This series of videos, is exactly what I was looking for as a newb: understanding how to choose the right tools, how to dial in the right settings, etc. Thank you!!!
This is great info. Thank you for putting these together. I plan to make a "flow chart" for this process. That way I could easily and logically go through the zig zag process with new tooling.
John, you think like I do. Examine everything. Just because it is in print will not conclude it is finite an absolute. Oh, and have fun while doing it. I ponder if the trade schools examine the chips. I would suppose some instructors do one reason I like your vids you are self taught and make a living at it. Looking forward to the 3 day class.
The variation for the last cut might be due to a change in one of the non obvious variables, the stock. It's only leaving a slice there which may be flexing and folding with the heat.
Great video set. I took machining back in college, many many moons ago, and I'm getting back into it. This was a really good beginning to making good chips. I hope to see more along this line of instruction. One bit of advice, a few more visual aids, be it clips or a simple white board and marker. Once again great work.
Great series. Thank you and thank Lakeshore Carbide for these. At about time 9:30 you say that one in four chips seem to be blue, and you are cutting with a 4-flute end mill. I would be looking for single tooth damage or irregularity, or possibly runout causing one tooth to make a deeper cut. When you are making 0.0005" adjustments in cut per tooth, 0.001" runout would make a huge difference on one* of the teeth. I would be really interested in seeing an indicator put to that end mill in the spindle while rotating the spindle slowly backwards and recording the heights of each of the four cutting edges. =========== * or maybe two, depending on the indexing of teeth to runout
+Peter W. Meek A single blue chip is more likely a damaged flute as you say. Thin chips are easier to blue as they have less mass and so go to a higher temperature with the given input of btu's from the cut. Thick chips are always cooler given the same speed and feed. Damage as you predict will push more and contribute more btu's. Nice observation! you are a detail guy...
+Peter W. Meek Run out or damage was running through my mind as well... I'm going with run out, especially with an end mill holder like the one being used. Run out is the main downfall of that type of holder.
Awesome series John, I've really enjoyed it. I agree to your 30% rule, and remember Bob Warfield at CNC Cookbook had an article saying the same. He has some information on why you should avoid WOCs of 30%-70%. Either go 0%-30% or 70%-100% I guess.
Hi John... Love this series, and specially the parts 7, 8 and 9... Since I'm living in the Metric system it is somewhat hard to follow sometimes, so I converted your sheet. Not sure if you are interested, or some of your metric viewers, but on the second tab you'll find your sheet in Metric. Values are the ones of your test... : www.filedropper.com/speedsfeedsmetric Thanks for sharing..
Great stuff keep it up! I thought if you went above 70% width that climb milling was better than conventional? Maybe thats an over generalization though, but I heard that somewhere and it stuck in my head. Keeps the chips clearer from the work. BTW your 440 videos helped convince me to order a Tormach 440 package. :D
John, for people with older machines that have slower IPM feedrate, would the 80℅ approach make more sense, as my older machine can't get near the max IPM you ran during the 30℅ video. thanks
What happens when you have to do a slot or groove using the 100% WOC? Is the 0.001 IPT ok to start with? Or there's other recommendation for it in other to guarantee chip evacuation? What's can you do in this case?
What if I am slotting? I have no choice to go 30%. I am no where near your MMR. 1/4 hot rolled steel plate, 4 flute carbide, .065 DOC, .25 WOC (slot), 4500 RPM, 10 IPM, Tormach 770. I moved from the x2 to a Tormach to make parts faster. Trying to unlock it speed.
+Tzadvantage Bkk - Thanks, great video! not exactly what I am doing though. I am cutting the corners off 1/4 plate steel to make an oval shaped cover. Probable best done on a plasma table but I don't have the money or space for it. I also need to machine other features in the cover which has to be done on a mill. Volume is too low to hire it out.
+NYC CNC - Thanks John! I tried 1/8 EM but it snapped too easy. I have a 3/16 EM so I will give that a try along with your zig zag method. I will check out HSM toolpath. I't not familiar with it. Thanks again!
+Matthew Tang I grew up with a tool and die shop in my garage. It was all hand mill, so my rule of thumb for aluminum was... if it bounces off the skin you're good, if it sticks and burns into the skin it's too hot. Another way to tell is how the coolant reacts If the chips leave a visible "smoke" trail for a fair distance, it's usually a good sign of excessive heat
Are these just raw tests? The cutter is extremely choked up and it seems as though it's not really versatile for various jobs that will need more considerable more stickout. For this particular cut though, good video. :)
John!!! After you get past 1000+ SFM that is when the magic happens! Check out Dr Herbert Schulz's "History of High Speed Machining." on cnccookcook's website! My metal removal rate for steel hit 3.17 cubic inches per minute with a 1/4" endmill after taking their advice! I hope this helps with your business!
+14220cz I agree, I was under the impression you want the heat from machining to exit with the chip, not stay in the workpiece and tool, which means a nice blue chip
+14220cz Agreed to a certain extent. Dual colored chips are ideal starting from straw and going toward blue. If the chip is completely blue and even shifting toward purple, then there is more heat in the cut than the chip can take away. The heat has to go somewhere so it's going into the part and your tool.
+NYC CNC You are right. Like Kenneth said you don't want a dark blue or purple chip. Light to medium blue chip is what I look for. I will add this is with carbide tools and no coolant. Great videos by the way!
Kenneth Higley Well... Not really. When you increase the cutting speed, you increase also the proportion of heat taken away by chips so heat affects less your part and your tool.
This series of videos, is exactly what I was looking for as a newb: understanding how to choose the right tools, how to dial in the right settings, etc. Thank you!!!
I think this was my favourite video of the whole series John. Thanks a lot to you and Lakeshore Carbide for putting this together.
The book says everything
The internet says nothing
But you say the point.
Thanks again for sharing.
This is great info. Thank you for putting these together.
I plan to make a "flow chart" for this process. That way I could easily and logically go through the zig zag process with new tooling.
John, you think like I do. Examine everything. Just because it is in print will not conclude it is finite an absolute. Oh, and have fun while doing it. I ponder if the trade schools examine the chips. I would suppose some instructors do one reason I like your vids you are self taught and make a living at it. Looking forward to the 3 day class.
The variation for the last cut might be due to a change in one of the non obvious variables, the stock. It's only leaving a slice there which may be flexing and folding with the heat.
Great video set. I took machining back in college, many many moons ago, and I'm getting back into it. This was a really good beginning to making good chips. I hope to see more along this line of instruction. One bit of advice, a few more visual aids, be it clips or a simple white board and marker. Once again great work.
Great series. Thank you and thank Lakeshore Carbide for these.
At about time 9:30 you say that one in four chips seem to be blue, and you are cutting with a 4-flute end mill. I would be looking for single tooth damage or irregularity, or possibly runout causing one tooth to make a deeper cut. When you are making 0.0005" adjustments in cut per tooth, 0.001" runout would make a huge difference on one* of the teeth. I would be really interested in seeing an indicator put to that end mill in the spindle while rotating the spindle slowly backwards and recording the heights of each of the four cutting edges.
===========
* or maybe two, depending on the indexing of teeth to runout
+Peter W. Meek A single blue chip is more likely a damaged flute as you say. Thin chips are easier to blue as they have less mass and so go to a higher temperature with the given input of btu's from the cut. Thick chips are always cooler given the same speed and feed. Damage as you predict will push more and contribute more btu's. Nice observation! you are a detail guy...
+Peter W. Meek Run out or damage was running through my mind as well... I'm going with run out, especially with an end mill holder like the one being used. Run out is the main downfall of that type of holder.
Awesome series John, I've really enjoyed it. I agree to your 30% rule, and remember Bob Warfield at CNC Cookbook had an article saying the same. He has some information on why you should avoid WOCs of 30%-70%. Either go 0%-30% or 70%-100% I guess.
Great series. I learned so much. Thanks John.
awesome series! looking forward to more like it.
Great series. Thanks John.
Hi John... Love this series, and specially the parts 7, 8 and 9...
Since I'm living in the Metric system it is somewhat hard to follow sometimes, so I converted your sheet.
Not sure if you are interested, or some of your metric viewers, but on the second tab you'll find your sheet in Metric.
Values are the ones of your test... : www.filedropper.com/speedsfeedsmetric
Thanks for sharing..
I would like to know where is the link to download the Excel Speeds & Feeds. Thanks
Great stuff keep it up! I thought if you went above 70% width that climb milling was better than conventional? Maybe thats an over generalization though, but I heard that somewhere and it stuck in my head. Keeps the chips clearer from the work.
BTW your 440 videos helped convince me to order a Tormach 440 package. :D
John, for people with older machines that have slower IPM feedrate, would the 80℅ approach make more sense, as my older machine can't get near the max IPM you ran during the 30℅ video. thanks
What happens when you have to do a slot or groove using the 100% WOC? Is the 0.001 IPT ok to start with? Or there's other recommendation for it in other to guarantee chip evacuation? What's can you do in this case?
What if I am slotting? I have no choice to go 30%. I am no where near your MMR. 1/4 hot rolled steel plate, 4 flute carbide, .065 DOC, .25 WOC (slot), 4500 RPM, 10 IPM, Tormach 770. I moved from the x2 to a Tormach to make parts faster. Trying to unlock it speed.
+NYC CNC Please do a follow up video on slotting, I'm quite interested aswell
+Tzadvantage Bkk - Thanks, great video! not exactly what I am doing though. I am cutting the corners off 1/4 plate steel to make an oval shaped cover. Probable best done on a plasma table but I don't have the money or space for it. I also need to machine other features in the cover which has to be done on a mill. Volume is too low to hire it out.
+NYC CNC - Thanks John! I tried 1/8 EM but it snapped too easy. I have a 3/16 EM so I will give that a try along with your zig zag method. I will check out HSM toolpath. I't not familiar with it. Thanks again!
Thanks John for making this video. I learned a lot! My question is, for aluminum how can you tell if the chips are getting too hot?
+Matthew Tang I grew up with a tool and die shop in my garage. It was all hand mill, so my rule of thumb for aluminum was... if it bounces off the skin you're good, if it sticks and burns into the skin it's too hot. Another way to tell is how the coolant reacts If the chips leave a visible "smoke" trail for a fair distance, it's usually a good sign of excessive heat
Are these just raw tests? The cutter is extremely choked up and it seems as though it's not really versatile for various jobs that will need more considerable more stickout. For this particular cut though, good video. :)
Sorry, comment below was not from Monica Huerta, but me, Warren. That's my daughter in-law. Do not know how that happened.
As far as I know, 60% radial engagement is optimal.
John!!! After you get past 1000+ SFM that is when the magic happens! Check out Dr Herbert Schulz's "History of High Speed Machining." on cnccookcook's website! My metal removal rate for steel hit 3.17 cubic inches per minute with a 1/4" endmill after taking their advice! I hope this helps with your business!
Why are you so afraid of blue chips? Blue is good for machining of steel.
+14220cz I agree, I was under the impression you want the heat from machining to exit with the chip, not stay in the workpiece and tool, which means a nice blue chip
+14220cz Agreed to a certain extent. Dual colored chips are ideal starting from straw and going toward blue. If the chip is completely blue and even shifting toward purple, then there is more heat in the cut than the chip can take away. The heat has to go somewhere so it's going into the part and your tool.
+NYC CNC You are right. Like Kenneth said you don't want a dark blue or purple chip. Light to medium blue chip is what I look for. I will add this is with carbide tools and no coolant. Great videos by the way!
Kenneth Higley Well... Not really. When you increase the cutting speed, you increase also the proportion of heat taken away by chips so heat affects less your part and your tool.