Metal Lathe Tutorial 21 : Speeds & Feeds
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- This is Lathe Skills, a multi-part series to help you learn basic machine shop work. Exclusive videos, drawings, models & plans available on Patreon!
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A King George's thumbs per fortnight to SFPM conversion chart would be great. Thanks! Also, you're the first person I've EVER heard refer to hardness as BHN, as most mention Rockwell. Having taken tens of thousands of Brinnell hardness readings (by hand) I appreciated it! Excellent video as always!
So goes the Big Book, therego I. 😬
Assuming 1 King George's thumb == 1 inch, to convert from KGTPF to SFPM, divide by 241,920.
@@robbystokoe5161 This is the finest comment anyone has ever left on one of my videos. 🥳
@@robbystokoe5161 I'm currently bracing myself for when I am forced to convert my machine tools to use these units after Brexit.
Spot on ref BHN.
A complex subject very well explained. So good that you point out the pitfalls and assumptions in those manuals, those are the very things that trip up the amateur and hobbyist and cause us such anguish. It really brings home how much attention to detail is required to produce the top quality work that most of us strive for. Many thanks Quinn this series is invaluable.
Great explanation of a tricky topic! I want you to know that because of your lathe and mill series, I have cleaned off my mini-lathe and resurrected my micro-mill, which was getting rather forlorn. It's now all tuned and trammed up and has a new precision vise. Thanks for the inspiration!
Awesome! Glad I could inspire! 😁
feed a man a fish and you have a kitchen to clean. - teach a man to fish and you get your weekends free...
Thanks for the info. I would be lost without this.
Nice video! Lots to learn when it comes to feeds and speeds, and so many variables... Anyhow, nice work! Keep em' coming!
Thanks to you , I now have “tappy tap tap” in my head every time I tap a workpiece down in my vise. Thanks a lot.
Love you videos. I’ve always gone with 1/2” steel at 600 rpm. Double the diameter and you’d halve the speed. Halve the diameter and you’d double the speed For aluminum double these speeds and for stainless steel halve the speeds. High nickels and super alloys go carbide and get a good book. I’m a welder by trade so I do mostly rough work.
I was just looking at the Machinery Handbook speeds and feeds. Scratching head asking "what-is-all-dis". Lo and behold (or is it beholden?) Blondie has a MH29 open on her bench, which is the same edition as mine. THEN, beyond all reasoning, including King George's reasoning, she shows me a PM1022 lathe. Holy fortnight George, that is the same lathe as mine. Are the planets in retrograde? They shalln't be I shall say. Anywho, thanks for the vid. New subscriber here.
Thanks for this nice information. One question, or comment: Regarding the true surface speed beeing the result of the two vectors,
the horizontal vector as a result of feed speed has to be miniscule in comparision to the rotational vector. It will therefore add almost no
extra surface speed. At least that is my understanding, willing to be corrected. Thanks.
Great video, thanks! It has been a while since I've done this.
Thank You
Thank you for explaining that.
Good explanation for a complicated subject.
By the way, here in West Virginia we use squirrel tongues per itty-bit.
Meow and thanks.
Wow trying to sort out this nest of vipers for us amateurs ! Your my hero ! Or should that be heroine can be still use his and here designates or is that no longer politically correct ? What ever Thank you for explaining.
thanks Quin...
How would you go about doing this without the Holy Machinery's Handbook? I will end up ordering the book anyway, but I would still like to know.
My favorite nonsense measurement unit is Furlongs per Fortnight. (0.000166309524 m / s)
what about plastic? Like HMD plastic (the often used by hobbyists), or PVC (one of the most used) ?
I’ve just bought a lathe - I now think I’m smart/patient* enough to use it.
*delete as appropriate
If I ever have a daughter I hope she'll be as smart as you. :D
Might be a dumb question....Would these speed rates be compatible with a mill?
Yah they are a good starting point for the mill as well- using cutter diameter instead of stock, of course.
I recently bought my first lathe. It's a 1930s leblond 10" lathe and haven't had the finish results I expected. The max rpm of the lathe according to the chart is only 550 rpm wich seems way to less in comparison with the speeds mentioned in the video. I initially tought the bad finish was due to my vidia cutting tools because I later found out these have high cuttingspeeds. Since my lathe is so old I higly doubt vidia or tungsten was already used back then so I now switched to HSS and according to the the video finish passes for 1" is around 800rpm but my lathe doesn't even come near. Does someone know why the max rpm is only 550? I really don't understand how they turned proper parts...
This Old Tony's daughter?
I was going to say we’ve seen a little bit of TOT’s daughter and she’s definitely younger, but that’s thinking without a lathe for you. How old someone is right in front of you doesn’t mean a whole lot when you can time travel.
Question - Is it reasonable to attempt to mill on the lathe, using a milling fixture instead of a toolpost? Something like littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3766 I know a lathe is the first recommended tool; can it mill effectively in the home shop?
Absolutely! Many people do a lot of sophisticated work using nothing but a milling attachment on a lathe. They aren’t the most rigid things in the world, and range of travel is limited, but if you’re making smaller parts, like model engines, a milling attachment can be a good option. Obviously a mill is better if you have space and budget, but not everyone does.
SFM is easy when you just G96 it
I dabble around with black magic till it looks good… and next day do it all over again..ugh
so what you are basically saying is. Don't get a full fledged "Machinist Handbook" find one geared for the hobbyist... IF there is one available.
I wouldn’t go that far- it’s a very valuable book. It’s just about knowing how to use the information.
Reminds me of when I was back in machinist school. Speaking first from the perspective of manual machining. We toiled away in the classroom learning and applying feeds, speeds, and depth of cut applications to many machine tool operations, must have done numerous problems on paper using Machinery's handbook, various charts, graphs, formulas. The school did a fantastic job of scaring the shit out of you leading one to believe that if you did not apply the correct conditions to the machine and part being produced, that the world would instantly implode. Then the day came when we stepped out on to the shop floor to apply that knowledge for actually making real parts. This older instructor named Ron, old school machinist mate from the Navy from a century ago, LOL, stated it was important to know where to go and how to figure out the math, but now this is how you really do it. He then proceeded to explain we had to remember three main things: capability/condition of the machine, tool bit profile and sharpness, tool bit position - that was it. He demonstrated various speeds and feeds on various materials and sizes, with various tool bits., explained to us it was all about feel, sound, and appearance of the cut. If you are not feeling the machine, feeling the cut, hearing what it's doing, and can't see what's going on with your cut, then you will never be a real machinist. It was all about what was practical, less on the real math from the book. Went through the rest of the program employing his advise in the shop, only doing the math application on paper for assignments and exams. I'm just a machine tool hobbyist now days, but his advice is exactly how I run a machine. New Castle School of Trades 2000-2003.
WOW, of all the people I tried to train in feeds and speeds when I was machining, yours is the most succinctly comprehensive explanation of this subject. I wish I could’ve explained it as you did, to my trainees, I’d usually get slack jawed looks of being lost. I could swear one kid drooled while I tried to explain, in the way I was trained. Great video, Very informative. 👍
I'm going to have to watch this again after I have a lathe... it was well put out, and able to be understood, but I save money slowly, so I will probably forget.
I often save videos like this for future reference. They have come in handy many times.
Subscribe to the channel, and the videos will be with you forever (or as long as Google sees fit ... 😉)
Thank you Quinn. You have an affinity for breaking down subjects and making them entertaining and enlightening . #Saturdaysarefunagain
I just got done watching the lathe and the mill series. I wanted to say thank you! I accepted a tool room machinist job last fall and have already learned way more from you than my actual trainer has taught me. Thank you!!
Do you know what the Yamaha emblem represents?
I don't know that I found it useful, necessarily, since I have no machine shop.... but I did find this episode FASCINATING. It sent me down an internet rabbit hole of (on one hand) tips, tricks and rules-of-thumb and (on the other) very frightening dissertations about materials, physics and computation. I still have the chills after two cups of tea. Was the this the Halloween episode?
Great tutorial! As a fairly new home gamer at machining, I haven’t gotten very far in this aspect of machining yet. I’ve looked in “the good book” as people refer to it (Machinery’s Handbook) but holy crap there is a lot of technical info in that thing, so thank you for digging in that thing for us and breaking things down so well!!! Really enjoying your content and am learning a ton! 👏🤙
Yes, that book is difficult as a learning resource! Check out my Anniversary Q&A for some better beginner resources.
And only one MEH from Adam :)
2:54 had me laughing. Sooooo on point. :)
Though, don't forget the sigh at 4:02.
Hi Quinn, can I become a patreon from the UK, I'm assuming your store and the stickers would be off limits.
regards
Joe Paton
All of the above are allowed! 😁 I have patrons from all over the world, and my store and stickers all ship anywhere.
Awesome video find. TH-cam needs to recommend more knowledgeable women engineers. This def surpasses most channels I've found
My brain hurts. 😂 Lots of great info. Great job! I'll be watching this video again .... and again .... and again .... and again. I am loving this entire Lathe series and I don't even have one yet. Hopefully soon. I'm almost done with this playlist. Then it's time for the Mill series.
Very well put across Quinn, nice work.
THANK YOU, A ACTUAL EXPLANATION!!!!! Wow those charts really threw me off!! Thank you for giving a truthful insight into the topic!
Great video, Quinn! Not many of these tutorials really give a good "rule of thumb" for the tool radius vs travel. Thanks😊!
Hey Quinn - another well done and fully packed video. Lots to think about and digest. Good to know there is more than just "400 / Dia. Of Stock" for lathe speeds......
You' think that by now someone would have integrated all this data in a smartphone calculator
There are a couple of “machinist calculators” out there, but none that impressed me very much. I may write one if I ever get time.
It's not a smartphone app but I have one of these and it's awesome.
www.calculated.com/prd377/Machinist-Calc-Pro-2-4088-Machining-Calculator-with-Materials.html
@Richard Hunter - looks great but this is called 'pro' for a reason. I doubt that may hobbyist would spend the cash. I am using an Excel spreadsheet for the basics.
"if I ever get time" sounds familiar. Most of my projects end up like that :D
@@p3astar378 Well, it can be bought in combination with Machinery's Handbook in either toolbox or "large print" editions:
books.industrialpress.com/machinery-s-handbook-31st-edition-toolbox-and-machinist-calc-pro-2-combo.html
books.industrialpress.com/machinery-s-handbook-31st-edition-large-print-and-machinist-calc-pro-2-combo.html
So... I've got mine... now I just need the machines. :'( ;)
thank you so much. I have tried again and again to make sense of the calculators on the internet, and confused my self trying to use the handbook. What I really wanted to do is use the handbook! Thanks for showing us how.
Speeds and feeds ,🙄 come on you wind it till the machine stalls, then take it down by one King George's thumb /fortnight 😂. just kidding another great video Quinn.👍
Love the explanation about Machinery's Handbook. Was always a little confused about some of the charts/calcs.
Thank you - that was perhaps the best explanation I've seen to date. Also explains just why the Handbook is so wrong for hobbyists.
Good job tackling a tricky subject Quinn - take home message: As your average hobbyist you need to work out what your tools can manage and do well - and then write it down! No point blindly using numbers that were calculated for machines that turn wheelsets for rolling stock or the like. Leave that up to Adam.
Start a fire for a man and you'll keep him warm for one night.
Start a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
Also, 🙄 everyone knows feed speeds are measured in furlongs per fortnight.
Ah a fellow devotee of the Vulture Central Units System :-)
what IS the speed of a sheep in a vacuum?
@@naughtyhorses on which day. it matters.
The Machinery's Handbook is not directly applicable for machining with metal working equipment which weighs less than 1 bus or costs less than 10 buses. A guy I knew was a chef on an aircraft carrier. After his service, he was planning to use his personalized Navy cook books to open a restaurant. He did. And he failed before he opened. Most recipes were for 2000, the smallest for 200. Scaling to 1 or 10 simply did not yield food he could serve. You did a great job on this video, delving into the assumptions, details and the calculations.
I bet he could throw a hell of a huge dinner party, though.
Do you have a similar video for depth of cut, chip load and rpm for end mills?
Haha got a good laugh at the MEH from Adam. In the machining safety class I teach, inevitably a young mechanical engineer will ask what the numbers on the power feed mean.
Spinal Tap’s power feed goes to 11.
@@Blondihacks In case you need just that one more.
@@Blondihacks that is so funny --- when you said something like the ten numbers don't mean anything that's the first thing I thought of. Great video by the way. You have a real gift for teaching.
Hi, and greetings from the UK! Just to say I have recently found your channel and very interested in your lathe work. I was an apprentice back in the early 1970s and did quite a bit of lathe and other machine work back in the day. However had not used a lathe since then so when in retirement I recently bought a cheap Chinese mini lathe I thought the skills would quickly come back …..some did and some didnt! So your channel has been great as a refresher……back in the day when I was an apprentice Feet and Inches were still a thing over here so even that is a reminder! Sometimes things dont quite translate when carried across the pond but pleased to say the language of engineering craftsmanship seems to be universal!
I'm in a predicament - how do we trade off Feed per Tooth vs Cutting Speed on hobby mills?
The 1” diameter tool is the best case example for a hobby mill and I still can’t make it work - 500SFM for aluminium, 1” tool = 2000RPM. Then following various sources that suggest recommended Feed per Tooth of 0.28mm(0.011”) for an end mill cutting aluminium, assume 2 flute, means the feed rate would need to be 18.66mm/s (1120mm/min) but realistically I can only turn the wheel on the mill twice per second, so 3mm/s max. And normally I’d be going 1.5mm/s to move the stages in a more controlled way. So I either have chips that are 0.0225-0.045mm(0.0009-0.0018”) ie 6-12x smaller than recommended, or I have to drop the RPM but then the cutting speed suffers.
And if we were to consider a 6mm (or ¼”) cutter, then things get a whole lot worse. The max rpm of my machine kicks in which is 2500rpm, so 6mm * 3.14159 * 2500 / 1000 / 0.3 = 157SFM. Not much I can do about that. And if I’m moving the stage at a controlled speed of 1 turn/s (1.5mm/s), then my chips will be 0.018mm (0.0007”). So the question is whether it’s better to slow the rpm down, to say 500 or 1000rpm to get thicker chips? And what do thin chips actually mean? Just unnecessary tool wear? Cheers, Frank.
The Adam Booth nod was well done. Gave me a giggle
if you like larger machines, don't miss Brian over at his channel, bcbloc02
I can relate as I often make parts that are thinner than some of chips he produces!
I love your videos, but for the sake of your older viewers, please try to talk a bit slower; my brain is a bit slower, my ears are s lot slower ;-)
Roger that! I will endeavor to do so. 😀
TH-cam has a Playback Speed setting. Just click the Gear Wheel bottom right of the Playback window, and select 0.75 or lower.
Quinn, i love the way you explain things. You should be labelled a hobby Machinists Legend, you would win that award for that definitely. And with that experience teachers us experience.
What is going on with the Machinists' Relay? Did the project get buried in AVE's empire of dirt?
It’s progressing, but slowly. Hang in there! Each video will get added to the playlist here when complete.
I do not look forward to needing to convert all the feed rates on an old artisan lathe as I likely need to convert the carriage lead screw to a modern ACME or ball screw. So far I have not found a good solution to recreating the 3/4"-double start 2tpi LH ACME thread on the worn-out leadscrew nut. So replacement and converting all of the feed rates is looking more and more like the only economical solution.
Thanks for going over the general details.
I have a hobby lathe and a hobby mill,i am new to machining..Have had these for a year now,and destroyed a lot of mill bits and carbide inserts.Reason is propably wrong speed.
The calculation here is hard to understand,not familiar with inches.Can anyone explain,if i have a 10mm mill bit and cutting steel what is the right speed?
MH assumes you know what material you are cutting. I have no idea what any of the material in my scrap bins are. On the mill, I go by ear to determine whether or not I'm pushing the Grizzly knee mill too hard. On the Atlas 618, the belt starts slipping if I'm pushing too hard. I have trouble remembering that carbide tooling likes high speeds.
I've watched this video I don't know five times already and while I understood what you were saying it wasn't connecting. This time I'm actually trying to find the correct way to find these settings and with the knowledge I've gained in the meantime your stating the problems in having time and time again. I know feed rate matters depending on the tooling you are using to cut (as well as other factors) but try to find a clearcut answer on how to calculate the correct feed. Every answer is SFM which okay cool where's the other incredibly important part of the answer? I could have my spindle doing one revolution an hour and a feed rate of a mile per minute (yes I'm being facetious) so long as it all adds up to the same SFM right? So this time around you have my undivided attention.
Okay, I see what you did and I appreciate it. I wanted to find out exactly how to calculate these settings and you showed us how to do it with any machine we own. Not that answer I wanted but the answer I needed kind of thing. Thanks for taking to the time to share your knowledge. I wouldn't have half to knowledge I do without youtube.
Good video. Say like to ask you how did you get so many subs on TH-cam. You have any helpful tips?
This is cool, now I have an idea where or for what to look. I know nothing about machining. I was given a benchtop/mini lathe and mill. I fixed all the electronics, built a controller (linuxcnc) etc, but when it comes to actually making stuff I'm clueless. Most time I waste on, what material is best to make this thing I want out of, what cutting tools/mill to use etc etc.?, This video helped quite a bit (usually when trying something on one of the machines, I figure when it makes more noise than my ex wife, something must be wrong... and go from there)
Hi Blondiehacks, if you have not read the book "The Amateur's Lathe" by LH Sparey, you should, in-fact every amateur should. Originally written for model engineers it is packed with information on the use of this class of lathe. Really useful information is in that book! It also has some machine drawings to make useful add on's for your lathe to increase its capability (Eg. collet set). Line boring, milling, reamer making, lapping, heat treatment, spring turning, spinning are just some of the topics covered.
PS. He discusses a technique obtaining a very high finish using HSS, and it is not using the shear tool, although I think it is mentioned somewhere.
Good quality content. Keep it up!!
Cheers.
Thanks for the tip! I will look that one up.
Thanks for the tip as well, I've just ordered the book - cost just under $20CAD, well worth it I expect!
You lost me on the tables.......
I'm just a carpenter looking to get a mill, but I definitely need to start on a metal lathe 😂😂
Thanks, I didn't know about the other tables.
Quinn, would you do us all a favor and rewrite and condense the big book for home hobbyists? Leather bound on vellum would be nice. It wouldn't take you but a weekend or two! 😜 Very nice job on this segment - thank you!
Leather made from the skins of our enemies? :)
I'd go for the King George's thumbs per fortnight if I had to do all that math too ...My answers would be about as accurate. (Ooo. Is that before or after gnawing on that leg bone of lamb? Thumb accuracy does count the amount of grease on the thumbs, right?) You have convinced me that I'm too old to change professions from retired Analyst to hobbyist machinist. Head hurts now. Thanks Quinn.
How did you measure the tool nose radius with calipers? I would've loved to see that part. I cant figure out how to do it myself.
Does the book really calculates based on 15min tool life? That's about how long my inserts last!
New subscriber here, Im on like the 12th video of your channel and I really like How informative and how you explain things. Thank you!
Of course if you really wanted to be mean, you could always say you used three-fifths of a millimeter per rev on walnut sized stock. But then, I'm proudly weird like that. Good video! The hobby scene needs much more of this!
Thanks for the info, something I had never formerly address due to the difficulty of it. Instead I learned feed and speed by the seat of my pants, which unfortunately resemble the fit of a skate boarder. Keep it up, and I will keep watching , cheers!
That’s how most of us learn it, I think. Hopefully this video will help someone skip that part. 😀
Good show, I learned in school to use the same formula , You answered the question why the machinery's handbook has different speeds and feeds , The SFPM I learned for steel is an even 100 , I have similar numbers for other metals from school This is a Guide THIS IS A GUIDE THIS IS A GUIDE My mistake is to use lower speeds not always good , After my course I used the formula a lot for turning ( Dia. of the part ) Drilling ( Dia of the drill ) Milling ( Dia of the cutter ) Today I play it by ear sometimes I will still use the formula ....
Great explanation. All i need to do now is buying a machinist handbook.
Today I learned what vestibular hyperacusis is and that I might have it.
I have a good friend who does, so I’m sympathetic to it.
Is that the same condition that Fainting/Nervous goats suffer from?
Quinn, my new to me "40's era lathe is broke down getting its first goog cleaning in 20 years! So it's a work in progress for now but keep the video's coming !!
Quinn, I noticed that your power feed rate went 0-9. Mine goes to 11.
You only broke my brain a little bit. My lathe restoration is very nearly done so I'll rewatch this a few times. Then it will be time to get some potato's and make some chips.
Your videos are some of the best on the topic of machining. Ur my hero
Ive spent months now trying to figure out what the diagrams and numbers meant on my (very) old craftsman metal lathe. Every guide I looked up was more numbers and units that really didn’t change my understanding. There was never an explanation of what the numbers meant. This video saved me. Thank you.
So no one else needs to step thru frame-by-frame to catch that screen flash of info around 0:33...
(Because, someone had to...)
1" diamater
Steel: Base 120 SFM
Roughing: 40 DOC, 10 thou feed = 500 RPM
Finishing: 2.5 thou feed = 800 RPM
Aluminum : Base 500 SFM
Roughing: 60 DOC, 10 thou feed = 2000 RPM
Finishing: 2.5 thou feed = (infinity) RPM
Brass : Base 350 SFM
Roughing: 60 DOC, 10 thou feed = 1400 RPM
Finishing: 2.5 thou feed = (infinity) RPM
Your welcome! :)
...And I just finished watching the rest of the video, and noticed that Quinn actually shows the info later, starting around 11:03. So much for thinking I was being clever/providing a public service... :)
I appreciated the effort anyway. 😬
Learned a great deal from this one video. Subscribed. Now processing data.
First time I've ever had the privilege.... First!
Thanks Quinn! Keep em coming! Love the content!
I have the same machine as Blondi! I'm just getting started out and I am having trouble figuring out what change gear setup is best for steel machining. I had to change them for a single point threading operation and now I can't seem to get my feeds and speeds right for turning/facing.
Whoops, I just finished the video and I think I have figured out now lol.
Another fantastic video! Calculator app purchased.
125 deep, 12 per? Isn't that what Brian Block calls a finishing pass? ;-)
...and it’s what Abom calls “Wednesday”. 😁
haaa.....she uses "rule of thumb"....that's awesome.
I'm skipping ahead to page 1017.
"Inches per tooth are important metrics".... ;-) that right there is final, stop everything, shut down the internet and go to the shop.... :-)
Really useful video. I always looked at those charts as i would at a red balloon during rain.
If it s explained in a manner like this it s really easy. Thanx.
Math is actually really useful in most production processes. Thanx
Btw could you maybe shout out few speeds maybe for gold alloy, silver or tantalum?
I can t find those anywhere.... :(
OK, now take a breath. Thanks for the video.
Where to buy machinist book?
Try a carbide insert for aluminium on brass and aluminium. The 20ø of rake really reduces the power needed to make a cut and the edges are ground so they are very sharp.
They are so cheap that using them for steel is not unrealistic either. They work really well on free cutting steel, they don't last as long as they do on nonferrous materials but as I said they are really cheap.
A lot of information at a mostly easy to digest format. Well done, and thank you.
-Joe.
This is a great video and what i was looking for. One question though. Im building a desktop type cnc lathe for making chess pieces out of aliminium and brass. If I direct drive my spindle from my 3hp 220v AC servo motor i only have 2500RPM. is that good enough? I can build a gearbox to got to 5000rpm if needed but that is alot more design a fab work.
You mention what a CNC shop does for feeds and speeds. Tooling manufactures recommendations, Machining Data Handbook and later HSM Advisor were my go to sources for speed and feed. Looking at the chip, sound and surface finish was what I used to dial it in.
Excellent explanation ,BUT ,you didnt take into account the central force index encabulator! Did ya? very important! Great vid!