I was skeptical at first, Paulie, because Ali-Frazier I is one of my fondest memories. I listened to this fight on the radio with my dad in the kitchen, then watched it many times over the years. But you make an excellent argument. Protecting the 0 at all costs is one of the worst things in boxing--all these undefeated guys who never fight each other...
He made a great point but he should have distinguished short-term and long-term because short-term that fight propelled boxing but it had long-term implications.
Great video Paulie!!! Ali/Frazier I is a really good shout. But I’d have to go with Leonard vs. Hagler as the fight that ruined boxing because that was the first fight, the first big fight, that was won purely on gamesmanship and cynicism. Sugar Ray showed the boxing world and young up and coming fighters that you don’t actually have to BEAT the man to be the man. All you have to do is look busy and win over the judges and the crowd. More than any other fight, Leonard vs. Hagler led to the era where we got fights like DLH vs Trinidad and countless others: dudes thinking they can just use smoke and mirror to win a strap in stead of heart and soul, blood and guts.
That's a beautiful point and I agree hagler was screwed. And that's the fight that led to stealing rounds being a very prevalent thing. It's like nobody cares who actually wins the fight nowadays or who inflicts the most damage. Hagler never got the credit he deserved throughout his entire career. They loved sugar Ray yet they consistently exploited hagler hearns as the Pinnacle of boxing entertainment but they didn't actually respect the man. Hagler Leonard was a travesty and a sign of things to come. Hagler never truly lost a fight. He was a machine. He always inflicted more damage I don't recall him ever being rocked and he always begged for more recognition his entire career.
@@Rebelconformist82 that's amateur fighting. An actual fight should be who wins the fight otherwise what's the point imagine if every fighter just focused on point fighting we would have aerobics contests.
Thank you for saying what you’ve said here Paulie! We as fans have validated the excuses and made it less likely that promoters and fighters will take the greatest challenges.
Hi Paulie, great topic, and points… I think it was not a particular “fight” per say that changed boxing but the migration from the networks to premium cable subscriptions.
Are you serious Bro? Oscar intentionally avoided Vernon Forrest and Ronald Winkie Wright… they both fought and defeated Shane Mosley who gave them a shot at the title he beat Oscar for 2 times.
Paulie speaking facts about Andrade in context of boxing politics and fan sentiment. Damn shame we never got to see him in the ring with other elite guys in or around his division.
Andrade bringing a good fight is, yes, exactly it!!! So tired of that stupid money argument. Nah, let's just sit and wait on the big money fights until everyone's out of their prime, sitting cold....not fighting at all.
And the worst part about it is people judge these over the hill money fights as if the two fighters were fighting in their prime. In some cases the fighters actually fought in their prime yet people seem to remember the meaningless exhibitions of postprime fighters more like Jones Jr versus Hopkins for example. That's one thing I can't stand when fighters try to pick off Legends post prime just so they have a name in their pocket. I love me some DC but to say you have a win over Anderson Silva means nothing. For Hopkins to say he has a win over Jones means nothing. For Lennox Lewis to think a win over Tyson means anything is a joke and the same for holyfield they weren't fighting Mike Tyson they were fighting a guy with the same name but that wasn't Mike Tyson. Even holyfield admitted this. And Pac-Man Mayweather was probably Manny at his worst I honestly think the Keith Thurman version might have been better. And now we're going to see it with triple G and people are going to actually put stock into it when Canelo schools him what a travesty that situation is. It's going to be three nothing Canelo and people will truly believe Canelo was that much better when in reality prime for prime that's definitely not the case. And I'm a big Canelo fan I think it's hilarious how people completely write him off after the bivol fight.
@@kevinknight8889 the problem is we are to blame. The fans are the one who make these guys popular along with the media But ultimately it's the fans. The fans have allowed the sport to become a clown show. It's gotten so bad that respected boxing people are calling Jake Paul a blue chip prospect. Hugely influential combat sports media like Joe Rogan even. Not sure if Rogan was high when he watched the second Woodley fight or he only watched The knockout but you can't watch the entire fight and tell me that guy is better than 500 amateurs are prospects in boxing. I could literally scour the amateur system and young professional prospects who are more skillful. Which leads to another point can we get real drug testing or are we going to pretend that boxing has real drug testing?
@@jayr7991 Agreed on all points. And just to add a little to the end I thought Triple G won both fights with Canelo. I know people will call me crazy in particular for the second fight. But hear me out. As boxing fans did we not bear witness to Triple G using an excellent jab throughout the fight? As well as good footwork and defense? Admittedly I haven't seen it since it happened so it's possible I may need to reassess. But from what I remember Triple G out-boxed Canelo the second fight. I heard a lot of comments from boxers whom I'm huge fans of say that Triple G ran after his coach called for Canelo to bring the "Mexican" style. I don't understand this. You don't judge a fight based on what the trainer says before the fight. You judge off of clean punching, effective aggression, defense, etc. That being said boxing fans are fickle and will write fighters off as quickly as the media Mr. Malignaggi refers to. And that's what happened with Canelo and Bivol like you said. Canelo will probably stop Triple G this one and people will truly believe he is that much better like you said.
That’s actually one of my top 3 fights ever I love that fight but now that you mention it I get you’re point, Floyd didn’t mess boxing up in the way of it becoming less mainstream in the USA neither did Oscar vs Trinidad this makes more sense.
Don't always agree with Paulie & the Conor/Artem stuff was unappealing but he makes some great points. Also, he deserved a Broner rematch. But I would like to add a series of fights or an era that crumpled boxing. The post prison Mike Tyson era was the beginning of the end. It reinforced everything that's wrong with boxing from building fake superfights to building fake prospects to rewarding a guy for being controversial rather than skillful and prime Tyson I think is arguably underrated but the post-prison era was a clown show. Super fights like Lewis v Tyson, building guys like McNeely, going after belts just for the sake of belts. And hyping a guy for what he was rather than what he is. The worst part of it is post prison Tyson somehow diminishes prime Tyson in many people's eyes even the media. It's quite sad. If you don't have the wherewithal to judge what you are looking at at the time and be confident in that I don't know what to tell you. Fighters aren't the same guys fight to fight let alone during different periods of their career. The late Roy Jones era does nothing to erase prime Jones imo. It's funny because it's not just post prison Tyson it was really post Rooney Tyson. As his foundational pieces began to crumble so did the foundation. Can you imagine if Atlas never left? Everybody talks about buster Douglas but there were signs well before. I think Trevor burbick was probably the peak. Even if you look at the Tony Tucker fight for example you could see signs. I think a lot of people say Michael spinks was the peak Tyson but I believe Mike put it together that night against an opponent who was shook before the fight even started. The further he got away from Atlas, Cus, then Rooney the worse it was. It's funny because I think early post prison or maybe it was the razor ruddock fights but he was asked when he stopped practicing the peekaboo style and his almost non-answer was so telling. He realized he was not a cus peekaboo fighter anymore and he didn't have proper trainers teaching him the style he knew he wasn't the same fighter. Even in fights he won spectacularly you can clearly see he's just not the same guy watch The Mathis fight. I truly believe prime Tyson beats holyfield and a lot of those big champions of that era he beat guys like Michael Moorer. It was just a very sad clown show post Rooney post Jacobs and it was bad for boxing. Now boxing is all about building and protecting and going after meaningless belts and promoting guys based on what they were. The Don King Tyson era was awful for boxing. It hurt the integrity of the sport and created patterns that are still followed today.
A fight that could be considered a precursor to the downward trend in boxing's mainstream appeal was the Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield rematch in 1997, which became infamous for Tyson biting Holyfield's ear. This incident, commonly known as the "Bite Fight," was a major black mark on boxing. While the Tyson-Holyfield II fight didn't immediately cause a collapse in boxing's popularity, it set the stage for the public to become more disillusioned with the sport. This downward trend, combined with several other factors over the years (like controversial decisions, long waits for big matchups, and the rise of MMA), contributed to boxing's decline, which became more evident with the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight in 2015.
With all the technology over the years it’s unbelievable how boxing still couldn’t come up with a better and more efficient way of accurate judging of fights.
Your awesome Paulie, bareknuckle fighting machine great views on things fun to listen to, retired on time, keep up your great content, and your easy on our eyes lol.
Interesting take: lots of Uber drivers getting beat up to build up records and to protect the "0". But, IMO the switch to cable TV had more to do with it. Fewer fights were available to the general public on regular TV. After cable, boxing lost most of its audience.
I understand your point because after this one no other has close the standers were set to high I respect and admire Ali for who is was not only as a fighter but as a human being Vic Torres
I think today it also has to do with boxing promoters using the old techniques to promote the fights. Look at the UFC, they have their own channel that drops a lot of content, and different type of videos. They promote the fighters on the social medias etc Boxing promoters just not tapping into social media 😂 old a$$ mfs that don't know what they doing. The only promoter that is doing it right is Eddie Hearns but he's mostly focused on the UK promotion and successfully so.
Floyd made it easier for boxers to get paid but also took away from the sport when it comes to boxers being boxers before businessmen. Now they're all businessmen scared to risk their brand because apparently in today's era it's the end of the world if you lose
This is a valid point. However I don’t think its possible to a specific fight. I can tell you I did live through Ali v Frazier I. Yes the undefeated records were heavily touted in the promotion, but 0’s were not that big of a deal back then. Two things hurt boxing IMO; 1. The influx of European fighters. 2. PPV. Basically, the only fights that had any promotion were Meg-fights. Al Haymon, in my opinion is responsible for this rebirth in boxing. Do you remember what PBC’s “mantra” was when it started? #FreeBoxing4All
Well said Paulie about Andrade. That what I would tell Canelo and the guys that wont fight Devin Haney, maybe the public doesn't know who he is, how good he is but the fighters know.
Felt Pacman vs Mayweather could have brought the average fan back, but it didn't deliver.Had several non-boxing fans come to my house that night and they all left disappointed.
I think that boxing’s height/decline was the 80’s there were so many peaks and valleys, you had the end of the Ali era, and the beginning of the 80’s heavyweights who were considered to be weak(I disagree) in comparison to the 70’s. You had the rise of the lower weight classes thanks to the 4 kings, but we also got the end of the 15 rounders due to the Kim/Mancini fight which probably turned off allot of fans. Then the Mike Tyson era in the mid to late 80’s captured our attention again. While the 80’s was definitely great we also start to see the seeds that would start the eventual decline in mainstream popularity.
Paulie has great understanding of Boxing. Paulie has the balls to say to say what he believes. Very impressive and very rare to find people like this. He needs a shave though.
@@Rebelconformist82 been watching Paulie forever and I love his insight but sometimes he does rub me a bit wrong the McGregor and artem stuff was a bad look. But respect for his knowledge the guy talks boxing as well as anybody. I was rooting for him against broner.
@@Rebelconformist82 Paulie could box he had hand troubles and no power but I actually thought he might have beaten broner. Broner has no class and quite honestly it's shameful he only got as far as he did with his talent because the man is talented.
I am still trying to understand how broner beat you! That was an obvious fixed fight by the judges ! You beat him in thrown punches! Landed more! Boxing’s one on one dynamic is what it gives it the easy way to fix a sport! Great video! I just wish we would be able to call in and explain on whatever topic you are doing ! God Bless paisano!
fought every guy at their best. u have to give porter that. he really did. it was literally the most confident team of what they were and believed in themselves. bet on themselves atleast in my life time.
You make interesting points. Having a goose egg in the L column is protected so much, to the detriment of the fans. I feel for professional boxers who feel forced to protect the “0”, as they feel pressured due to the risk of being blown off as not “marketable” anymore. I wish there were less concerns about the undefeated status. The Greats took Ls, to include Ali and Leonard as you mention. Doesn’t make then any less great. Without Leonard Duran 1, we wouldn’t have seen Leonard try to go toe-to-toe. And we wouldn’t have seen the adjustment he made in Leonard Duran 2. The adversity of coming back to win the rematch and us getting the “No Mas” fight makes him greater as a boxer and we got two great fights as fans.
I think part of it might be justification for his own losses but he makes great points even though I don't always agree with the man he is extremely knowledgeable and he deserved a broner rematch.
excellent perspective. I don't know if it's any one thing. Certainly very bad obviously corrupt judging didn't help. the bad calls keep the sport mired in the "it's a fix controlled by the mob" stigma. I just watched the Roy Jones vs Korean gold medal fight again yesterday. boxing is still in that frame.
Paulie, this kind of insight is what makes you the best. I was so glad to see you in Ring magazine.com recently, hope you see you back to broadcasting soon.
You may say it could have been a "fight" that ruined history, but to me the fight that changed things was Leonard- Hagler. The Lords of boxing had so much power that commercialism created the meritocracy as Leonard did not have to prove his mettle at middleweight . . . as e.g. Joe Louis had to fight top contenders just to get the eliminator fight against Marciano. Since then, boxing wasn't the same, and failed to grow, especially from the authoritarian level. The commissions became weaker and weaker, judging became more suspect, as Promoters & their liaisons became more powerful. As Rod Steiger said in "The Harder They Fall" (1956) about the Fans "The Hell with them!"
why would canelo fight Andrade because he fought yildrim?? Dude you clearly admitted yildrim is his mandatory yet you still want to hate on him fighting yildrim. bruh stop being envious
funny I had ali foreman as the fight that ruined boxing. just it showed ,money can take fights anywhere, even tho it was a huge success and great idea, and ali holding back on that level changed how fighters thought and fought, all of sudden it was like 2 guys in the ring afraid to get tired first. now it's gotten to floyd Mayweather utilizing his energy so perfectly, so he knew exactly how to win rds using the least energy possible, and risk the least, u cant blame him at all he mastered it as money may. then guys came along like broner and just misread how to use that style, also the doghouse sparring thing teaches the same tactics and strategy which is just dont get tired first. in 3 min rds it doesnt teach u a lot
ODH/Felix was an absolute clinic by ODH up until about the 9th round. Trinidad was getting fainted two ways from Sunday. When ODH started running was when it went bad. Terrible decision as well.
Mayweather also influenced this. But now no one fights anyone and it's really terrible. Don't these fighters realize that they're losing money by not making the big fights, then missing the opportunity to do it.
This a cool way to look at it but I think it's the lack of great fights consistently. We can have big fights Be duds if we're getting 1-2 good fights every month. The top guys don't fight each other. Casuals aren't tuning in to Canelo vs billy joe but they would if he was fighting Benavidez Charlo etc. it's the same for the other top guys
Yeah. I was thinking Paulie was gonna make the case that Ali-Liston II was the fight that ruined boxing. I was thinking, "Yeah, maybe so. It was a shady fight, and cost the sport a lot of credibility." Then I was shocked to hear him say, "Ali-FRAZIER I."
For me, i do agree that since then, being selective has become a trend but Floyd Patterson was using Liston's shady past as a reason to duck him. It's human nature but yeah, the medua has the public wanting their guy to avoid other fighters and that is totally the fault of the media. Fans shouldnt make excuses for why their guy avoids the other guy. We want the best v the best. Couldn't agree more
Back in the 40s and 50's those guy fought some of the same guy 3 to 4 time's but they fought 4 to 5 times a year.but I blame Sugar Ray Leonard for the wait to fight till some were more ready to be beaten,or not ready to win yet.
Having a fight league like the ufc works because everyone (casual audience) believes for the most part the best fighters are in the ufc...and to a degree its true, alot of up and coming fighters dream is to fight in the ufc or fight for ufc gold This can work in boxing too but they need to build up fighters before they can even think of building a league like the nhl, nba, ufc
Something not mentioned here is the way Muhammed Ali changed the way the fighter was perceived by the public and then the media. Historically the heavyweight champion was looked at as a major celebrity with cross-over appeal, everybody loved the (heavyweight) champ. Muhammed Ali changed that when he decided to no longer be Cassius Marcellus Clay and go up against the draft board. Only because of his greatness and longevity as Paulie said did he overcome the naysayers he gain worldwide popularity. The American Heavyweight has never been looked at with the same reverence as fighters from prior decades.
Don't agree muhammad ali the greatest sportsman un history .he was voted by the bbc against pele .jack nicklson.and a whole host of other Sportsman to be the greatest most influential sportsman of the 20 century and compiled more votes than all the other contestant put together .so no contest
I think Paulie is absolutely spot on on this. Also, the idea that only fighters with great pay per view must be given a chance and not the best fighters is what is destroying boxing. Ali was a one off. That’s why he is the GOAT.
Muhammad Ali is so great people talk about what he did outside of the ring but forget the resume Frazier, foreman , Norton, holmes , Cleveland, sonny liston ,leon spinks, shavers ,Ron Lyle,Patterson, Cooper Ffs look at the damn resume
Just gonna say, there’s one common denominator between the FOTC era and todays era….Bob Arum. That guy has a lot to do with the bullshit on the business side. We might not ever get to see Beterbiev Vs Bivol because of him. And I’m pretty sure he was a co promoter of the FOTC lol.
I feel the same way. There's some irony to the fact that Arum saved boxing from Don King, who was generating a lot of excitement and colossal (for the time) purses, but was ripping off fighters (including Ali) for huge sums. Arum "saved" boxing, only to usher in an era where he and a few other promoters are each trying to monopolize the sport, so Top Rank fighters only fight Top Rank fighters, PBC fighters only fight PBC fighters, and so on. We fans don't get the fights we want; we get the fights promoters are willing to make, and it's strictly a coincidence if we also want to watch those fights.
Hey PAULIE? Why do you not have a call in show? I believe it would take you to the next level! I want you to be the best boxing TH-cam channel point Blank. Period! Calling will get your fans and boxing a chance to voice their opinion’s! What do you think?
This fight was very good. It does not ruin boxing but it proves that Haney beat Vasily. When fans were disappointed in Lomachenko getting the win against Ortiz where was this energy. 🤔
Also remember Mike Tyson was mainstream in a different sense, it didn't matter who he fought because he was always a sight to see. Not a good look for boxing though loll. I agree that boxing isn't as mainstream but it is still pretty mainstream. It's just not as consistent as other sports but the most mainstream fighters are just as mainstream if not more mainstream than any player from any mainstream sport. Although there are less and less as the years go by, but also I think, the fact eastern Europeans and Cubans, can now compete professionally, contributes too American boxing being less mainstream.
I get that I’m a year late but to say that the best don’t fight the best in MMA is wrong it’s like saying that in the NBA the best aren’t playing the best because the NBA teams are playing against the best because they aren’t playing against teams in China we all know where the best players in the world are playing same thing for MMA yes there is some fighters that I wish were in the UFC but 95 percent of the elite MMA fighters are in the UFC which compared to boxing allows for so many more opportunities for the best to fight the best
Aye Paulie invite me through a link or something. I gotta talk Boxing with you. Get in some dialogue. And I’m a man about mines so I’ll keep it honest from the jump, that shit you said about which race dominating Boxing was wrong for a lot of reasons, outside of that you good to listen to. You a student of the sport all the way. And I’m biased towards boxers (stylistically) I find brawler’s to be boring. None of that brawling shit excites me.
Like all your choices, for me the two biggest are Lewis Holyfield 1 and 2 and Mayweather Pac because of where the competitor UFC was at the respective times 1999 and 2014 and the growth they made after, along with recession boxing had.
Floyd Pac def ruined it. The whole world was waiting for it in the beginning of the social media era. Also wilder joshua not fighting a few years ago.... crushed it
I was skeptical at first, Paulie, because Ali-Frazier I is one of my fondest memories. I listened to this fight on the radio with my dad in the kitchen, then watched it many times over the years. But you make an excellent argument. Protecting the 0 at all costs is one of the worst things in boxing--all these undefeated guys who never fight each other...
He made a great point but he should have distinguished short-term and long-term because short-term that fight propelled boxing but it had long-term implications.
Great video Paulie!!! Ali/Frazier I is a really good shout. But I’d have to go with Leonard vs. Hagler as the fight that ruined boxing because that was the first fight, the first big fight, that was won purely on gamesmanship and cynicism.
Sugar Ray showed the boxing world and young up and coming fighters that you don’t actually have to BEAT the man to be the man. All you have to do is look busy and win over the judges and the crowd. More than any other fight, Leonard vs. Hagler led to the era where we got fights like DLH vs Trinidad and countless others: dudes thinking they can just use smoke and mirror to win a strap in stead of heart and soul, blood and guts.
Great comment. What I said in another comment but you said it much better.
I did agree. Boxing is about scoring points. Not just roughing people up ,and knockouts
That fight was more about who was fighting it didn't ruin boxing. And Boxing has always been corrupt and always will be
That's a beautiful point and I agree hagler was screwed. And that's the fight that led to stealing rounds being a very prevalent thing. It's like nobody cares who actually wins the fight nowadays or who inflicts the most damage. Hagler never got the credit he deserved throughout his entire career. They loved sugar Ray yet they consistently exploited hagler hearns as the Pinnacle of boxing entertainment but they didn't actually respect the man. Hagler Leonard was a travesty and a sign of things to come. Hagler never truly lost a fight. He was a machine. He always inflicted more damage I don't recall him ever being rocked and he always begged for more recognition his entire career.
@@Rebelconformist82 that's amateur fighting. An actual fight should be who wins the fight otherwise what's the point imagine if every fighter just focused on point fighting we would have aerobics contests.
Thank you for saying what you’ve said here Paulie! We as fans have validated the excuses and made it less likely that promoters and fighters will take the greatest challenges.
Much respect paulie 👊🏾 I don’t know why but I enjoy hearing you talk lol keep grinding 💪🏾
Dude, Paulie is a genius at analysing boxing mechanisms. And, he narrates very well.
What ruined and continues to ruin boxing is the lack of open discussion of CTE.
One of the best ever to lace them up. Great to see you calling fights again.
blame De la Hoya vs Trinindad fight! Tito came out seeking like always, but Oscar went in the ring with roller blades🤷🏽
Well Said Paulie! As a long time boxing fan I truly appreciate this!!! You have spoken the truth!!🥊🥊🥊
Hi Paulie, great topic, and points… I think it was not a particular “fight” per say that changed boxing but the migration from the networks to premium cable subscriptions.
Oscar del Hoya fought anyone and everyone win or lose. Probably the last fighter who fought fighters as soon as he could
He didn't fight all of them as soon as he could. Stop lying.
Agreed he fought Mosley Chavez PAC Mayweather etc he was a great boxer...win lose or draw
Are you serious Bro? Oscar intentionally avoided Vernon Forrest and Ronald Winkie Wright… they both fought and defeated Shane Mosley who gave them a shot at the title he beat Oscar for 2 times.
Not win, lose, or draw. Other than Vargas....he lost all those fights!
Agreed
3:58
Paulie dropping the chorus effect on us.....I wasn't ready...😂
Interesting perspective Paulie, good stuff!
great insight. another terrific video
You are the most honest, smartist, articulate expert in boxing. Great commentator also. Good luck.
On point as always..
Richard steel stopping the fight with 2 sec left to melderick Taylor was the worst thing ever
Extremely intelligent take on this topic. I'm sure no one expected this approach, very well done.
Paulie speaking facts about Andrade in context of boxing politics and fan sentiment. Damn shame we never got to see him in the ring with other elite guys in or around his division.
Haha I love how excited you get dude.
Good point on the 0. So many massive fights we should have had over the past 5 years especially.
Andrade bringing a good fight is, yes, exactly it!!! So tired of that stupid money argument. Nah, let's just sit and wait on the big money fights until everyone's out of their prime, sitting cold....not fighting at all.
Im sick off this a side BS to...THE WINNING FISTS SHOULD GET THE BIGGEST REWARD...NOT THE MOST POPULAR
And the worst part about it is people judge these over the hill money fights as if the two fighters were fighting in their prime. In some cases the fighters actually fought in their prime yet people seem to remember the meaningless exhibitions of postprime fighters more like Jones Jr versus Hopkins for example.
That's one thing I can't stand when fighters try to pick off Legends post prime just so they have a name in their pocket. I love me some DC but to say you have a win over Anderson Silva means nothing. For Hopkins to say he has a win over Jones means nothing. For Lennox Lewis to think a win over Tyson means anything is a joke and the same for holyfield they weren't fighting Mike Tyson they were fighting a guy with the same name but that wasn't Mike Tyson. Even holyfield admitted this.
And Pac-Man Mayweather was probably Manny at his worst I honestly think the Keith Thurman version might have been better.
And now we're going to see it with triple G and people are going to actually put stock into it when Canelo schools him what a travesty that situation is. It's going to be three nothing Canelo and people will truly believe Canelo was that much better when in reality prime for prime that's definitely not the case. And I'm a big Canelo fan I think it's hilarious how people completely write him off after the bivol fight.
Or not three nothing because laughably the first fight was a draw but you got the point
@@kevinknight8889 the problem is we are to blame. The fans are the one who make these guys popular along with the media But ultimately it's the fans. The fans have allowed the sport to become a clown show. It's gotten so bad that respected boxing people are calling Jake Paul a blue chip prospect. Hugely influential combat sports media like Joe Rogan even. Not sure if Rogan was high when he watched the second Woodley fight or he only watched The knockout but you can't watch the entire fight and tell me that guy is better than 500 amateurs are prospects in boxing. I could literally scour the amateur system and young professional prospects who are more skillful. Which leads to another point can we get real drug testing or are we going to pretend that boxing has real drug testing?
@@jayr7991 Agreed on all points. And just to add a little to the end I thought Triple G won both fights with Canelo. I know people will call me crazy in particular for the second fight. But hear me out. As boxing fans did we not bear witness to Triple G using an excellent jab throughout the fight? As well as good footwork and defense? Admittedly I haven't seen it since it happened so it's possible I may need to reassess. But from what I remember Triple G out-boxed Canelo the second fight. I heard a lot of comments from boxers whom I'm huge fans of say that Triple G ran after his coach called for Canelo to bring the "Mexican" style. I don't understand this. You don't judge a fight based on what the trainer says before the fight. You judge off of clean punching, effective aggression, defense, etc.
That being said boxing fans are fickle and will write fighters off as quickly as the media Mr. Malignaggi refers to. And that's what happened with Canelo and Bivol like you said.
Canelo will probably stop Triple G this one and people will truly believe he is that much better like you said.
bro i can not believe u sed this about mma n the ufc n bellator etc...i have been saying this to people for YEARS...THANK UUU!!! lol
That’s actually one of my top 3 fights ever I love that fight but now that you mention it I get you’re point, Floyd didn’t mess boxing up in the way of it becoming less mainstream in the USA neither did Oscar vs Trinidad this makes more sense.
Great analysis paulie
Delahoya outclassed trininidad nd ran the last 3 rounds... but if you win 9 out of 12 rounds you pretty much won the fight😐😐
Pretty much. But even judges don't follow that logic
Good call by Paulie. From my view, boxing can't be mainstream without charismatic/unique heavyweights.
Someones 0 gotta go . Interesting point , I think the belts are what did it but still super interesting. Best mind in boxing Paulie
Amazing perspective Paulie 💯
Don't always agree with Paulie & the Conor/Artem stuff was unappealing but he makes some great points. Also, he deserved a Broner rematch. But I would like to add a series of fights or an era that crumpled boxing.
The post prison Mike Tyson era was the beginning of the end. It reinforced everything that's wrong with boxing from building fake superfights to building fake prospects to rewarding a guy for being controversial rather than skillful and prime Tyson I think is arguably underrated but the post-prison era was a clown show.
Super fights like Lewis v Tyson, building guys like McNeely, going after belts just for the sake of belts. And hyping a guy for what he was rather than what he is. The worst part of it is post prison Tyson somehow diminishes prime Tyson in many people's eyes even the media. It's quite sad. If you don't have the wherewithal to judge what you are looking at at the time and be confident in that I don't know what to tell you. Fighters aren't the same guys fight to fight let alone during different periods of their career. The late Roy Jones era does nothing to erase prime Jones imo.
It's funny because it's not just post prison Tyson it was really post Rooney Tyson. As his foundational pieces began to crumble so did the foundation. Can you imagine if Atlas never left? Everybody talks about buster Douglas but there were signs well before. I think Trevor burbick was probably the peak. Even if you look at the Tony Tucker fight for example you could see signs. I think a lot of people say Michael spinks was the peak Tyson but I believe Mike put it together that night against an opponent who was shook before the fight even started. The further he got away from Atlas, Cus, then Rooney the worse it was.
It's funny because I think early post prison or maybe it was the razor ruddock fights but he was asked when he stopped practicing the peekaboo style and his almost non-answer was so telling. He realized he was not a cus peekaboo fighter anymore and he didn't have proper trainers teaching him the style he knew he wasn't the same fighter.
Even in fights he won spectacularly you can clearly see he's just not the same guy watch The Mathis fight. I truly believe prime Tyson beats holyfield and a lot of those big champions of that era he beat guys like Michael Moorer. It was just a very sad clown show post Rooney post Jacobs and it was bad for boxing.
Now boxing is all about building and protecting and going after meaningless belts and promoting guys based on what they were. The Don King Tyson era was awful for boxing. It hurt the integrity of the sport and created patterns that are still followed today.
Wait the picture on the vid is Ali and Liston 2 not Frazier
A fight that could be considered a precursor to the downward trend in boxing's mainstream appeal was the Mike Tyson vs. Evander Holyfield rematch in 1997, which became infamous for Tyson biting Holyfield's ear. This incident, commonly known as the "Bite Fight," was a major black mark on boxing.
While the Tyson-Holyfield II fight didn't immediately cause a collapse in boxing's popularity, it set the stage for the public to become more disillusioned with the sport. This downward trend, combined with several other factors over the years (like controversial decisions, long waits for big matchups, and the rise of MMA), contributed to boxing's decline, which became more evident with the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight in 2015.
With all the technology over the years it’s unbelievable how boxing still couldn’t come up with a better and more efficient way of accurate judging of fights.
Your awesome Paulie, bareknuckle fighting machine great views on things fun to listen to, retired on time, keep up your great content, and your easy on our eyes lol.
I think it’s about effort. You wanna see the guys trying even if their loosing.
Interesting take: lots of Uber drivers getting beat up to build up records and to protect the "0".
But, IMO the switch to cable TV had more to do with it. Fewer fights were available to the general public on regular TV. After cable, boxing lost most of its audience.
I understand your point because after this one no other has close the standers were set to high I respect and admire Ali for who is was not only as a fighter but as a human being Vic Torres
Cool video paulie
Nice points bro totally agree.
I think today it also has to do with boxing promoters using the old techniques to promote the fights. Look at the UFC, they have their own channel that drops a lot of content, and different type of videos. They promote the fighters on the social medias etc Boxing promoters just not tapping into social media 😂 old a$$ mfs that don't know what they doing. The only promoter that is doing it right is Eddie Hearns but he's mostly focused on the UK promotion and successfully so.
Mayweather ruined boxing
@@pocket1684 He did made smart investment and still have all his faculties. 😂
@@yvans. and what? made boxers too scared to fight each other
@@yvans. Ur right, I do take my hat off to him
Floyd made it easier for boxers to get paid but also took away from the sport when it comes to boxers being boxers before businessmen. Now they're all businessmen scared to risk their brand because apparently in today's era it's the end of the world if you lose
@@naeemislam1105 The joke completely went over your head 🙄
More fighters need to do it like Keith Thurman he had an 0 and wasn't afraid to let it go.Now quit ducking him son!!!
This Guy knows his things 👏 I agree 💯
This is a valid point. However I don’t think its possible to a specific fight. I can tell you I did live through Ali v Frazier I. Yes the undefeated records were heavily touted in the promotion, but 0’s were not that big of a deal back then.
Two things hurt boxing IMO;
1. The influx of European fighters.
2. PPV. Basically, the only fights that had any promotion were Meg-fights.
Al Haymon, in my opinion is responsible for this rebirth in boxing. Do you remember what PBC’s “mantra” was when it started? #FreeBoxing4All
Well said Paulie about Andrade. That what I would tell Canelo and the guys that wont fight Devin Haney, maybe the public doesn't know who he is, how good he is but the fighters know.
Felt Pacman vs Mayweather could have brought the average fan back, but it didn't deliver.Had several non-boxing fans come to my house that night and they all left disappointed.
I think that boxing’s height/decline was the 80’s there were so many peaks and valleys, you had the end of the Ali era, and the beginning of the 80’s heavyweights who were considered to be weak(I disagree) in comparison to the 70’s. You had the rise of the lower weight classes thanks to the 4 kings, but we also got the end of the 15 rounders due to the Kim/Mancini fight which probably turned off allot of fans. Then the Mike Tyson era in the mid to late 80’s captured our attention again. While the 80’s was definitely great we also start to see the seeds that would start the eventual decline in mainstream popularity.
Spence vs Crawford is a classic match-up between undefeated champs and I bet it won't bring many casual fans in.
The magic man’s knowledge and the way he breaks boxing away from the bullshit is the best boxing analyst on the planet 🌎
TH-camrs talking about boxing has been one of the biggest blessings and curses to boxing of the last 10 years
Paulie. 1995 DeLaHoya at lightweight vs Shakur today, who wins?
So many languages in the world and Paulie chose to speak FACTS!!
Paulie has great understanding of Boxing. Paulie has the balls to say to say what he believes. Very impressive and very rare to find people like this. He needs a shave though.
Paulie,s introspectivenes, and insight, of this sport is unmatched
True but this is also the same guy who said he was going to knock artem's teeth out and piss in his mouth so you have to take the good with the bad.
@@jayr7991 lol that's true
@@Rebelconformist82 been watching Paulie forever and I love his insight but sometimes he does rub me a bit wrong the McGregor and artem stuff was a bad look.
But respect for his knowledge the guy talks boxing as well as anybody. I was rooting for him against broner.
@@jayr7991 Paul is sound. If he had more power, he'd have been really on top. Broner is trash
@@Rebelconformist82 Paulie could box he had hand troubles and no power but I actually thought he might have beaten broner. Broner has no class and quite honestly it's shameful he only got as far as he did with his talent because the man is talented.
wow whatta dope take
Loved this rant especially the part about the fans you’re the consumer worry about what fight is entertaining to you
I am still trying to understand how broner beat you! That was an obvious fixed fight by the judges ! You beat him in thrown punches! Landed more! Boxing’s one on one dynamic is what it gives it the easy way to fix a sport! Great video! I just wish we would be able to call in and explain on whatever topic you are doing ! God Bless paisano!
Facts!!! I don't understand fanagers. Are you a fan of boxing or a fan of business?
fought every guy at their best. u have to give porter that. he really did. it was literally the most confident team of what they were and believed in themselves. bet on themselves atleast in my life time.
Spot on Paulie!
You make interesting points. Having a goose egg in the L column is protected so much, to the detriment of the fans. I feel for professional boxers who feel forced to protect the “0”, as they feel pressured due to the risk of being blown off as not “marketable” anymore. I wish there were less concerns about the undefeated status. The Greats took Ls, to include Ali and Leonard as you mention. Doesn’t make then any less great. Without Leonard Duran 1, we wouldn’t have seen Leonard try to go toe-to-toe. And we wouldn’t have seen the adjustment he made in Leonard Duran 2. The adversity of coming back to win the rematch and us getting the “No Mas” fight makes him greater as a boxer and we got two great fights as fans.
I think part of it might be justification for his own losses but he makes great points even though I don't always agree with the man he is extremely knowledgeable and he deserved a broner rematch.
best boxing analyst today
Finally people are talking about Demetrius Hopkins
excellent perspective. I don't know if it's any one thing. Certainly very bad obviously corrupt judging didn't help. the bad calls keep the sport mired in the "it's a fix controlled by the mob" stigma. I just watched the Roy Jones vs Korean gold medal fight again yesterday. boxing is still in that frame.
Paulie side piece malignaggi always has the best break down on boxing topics
Paulie, this kind of insight is what makes you the best. I was so glad to see you in Ring magazine.com recently, hope you see you back to broadcasting soon.
You may say it could have been a "fight" that ruined history, but to me the fight that changed things was Leonard- Hagler. The Lords of boxing had so much power that commercialism created the meritocracy as Leonard did not have to prove his mettle at middleweight . . . as e.g. Joe Louis had to fight top contenders just to get the eliminator fight against Marciano. Since then, boxing wasn't the same, and failed to grow, especially from the authoritarian level. The commissions became weaker and weaker, judging became more suspect, as Promoters & their liaisons became more powerful. As Rod Steiger said in "The Harder They Fall" (1956) about the Fans "The Hell with them!"
why would canelo fight Andrade because he fought yildrim?? Dude you clearly admitted yildrim is his mandatory yet you still want to hate on him fighting yildrim. bruh stop being envious
That was truly the fight of the century!! It was so good, nothing will ever be better. I get it. The bar is set too high.
funny I had ali foreman as the fight that ruined boxing. just it showed ,money can take fights anywhere, even tho it was a huge success and great idea, and ali holding back on that level changed how fighters thought and fought, all of sudden it was like 2 guys in the ring afraid to get tired first. now it's gotten to floyd Mayweather utilizing his energy so perfectly, so he knew exactly how to win rds using the least energy possible, and risk the least, u cant blame him at all he mastered it as money may. then guys came along like broner and just misread how to use that style, also the doghouse sparring thing teaches the same tactics and strategy which is just dont get tired first. in 3 min rds it doesnt teach u a lot
ODH/Felix was an absolute clinic by ODH up until about the 9th round. Trinidad was getting fainted two ways from Sunday. When ODH started running was when it went bad. Terrible decision as well.
Mayweather also influenced this. But now no one fights anyone and it's really terrible. Don't these fighters realize that they're losing money by not making the big fights, then missing the opportunity to do it.
If only we had 1000 Paulies saying the same shit boxing would be in way better shape 💯
This a cool way to look at it but I think it's the lack of great fights consistently. We can have big fights Be duds if we're getting 1-2 good fights every month. The top guys don't fight each other. Casuals aren't tuning in to Canelo vs billy joe but they would if he was fighting Benavidez Charlo etc. it's the same for the other top guys
wow what a viewpoint! Bert Sugar replaced , The magician
It's now a huge part of boxing it's programming at it's finest
Love the vid. Hate the thumbnail though lol. Ali never stood over Smokin Joe like that and Joe is the one that knocked him on his ass!
Yeah. I was thinking Paulie was gonna make the case that Ali-Liston II was the fight that ruined boxing. I was thinking, "Yeah, maybe so. It was a shady fight, and cost the sport a lot of credibility." Then I was shocked to hear him say, "Ali-FRAZIER I."
I would love to see another super six @160 or 168
For me, i do agree that since then, being selective has become a trend but Floyd Patterson was using Liston's shady past as a reason to duck him. It's human nature but yeah, the medua has the public wanting their guy to avoid other fighters and that is totally the fault of the media. Fans shouldnt make excuses for why their guy avoids the other guy. We want the best v the best. Couldn't agree more
SRL did marinate that first Hearns fight for a couple of years and the rematch for 7 years.
🥊🥊🥊
Back in the 40s and 50's those guy fought some of the same guy 3 to 4 time's but they fought 4 to 5 times a year.but I blame Sugar Ray Leonard for the wait to fight till some were more ready to be beaten,or not ready to win yet.
What killed Boxing was no heavy weight champions or even the mix
Started to die during Lenox run
Paulie loves playing devils advocate lmao and I’m all for it only 2 mins in to this one thou
Having a fight league like the ufc works because everyone (casual audience) believes for the most part the best fighters are in the ufc...and to a degree its true, alot of up and coming fighters dream is to fight in the ufc or fight for ufc gold
This can work in boxing too but they need to build up fighters before they can even think of building a league like the nhl, nba, ufc
Facts
Something not mentioned here is the way Muhammed Ali changed the way the fighter was perceived by the public and then the media. Historically the heavyweight champion was looked at as a major celebrity with cross-over appeal, everybody loved the (heavyweight) champ.
Muhammed Ali changed that when he decided to no longer be Cassius Marcellus Clay and go up against the draft board. Only because of his greatness and longevity as Paulie said did he overcome the naysayers he gain worldwide popularity. The American Heavyweight has never been looked at with the same reverence as fighters from prior decades.
Don't agree muhammad ali the greatest sportsman un history .he was voted by the bbc against pele .jack nicklson.and a whole host of other Sportsman to be the greatest most influential sportsman of the 20 century and compiled more votes than all the other contestant put together .so no contest
I think Paulie is absolutely spot on on this. Also, the idea that only fighters with great pay per view must be given a chance and not the best fighters is what is destroying boxing. Ali was a one off. That’s why he is the GOAT.
Muhammad Ali is so great people talk about what he did outside of the ring but forget the resume
Frazier, foreman , Norton, holmes , Cleveland, sonny liston ,leon spinks, shavers ,Ron Lyle,Patterson, Cooper
Ffs look at the damn resume
Just gonna say, there’s one common denominator between the FOTC era and todays era….Bob Arum. That guy has a lot to do with the bullshit on the business side. We might not ever get to see Beterbiev Vs Bivol because of him. And I’m pretty sure he was a co promoter of the FOTC lol.
I feel the same way. There's some irony to the fact that Arum saved boxing from Don King, who was generating a lot of excitement and colossal (for the time) purses, but was ripping off fighters (including Ali) for huge sums. Arum "saved" boxing, only to usher in an era where he and a few other promoters are each trying to monopolize the sport, so Top Rank fighters only fight Top Rank fighters, PBC fighters only fight PBC fighters, and so on. We fans don't get the fights we want; we get the fights promoters are willing to make, and it's strictly a coincidence if we also want to watch those fights.
Hey PAULIE? Why do you not have a call in show? I believe it would take you to the next level! I want you to be the best boxing TH-cam channel point Blank. Period! Calling will get your fans and boxing a chance to voice their opinion’s! What do you think?
Tyson Seldon, Tyson vs Spinks .. vs Mc NEELY .. mIKE FUKED IT UP
How about chavez taylor ?? That was a great fight
Finally someone called out that MMA bullshit narrative, I have been saying that for years lol thank you...
This fight was very good. It does not ruin boxing but it proves that Haney beat Vasily. When fans were disappointed in Lomachenko getting the win against Ortiz where was this energy. 🤔
Also remember Mike Tyson was mainstream in a different sense, it didn't matter who he fought because he was always a sight to see. Not a good look for boxing though loll. I agree that boxing isn't as mainstream but it is still pretty mainstream. It's just not as consistent as other sports but the most mainstream fighters are just as mainstream if not more mainstream than any player from any mainstream sport. Although there are less and less as the years go by, but also I think, the fact eastern Europeans and Cubans, can now compete professionally, contributes too American boxing being less mainstream.
I get that I’m a year late but to say that the best don’t fight the best in MMA is wrong it’s like saying that in the NBA the best aren’t playing the best because the NBA teams are playing against the best because they aren’t playing against teams in China we all know where the best players in the world are playing same thing for MMA yes there is some fighters that I wish were in the UFC but 95 percent of the elite MMA fighters are in the UFC which compared to boxing allows for so many more opportunities for the best to fight the best
Aye Paulie invite me through a link or something. I gotta talk Boxing with you. Get in some dialogue. And I’m a man about mines so I’ll keep it honest from the jump, that shit you said about which race dominating Boxing was wrong for a lot of reasons, outside of that you good to listen to. You a student of the sport all the way. And I’m biased towards boxers (stylistically) I find brawler’s to be boring. None of that brawling shit excites me.
Like all your choices, for me the two biggest are Lewis Holyfield 1 and 2 and Mayweather Pac because of where the competitor UFC was at the respective times 1999 and 2014 and the growth they made after, along with recession boxing had.
Not the same demographic of fans
@@axisv99 fight fans are fight fans, regardless what year it is.
@@DiamondKingsMusic statistics say otherwise lol
Floyd Pac def ruined it. The whole world was waiting for it in the beginning of the social media era. Also wilder joshua not fighting a few years ago.... crushed it
I wish I can ask him we're is the best pizza in Brooklyn I'm from Coney island a big fan of this guy to me l&b is not the same