similar for me, but I also found that electrolysis can transform brine solution into a range of usefull chemicals, there must be a reason why they just dump the brine back in the ocean though, maybe the equipment just costs to much, IDK
So, what I like about it is that the salt that is separated in desalinization processes can be used as energy *storage* that can later be used to generate electricity when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing. It would be interesting to see how it compares to alternative modes of energy storage. Liked and subscribed.
All steam turbines operate at between 40-45% efficiently. That means that to generate 1 GWatt of electricity it must first generate 2.1 GWatts of heat. After 1 GWatt of heat has been turned into electricity the "waste heat" is released into the atmosphere. This waste heat could be used to power vacuum distillation to the tune of about 6 million gallons per day. That's half of L.A. daily water needs. It also produces a lot of very salty brine.
8 years and no further info. I wonder if they have had patents bought out, and paid to keep their traps shut, meanwhile the project gets shelved so that major players can continue to make money from existing fossil tech.
It sounds very interesting & i'm happy that good companies are supporting this concept. Problem is I've been following the whole GW & new power generating concepts for many years....so many bright ideas, and they all seem to disappear without ever saying why .....couldn't be there are vested interests getting in the way could it ? I thought thoriom was going to be the 'big thing' once, apparently not ! I am now fed up after 30 years of waiting with anticipation for the world to fix it's own stupidities ! I'm 81 now & suspect I will not see any salvation for the wreckage we have wrought on this beautiful blue orb ! Humans are the blight on this planet !
I worked on a thesis in same format of using the soils ions to generate high voltage electricity, while amplifiying it with a transformer. The process discusses how to increase the salinity and moisture in the soil, and de- earthing it using electrodes, however replenishing salt and water as needed. Although I must thumb up for your process which just takes out the basic compositions needed off the soil and adopt a membrane that controls the ionic balancing as could be in electrolysis, I still hope however that upon completion of de-earthing, it can generate much amperage that could be adapted in nations as a cleaner renewable source of energy on industrial scale.
This could become like a huge respite to Oil & Gas EOR and even basic production facilities whether thats producing petroleum or Blue hydrogen trying to deal with excessive salt post ZLD or Carbon sequestration. The produced electricity could save some considerable energy from conventional resources too.
I was very interested in the statement at 4:55. Does that mean it's not scalable? Because if this were sustainable and profitable and had no environmental risk, I would think that utility companies would be aggressively developing it. It sounds almost too good to be true.
They say you can scale it up indefinitely, but realistically what are we looking at? I know this will not be the only solution to clean energy, just part of the solution, but still want to know how practical it is and how much energy they expect it to produce.
In theory...couldd this be used as a wall segment? If you then connected it to a voltage transformer and all the other gizmos needed, could you ultimatly create a wall that had a socket which you could charge your phone for example? I mean, you would need to resupply the water I guess, needing to drain it into vats in the cellar and resupply from the roof, but could it in theory be done, and if so what's a good guesstimate on how much power it couldd supply?
Would it work by utilizing the brine waste water from a desalination plant. At present desalination generates a lot of ultra high saline water and needs vast amounts of power. This would offer that high brine water before discharge. It's already dumped into the sea to dilute it but it could generate power to run the plant before that exit
@@royjaber571 What about battery plus mechanical? Because a lot of these videos make it seem like...there's industries depending on most of us being extremely stupid...and most of us are close, true
One thing we need to do is move water from the ocean back inland to places we need it and if we can do that while generating clean energy we have a chance to mitigate climate change and still have a prosperous future. It is really, really hard but it is not impossible. The biggest idea I am trying to express is tunneling aqueducts from the coast, in this case the west coast of the USA inland to feed combination geothermal power and sea water desalination plants. The idea seems to be so big that no one has considered it possible but I believe it is not only possible but it is necessary. For over a century the fossil water contained in aquifers has been pumped out to feed agriculture, industry and municipal water needs. The natural water cycle cant refill fossil water deposits that were filled 10,000 years ago when the glaciers melted after the last ice age. Without refilling these aquifers there is not much of a future for the region of the United states. As a result ground levels in some areas of the San Joaquin Valley have subsided by more than 30 feet. Similar fossil water depletion is happening in other regions all around the world. TBM and tunneling technology has matured and further developments in the industry are poised to speed up the tunneling process and it's these tunnels that are the only way to move large volumes of water from the ocean inland. The water is moved inland to areas where it can be desalinated in geothermal plants producing clean water and power. In many cases the water will recharge surface reservoirs where it will be used first to make more hydro power before being released into rivers and canal systems. It's very important however to not stop tunneling at these first stops but to continue several legs until the water has traveled from the ocean under mountain ranges to interior states. Along the way water will flow down grade through tunnels and rise in geothermal loops to fill mountain top pumped hydro batteries several times before eventually recharging several major aquifers. What I am proposing is essentially reversing the flow of the Colorado River Compact. Bringing water from the coast of California first to mountaintop reservoirs then to the deserts of Nevada and Arizona and on to Utah, New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming. This big idea looks past any individual city or states problems and looks at the whole and by using first principles identifies the actual problem and only solution. Thank you for your time, I would like the opportunity to explain in further detail and answer any questions. A better future is possible
So, these tunnels going hundreds of miles from the coast (and through the Sierras, etc. to Nevada or going through southern California to Arizona, etc.), would they be sloped to allow gravity assist to move the water inland? How far deep, below the ground would they be at Blythe, California (elevation 272 feet above sea level)? "...water will flow down grade through tunnels and rise in geothermal loops to fill mountaintop pumped hydro batteries [reservoirs?]..." What do you mean by geothermal loops? Another issue, since this is about brine (which is the result of desalination), where would this sea water desalination occur? ...One issue of the waste brine is that apparently it can't be dumped in near-coastal waters without harming the marine life (and fishing stocks, aquafarming activities, etc.). Wouldn't you need aqueducts beneath the oceans to take this brine from the coasts, ultimately, to the edge of the continental shelf to dump it into the ocean depths where the vast deep could reabsorb this quantity of salt?
Interesting idea! How scalable is this? What would be the (profitable, sustainable) wholesale cost of electricity (before it reaches the grid)? What are the environmental impacts and/or risks?
Hi, i'm working on inverse electrodialysis for my engineering test in France. I try to develop a model which could explain how to generate energy with difference salinity gradient links to electrodialisis inverse. I have some questions about oxred reaction at anode and cathode. Thanks you in advance
well their design probably nafion and fumasep membranes or their own membranes which there are many you can choose/make. the hard part is making anion exchange membranes because stupid meth cooks ruined the availability of one of the main reagents used to make it and that is methyl iodide which is needed to convert the amines into the quaternary form.
I think it’s because it’s still being researched and also those membranes might be costly to purchase, maintain, and install so they’re not interested in it yet. If this goes very well though, it’s very promising for places having water issues as the environmental effects of brine is very important. For now though, it might not yet be in a marketable stage.
Desalinization creates brine that is extremely toxic to the ocean. What they aren’t saying is what happens to the resultant mixture ? The sea water ( brackish water ) becomes a brine of sorts. Is this reclaimed for re use??
How can brine which came from the oceans be toxic to those oceans? I think it is a problem if you dump all this brine too close to the coast (or in areas currently being exploited for other purposes for which the excessive salt would be a problem). Is it feasible to take the brine out beyond the continental shelf and dump in the deep? Could the enormous volume of the oceans (which receives how much replenishing non-salty water from rains and drainage?) be able to absorb this waste brine -- even if desalination were done on a massive scale on this planet? Ultimately, ALL waste gets returned to our planet (the soil, the water, the air) -- even our bodies. Given enough time, nature breaks down the elements and reabsorbs it all. ...It's not like we are ADDING salt to the oceans that wasn't already there; nor is it like the water we TAKE OUT never ultimately goes back to those oceans. (It ALL does. Is water destroyed? No. It is eliminated from our bodies as waste, it is perspired from our bodies, it is returned in a polluted form from our industries and our sinks and our toilets and polluted streams. ...Even if we say, "Yes; but much of that water is TREAETED before returning to the Earth!", the waste itself is ultimately going back to the Earth -- in one form or another. It's not like it's going off-planet or something.)
@@MrJm323 I see where you would believe this but it is not quite correct. The salt content of the ocean is a very balanced thing. In very small amounts the effect you draw would be correct, with the exception that the pockets of brine dumped into the ocean would kill all plant and plankton and fish in the immediate area until it became equalized. Those losses of aquatic life would take decades to rebalance or recover. In the quantities discussed to provide water for hundreds or thousands let alone, more, the ability to balance is not there. The rains you discuss are simply replacing the water lost through evaporation and eventual runoff over land through rivers and streams. The average 1st world human utilizes 75 gallons of water a day between showers, laundry waste treatment etc. the water through run off and use is not dumped back into the ocean and is specifically not dumped back where the brine is dumped. Much of that water is now full of chemicals and bodily waste that requires work to return clean water. It doesn’t immediately return to the clean state that it was in. The net result is increasing brine levels and increasing toxic levels within the oceans. Massive damage to the eco system that is designed to aid in keeping the water clean now creates a cascade of other toxic issues as a result. Your thoughts of all trash going back to the earth it came from is ridiculously simple and not well thought out. We as humans create compounds through mixing the earths resources in ways that would never exist in nature. This mixing of compounds creates items like plastic that will NEVER return to what it was and be located where it was in the ecosystem. Even things like aluminum are hybrids not found in nature that the breakdown of doesn’t create the homeostatic environment you suggest. The complexity of the water issue alone fills volumes of research books, far more than we can cover here.
We started now a group in LinkedIn to discuss the progress of this project and of other projects that work on electrodialysis applications: www.linkedin.com/groups/8596116
When you say that only public funds can pay for a project like that, bells start ringing and warning lights go off everywhere. Ding ding ding......... money black hole. Zero return on investment. Corporate sponsors evaporate along with the water.
That’s a really good point. Your comment is two years old and this reverse edi did not take off and will most likely not reach scalability. Those public funds were used wisely to build cabins and secondary houses and pay for some outrageous salaries. Public funds are less monitored with every new administration coming along. Political black hole
A Perfect Storm at Diablo Canyon by joey racano There has always been a myriad of threats to the precious coast of California. Sewage, overfishing, oil drilling and recently, seismic testing, to name a few. But never before have so many of these threats developed into the perfect storm now bearing down on the central coast in San Luis Obispo County. At the eye of the storm is the push for large-scale seawater desalination. Like a furry sea otter with a cute little nose, desalination has a certain appeal- something they call water. Fresh, clear, pure, quenching, life- affirming water. With propaganda power like that, desalination of seawater is the obvious choice to anchor the team of onrushing coastal- and inland- destruction. As a city council candidate in Huntington Beach, I remember the expensive, colorful full-gloss mailers sent out by the hundreds of thousands to every household, extolling the benefits of desalination and a big bright photograph of local firemen with a hose. But the company behind the push, Poseidon Resources LTD, were no friend of the citizens, or the coast. They had a similar scam running in Tampa Bay, and walked away leaving the city holding the bag with a desal plant that ran way over budget and never performed as advertised. They are still trying to build that plant in Huntington Beach to this very day, co-located with the AES Power Plant, a company who themselves walked away from a multi-billion-dollar plant in Europe a few years ago. For a clearer picture, one must look at all the large-scale desalination projects proposed for the West Coast (one already having been built in Carlsbad). The desalination plants all have one thing in common- all are proposed to be built co-located or ‘piggy-backed’ on the existing seawater cooling intake pipes of coastal power plants! This is not an accident. As one mentor taught me, “This is not about water. It has never been about water. The entire ocean desalination scheme is all about the seawater intakes. They are incredibly destructive and are killing vast amounts of plankton. They are so infamous they are no longer permitted to be built and are being removed. But slap a desal unit piggy back on that intake pipe, and you have larvae destruction forever. Larvae means plankton, and plankton means every fish in the ocean. The process of saving your intake by co-locating a desal on it is known as ‘enshrinement.’ You see the danger. Another drawback of desalination is the filters clog up a lot, because you have to shoot the salt water through a membrane at very high pressure. This takes a prohibitive amount of energy. And that brings us to the next part of this perfect storm of coastal destruction: the colossal offshore wind turbines. There have never been studies on the effect on the marine environment of vibrations that would go around the clock 365 days a year. There have been studies though, showing the giant assemblage of wind turbines frightens migrating birds to the point they take huge evasive action. Action so evasive that it keeps the birds from resting or feeding and will lead to their eventual extinction. Then there is the issue of being a navigational hazard to whales. Then there is the issue of what becomes of these turbines, each over a thousand feet tall, when they reach the end of their design life. Like oil rigs-to-reefs, they will be dumped right where they stand and called reefs. Finally, these turbines would utilize the existing PG&E infrastructure, we all now know as ‘fire wires.’ Then the water will be used in court to get permission to develop every last bit of open land for many miles of coast and many miles inland. The end result of desalination is concrete jungle from San Francisco to Maryland, with future citizens standing in long lines at the coast waiting their turn to gaze out over a dead and dying ocean. But on the bright side, maybe by the time the Diablo Canyon nuclear waste is no longer dangerous, a half million years from now, the ocean will recover. Maybe. Joey Racano, Director Ocean Outfall Group www.oceanoutfallgroup.com
All I got out of this book-length thesis was that wind power is totally insufficient to provide the enormous power needed for large scale de-salination plants ....and.... the seawater intakes of the currently-used cooling pipes (for existing power plants) would kill too many plankton if they were scaled up as seawater intake pipes for desalination plants. Well, as to the first issue, it really would be a "scam" if someone were proposing that seawater desalination (on the scale that we would need to satisfy our water needs) could be powered by wind turbines. Unless one's state is sitting on vast reserves of oil (like in the Persian Gulf), the only practical energy source that could provide the "prohibitive amount of energy" to make this do-able would be nuclear energy. As to the second issue -- that of killing plankton, new intakes would have to be developed to REDUCE the amount killed. I don't know if filters could help or the choice of what depth the intakes are positioned at, etc.. All you are telling us is that the specific plans of this one company are a problem.
@@MrJm323 Thank you for your excellent reply to my comment. As for wind energy, the amount of electricity supplied would depend on the wind and how many turbines, so your claim to the contrary is incorrect. As for the nukes, the length of half life of waste is so far into the future that it is reasonable to call its fate out of our hands. No way to predict what will become of anything in half a million years. As for scaling back the damage caused by traditional seawater cooling intakes through redesign, aren't we forgetting that desalinated water and the energy it takes to produce it is not at all needed except to accommodate the same out of control behavior (growth and its corresponding environmental degradation) that has already backed us into a corner? Joe Racano, Director, OOG
Can't you just take a river, and instead that it just flows into the ocean, it flows through those cells at the ocean? Furthermore, as you need a slow flow rate you can slow it down by a normal water power plant before.
Let’s Discuss Desalination Let’s discuss Desalination Could it be right for our nation Let’s explore both pro and con Before you turn those sprinklers on First let’s see how Desal works How it’s owned by greedy jerks Who built a plant and ran away Leaving Tampa Bay to pay Two faced liars call it salt What they dump like it was malt But brine is so bad for the sea Concentrated impurity Then the issue of intake Suck fish in and set on bake Plankton are our baby fish Want dead ocean? Got your wish Should we drink desalted water Knowing sea life it will slaughter? What would Desal set in motion? It would sterilize the ocean! Now it’s time to speak of cost How much San Diego lost Built a plant and spent a billion To serve seven percent of over three million! With 40 million in our state Do the math, extrapolate California needs 200 plants That’s half a trillion- with no grants Perhaps the greatest threat of all Fukushima comes to call Tritium can’t be removed Ice cubes glow when thirst is soothed Get yours at the Geiger counter Desal water large amounter Hate to throw you such a curve Maybe we should just conserve Joseph John Racano, Director Ocean Outfall Group
المعجزة القادمة فى حوض المتوسط هى توليد كهرباء من الملاحات - ولا إحنا دريانين بحاجة فى الدنيا كلها - خلينا فى العبط والكراهية والغباء وبس فى مصر وبقايا حطام وأنقاض خرائب العالم العربى - ما هما حلوين برضه
1 kW , wow , what a great investment of time and money, not to forget needing a supply of salt , and sea water , no waste except that the seawater get more salty .
It’s called a proof of concept dingus. They need to show potential investors that the technology works reliably and can be scaled up to industrial capacity. Combine this with a solar system and a desalination plant such as in Saudi Arabia and then you have the potential for near 100 renewable energy.
@Orching do you know what proof of concept is genius? It just demonstrates that whatever concept you’re discussing can be done and in whatever circumstances that needs to be considered at the time. Or in even more simpler terms a frickin BASELINE! Also, way to assume that they haven’t been working on it since this post has been up, it not like you are directly involved in the project.
I live in California. So I can attest. Most desalination plants that will be added in the future will be added by private companies. Cities in America sadly don’t pull in enough money to generally maintain their maintainence. So while this would cut costs and raise money through electricity, I would assume the hold up here would be the reformatting of existing systems. California is really good at jumping in balls deep in the first mention of something new, only to have feilds of ineffecient solar panels(I say this because just a few years later and we have cheaper better panels that use a fraction of the material) but we already wasted the money on it. I have plans to do some fun stuff. But it will take a lot of public support.
This is exactly what I was lookin for after watching reverse osmosis desalination process!!!
Lol me too
I literally just did the exact same thing😂
similar for me, but I also found that electrolysis can transform brine solution into a range of usefull chemicals,
there must be a reason why they just dump the brine back in the ocean though, maybe the equipment just costs to much, IDK
Lol same.
@@istoppedcaring6209
I was thinking those companies would sell the salt for profit instead of dumping it
smh
So, what I like about it is that the salt that is separated in desalinization processes can be used as energy *storage* that can later be used to generate electricity when the sun isn't shining or the wind isn't blowing. It would be interesting to see how it compares to alternative modes of energy storage. Liked and subscribed.
Using this technology in combination with solar dome brine run off seems like a win win in theory. Great job!
Sounds like perhaps the holy grail for desalination plants. Imagine producing enough energy to make such plants self sustaining
Amazing. I hope to make a project working with low pressure pumps, desalination, and this looks like a lovely use for the brine
This could work great at desalination plants where a lot of brine is produced as a waste product of Osmosis!
th-cam.com/video/KdFIHecZDfc/w-d-xo.html
not at all.
@@joeyracano1 Explain why not.
@@Kingstonian1G Because desalination plants are too destructive in the first place. Your business model would depend on the destruction of ocean life.
@@joeyracano1 dessalination plants are only destructive if the brine is rejected into the ocean.
All steam turbines operate at between 40-45% efficiently. That means that to generate 1 GWatt of electricity it must first generate 2.1 GWatts of heat. After 1 GWatt of heat has been turned into electricity the "waste heat" is released into the atmosphere. This waste heat could be used to power vacuum distillation to the tune of about 6 million gallons per day. That's half of L.A. daily water needs. It also produces a lot of very salty brine.
very positive and encouraging idea
8 years and no further info. I wonder if they have had patents bought out, and paid to keep their traps shut, meanwhile the project gets shelved so that major players can continue to make money from existing fossil tech.
Amazing project! Any updates? I see this was posted some years ago.
It sounds very interesting & i'm happy that good companies are supporting this concept. Problem is I've been following the whole GW & new power generating concepts for many years....so many bright ideas, and they all seem to disappear without ever saying why .....couldn't be there are vested interests getting in the way could it ? I thought thoriom was going to be the 'big thing' once, apparently not ! I am now fed up after 30 years of waiting with anticipation for the world to fix it's own stupidities ! I'm 81 now & suspect I will not see any salvation for the wreckage we have wrought on this beautiful blue orb ! Humans are the blight on this planet !
Today, energy innovators only wish to potentially make a big enough impact on the market to be bought out by the elites.
It would take a revolution
how are you in 2022?
What to do with the brine produced by desalination has been a major issue. This sounds like an interesting solution.
Yeah exactly 💯
I'd also use it to clear up snowy roads
Holy shit, I'm not a scientist but this is amazing!
I worked on a thesis in same format of using the soils ions to generate high voltage electricity, while amplifiying it with a transformer. The process discusses how to increase the salinity and moisture in the soil, and de- earthing it using electrodes, however replenishing salt and water as needed.
Although I must thumb up for your process which just takes out the basic compositions needed off the soil and adopt a membrane that controls the ionic balancing as could be in electrolysis, I still hope however that upon completion of de-earthing, it can generate much amperage that could be adapted in nations as a cleaner renewable source of energy on industrial scale.
Any update on your project ?
@@hitechtraders723 you may want to send your email address so we can chat privately!
I'm interested in this project,please may I be updated on this as well
This could become like a huge respite to Oil & Gas EOR and even basic production facilities whether thats producing petroleum or Blue hydrogen trying to deal with excessive salt post ZLD or Carbon sequestration. The produced electricity could save some considerable energy from conventional resources too.
I was very interested in the statement at 4:55. Does that mean it's not scalable? Because if this were sustainable and profitable and had no environmental risk, I would think that utility companies would be aggressively developing it. It sounds almost too good to be true.
Maintaining a common voltage across all cells will be a real challenge. You need to install a voltage transformer to regulate a constant voltage.
Excellent Research Project.
This is beautiful, will the two houses that it powers have an opportunity to be able to sell back into the grid any excess generation??
Desalination process do give the brine solution that can be used for generation of Electricity that creates an Energy Loop.
so i guessing this was not fisable due to the fact this research project was so-posed to be done 3 years ago and their no update video
What materials did you use for the membranes?
Amazing technology! Bravo!
They say you can scale it up indefinitely, but realistically what are we looking at?
I know this will not be the only solution to clean energy, just part of the solution, but still want to know how practical it is and how much energy they expect it to produce.
could be usefull for countries without freshwater supply by using brine from sea desalination plant.
How much energy could a desalination plant expect to recoup if this was used in combination with freshwater generation?
GREAT IDEA ! The reversal of electrolysis. Maybe indeed as mentioned in a comment below, better de-earthing can increase efficiency for the system.
In theory...couldd this be used as a wall segment? If you then connected it to a voltage transformer and all the other gizmos needed, could you ultimatly create a wall that had a socket which you could charge your phone for example?
I mean, you would need to resupply the water I guess, needing to drain it into vats in the cellar and resupply from the roof, but could it in theory be done, and if so what's a good guesstimate on how much power it couldd supply?
Would it work by utilizing the brine waste water from a desalination plant. At present desalination generates a lot of ultra high saline water and needs vast amounts of power. This would offer that high brine water before discharge. It's already dumped into the sea to dilute it but it could generate power to run the plant before that exit
any chance there is a more in depth explanation of how the movement of ions create and electric charge?
Electricity is the movement of the electrons that's how it works
No matter what the source of power is if you can make electrons move, you got power
Electricity is the movement of the electrons that's how it works
No matter what the source of power is if you can make electrons move, you got power
@@royjaber571 What about battery plus mechanical? Because a lot of these videos make it seem like...there's industries depending on most of us being extremely stupid...and most of us are close, true
@@sampleoffers1978 anything that makes electrons move
Next: Recommend this to Saudi Arabian desalination companies.
One thing we need to do is move water from the ocean back inland to places we need it and if we can do that while generating clean energy we have a chance to mitigate climate change and still have a prosperous future. It is really, really hard but it is not impossible.
The biggest idea I am trying to express is tunneling aqueducts from the coast, in this case the west coast of the USA inland to feed combination geothermal power and sea water desalination plants. The idea seems to be so big that no one has considered it possible but I believe it is not only possible but it is necessary. For over a century the fossil water contained in aquifers has been pumped out to feed agriculture, industry and municipal water needs. The natural water cycle cant refill fossil water deposits that were filled 10,000 years ago when the glaciers melted after the last ice age. Without refilling these aquifers there is not much of a future for the region of the United states. As a result ground levels in some areas of the San Joaquin Valley have subsided by more than 30 feet. Similar fossil water depletion is happening in other regions all around the world. TBM and tunneling technology has matured and further developments in the industry are poised to speed up the tunneling process and it's these tunnels that are the only way to move large volumes of water from the ocean inland. The water is moved inland to areas where it can be desalinated in geothermal plants producing clean water and power. In many cases the water will recharge surface reservoirs where it will be used first to make more hydro power before being released into rivers and canal systems. It's very important however to not stop tunneling at these first stops but to continue several legs until the water has traveled from the ocean under mountain ranges to interior states. Along the way water will flow down grade through tunnels and rise in geothermal loops to fill mountain top pumped hydro batteries several times before eventually recharging several major aquifers. What I am proposing is essentially reversing the flow of the Colorado River Compact. Bringing water from the coast of California first to mountaintop reservoirs then to the deserts of Nevada and Arizona and on to Utah, New Mexico, Colorado and Wyoming. This big idea looks past any individual city or states problems and looks at the whole and by using first principles identifies the actual problem and only solution.
Thank you for your time, I would like the opportunity to explain in further detail and answer any questions.
A better future is possible
So, these tunnels going hundreds of miles from the coast (and through the Sierras, etc. to Nevada or going through southern California to Arizona, etc.), would they be sloped to allow gravity assist to move the water inland? How far deep, below the ground would they be at Blythe, California (elevation 272 feet above sea level)?
"...water will flow down grade through tunnels and rise in geothermal loops to fill mountaintop pumped hydro batteries [reservoirs?]..."
What do you mean by geothermal loops?
Another issue, since this is about brine (which is the result of desalination), where would this sea water desalination occur? ...One issue of the waste brine is that apparently it can't be dumped in near-coastal waters without harming the marine life (and fishing stocks, aquafarming activities, etc.). Wouldn't you need aqueducts beneath the oceans to take this brine from the coasts, ultimately, to the edge of the continental shelf to dump it into the ocean depths where the vast deep could reabsorb this quantity of salt?
2:30 fuji film still in business? even in 2014
How to deal with Desalination waste at Salton Sea
good idea, how much energy does it produce per liter
Interesting idea! How scalable is this? What would be the (profitable, sustainable) wholesale cost of electricity (before it reaches the grid)? What are the environmental impacts and/or risks?
Is it possible to communicate out of here ?
I like u guy creativity and innovation but you can also create alta native
what are the charge transfer reactions producing electrons? I only see ionic conduction.
Why isn't this news?!
Πώς πάει αυτό το project, συνεχίζεται? Είδα με χαρά έναν έλληνα στο βίντεο, τον Κ. Παπαπέτρου και χαίρομαι!! Ελπίζω να είχατε καλά αποτελέσματα!
Hi, i'm working on inverse electrodialysis for my engineering test in France. I try to develop a model which could explain how to generate energy with difference salinity gradient links to electrodialisis inverse. I have some questions about oxred reaction at anode and cathode. Thanks you in advance
It will never get off the ground commercially because it works. think about it
Hi I am interested in how your project is going, did you get any results?
What is the membrane made from? Very cool project. :)
well their design probably nafion and fumasep membranes or their own membranes which there are many you can choose/make.
the hard part is making anion exchange membranes because stupid meth cooks ruined the availability of one of the main reagents used to make it and that is methyl iodide which is needed to convert the amines into the quaternary form.
Why aren't all desalination plants using this with their brine waste?
I have been wondering the same.
I think it’s because it’s still being researched and also those membranes might be costly to purchase, maintain, and install so they’re not interested in it yet.
If this goes very well though, it’s very promising for places having water issues as the environmental effects of brine is very important.
For now though, it might not yet be in a marketable stage.
So what happenes to the sodium chloride atom in this excange
Suck an amazing channel but with very few subs. It deserves 20 M subs
Now 2021 - what come out of it?
excellent
You got the osmotic gradient the WRONG WAY AROUND !
We can extract salt with brine and start selling it?
Desalinization creates brine that is extremely toxic to the ocean. What they aren’t saying is what happens to the resultant mixture ? The sea water ( brackish water ) becomes a brine of sorts. Is this reclaimed for re use??
How can brine which came from the oceans be toxic to those oceans? I think it is a problem if you dump all this brine too close to the coast (or in areas currently being exploited for other purposes for which the excessive salt would be a problem). Is it feasible to take the brine out beyond the continental shelf and dump in the deep? Could the enormous volume of the oceans (which receives how much replenishing non-salty water from rains and drainage?) be able to absorb this waste brine -- even if desalination were done on a massive scale on this planet?
Ultimately, ALL waste gets returned to our planet (the soil, the water, the air) -- even our bodies. Given enough time, nature breaks down the elements and reabsorbs it all. ...It's not like we are ADDING salt to the oceans that wasn't already there; nor is it like the water we TAKE OUT never ultimately goes back to those oceans. (It ALL does. Is water destroyed? No. It is eliminated from our bodies as waste, it is perspired from our bodies, it is returned in a polluted form from our industries and our sinks and our toilets and polluted streams. ...Even if we say, "Yes; but much of that water is TREAETED before returning to the Earth!", the waste itself is ultimately going back to the Earth -- in one form or another. It's not like it's going off-planet or something.)
@@MrJm323 I see where you would believe this but it is not quite correct. The salt content of the ocean is a very balanced thing. In very small amounts the effect you draw would be correct, with the exception that the pockets of brine dumped into the ocean would kill all plant and plankton and fish in the immediate area until it became equalized. Those losses of aquatic life would take decades to rebalance or recover.
In the quantities discussed to provide water for hundreds or thousands let alone, more, the ability to balance is not there. The rains you discuss are simply replacing the water lost through evaporation and eventual runoff over land through rivers and streams. The average 1st world human utilizes 75 gallons of water a day between showers, laundry waste treatment etc. the water through run off and use is not dumped back into the ocean and is specifically not dumped back where the brine is dumped. Much of that water is now full of chemicals and bodily waste that requires work to return clean water. It doesn’t immediately return to the clean state that it was in. The net result is increasing brine levels and increasing toxic levels within the oceans. Massive damage to the eco system that is designed to aid in keeping the water clean now creates a cascade of other toxic issues as a result.
Your thoughts of all trash going back to the earth it came from is ridiculously simple and not well thought out. We as humans create compounds through mixing the earths resources in ways that would never exist in nature. This mixing of compounds creates items like plastic that will NEVER return to what it was and be located where it was in the ecosystem. Even things like aluminum are hybrids not found in nature that the breakdown of doesn’t create the homeostatic environment you suggest. The complexity of the water issue alone fills volumes of research books, far more than we can cover here.
So how the project going so far
We started now a group in LinkedIn to discuss the progress of this
project and of other projects that work on electrodialysis applications:
www.linkedin.com/groups/8596116
brine4power: the world's largest battery
www.ewe-gasspeicher.de/en/home/b4p
What companies make these membranes and is there anything better and cheaper then nafion!
Can't this be used to power desalination plants?
I think yeah to power the machines
What is central electrode
When you say that only public funds can pay for a project like that, bells start ringing and warning lights go off everywhere. Ding ding ding......... money black hole. Zero return on investment. Corporate sponsors evaporate along with the water.
That’s a really good point. Your comment is two years old and this reverse edi did not take off and will most likely not reach scalability. Those public funds were used wisely to build cabins and secondary houses and pay for some outrageous salaries. Public funds are less monitored with every new administration coming along. Political black hole
when I become rich I will fully invest in this I swear
Is it commercial?
If desalination makes brine why not combine
A Perfect Storm at Diablo Canyon
by joey racano
There has always been a myriad of threats to the precious coast of California. Sewage, overfishing, oil drilling and recently, seismic testing, to name a few. But never before have so many of these threats developed into the perfect storm now bearing down on the central coast in San Luis Obispo County. At the eye of the storm is the push for large-scale seawater desalination. Like a furry sea otter with a cute little nose, desalination has a certain appeal- something they call water. Fresh, clear, pure, quenching, life- affirming water. With propaganda power like that, desalination of seawater is the obvious choice to anchor the team of onrushing coastal- and inland- destruction.
As a city council candidate in Huntington Beach, I remember the expensive, colorful full-gloss mailers sent out by the hundreds of thousands to every household, extolling the benefits of desalination and a big bright photograph of local firemen with a hose. But the company behind the push, Poseidon Resources LTD, were no friend of the citizens, or the coast. They had a similar scam running in Tampa Bay, and walked away leaving the city holding the bag with a desal plant that ran way over budget and never performed as advertised. They are still trying to build that plant in Huntington Beach to this very day, co-located with the AES Power Plant, a company who themselves walked away from a multi-billion-dollar plant in Europe a few years ago.
For a clearer picture, one must look at all the large-scale desalination projects proposed for the West Coast (one already having been built in Carlsbad). The desalination plants all have one thing in common- all are proposed to be built co-located or ‘piggy-backed’ on the existing seawater cooling intake pipes of coastal power plants! This is not an accident. As one mentor taught me, “This is not about water. It has never been about water. The entire ocean desalination scheme is all about the seawater intakes. They are incredibly destructive and are killing vast amounts of plankton. They are so infamous they are no longer permitted to be built and are being removed. But slap a desal unit piggy back on that intake pipe, and you have larvae destruction forever. Larvae means plankton, and plankton means every fish in the ocean. The process of saving your intake by co-locating a desal on it is known as ‘enshrinement.’ You see the danger.
Another drawback of desalination is the filters clog up a lot, because you have to shoot the salt water through a membrane at very high pressure. This takes a prohibitive amount of energy. And that brings us to the next part of this perfect storm of coastal destruction: the colossal offshore wind turbines. There have never been studies on the effect on the marine environment of vibrations that would go around the clock 365 days a year. There have been studies though, showing the giant assemblage of wind turbines frightens migrating birds to the point they take huge evasive action. Action so evasive that it keeps the birds from resting or feeding and will lead to their eventual extinction. Then there is the issue of being a navigational hazard to whales.
Then there is the issue of what becomes of these turbines, each over a thousand feet tall, when they reach the end of their design life. Like oil rigs-to-reefs, they will be dumped right where they stand and called reefs. Finally, these turbines would utilize the existing PG&E infrastructure, we all now know as ‘fire wires.’ Then the water will be used in court to get permission to develop every last bit of open land for many miles of coast and many miles inland.
The end result of desalination is concrete jungle from San Francisco to Maryland, with future citizens standing in long lines at the coast waiting their turn to gaze out over a dead and dying ocean.
But on the bright side, maybe by the time the Diablo Canyon nuclear waste is no longer dangerous, a half million years from now, the ocean will recover. Maybe.
Joey Racano, Director
Ocean Outfall Group
www.oceanoutfallgroup.com
All I got out of this book-length thesis was that wind power is totally insufficient to provide the enormous power needed for large scale de-salination plants ....and.... the seawater intakes of the currently-used cooling pipes (for existing power plants) would kill too many plankton if they were scaled up as seawater intake pipes for desalination plants.
Well, as to the first issue, it really would be a "scam" if someone were proposing that seawater desalination (on the scale that we would need to satisfy our water needs) could be powered by wind turbines. Unless one's state is sitting on vast reserves of oil (like in the Persian Gulf), the only practical energy source that could provide the "prohibitive amount of energy" to make this do-able would be nuclear energy.
As to the second issue -- that of killing plankton, new intakes would have to be developed to REDUCE the amount killed. I don't know if filters could help or the choice of what depth the intakes are positioned at, etc.. All you are telling us is that the specific plans of this one company are a problem.
@@MrJm323 Thank you for your excellent reply to my comment. As for wind energy, the amount of electricity supplied would depend on the wind and how many turbines, so your claim to the contrary is incorrect. As for the nukes, the length of half life of waste is so far into the future that it is reasonable to call its fate out of our hands. No way to predict what will become of anything in half a million years. As for scaling back the damage caused by traditional seawater cooling intakes through redesign, aren't we forgetting that desalinated water and the energy it takes to produce it is not at all needed except to accommodate the same out of control behavior (growth and its corresponding environmental degradation) that has already backed us into a corner? Joe Racano, Director, OOG
Desalination by products merger for sure, I wouldn't bother with water.
Can't you just take a river, and instead that it just flows into the ocean, it flows through those cells at the ocean?
Furthermore, as you need a slow flow rate you can slow it down by a normal water power plant before.
Dont you think that would cost alot more money than the project they have at the moment?
Let’s Discuss Desalination
Let’s discuss Desalination
Could it be right for our nation
Let’s explore both pro and con
Before you turn those sprinklers on
First let’s see how Desal works
How it’s owned by greedy jerks
Who built a plant and ran away
Leaving Tampa Bay to pay
Two faced liars call it salt
What they dump like it was malt
But brine is so bad for the sea
Concentrated impurity
Then the issue of intake
Suck fish in and set on bake
Plankton are our baby fish
Want dead ocean? Got your wish
Should we drink desalted water
Knowing sea life it will slaughter?
What would Desal set in motion?
It would sterilize the ocean!
Now it’s time to speak of cost
How much San Diego lost
Built a plant and spent a billion
To serve seven percent of over three million!
With 40 million in our state
Do the math, extrapolate
California needs 200 plants
That’s half a trillion- with no grants
Perhaps the greatest threat of all
Fukushima comes to call
Tritium can’t be removed
Ice cubes glow when thirst is soothed
Get yours at the Geiger counter
Desal water large amounter
Hate to throw you such a curve
Maybe we should just conserve
Joseph John Racano, Director
Ocean Outfall Group
Ah ha pitch for public funds??????????????
Yeah make the simple to complicated.
المعجزة القادمة فى حوض المتوسط هى توليد كهرباء من الملاحات - ولا إحنا دريانين بحاجة فى الدنيا كلها - خلينا فى العبط والكراهية والغباء وبس فى مصر وبقايا حطام وأنقاض خرائب العالم العربى - ما هما حلوين برضه
1 kW , wow , what a great investment of time and money, not to forget needing a supply of salt , and sea water , no waste except that the seawater get more salty .
It’s called a proof of concept dingus. They need to show potential investors that the technology works reliably and can be scaled up to industrial capacity. Combine this with a solar system and a desalination plant such as in Saudi Arabia and then you have the potential for near 100 renewable energy.
@Orching do you know what proof of concept is genius? It just demonstrates that whatever concept you’re discussing can be done and in whatever circumstances that needs to be considered at the time. Or in even more simpler terms a frickin BASELINE! Also, way to assume that they haven’t been working on it since this post has been up, it not like you are directly involved in the project.
Why not use this source of power in California?politics...$$$
I live in California. So I can attest. Most desalination plants that will be added in the future will be added by private companies.
Cities in America sadly don’t pull in enough money to generally maintain their maintainence.
So while this would cut costs and raise money through electricity, I would assume the hold up here would be the reformatting of existing systems.
California is really good at jumping in balls deep in the first mention of something new, only to have feilds of ineffecient solar panels(I say this because just a few years later and we have cheaper better panels that use a fraction of the material) but we already wasted the money on it.
I have plans to do some fun stuff. But it will take a lot of public support.
Is this how they are making the frogs gay?