Please keep us posted ! You're one of the first guys on the tube to have one. and you helped me decide to buy one I appreciate all of your videos. and and that you are really putting this bike through its paces thanks and good luck to you and Baja keep the videos coming please
I’m not a professional mechanic, but I have been in the auto industry for 10 years prior to my current career. I’ve seen examples of the KTM’s scorched cam issue, and compared to the pictures of your bike those look 5x worse than what you have going on there. There’s no discoloration on the cam lobes themselves that would indicate excessive heat ie improper oiling. There is definitely wear present but I would agree it doesn’t seem catastrophic.
I did some suspension mods on my Transalp XL750R to take the place of my Tuareg 660 because I love the platform so much on the Tuareg but I dread the past aprilia reliability issues that seem very possible to plague the Tuareg 660.
The RS660 engine that I have shows it was made in China because I disassembled it and that what is stamped on those parts so I was wondering if the engines that they use on the Tuareg 660 are the same location plant so far so many screws that I have taken off when working on my Tuareg 660 seam really soft like pot metal. And I have seen camshafts from China that are so soft that the lobes simply wear down within a short time. My background is automotive mechanic for over 40 years mostly, but I have worked on motorcycles and rebuilding the engines from the mid 70s.
I guess you have pictures of those Aprilia engine parts where it is stamped that they coming from China (are you somehow meaning that they are not good as they come from China?) ? And also something showing the softness of those cams (not sure if you are still talking about Aprilia engines cams, but never mind)?
@@giamaica7595 a lot of bikes now have engines built in China, including BMWs and Hondas, as well as KTMs...if it says 'made in China' on castings, that just means those parts originated in China.
@@richardsimpson3792and…? Did I say that part with stamped «made in China» are not made in China? I asked for pictures of Aprilia engine parts whit «Made in China» stamped on it
Hi i am also a toureg owner and tech of 30 years and unfortunately i would say the mechanic is correct, those cams are pretty much scrap. Yes they will go back and shim up and the bike will run but you are loosing lift on the valves due to the worn cams. Also the head is scored which you may get away with ,hard too tell from the pictures but i would be putting cams in if it was my bike😢 What ever you do keep us informed how you get on
As an experienced engine rebuilder and race car mechanic, I can say the cams in the flicker link look normal to me. I don't like the look of the oil in the one picture. Personally, I prefer Liqui Moly motorcycle oils. I recommend changing your oil at half the recommended distances because oil is cheap; even expensive oil is cheap compared to the cost of cams, bearings, etc and labor not even accounting for the stress and frustration factor. I have a Tuareg 660 and also two Ducatis. I found clutch performance is better and overall engine noise is less with Liqui Moly oils.
I really appreciate you keeping us up to date on this and posting the pictures! I'm no mechanic either buthat drain plug mag looked pretty trashy (metal?). When I bought my Tuareg the Aprilia dealer mechanic recommended that I change the oil every 3000 miles (one change in between each scheduled change). I have been doing that. I'm still exploring the idea that it might be caused by low rpm off road riding that would drop oil pressure and reduce oil flow (pressure) to the top end. I've heard conflicting ideas about this.
I’m starting to hear about the same problem with several units. And the fact that Aprilia is not taking care of it means I’ll never buy an Aprilia and I used to like their stuff. But I’ve heard of other people having things blow up and if they’re not gonna take care of problems, they’re gonna lose their customer base.
@@vladimirilic3593yeah, actually was another guy bs-ing abou scorched cams on the forum where the mechanic commented, but the results is the same. No scorched cams. Just bs.
@@vladimirilic3593 No he didn't- You're talking about my post on the Tuareg forums. The shop manager said I had scorched cams and then changed his mind when I picked the bike up at the 12K service. The tech later said on my post on the forum that my cams were pitted which still isn't great to hear. Also, it still eats 200Ml of oil every 1K miles so it's not BS.
Now.. what exactly is a scorched cam?… 40 years as a engine rebuilder, never heard of that term. The posted pictures no zero signs of excessive heat (blue) , slight cam lobe wear as well as the cam caps… and that’s it…granted 20k+ miles in a short period of time , which is more than 99% of the Aprilias in the world will ever see… Were there any other indicators?.. excessive oil consumption , fouled plugs, loss of power, noisy valve train? As for the “fluff” on you drain plug, that amount I could see upon your first oil change, but 20k miles, that’s a bit to much. Best bet is to send the used oil for analysis thereby ensuring what the identity of the glitter is…
looks like small pieces of metal went to the hole lubrication system.... they should give you pictures with oil filter disenabled (paper condition/ metal impurities etc) ... they should cover this issue by the warranty ...
It does not seem scorched. No blueish discolor. No signs of overheating. However, hard to tell from these pictures, cam bearing surface finish looks poor on these cams. Avoid long idle runs, as it's hard on cams. The worst thing you can do to your engine is to start up and let it idling for 10 minutes to slowly warm up. That habit ruins even car engine cams and lifters over time due to low idle oil pressure, cold oil and cam load/friction is the highest on idle too. Also this engine has cup lifters. These were common in the past but they are being replaced by roller rockers in new engine designs, because modern lightweight oil designed for best fuel economy does not provide lubrication good enough for cup lifters. That means, avoid lightweight grade oil for cup lifter engine. 10w40 is minimum no matter what Aprilia recommends today. 5w30 is good enough for roller rockers only.
A few odd aspects to this unhappy story, and unfortunately you are subject to opinions at several levels, without seeing the actual problem for yourself, first hand. (I should add that I have worked on motorcycles for over 50 years). But if they didn't need to change any valve clearance shims, that would suggest that there has been no significant camshaft wear - only surface 'scuffing'. However, I wouldn't be happy to go adventuring knowing that wear has occurred at just 20,000 miles (32,000 kms). Many reasons why this might have happened, and heat may well be one. The small oil capacity may be another, and more frequent oil changes may have reduced this problem. But you shouldn't have to change the oil more frequently than recommended unless you are racing it. Having said that, I changed the oil in my new Transalp at 6,000 kms, just to be safe, rather than leave it in there for 11,000 kms in its early life, and may continue with the 'in-between' oil changes. But the pictures don't show a serious wear pattern on the cams to my eye - more the effects of debris in the oil. The deposits on the oil drain magnet suggest wear elsewhere in the engine/gearbox to me. The gearbox a prime suspect. All the best with your Aprilia. I have liked Aprilia products in the past, and test rode the Tuareg when I was thinking of a new mid-sized ADV bike. A few things were against it, like the price (half as much again compared to the Honda, here in Australia) the height, the seat, and the heat. But it is a great machine to ride - no doubt about it - and far superior to others in its class off-road. The Honda better on sealed roads, with a more relaxed feel, but needs suspension improvements. Good luck with yours into the future. I can only suggest, as others have, to change the oil in-between the recommended intervals, and see if it remains sound. And keep checking the magnet... As to it "blowing up"? Unlikely, with just minor cam scuffing, but it will let you know by rattling if the cams are seriously failing! But I suspect there is a wear issue elsewhere in the engine/gearbox, with the scuffing of the camshafts more an indicator of another problem, as against being the primary issue.
Thank you for your comment! I was changing the oil at the recommended interval sometimes before that by a few hundred miles.. I'm going to get the extended warranty and keep on keeping on. :)
@@PNW.Voyager This has me a bit worried as I just bought a new 24 last week... I think I am going to use motul 7100 and shorten the oil change intervals. The manufacturer seems to deny a lot of warranty claims and that's not very good.
Its looks like something comes bettwen cams and head.... i dont belive bad material. If so then its same shit if you buy exc500. @PNW Voyager i wonder your temp gauge , how many bars they show ? 1/4 ? 2/4 bars?
Bro... I have 2020 himalayan 411 and got over 80k KMS on it.... and never faced anything like this... I used to think Royal Enfield has got the worst quality...dang
No he didn't- You're talking about my post on the Tuareg forums. The shop manager said I had scorched cams and then changed his mind when I picked the bike up at the 12K service. The tech later said on my post on the forum that my cams were pitted which still isn't great to hear. Also, it still eats 200Ml of oil every 1K miles so it's not BS.
24,000 miles and the cam faces are showing wear, hmm? It would have been nice if you would have shown us some close up pics. What was your oil change internals? (You said, this was your second service, so you've only changed the oil twice??? 12,000 between oil changes??? Are you crazy?) If you're going 12K miles between oil changes, that's the problem. On my old 2008 KLR650 I still change the oil every 2000 miles or so, that's why it's still runs great after 15 years. It only takes 2 and 1/4 quarts, buy your own top quality oil and change it yourself. It's easy. Motorcycle cams can be changed out real easy, they're probablly about a $100 a piece, takes about a hour to do. If you can feel the wear across the cam face, it's ruined, change the cams, then sell that damaged bike, cause their are a lot of other engine parts that are prematured worn out also (main bearings etc) and get another new Tuareg 660 and with your new bike change your oil at 500 miles then every 2000 miles after that, and don't rev the shit out of it. high RPM's and dirty oil wear motors out prematurely. I've been riding and repairing bikes and cars for for over 55 years, learn to do yourself. Do NOT buy extended warranties, you see how they denied your warranty claim. What do you think they'll do when you make claim on your bike after 4 or 5 years?
"On Time" but, at what mileage interval??? anything over 3000 miles between oil changes on a high revving, hot running engines is a recipe for early engine wear. The manufactures say that you can change your oil every 10,000 miles or whatever is a "Sales Gimmick" because they want you to buy bike every 3 to 5 years now days. Burning oil is different. Burning oil is a symptom of worn piston rings, or worn valve stems. That's usually caused by, high mileage, or running the motor at high RPM's alot.. @@PNW.Voyager
@@PNW.Voyager i would also change engine oil at 5000 km / 3000 miles on this engine because oil quantity is very low in this engine. The lower the quantity of oil the lower the effective lifetime (amount /%/ of shit it can contain). It's simple as that and applies to all combustion engines really. I'm also owner of Touareg 660 and over 10 years manager of car repair workshop.
@@PNW.Voyager I thought an earlier video claimed there was excessive oil consumption? What are those metal particles in the oil? You can get wear metal analysis done on used oil. Run it for say 1000 miles, drain the oil and send it to a lab. If wear metal particles are still present they can tell you what the metal is, which should give an idea of what component it is from.
Please keep us posted ! You're one of the first guys on the tube to have one. and you helped me decide to buy one I appreciate all of your videos. and and that you are really putting this bike through its paces thanks and good luck to you and Baja keep the videos coming please
I’m not a professional mechanic, but I have been in the auto industry for 10 years prior to my current career. I’ve seen examples of the KTM’s scorched cam issue, and compared to the pictures of your bike those look 5x worse than what you have going on there. There’s no discoloration on the cam lobes themselves that would indicate excessive heat ie improper oiling. There is definitely wear present but I would agree it doesn’t seem catastrophic.
Keep us posted on this friend, You got an awesome channel and would love to see you go past a 100k subscribers!
It’s unfortunate to see Piaggio hasn’t changed.
I did some suspension mods on my Transalp XL750R to take the place of my Tuareg 660 because I love the platform so much on the Tuareg but I dread the past aprilia reliability issues that seem very possible to plague the Tuareg 660.
The RS660 engine that I have shows it was made in China because I disassembled it and that what is stamped on those parts so I was wondering if the engines that they use on the Tuareg 660 are the same location plant so far so many screws that I have taken off when working on my Tuareg 660 seam really soft like pot metal. And I have seen camshafts from China that are so soft that the lobes simply wear down within a short time. My background is automotive mechanic for over 40 years mostly, but I have worked on motorcycles and rebuilding the engines from the mid 70s.
I guess you have pictures of those Aprilia engine parts where it is stamped that they coming from China (are you somehow meaning that they are not good as they come from China?) ? And also something showing the softness of those cams (not sure if you are still talking about Aprilia engines cams, but never mind)?
@@giamaica7595 a lot of bikes now have engines built in China, including BMWs and Hondas, as well as KTMs...if it says 'made in China' on castings, that just means those parts originated in China.
@@richardsimpson3792and…? Did I say that part with stamped «made in China» are not made in China? I asked for pictures of Aprilia engine parts whit «Made in China» stamped on it
Hi i am also a toureg owner and tech of 30 years and unfortunately i would say the mechanic is correct, those cams are pretty much scrap.
Yes they will go back and shim up and the bike will run but you are loosing lift on the valves due to the worn cams.
Also the head is scored which you may get away with ,hard too tell from the pictures but i would be putting cams in if it was my bike😢
What ever you do keep us informed how you get on
Curious how many miles you have your Tuareg? I really like what these offer and live close to a dealer but this is a bummer
As an experienced engine rebuilder and race car mechanic, I can say the cams in the flicker link look normal to me. I don't like the look of the oil in the one picture. Personally, I prefer Liqui Moly motorcycle oils. I recommend changing your oil at half the recommended distances because oil is cheap; even expensive oil is cheap compared to the cost of cams, bearings, etc and labor not even accounting for the stress and frustration factor. I have a Tuareg 660 and also two Ducatis. I found clutch performance is better and overall engine noise is less with Liqui Moly oils.
Thank you!
I really appreciate you keeping us up to date on this and posting the pictures! I'm no mechanic either buthat drain plug mag looked pretty trashy (metal?). When I bought my Tuareg the Aprilia dealer mechanic recommended that I change the oil every 3000 miles (one change in between each scheduled change). I have been doing that. I'm still exploring the idea that it might be caused by low rpm off road riding that would drop oil pressure and reduce oil flow (pressure) to the top end. I've heard conflicting ideas about this.
lol same shit as with ktm 790
I’m starting to hear about the same problem with several units. And the fact that Aprilia is not taking care of it means I’ll never buy an Aprilia and I used to like their stuff. But I’ve heard of other people having things blow up and if they’re not gonna take care of problems, they’re gonna lose their customer base.
"I am starting to hear..." and " I've heard...?" Something more specific about where you heard, from who, which and how many units?
The mechanic reached out there where no scortch cams at all it was all bs
@@vladimirilic3593yeah, actually was another guy bs-ing abou scorched cams on the forum where the mechanic commented, but the results is the same. No scorched cams. Just bs.
@@vladimirilic3593 No he didn't- You're talking about my post on the Tuareg forums. The shop manager said I had scorched cams and then changed his mind when I picked the bike up at the 12K service. The tech later said on my post on the forum that my cams were pitted which still isn't great to hear. Also, it still eats 200Ml of oil every 1K miles so it's not BS.
Now.. what exactly is a scorched cam?… 40 years as a engine rebuilder, never heard of that term. The posted pictures no zero signs of excessive heat (blue) , slight cam lobe wear as well as the cam caps… and that’s it…granted 20k+ miles in a short period of time , which is more than 99% of the Aprilias in the world will ever see… Were there any other indicators?.. excessive oil consumption , fouled plugs, loss of power, noisy valve train? As for the “fluff” on you drain plug, that amount I could see upon your first oil change, but 20k miles, that’s a bit to much. Best bet is to send the used oil for analysis thereby ensuring what the identity of the glitter is…
Good question 🤷🏻♂️
I was in Baja in November. Huge numbers of Fish Taco's will help you to forget these hassles. Cheers
looks like small pieces of metal went to the hole lubrication system.... they should give you pictures with oil filter disenabled (paper condition/ metal impurities etc) ... they should cover this issue by the warranty ...
Thank you for the update you just helped me make my decision for 2024 I'm definitely going Japenese...
It does not seem scorched. No blueish discolor. No signs of overheating. However, hard to tell from these pictures, cam bearing surface finish looks poor on these cams.
Avoid long idle runs, as it's hard on cams. The worst thing you can do to your engine is to start up and let it idling for 10 minutes to slowly warm up. That habit ruins even car engine cams and lifters over time due to low idle oil pressure, cold oil and cam load/friction is the highest on idle too.
Also this engine has cup lifters. These were common in the past but they are being replaced by roller rockers in new engine designs, because modern lightweight oil designed for best fuel economy does not provide lubrication good enough for cup lifters. That means, avoid lightweight grade oil for cup lifter engine. 10w40 is minimum no matter what Aprilia recommends today. 5w30 is good enough for roller rockers only.
Original oil grade is 10W50
A few odd aspects to this unhappy story, and unfortunately you are subject to opinions at several levels, without seeing the actual problem for yourself, first hand. (I should add that I have worked on motorcycles for over 50 years). But if they didn't need to change any valve clearance shims, that would suggest that there has been no significant camshaft wear - only surface 'scuffing'. However, I wouldn't be happy to go adventuring knowing that wear has occurred at just 20,000 miles (32,000 kms).
Many reasons why this might have happened, and heat may well be one. The small oil capacity may be another, and more frequent oil changes may have reduced this problem. But you shouldn't have to change the oil more frequently than recommended unless you are racing it. Having said that, I changed the oil in my new Transalp at 6,000 kms, just to be safe, rather than leave it in there for 11,000 kms in its early life, and may continue with the 'in-between' oil changes.
But the pictures don't show a serious wear pattern on the cams to my eye - more the effects of debris in the oil. The deposits on the oil drain magnet suggest wear elsewhere in the engine/gearbox to me. The gearbox a prime suspect.
All the best with your Aprilia. I have liked Aprilia products in the past, and test rode the Tuareg when I was thinking of a new mid-sized ADV bike. A few things were against it, like the price (half as much again compared to the Honda, here in Australia) the height, the seat, and the heat. But it is a great machine to ride - no doubt about it - and far superior to others in its class off-road. The Honda better on sealed roads, with a more relaxed feel, but needs suspension improvements.
Good luck with yours into the future. I can only suggest, as others have, to change the oil in-between the recommended intervals, and see if it remains sound. And keep checking the magnet... As to it "blowing up"? Unlikely, with just minor cam scuffing, but it will let you know by rattling if the cams are seriously failing! But I suspect there is a wear issue elsewhere in the engine/gearbox, with the scuffing of the camshafts more an indicator of another problem, as against being the primary issue.
Thank you for your comment! I was changing the oil at the recommended interval sometimes before that by a few hundred miles.. I'm going to get the extended warranty and keep on keeping on. :)
@@PNW.Voyager This has me a bit worried as I just bought a new 24 last week... I think I am going to use motul 7100 and shorten the oil change intervals. The manufacturer seems to deny a lot of warranty claims and that's not very good.
thanks
Its looks like something comes bettwen cams and head.... i dont belive bad material. If so then its same shit if you buy exc500. @PNW Voyager i wonder your temp gauge , how many bars they show ? 1/4 ? 2/4 bars?
Please put the pics to google drive. The adds on flikr are horrific.
Bro... I have 2020 himalayan 411 and got over 80k KMS on it.... and never faced anything like this... I used to think Royal Enfield has got the worst quality...dang
Surely they measure the cams.... Do not think they would deny you of a simple cams, just for the fun of it...
the nose on those cam lobes looks worn to me.
The mechanic reached out clearing that there where NO SCORTCH CAMS!!! THIS VIDEO IS BS
did you see the pics? The journals are have some deep grooves.
No he didn't- You're talking about my post on the Tuareg forums. The shop manager said I had scorched cams and then changed his mind when I picked the bike up at the 12K service. The tech later said on my post on the forum that my cams were pitted which still isn't great to hear. Also, it still eats 200Ml of oil every 1K miles so it's not BS.
24,000 miles and the cam faces are showing wear, hmm? It would have been nice if you would have shown us some close up pics. What was your oil change internals? (You said, this was your second service, so you've only changed the oil twice??? 12,000 between oil changes??? Are you crazy?) If you're going 12K miles between oil changes, that's the problem. On my old 2008 KLR650 I still change the oil every 2000 miles or so, that's why it's still runs great after 15 years. It only takes 2 and 1/4 quarts, buy your own top quality oil and change it yourself. It's easy. Motorcycle cams can be changed out real easy, they're probablly about a $100 a piece, takes about a hour to do. If you can feel the wear across the cam face, it's ruined, change the cams, then sell that damaged bike, cause their are a lot of other engine parts that are prematured worn out also (main bearings etc) and get another new Tuareg 660 and with your new bike change your oil at 500 miles then every 2000 miles after that, and don't rev the shit out of it. high RPM's and dirty oil wear motors out prematurely. I've been riding and repairing bikes and cars for for over 55 years, learn to do yourself. Do NOT buy extended warranties, you see how they denied your warranty claim. What do you think they'll do when you make claim on your bike after 4 or 5 years?
Hello, all intervals were done on time and or early. The bike does not burn oil
"On Time" but, at what mileage interval??? anything over 3000 miles between oil changes on a high revving, hot running engines is a recipe for early engine wear. The manufactures say that you can change your oil every 10,000 miles or whatever is a "Sales Gimmick" because they want you to buy bike every 3 to 5 years now days. Burning oil is different. Burning oil is a symptom of worn piston rings, or worn valve stems. That's usually caused by, high mileage, or running the motor at high RPM's alot.. @@PNW.Voyager
@@PNW.Voyager i would also change engine oil at 5000 km / 3000 miles on this engine because oil quantity is very low in this engine. The lower the quantity of oil the lower the effective lifetime (amount /%/ of shit it can contain). It's simple as that and applies to all combustion engines really. I'm also owner of Touareg 660 and over 10 years manager of car repair workshop.
@@PNW.Voyager I thought an earlier video claimed there was excessive oil consumption?
What are those metal particles in the oil?
You can get wear metal analysis done on used oil. Run it for say 1000 miles, drain the oil and send it to a lab. If wear metal particles are still present they can tell you what the metal is, which should give an idea of what component it is from.