Why use printer profiles - why printer ICC printer profiles improve your photo printing.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มี.ค. 2021
- Keith Cooper looks at the basic purpose of ICC printer profiles and how using them for your photo printing improves the quality and reliability of your photo printing. How printer profiles allow you to use a wide variety of papers for your photos.
Part of a series of videos looking at aspects of colour management for all areas of your photography.
There is lots more info on the Northlight web site
www.northlight-images.co.uk/wh...
For a way of making your own profiles see
www.northlight-images.co.uk/i1...
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I have no idea why you don't have over a million subscribers, your content is gold. Thank you so much for sharing such good information.
Thanks - I only started doing the videos last summer, so it will take a while to get to that many!
@@KeithCooper I've been looking for this but couldn't find it anywhere: I just installed the .am1x on the Pixma Pro-200 but the paper doesn't appear on the list (on the printer). I don't if I supposed to select another paper on the printer or it should be on the list
@@santosdiego it works the similarly with the pro-300... have you seen this I wrote?
www.northlight-images.co.uk/custom-media-for-the-pro-300/
Your videos are *so clear and helpful*.
Thanks a lot!
Thanks for taking the trouble to comment - much appreciated
you got some super trippy effect on the bottom/sides of the canvas print, love it with the checker floor, very alice in wonderland, bravo touche
Thanks!
Another excellent video - thanks Keith.
Thanks - there are quite a few bits of colour management stuff I want to see if I can do in 6-8min chunks ;-)
So glad a found your channel, lots of interesting info. Subscribed instantly!
Thanks - do check the written articles as well. I only started the videos last year, there are many more written ones (~1200) than videos...
www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/
Nice one. I'll be waiting for those Color management videos
Thanks - I've a new monitor to test so will be starting with some stuff relating to monitor setup choices, profiles and why prints can never match screens
Glad to have this video, well done.
Thanks - I've a few more colour management ones to do
thanks Keith , some good books i see there also on the shelf :D Cheers!
Ah yes - revealing the true purpose of my 'studio' at the time ;-)
@@KeithCooper need a good 'pizza' book there also :) thanks again for the vids Keith, I am finding my way with my large format latex hp
Noteworthy! Thank you for this interesting video! Thank you very much my friend for sharing, stay connected, please💕💞
Thanks!
Thank you sir
glad it's of interest!
Any advice on which paper varnish to use on matte paper? I have an epson et8550. I ordered a bunch of matte paper. Would like a good varnish for it
I don't ever use it I'm afraid.
I have tried artist's spray fixative in the past
Hi Keith, finding your videos super helpful thank you!
I'm looking to print my designs onto Pinnacle inkjet greetings cards premium semi-gloss 300gsm and/ or the matte version on my Canon Pixma MG6450. I cant find any printer profiles. Do you have a recommendation?
Ah, there are no profiles for that printer. I would suggest picking one of the Canon ones for either semi-gloss or lustre (these normally get installed with the printer driver) - see my videos about printing cards and the test image for more (the videos apply to lots of printers, not just the one in the title)
Keith Cooper Keith Cooper thanks so much I’ll give this a try!
I found that video so helpful for realising my Poundland cardboard is a likely culprit for my black based artwork printing with a grey tone. Thanks again :)
Hi Keith I always follow with great interest the analyzes you perform on printers, but if there is one thing that interests me most are the ICC profiles and the tools to make them. I have already given it a try by purchasing the SpyderX Studio spectrophotometer but with very bad results (perhaps due to my inexperience). I would love to buy a reliable tool and I was thinking about the X-Rite i1Studio but reading your reviews I can't understand how much I will be able to improve compared to the SpyderX Studio. Can you give me some advice? Are there good quality spectrophotometers for creating ICC printer profiles with costs under € 1500? Thank you
The best cheap way is to buy an i1Pro spectrophotometer from eBay and learn the ArgyllCMS system - it's free and can produce splendid profiles.
BUT - it is a lot of work to learn, unless you particularly like command line driven software.
argyllcms.com
That's why I've never quite got round to reviewing it...
The i1Studio with the latest software is much easier to use and can give noticeably better results than the SpyderPrint (which is NOT a spectrophotometer).
I really like the SpyderPrint software, but it is somewhat let down by still using the old 'spectrocolorimeter' device
@@KeithCooper Thank you Keith
Hi Keith! I have zero interest in creating my own profiles. I'll leave that to the experts. My question is where do I go to get paper-specific profiles. (ie: Epson, Canon, Hahnemuhle ) Thanks for all the time you put into doing these videos. I understand about 1/2 of the information...but I always leave more educated. LL
Indeed - making your own profiles is not for most people.
Availability depends on just what printer you are using - the cheaper the printer, the less chance there is of finding profiles from the big names.
Some [UK] suppliers will make custom profiles if you buy paper from them
Hi. Let‘s say I use Hahnemühle Baryta and the ICC profile provided by them. Would a self made custom profile with my printer and the Baryta still give me more consistent results? Thanks!
Maybe, maybe not. Several factors at play...
Modern printers are much more consistent, which means that paper maker's profiles are more likely to be appropriate.
Then again it depends on what equipment and software are used - both for your own and manufacturers profiles.
I build my profiles with bigger targets than some paper suppliers which can make mine different - not necessarily better.
Making your own profiles comes into its own with unknown papers and non OEM inks - for well known papers and OEM inks it's potentially an expensive hobby for variable results ;-)
I get to test new software/hardware, so that's my excuse ;-)
Hi Keith, Just Subscribed.
I have an HP M255DW Laser pro and sometimes my Colours print out different than the scree Colours will I need to do an icc profile to correct this Issue.
Any help will be appreciated
Regards
Geoff
Hi
Essentially, laser printers have long been considered 'unprofileable' in the normal use of icc profiles.
Profiling can sometimes help, but it's something you would have to do yourself, which means a lot of expense and a hefty learning curve.
You're effectively stopping on the road, asking for directions, and I'm saying:
"Ah ,I wouldn't start from here" ;-)
There's no simple way I know of to address this - you might ask on the Printing forum at DPReview.com, but make sure to specify the system and software you're using - the printer model number alone is not enough info
Great explanation, as always. One question I have for years and no one seems to address that often is a very basic one. When you print using Photoshop, Lightroom or Epson Print Layout, in which colorspace should be the image? There are some that defend that they can be in ProPhoto, others on AdobeRGB and lots of them on sRGB. What is your take on this?
it depends... I almost always work in Adobe 98 in 16 bit, this gives a large space, almost entirely visible on my monitor and fitting most images of the sort I work with. For export to web or clients it's reduced to 8 bit sRGB JPEGs. Relatively few of our clients would get any benefit from a larger space - those that understand colour spaces get the choice ;-) The only time I regularly work in Prophoto is for black and white, where I'm going to be converting the colour image to B&W, and want the absolute maximum of information to get my greyscale tonal variations from.
The only time a printer profile is used for me is inside the printer driver - there are few good reasons for converting a file to a printer profile.
As to CMYK - we only supply images in CMYK on written request. I need to believe that the person wanting the CMYK files understands colour management ;-)
@@KeithCooper So, what you are saying is that you should not convert to anything when printing. The printer driver does it. Of course, the Epson printer uses a color gamut that cannot be represented in one of these colorspaces. I was wondering if there is a relation/conversion (a match) we could access. For example, compare the gamut EPSON P900 is able to achieve comparing to Adobe RGB.
@@inthecity1972 The conversion occurs somewhere between photoshop (my own choice for printing) and what gets sent to the printer.
Actually I don't know precisely where in the printer data pipeline the conversion is carried out (on my Mac usually by the OS colour management - windows I've even less of a clue ;-) )
I could do the conversion in Photoshop and then send it to the printer with no colour management, but why buy a dog and then bark yourself... :-)
What a printer can manage is what's represented in a printer profile, where I print a target with colour management turned off and measure it to make my icc profile. There are profile analysis tools that let you compare profiles of any sort.
The profile describes the paper/printer/ink combination, so it's always what a particular paper can achieve with a printer, not just a feature of the printer/ink
Hi Keith, My current 3rd party printer won't supply me with an ICC profile ( very annoying!) - Will a Spyder Print calibrator allow me to generate a jpeg target file for me to send for them to print and then I can produce my own ICC profile for their printer/ink/paper combo? I know it's working backward, but then I can calibrate my screen to their printer so I know what I'll be getting when developing in Lightroom. Thank you :-) 📸
I'd personally question the competence of a printer who won't offer profiles - what are they hiding about their process/workflow?
It might work, but it's profiling on profiling...
I'd send a known good test image to check them out -
IMHO soft proofing is much over-hyped by the Lightroom training industrial complex ;-) It's a tool for sparing use, not an integral part of a print workflow ;-)
I bought Canon PRO 300. Should I use ICC profile for BW photography? Does it make any difference for tones? I use Canon's Professional Print and Layout Software. Thanks!
It depends on paper and other factors
See this and the specialist B&W printing parts/article
www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-pro-300-printer-review/
Hi Keih I just subscribed to your channel. I was told to use CMYK for this printer profile, but that's not a profile, so I was told to use a Generic Gracol profile. Can you explain that?
For what printer? Printing what sort of image from what software?
Hi Keith,
Please can you help me with a print problem I'm having? I'm a Designer/Illustrator working in Photoshop & Illustrator.
When I print from my Epson ET8550, the colours are coming out very different to my artwork on screen. They seem to be really saturated and very different to what I'm designing (I understand that colours will always shift a little here and there) but this is hugely different!
I've picked the generic 'Epson Matte' paper option and have set it to 'Photoshop/Illustrator manages colours'.
Is there something you think I'm doing wrong? It's driving me crazy!
Thank you in advance!
Sarah
A few thoughts...
Calibrate your screen
Use the correct icc profiles when printing, for the paper
Avoid CMYK unless you can precisely explain why you need it ;-)
See the main 8550 review - it includes all the profiles I created
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/
Try printing with EPL
Is it possible to get to an accourate result with an other printer profile? For example 2 printers for the same brand that use use the same ink and with the same number of colors?
It depends - the Epson P700 profiles are interchangeable with the P900
There is so much more to how the ink gets on the paper that 'same ink' is just one factor ...making it generally unlikely (especially since you said 'accurate')
Hi Keith, this maybe a stupid question! but are colour profiles also important when printing black and white only? Thank you!
It depends... If you use the B&W print mode of your printer driver then they are not used. If you just print normally, but with B&W images then yes they can help. See my video about the B&W test image and all the B&W articles on the Northlight site
www.northlight-images.co.uk/digital-black-and-white-photography/
@@KeithCooper Great! will do. Keep up the great work Keith.
I have been struggling with getting a useable profile with Spyderprint. I have printed the targets using Adobe Print Utility to ensure there is no colour profile from both Windows and Mac systems and scanned them numerous times. The icc profiles are not useable and standard profiles from Canon much better (Pro100s).
The SpyderPrint system works well on some papers and less well on others. I've several (40+) reviews/articles on the Northlight site (they predate my making videos to support reviews).
www.northlight-images.co.uk/category/articles-and-reviews/datacolor/
In particular some papers with certain brightening agents cause issues.
I rather like the datacolor software from a design and ease of use POV, but it does suffer a bit from only having the 1005 colorimeter as its input device. This has been speeded up from the original version, but is still the same measurement technology.
If only Datacolor would produce a reasonably priced spectrophotometer to go with the system, they would easily give the i1Studio package a run for its money.
X-Rite needs the competition.
Hi Keith, love your videos I am new to printing photos as I have just retired.
I have a Epson ET -7750 and have A3 A4 and 5 x 7 paper by Marrutt I only have a Windows 10 computer and I think you were saying you only do profiles for apple so can to point me in the right direction to obtain a profile for my printer or am I better asking Marrutt for advice?
Regards kev. Keep the videos coming...
Thanks
I make the profiles on Macs, but they are applicable to Mac and PC.
However it's not a service I offer commercially, so best check with your paper supplier - several do custom profiles if you buy paper.
@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith for your reply. I. Not doing it for commercial reasons just for a hobby so could I purchase a profile off you .
I understand if this is not an option and I will also contact a paper supplier too.
Regards kev..
Thanks, but it's partly a licensing thing. I've have a lot of hardware and software from X-Rite which I've used for testing over the years. However, whilst I can give the profiles away as part of my review/testing work, I can't sell stuff - remember I'm a working photographer and this is technically part of our company's business.
@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith I fully understand
Regards kev...
I acquired a secondhand Canon 10S printer a while ago but am struggling to get the prints accurate to my screen. I don't have a monitor that I can calibrate, I use a laptop and have an old Samsung tv/monitor. I have been using fotospeed PF Lustre paper with their profiles for my printer. The images look similar on the laptop, monitor and on my phone, but whenever I print they come out with a slight yellow tint. I am softproofing with the relevant profile. Do I have to accept that I need to buy a new monitor to get a more accurate colour representation?
Print a known test image [I've loads of them on the Northlight site] with the correct profile for the paper.
Then look at your monitor to see the differences - it will give you a good feel for how much out the monitor is...
Prints can never truly match a screen - but you are pushing things a long way with that setup
@@KeithCooper Thank you, I'll give it a try.
Yes, that has definitely been very useful. The image on my monitor looks cool compared to the print. At least I have a good starting point now.
Sorry if this is a silly question but I'm new to all of this. Am I right to say that, If I print exclusively in black and white I don't have to worry about any of this?
Thanks
Caula
A very reasonable question.
If your printer has a B&W print mode in the driver, it does not use these profiles, however, some printers produce better B&W prints when using a profile and printing normally 'in colour'.
Depends on the printer and also paper - If I have reviewed it, there will be a specific B&W print section in the review
@@KeithCooper Many thanks for your reply. 👍
I now know why I should use a colour profile but not how. Can you point me in the right direction? Do I alter some settings in the printer or on whatever computer program I am using (more than likely Affinity Photo2 on a Macbook pro running Big Sur or my Mac Mini M2 running Ventura and also whilst on my pc it's running on Windows10).
It's very dependent on which software you are using, so look at printing resources for that software. Without knowing what printer it is there's not much more I can add
@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith, it's my new Epson ET3850. BTW why are your sponsor links to th US and not UK?
Ah, see my 2850 review for more [I believe they are similar]
As to the links - Amazon UK deleted my account a few years ago - I need to find something else for the UK! I'd forgotten to fix this...
Hi Keith I've gone out and got the Epson sure colour P900 and I'd also bought the Color Checker Studio now when producing ICC profiling what printer settings in the printing preferences tab what settings do I put them on 1/MEDIA TYPE 2/PRINT MODE =COLOR 3/LEVEL MAX QUALITY OR HIGH QUALITY 4/MODE EPSON STANDARD s,RGB OR ADOBE RGB OR PHOTOENHANCE OR ICM OR OFF (NO COLOR AJUSTMENT ) If you could help it would be very appreciated many thanks mark
I'd suggest having a look at my reviews of the i1Studio package - lots of details on settings
Note that ccStudio is the same product at the moment [Calibrite will bring out new paper profiling s/w at some point]
Start here
www.northlight-images.co.uk/i1studio-calibration-profiling-review/
Note the two updates.
This one covers the 'data save' workflow
www.northlight-images.co.uk/i1studio-update-1-1/
Assorted features
www.northlight-images.co.uk/i1studio-update-1-5/
@@KeithCooper I will try and find it but have you got a bit of a idea on setting
Yes - read the reviews! I write reviews to help people use kit as well
I don't use this kit for actual work - so that's when I tried it last. The written reviews are always where the detail goes, even with the videos I now make.
I do have some videos about using the i1Studio, but they are always secondary to anything written
Great video, I am sending my image to the printer and he has sent me the icc profile , when I use it for proof the image becomes dark and colours are less saturated, what do I need to do now to make the image like the one I like, do I work on the image using the proof profile and try to make it look like the original? and then send it?
Thanks in advance
Mark
Assuming your monitor is correctly calibrated and profiled... and at a reasonable brightness setting... and with a reasonable gamut.
First up, the print will never match the screen since proofing is only ever an approximate guide. So, saturation and brightness changes are to be expected - this depends on the paper choice.
There are several approaches to this - one is to set the soft proof and then add some adjustment layers (in photoshop) to get the image more like you want. The stronger the adjustment required, though, the more likely you are to be disappointed ;-)
Personally I'd get a print made of a known good test image to evaluate the abilities of the print maker and accuracy of their profiles
@@KeithCooper thank you so much for your advice. Keep up the good work 👏
Hi Keith, I recently purchesed my first printer for printing photographs. I have much darkroom experience but am so excited with my EPSON P900. I learned a lot from your channel. I highly appreciate. I did the monitor calibration using calibrate display pro, I uploaded all necessary ICC profiles. I started with Hahnemühle papers. What happened with my first prints is really interesting; I accidentally print the RAW format version of the same picture and I ended up getting most correct looking colors. All my other prints were .tif They looked OK until I see the print from RAW version. Something is off with the .tif prints. How is this possible? What could have possibly gone wrong?
Glad to have helped!
But... What software? What system?
I always suggest initially printing with Epson Print Layout, a basic Epson paper, and a known test image - just to make sure things are working OK.
Starting with a third party paper [no matter how good] is, I'd suggest, not optimal - how can you tell if stuff is working? Just too many variables.... so, lots of things could 'go wrong' ;-)
See the main review.
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-sc-p900-printer-review/
@KeithCooper Thank you for getting back to me, Keith. Since I didn't know what info necessary to ask it properly, I just didn't want to load my question with useless info. That's why it had to be a stupid question. I use Lightroom to print on my MacBook Pro (M2) with the most recent Sonoma 14.5 I have ViewSonic monitor but I guess it has nothing to do with it. About the paper, this is what I could find at the local store. I will watch your review again. Thanks...
BTW It's the written review, not the video.
The detail is always in my written stuff - the videos are supplements ;-)
I thought you were talking about the 21 min. video! This review is amazing! I need to take my time to do my homework on the review. Thanks again.
Some paper manufacturers, for specific papers and printers/inks, provide their own ICC profile. Yet they also a ICC profiling service. Why? I mean, it is the same paper and same printer/ink - so, in theory, their ICC profile should be all you need. There should be no need for you to do a test print and get them to do a specific ICC profile just for you.
But since they do offer such a service, logically, there must be enough of a variance in paper/printer/ink for each user to have to get their own personal ICC profile.
What say you about this?
Have you ever compared your personally created ICC profile with the ICC profile supplied by the paper manufacturer? If so, how different were they?
For popular higher end printers, profiles are offered with papers as an extra reason to buy the paper
Offering custom profiles will appeal to those wanting a 'premium' service
Both sell paper - that is what it is about.
They appeal to different potential users - it's marketing :-)
Now, printers have improved in linearity, stability and unit to unit consistency over the years. This means that custom profiles are of less importance than they were. Of course, you tend to be selling such products to older markets, who will still attach a 'quality' premium to custom profiles.
Now, my profiles are generated with many more patches, I also make sure that RelCol and Perceptual RI's look different. I'm also making profiles to get the feel of a paper and printer combination. I look at those big profiling targets visually as well, to look at media choices and overall 'feel' as well.
Are my profiles 'better'? maybe - it's also why I give them away for free for non commercial use with reviews [they help 'sell' my reviews] ;-)
Aah Marketing.
At the moment, using paper seller's ICC profiles, my prints look great. Admittedly, I am not going for colour accuracy.
Maybe one day, if I win the lottery, I'll get a spectrophotometer and do my own ICC profile. Well, I can dream, right? 😀
my photos come out much to dark.need some help
start here
www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/printing-paper-reviews-articles/
...especially this one
www.northlight-images.co.uk/why-prints-look-wrong/