I’m at a community college planning on transferring to a CSU for a bachelors then going to snatch a DPT at Lima Linda. I work as a PT Aid and I’m currently 20. I feel so much more aware of everything with your content and it’s undoubtably making me search for more efficient pathways for PT school. Thanks so much and I hope you keep producing more content just like this.
More people need to hear this. I had my mind set on going to pt school a year ago, but after learning more about the costs & dpt education itself, I’m thinking twice about it. And I feel like if I’m not 100% certain about pt school, the debt I’ll go into isn’t worth it
I completely agree with you and as an older student going back to school I actually kept the price in mind while picking my schools. It’s great that someone is saying this, but I do think that the culture we are in is really facilitating that our worth is based on how much we suffer.
I got in to Tufts a couple weeks ago. It’s $120,000+ for an accelerated online program. I paid the $500 deposit, but I think I’ll pass. Thank you so much for making this video, Tim!
See if they will give you your deposit back! Call them or write them a nice email asking if they would open the seat for someone else and ask if they would refund your deposit since we are in uncertain times and $500 would go a long way to help out right now.
Hi Tim, I've been following your contents for awhile now (since pre-pt times in undergrad) and I'm finding them to be more and more helpful as I progress thru PT school. You're absolutely right, it's super important to consider the cost (& everything you mentioned) before making a big financial decision like this. Thank you for these helpful insights - wish this video was available when I was in undergrad! haha
Thanl you for being honest with us Dr. Tim! It's rare to find a professional that will sincerely speak about some of the very serious and considerable decisions that are involved before deciding on going into a certain career. I've learned so much from you, please keep up the great work! 🙌
Take into account if you can commute from home and live for free. In my case, it was cheaper for me stay at home and go to a private school 20 minutes from my house and live with my parents than to move away to a public school and pay rent...
Best video you've done on this subject. I think one of the big factors not accounted for is cost of living. I know you said 15K, but I imagine 20-30K is more realistic unless you are living somewhere for free. Add in an extra 60-90K on top of tuition to factor in cost of living.
Thanks Trevor! I think you're right that cost of living can really spike the tuition. It can feel like free money to live...until you have to pay it back, while trying to earn current money to live! If anyone has to borrow 30k a year to live while in college/grad school...we need to talk 😂 I know it happens, but man, it's just a horrible way to start your career.
@@PTProgress Yeah, I suppose it depends on cost of living in the area. Also, for those who are married with kids, living on 30K is quite a feat. I know being married with kids is not the norm in PT school, but it happens.
I'm getting out of the navy, and considering PT school. the only reason i even want to go through with this, is because i have the GI bill.im going to take the L and foot the cost of my under grad and use my gi bill for a DPT program.
FINALLY 👏👏👏 SOMEONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH 🗣 SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE SCHOOL BOARDS IN THE BACKKKKKK!!!!! I’m currently an Exercise Science major at a public university & PT school is my next step in 2022, but I am still hesitating to commit because of the additional (and crazy ridiculous) amount of student loan debt I’ll accumulate from it with a small chance of being able to pay it back within a reasonable amount of time. I’m in school for something I love and because I want to be able to pay off my debt - not get myself into an even worse situation to pay student loan bills for the rest of my life 😣
Thanks so much for the information! I know the PT program for my public university is about $65K for all 3 years & this doesn’t even include $20K + for undergrad! It’s insane 😳
So I got accepted to Washington University St. Louis DPT program, ranked top in the country and the school Tim here went to, but Tim’s advice has helped me profoundly make this decision: After I graduated college, I took a gap year to work and save money to pay off some of PT school, and while I did get accepted to several schools, I ultimately was deciding between Washington and Rosalind Franklin in Illinois. I could either complete a 3 year DPT program and be around 150k in debt or one that is 2.5 years and in 100k debt. After learning through Tim how we get out what we put in and need to consider debt to income ratio, it helped me make the informed decision to NOT go to Washington. Ranking doesn’t mean anything to me, and I need to be practical in terms of realizing you will learn the same thing in every school and need to make a decision regarding which one can you keep your debt to income ratio 1 or less. Hope this helped anyone! Thanks for reading, and best of luck to applying students and current students!
Ali, congrats on getting into multiple PT schools and an even bigger congrats on making a great decision financially. I’m very proud of you and promise that if you put in the work, you’ll be a FANTASTIC PT! Can’t tell you how much it means to me that you found the videos helpful and that it saved you at least $50k! That’s awesome and you’re awesome - all the best to you!
@@PTProgress Thank you so much, Tim!! That means a lot. Yes, your videos helped profoundly! Your advice allowed me to take a gap year and save up roughly 15k which I can use to bring my 100k debt down to 85k and with PT having a starting salary of roughly 70-80k per year, my debt to income ratio is very reasonable. Especially because I hope to open my own practice one day and Rosalind’s program has a business/administration phase as part of their curriculum to help me do so, whereas Washington does not. All this helped me make the informed decision that, and I can’t thank you enough for that! I appreciate it more than you know!
Thank you so much for this video! You just saved me from making a financial mistake because the school I was accepted into is a big name program but also carries a hefty tuition rate. Thank you.
Glad you are making smart financial moves! Not worth spending an extra $75k for the name on your diploma because no employer will pay you any more for the job you get after school!
This is a much needed video. I just wish the PT schools would watch it. The only way the DPT schools will learn is when more people start heeding your advice. PT Assistant programs at public junior colleges are the way to go. They get the fun visits without all of the extra work!
Not sure what state you're in Tim, but in many/most places in Western, PA some of the lovely things to look forward to are as follows: there are zero raises or increases in cost of living, zero CEU reimbursement, (other than their generic corporate CEUs), ...for me, for over 12 years for both. Remember, if you don't provide "a service,"...which is how many settings are set up...you don't get paid...Ie; if you're outpatient pts reschedule, your HH pt is out shopping at Walmart and can't be bothered, the hospital is low on elective ortho surgeries, or your SNF pt, who you graciously waited for to be ready as you had to be clocked out, as to not burn productivity,because they couldn't miss the Maurey Povich 3 hour marathon...well, now they have a change of heart and can't be bothered with the effort it takes for tx .....part of which is extremely strenuous...you know rolling over so they can have IFC tx for their LBP. All the above, you didn't provide a service, so you're not getting paid. Don't forget some places, because of not being able to provide you with enough tx hours, you have to take hours out of your PTO to make up for that, so forget that vacation. As far as PRN, yeah you're getting $10 an hour less this year, and if they don't have pts available for you to tx w/n a certain time span,...look for the letter in the mail for autotermination. Oh, and that SNF pt , the NWB, LLE, Hip fx, that weighs 650# and has an extensive phych hx ...yeah the middle man company for his commercial insurance, you know the one that gives you 10 visits max, and then kicks the pt OOF irregardless, yeah they demand, (reinforced by the DOR), that STE have to be "trialed" even if it's "Max x 6"...who needs FIMs anyway, and you better realize that every minute is being tracked, in real time, on the billing system, in your iPad, sobdo not over deliver on minutes/units, ..no free tx, and remember, set up time for this pt does not count, it's not skilled,..if you have to clock out for several hours to assemble all supportive staff...well...you want to keep your job don't you? Speaking of wanting your job, don't forget to watch your back as when there's less pieces of the pie to go around, (aka hours for employees), many times you'll have very petty employees trying sneaking things, to ruin your reputation or career, as you're position won't be replaced by another therapist, you're tx hours will be absorbed between the remaining therapists, so hopefully your bil. shoulder IR ROM is beyond functional limits, as you'll need it to pull that knife out of your back All of this sounds very cynical, unfortunately all of this very true, and in my case all of these "issues" are very real and daily occurrences for 12 of the last 15 years of practice, and unfortunately most are getting worse and not better. I'm sure there are people that have not experienced these "issues" often, but in my neck of the woods I know a lot more people that have, vs. have not. I caution all prospective students to learn about nitty gritty "trends" ie; commercial insurances incorporating middle men to dictate tx length, documentation style, and at times certain clinical aspects of the treatments themselves, as well as saturation rates in the area, the elephant in the room : productivity and how it relates to that job, (along with what happens if your scheduled pts cancel/caseload is low,) etc., so that they're aware of the full picture when examining the ROI of all involved and going forth. As it stands right now, (with Covid playing a role), I can make significantly more money and have better stability with more days off, as an agency CNA, (I know as I've had to do this before, and might have to again, to make ends meet). Taking Covid out of the equation, this still holds true in my case, but not as substantial, which, I'm sorry, just blows my mind. I wish I had a crystal ball as I would have never predicted something such as this happening.
As a new grad as of 2020 and home health therapist... great video! It’s scary that the debt numbers you projected in this video are “conservative” as they’re already high... but the true statistics are probably towards the higher end 😱. It’s hard for me to recommend obtaining a DPT based on how things stand.
Man this spoke to my soul. this is a really, really.... great video. I wish I had seen this prior applying. I'm in my final year of PT school and I'm going to finish with toooo much debt. I'm actively trying to get creative to figure out how to do more than just PT and leverage it to make the debt worth it! Damnit Sallie.
My god it is so expensive! I'm from Portugal and I'm thinking to apply to a private PT school and its only 375 euros per month! Which is like 4000 euros per year (I know, its quite expensive in Europe since a lot of european countries have free colleges but comparing to USA.)
Hey Domenic! Thanks for commenting. If someone said they'd pay you $60,000 for ONE year just to live in Kansas City, KS would you do it? You could get a job maybe earning 30k as an entry level anything but they'd still pay you 60,000 on top of that? I know it may seem like a crazy thought, but instead of paying 100k+ for a NY state program, you could move to a new state like Kansas, obtain residency in that state by working and living there a year, then apply for the PT schools like Wichita State which is < $40k for residents (a $60,000 difference!). If you got in after 1 year, then you saved $60,000 because of that one year you spent working in KS and becoming a KS resident! That's a ton of money saved for one year of effort. IF it took two years to get into a Kansas state PT school for example, you'd still save 60k total and be ahead financially compared to someone who rushed into a state school 2 years before you and paid $60k more that what you'd pay. The point is that if you're serious about being a PT and you're willing to move for it, you might consider becoming a resident of a state like KS or TX to save a ton on student loans. That's probably the fastest $60k you'll save in the next couple of years and it only took one year of living in a different state.
@@PTProgress Thank you so much for the reply! This is some great information and some good incite. It is a lot to think about, but you have definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities. I will need to look into this idea of moving to another state to save money on grad school and to get paid on top of that. Again, thank you!
Hi Tim, I am a big fan of your content and your message. I am currently a 3rd year PT student and I will be coming out of school with around 180k. I was wondering if you're considering putting a video together on how students with a large amount of debt can quickly/effectively pay it off. I would appreciate any advice!
Will do Kevin - it's not easy but you can get out from under it. Until that video goes live, check out the 7 baby step video I posted on the channel too.
@@PTProgress Thanks Tim, I have purchased a few of the books you have recommended in previous videos such as I Will Teach You To Be Rich, The Millionaire Next Door, and The Total Money Makeover. Just looking for a more specific physical therapy centered approach with examples of different job settings and loan repayment options via FAFSA. Thanks for all the great information and helping new inspiring therapists stay on track!
In 2 years since the making of this video PT schools doubled their tuition again, with the average state cost now being $100,000 from $55,000 and private schools being almost double that.
PTAs are being laid off as the reimbursement for PTA treatments is being cut 15% or more by insurance so the cost benefit of employing them is decreasing. I don’t see PTAs being viable or a profession in 10-20 years at this rate.
@@jeffdaniels9761 wow that’s crazy hopefully that doesn’t happen. Most people aren’t going to want to pay so much money for a public PT program you know?
Hi Tim, I am a y1 pt student, may i ask u that do u see any future of being a physiotherapist, do u really like your job. Does physiotherapist really broke
I’m currently trying to decide if I should apply to a PTA program at my local tech school or just go ahead and apply to PT school in state (Georgia).However, one of my main concerns is definitely the cost of schooling and I was wondering which option would be better in the end in your opinion?
Hi Tim! New viewer and I so appreciate your content. Question - did you earn MBA and/or CFP before or after your DPT? CFP sounds like another way to help people that I would deeply love. I enjoy talking to my friends about budgeting, saving for retirement, paying off debt and avoiding whole life insurance 😂 and that preceded earning my DPT. Again, thanks so much for your content and your help! These messages are needed and they aren’t loud/common enough!!
Hey C B! Thanks for watching. I earned my MBA while I worked in finance (before PT) and sat for the CFP after my DPT because I thought it’d be a great way to mix the two fields I love. Thanks for stopping by and I hope you find the other content helpful too!
Thanks Rachel - Have you considered Wichita State? Looks like in-state tuition is $38,000 for ALL THREE YEARS!! Folks, this is a great example of how some state schools are still affordable. www.wichita.edu/academics/health_professions/pt/documents/program-cost.pdf The university of Kansas program is 110 hours x $416/hour for in-state, so it's just over $45,000 for tuition for all 3 years. It takes a little research, but you can find the state programs, calculate the costs, and only apply to the affordable PT schools.
Tim, what would you do in a case if hypothetically you get accepted in a local state PT school and a private out of state school but your dream is to move to the state where your private PT school is in? what things would you consider in this case?
Hi Tim, how do you feel about hybrid programs such as Baylor and South college DPT? South, for example, is 90,000 in total. However, it is only two years long and partially online so that one can live at home and save on room and board. Thoughts?
It’s on the higher end of what a PT can earn in a year so it’s pushing that 1:1 debt to income ratio I recommend. 2 year programs are new to me so I don’t know if it’s better or if that just means you get less training. Turning into the “shortest doctorate” degree out there, which is interesting. The hybrid option can work for some people, but I haven’t explored those programs in depth.
Hi I just applied to PT school and I should hear back within the next few months... do you have any suggestions if commuting is doable or is taking extra loans out to live near campus for convenience? The tuition for this public in-state tuition school is still going to be around 100k+ for me. I'm in NY.
Hey Selena - thanks for commenting. Paying for the convenience to live close to campus vs driving up to an hour is a good question. Personally I would drive up to an hour to PT school if you had the option to live at home. You could record your lectures and listen to them on the commute. With the tuition alone creeping up to 100k for your state schools, I would do everything possible to keep your student loans under 100k.
@@PTProgress Thank you for the advice! I was watching your video pretty aware of the crazy tuition costs prior but my costs just seemed even more than your video and I was just stunned
@@StarSmiles34 "The more you know 🌈". Seriously tho - glad you checked it out and hopefully you're able to find a way to keep your loans as low as possible. It's time to break away from the 'norm' of giant student loans...because being in debt for 10 years is not normal 😅
Do you recommend PTA school? There's a technical school that is not expensive. I'm just worried that I may not make as much money to live comfortable (1 br apt rent, 2021 car payments, regular bills) I don't live a life of luxary. I would work under a DPT at a hospital or a center. Is this a 9-5 5 days aweek profession?
Hello, Is it difficult for a PT to get another license in a different state? If I go out of state for my degree and then want to go back to my old state, would that be a difficult process? Maybe just wanting to move or travel in the future too. Different states have different requirements and I wanted to know how long can the process be. Thank you for the informative videos!!
thank you for he vid! I'm honestly considering possibly going international to save money...? there's only the one that is cape accredited but it's close to family and is comparable to instate tuition where I am :)) also I may not want to live in the US later on but we'll see
Thank you for making this. I wanted to ask about your opinion on majoring business before you came to dpt school. I felt like kinesiology is pretty useless outside of a few health careers. What would you rank each business emphasis that help with pt? Like is marketing good for pt?
Sure, any major can be good for PT. Really having an interest in business or marketing and reading business/marketing books will set you apart in business more than a degree.
@@PTProgress would you say that you were behind others because you majored in business instead of kines? Also is a degree in business not that worth it because of the abundance of information on books and websites?
@@user-ul5qe3zv2x No, it's all about how much time you put into your classes. There were kines and bio majors who struggled in the program. Learning the basics of business/marketing/accounting can be done on your own if you put the time in. Major in something you enjoy and that improves your skills.
@@PTProgress Are you utilizing your business degree outside of PT? I was curious to hear what you can do with the degree if you go along the pt route. Thank you so much
Would you have to rely 100% on loans or do you have an ability to pay for tuition or living expenses out of pocket or from a spouse/partners income? Personally I would have difficulty going back to school with 2 kids to care for if I didn’t have a significant source of income. If I had to rely on debt for 3 years and no income, I could not convince myself to pursue PT because the cost and time commitment and debt to income that would be challenging for a family of 4 starting out on a PT salary with a mountain of debt. If you have a good second income source, get into a state school that costs
Does that include living expenses? If someone graduated with 90k in debt from a private PT school I'd say that's definitely beating the average. Of course, the better question is this: what do you think of having to make a payment of $1,782 a month for 5 years on that 90k at 7% (or $1,044 for 10 years) while earning about $4800 after tax as a PT. While I advocate to keep student loans less that 1x the starting salary for PTs, the fact is that even a loan of 70k-90k results in a very large student loan payment and students need to be aware how much of their income will need to be dedicated to paying off the loan in 5 or 10 years.
I tell volunteer students to not go to PT school. I went when it was a BSPT. I would have never done this for the so called "Doctorate" which isn't remotely in the realm of real graduate school. (sorry your thesis is not nearly under the scrutiny of a real thesis that takes 3-6 months just to get your topic accepted AFTER your course work is done, you don't do orals, responsible for 5-7 K of pages, you don't teach lower level courses, you don't get a degree then an advanced degree and you are entry level on graduation---no one would hire you as a professor upon graduation. So think about all that before someone tries to defend that it is remotely legitimate) So, my answer is no---don't go. And the field has become complete garbage----I work one on one with patients---did it in snf and did it in OP. Most PTs don't--they see multiple patients at a time. They also keep seeing pts who won't get better due to lifestyle----I would never work in the lower 48 regular America (I work very periodically in Alaska in bad ass fishing towns where people are responsible.) So in short----stay out of this field--for debt and well . . . the field now.
It can save one full year of tuition - just be sure to run the numbers and it usually is a good way to save on cost, especially if it's a state program
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
How many here are interested in going to PT school? Have you ever seen this data before?
I’m interested and have never seen this data before that’s crazy
Do these prices include your undergraduate degree or just PT school?
@@griffindianich395 just PT school...undergrad debt would be separate
@@PTProgress okay thank you!
Can you do a video on what price range for a 3 and 3 program?
This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I need to hear as I'm looking at schools right now, thank you so much for this kind of content!
Wish I would have heard this advice before I went to PT school.
I’m at a community college planning on transferring to a CSU for a bachelors then going to snatch a DPT at Lima Linda. I work as a PT Aid and I’m currently 20. I feel so much more aware of everything with your content and it’s undoubtably making me search for more efficient pathways for PT school. Thanks so much and I hope you keep producing more content just like this.
More people need to hear this. I had my mind set on going to pt school a year ago, but after learning more about the costs & dpt education itself, I’m thinking twice about it. And I feel like if I’m not 100% certain about pt school, the debt I’ll go into isn’t worth it
Thank you for voicing reason. This is what someone who wants to become a PT needs to hear.
As a prospective student, I greatly appreciate this information. Thank you Tim!
Tim. You are saving lives with this video.
I am in my first semester of physical therapy school and PREACH to everything you are saying
I completely agree with you and as an older student going back to school I actually kept the price in mind while picking my schools. It’s great that someone is saying this, but I do think that the culture we are in is really facilitating that our worth is based on how much we suffer.
I got in to Tufts a couple weeks ago. It’s $120,000+ for an accelerated online program. I paid the $500 deposit, but I think I’ll pass. Thank you so much for making this video, Tim!
See if they will give you your deposit back! Call them or write them a nice email asking if they would open the seat for someone else and ask if they would refund your deposit since we are in uncertain times and $500 would go a long way to help out right now.
Thank you for making a video about this, really makes me rethink on how bad our education system is in terms of tuition.
Hi Tim, I've been following your contents for awhile now (since pre-pt times in undergrad) and I'm finding them to be more and more helpful as I progress thru PT school. You're absolutely right, it's super important to consider the cost (& everything you mentioned) before making a big financial decision like this. Thank you for these helpful insights - wish this video was available when I was in undergrad! haha
Wow. That really puts it into light. Way to take a stand in this. By the way, I had no idea public PT schools sounded like that😂😂😂
Hahaha, yes that's an actual recording of a public PT school 😂
Thanl you for being honest with us Dr. Tim! It's rare to find a professional that will sincerely speak about some of the very serious and considerable decisions that are involved before deciding on going into a certain career. I've learned so much from you, please keep up the great work! 🙌
Thank you for this video! I'm currently deciding between a public university and a private one ($63k v $100k).
You know which one I think is better 😉
Go for cheaper one.
Take into account if you can commute from home and live for free. In my case, it was cheaper for me stay at home and go to a private school 20 minutes from my house and live with my parents than to move away to a public school and pay rent...
Best video you've done on this subject. I think one of the big factors not accounted for is cost of living. I know you said 15K, but I imagine 20-30K is more realistic unless you are living somewhere for free. Add in an extra 60-90K on top of tuition to factor in cost of living.
Thanks Trevor! I think you're right that cost of living can really spike the tuition. It can feel like free money to live...until you have to pay it back, while trying to earn current money to live! If anyone has to borrow 30k a year to live while in college/grad school...we need to talk 😂 I know it happens, but man, it's just a horrible way to start your career.
@@PTProgress Yeah, I suppose it depends on cost of living in the area. Also, for those who are married with kids, living on 30K is quite a feat. I know being married with kids is not the norm in PT school, but it happens.
Yes it definitely does happen and is possible; it’s a challenge I’m sure!
I'm getting out of the navy, and considering PT school. the only reason i even want to go through with this, is because i have the GI bill.im going to take the L and foot the cost of my under grad and use my gi bill for a DPT program.
FINALLY 👏👏👏 SOMEONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH 🗣 SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE SCHOOL BOARDS IN THE BACKKKKKK!!!!!
I’m currently an Exercise Science major at a public university & PT school is my next step in 2022, but I am still hesitating to commit because of the additional (and crazy ridiculous) amount of student loan debt I’ll accumulate from it with a small chance of being able to pay it back within a reasonable amount of time. I’m in school for something I love and because I want to be able to pay off my debt - not get myself into an even worse situation to pay student loan bills for the rest of my life 😣
Can’t emphasize the importance of only applying to affordable programs. Good luck as you start the application process next year!
Thanks so much for the information! I know the PT program for my public university is about $65K for all 3 years & this doesn’t even include $20K + for undergrad! It’s insane 😳
I am so glad someone has spoken on this topic. This is exactly how I think!! I am applying this cycle.
Appreciate your candid approach. Helping my son make a decision about PT school. Thank you for your help!
So I got accepted to Washington University St. Louis DPT program, ranked top in the country and the school Tim here went to, but Tim’s advice has helped me profoundly make this decision:
After I graduated college, I took a gap year to work and save money to pay off some of PT school, and while I did get accepted to several schools, I ultimately was deciding between Washington and Rosalind Franklin in Illinois. I could either complete a 3 year DPT program and be around 150k in debt or one that is 2.5 years and in 100k debt.
After learning through Tim how we get out what we put in and need to consider debt to income ratio, it helped me make the informed decision to NOT go to Washington. Ranking doesn’t mean anything to me, and I need to be practical in terms of realizing you will learn the same thing in every school and need to make a decision regarding which one can you keep your debt to income ratio 1 or less. Hope this helped anyone! Thanks for reading, and best of luck to applying students and current students!
Ali, congrats on getting into multiple PT schools and an even bigger congrats on making a great decision financially. I’m very proud of you and promise that if you put in the work, you’ll be a FANTASTIC PT! Can’t tell you how much it means to me that you found the videos helpful and that it saved you at least $50k! That’s awesome and you’re awesome - all the best to you!
@@PTProgress Thank you so much, Tim!! That means a lot. Yes, your videos helped profoundly! Your advice allowed me to take a gap year and save up roughly 15k which I can use to bring my 100k debt down to 85k and with PT having a starting salary of roughly 70-80k per year, my debt to income ratio is very reasonable.
Especially because I hope to open my own practice one day and Rosalind’s program has a business/administration phase as part of their curriculum to help me do so, whereas Washington does not. All this helped me make the informed decision that, and I can’t thank you enough for that! I appreciate it more than you know!
Thank you so much for this video! You just saved me from making a financial mistake because the school I was accepted into is a big name program but also carries a hefty tuition rate. Thank you.
Glad you are making smart financial moves! Not worth spending an extra $75k for the name on your diploma because no employer will pay you any more for the job you get after school!
This is a much needed video. I just wish the PT schools would watch it. The only way the DPT schools will learn is when more people start heeding your advice. PT Assistant programs at public junior colleges are the way to go. They get the fun visits without all of the extra work!
Not sure what state you're in Tim, but in many/most places in Western, PA some of the lovely things to look forward to are as follows: there are zero raises or increases in cost of living, zero CEU reimbursement, (other than their generic corporate CEUs), ...for me, for over 12 years for both.
Remember, if you don't provide "a service,"...which is how many settings are set up...you don't get paid...Ie; if you're outpatient pts reschedule, your HH pt is out shopping at Walmart and can't be bothered, the hospital is low on elective ortho surgeries, or your SNF pt, who you graciously waited for to be ready as you had to be clocked out, as to not burn productivity,because they couldn't miss the Maurey Povich 3 hour marathon...well, now they have a change of heart and can't be bothered with the effort it takes for tx .....part of which is extremely strenuous...you know rolling over so they can have IFC tx for their LBP.
All the above, you didn't provide a service, so you're not getting paid. Don't forget some places, because of not being able to provide you with enough tx hours, you have to take hours out of your PTO to make up for that, so forget that vacation. As far as PRN, yeah you're getting $10 an hour less this year, and if they don't have pts available for you to tx w/n a certain time span,...look for the letter in the mail for autotermination.
Oh, and that SNF pt , the NWB, LLE, Hip fx, that weighs 650# and has an extensive phych hx ...yeah the middle man company for his commercial insurance, you know the one that gives you 10 visits max, and then kicks the pt OOF irregardless, yeah they demand, (reinforced by the DOR), that STE have to be "trialed" even if it's "Max x 6"...who needs FIMs anyway, and you better realize that every minute is being tracked, in real time, on the billing system, in your iPad, sobdo not over deliver on minutes/units, ..no free tx, and remember, set up time for this pt does not count, it's not skilled,..if you have to clock out for several hours to assemble all supportive staff...well...you want to keep your job don't you?
Speaking of wanting your job, don't forget to watch your back as when there's less pieces of the pie to go around, (aka hours for employees), many times you'll have very petty employees trying sneaking things, to ruin your reputation or career, as you're position won't be replaced by another therapist, you're tx hours will be absorbed between the remaining therapists, so hopefully your bil. shoulder IR ROM is beyond functional limits, as you'll need it to pull that knife out of your back
All of this sounds very cynical, unfortunately all of this very true, and in my case all of these "issues" are very real and daily occurrences for 12 of the last 15 years of practice, and unfortunately most are getting worse and not better.
I'm sure there are people that have not experienced these "issues" often, but in my neck of the woods I know a lot more people that have, vs. have not.
I caution all prospective students to learn about nitty gritty "trends" ie; commercial insurances incorporating middle men to dictate tx length, documentation style, and at times certain clinical aspects of the treatments themselves, as well as saturation rates in the area, the elephant in the room : productivity and how it relates to that job, (along with what happens if your scheduled pts cancel/caseload is low,) etc., so that they're aware of the full picture when examining the ROI of all involved and going forth.
As it stands right now, (with Covid playing a role), I can make significantly more money and have better stability with more days off, as an agency CNA, (I know as I've had to do this before, and might have to again, to make ends meet). Taking Covid out of the equation, this still holds true in my case, but not as substantial, which, I'm sorry, just blows my mind. I wish I had a crystal ball as I would have never predicted something such as this happening.
As a new grad as of 2020 and home health therapist... great video! It’s scary that the debt numbers you projected in this video are “conservative” as they’re already high... but the true statistics are probably towards the higher end 😱.
It’s hard for me to recommend obtaining a DPT based on how things stand.
Thanks Tony - my estimates are usually a bit more conservative, so it is definitely scary to think the numbers are on the higher side.
Thank you Tim I knew the numbers where high but dang
East Carolina University 2 years ago, was $21k. Now it's 43k. Seriously WTF
Man this spoke to my soul. this is a really, really.... great video. I wish I had seen this prior applying. I'm in my final year of PT school and I'm going to finish with toooo much debt. I'm actively trying to get creative to figure out how to do more than just PT and leverage it to make the debt worth it! Damnit Sallie.
My god it is so expensive! I'm from Portugal and I'm thinking to apply to a private PT school and its only 375 euros per month! Which is like 4000 euros per year (I know, its quite expensive in Europe since a lot of european countries have free colleges but comparing to USA.)
Great video, even for a PTA student like myself. Best wishes in all your future endeavors.
Is pta programs expensive as well ?
Glad that I live in a country that I only need to pay 400 € for a private pt school per month a public school is about 70-100€ per month
I completely agree...however as a New York resident it is very challenging looking for accredited PT schools that are under $100,000
Hey Domenic! Thanks for commenting. If someone said they'd pay you $60,000 for ONE year just to live in Kansas City, KS would you do it? You could get a job maybe earning 30k as an entry level anything but they'd still pay you 60,000 on top of that? I know it may seem like a crazy thought, but instead of paying 100k+ for a NY state program, you could move to a new state like Kansas, obtain residency in that state by working and living there a year, then apply for the PT schools like Wichita State which is < $40k for residents (a $60,000 difference!). If you got in after 1 year, then you saved $60,000 because of that one year you spent working in KS and becoming a KS resident! That's a ton of money saved for one year of effort. IF it took two years to get into a Kansas state PT school for example, you'd still save 60k total and be ahead financially compared to someone who rushed into a state school 2 years before you and paid $60k more that what you'd pay. The point is that if you're serious about being a PT and you're willing to move for it, you might consider becoming a resident of a state like KS or TX to save a ton on student loans. That's probably the fastest $60k you'll save in the next couple of years and it only took one year of living in a different state.
@@PTProgress Thank you so much for the reply! This is some great information and some good incite. It is a lot to think about, but you have definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities. I will need to look into this idea of moving to another state to save money on grad school and to get paid on top of that. Again, thank you!
@@PTProgress Tim, what other states have "cheap" in state tuition besides TX and KS?
@@amandagensiejewski8335 Missouri state residents: $56k tuition; Indiana State:
Hi Tim, I am a big fan of your content and your message. I am currently a 3rd year PT student and I will be coming out of school with around 180k. I was wondering if you're considering putting a video together on how students with a large amount of debt can quickly/effectively pay it off. I would appreciate any advice!
Will do Kevin - it's not easy but you can get out from under it. Until that video goes live, check out the 7 baby step video I posted on the channel too.
@@PTProgress Thanks Tim, I have purchased a few of the books you have recommended in previous videos such as I Will Teach You To Be Rich, The Millionaire Next Door, and The Total Money Makeover. Just looking for a more specific physical therapy centered approach with examples of different job settings and loan repayment options via FAFSA. Thanks for all the great information and helping new inspiring therapists stay on track!
Thank you for making this video. This is very helpful.
Thanks for watching
In 2 years since the making of this video PT schools doubled their tuition again, with the average state cost now being $100,000 from $55,000 and private schools being almost double that.
That’s ridiculous raising the cost I see why some people just stay as a PTA.
PTAs are being laid off as the reimbursement for PTA treatments is being cut 15% or more by insurance so the cost benefit of employing them is decreasing. I don’t see PTAs being viable or a profession in 10-20 years at this rate.
@@jeffdaniels9761 wow that’s crazy hopefully that doesn’t happen. Most people aren’t going to want to pay so much money for a public PT program you know?
@@devonmorquecho The profession will kill itself off via the school’s cost of tuition and stagnant reimbursement / salary if nothing changes
Thank you so much for your advice
Great video as always!
Can you do a video on physical therapist assistants is it worth it ?
The cost of PT school is making it not worth becoming a PT. Glad I went to public PT school and only paid a lot of money!
Hi Tim, I am a y1 pt student, may i ask u that do u see any future of being a physiotherapist, do u really like your job. Does physiotherapist really broke
I’m currently trying to decide if I should apply to a PTA program at my local tech school or just go ahead and apply to PT school in state (Georgia).However, one of my main concerns is definitely the cost of schooling and I was wondering which option would be better in the end in your opinion?
Lots of factors to consider but the math usually works in favor of the PTA, especially when compared to the six figure DPT debt.
Hi Tim! New viewer and I so appreciate your content. Question - did you earn MBA and/or CFP before or after your DPT? CFP sounds like another way to help people that I would deeply love. I enjoy talking to my friends about budgeting, saving for retirement, paying off debt and avoiding whole life insurance 😂 and that preceded earning my DPT. Again, thanks so much for your content and your help! These messages are needed and they aren’t loud/common enough!!
Hey C B! Thanks for watching. I earned my MBA while I worked in finance (before PT) and sat for the CFP after my DPT because I thought it’d be a great way to mix the two fields I love. Thanks for stopping by and I hope you find the other content helpful too!
Great video! I'm planning on applying to PT schools in a couple of years. Would you happen to have any recommendations for schools in Kansas?
Thanks Rachel - Have you considered Wichita State? Looks like in-state tuition is $38,000 for ALL THREE YEARS!! Folks, this is a great example of how some state schools are still affordable. www.wichita.edu/academics/health_professions/pt/documents/program-cost.pdf The university of Kansas program is 110 hours x $416/hour for in-state, so it's just over $45,000 for tuition for all 3 years. It takes a little research, but you can find the state programs, calculate the costs, and only apply to the affordable PT schools.
Thank you! I'll definitely look into those!
Another piece of advice to everyone!WATCH some Dave Ramsey
Tim, what would you do in a case if hypothetically you get accepted in a local state PT school and a private out of state school but your dream is to move to the state where your private PT school is in?
what things would you consider in this case?
Go to the cheaper school and get a job in the other state once you graduate 😁
thank you, tim!
Hi Tim, how do you feel about hybrid programs such as Baylor and South college DPT? South, for example, is 90,000 in total. However, it is only two years long and partially online so that one can live at home and save on room and board. Thoughts?
It’s on the higher end of what a PT can earn in a year so it’s pushing that 1:1 debt to income ratio I recommend. 2 year programs are new to me so I don’t know if it’s better or if that just means you get less training. Turning into the “shortest doctorate” degree out there, which is interesting. The hybrid option can work for some people, but I haven’t explored those programs in depth.
i should be studying for finals rn... think i'm gonna drop out of PT school instead. 😅
Are you really?
Erik A no. 😔
Great video
Tim, where did you get this data? I am working on helping some pre-pt's with some finance stuff!
It all comes from the PTCAS
Thanks brother
Thanks for the video. I am an undergrad pursing pt and what are some good pt schools in Missouri Arkansas area
Hi I just applied to PT school and I should hear back within the next few months... do you have any suggestions if commuting is doable or is taking extra loans out to live near campus for convenience? The tuition for this public in-state tuition school is still going to be around 100k+ for me. I'm in NY.
Hey Selena - thanks for commenting. Paying for the convenience to live close to campus vs driving up to an hour is a good question. Personally I would drive up to an hour to PT school if you had the option to live at home. You could record your lectures and listen to them on the commute. With the tuition alone creeping up to 100k for your state schools, I would do everything possible to keep your student loans under 100k.
@@PTProgress Thank you for the advice! I was watching your video pretty aware of the crazy tuition costs prior but my costs just seemed even more than your video and I was just stunned
@@StarSmiles34 "The more you know 🌈". Seriously tho - glad you checked it out and hopefully you're able to find a way to keep your loans as low as possible. It's time to break away from the 'norm' of giant student loans...because being in debt for 10 years is not normal 😅
@@PTProgress Truly! Not looking forward to that. Thanks again!
@@PTProgress a week later I got a phone call today that I got in so now I will try and juggle the costs! Stony Brook NY if you've ever heard of it :)
Do you recommend PTA school? There's a technical school that is not expensive. I'm just worried that I may not make as much money to live comfortable (1 br apt rent, 2021 car payments, regular bills) I don't live a life of luxary. I would work under a DPT at a hospital or a center. Is this a 9-5 5 days aweek profession?
Facts 💯 keep it real!
Thanks Chyna The DPT
"PT Schools HATE him!" XD
Haha. Probably.
Hello, Is it difficult for a PT to get another license in a different state? If I go out of state for my degree and then want to go back to my old state, would that be a difficult process? Maybe just wanting to move or travel in the future too. Different states have different requirements and I wanted to know how long can the process be.
Thank you for the informative videos!!
Hi Tim. Which video do you recommend I share at a Careers workshop tomorrow in Newport Beach?
This one is helpful for people interested in PT. cheers!
th-cam.com/video/_bxpfNJYGHo/w-d-xo.html
thank you for he vid! I'm honestly considering possibly going international to save money...? there's only the one that is cape accredited but it's close to family and is comparable to instate tuition where I am :)) also I may not want to live in the US later on but we'll see
Make sure it's CAPTE accredited or you'll have a nightmare on your hands trying to gain approval
Tell it like it is. I like it
Your talk with ole’ Sally😂😂
Thank you for making this. I wanted to ask about your opinion on majoring business before you came to dpt school. I felt like kinesiology is pretty useless outside of a few health careers. What would you rank each business emphasis that help with pt? Like is marketing good for pt?
Sure, any major can be good for PT. Really having an interest in business or marketing and reading business/marketing books will set you apart in business more than a degree.
@@PTProgress would you say that you were behind others because you majored in business instead of kines? Also is a degree in business not that worth it because of the abundance of information on books and websites?
@@user-ul5qe3zv2x No, it's all about how much time you put into your classes. There were kines and bio majors who struggled in the program. Learning the basics of business/marketing/accounting can be done on your own if you put the time in. Major in something you enjoy and that improves your skills.
@@PTProgress Are you utilizing your business degree outside of PT? I was curious to hear what you can do with the degree if you go along the pt route. Thank you so much
About how much would a pt working for a school district make? Or what type of class is that pt in?
Im 28 with 2 kids, in your expert opinion is it too late to start going back to school?
Would you have to rely 100% on loans or do you have an ability to pay for tuition or living expenses out of pocket or from a spouse/partners income? Personally I would have difficulty going back to school with 2 kids to care for if I didn’t have a significant source of income. If I had to rely on debt for 3 years and no income, I could not convince myself to pursue PT because the cost and time commitment and debt to income that would be challenging for a family of 4 starting out on a PT salary with a mountain of debt. If you have a good second income source, get into a state school that costs
How about a 90k state school 😭 NY is expensive.
That’s still more expensive than the 1x salary rule. You can move to another state, work a year, and become a resident and take advantage of the
What are your thoughts on a 90k private school program?
Does that include living expenses? If someone graduated with 90k in debt from a private PT school I'd say that's definitely beating the average. Of course, the better question is this: what do you think of having to make a payment of $1,782 a month for 5 years on that 90k at 7% (or $1,044 for 10 years) while earning about $4800 after tax as a PT. While I advocate to keep student loans less that 1x the starting salary for PTs, the fact is that even a loan of 70k-90k results in a very large student loan payment and students need to be aware how much of their income will need to be dedicated to paying off the loan in 5 or 10 years.
I tell volunteer students to not go to PT school. I went when it was a BSPT. I would have never done this for the so called "Doctorate" which isn't remotely in the realm of real graduate school. (sorry your thesis is not nearly under the scrutiny of a real thesis that takes 3-6 months just to get your topic accepted AFTER your course work is done, you don't do orals, responsible for 5-7 K of pages, you don't teach lower level courses, you don't get a degree then an advanced degree and you are entry level on graduation---no one would hire you as a professor upon graduation. So think about all that before someone tries to defend that it is remotely legitimate) So, my answer is no---don't go. And the field has become complete garbage----I work one on one with patients---did it in snf and did it in OP. Most PTs don't--they see multiple patients at a time. They also keep seeing pts who won't get better due to lifestyle----I would never work in the lower 48 regular America (I work very periodically in Alaska in bad ass fishing towns where people are responsible.) So in short----stay out of this field--for debt and well . . . the field now.
Would you still go to DPT school knowing what you know about DPT schools?
Great question - I made a video answering that very question: th-cam.com/video/AIt5vQodiS4/w-d-xo.html
Man you are a cool guy
Thoughts on 6-year accelerated programs?
It can save one full year of tuition - just be sure to run the numbers and it usually is a good way to save on cost, especially if it's a state program
What affordable PT schools would you recommend in Illinois?
Univ of Illinois or Bradley
Do you know of any scholarships for that? or do graduate schools even offer scholarships?
There are some scholarship resources and plan to share some ideas on that soon!
TRUTH!!!
Fortunately I am from a country well college is free so i can get an pt degree for free
Go PA or MD. Even better...engineering. Avoid PT.