently not... :(
Oh don’t be down he is with his lover.
This video is phenomenal.
What I don’t understand is if they could do the thing with the sword and the pool at the end to stop Dormin, then... why didn’t they do that all along to begin with?
i always hated getting lost when i couldn't find out where a colossus was at. there was SO much world and exploring it was nice but it always struck me as eerie how empty it was, making me wish there was anything to fight or just interact with. regardless i appreciate what the game was, especially those long solemn journeys to find the next colossus. definitely something i had to learn to appreciate though, and I've come to enjoy those moments of downtime when traveling in games probably thanks to this game. definitely a turning point in gaming for me.
I think the colossi are golems, beings made of clay, in this case it is made of earth and anything else on the ground. They are a shell, a vessel, to hold a piece of Dormin.
Amazing!
My dad played this when I was a kid, so luckily I have nostalgia for it
So if you've done The Last Guardian and SotC, any chance we might see an Ico retrospective?
A1 review/breakdown
Dormin sounds similar to the spanish verb "dormir" (to sleep) which would suit a sleeping or resting deity, gathering the strength to wake up.
FYI - nobody mentioned that The SHIELD(the last guardian) AND THE SWORD (shadow
of the colossus) belong to a LIGHT warrior that lived eons ago , and
that will be the next game of the story of the LIGHT warrior that will
fight against the DARK GOD.
very nice interpretation, does make alot of sense when you think about it. I actually haven't seen much of ICO so I have no idea what happens in that, but I am exptremely curious as to why the shadow beings want to capture the girl, I would guess with only that much information that in ICO the balance of Light or Dark is shifted in the favour of Dark after the events of Shadow Of the Collosus, and the girl threatens to break the reign of darkness. I will have to go watch an LP of ICO to see if that holds any weight
this game is my therapy and it will always be
Dormin could be using the *royal we*, like kings and queens used to do. Basically, he, as the god he is, is far greater than to refer to himself in the singular number, so he uses "we". Had he more dialogue, I'm sure he'd used "us, our, ours, and ourselves" too. Also, the use of "Thou" when addressing Lord Emon could be used to diminish him, "Thou" is seen as disrespectful. 'Tis the old, "I am god, you are human" thing.
It could also be Dormin was using "we" in a literal form as well. Dormin started off talking in both the male and female voices and ended with the male voice in Wander. It could be possible that Dormin possessed both Wander and Mono, seperating Dormins two halves into separate bodies. It would be tragic and poetic if Dormin was hoping to break the seal on themselves in order to see their other half again, but before they could do it they ended up sealing the male Dormin again before it could be realized. It's poetic/tragic because its the same fate that Wander/Mono suffered as well. Before Wander could see his love revived, he was sealed and turned into an infant.
But yeah, im a fan of thinking Dormin is actually two souls hoping to see each other again through Wander/Mono.
Your voice is so relaxing
Couldn't agree more. Great video.
In Japanese "emono" means specialized skill or weapon, and it also means spoils, or trophy. Emon might a shortened version of emono.
I remember begging my mom to buy me this when I was 11, and I'm so happy she did, my father was a huge Ico fan but it was such a difficult game, with very little direction even though it was a masterpiece... he stopped playing by the time this came out and it hurts my soul that he never did
honestly this was the first time i played this game took me a day to beat (if you take out the parts where i was killing lizards for their tails) and the story what somewhat revealed as i continued to play the game but i what didnt expect is that this game is basically the beginning of two other games connected to it i am at a loss for words and still trying to hold back tears from the ending of the game all he wanted was for her to be brought back to life and the price is that he will have to start his whole life over from the stage of an infant with no memories of who he was or the great feats he accomplished this game and story are a 10/10 for me best game i have played ever
It's curious how Dormin speaks from the hole in the Garden and we see light shining through. It's as if he's the light.
I do think he's evil because he possessed Wander before he ever got to see Mono alive, but this adds an interesting facet.
Did anyone other than me notice that in the chapter: "Who is/are Dormin?" that when the boy from ICO stabbed the antagonist with a sword, his robe looked strikingly familiar to Lord Emon's robe?
Just a heads up for newcomers on SotC. If you've become interested in the world and lore, I'd also recommend checking out the 17th colossus myth and 'investigations'. Back when I got the game for PS2, I remember spending so much time on the forums reading about it, and even now, with the addition of the new collectible in the remake and Dormin's Sword, I still have my hopes up for any trace of a new secret.
You can also find one of the barrels that you feed to the creature in the last guardian in the remastered version of shadow of the colossus in a cave so it is the same universe
That's an outstanding analysis. Never got to finish ICO back in the day. Can you explain the connection again? How do you think Mono and (baby) Wander end up escaping the valley the eventually trigger the events of ICO? Are you saying that Wander gets together with Mono when he grows up? :)
Glad I’m watching this AFTER I beat the game. I had soooo many questions throughout and especially at the end of the game. Not much at all was ever explained, but hell the ost were godly so I can’t say I care that much lol I’m lying I do care
Bruh, please never start a sentence with “my fellow gamers”.
My favourite game of all time
Remember Dormin's quote, Souls that are once lost
cannot be reclaimed…
Is that not the law of mortals?
Nobody gonna talk about how the dead lady 'procreated a lineage' with the horned infant boy.
She is imortal, he would grow up in a matter of days and gain his memories back when his body returned to its original state, it isn't wired as you'd think because she didn't raise him she just kept him alive, now the lineage is simaler to both their parents unnaturally long lives like the mother and the curse of their father this would mean that they would basically have a happy family as a normal family unit until wander finds a way out of the valley and with other humans so their is no incest. The longer you live changes some rules.
I always thought ICO and shadow of the colossus succeeded because of how it let you make your own assumptions. It made you wonder where did all the people go in that huge castle, the windmill in ICO felt special, how long have they been sealing away horned kids and why? The question in your own head made this great. Love this game so much.
It is obvious this game and The Last Guardian are connected. For example the tribe who’s ideals and morals were abandoned is most likely the group that trades sacrifices for the light goop, and that the connection that Dormin is most likely the deity that traded light goop for sacrifices or is in some way connected. Using these theories combed with each other can fill in a lot of gaps and makes understanding everything easier
I always wanted to play this game, it's free on psn and now I finally get my chance. ...happy days
Nice video
Now that SotC got a little touch up with the details, can team ice do that for Ico
Does anyone remember the poster for SOTC back in the day where it said “how far will you go for love?”
To be fair, there are many forms of love
@@dominikblack8943 i agree! I think it was just a really interesting quote for the game.
@@caelestis5113 legit. Gotta say this was my favorite game as a kid. Sadly I've moved on to xbox so I won't be able to play it again
I played SOTC & Ico when they were released on PS2. I took Wander as Ico being reborn, raised by the women that he loved & sacrificed himself for; Only to end up having another star-crossed love interest
Nice video but I have to disagree on point no 4 where you theorize that every being has both light and dark sides.
During the first cut scene where lord Emon speaks he mentions that place began from the resonance of intersecting points which means the central shrine is connected to all the colossi which in turn means that the colossi are connected to Dormin.
He also mentions that memories are replaced and etched into stone and those are the stone statues of the colossi themselves and lastly mentioning about the one that can control beings made from light.
So here is my theory,
a) Since Dormin is able to control beings made from light, in the beginning he/she was not evil. When Dormin turned to dark side the people like lord Emon severed Dormin's essence into 16 segments and placed them inside the colossi and locked his/her memories inside the stone statues.
b) The only way for Dormin to regain his abilities and memories is by defeating the colossi.
So colossi are vessels created from light in order to seal Dormin's dark powers.
That is why when Wander defeats each colossus the black essence of Dormin takes hold of Wander in order to be teleported to the Shrine of Worship along with him. When Wander returns to the Shrine the idol blows up releasing Dormin's memories.
Also when defeating each colossus there appears a light beam in its location signifying the being made from light is no more and there are also white Doves in the shrine representing the no of fallen colossi.
In short colossi are vessels containing Dormin's evil essence that can be released only by the magical light sword. After separating Dormin into 16 segments all the people moved to a different place.
I just now finished playing this game on ps4 for the first time and it was awesome! I grew up with out video games :\
I don't think it is as easy as good and evil. if we say dormin evil, why did he revive mano? most likely dormin is just a powerful creature who has different purpose and moral values than human. eg. they could see human as food. similar to human see cow as food
Wow so interesting
From i've been able to piece together is that.....Emon was the one that sealed Dormin away with the sword that Wander Uses in the game, But years later Emon Got paranoid about Dormin's return and he had a vision while Meditating/Praying about a woman who was engulfed in a black aura (A.k.a Mono) quickly without thinking about what it could mean he sacrifices Mono but in doing so enraging his Apprentice (A.k.a Wander) about the death of his lover and the betrayal of his master (A.k.a Why he was able to get the sword since he was a trusted member of the tribe) in doing so he triggering the events of Shadow of the Colossus.
I think the game is set 100 years after the Demise of Babylon. When it was abandoned.