Turning my Quadra into the MYTHICAL Power Macintosh 700
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2021
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Today we're turning the Quadra 700 into the mythical Power Macintosh 700, using a Daystar PowerPro 601 accelerator that radically changes the entire architecture of the computer. Just how much of a difference will it make, and can we install a completely unsupported version of MacOS?
Thanks for the soldering wizardry, Steve @Mac84! Check out his repair video on the Daystar PowerPro here: • Saving a Cursed DaySta...
🍎 VCF East: vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintag...
🍎 My Quadra 700 vertical snap-on foot: www.thingiverse.com/thing:486...
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#Quadra #PowerPC #Macintosh - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Watching this on a modded 2008 mac pro, I can totally understand how someone would keep an old Mac running for years and years after it's deemed obsolete haha
Yes! I love my 2009 Mac Pro. It's chock full o' RAM and SSD and AMD RX580 vidcard goodness.
@@andycraig7734 Yeah, the cheesegrater macs were really ahead of their time, I think they represent the last in a golden era for apple RE their design ethos.
Whilst the performance of the new M1 and M2 computers is staggering, the lack of upgradability and their deliberate dumbing down computers to arbitary product tiering for marketing purposes and their weird locking hardware to cripple reparability is really dissapointing from them. I'll probably have to upgrade my mac pro eventually to a more relevant machine because of my work but it'll be sad day when I do.
I have both a fully upgraded 2012 Mac Pro and an upgraded Quadro 700, but without the PPC upgrade. They’re both stunning machines
@@little_fluffy_clouds it'd a testament to apples former good hardware design that decades-old machines can be bought right up to date with software hacks and still perform fairly well. I doubt very much the 2019/2023 Mac Pros will be usable 10 years from now
There is a fairly rare Amiga 1200 upgrade that provides both a 68060 and a PowerPC603. They run in concert. So you could have an mpeg library that's powerpc native running alongside the OS that is ostensibly 68k code running on the 060. It's called the Bizzard PC and it was made by Phase 5.
23:28
Even if it is for just a singular frame, leak is leak. It's a Quadra 950. ;)
Hahaha you caught it!!
@@ActionRetro Yea that is going to make a great a/ux server. I was going to say workgroup server. But apple loves to play with names. Like the Centris and Quadra 650.
@@ActionRetro Runs A/UX, is tall, gotta be the quadra 950
This was my first guess at the beginning.. single dark frame at the end sure looked about right. :-)
The most dangerous thing a YTer can do on camera is SMD capacitor replacement. #AskMeHowIKnow
Great video as always 👍
Eek, really?
@@DKJones96 There is two way to remove SMD caps :
the "straigtforward" one is to melt the solder and remove the cap.
the "cursed" one is twisting the pads and tearing the legs from the cap with metal fatique.
some got great results with the first one, others with the second one. It's personal preference and experience
You missed a chance to put "This Mac Does Not Compute" in the thumbnail, so Colin gets a kick out of that.
Small correction re. Classilla: it is modernized version of Mozilla 1.3, while Firefox derives from the later Mozilla 1.7. I think the only component from Firefox in it is the Firefox 3 javascript engine
You beat me to it, I was just about to say exactly the same thing.
Of course, on the modern web it may as well be Netscape as far as pages actually working.
@@kargaroc386 While Classilla's support for HTML5 / CSS3 / anything modern javascript is pretty lacking, I think you're underestimating just how bad Netscape was. If nothing else, Classilla supports Crypto Ancienne, which allows it to load HTTPS websites
The Quadra gets Quadruple performance and then it's not a Quadra anymore.
Interesting.
hmmm maybe he should call it the Octra now?
@@JessicaFEREM 4 times 4 is not 8, but 16
Hexdecra?
now its the sexdecupla
@@Dew397 Just rolls of the tongue
Those who saw Mac84's video will know what that chuckle after the emphasis on "Changes will take effect on SHUT DOWN" is about.
I *LOVE* the googly-eyed ZIP drive, I should do the same thing to mine. I've never even thought about it and it's been with me for well over twenty years.
Ikr it looks so cute
Reminds me of the Eyes desk accessory on the original Macintosh that follows your mouse cursor where ever it goes...
At around 14:30, I started shouting at my screen, "TURN OFF USE QUICKDRAW!"
Im so hyped everytime you upload !
Haha thanks!
Dude you have quickly become one of my favorite channels. I love all these old macs and all the projects you do. From dumb stuff like the cursed Mac to coll stuff like this and helpful projects for everyone like the two websites you made to help old macs and other machines to be able to use the internet I just love this channel and hope you keep it up in the future cuz I get so happy Everytime you upload
Thanks Jared, that really means a lot!
I did watch the video of Steve at Mac84 and he does some of the most incredible repairs.
Great Video and good to see it working in your Quadra.
I think the machine you had under wraps was an Apple Workgroup server 95.
Someone tried to sell me something like that and told me I could not install standard Mac operating systems because it only ran AUX.
I think it had 604 processors inside it and loads of bays.
Steve Macs/Mac84 is going to recap a 66mhz board that failed on me! Great dude.
Steven is a genius
I remember that Chime. It's not really a Powermac one, it's more from a Performa 5300 AIO. That was our first Mac we ever owned.
People didn't do all these expensive upgrades to run games, they made money running things like graphics applications. At the time these came out I was running rooms full of macs and unix machines that would chug all day on a few problems and if an upgrade board keep an older machine around that we already had a handle on it was often the route we chose. The Daystar board with the extra ram was aimed at graphics houses that were looking at either spending the money on another SGI at $60k or upgrading a mac and getting another year out of it. We were dealing with single graphics files of 200MB and the first Mac to have over 200MB of RAM didn't come out until 1995.
@HoboWild On something really challenging you had to learn all the tricks on how to get your one application to run. There were also a lot of DSP cards and special hardware cards that took much of the load off the Mac. The shots of ResEdit brought back tons of memories too.
Ah the Power Mac upgrade card. That chime was used on both the PPC upgrades and on a handful of the weird 52/62/53/63xx models (there was also the guitar strum on the x100 NuBus models and then the classic Power Mac chime introduced with the PCI models and PPC PowerBooks).
There were actually three types of PPC 601 upgrades: this one as the 040 PDS type that most people know about (basically in two different forms with and without RAM expansion), an '030 PDS version for some of the Mac II family (Turbo 601), and another for the Quadra 630 and other compact Macs that physically displaces the '040 on the logic board, with DayStar being the primary developer of all of them though Apple and others did sell some variants under their own brands. Other than the Turbo 601, neither version was worth it beyond 1998ish for most uses (outside of nerd cred) unless you get the really high-end Daystar RAM expansion version. I mean by 2002 a proper PPC such as the 7100/66 was about $100 from a reseller in the back of MacAddict magazine so spending ~$400 on a PowerPro card (and that's not even the high-end one with the RAM slots) that occupies one and blocks out another of your few expansion slots and gives only a mild bump to an old machine (you're still stuck to a 25MHz system bus, 2MB max VRAM, and 30-pin SIMMs in the Q700) isn't really worth it, especially if the reason you're buying the card is to preserve your investment in peripherals that would end up displaced by the upgrade and/or would work fine if moved to a NuBus Power Mac.
The Turbo 601 only worked in my IIci PDS, it did not work in my SE/30 w/ the day star adapter, or the Mac IIx with the Daystar adapter, or on the MacII with the daystar adapter. It also worked in the IIcx, but ran at .... 33Mhz... ( for a 60 Mhz 601... ) . The IIfx was another story.
The PDS card worked in a Q700/Q900/Q950/ and a Q800, but not the Q660av or the Q840av. I never bothered to try a Quadra 610 because it was a bad machine.
You must have been there. Thanks.
@Action Retro back in my Mac days a guy who worked at Apple setup a Mac BBS using the famous FirstClass software, he ran it on a Quadra 950 and it was open to the public.
It’s worth noting that wolfenstein on the PC originally ran at 320*200 resolution, so it may not entirely be down to poor optimisation so much as more than four times the number of pixels being shoved around.
Pathways in Darkness and Marathon are properly optimised - how well do they run?
I was going to say the same thing. The fact that it runs as well as it does in 640*400 on the 040 is pretty impressive to me.
The secret computer looks like an Apple Network Server.
Is it a Quadra 950?
@@DocLondom Yep that's what I think too. It's somewhat obvious lol.
Yeah Workgroup Server is my guess too. Literally couldn’t get more appropriate for hosting a network game!
23:28 knew it, it's a Quadra 950.
I slowed the video to .25 and seen the top part of the case
might be a Workgroup Server 95
Every time I see the Quadra, I remember a time back in the late 90s when I was tasked with surplussing our fleet of those machines where I worked. It was a research university where we had over 200 of the things. We sent off the monitors first, then boxes and boxes of keyboards, but the machines had to have their drives removed to ensure we didn't let any data out of the office. As we pulled the drives and re-assembled the machines, we built a castle with the things. They made great building blocks. I wish I had pictures of the castle fort we built in the front conference room. It is a horror story now, all those perfectly working machines being sent off to surplus where they either went to a prison for education classes or e-waste...
I’m starting to think all e-waste should get de-batteried and stored locked for 20 or 30 years, to gauge how important the stuff is with hindsight and how much we can reclaim the rarer metals etc from.
@@kaitlyn__L I once heard somebody refer to mining landfills for metals, and I think that could be a really good venture in the next 20 to 40 years
@@locnar1701 oh yes, I can absolutely see that. We can recycle the plastics (or convert back into oil potentially, or eaten by bacteria or fungi) fairly easily in another decade or two as well. But certainly there’s bound to be a bunch of metals in there.
I've seen about half a dozen videos from you now, and I like them! I used to do crazy things like this back when RISC PC was a thing, but nobody was impressed by Windows 3.1 running in a window under the RISC OS! Even the teacher who "owned" the computer (he had it in his classroom, anyway) laughed me out and ridiculed me for doing it, and I didn't get to play with it again after I did that, he acted as though I'd been worshipping the devil or something!
Control Strip! DropStuff with Expander Enhancer! Those were the days. And I remember hearing about the Daystar PPC upgrade because on the old site that had all the original Mac startup and error sound effects, one of the most unique sound sets was from the Daystar-accelerated machine. Also not surprising that you had to resize Wolfenstein to 320x200 mode to get decent performance on 68K, because that was its native resolution on the original DOS PC's it ran on. Thankfully by the time I tried running it on a Mac, I had a 120mhz PPC. Also very cool seeing the old Zip and Jaz drives! I still need to find a Zip drive again so I can transfer some old data from that era, and seeing yours still working gives me hope. And finally your constant pointing at the screen every other word was a source of endless amusement for my wife. :) Keep up the great work.
Picked up my first car a few weeks ago and been putting some work into it and watching a bunch of retro videos here. Its a 5.0 V8 fuel injection 89' Camaro.
But, its nice to get back into my nerdy retro tech comfort zone lmao.
You think Apple people can get on one sometimes? Read a GM forum lmao
It doesn't really change the architecture of the computer, that's still a Quadra 700 but with a different CPU instruction set.
Still the same 68k bus, expansion slots, peripheral and memory controllers etc
Some of the PPC cards for the Amiga really took it far though, like the Cyberstorm PPC604e adding a 604e, RAM, PCI slot, SCSI controller and a 3D GPU to a 1990 68030 Amiga 3000, almost turning the motherboard into a plank just to hold the card. 😅
13:33 Poorly optimized? buddy come on, you don't play a texture mapped 3D game in 640x400 on a 486 either :)
640x400 is there for future proofing the game, probably intended for the 68060.
Apple never cared about games, there isn't a proper 320x200 display mode like on normal computers, resulting in black bars.
That's not the developer's fault.
I guess one more way to "max" the Quadra is by adding an accelerated graphics card.
Steve Does Great Work Im Glade He Got Your Daystar PowerPC Board Curse Free That Is One Mega Upgrade My Friend Great Video
the rarest stuff in your collection is ALWAYS cursed which is why i love it
So you payed unspeakable amount of money to get a machine that is still awfully slow. You've made my day.
I had a Quadra 800 at work, it was a beast at the time. I also got the PowerPC upgrade card. It was an interesting time.
Loved the Quadra 800's in my college computer lab!
behemoth guess: QUADRA 950
may also be workgroup server 95 which is basically a quadra 950
punching it in before the end of the video
Early small-pitch quad flatpacks like that were notorious for spontaneously desoldering from their pads. No idea why. But I've done my share of reworking them.
Have you thought about trying to fix the chipped corner of the case cover with baking soda and super glue? I got the idea from Tech Tangents and tried it myself on a Toshiba CD-ROM drive and it worked! Just don't use the gel type of glue and keep plenty of Emory boards (popsicle stick shaped nail files) at the ready. You may have to paint it after it dries.
LOL! Certificate printed on an Imagewriter!!! That sh*t’s LEGIT AF!!!
You managed to find yourself a Quadra 900/950?! Very nice. I'm looking at this local ad for one, 400 bucks is a bit steep, but I might take the plunge for the A/UX experience.
Part of this reminds me of hacking Psalm OS apps. Usually a simple hex edit would allow you full versions. Good times lol.
If you could ever do an exploration of the IIci Daystar Digital P33, I would love to see that. I have it, and yet it doesn't speed up the IIci. Sure, it SAYS in the demo that the machine is running at 50mhz. However, nothing is actually faster. I wonder if the proper drivers are lost to time.
I have my IIci from back in the day and I love it. I was still using it for web access until 2001.
Hey! I come from Reddit. Seriously enjoy these vids, man. Please keep them coming :)
great video! I personally loved system 8.6 over any mac os software ever made. love your PowerPC Quadra
Another excellent and interesting video, thanks.
I wonder... If one was to pull a SCSI slot-loader out of an old iMac would it work in your Quadra 700..?
If so it wouldn't take much case-moding to cut a slot for said slot-loading CD drive...
...or if that horrifies you the smaller mechanism could be Velcro'd somewhere inside the easily opened case.
It would be sacrilege to modify these rare guys now, even if the case top practically begs for it. :-) They do make external SCSI drives though . . .
I haven't seen a talking hand since.. the Thing on Addams Family
The first time I touched a Quadra 700 was at RIT for a preview weekend. Such an awesome machine.
Oh man, I remember getting a brochure from RIT as a high schooler! I ended up staying in my home state of Texas for financial reasons, but RIT definitely looked like a great place.
Now we need the "AV" version of the PPC Jurassic Mac
The internal graphics in the G700 was a big step up as it had its own graphics memory but it is not accelerated and very slow compared to later NuBus graphics cards. Your problems in Wolfenstein might actually be the slow internal frame buffer.
Hey man, gz on getting that sponsorship money :) your stuff deserves it!
Also: I love the OS8&9 UI. I wish you could get it as a modern WM theme for Linux and BSD! Like, the bottom left pull-out menu is perfect for modern quick settings! And something similar, AmiWM (IIRC the name) is an entirely new WM to make it be like an Amiga, which is way more involved!
I assume that the PPC board is really just a single-board Power Mac that just uses the Quadra as a video display/IO
gotta be a quada 950, please
Woot, PM700 goodness. Good thing you have the IKEA sheet covered *redacted* :) , and have that as the A/UX machine since Apple never went PPC with A/UX.
I really like how your hand talks... :)
Nedry would be happy having that much power 😄
When I played the first roller coaster tycoon 30 minute demo on my old PC I could play all night because the clock was running so slow. At first I thought the demo timer was broken. It was playable though because it was only the time that ran slow but the mouse movement was fine. The cash went up slow though because the park guest all moved so slow.
Great video!
this is the first video I’ve seen from this channel and my immediate impression is that this guy knows only two hand gestures, ✋ and 👈.
I was curious about what that ResEdit modification did so I did some research.
I couldn't find a good resource about what the 'gusd' resource represents though you'll find that it's a common subject for modification by people trying to get newer (speaking relatively) versions of MacOS to run on older hardware.
Anyway, we can intuit that resource must contain a table of supported gestalt values/machine IDs, since if you look @ 11:01 you can see that the Machine ID of the PowerMac 700 is listed as '116.' 116 is 74 hex, ergo we must be overwriting a system with the machine ID of 31 (0x001F) to force this machine into being supported.
Machine ID 31 is actually pretty mysterious since apparently it was added as "Paula's Desk Macintosh" with one of the PowerPC enabler files before being removed again (search for rgaros.nl if you wanna see a brief comment about it), so I'm guessing this weird, seemingly internal machine seemed like a good candidate to overwrite.
9:45 Hi Sean :D (You hoped sb will notice)
I have a strange feelin it's a workgroup server you got for A/UX.
Is the Behemoth a Quadra 950? I have one of those that was used as an Avid video editing system, it worked brilliantly until the HDD died :/
It's a fun hack, but almost useless. The PowerPC 601 makes for a terrible 68k emulator, and when hobbled by an extra slow BUS, an even worse PowerMac. :P The upgrade also blocks one of the only TWO NuBUS slots in the 700, which is unfortunate.
can you link the video about the repair in the description? it didnt pop up on the video
I had one of these for a long time in the late 90s early 00s! I think I had a total of 24mb of ram in mine. I know I had the ppc upgrade card in the pds slot but I forgot exactly which unit or how fast it was. I don't remember having any issues installing (or reinstalling) 8.6 or even 9. Why not test Marathon?
I was going to guess a WGS. It looks like either a WGS 95 or WGS 9150, but with a CD-ROM drive added.
Is it possible to use that CD-ROM drive as an external SCSI device? Like in an enclosure or with an adapter cable or something? I mean, opening the system up like that is fun, but I was just curious.
I bet that's a Apple Network Server 500 behind those sheets :^)
EDIT: It's not :P
EDIT 2: It's a Workgroup Server 95
Only uploaded 15 min ago? Sweet.
Question, why is everything you own "cursed"?
Nice video Sean
Nice! What’s the trackball you have?
I am going to buy a G4 Mac Cube next year once I save up the money. Does it have capacitor issues ?
How is your external cd ROM anthropomorphic
I tried wolfenstein on my iPod touch 1 and it ran quite well
I wish you would run the full MacBench test so we would also see graphics tests compared to the 6100
It would be amazing to take a Mac Mini M1 or M2 and somehow find a way to interface one of the Thunderbolt ports with that strange CPU bus slot.
1:45 is it the workgroup server 95?
@23:28 - Is that a WGS or a Quaddy 950 you have? Either are desirable.
You made this the same day i watched the original Jurassic park like that was incredibly realistic for 93
I could be wrong but I seem to remember all these crazy old Apple upgrades always cost like 85% the cost of an entirely brand new system
Is it an LC 500 series?
Under the sheet is likely a WGS95 or Quadra 950/900.
I've a 12" G4 iBook here, kept mainly for initialising storage devices for PPC, and running a 320 GB HDD. Might upgrade it to SSDone day, if I can find something which will work in it. The iBook will need stripping right down (again!) to make the change. About 40 minutes of work, just to install it.
And it still has a good Apple battery inside it. 😉
Speaking of PowerPC daughter cards, does anyone know if G3 upgrades to a Powerbook 1400 need a working battery to boot the machine? I can’t get my 1400 to boot with the upgrade. 🤔
If I can get my hands on half the upgrade cards you do I would be a happy guy.
There's a very closely related Daystar card for 68030 machines, which apparently some lunatics have gotten working in their SE/30s. Now that'd be a video :)
Can you bump your CRT refresh rate from 60 to 75 hertz? That might help the slowdown in games like Wolfenstein.
RGB Hi Res monitor is locked at 66Hz.
So does this upgrade act like a Power Macintosh 6200 series? Where they use a bridge chip to interface Power Macintosh processors to a 68040 system bus? If so, Speed Doubler 8 is known to significantly improve performance!
Cool vid earned a sub :)
How do you get the money for these expensive upgrade cards?
'bout the heat sink goop. Smaller than a grain of rice, and then seat the heat sink backwards, then forwards, then pull off all the excess, so it does not direct heat back into the chips substrate ( which probably caused the problem in the first place ).
You paint it on, not smash it on.
I had one of these, but the bus speed on my 7100/80 beat it hands down.
Again, turn off the desk picture, and you will gain performance
there is a patch to get 320x200 wolf3d in fullscreen on the macgarden
If you have 4 times the performance from a stock quadra, wouldn't it be called an Octra now?
Quadra²
Sixteendra?
I actually made a 2-part video on a Daystar Genesis MP that my dad had around 2009. It might be the only videos of a running Genesis MP on TH-cam, but I've unlisted the videos as they're pretty lousy, unscripted messes. If you can look past the cringe and awful camerawork, you can check them out here: th-cam.com/video/4eQR86PUK6c/w-d-xo.html and here: th-cam.com/video/kUfbMR_gCV4/w-d-xo.html In case you're wondering what happened to it, my dad sold it shortly after that video was made.
Oh lord... now he has a cursed Quadra 900/950/WGS95! The cool thing about this card is the fact that you can put the machine into straight stock mode so you could still run AU/X on it if you wanted.
Hahaha
Every one of your videos makes me want that sweet Apple branded trackball.
Only problem is that there has to be a 68000 to PowerPC translation LUT to convert 68000 to PowerPC code.
that PC had the same BG i have =D
Weird that no comments mention the dust on the screen throughout the video...
my q700 has this card too and i have a nubus pc card in it too.
Dammit you duped me so hard there at the end
That's got to be a Quadra 900 or 950 under that sheet!
I used to play so much Wolfenstein 3D on my Performa 475. I used to make the stupidest levels in the editor.
Wish they had a Wolfenstein for my Mac Mini.
The CPU card appears to also have an ARM coprocessor. Do it really links three architectures, one of which powers the latest Macs today.