when I was little I thought that since my dad's welder apparently created metal out of thin air, we would never run out of metal in the world. I told him about my discovery, he laughed and showed me the big spool of wire inside the welder. also taught me about the electrical circuit and the wire feeding through :) you learn a lot if your family's trade is cars
I though oxyacetylene welding was cheaper than metal arc welding as a wee lad and inisited my father use it instead to save on power bills not knowing that special air in a big can was waaay more expensive.
I'm so happy that you took the effort of getting the older welder to run, it was worth it. btw. Zach is a legend and the most valuable asset Donut has, just saying.
AGREED! Most knowledgeable and hands on member of the team by far. Not to take away from all of the other guys who all have their qualities. Great team altogether.
One of the many things I love about your channel is your integrity and commitment. You didn't just give up on the old welder or even "upgrade it" to a slightly less old one. No, you went through the time and trouble to make it work right and I for one appreciate your dedication. Keep up the good work!
Just as a note for most people looking into getting into welding, that multi process Miller they used is very high end for most at home/day to day use. There are others that are over 4x cheaper and will do just as good a job, especially if you look at welders that go up to around 240-280v.
@@The_Slavstralian I'm actually looking into buying a Vulcan Omnipro 220, they're just under $1.2K and made by a guy who used to be a designer for Lincoln.
@@Tubeyou2343hhsgyou obviously have no knowledge on welders or anything at all to judge something that you’ve probably never used. Lincoln lasted me over 8 years and it’s still going strong
Totally agree, had the settings on the older welder been adjusted properly it would have sounded more like the newer one. That said technology has definitely simplified the process. The auto set feature is very impressive.
One thing to remember is that MIG Welding came about as a way to produce M4 tanks faster for the US Army in WW2. Before that, Stick Welding (Shield Metal Arc Welding) was the go to for all welding process. Stick Welding (SMAW) is a slow, rather skill intensive process as there are a number of factors you are needing to pay attention to while welding to lay a good bead, and in a time like WW2 where really every second counted, they didn't have the time to waste to train people to stick weld, so they needed a faster process that could be learned much quicker so the average citizen could pick-up the skill and contribute in the factories. So while the machine you had was 50 years old, the MIG process has been around for 80 years, meaning they already had 30 years of knowledge going that old machine. It may have been large and clunky, but the foundation was solid so it's not surprising with a bit of tweaking it would work just as well and delivered a weld that was just a good.
Yeah im at a techical colege ( diesel mac course) and we did gas welding(oxy acetylene) and stick welding its alot easier if you learn with a stick welder because its very skill intensive
GMAW has been around for 100 years now, but they didn’t start using shielding gas until 1948. It wasn’t really economical to weld with GMAW till the 1950’s because that’s when they figured out they could add CO2 to the gas mixture. SMAW isn’t that hard honestly especially with a fixed shade helmet.
@@andrewhawkes6478 ye solid wire u suppose to push, for peno reason and for overhead welding and vertical up, flux core is basically is the easiest one which can be pushed or pulled but not as good for vertical up or overhead so imo for what they do, I think flux core is best for car works just because u can get a consistency with peno and welds look a lot cleaner
Also you didnt say what gas you were using. If you were using 75/25 [co2 and argon ] that runs hotter and more spatter. Strait co2 runs colder and less spatter. The older welder you need to be a welder to understant how it works and how to adjust it. Like the new one anybody that can read can set it up but you did the comparison well just wonder if the new welder will still work as well after 50 years
This was actually pretty interesting, and while your single vs three phase explanations were mostly correct, most three phase stuff uses nowhere near 100 amps- if it’s actually the same size in KW as your single phase thing, it actually uses less current to do the same work
is it ever an option to just supply a single phase to a welder that has a three phase power input? wouldn't it have registered as a full stop when there are four open power connections?
@@dubmob151 no, a three phase appliance needs three phase You can actually cause major damage to equipment doing that especially if it has a motor supplying it with only one or two phases However most older equipment has nothing to stop it trying to work when it only has one or two phases connected, as shown in the video where the welder worked a little but but really terribly If that was a motor it would just sit there humming till the varnish melts off the windings and the motor is screwed
@@dubmob151 I wouldn’t be surprised if there are single/ three phase welding machines, but I’m a sparky not a welder so dont know too much about different types
Amperage: for three phase multiply by three for equivalent power, i.e. the 30 amp three phase = 90 amp single phase. For home use you don't even want to think of going near 3 phase. Even business. One of my businesses uses three phase and we have a generator because it was going to cost over $175,000 to get that power run to the site.
@@anvilsvs lol that's not how 3 phase works.. assuming you have a power factor of 0.99 then 30a of 3 phase at 400v would actually be 86a at 240v. but again that is assuming your appliance has a insanely good power factor otherwise
First of all, the new facial front is kicking. And second, I’m amazed both of those welders did so well! My grandfather was a welder for 40 years of his life and to know that’s what kind of equipment he used is mind blowing! I did also get him a brand new welding helmet and he has loved it. Definitely treat yourself to one if you haven’t already!
23y qualified heavy welder here to say thanks for trying to spark interest in the trades. I will say there are a lot of variables unaccounted for between the two machines, not to mention operator skill. Old units have character and are quarky due to long service in a specific range, and can take a set(like a spring can.) That said, when they get into the range they are conditioned to, they work. I encourage folks to take formal training, as it is more educational than OJT.
Exactly. Older welders will lose the nob accuracy and you’ll have to adjust it through trial and error I was using an older welder that was running 135 amps on the nob but only felt like 85-90 based on how it was keyholing the root bevels. And vice versa, I’ve had them where the nob said 40 but it was keyholing like it was 120amps
@mind games It's apples to oranges really. My og comment was about their comparison vid. As we all know, Time is Money. That said, I agree that if you own a business, and are in a position to invest like that, do it! However, I believe their vid was about buying a unit for your own non-commercial use. Hobbyists usually want to drop coin on parts/kits. Let's face it, arc time is small when compared to the whole job. Either way, you can't go wrong. Who doesn't want primo tools!
the digital screen has to age pretty quickly, but in generally it should be fairly reliable. It would still be extraordinary if it still works 50yrs later
The old welder while it had a mig addon was originaly an arc welder that welded with welding sticks and the hand fed mig attachment meant that it was for long distance welding usually a setup like that would of been to weld thick steel for say beams or thick sheet steel on heavy equipment or ships not really an apples to apples comparison you could get older mig welders with the wire housed in the unit itself fed through the cable similar to the newer model you have. The automatic sensing weld system seems nice so long as it works and doesn't go jank on you for welds that you really want to trust life or death for example Id still stick with manual settings.
Most older welders are just big power sources that could be converted to whatever, get the right stuff and its a tig welder if its a constant current, used to convert one old ass welding machine into tig, mig, stick, and flux core depending on what that day called for
Spool guns are also used for Aluminum mig welding. They still make spool guns for both doing Aluminum and for using long leads. My boss just bought a Miller spool gun and that joker costs about $700 or so
Hey I'm a professional welder my self and I have to say The problem with the weld profile for the new at 11:31 is it your voltage was too low and wire speed was way too high but again great video ☺️👍
Yeah, I agree. As a guy who has been welding for about a year now, more like a quarter year just counting mig I consider both to be kinda shitty, he has to turn the heat up, wire speed down a touch, and then do circles, not ovals. Honestly surprised it did not break, but to be fair it was not much of a destructive test.
I was saying the same thing at my phone. It's crazy how experience in just the noise coming from the machine tells you what needs to be done to fix it. Way too fast and not hot enough
Absolutely, someone who knows what there doing can make both welders run equally across the board. That new welder does all the setup work for you .. and it will get you pretty close .. if you don’t know how to set up a welder your self,,, good luck with that old one, you need to know what your doing
If they destructive testing would have been performed correctly it would have broke both pieces showing the penetration of both welds, they should have pressed on the welds themselves and not against them. They way it was performed just showed that the metal they welded on had a lower ductility than the weld itself
We have a welder from the 70’s in my fab shop and it welds just fine. It’s also not a spool gun. The only thing is that the voltage dial is off by like 3 to 5 volts. Y’all were WAY too cold with the old welder
@buffalo wt Really dude? They're making it accessible to lots of people. Welding is a huge niche field with MANY levels of tech and skill and quality requirements, its simpley not possible to make super in depth videos on the subject that cover EVERYTHING, and still be a dynamic channel with great all round content.
i'm in welding school rn, all our certifications require bend tests on 5/16" cold rolled steel. Our coupons look mostly like what you've done here, only we weld all the way through, polish and a hydraulic press bends them into a U shape. You'll see the weld metal, any porosity, slag, etc this way. Awesome video!
I have my technical arts degree in welding. Passed a few bend tests. If you can use a grinder, then grind out any porosity before you lay down any stringer beads. Your root pass and spacing is the most important part.
*Because unlike carbon steel which can be dirty and still weld nicely aluminium needs to be CLEAN AF to get a nice weld, The long liner picks up alot of crap from the workshop
@@ninefingerdeathgrip Yes I have been welding for 40 years and have used that same spool gun that are using on the video,they make real nice ones today
We use spool guns for aluminum in the sign shop I work at. We don't use them for steel. Alumimun wire is also a lot softer and will bind up very easily if it's a long distance from the surface you're welding.
Boiler maker from Australia. Great video. I have a 40 year old Australian made WIA mig welder has the main box and the 15kg spool and hand peace is on a separate frame that can be moved 10 meteors from main unit. Also had a 5 meteor earth cable. She's 3 phase and 300 amp and it just lays a wicked weld every time
My 1988 Hobart Beta Mig 250 is a tank. It actually works as well as the newer welders I've used. Biggest thing is knowing the best settings for the application. Even on .035 wire it has enough power to spray arc weld as well. It is big and a pain to move outside the building, but it is my go to for heavy repairs.
Ah that's not totally fair, you can get spoolguns for modern MIG welders too, that old welder just wasn't exactly born as a MIG welder entirely, I've used 50 year proper MIG welders with no real issues, you just need to know how to set it up really, not as user friendly.
Waiting for welds to cool so figured I would watch some donut. I have a millermatic 211 that is easily over 10 years old and has ran through 20+ spools. The only thing I see having a issue on the newer welders is the digital display or the buttons. Dials may not be as cool and may develop a few degrees of slop over time. But they will still function after several years.
If it has digital features, I'd assume those would be the first thing to break. Newer tech always means more points of failure, you can't really beat a big-ass transformer in terms of longevity.
The biggest difference between the welders is their duty cycle, which is how much time each machine can run before needing to cool off. The new machine is a at home light duty machine, duty cycle before it needs to cool will depend on much they spent, but would be less than 30 minutes of continuous welding. The 3-phase old school welding can weld from sun up to sun down and not break a sweat. It was meant to run all day and everyday. It lacks modern features of being able to weld anything but MIG. The newer machine they had could most likely do MIG, TIG and stick welding. Different welding methods require unique wave forms to weld certain materials and change depending upon thickness and also the inert gas control. Old school machine was meant to weld the same part day in and day out.
We have an old school one at at home the size of a generator, but can't use it since it has to be wired directly into the house wiring. It's heavy to push around but to be fair can go as high as 900 amps. I just have to settle with a modern portable one.
I'm a union pipefitter, so most of the welding I do is stick welding, but it's absolutely amazing how far the technology has come in the last couple of decades. Love some good welding content!
Now if he will just get back to clean cut hair... I wonder how many people think he looks less professional now. Maybe the military screwed me up, but i have a hard time taking people seriously with their hair hanging everywhere, looking like a caveman.
The hood labeled Alum. Is probably darker because it’s labeled for aluminum. Aluminum burns a lot brighter and if you are welding it all day you can get spots in your vision without adjusting your lens darkness.
Aluminum does not burn brighter at all.. its melting point is lower than most metals and you gotta weld it with tig process usually or you have to use a certain shielding gas in order to get any adhesion between what your fill material is and the aluminum.. im pretty sure alum is an old brand.. but aluminum does definitely not burn any brighter than any other metal.. and you can get vision issues looking at a camp fire for too long if its hot enough.. its just the lubrication of your eyeball drying up and holes formed in your cornea.. that usually heal on their own but will eventually degrade your vision and hurts like hell during the healing process.. some call it sandman cuz you tend to wake up with your eyes burning and feel like you got sand all in em which doesnt go away with eye drops, u just gotta tough it out.. sucks..
@@Z-Ack It takes more amperage to weld aluminum with both processes. So yes you typically need darker shades welding aluminum regardless of melting point. Another clown who has zero clue what he’s talking about.
@@howardhughes6212 Just be sure to take this knowledge that people in a field know more about it than those outside of it forward and remember it when it's not your own lol.
It's sick to see that both can get the job done, and that technology has simply made it so that you can get the job done a lot easier and more efficiently. Dope!
My dad has been welding/fabricating since the 70’s and I got into it about 4 years ago, you guys make it easy to understand in very basic terms for those who don’t actually know anything, also every machine is different, even if you have two of the exact same miller welders, they will not run the same on the same settings, they always give you a starting point, and you can always change it to your liking. I personally like To run everything hot, but don’t have my wire feed as high as most machines will auto set to. I generally run around 19 volts 240 wire feed to 21 volts 280 wire feed for just about everything, unless it’s super thick, or also obviously unless it’s dual shield.
Oh lord. I've been involved in welding since 2005, from tech high school welding, to CWI and working on other NDT/NDE certs. Seeing a running spoolmate 1 and WC-1 made my day. Airco has some interesting history up to when their welding tech was bought by what is now ESAB. Lot of history there. I'd say not a bad scratch at the surface of the welding world. Solid basic knowledge to get someone into it from an automotive standpoint.
@@GhostHaze87 Because literally nobody asked. If I wanted to nit pick I'm sure there's dozens of things wrong. But this was a simple video to demonstrate welding not the place my guy.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” John 3:16 NKJV “that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9 NKJV
There are some nice Chinese units, which work quite well, in the $300-500 range. They are not only suitable for beginners, but will work fine for low volume applications.I own a Reboot RM2100D which works pretty well. Check for sales on Amazon.
can't go wrong with the licoln red tombstone stick welder for $400-$500 I would always recommend a stick welder over anything else unless you plan on doing any aluminum welding, then there are no real cheap options, only tigs. Stick welders are the easiest to use/user friendly because you don't have to worry about wire speed, gas settings, and keeping extra gasses like mig welders.
Eastwood makes some really nice small wire welders. You can also go to lowes or Home Depot and buy a small Lincoln for a decent price. Also, it’s cheaper if you’re starting out with a wire welder to wire weld with flux core wire other than a MIG setup. You don’t have to buy the welding gas. I would also recommend a Lincoln tombstone welder if you’re starting out stick welding. If you’re looking for a decent priced engine driven welder, I’d 100% recommend a Hobart. They’re not too far off from the Miller Bobcat or Wildcat welder and they work good.
a good welder will make any machine work honestly. The ones at the trade school I attended had some old stick welders that ran better than the newer ones. At my job where im certified for spray arc GMAW we use Lincoln K5000-2 Flex Feeds with 0.045 wire and those run amazing as well. we do complete joint penetrations (CJP) up to 3in thick with those machines
As a certified structural welder, I've welded with these same exact hoods and a welder older than this system. It's obviously user error, sorry still love you guys though!
Yea got the stand on my scooter welded, dude fed the wire by hand and did the job with regular outlet ( we have 240V standard in India ) , it was done in 10 mins and just cost me 200 rupees, that's like $2.5
that's the whole problem of the modern world. people are so dependant on technology and computers doing the thinking for them that everyone today is basicly retarded. take these 2 guys. they can't even weld propperly without the machine doing things automaticly. they fucked up the settings and the technique on the old welder and it STILL produced a stronger weld.
This does a great job of demonstrating the evolutionary improvements we’ve made in the practice of welding while also highlighting the timelessness of the practice. I recently had the opportunity to weld around with my grandfather, and he brought out my great grandfather’s mig welder to teach me how to mig.
Nice welder comparison! When it comes to welding mask though they make auto darkening Lenses for the old style helmets and you need fresh clear lenses, the dark lens also come in different shades of darkness. lot of guys run old style flip fronts for field work. Also the flip isn't intended to be flipped down before welding it's actually used to double the hood as a grinding shield. You flip the whole hood down with your neck before welding that way it's hands free
50yo MIG welder? 😮 We have a Lincoln MIG welder we bought back in 2005 and a Lincoln Tombstone dad bought back in 1975 in the farm shop. Them tombstone buzzboxes never die.
I am so glad to see this episode as a young former MIG Welder. I’ve been working in a metal carpentry factory as a welder for several months and like any welder i always get hyped when i see other welders or other people weld hahahah
Living on a farm we use both new and old. We use a new MIG for light things and tacking. For the heavier stuff we go to the 60 year old stick welder that can burn holes through 1/2" steel ( yes it does have the amps to do it) and we never have to clean the workpiece prior to welding. It isn't about new versus old, it's about using the right tool for the right job.
When I first saw the old welder, how grungy it looked, and all the technical issues it was causing you, I found myself wanting to see you guys collaborate with one of those restoration channels like Hand Tool Rescue (though not that channel specifically, since he's in Canada. Like, someone local) to restore the rig to like-new condition for a more fair comparison. Y'all ended up doing right by the old welder without going that far, but if you're looking for something to do with the rig, finding a small time creator and giving them a boost by having them restore it would be swell. Plus I really just wanna see this thing taken to bits and put back together again.
I do wish they did more car stuff like the miata pit type stuff I loved learning about cars espacily how they thought me. They made it fun to learn!been with the group since like 100k still like the channel though and still watch everything they post
I remember my next door neighbor using one of these things. In the 70’s. He made the most beautiful welds. MIG welding was an art form and took an incredibly skilled person to use and perform welds. Everybody in the neighborhood went to him when they needed a weld job. The man was built like a tank and wielded that gun like it weighed nothing. So ya, it’s much easier nowadays for everyone to learn to weld. Back then, not so many folks.
Equipment does matter. There is this old fabricator and welder here that is revered. I was sitting beside him in the weld shop a few months ago and he was ordering new equipment. His words " Don't use old ragged shit and new stuff runs better ". Good equipment can make someone mediocre a little better and Good equipment can make someone great life a little easier.
I’m a welding instructor now. But back when I traveled I always had a fixed shade just incase my auto darkening hood went out. Can’t go wrong with old school
Yep. My company bought the cheapest auto. Completely roll of the dice, everytime you hit the trigger , pressed the pedal or scratched a rod. It somehow went missing.
Instructor where? Blind leading the blind. I’ve met a lot of trash instructors that only got their job cause they knew someone. Lincoln welding school in Dallas has a bunch of noobs teaching. Another clown 🤡
I graduated in 2010 in the south and learned welding with one of those old masks and on a stick welder. We had to make a metal box that could hold water without leaking. Pretty fun tbh. Anyone else with similar experience?
Yeah, im a plumber in finland and i remember that we had to Weld the most useless extravagant "things" and weld them as if it was going to be sinked in cement for 50 years, it was fun but the things we welded are the most useless stuff i know lol
I did the IIW welder diploma in South Africa in about 2009, we just went through all the positions. I did take part in the world skills competition though, and we did pointless position vessels there too. Great fun! All with fliptop helmets, GMAW, MMA and GTAW,
I love that Jobe comes off as just a goof ball, but is actually pretty damn knowledgeable on a looot of things. Just love the people on this channel. Each one of them rock
Career welder here, and son of a welding instructor! You can still get a spool gun for modern welders. They’re good for when you’re changing between processes a lot. Your old welder is having a gas issue, could just be a tip covered in spatter. Would 100% recommend getting a container of spatter guard to dip your new or old welder gun tip in before welding. Helps prolong tip life. If y’all ever have questions feel free to reach out.
Im in welding school rn & in order to be certified at the end we have to bend our piece very similar to how you did yours. But ours is cut open & they inspect the weld inside as well. With a mig welder its all in the settings of fine tuning it to the way you weld.
@@crinkly.love-stick In the hands of an unskilled welder, maybe. But MIG as a process is in widespread use in heavy industry, and if this were the case it simply wouldn't be used, as weld repair costs are significantly higher than initial weld costs, and no welding engineer would select a process which required 90% of its welds to be repaired. Perhaps some better training? Also, to state that one process is stronger than another is misleading. Each process will be able to acheive many different strengths based on a variety of factors, primarily the tensile strength of the filler metal used. For example, using an ER70s-1 wire, on a MIG setup, following a qualified WPS, woul acheive a minimum UTS of 70000Psi, the same result can be acheived using an E7018-1 stick electrode in accordance with a qualified welding procedure.
@@crinkly.love-stick ive got a year or so stick welding experience and just started a new job mig welding in June, mig hands down is easier to master. Unless its just the experience crossing over but the only thing that crosses is puddle control lol
i learned to weld on one of the old machines in shop class in high school. went on to work in a shop where only new ones were located. when dialed in properly the old is much better
I worked at Miller from 1974 to 1994 as a welder. We only used those big, clunky guns for aluminum welding as the wire is so soft. We had a separate wire feeder unit for mild and stainless welding.
With the old welder on your weave you can hear the voltage drop, that is a sign that your heat in the arc is cooling thus less penetration in the base metal. Learning more about mig welding would help with set up as well
Great video! A few remarks, though. C25 (75 % Argon + 25 % CO2) and especially C100 (100 % CO2) (or M21 ArC-25 and C1 how they're called in Europe) aren't inert shielding gases at all. In fact, the CO2 component is quite the active component, reacting with the weld metal and thus for example creating the silicate islands we all know (brown spots at 4:09). Highly simplified, but you get the idea. Over here, when an active gas component is present, it is called MAG welding - metal active gas welding. The only metals welded with MIG that I'm aware of, are Aluminium, Titanium and Copper - not including very special metals like Zirconium. There, pure Argon (I1) or mixtures of Argon and Helium (I3). Pure Helium (I2) is rarely if ever used, because it's harder to initiate an arc with it (high ionization energy). The very olf welding machines use a heavy transformer, which, as I have been told by the old guys in my company, creates a great performing arc, but controls are very limited. Mostly they are extremely inefficient when compared to power sources utilizing modern transistors for the power unit. One would be hardpressed to find anything else anyway nowadays. So old machines can still work great, as we can see here! Maybe you could even use the old power source with a more modern external feeding system NOT situated on the welding torch itself. By the way, sometimes this is still found with Aluminium welding, but has largely been eliminated by good Push-Pull-systems. Sorry for the long post! Cheers guys, keep up the great work!
The original process used pure argon. Then CO2 was introduced and it was called CO2 MIG. Now even the big US companies accept MIG as jargon. One neat part about the CO2 is that it is split apart at the wire and recombines at the weld pool, affecting the characteristics of the welding. That's part of it being active.
Mad respect for the senior mechanics out there who used and may still be using these older welders. They have the skills and the muscles to handle such machines.
One of our new miller welders went out at work one day. Coil overheated and melted through the insulation. Maintenance said they didn't have any replacement welders except one that has sat in the shop since the beginning of the company. An early 70's AirCo and I have to say. That was the absolute smoothest welder I've ever used. Good old crank handle tombstone
I'd love to have that old dinosaur welder.. We had one just like it in my collision repair class and it worked just as good(sometimes better)as the brand new welders we had..
Also the brand new out of the box mask would have same problems if it was dirty and set up to full darkness. I'd still weld with a 30 years old mask if I could find a headband for it, but now I use newer mask with peeping window. And mostly on newer automated mask I'we handled they actually have smaller window on them than on an older masks. And my eyes get sore using automated masks, they have short moment before darkening even when set to fastest setting
@@nathanaelhiebert4590 could you give some more examples out of curiosity? I use a 3 panel auto darkening helmet and the only time I've ever had a complaint is when I'm wedged under a car and can't turn my head the way I want
I'd take one of those old machines over the new ones. They will weld every bit as well as a modern machine, but are far more reliable, and can run any process with it. Lots of weld shops are still using them today. I used one every dau for awhile. Like them a lot.
I had always wondered how my grandpa got so good at mig welding just casually doing it. But after seeing this I understand that the simple fact he had to put up with this would make him an insanely great welder
I worked for a week in a place making bins and a guy was welding pieces a few feet from me. I though i was far enough away but at the end of the day I found out that the right side of my face was sunburnt. The lesson? If you are anywhere near a welder in operation, cover up.
This is a great video to start with. There is so much involved with welding. I've been doing it for 20 years and I really think this was a great jumping off point for people. New welders are easier to get going. Older welders are still great machines but some headaches may be there. Either way there was some cringy moments but a great video nonE the less! The welding community thanks you.
This was pretty cool to see that a 50 year old welder still can compete. Miller Electric was founded in Appleton, WI, which is 10 minutes from me. Nice Zelda item pickup sound at 9:24 btw.
This is gonna be interesting to see. For my first welder, I bought this ridiculous 12V battery powered welder barely used from army inventory (If you wanna look it up, it's Goweld brand I think). My main concern is that it's quite a bulky welding gun, so I'm interested to see how you guys do with the old welding gun.
I remember that huge mig welder from shop class and it was clunky. It was also hard to learn with an angry shop teacher yelling in your ear. "Your doing it wrong."
Despite working in one of the most modern steel mills around, we still work with these old machines and masks x) Only the newer workshops have the more modern masks and machines.
My dad was a production welder back in mid 70's through to 80's, so he probably used something similar to the old behemoth. Through the 90's, he was the neighbourhood welder that everyone knew about, but just using sticker welder on most materials, with great success.
Lol I was cuttin yesterday while barefoot in shorts and no shirt. Probably dumb. Got fucked up by a grinder a few years back. 18 staples and 32 stitches.
Great demonstration on the advancements of MIG welding. Only one tip from a welder, get used to the push technique and try to use that more as it'll be much easier to see where you're going and cover more surface area. Pulling might achieve deeper yet narrower penetration but you would be surprised how much stronger a weld with more surface area, like the push technique can be in most scenarios. Here in Northern Ireland, the pull technique isn't even taught on my courses as MIG doesn't create slag and rarely warrants it.
All said that old Miller welder is pretty amazing. Not just a 50yr old design, but a 50yr old machine with decades of use on it. Not much tech from 50 years ago can contend with modern day/top of the line, counterparts.
Wow. I know a lot of places don't come with 240V outlets built in--the amount of applications is pretty limited--but in a warehouse/garage setting like you guys are in you'd think they'd put at least one? Garages are most often one of few places where you might actually use it. Strange, but even weirder is that you guys haven't already had someone put one in!
3 phase isn’t cheap. When you are doing pretend work for the TH-cam’s, it just wouldn’t be worth paying for. Of course if they had any clue as to what they were doing, that machine probably could have been setup to run on 240v single phase in less than 10mins.
3:40 the electrons are actually going the other way. Your "ground" is actually "positive" and the electrode wire is "negative." Otherwise you'd be welding onto the wire, not into the base metal. That's why AC welding is so messy, it flips back and forth 120x a second.
Awesome video guys, love seeing good content on a great channel about welding. I started in the industry in 2009 in South Africa and it's taken me to very interesting places in the world. Flip top helmets arent all that bad though. With practice, keeping them clean, and selecting the correct shade for the material and process, they are just as good, if not better than auto darkening helmets, which, if they "lose sight" of the arc, by the sensor being obstructed in positional welding, they can flash on you, which is a sure fire way to hurt your eyes and mess up your weld. Still though, SOOOO cool to see proper welding videos, been watching for ages, but this one definitely gets the subscribe!!
Definitely had troubles with an auto-darkening helmet being partially obstructed and flashing, and trying to reposition myself under a truck so the lens didn't have anything in front of it, only to realize the front spark shield thing was dingy and blocking part of the light. Auto-darkening helmets are great but can be problematic when you work in dirty areas and stuff. Ended up with a few seconds of flash total trying several things to get the sensor to pick up, assuming each one would work before finally just taking it off and resting my cup in position and doing a series of heavy tacks to get things put together temporarily. turning up the sensitivity is the only thing I found to make it actually work how it was supposed to a little later.
If you're looking through the lens of an auto darkening helmet, you'll never get a a true flash. Even when they're not activated, they filter 100% of the UV from an arc. Safety tech is way ahead of human brains.
@@LifeInJambles Totally agree. Add to that the risk of damaging a good auto-darkening hood. A GOOD auto-darkening hood is going to cost $300 to $500. A fixed shade hood is going to cost 1/10th of that. If you're in a rough environment, it's a lot of risk with a nice hood. I suppose since this is a car channel-not one about structural welding, I suppose this isn't a HUGE risk. I'm talking about structural outdoor stuff.
@@GeekInJeep I mean if you're doing stuff on dirty old trucks and just prepping the area to be welded, using self-shielded mig and pretty up close to the weld with the spatter and grinding dust (including some greasy flap disc work that probably produced some smoke)... there are definitely plenty of situations where automotive stuff can be pretty messy. That's how I fouled my lens. Definitely a situation I don't expect to do most of my welding in, and I should have just disconnected the axle and did my work on a table but.... it seemed like a lot more work and I didn't see any reason the work shouldn't be done in-situ at the time.
I did welding at college. We had a machine we used for MMA which our tutor, at 70 years old, said HE'D been taught to weld using it. Compared to the other machines, it'd strike arcs easily, the strength of the finished products would be unparalleled and the slag coating would come off very easily. They don't make them like they used to. They really don't..
@@goldzeriteminer No it was MMA, manual metal arc/stick welding. The machine was shaped like a box, except absurdly heavier. It didn't even show a readout for the ampage, just a dial and that was it lol
There is nothing wrong with old welding hoods. Alot of welders, to this day, prefer the flip lense. And the lenses only cost $2 a piece here in Texas. The clear ones u can get at your job for free if you have a tool room. The older welder machine you guys used seemed to lack voltage and gas flow. And all my weld tests have been either welded on both sides (with a back gouge), or with a backing strap. On plate at least. Either way, love y'all guys content.
I still prefer the old style welding helmet. Much better vision through the glass while welding. The automatic screens are handy for TIG welding though
Are you adjusting your helmet? Should have a dial that starts are G ( for grinding) and go up from there, on the first level of auto darkening you should be able to see everything very very clearly when welding, almost like not having a mask at all, cept green - ish 😂. At full darkness levels it's about the equivalent of old school welding mask or goggles.
That's literally just the difference between the input voltages, the older 240v is applying a lot more heat and penetrating the material allowing the plates to join easier.
That seemed like awfully thick steel to be trying to weld on a 120v, 15a circuit. 120v units are inherently underpowered for anything serious. 4 grand is an absolute joke for that output.
@@chimrichalds5205 4 grand is a joke for that millermatic. It's severely underpowered and kinda sucks all around. Multiprocess machines are terrible unless they're from ESAB.
50 years ago one of the only reasons to use mig was production work. Using a spool gun with long leads was the only way to be somewhat “mobile”. You can’t push wire that far. Now days you can just run a small suitcase welder and a ton of extension cord. I would love to see that thing run rod. Probably lays it in there like butter 🧈
I don’t like the auto darkening lenses because I know light itself is faster than the how fast the sensor can detect it. I always get the lenses that are already darkened. 👍🏼
The old miller machine can actually be set up on a modern wire feeder box as well the large portion can aslo be setup to tig and stick if you know how and the welding hood should be picked by personal preference and the task at hand
This is a neat video of old vs new, but to really get the old welder you have to think about when it was new. Back the the most common form of welding was stick welding, which is quite a tricky skill. A MIG is '72 was definitely welding easy mode.
when I was little I thought that since my dad's welder apparently created metal out of thin air, we would never run out of metal in the world. I told him about my discovery, he laughed and showed me the big spool of wire inside the welder. also taught me about the electrical circuit and the wire feeding through :) you learn a lot if your family's trade is cars
I had the same theory about fax machines when I was little! They kept printing paper! My mom laughed so hard!
I though oxyacetylene welding was cheaper than metal arc welding as a wee lad and inisited my father use it instead to save on power bills not knowing that special air in a big can was waaay more expensive.
I used to think the same thing, then I told my dad that it was the best tool for that reason
That channel above is a spam bot don't dm them
Cool story
I'm so happy that you took the effort of getting the older welder to run, it was worth it.
btw. Zach is a legend and the most valuable asset Donut has, just saying.
team zach
He really seems like the complete package tho.
AGREED! Most knowledgeable and hands on member of the team by far. Not to take away from all of the other guys who all have their qualities. Great team altogether.
I was surprised they didn't have 240 AC in their shop!
Cuz he came to commifornia from Ohio
One of the many things I love about your channel is your integrity and commitment. You didn't just give up on the old welder or even "upgrade it" to a slightly less old one. No, you went through the time and trouble to make it work right and I for one appreciate your dedication. Keep up the good work!
Yur an aduiot why would they not take the time to fix it n countinuie the experiment
Agreed, although I can tell that the old welder wasn't set properly. Wire speed was a little slow.
Just as a note for most people looking into getting into welding, that multi process Miller they used is very high end for most at home/day to day use. There are others that are over 4x cheaper and will do just as good a job, especially if you look at welders that go up to around 240-280v.
I'm still using the Sears AC stick welder I got at the thrift store for $60 (I overpaid, but it goes to a good cause).
Flux core even cheaper too! Just annoying to use
@@The_Slavstralian I'm actually looking into buying a Vulcan Omnipro 220, they're just under $1.2K and made by a guy who used to be a designer for Lincoln.
@@whiplash-wl8764 lincoln machines are trash
@@Tubeyou2343hhsgyou obviously have no knowledge on welders or anything at all to judge something that you’ve probably never used. Lincoln lasted me over 8 years and it’s still going strong
Most shocking part of this video was that their shop didn't have atleast one 240v hookup
That's what I was thinking. What kind of self respecting shop wouldn't
commercial property so likely 3-phase 120/208
i was also questioning that i feel like if i had a youtube chanel like them even with how stupid i am id have 3 or 4 phase electricity
*confused in european*
Laughs in european
Someone with experience can make the old one sing like an angel! My pops made beautiful welds with that exact style welder
Totally agree, had the settings on the older welder been adjusted properly it would have sounded more like the newer one. That said technology has definitely simplified the process. The auto set feature is very impressive.
One thing to remember is that MIG Welding came about as a way to produce M4 tanks faster for the US Army in WW2. Before that, Stick Welding (Shield Metal Arc Welding) was the go to for all welding process.
Stick Welding (SMAW) is a slow, rather skill intensive process as there are a number of factors you are needing to pay attention to while welding to lay a good bead, and in a time like WW2 where really every second counted, they didn't have the time to waste to train people to stick weld, so they needed a faster process that could be learned much quicker so the average citizen could pick-up the skill and contribute in the factories.
So while the machine you had was 50 years old, the MIG process has been around for 80 years, meaning they already had 30 years of knowledge going that old machine. It may have been large and clunky, but the foundation was solid so it's not surprising with a bit of tweaking it would work just as well and delivered a weld that was just a good.
didnt know that. actually interesting hahah
Yeah im at a techical colege ( diesel mac course) and we did gas welding(oxy acetylene) and stick welding its alot easier if you learn with a stick welder because its very skill intensive
Gtaw has entered the chat lol
That's really interesting. Good to know!
GMAW has been around for 100 years now, but they didn’t start using shielding gas until 1948. It wasn’t really economical to weld with GMAW till the 1950’s because that’s when they figured out they could add CO2 to the gas mixture. SMAW isn’t that hard honestly especially with a fixed shade helmet.
Pretty sure there is a gas issue in the old welder: there was not enough shielding which is why there was an abundance of sparks.
Did they drag that weld we normally push unless we're using flux core
@@andrewhawkes6478 ye solid wire u suppose to push, for peno reason and for overhead welding and vertical up, flux core is basically is the easiest one which can be pushed or pulled but not as good for vertical up or overhead so imo for what they do, I think flux core is best for car works just because u can get a consistency with peno and welds look a lot cleaner
Not enough amps
I've only used flux core on armour plate been welding, steel industry for 40 odd years was just interested to see the difference over sea's
Also you didnt say what gas you were using. If you were using 75/25 [co2 and argon ] that runs hotter and more spatter. Strait co2 runs colder and less spatter. The older welder you need to be a welder to understant how it works and how to adjust it. Like the new one anybody that can read can set it up but you did the comparison well just wonder if the new welder will still work as well after 50 years
Nice to see the quality rising back to the level I expect from Donut on this episode. The content, the editing, that was neat. More of this please !
E
This was actually pretty interesting, and while your single vs three phase explanations were mostly correct, most three phase stuff uses nowhere near 100 amps- if it’s actually the same size in KW as your single phase thing, it actually uses less current to do the same work
is it ever an option to just supply a single phase to a welder that has a three phase power input?
wouldn't it have registered as a full stop when there are four open power connections?
@@dubmob151 no, a three phase appliance needs three phase
You can actually cause major damage to equipment doing that especially if it has a motor supplying it with only one or two phases
However most older equipment has nothing to stop it trying to work when it only has one or two phases connected, as shown in the video where the welder worked a little but but really terribly
If that was a motor it would just sit there humming till the varnish melts off the windings and the motor is screwed
@@dubmob151 I wouldn’t be surprised if there are single/ three phase welding machines, but I’m a sparky not a welder so dont know too much about different types
Amperage: for three phase multiply by three for equivalent power, i.e. the 30 amp three phase = 90 amp single phase. For home use you don't even want to think of going near 3 phase. Even business. One of my businesses uses three phase and we have a generator because it was going to cost over $175,000 to get that power run to the site.
@@anvilsvs lol that's not how 3 phase works.. assuming you have a power factor of 0.99 then 30a of 3 phase at 400v would actually be 86a at 240v. but again that is assuming your appliance has a insanely good power factor otherwise
First of all, the new facial front is kicking. And second, I’m amazed both of those welders did so well! My grandfather was a welder for 40 years of his life and to know that’s what kind of equipment he used is mind blowing! I did also get him a brand new welding helmet and he has loved it. Definitely treat yourself to one if you haven’t already!
That is not Donut. It's a scammer. Do not hit them up for a 'prize'
@@stevemadak6255 report them too
Reports do absolutely nothing
@@riba2233 That's what they want you to think
@@TheMarioOne No, I know that for a fact. I still report though sometime
23y qualified heavy welder here to say thanks for trying to spark interest in the trades. I will say there are a lot of variables unaccounted for between the two machines, not to mention operator skill. Old units have character and are quarky due to long service in a specific range, and can take a set(like a spring can.) That said, when they get into the range they are conditioned to, they work. I encourage folks to take formal training, as it is more educational than OJT.
Exactly. Older welders will lose the nob accuracy and you’ll have to adjust it through trial and error I was using an older welder that was running 135 amps on the nob but only felt like 85-90 based on how it was keyholing the root bevels. And vice versa, I’ve had them where the nob said 40 but it was keyholing like it was 120amps
@mind games It's apples to oranges really. My og comment was about their comparison vid. As we all know, Time is Money. That said, I agree that if you own a business, and are in a position to invest like that, do it! However, I believe their vid was about buying a unit for your own non-commercial use. Hobbyists usually want to drop coin on parts/kits. Let's face it, arc time is small when compared to the whole job. Either way, you can't go wrong. Who doesn't want primo tools!
Watching this hurt my soul,
@@eastcoastcarpenterofalaska5073 ahahahahah me too man, I have aids from watching this. So many things wrong.
be interested to see if the miller mig welder is still around after 50 years of heavy use
This is the REAL test to be perfectly honest.
the digital screen has to age pretty quickly, but in generally it should be fairly reliable. It would still be extraordinary if it still works 50yrs later
These new inverter machines are nice but they don’t have the longevity of solid wound machines ,
@@danw1089 Based on what evidence
My union job in Detroit still uses thise old welding machines without the spool gun
The old welder while it had a mig addon was originaly an arc welder that welded with welding sticks and the hand fed mig attachment meant that it was for long distance welding usually a setup like that would of been to weld thick steel for say beams or thick sheet steel on heavy equipment or ships not really an apples to apples comparison you could get older mig welders with the wire housed in the unit itself fed through the cable similar to the newer model you have. The automatic sensing weld system seems nice so long as it works and doesn't go jank on you for welds that you really want to trust life or death for example Id still stick with manual settings.
Most older welders are just big power sources that could be converted to whatever, get the right stuff and its a tig welder if its a constant current, used to convert one old ass welding machine into tig, mig, stick, and flux core depending on what that day called for
nice to know. but please, weld a coupla commas in there next time, bud
@@mrkazman Commas remind him of spatter, so he prefers to use as litte of them as possible LOL
still less spatter and stress riseser's anyways im pro-TIG welding. hot-glue MIG is for looks or tack's lolz 😂
Spool guns are also used for Aluminum mig welding. They still make spool guns for both doing Aluminum and for using long leads. My boss just bought a Miller spool gun and that joker costs about $700 or so
Hey I'm a professional welder my self and I have to say The problem with the weld profile for the new at 11:31 is it your voltage was too low and wire speed was way too high but again great video ☺️👍
Yeah, I agree. As a guy who has been welding for about a year now, more like a quarter year just counting mig I consider both to be kinda shitty, he has to turn the heat up, wire speed down a touch, and then do circles, not ovals. Honestly surprised it did not break, but to be fair it was not much of a destructive test.
I was saying the same thing at my phone. It's crazy how experience in just the noise coming from the machine tells you what needs to be done to fix it. Way too fast and not hot enough
Absolutely, someone who knows what there doing can make both welders run equally across the board. That new welder does all the setup work for you .. and it will get you pretty close .. if you don’t know how to set up a welder your self,,, good luck with that old one, you need to know what your doing
If they destructive testing would have been performed correctly it would have broke both pieces showing the penetration of both welds, they should have pressed on the welds themselves and not against them. They way it was performed just showed that the metal they welded on had a lower ductility than the weld itself
We have a welder from the 70’s in my fab shop and it welds just fine. It’s also not a spool gun. The only thing is that the voltage dial is off by like 3 to 5 volts. Y’all were WAY too cold with the old welder
Way way cold!! hehe.
@buffalo wt Really dude? They're making it accessible to lots of people. Welding is a huge niche field with MANY levels of tech and skill and quality requirements, its simpley not possible to make super in depth videos on the subject that cover EVERYTHING, and still be a dynamic channel with great all round content.
@buffalo wt Fair enough, I think it's pretty cool nonetheless.
Isn't that the point? New welder worked fine because it told them what to do. Old welder worked better when some experts told them how to set it up.
Old one you can use for your life time and more. With new one i dont think so. The time will tell, jet if we do some analytics the answer is known,
i'm in welding school rn, all our certifications require bend tests on 5/16" cold rolled steel. Our coupons look mostly like what you've done here, only we weld all the way through, polish and a hydraulic press bends them into a U shape. You'll see the weld metal, any porosity, slag, etc this way. Awesome video!
Pretty neat. So many welders these days in school.
we do the same at my school im always excited to do bend tests
What do you mean by cold rolled steel? I always do weld test using flat stock.
@@jhands1988 your flat stock is most likely cold rolled, but its just the process the metal is formed
I have my technical arts degree in welding. Passed a few bend tests. If you can use a grinder, then grind out any porosity before you lay down any stringer beads. Your root pass and spacing is the most important part.
The spool guns were used primarily to weld aluminum so the wire goes right from the spool to the tip and not through the length of the liner
They are still used today to weld aluminum, as aluminum wire is soft and that makes it hard to push it through liner
*Because unlike carbon steel which can be dirty and still weld nicely aluminium needs to be CLEAN AF to get a nice weld, The long liner picks up alot of crap from the workshop
@@ninefingerdeathgrip Yes I have been welding for 40 years and have used that same spool gun that are using on the video,they make real nice ones today
We use spool guns for aluminum in the sign shop I work at. We don't use them for steel. Alumimun wire is also a lot softer and will bind up very easily if it's a long distance from the surface you're welding.
Miller makes mig welders for aluminum that have a feeder box and not a spool gun. No problems moving aluminum through 25 foot lead
Boiler maker from Australia. Great video. I have a 40 year old Australian made WIA mig welder has the main box and the 15kg spool and hand peace is on a separate frame that can be moved 10 meteors from main unit. Also had a 5 meteor earth cable. She's 3 phase and 300 amp and it just lays a wicked weld every time
Couldnt agree more I've used wia migs for years there bullet proof the older ones, they just never fail awesome welder
How far is a meteor exactly?
I have to start measuring stuff in meteors, that rules
My 1988 Hobart Beta Mig 250 is a tank. It actually works as well as the newer welders I've used. Biggest thing is knowing the best settings for the application. Even on .035 wire it has enough power to spray arc weld as well. It is big and a pain to move outside the building, but it is my go to for heavy repairs.
Ah that's not totally fair, you can get spoolguns for modern MIG welders too, that old welder just wasn't exactly born as a MIG welder entirely, I've used 50 year proper MIG welders with no real issues, you just need to know how to set it up really, not as user friendly.
Waiting for welds to cool so figured I would watch some donut. I have a millermatic 211 that is easily over 10 years old and has ran through 20+ spools. The only thing I see having a issue on the newer welders is the digital display or the buttons. Dials may not be as cool and may develop a few degrees of slop over time. But they will still function after several years.
You got another 20 years n hundreds of spools to go before that baddy goes lol 😂
The contrast in technology is really on show here, but would the newer one still function as well, if at all, after the same amount of time elapsed?
in my shop we use millermatic 350p units and they need to be repaired or replaced way more often than the price tag would suggest
That's a fair question, actually. It would be difficult to test, but interesting.
We have a bunch new welding machines in the shop that are constantly being sent out for repairs.
If it has digital features, I'd assume those would be the first thing to break. Newer tech always means more points of failure, you can't really beat a big-ass transformer in terms of longevity.
Definetly not lol
“Most 3 phases devices requires 100 amp” - and that is when you know, that they dont know what they are takling about
Electricity is a core part of the entire modern world, yet most peoples knowledge of it is so limited its sad.
How true, my shop has a 400 amp service but most of the equipment uses 30 amps or less.
Multiple cringeworthy moments in this video, and it still has 1.5 million views. Man I'm in the wrong business...
That's right, I have a Three Phase welder at work that uses 17 amps per phase, that is not 100 Amps.
not to be super nitpicky: single phase power, counter intuitively, runs on two phases. two hots, instead of a hot and a neutral. just sayn.
The biggest difference between the welders is their duty cycle, which is how much time each machine can run before needing to cool off. The new machine is a at home light duty machine, duty cycle before it needs to cool will depend on much they spent, but would be less than 30 minutes of continuous welding. The 3-phase old school welding can weld from sun up to sun down and not break a sweat. It was meant to run all day and everyday. It lacks modern features of being able to weld anything but MIG. The newer machine they had could most likely do MIG, TIG and stick welding. Different welding methods require unique wave forms to weld certain materials and change depending upon thickness and also the inert gas control. Old school machine was meant to weld the same part day in and day out.
^ This 100% and probably the most important part they completely missed.
We have an old school one at at home the size of a generator, but can't use it since it has to be wired directly into the house wiring. It's heavy to push around but to be fair can go as high as 900 amps. I just have to settle with a modern portable one.
I'm a union pipefitter, so most of the welding I do is stick welding, but it's absolutely amazing how far the technology has come in the last couple of decades. Love some good welding content!
Seeing Jobe go from facial hair to clean shave was a flashbang lol
Now if he will just get back to clean cut hair... I wonder how many people think he looks less professional now. Maybe the military screwed me up, but i have a hard time taking people seriously with their hair hanging everywhere, looking like a caveman.
The hood labeled Alum. Is probably darker because it’s labeled for aluminum. Aluminum burns a lot brighter and if you are welding it all day you can get spots in your vision without adjusting your lens darkness.
Aluminum does not burn brighter at all.. its melting point is lower than most metals and you gotta weld it with tig process usually or you have to use a certain shielding gas in order to get any adhesion between what your fill material is and the aluminum.. im pretty sure alum is an old brand.. but aluminum does definitely not burn any brighter than any other metal.. and you can get vision issues looking at a camp fire for too long if its hot enough.. its just the lubrication of your eyeball drying up and holes formed in your cornea.. that usually heal on their own but will eventually degrade your vision and hurts like hell during the healing process.. some call it sandman cuz you tend to wake up with your eyes burning and feel like you got sand all in em which doesnt go away with eye drops, u just gotta tough it out.. sucks..
Yeah clown I weld all day and what you’re talking about is not true. This entire comment section is amateur hour from fools.
@@Z-Ack It takes more amperage to weld aluminum with both processes. So yes you typically need darker shades welding aluminum regardless of melting point. Another clown who has zero clue what he’s talking about.
@@howardhughes6212 Just be sure to take this knowledge that people in a field know more about it than those outside of it forward and remember it when it's not your own lol.
@@tonymorris4335 clown you made zero sense
It's sick to see that both can get the job done, and that technology has simply made it so that you can get the job done a lot easier and more efficiently. Dope!
My dad has been welding/fabricating since the 70’s and I got into it about 4 years ago, you guys make it easy to understand in very basic terms for those who don’t actually know anything, also every machine is different, even if you have two of the exact same miller welders, they will not run the same on the same settings, they always give you a starting point, and you can always change it to your liking. I personally like To run everything hot, but don’t have my wire feed as high as most machines will auto set to. I generally run around 19 volts 240 wire feed to 21 volts 280 wire feed for just about everything, unless it’s super thick, or also obviously unless it’s dual shield.
Oh lord. I've been involved in welding since 2005, from tech high school welding, to CWI and working on other NDT/NDE certs. Seeing a running spoolmate 1 and WC-1 made my day. Airco has some interesting history up to when their welding tech was bought by what is now ESAB. Lot of history there. I'd say not a bad scratch at the surface of the welding world. Solid basic knowledge to get someone into it from an automotive standpoint.
If your so qualified y didn’t you mention the incorrect direction of travel or gun angle lol
@@GhostHaze87 Because literally nobody asked. If I wanted to nit pick I'm sure there's dozens of things wrong. But this was a simple video to demonstrate welding not the place my guy.
If u want to see running old MIG, I just wait until I go to work tomorrow.
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Cheap vs expensive welders? I'd like to see some good beginner-level options.
There are some nice Chinese units, which work quite well, in the $300-500 range. They are not only suitable for beginners, but will work fine for low volume applications.I own a Reboot RM2100D which works pretty well. Check for sales on Amazon.
can't go wrong with the licoln red tombstone stick welder for $400-$500 I would always recommend a stick welder over anything else unless you plan on doing any aluminum welding, then there are no real cheap options, only tigs. Stick welders are the easiest to use/user friendly because you don't have to worry about wire speed, gas settings, and keeping extra gasses like mig welders.
Eastwood makes some really nice small wire welders. You can also go to lowes or Home Depot and buy a small Lincoln for a decent price. Also, it’s cheaper if you’re starting out with a wire welder to wire weld with flux core wire other than a MIG setup. You don’t have to buy the welding gas. I would also recommend a Lincoln tombstone welder if you’re starting out stick welding. If you’re looking for a decent priced engine driven welder, I’d 100% recommend a Hobart. They’re not too far off from the Miller Bobcat or Wildcat welder and they work good.
a good welder will make any machine work honestly. The ones at the trade school I attended had some old stick welders that ran better than the newer ones. At my job where im certified for spray arc GMAW we use Lincoln K5000-2 Flex Feeds with 0.045 wire and those run amazing as well. we do complete joint penetrations (CJP) up to 3in thick with those machines
@@youngjesus5992 the old stick welders were better than cheap chinese shit
As a certified structural welder, I've welded with these same exact hoods and a welder older than this system. It's obviously user error, sorry still love you guys though!
Exactly! Im a pipe welder and they just clearly don’t understand how welding works, we use old stick welders all day with no problem whatsoever.
Yea got the stand on my scooter welded, dude fed the wire by hand and did the job with regular outlet ( we have 240V standard in India ) , it was done in 10 mins and just cost me 200 rupees, that's like $2.5
that's the whole problem of the modern world.
people are so dependant on technology and computers doing the thinking for them that everyone today is basicly retarded.
take these 2 guys. they can't even weld propperly without the machine doing things automaticly.
they fucked up the settings and the technique on the old welder and it STILL produced a stronger weld.
Was about to say the same thing.
This does a great job of demonstrating the evolutionary improvements we’ve made in the practice of welding while also highlighting the timelessness of the practice.
I recently had the opportunity to weld around with my grandfather, and he brought out my great grandfather’s mig welder to teach me how to mig.
Those old airco welders actually are fantastic for tig welding one of the best setups I have ever used was an old airco
Nice welder comparison! When it comes to welding mask though they make auto darkening Lenses for the old style helmets and you need fresh clear lenses, the dark lens also come in different shades of darkness. lot of guys run old style flip fronts for field work. Also the flip isn't intended to be flipped down before welding it's actually used to double the hood as a grinding shield. You flip the whole hood down with your neck before welding that way it's hands free
50yo MIG welder? 😮
We have a Lincoln MIG welder we bought back in 2005 and a Lincoln Tombstone dad bought back in 1975 in the farm shop. Them tombstone buzzboxes never die.
I am so glad to see this episode as a young former MIG Welder. I’ve been working in a metal carpentry factory as a welder for several months and like any welder i always get hyped when i see other welders or other people weld hahahah
I just started a welding class in my school and we’ve started with arc welding. Very cool experience.
Living on a farm we use both new and old. We use a new MIG for light things and tacking. For the heavier stuff we go to the 60 year old stick welder that can burn holes through 1/2" steel ( yes it does have the amps to do it) and we never have to clean the workpiece prior to welding. It isn't about new versus old, it's about using the right tool for the right job.
When I first saw the old welder, how grungy it looked, and all the technical issues it was causing you, I found myself wanting to see you guys collaborate with one of those restoration channels like Hand Tool Rescue (though not that channel specifically, since he's in Canada. Like, someone local) to restore the rig to like-new condition for a more fair comparison. Y'all ended up doing right by the old welder without going that far, but if you're looking for something to do with the rig, finding a small time creator and giving them a boost by having them restore it would be swell. Plus I really just wanna see this thing taken to bits and put back together again.
I do wish they did more car stuff like the miata pit type stuff I loved learning about cars espacily how they thought me. They made it fun to learn!been with the group since like 100k still like the channel though and still watch everything they post
I remember my next door neighbor using one of these things. In the 70’s. He made the most beautiful welds. MIG welding was an art form and took an incredibly skilled person to use and perform welds. Everybody in the neighborhood went to him when they needed a weld job. The man was built like a tank and wielded that gun like it weighed nothing. So ya, it’s much easier nowadays for everyone to learn to weld. Back then, not so many folks.
I feel like when you weld a peice of metal it doesn't matter one what model or year, it matters on the skill level and how good one can weld
Equipment does matter. There is this old fabricator and welder here that is revered. I was sitting beside him in the weld shop a few months ago and he was ordering new equipment. His words " Don't use old ragged shit and new stuff runs better ".
Good equipment can make someone mediocre a little better and Good equipment can make someone great life a little easier.
Wire has a big part to play in spatter too, new wire tends to have better coating on it to reduce spatter.
Spool guns still have their uses. I used one when welding on a magnesium truck dock plate in part because the wire was very expensive.
Don't believe the winner message. Almost definitely a scam.
I’m a welding instructor now. But back when I traveled I always had a fixed shade just incase my auto darkening hood went out. Can’t go wrong with old school
Yep. My company bought the cheapest auto. Completely roll of the dice, everytime you hit the trigger ,
pressed the pedal or scratched a rod.
It somehow went missing.
Instructor where? Blind leading the blind. I’ve met a lot of trash instructors that only got their job cause they knew someone. Lincoln welding school in Dallas has a bunch of noobs teaching. Another clown 🤡
I pretty much exclusively use a fixed shade at work
@@codypace9257 Fixed shade is for poor people. I can loan you some money if you need it brother. 😂
@@howardhughes6212 i make plenty doing aerospace welding. And my fixed shade lens and hood cost more than most auto darkening 😆
I graduated in 2010 in the south and learned welding with one of those old masks and on a stick welder. We had to make a metal box that could hold water without leaking. Pretty fun tbh. Anyone else with similar experience?
Yeah, im a plumber in finland and i remember that we had to Weld the most useless extravagant "things" and weld them as if it was going to be sinked in cement for 50 years, it was fun but the things we welded are the most useless stuff i know lol
My friend took a welding course in highschool in ny and he had to do the metal box test around 2019
Laps, butts and tees on what felt like tin foil at the time. Anything thicker than 20 gauge is gravy now.
I did the IIW welder diploma in South Africa in about 2009, we just went through all the positions. I did take part in the world skills competition though, and we did pointless position vessels there too. Great fun! All with fliptop helmets, GMAW, MMA and GTAW,
We did the box test in iowa 2016
I love that Jobe comes off as just a goof ball, but is actually pretty damn knowledgeable on a looot of things. Just love the people on this channel. Each one of them rock
Career welder here, and son of a welding instructor! You can still get a spool gun for modern welders. They’re good for when you’re changing between processes a lot. Your old welder is having a gas issue, could just be a tip covered in spatter. Would 100% recommend getting a container of spatter guard to dip your new or old welder gun tip in before welding. Helps prolong tip life. If y’all ever have questions feel free to reach out.
There should be a warning in this video: “WARNING: Jobe will be clean shaven at halfway to end of video!” Not sure I was ready for that. 🤣
Im in welding school rn & in order to be certified at the end we have to bend our piece very similar to how you did yours. But ours is cut open & they inspect the weld inside as well. With a mig welder its all in the settings of fine tuning it to the way you weld.
Good ol' bend tests.
What's crazy, is mig testing has a 90% or higher fail rate. Stick welding is around 2x the strength, and far easier to master structural welding.
@@crinkly.love-stick In the hands of an unskilled welder, maybe. But MIG as a process is in widespread use in heavy industry, and if this were the case it simply wouldn't be used, as weld repair costs are significantly higher than initial weld costs, and no welding engineer would select a process which required 90% of its welds to be repaired. Perhaps some better training? Also, to state that one process is stronger than another is misleading. Each process will be able to acheive many different strengths based on a variety of factors, primarily the tensile strength of the filler metal used. For example, using an ER70s-1 wire, on a MIG setup, following a qualified WPS, woul acheive a minimum UTS of 70000Psi, the same result can be acheived using an E7018-1 stick electrode in accordance with a qualified welding procedure.
@@crinkly.love-stick ive got a year or so stick welding experience and just started a new job mig welding in June, mig hands down is easier to master. Unless its just the experience crossing over but the only thing that crosses is puddle control lol
@@Faraway8721 I mean there's a reason why there is no MIG process for D1.1 structural welding.
i learned to weld on one of the old machines in shop class in high school. went on to work in a shop where only new ones were located. when dialed in properly the old is much better
I worked at Miller from 1974 to 1994 as a welder. We only used those big, clunky guns for aluminum welding as the wire is so soft. We had a separate wire feeder unit for mild and stainless welding.
With the old welder on your weave you can hear the voltage drop, that is a sign that your heat in the arc is cooling thus less penetration in the base metal. Learning more about mig welding would help with set up as well
Great video! A few remarks, though. C25 (75 % Argon + 25 % CO2) and especially C100 (100 % CO2) (or M21 ArC-25 and C1 how they're called in Europe) aren't inert shielding gases at all. In fact, the CO2 component is quite the active component, reacting with the weld metal and thus for example creating the silicate islands we all know (brown spots at 4:09). Highly simplified, but you get the idea. Over here, when an active gas component is present, it is called MAG welding - metal active gas welding.
The only metals welded with MIG that I'm aware of, are Aluminium, Titanium and Copper - not including very special metals like Zirconium. There, pure Argon (I1) or mixtures of Argon and Helium (I3). Pure Helium (I2) is rarely if ever used, because it's harder to initiate an arc with it (high ionization energy).
The very olf welding machines use a heavy transformer, which, as I have been told by the old guys in my company, creates a great performing arc, but controls are very limited. Mostly they are extremely inefficient when compared to power sources utilizing modern transistors for the power unit. One would be hardpressed to find anything else anyway nowadays.
So old machines can still work great, as we can see here! Maybe you could even use the old power source with a more modern external feeding system NOT situated on the welding torch itself. By the way, sometimes this is still found with Aluminium welding, but has largely been eliminated by good Push-Pull-systems.
Sorry for the long post! Cheers guys, keep up the great work!
Mig or mag neither one is the correct name for the welding being used. GMAW or gas metal arc welding is the correct term.
@@leroy420b that’s not FCAW? Looked like a flux core mig welder
@@leroy420b GMAW, or Gas Metal Arc Welding, is the general term for this process, including both MIG and MAG.
The original process used pure argon. Then CO2 was introduced and it was called CO2 MIG. Now even the big US companies accept MIG as jargon.
One neat part about the CO2 is that it is split apart at the wire and recombines at the weld pool, affecting the characteristics of the welding. That's part of it being active.
This is one of the coolest videos I've seen recently I love seeing history and how far we've come and everything about the 50s is like a fever dream
That welder is from the late '70s AKA 50 years ago not from the 1950s
Mad respect for the senior mechanics out there who used and may still be using these older welders. They have the skills and the muscles to handle such machines.
One of our new miller welders went out at work one day. Coil overheated and melted through the insulation. Maintenance said they didn't have any replacement welders except one that has sat in the shop since the beginning of the company. An early 70's AirCo and I have to say. That was the absolute smoothest welder I've ever used. Good old crank handle tombstone
I just want to point out, the graphics in this episode are amazing and I appreciate seeing all of the improvements on the channel
I'd love to have that old dinosaur welder.. We had one just like it in my collision repair class and it worked just as good(sometimes better)as the brand new welders we had..
I will bet the house that the old welder has a higher duty cycle than the new one. also was the same wire used in both welders?
There seems to be a lot of variables that were not considered in this test.
Also the brand new out of the box mask would have same problems if it was dirty and set up to full darkness.
I'd still weld with a 30 years old mask if I could find a headband for it, but now I use newer mask with peeping window.
And mostly on newer automated mask I'we handled they actually have smaller window on them than on an older masks.
And my eyes get sore using automated masks, they have short moment before darkening even when set to fastest setting
@@felixchaus I agree, there are a fair amount of applications where a non-darkening helmet is better
@@nathanaelhiebert4590 could you give some more examples out of curiosity? I use a 3 panel auto darkening helmet and the only time I've ever had a complaint is when I'm wedged under a car and can't turn my head the way I want
I think they should make more up to speeds
I'm surprised you don't have a 240V circuit in your shop.
I'd take one of those old machines over the new ones. They will weld every bit as well as a modern machine, but are far more reliable, and can run any process with it. Lots of weld shops are still using them today. I used one every dau for awhile. Like them a lot.
I had always wondered how my grandpa got so good at mig welding just casually doing it. But after seeing this I understand that the simple fact he had to put up with this would make him an insanely great welder
I worked for a week in a place making bins and a guy was welding pieces a few feet from me. I though i was far enough away but at the end of the day I found out that the right side of my face was sunburnt.
The lesson? If you are anywhere near a welder in operation, cover up.
You weren't sunburnt. You were arc burnt. Arc burning is a lot worse than sun burning.
It really depends on experience when it comes to welding.
Too true
This is a great video to start with. There is so much involved with welding. I've been doing it for 20 years and I really think this was a great jumping off point for people. New welders are easier to get going. Older welders are still great machines but some headaches may be there. Either way there was some cringy moments but a great video nonE the less! The welding community thanks you.
This was pretty cool to see that a 50 year old welder still can compete. Miller Electric was founded in Appleton, WI, which is 10 minutes from me.
Nice Zelda item pickup sound at 9:24 btw.
This is gonna be interesting to see. For my first welder, I bought this ridiculous 12V battery powered welder barely used from army inventory (If you wanna look it up, it's Goweld brand I think).
My main concern is that it's quite a bulky welding gun, so I'm interested to see how you guys do with the old welding gun.
I remember that huge mig welder from shop class and it was clunky. It was also hard to learn with an angry shop teacher yelling in your ear. "Your doing it wrong."
That's exactly how I learned to weld - with my farmer uncle screaming at me "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG...!!!"
Despite working in one of the most modern steel mills around, we still work with these old machines and masks x)
Only the newer workshops have the more modern masks and machines.
It's badass that y'all kept at it with the old boy. Thanks guys
My dad was a production welder back in mid 70's through to 80's, so he probably used something similar to the old behemoth. Through the 90's, he was the neighbourhood welder that everyone knew about, but just using sticker welder on most materials, with great success.
5:45 no way the gas is working on that one. polarity might even be backwards.
Sounds like it or they just don’t know how to set a machine
I have a small flux core welder the size of a shoe box. It's pretty cool, and sufficient to weld up to 3/8" steel.
Self shield?
@@kevinkanning4970 yeah, the wire has flux embedded in it. its a pretty handy welder for small projects and tight places.
“Safety gear is on” proceeds to use grinder without face shield
Lol I was cuttin yesterday while barefoot in shorts and no shirt. Probably dumb. Got fucked up by a grinder a few years back. 18 staples and 32 stitches.
It looked like he had a flap disc on, do a shield isn't strictly necessary.
Or a handle, or a guard,
Great demonstration on the advancements of MIG welding. Only one tip from a welder, get used to the push technique and try to use that more as it'll be much easier to see where you're going and cover more surface area. Pulling might achieve deeper yet narrower penetration but you would be surprised how much stronger a weld with more surface area, like the push technique can be in most scenarios. Here in Northern Ireland, the pull technique isn't even taught on my courses as MIG doesn't create slag and rarely warrants it.
All said that old Miller welder is pretty amazing. Not just a 50yr old design, but a 50yr old machine with decades of use on it. Not much tech from 50 years ago can contend with modern day/top of the line, counterparts.
Yooo keep up the awesome content donut watching from Australia
aye mate same
Same mate
+1
“Aussie Aussie Aussie” I agree, also same here
“Aussie Aussie Aussie” I agree, also same here
Wow. I know a lot of places don't come with 240V outlets built in--the amount of applications is pretty limited--but in a warehouse/garage setting like you guys are in you'd think they'd put at least one? Garages are most often one of few places where you might actually use it.
Strange, but even weirder is that you guys haven't already had someone put one in!
Even if they had a 240V receptacle, it likely wouldn't have been 3 phase anyway.
480v would be 3 phase
American moment
3 phase isn’t cheap. When you are doing pretend work for the TH-cam’s, it just wouldn’t be worth paying for. Of course if they had any clue as to what they were doing, that machine probably could have been setup to run on 240v single phase in less than 10mins.
Right? I have 3 of them in my garage alone! 1 for water heater, 1 for dryer and 1 for my EV charger.
Solid testing, I appreciate the effort you guys put into your content, keep up the good work 👍
3:40 the electrons are actually going the other way. Your "ground" is actually "positive" and the electrode wire is "negative." Otherwise you'd be welding onto the wire, not into the base metal. That's why AC welding is so messy, it flips back and forth 120x a second.
great video, you should try out stick welders next. pipe liners live by the older welders because they create a softer more consistent arc!
Its all about welder not welding machine
Awesome video guys, love seeing good content on a great channel about welding. I started in the industry in 2009 in South Africa and it's taken me to very interesting places in the world. Flip top helmets arent all that bad though. With practice, keeping them clean, and selecting the correct shade for the material and process, they are just as good, if not better than auto darkening helmets, which, if they "lose sight" of the arc, by the sensor being obstructed in positional welding, they can flash on you, which is a sure fire way to hurt your eyes and mess up your weld. Still though, SOOOO cool to see proper welding videos, been watching for ages, but this one definitely gets the subscribe!!
Definitely had troubles with an auto-darkening helmet being partially obstructed and flashing, and trying to reposition myself under a truck so the lens didn't have anything in front of it, only to realize the front spark shield thing was dingy and blocking part of the light. Auto-darkening helmets are great but can be problematic when you work in dirty areas and stuff.
Ended up with a few seconds of flash total trying several things to get the sensor to pick up, assuming each one would work before finally just taking it off and resting my cup in position and doing a series of heavy tacks to get things put together temporarily. turning up the sensitivity is the only thing I found to make it actually work how it was supposed to a little later.
If you're looking through the lens of an auto darkening helmet, you'll never get a a true flash. Even when they're not activated, they filter 100% of the UV from an arc. Safety tech is way ahead of human brains.
@@InchFab oh, rad. Well, it gave me a real fun headache anyway.
@@LifeInJambles Totally agree. Add to that the risk of damaging a good auto-darkening hood. A GOOD auto-darkening hood is going to cost $300 to $500. A fixed shade hood is going to cost 1/10th of that. If you're in a rough environment, it's a lot of risk with a nice hood. I suppose since this is a car channel-not one about structural welding, I suppose this isn't a HUGE risk. I'm talking about structural outdoor stuff.
@@GeekInJeep I mean if you're doing stuff on dirty old trucks and just prepping the area to be welded, using self-shielded mig and pretty up close to the weld with the spatter and grinding dust (including some greasy flap disc work that probably produced some smoke)... there are definitely plenty of situations where automotive stuff can be pretty messy. That's how I fouled my lens.
Definitely a situation I don't expect to do most of my welding in, and I should have just disconnected the axle and did my work on a table but.... it seemed like a lot more work and I didn't see any reason the work shouldn't be done in-situ at the time.
I did welding at college. We had a machine we used for MMA which our tutor, at 70 years old, said HE'D been taught to weld using it. Compared to the other machines, it'd strike arcs easily, the strength of the finished products would be unparalleled and the slag coating would come off very easily.
They don't make them like they used to. They really don't..
While I get where your coming from it seems you were using flux core arc not gas metal arc(MIG)
@@goldzeriteminer No it was MMA, manual metal arc/stick welding. The machine was shaped like a box, except absurdly heavier. It didn't even show a readout for the ampage, just a dial and that was it lol
That's awesome. They both performed equally, it's just that the old welder needs a lot more finishing prep
There is nothing wrong with old welding hoods. Alot of welders, to this day, prefer the flip lense. And the lenses only cost $2 a piece here in Texas. The clear ones u can get at your job for free if you have a tool room. The older welder machine you guys used seemed to lack voltage and gas flow. And all my weld tests have been either welded on both sides (with a back gouge), or with a backing strap. On plate at least. Either way, love y'all guys content.
I still prefer the old style welding helmet. Much better vision through the glass while welding. The automatic screens are handy for TIG welding though
Are you adjusting your helmet?
Should have a dial that starts are G ( for grinding) and go up from there, on the first level of auto darkening you should be able to see everything very very clearly when welding, almost like not having a mask at all, cept green - ish 😂.
At full darkness levels it's about the equivalent of old school welding mask or goggles.
Sorry what? How? Go try a 3M SpeedGlas and say that again,.
@@PBMS123 3m are terrible screens. Currently have an the latest Optrel that I supply to all my squad. I just prefer the glass.
Wouldnt the older welder win since it shows a reading of force and didnt bend as easy? Seems the new one is a softer weld.
I believe that has more to do with the material and a higher temperature. I'd be willing to bed it would also crack significantly easier
That's literally just the difference between the input voltages, the older 240v is applying a lot more heat and penetrating the material allowing the plates to join easier.
@@xtr0city current, not heat
That seemed like awfully thick steel to be trying to weld on a 120v, 15a circuit. 120v units are inherently underpowered for anything serious. 4 grand is an absolute joke for that output.
@@chimrichalds5205 4 grand is a joke for that millermatic. It's severely underpowered and kinda sucks all around. Multiprocess machines are terrible unless they're from ESAB.
Came here expecting a 50 year old man fighting a welder😔
Underrated comment for sure. I read the title and thought the same thing
Same here bro
other welders do every day 😂
keep this series of old vs new goin!
50 years ago one of the only reasons to use mig was production work. Using a spool gun with long leads was the only way to be somewhat “mobile”. You can’t push wire that far. Now days you can just run a small suitcase welder and a ton of extension cord. I would love to see that thing run rod. Probably lays it in there like butter 🧈
The old one will most likely outlive the new one lol.
Also, the sensors in the hood don't look for "bright light", they just look for IR/UV light.
God I bet you’re fun at parties.
Does that mean if I pointed an IR blaster or TV remote at the mask that it would darken? Is IR bad for your eyes?
@@axiom.ai.obviousbattletank7139 every single thing in the universe is bad for you
I'm honestly so impressed that the 50 yr old welder performed as well as it did.
I don’t like the auto darkening lenses because I know light itself is faster than the how fast the sensor can detect it. I always get the lenses that are already darkened. 👍🏼
The old miller machine can actually be set up on a modern wire feeder box as well the large portion can aslo be setup to tig and stick if you know how and the welding hood should be picked by personal preference and the task at hand
This is a neat video of old vs new, but to really get the old welder you have to think about when it was new. Back the the most common form of welding was stick welding, which is quite a tricky skill. A MIG is '72 was definitely welding easy mode.