Power is only one of the reasons you kiai, and in kendo, that's usually not why you do it. You can also use it for intimidation. Another reason is to gather spirit. Sometimes during a test for a new rank, judges will award the person with the most spirit (read: the person who was the loudest :-P) Also, in kendo, you have to kiai every time you strike, calling the part you are hitting.
IMO the fundamental difference between chudan and jodan is the chance to effectively use oji-waza. From chudan your "strategy can vary from the shikake side to the oji side with ease and in a balanced way, while from jodan you have a wider choice of shikake waza you can use. I think that as always in kendo it comes down to who is able to read, and use his lecture of the opponent and one, in a more efficient way.
I am 23, and please don't talk down to me like I don't understand what I am talking about. I chose my words poorly, and I apologize, but I was joking, not threatening. However, I am speaking as someone who does kendo, and yes, there are right and wrong ways, but they have changed over time. Traditionally, that stance would be "poor," much like both of them taking one hand off the shinai, as they do multiple times during the video. I have been taught traditionally, therefore practice that form.
Yes, there are 5 main kamae in kendo. But you don't see many people walking up to their opponent in hasso. How I was taught was that jodan is an attack stance, not something to sit in for an entire match. Chudan is where things come from, and where things end. You don't start the match from chudan for nothing. I use jodan for attacking, yes. It's how you attack. But to stand in jodan, instead of chudan, as your common kamae isn't the traditional kendo that I was taught.
I see the difference now. Kendo and Kenjustu have different ideas and styles. In kendo we generally use 3. Chudan, Jodan, and Gedan. General, offense, and defense, respectively. This is not to say that you can't attack or defend from one that is commonly the opposite, but you take more risks being in Jodan then you do in Chudan.
Besides, I do not confuse counterattack with defense. A counterattack is a defense. You have to defend the initial attack, in some way, to counter it. Whether it involves contact of the shinai by deflection or blocking, or just getting out of the way. it is still a defensive move.
@rclarked I'd love to hear you say that to my sensei's face haha! He loves defense, but he's practiced it, so he's good at it. Sure a well timed offense is good in some cases, but not others. The key is to be fearless, and men aiuchi is just one of those tactics that uses that. Men aiuchi is offense based. Defense, though it doesn't seem like it, is just as fearless, because you have to defend at the right moment for it to work, which usually is right before your opponent's shinai connects.
@rclarked There's no "this is the way to do it right." in Kendo. If there was, Shoudai wouldn't be in jodan. He would be in chudan because that's what was "proper." I didn't say it wasn't right, I was just saying that I don't like it, personally, as I work from chudan while in a match.
You can be just as aggressive from chudan as you can from jodan. It's just that jodan is a lot riskier. I always have felt that chudan is proper form. A calmer, more relaxed opponent is a lot more threatening than one who is always on the offensive. Chudan has so many advantages, fake outs, tsuki strikes, small quick attacks, kote-men combinations...it just goes on and on. Not to mention that Gohonme Kata is an easy defense against a jodan attacker. Personal opinion, yes. But I'm stubborn. :-P
I was taught a different way, its not going to be the same for both of us. you -can- attack from all the kamae, but usually you are coming from your kamae to jodan. Also, if you believe that all kamae are for attacking, then how do you attack from wakigamae? Or Hasso? or even gedan? If you believe that taking the offensive is more in the spirit of kendo, then you should study more Kata, as the attacker is always the one who dies. Sometimes, a good defender will defeat a fast aggressor.
I have no problem with jodan as a stance itself for certain parts of a shiai. I think you took my original comment as being that I don't like the jodan stance at all. That's not what I meant. I just don't like the kendoka who stand in Jodan for a prolonged period of time during a match. They move into Jodan without any reason for doing so, which is, in my opinion, poor kendo.
I know it's jodan. :-P It's just that in chudan, you can easily defend men if need be, but in jodan, You are constantly defending men, but who cares when kote is such an easy strike for the opponent? Maybe it's just that I like hitting kote in general, and seem to look for that strike. :-P
지금 봐도 여전히.. 대단합니다
legend match
Power is only one of the reasons you kiai, and in kendo, that's usually not why you do it. You can also use it for intimidation. Another reason is to gather spirit. Sometimes during a test for a new rank, judges will award the person with the most spirit (read: the person who was the loudest :-P) Also, in kendo, you have to kiai every time you strike, calling the part you are hitting.
Still beautiful. Everything went too fast.
IMO the fundamental difference between chudan and jodan is the chance to effectively use oji-waza. From chudan your "strategy can vary from the shikake side to the oji side with ease and in a balanced way, while from jodan you have a wider choice of shikake waza you can use. I think that as always in kendo it comes down to who is able to read, and use his lecture of the opponent and one, in a more efficient way.
Ossu
OH! That's Yamanaka sensei among judges!
I am 23, and please don't talk down to me like I don't understand what I am talking about. I chose my words poorly, and I apologize, but I was joking, not threatening. However, I am speaking as someone who does kendo, and yes, there are right and wrong ways, but they have changed over time. Traditionally, that stance would be "poor," much like both of them taking one hand off the shinai, as they do multiple times during the video. I have been taught traditionally, therefore practice that form.
Yes, there are 5 main kamae in kendo. But you don't see many people walking up to their opponent in hasso. How I was taught was that jodan is an attack stance, not something to sit in for an entire match. Chudan is where things come from, and where things end. You don't start the match from chudan for nothing. I use jodan for attacking, yes. It's how you attack. But to stand in jodan, instead of chudan, as your common kamae isn't the traditional kendo that I was taught.
haha, the main thing to jodan is that you don't defend . if you do, you aren't aggressive enough for jodan. ;o
I see the difference now. Kendo and Kenjustu have different ideas and styles. In kendo we generally use 3. Chudan, Jodan, and Gedan. General, offense, and defense, respectively. This is not to say that you can't attack or defend from one that is commonly the opposite, but you take more risks being in Jodan then you do in Chudan.
Besides, I do not confuse counterattack with defense. A counterattack is a defense. You have to defend the initial attack, in some way, to counter it. Whether it involves contact of the shinai by deflection or blocking, or just getting out of the way. it is still a defensive move.
아까운 사범
@rclarked I'd love to hear you say that to my sensei's face haha! He loves defense, but he's practiced it, so he's good at it. Sure a well timed offense is good in some cases, but not others. The key is to be fearless, and men aiuchi is just one of those tactics that uses that. Men aiuchi is offense based. Defense, though it doesn't seem like it, is just as fearless, because you have to defend at the right moment for it to work, which usually is right before your opponent's shinai connects.
it's jodan. ;)
you abandon all defence for attack
@rclarked There's no "this is the way to do it right." in Kendo. If there was, Shoudai wouldn't be in jodan. He would be in chudan because that's what was "proper." I didn't say it wasn't right, I was just saying that I don't like it, personally, as I work from chudan while in a match.
You can be just as aggressive from chudan as you can from jodan. It's just that jodan is a lot riskier. I always have felt that chudan is proper form. A calmer, more relaxed opponent is a lot more threatening than one who is always on the offensive. Chudan has so many advantages, fake outs, tsuki strikes, small quick attacks, kote-men combinations...it just goes on and on. Not to mention that Gohonme Kata is an easy defense against a jodan attacker.
Personal opinion, yes. But I'm stubborn. :-P
was the first ippon as a ippon??? from the video, teramoto's shinai wasn't on shodai's men. any help?
I was taught a different way, its not going to be the same for both of us. you -can- attack from all the kamae, but usually you are coming from your kamae to jodan. Also, if you believe that all kamae are for attacking, then how do you attack from wakigamae? Or Hasso? or even gedan? If you believe that taking the offensive is more in the spirit of kendo, then you should study more Kata, as the attacker is always the one who dies. Sometimes, a good defender will defeat a fast aggressor.
They still had there problems in creating clear openings. A lot of the time it looks like slapping for points.
That kote sounded like tsuba to me..
most likely, because they are trying to fake birds.
I have no problem with jodan as a stance itself for certain parts of a shiai. I think you took my original comment as being that I don't like the jodan stance at all. That's not what I meant. I just don't like the kendoka who stand in Jodan for a prolonged period of time during a match. They move into Jodan without any reason for doing so, which is, in my opinion, poor kendo.
why do they scream like that if they arent using power?
I know it's jodan. :-P It's just that in chudan, you can easily defend men if need be, but in jodan, You are constantly defending men, but who cares when kote is such an easy strike for the opponent?
Maybe it's just that I like hitting kote in general, and seem to look for that strike. :-P
I don't like Shoudai's stance. I know it's a style, but having a Kote open like that just bothers me.