@@edgararanda8722 Yes, like breaking in a newly rebuilt car engine there is a burn in technique that must be followed. If you don't burn in properly when the cables are new, they'll never be right.. As Edgar suggested you'll need to apply the proper cryogenic procedure to the cables and then start over. Your mileage may vary.
The issue with interconnect cable burn in isn't noticed very often because not very many people use interconnect cables in the northern hemisphere, then move them to the southern hemisphere, or vice versa. The cables become confused, and can't tell whether it's night or day. They suffer from sleep deprivation and don't know how to conduct themselves.
@@Flarptube I always flush my cables for or five times after carefully looping them anti-clockwise into the loo.Other than not attaching them wet, what could it hoit?
One of my favorite things is hearing the capacitors I change, well, change! If I ever got anything from PSAudio I would want one fresh off the line to hear the burn in myself. It's amazing how much they change.
@@Flarptube I hope you replaced them with film caps, and you wouldn't notice a change because there is very little voltage going to the speaker crossover capacitors. Replace the 1uF caps by any op amps if you have any in there and see (hear) what happens. Replace with film caps of course.
I think the "cable burn in theory" came from cable manufacturers and sellers. If you don't like the product, they tell you the burn the cable... This way they hope you will change your mind and keep the product at home. Thanks not a joke, I think it's true !
@@crossocean5663 in that case what the manufacturer does is marking the customer as special idiot and calculate the date until he needs to wait to get your money
I read stories by cable manufacturers that speaker cables need a 500 hr burn in. And I remember one guy commenting on the "difficult listening phase between hour 150 and hour 200". I also recall the story where a loudspeaker manufacturer had forgotten his cables upon setting up at a London Hifi show. So he rushed to the next hardware store and got a Black and Decker lawnmower cable, which he cut to fit his speakers. The show attendants loved the sound of that "attractive looking orange speaker cable". Taken from "The Emperor's New Clothes"
I own the “gadet from Densen, which is a De-Mag CD, which play a sweep tone, which then “clean up” the system, and it works! I do it every 2 week or so. Cheers from Denmark
how much money did you waste so that you need to hear the difference every few weeks to prevent going crazy - put your ears on a hot plate and you can smell how smart you are :-)
@@allansh828 It’s possible to “hear” an improvement that isn’t really there, and also for improvements to come and go from day to day, week to week. We’ve all experienced this, I’m sure; sitting down to listen and not being as satisfied as the day before...not hearing it the same way. That ain’t the cables’ fault. Btw, I wasn’t trying to imply there are never changes in cables - just that we’ll never know definitively if anyone is actually experiencing a cable sound change without double blind testing. Paul saying “I’ve heard it” or myself saying the same thing doesn’t hold water ultimately without proof. Having said that, I’d still like better cables all around just have the peace of mind that it might possibly be helping, and heck, I’ve seen double blind tests that did in fact show it’s possible to hear a difference with cables...but again, wouldn’t know for sure without testing.
In some alternative reality, cables need burn-in and the earth is flat. In the actual reality, we have science helping us on such topics to know facts from imagination.
Which all due respect, they tell the electrons orders to follow those arrows. Those cables say its AC current but my instructions are that you go that way. Wonder what would happen if you connect them the other way, umm.
@@IsmaelMartinezPR in order to prevent rogue electrons trying to travel the wrong way along your cable, it is recommended to fit a diode at the amplifiers speaker output 😉
One thing I've learned about hi fi is that there is a difference between 'hearing' a difference, and there being an actual, objective, measurable change. There is so much psychology at work.
There's an even bigger difference between what we can conceivably measure with today's methods and what we actually hear. Current understanding of neuro psychoacoustics is still very primitive, we simply don't understand our own brain very well in many areas.
@@divertiti I agree - it is a very interesting topic. It is good keep an open mind and investigate - without becoming a blind non-investigative fanboy of one or the other extreme ;o) - it is clear that psychology is turned into marketing by some to make a lot of money (the snake oil aspect) - but cables do differ (if even just a bit) - and on the science part we hardly know enough about the human ear, let alone the brain, and variation between people.
@Douglas Blake That's literally like asking why did engineers go through the trouble of building telescopes and space probes if we still don't know everything about the universe? The ever receding body of ignorance is precisely why scientists and engineers continue to push. Just because we can apply a machine we built with the limited understanding we currently have, doesn't mean that machine or method has the ability to capture everything and overcome the confines of our ignorance that limited its creation in the first place. This is the fundamental tenet of scientific discovery itself. The potent combination of arrogance and ignorance exhibited by the "mEaSuReMeNt" crowd is ironically antithesis to the entire process.
I have witnessed interconnect burn in. I purchased a Chord Company Clearway coax cable, the first 30 minutes was super bright and too crisp, after an hour burn in the cable balanced out very well
All great answers and done with some humor! Thanks for that because this can be a very long, drawn out conversation. But I still love talking about it after all these years lol. Folks I'll try to make this short but sweet myself. Burn-in is not warm-up; those are two different things. Interconnects and speaker cables do not require much burn-in time; only a few minutes will do. That step should be done by the manufacturer to avoid embarrassment. So any company who advises you to do burn-in is either asking you to perform their testing for them or misusing the term burn-in. Do not pay any company extra service fees for burn-in (or demagnetization). Just familiarize yourself with the applicable warranty coverage (and lemon laws) prior to purchase. All of the above applies for amps and speakers especially because they are more expensive than cables. However, warm-up time is YOUR responsibility. Only amps need to be warmed up because it induces a state of thermal stabilization inside the amp. If for some reason a significant enough DC bias has developed across the transformer in the amp's power supply section, this can be very simply eliminated by briefly powering down the amp then turning it back on.
Yes, those would be the ones that sell the expensive cables which tend to enhance the effect of cables on the system and bring up the importance of orientation and burn in time. And then of course the people who have shelled out good hard earned money for them who must save face. No one likes to look foolish. I can get away with saying this, because I'm a nobody, but the reason burn in time was invented was because after someone would spend a lot of money on a speaker cable, take it home and replace the coat hangers they were using before they would be livid because they would not hear any difference between the $10k cables and the coat hangers.. Once informed that the high end cables require break, or burn in time, they would calm down and over the course of weeks the listener would begin to accept that they hear a difference. No, it's not the power of suggestion created by the depleted bank account coupled with the fancy looks of the new cables.
The concept of something being "burned in" assumes that some physical property or property of the materials changes with time as they are used. Why should we assume that after these changes occur, it would always lead to BETTER sound? Why couldn't the physical change lead to sound that's worse? In audio equipment, we're talking about a lot of different materials with different properties. For instance, in the musical instrument world, it's generally acknowledged that violins get better with age, and become more resonant. OTOH, it's generally acknowledged that grand pianos get worse with age, and they are at their peak when they are brand new (it has to do with the tremendous tension on the crown of the soundboard which decreases over time, leading to an instrument with less sustain and volume).
Can you post up a video to where you can show a before and after graph or curve of some type that will show the differences of before and after burn-in? I am super curious as to whether or not this can be tested and actually see a difference on a scope, graph, audio analyzer, etc. If there are differences, my only issue is that the human ear probably can't hear this, and if not, then why do the "burn-in"? The only reason I would do a "burn-in" would be for quality control. Your thought's Paul?
they will never provide any type of evidence. None. its not their business model when they want their gear be synergistic with speaker cables costing $5K a meter.
I’d be interested too. If calibrated lab test gear cannot measure the microvolts of noise or microohms of impedance then there is no way the human ear can.
Ah, the “if it can’t be measured, it can’t be heard” fallacy. If you use a 9v battery and an LED all cables “measure” the same. The key is knowing what to measure, and how. All parameters of a wine can be measured with a gas chromatograph, so why bother with tasters? Yet all wineries employ them. There is so much about human senses that we still don’t understand.
@@VideoArchiveGuy OK, in that case, I’d like the results of a properly conducted blind test then. I’m not asking if a bedded in cable sounds *better* than a non bedded in cable, I’m asking if the difference can be measured - be that empirically (by humans) or more analytically (through test gear). Gas chromatographs of two different wines might not reveal which tastes better, but it should be able to differentiate them.
In the case of the M1200 mentioned in the video, which uses vacuum tubes, the tube characteristics change, which is why places that match tubes have to do a burn in for the measurements to even stabilize enough to match. That probably explains why that particular model takes so long to stabilize. There is a reason vacuum tubes are not famous for their consistency and stability. They are finicky things people put up with because they sound nice.
1:50 In that vein, I'm guessing the windings in Tesla's polyphase brushless motors also have to break in... And while your at it, don't forget to check the electron Encabulator as well. It has to be changed every 3MWh or 10,000 miles. Whichever occurs first.
We audiophiles call it nimble chop-chop sear in technique. This method will shorten the burn in time of interconnects from hours to seconds. So how is this done, first disconnect the speakers cable and reconnect your interconnect cable between the amp and the speaker, next set the volume on full once you see the cable smoking quickly lower the volume and let it smoke for few seconds
Aesthetix sells a degausser that you can plug the outputs of your tonearm cartridge into push a button, wait 10-15 seconds and voilà it’s done. Doesn’t have to be used often. I guess it’s use is based on the number of hours on the cartridge since the last degaussing.
I concur, as someone who installs and maintains medical linear accelerators for a living, new equipment always has a period of instability where frequent adjustment is needed to keep all the signals looking like they should. Some components will have have a similar period of instability after replacement...thyratrons, klystrons ion chambers, never cables.
hey paul show us a graph on a amp wires trans port preamp on how it measure s before and after burn in i dont think theres a diffents but if thete is i like to see this prove it i dare you thanks..
Absolutely, I can see that tube systems might have a difference in performance but I'd love to see a difference in a solid state system. I'd reckon that it's a poor design if it performs out of the box differently than it does after a period of heavy use, but I'm not an industry leader in the audio world
Always buy used interlinks. A they're cheaper, B no need to burn them in. But beware! if they were used for heavy metal and you listen to classical it will sound horrible!
I don't know - back in the 1990s, an "older" audio buddy of mine allowed her daughter to play punk rock music - i.e. Lunachicks, L7, etc - on his rig for about 1 to 2 hrs a day before arriving from work to check out what he referred to as "burn in bullshit" being talked about in hi fi mags at the time. Long story short, the jokes on him - his system really did became better sounding when playing his preferred Sinatra and Dean Martin records. Although he passed away back in 2018, he seriously considered listening to Metallica a few months before 9-11.😄
Brave soul! Really well answered. There is no question I can hear almost any capacitor burn in and even some resistors. I could imagine I can even hear a fresh solder joint burn in. But not sure I have ever heard burn in on an interconnect. I sure heard improvement with changing the RCA connectors. But no burn in.
Any views on the benefits of using these? Burn In CDs: Densen Audio Technologies - Densen DeMagic Sheffield Labs : XLO Test & Burn-in CD Sheffield Labs : MDMS : System Conditioning and Degaussing Stereophile's Special Burn-In Noise
Good to know that you are an honest person. I have hifi friends that believe that expensive cables make a difference. Even power cables. This is just nonsense.
He made a few videos where he states that power cables make a difference. In my experience, they don't. Speaker cables on the other hand, can sound quite different.
Is it safe to say that anything with capacitors in it, and anything with parts that physically create sound (cartridges, speakers, headphones) have a burn-in? I never had any issues hearing burn-in, sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's extreme (some phono cartridges really go from wooly to super shrill and pointy sounding during their burn in, even going in channel unbalance and whatnot, the Nagaoka MP200 was a crazy ride!) so it surprises me people are so quick to deny it, but is there any 'red line' as to which 'devices' have burn-in and which don't? Also, that intro; I like you, mr. McGowan :D.
Some people can hear it while others don't. Same as those whose ears can differentiate an F-sharp note from a B-flat minor chord, while others can't even sing a perfect middle-A (440 Hz) even if their lives depend on it.🤔
If you play music with a lot of deep bass too loudly, your wires will retain a directional charge. When this happens, store them in your car's boot just in case someone's battery needs a jump.
Hi Stephen as a subscriber of PS Audio myself and also from Drogheda, I hope one day we cross paths and have a good conversation, as you know there's not many of us here to share our passion with! Good luck with your system! 👍
And make sure the labels on vinyl records are demagnetized - only on Side B. And then apply a blast of air from a demagnetized air hose at no more than 30psi. Wait 23 minutes before playing.
When I bought my new speaker cables and hooked them up, I thought they sounded beautiful. I didn't notice the "directional arrow" on them when I installed them. Well one cable was correct and the other was backwards. Naturally, I spun the other cable in the right direction, and WOW!! Holy crap!! What a difference!! April fools! I couldn't tell ANY difference.
I don't know - but a mid 1990s era Australian alt rock band Deadstar album Milk seem to do a faster job in offering interconnect cable sound quality imorovements than Beck's Mellow Gold album.🤔
Some little insect creature or something else truly got burned in the other day. Something had got into my dual monoblock amplifier, just one of my pieces of amplification, when I saw a puff of smoke rising up and a smell that resembled something like an anticeptic electrical smell. The protection relays keeps chattering on off to the dozen every so often. The amp is still working on both channels powering my bass drivers, but the protection relays keep activating on on to the dozen every so often. Also not sure if there is an RF, EMR, EMI radiation setting the relays off, or something else. I thought my amp had blown the right channel at first, but no it hasn't because the amp still is still passing the signal to the bass drive units on both channels from my cd player to my mid and treble amplifiers, then to my dual monoblock amplifier for the bass drive units.
"Burn in" is just a marketing term for your brain getting used to the nature of the sound you're hearing. Same thing as a radio station playing the same song over and over until you think you like it.
Interesting, I just got some new XLRs, and I have two Little Bear XLR switches. I can A/B a new and old cable, both the same brand and length - see what I can discover.
XLR, so balanced line? Reverse the polarity of one on one end and connect them together at the other end. They should null out. Feed it to an amp. Anything you hear is difference information.
Ok - I did the test. I used headphones because on speakers I had to move out of the listening spot to switch. Chain: Source Yamaha CD S2100, cable (1) Sommer Cable Epilogue XLR (0,5m) - Little Bear XLR switch - then two Audioquest Red river XLRs, one burned in and one new (both 0,5m) - Little Bear XLR switch - Audioquest Red river XLR (0,5m) - Topping A90 amplifier - Focal clear headphone. During the testing I 'thought' that I could hear a tiny difference: the burned in cables sounded a tiny bit more laid back, less bright. But really, to be honest this could just as well be in my head. So IF there was any audible difference it was absolutely minimal, and I am almost certain that I would not be able to tell the cables apart in a blind A/B test.
Of course switch boxes have an impact - but very minimal - in fact Audio science review did measurements on it - and for cable comparison it doesn't matter because the both signal paths are affected the same. For a perfect as possible setup, yes I will take out any switches.
The easiest way is use a car battery. One end of cable on the positive the other end on the negative. This will burn in and creates polarisation of the cable. Give it a go , just hold on for 15 seconds, wait 30 seconds and repeat for 30 minutes.
Fun stuff -- like walking in circles inside a henhouse while banging on a tambourine. Someone will be sure to notice your new shoes. Didn't you book this for 4/1/21?
The answer is; barely on cables, very obviously on other components. He's not saying 'no' at all. He is even literally saying that one of his own components sounds 'not very good' before burn-in and 'great' after. And this is how the internet works, people hear and copy what they want others to believe.
It happens all the times when I buy a new computer. After a couple of weeks of burn in it goes a lot faster! It's the capacitors! Wifi connection is faster too, the air needs burn it. Too bad that whan I open the windows to change air, I have to start back again... Just joking, of course. Thanks for your work, I may be skeptical on some topic, but for sure I learned a lot.
I don't understand these questions. He is basically asking whether any of this makes a difference. Well, if it does, you can hear it, no need to ask Paul. If it supposedly does, but you cannot hear it, it doesn't matter to you. And if it doesn't, well, it just doesn't. Either way, there is no point in asking Paul whether YOU can hear something, or not...
Come on Paul everyone knows the moon is made of cheese! I read it on the Internet. LOL I can’t say I always agree with everything you say, But I do appreciate your candor. All the best my friend!
These kind of questions (differences in cable sound, burn in of cables/components, differences in DAC‘s/ CD-players...) probably will never die...because some people who are interested in Hifi are never going to learn or experience... What can you do?? -> Ignore those ignorants, Paul McGowan 🤷🏻
@@yantrussart6584 if you ask me....NO, I do know from own experience that there can be HUGE differences between CD players etc....ignorants are those guys who believe there „can‘t be differences because it’s digital anyway“ or „cables all sound the same“ - BS !!
If burn in is a thing, how can companies manufacture high fidelity equipment if it's sound is going to change after x amount of time once they've sold it? Look at it another way, manufacturers of scientific equipment like MRI scanners or super accurate atomic clocks, are they saying yeah, the scan will be better once it's burnt in or the atomic clock will be more accurate once the cables/components are burnt in? Cable burn in sounds like snake oil. Lets consider what happens during the time period known by some as 'burn in'. You're getting used to the sound of your new system. I changed my speakers from KEF LS50's to ATC SCM40's and it took me some weeks to get 'used' to the change. They sound very different, you could never confuse one with the other but I like the way both sound. The ATC just seems to cope better with rock music at higher volumes than the KEF's did.
The only process I can imagine that could give a sense of 'burn in' on cables is changes in any oxidised layer that may exist on the contacts. When first connected, any oxide coating will be disturbed/removed, which would theoretically impact upon the impedance of the system, but only in an exceptionally negligible way. Over the course of time, the oxide will begin to return, but again any effect would be tiny.
Cables make a difference, theres no doubt about it! Honestly though I have a hard time understanding how a set of cables can command prices into the thousands however. When I get to building a DIY amp in coming months, I think ill also opt into giving DIY cable making a shot as well. If I can make a CAT5/6 ethernet cable, im SURE I can handle some speaker wire : D
That's certainly true about cable prices, but the important thing to remember is you're in control. With places like The Cable Company that will send you a box full of demo cables, you can try whatever you want risk free. If you don't see the value, send them back and apply the 5% to some DIY materials. Sometimes I think people feel pressured in some way to make certain purchases.
@@solarfall2728 Yes theres HEAVY psychology going down in audio marketing and with audio consumers. They prey on our internal struggles & confidence in whether or not our systems sound good to us. Another reason to LOVE PS Audio, theres no pressure into buying anyhting and in some cases Paul even advises against buying a piece of his gear!
ah cables.... well, to that viewer, give it a shot... if it feels to you that it sounds better then your win. Same for direction, plug them one way, listen to them, take notes. Then reverse plug them, and listen again, if it feels to you that one way sounds better, there you go. Do it that way. It's your cables, your system so use it the way you feel it brings you the best sound and you'll be happy. On speaker cables, I'm really split because when you open a speaker and see what kind of thin basic cables they use in there (most of the times, I'm sure some manufacturers use very high quality cables inside their speakers), it makes you wonder what was the point of spending a ton on a cable from the amp to the speaker if once inside the speaker the same quality is not there... Yet the speakers sound very good.. Again no matter what, what matters is that you're happy with the sound you get from your system.
Im going to say, burn in is not a thing in interconnects. I have found that cables that transmit the best impulse response / frequency response sound the best. Even in a blind test. Though with speaker cables there are some factors i have not been able to measure but can hear, not break in though... basically, more research is needed
My dealer can’t hear any different on rca and balanced...but I Can, on my system!! -it’s not like night and day but it’s there... Still trying to burn my neighbor’s in, after 10years...😳😂🤣
Some retailers us “Burn-in” as a general deflection and delay tactic to get a customer to continue using equipment and defer returning for a refund - especially for highly expensive cables and interconnects - hence the prevalence of this meme. Not PS Audio who have a generous return policy. (Edited to better reflect meaning)
That is simply not true and it's illogical. Take for example our return policy. When we send you a product we let you know it benefits greatly from burn in of at least 1 week of constant use. However, you have 4 weeks in which to decide to keep it or return it (and if you call and ask for more we're happy to accommodate).
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Sorry I wasn’t clear at all. I didn’t mean to pick on you guys in particular at all. Love you guys and your excellent products which are good value especially when considering how bespoke and seriously engineered PS Audio stuff is. I was just generalizing overall about the prevalence of “burn-in” used in hi-fi to all things including speaker cables, interconnects and speakers etc. For sure caps change over time and obviously so do tubes and voice coils bake and spiders loosen up and ferro fluid dries out and foam rots - however depending on the design, the chosen components and QC - the effect can be audible or barely audible or not at all after a pretty short time period. I have recapped old equipment myself and the difference was audible - so over a time frame of years the difference often becomes absolutely audible. TVs get duller over time too - so component aging and change related to temperature (higher temperatures make things age faster) are real. Are designs that go from terrible sounding to great in a period of a few days a good design though? How much is simply listener adjustment/adaptation to a new slightly different sound?
@@jeremyhughes6485 Thanks, Jeremy. I agree it drives me nuts because, as an engineer, I cannot explain it to my satisfaction, yet as a listener I cannot deny its existence. Tough sitaution.
Paul says he has heard burn-in on speaker cables. He has not. He has imagined it so I suppose it was real for him. Equipment makers burn-in not because of a belief that the sound improves, but because electronics failure tends to happen in the first few hours an so the makers burn-in period can reduce the number of returns of faulty goods. Audio cables are not directional. They carry alternating current. Is a cable was directional it would be right for one half of a cycle but wrong for the other half of the cycle.
Здравейте! Търся звук, който да прегаря кабелите и аудиосистемата като цяло, по-бързо от обикновения. Има такава машина, която работи със специфични честоти, но не знам дали просто някой не е записал звука ѝ и просто да го изтегля.
Thing is, the audio world could be really simple. If the music really was the priority the need for endless boxes, tweaks of all kinds and ridiculous disproportionate spending would all fade into obscurity. Interestingly, none of the recording studios I've ever worked in considered this kind of unscientific rubbish. They worry about important things like microphone placement.
lol ,,, really? Yep I can see how it may be controversial . Soon we will all be heading back to the little tin foil stick on arrows that '' help'' with cable performance.
Just bought a small box for usb to SP/dif conversion. Only digital. I was completely bumped out becouse it sounded horible. 5 days later i was in heaven. Burn in is real
In a transmission line (interconnect cable), there is a positive travelling electromagnetic wave, always propagating from source to load (let's neglect the reflected wave), while the magnetic field and electric field vectors (which are perpendicular to each other and to the direction of wave propagation) constantly change their directions (audio signal is AC). Can any physicist explain how a cable insulation could be sensitive to the direction of electromagnetic wave propagation...? (Keep in mind the el. and mag. vectors constantly change their directions...)
You say you don't hear much of a difference with interconnect cables. I dare you to listen to them for a week or so and then turn them around. Does it sound the same ? I bet not. But they will break in again the other direction unless they were designed to be one direction.
Cable burn in can be accomplished in a standard kitchen oven set to 400 degrees F for 20 minutes. Flip the cable halfway through. No - wait a minute, that's the heating instructions for my tater tots! Please people - there are far more bigger things to worry about in this world!
Hi Paul, I like your comment about the internet. That one can come up with everything and one will get backup from someone. This is so true. I love your short videos and your opinions on contrary things. Keep on going :-) BTW: I love your Audiophile guide. I'm still in setting up my Monitor Audio Gold 200s with your help. Thanks!
Ohhh brother! burn in for X product only matters for his product. Burn in should only matter if you are trying to eliminate any chance of failed component or design. Pretty much capacitors, silicon devices and items that really heat up, change after a long time due to use and environment. Copper, Iron, gold, silver... behaves the same 1second and 1year later.
In recent times I've had to admit to myself, reluctantly actually, that interconnect has less affect than speaker and power cables - - I'm not at all saying there isn't differences because there most assuredly are, just saying that in my own experience, there's more bang for the buck with speaker and power cables - - in the end, ya need 'em all - - and yes, I've run everything in my own personal history with stereo from zip cord on up - so I'm speaking from direct experience, and yes, currently I'm running all reference cables, start to finish, all the same brand, stupid money, the whole deal - - my personal advice, if one can shell out the money, it's the way to go and of course, yes, there's plenty of diminishing returns but I personally couldn't go back - no matter to me if other audiophiles don't think it matters, I'm absolutely fine with that, so no, I don't want to debate or banter - - I'll note that my current reference speakers were broken in using the original monster cable which sounds pretty damn good for not a lot of money and those are certainly a step up from zip cord - so I know from experience what reference cables can do and I mostly agree with Paul - although I do think run time matters, in my own personal experience, it matters to a lesser degree with interconnect.
Interesting. I have had the polar opposite experience. I have heard smaller but distinctly noticeable and worthwhile improvements from upgrading power cord and speaker cables, but upgrading the interconnects was a huge, night and day difference for me. I should also add that I have never used very expensive cables. I have used Monster Cable and some low-end Audioquest cables, as well as Hosa power cord. I've mostly used cables that were under a hundred dollars. YMMV
These stories are valuable. But one thing with expensive cables is that, unlike most other gear, they last a lifetime - so if you buy them, better buy them asap.
@@alphaniner3770 That's a good point, actually. No wear and tear on cables. Once you find or make a good set, you're done. Provided you keep corrosion and tarnish at bay, they should last for a lifetime as you say.
@Jingle Nuts Yes, actually. That's on the list as one of my next projects. However, I plan to use DIY wire for that. Edit: I'm not expecting a huge improvement. However, pennies add up. Besides, the wires in those speakers look like they're aluminum (although it could be that they've just been 'tinned' on the ends), so changing to copper is gonna be an upgrade, I figure.
@Jingle Nuts Hi Jingle - not sure you're asking me, but if so, my answer is a resounding YES! Not only, like a lot of us, did I mess quite a bit with my original diy speakers back in the late 70's, but I also, over time, highly modified my set of Magnepan IIIa's - they would be somewhat comparable to today's 3.7i's - anyway, I not only upgraded the passive crossover and built everything with extremely short signal paths, but yeah, I DID change out all of the wiring and dumped the fuses too - all EXCEPT for one key wire, and that's already a high end "liltz" type wire - it's the one that runs to the top of the ribbon tweeter from the base of the speaker - - I'm not kidding Jingle - the detail (and I don't mean "brightness") was such that on a particular recording I could hear the "walls" of the recording studio - that same record, and ya, my ears suck now, but that same record on my current reference system is not as revealing. Gawd, that was a great system, want more? I hard wired absolutely everything, even, believe it or not, after drilling out the headshell and installing from the "mod squad", litz tonearm wire - the cartridge pins too - only the preamp had connectors - anyone that thinks ya can't hear that stuff has never had that experience - this included 10gauge from my breaker box directly to my power amp, no outlet - straight to the amp, and the speaker cable, direct from the board of the amp to the modified crossovers - I got tired of messing with (at the time it was the way to go), but messing with "Cramolin" connector cleaner/conditioner. These mods I did over time, not like in a week or something. Wish we had digital cameras back then cause I'd have pictures - but yeah, I've still got those maggies although I'm not running them and the turntable I mentioned I still have in my system along with my newer reference table (and yes, the pins are still hard wired) - not kidding, it still plays a record really well, if I'm listening to vinyl, I usually que up both tables.
Sound travelling through the air in waves of pressure changes, and our ability to be able to perceive 0db SPL really is a miracle if we think about it. The world is a wonderful place and we're wonderfully made to be able to enjoy it all, the sounds, the sights, the smells. Nothing is more subjective than sounds, and our perceptions of it. We can also shift our focus (attention) from one sound to another that are happening simultaneously which complicates it even more thus making it more subjective. There are two kinds of physics going on for the audiophile. There is the electrical aspect of recording and sound reproduction, and then there is the air pressure aspect. One is much more quantifiable than the other. A study of the physics of electricity, electrical engineering demonstrates that although complex to a degree, it's a measurable quantity. We know about Impedance in AC (alternating current or sound signals). We understand that there are basically three components, resistance (non reactive), capacitance, and inductance and how those affect the signals all the way through the chain of devices including the speakers. We also understand what happens after the speaker, but it's a lot more subjective, and the science is not as quantifiable.. The room, the speaker design, the placement, our mood, our focus, density of the air, vibrations from other sources all play into what we believe we're hearing. We are very much subject to the placebo effect, confirmation bias, power of suggestion from another person which may merely just call our attention to something we might not have paid attention to previously. I would propose something some professional audiophiles have stated and that is that 'we' need time to adjust to the sound of a rig, to changes we make, so rather than the equipment require break-in or burn-in time, it's probably more like 'us' breaking in to the way the new equipment sounds. As an electrical engineer, I assure you that a wire is a wire is a wire is a wire. They don't change over time, and even if it were possible for the wire to change, no one would perceive the change. Same with wire direction other than if you want a shield on your wire to help with not picking up 60Hz or other freq noise, you'll want to attach the side of the cable that has the shield lead connected with the ground to the amp. Good shielding generally means only connecting the shield to ground at one end thus preventing ground loops ( a ground loop is where a shield or ground creates a completed circuit that a signal can be inductively coupled to and actually produce a current flowing on the ground. This is similar to how a transformer works, think of the ground loop as the secondary coil on a transformer.
All snake oil. Only thing that has any significant impact on reproduction of sound are the quality of speakers, how clear is the recording and how close is that recording to the actual performance. Rest is all hyperbole.
I'm still burning in cables from the 1980's. Can't wait to hear them.
You should have started earlier, then you could already listen to them!
Hahaha.
They are toast passed the proper burn-in techniques!! Now you have to use the cryogenic procedure to reset to the original specs!! 😎
@@edgararanda8722 Yes, like breaking in a newly rebuilt car engine there is a burn in technique that must be followed. If you don't burn in properly when the cables are new, they'll never be right.. As Edgar suggested you'll need to apply the proper cryogenic procedure to the cables and then start over. Your mileage may vary.
I'm in the subway right now and I laughed out loud reading your comment
The issue with interconnect cable burn in isn't noticed very often because not very many people use interconnect cables in the northern hemisphere, then move them to the southern hemisphere, or vice versa. The cables become confused, and can't tell whether it's night or day. They suffer from sleep deprivation and don't know how to conduct themselves.
Great comment. Just make sure it does not end on one of those cable magic websites as an explanation...
Connect them in reverse and see if the electric bill goes lower.
@@IsmaelMartinezPR Not in Australia; the power company is charging people for power that their solar systems are putting back into the grid.
@@Flarptube the irony of it all it actually sounds like what some of these blinded gear enthusiasts say. cheers.
@@Flarptube I always flush my cables for or five times after carefully looping them anti-clockwise into the loo.Other than not attaching them wet, what could it hoit?
One of my favorite things is hearing the capacitors I change, well, change! If I ever got anything from PSAudio I would want one fresh off the line to hear the burn in myself. It's amazing how much they change.
@@Flarptube I hope you replaced them with film caps, and you wouldn't notice a change because there is very little voltage going to the speaker crossover capacitors. Replace the 1uF caps by any op amps if you have any in there and see (hear) what happens. Replace with film caps of course.
@@FlarptubeYa I know a thing or two about capacitors, haha.
@@Flarptube Just curious, what uF where the 2 caps you used that equal 13uF? I can't wait the here how simple that is.
@@ranbymonkeys2384 E24 series, 6.8µF + 6.2 µF = 13 µF
or E12 series, 4.7µf + 8.2µF = 12.9µF which is < 1% off...way better than a 13 µF +/- 5%
I think the "cable burn in theory" came from cable manufacturers and sellers. If you don't like the product, they tell you the burn the cable... This way they hope you will change your mind and keep the product at home.
Thanks not a joke, I think it's true !
Also so the buyer runs past the return policy
Well. Some manufacturers offer burn in services.
@@crossocean5663 $$$$
Write it down while saying it a hundred times, then you'll begin to believe it. Just ask OJ Simpson.
@@crossocean5663 in that case what the manufacturer does is marking the customer as special idiot and calculate the date until he needs to wait to get your money
I read stories by cable manufacturers that speaker cables need a 500 hr burn in. And I remember one guy commenting on the "difficult listening phase between hour 150 and hour 200".
I also recall the story where a loudspeaker manufacturer had forgotten his cables upon setting up at a London Hifi show. So he rushed to the next hardware store and got a Black and Decker lawnmower cable, which he cut to fit his speakers. The show attendants loved the sound of that "attractive looking orange speaker cable".
Taken from "The Emperor's New Clothes"
500 hours is a good figure.
Certainly this is true for electronics.
@@VideoArchiveGuy Have fun :).
@Douglas Blake That's not at all true. In fact if you are working with a retailer, cables you borrow to demo at home will have already been broken in.
@@audioreviews I do, thanks.
Cable manufacturers claiming their cables need burn-in are clearly in the bucket of snake oil companies. Stay away from such ignorant company.
Don't forget to burn the stereo-rack too😂
I loved degaussing my pc monitor, ah the 90s were good.
I own the “gadet from Densen, which is a De-Mag CD, which play a sweep tone, which then “clean up” the system, and it works! I do it every 2 week or so. Cheers from Denmark
how much money did you waste so that you need to hear the difference every few weeks to prevent going crazy - put your ears on a hot plate and you can smell how smart you are :-)
Oh Jesus......
Isotek burn in CD works as well
The problem is: when we say “I’ve heard it”, what we’re actually (literally) saying is “I think I heard it”.
not true. Most audiophiles would happily return the stuff they buy if they can’t definitely hear improvement to the sound.
@@allansh828 It’s possible to “hear” an improvement that isn’t really there, and also for improvements to come and go from day to day, week to week. We’ve all experienced this, I’m sure; sitting down to listen and not being as satisfied as the day before...not hearing it the same way. That ain’t the cables’ fault. Btw, I wasn’t trying to imply there are never changes in cables - just that we’ll never know definitively if anyone is actually experiencing a cable sound change without double blind testing. Paul saying “I’ve heard it” or myself saying the same thing doesn’t hold water ultimately without proof. Having said that, I’d still like better cables all around just have the peace of mind that it might possibly be helping, and heck, I’ve seen double blind tests that did in fact show it’s possible to hear a difference with cables...but again, wouldn’t know for sure without testing.
*testing each time a claim is made
In some alternative reality, cables need burn-in and the earth is flat. In the actual reality, we have science helping us on such topics to know facts from imagination.
Yeah, I'm 30 years in business and last year I saw those speaker and interlink cables with arrows 😆
Thank you for sharing your great wisdom.
Which all due respect, they tell the electrons orders to follow those arrows. Those cables say its AC current but my instructions are that you go that way. Wonder what would happen if you connect them the other way, umm.
@@IsmaelMartinezPR in order to prevent rogue electrons trying to travel the wrong way along your cable, it is recommended to fit a diode at the amplifiers speaker output 😉
@@rowgli 😂
@@rowgli Adding a diode on each side traps the signal in the speaker coil, thus providing more output. HAHAHAHA!
@@rowgli The same diode Tesla uses?
One thing I've learned about hi fi is that there is a difference between 'hearing' a difference, and there being an actual, objective, measurable change. There is so much psychology at work.
There's an even bigger difference between what we can conceivably measure with today's methods and what we actually hear. Current understanding of neuro psychoacoustics is still very primitive, we simply don't understand our own brain very well in many areas.
@@divertiti I agree - it is a very interesting topic. It is good keep an open mind and investigate - without becoming a blind non-investigative fanboy of one or the other extreme ;o)
- it is clear that psychology is turned into marketing by some to make a lot of money (the snake oil aspect) - but cables do differ (if even just a bit) - and on the science part we hardly know enough about the human ear, let alone the brain, and variation between people.
@@divertiti Mostly, the South, as the in-breeding is rampant, so their brains are a bigger challenge.
...measurable... lol ...
@Douglas Blake That's literally like asking why did engineers go through the trouble of building telescopes and space probes if we still don't know everything about the universe? The ever receding body of ignorance is precisely why scientists and engineers continue to push. Just because we can apply a machine we built with the limited understanding we currently have, doesn't mean that machine or method has the ability to capture everything and overcome the confines of our ignorance that limited its creation in the first place. This is the fundamental tenet of scientific discovery itself. The potent combination of arrogance and ignorance exhibited by the "mEaSuReMeNt" crowd is ironically antithesis to the entire process.
I have witnessed interconnect burn in. I purchased a Chord Company Clearway coax cable, the first 30 minutes was super bright and too crisp, after an hour burn in the cable balanced out very well
All great answers and done with some humor! Thanks for that because this can be a very long, drawn out conversation. But I still love talking about it after all these years lol. Folks I'll try to make this short but sweet myself. Burn-in is not warm-up; those are two different things. Interconnects and speaker cables do not require much burn-in time; only a few minutes will do. That step should be done by the manufacturer to avoid embarrassment. So any company who advises you to do burn-in is either asking you to perform their testing for them or misusing the term burn-in. Do not pay any company extra service fees for burn-in (or demagnetization). Just familiarize yourself with the applicable warranty coverage (and lemon laws) prior to purchase. All of the above applies for amps and speakers especially because they are more expensive than cables. However, warm-up time is YOUR responsibility. Only amps need to be warmed up because it induces a state of thermal stabilization inside the amp. If for some reason a significant enough DC bias has developed across the transformer in the amp's power supply section, this can be very simply eliminated by briefly powering down the amp then turning it back on.
Pitchforks !! Made me chuckle! I can just see a gang of Disgruntled audiophiles outside of Paul's office with pitchforks, and torches ! 🤣
Yes, those would be the ones that sell the expensive cables which tend to enhance the effect of cables on the system and bring up the importance of orientation and burn in time. And then of course the people who have shelled out good hard earned money for them who must save face. No one likes to look foolish.
I can get away with saying this, because I'm a nobody, but the reason burn in time was invented was because after someone would spend a lot of money on a speaker cable, take it home and replace the coat hangers they were using before they would be livid because they would not hear any difference between the $10k cables and the coat hangers.. Once informed that the high end cables require break, or burn in time, they would calm down and over the course of weeks the listener would begin to accept that they hear a difference. No, it's not the power of suggestion created by the depleted bank account coupled with the fancy looks of the new cables.
I've had a cable burn out before, sorta. It definitely started sounding worse, turns out the jacket material had deteriorated.
How does one develop an audio product when break-in is required?
it just happens with capacitors.
They break it in, then re-test and certify so the device works as designed and expected.
@@jamesplotkin4674 That has to take a very long time as different components are tried.
The same way you develop a product which changes the sound in ways that can't be measured.
The concept of something being "burned in" assumes that some physical property or property of the materials changes with time as they are used. Why should we assume that after these changes occur, it would always lead to BETTER sound? Why couldn't the physical change lead to sound that's worse? In audio equipment, we're talking about a lot of different materials with different properties.
For instance, in the musical instrument world, it's generally acknowledged that violins get better with age, and become more resonant. OTOH, it's generally acknowledged that grand pianos get worse with age, and they are at their peak when they are brand new (it has to do with the tremendous tension on the crown of the soundboard which decreases over time, leading to an instrument with less sustain and volume).
Thank You Paul for all you do 🙂
My pleasure. Thanks for reaching out.
I like the chill way you approached the topic, it reminds me of that Chill Audiophiles group on FB.
I believe in Brain Burn in more. ;)
Driver break in for headphones is very real. Cables? Not so much. That is just my experience though.
I fear some audiophiles have no brain to burn in given how they waste time and money for things where physics starts to giggle
Correct.
Burn-in periods conveniently reduce the return period. Convenient for the seller who recommends it...
Can you post up a video to where you can show a before and after graph or curve of some type that will show the differences of before and after burn-in? I am super curious as to whether or not this can be tested and actually see a difference on a scope, graph, audio analyzer, etc. If there are differences, my only issue is that the human ear probably can't hear this, and if not, then why do the "burn-in"? The only reason I would do a "burn-in" would be for quality control. Your thought's Paul?
they will never provide any type of evidence. None. its not their business model when they want their gear be synergistic with speaker cables costing $5K a meter.
I’d be interested too. If calibrated lab test gear cannot measure the microvolts of noise or microohms of impedance then there is no way the human ear can.
Ah, the “if it can’t be measured, it can’t be heard” fallacy.
If you use a 9v battery and an LED all cables “measure” the same.
The key is knowing what to measure, and how.
All parameters of a wine can be measured with a gas chromatograph, so why bother with tasters?
Yet all wineries employ them.
There is so much about human senses that we still don’t understand.
@@VideoArchiveGuy OK, in that case, I’d like the results of a properly conducted blind test then.
I’m not asking if a bedded in cable sounds *better* than a non bedded in cable, I’m asking if the difference can be measured - be that empirically (by humans) or more analytically (through test gear). Gas chromatographs of two different wines might not reveal which tastes better, but it should be able to differentiate them.
In the case of the M1200 mentioned in the video, which uses vacuum tubes, the tube characteristics change, which is why places that match tubes have to do a burn in for the measurements to even stabilize enough to match. That probably explains why that particular model takes so long to stabilize. There is a reason vacuum tubes are not famous for their consistency and stability. They are finicky things people put up with because they sound nice.
1:50 In that vein, I'm guessing the windings in Tesla's polyphase brushless motors also have to break in... And while your at it, don't forget to check the electron Encabulator
as well. It has to be changed every 3MWh or 10,000 miles. Whichever occurs first.
Best comment!
We audiophiles call it nimble chop-chop sear in technique. This method will shorten the burn in time of interconnects from hours to seconds. So how is this done, first disconnect the speakers cable and reconnect your interconnect cable between the amp and the speaker, next set the volume on full once you see the cable smoking quickly lower the volume and let it smoke for few seconds
seriously? again this is what keeps people up at night.... embarrassed to call myself an Audiophile due to these questions... JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC
Aesthetix sells a degausser that you can plug the outputs of your tonearm cartridge into push a button, wait 10-15 seconds and voilà it’s done. Doesn’t have to be used often. I guess it’s use is based on the number of hours on the cartridge since the last degaussing.
I would think that getting rid of static charge buildup is far more important.
I thought old school VGA monitors were the only thing needing degaussing... lol
@@krismichalsky All colour CRT's need it.
I concur, as someone who installs and maintains medical linear accelerators for a living, new equipment always has a period of instability where frequent adjustment is needed to keep all the signals looking like they should. Some components will have have a similar period of instability after replacement...thyratrons, klystrons ion chambers, never cables.
hey paul show us a graph on a amp wires trans port preamp on how it measure s before and after burn in i dont think theres a diffents but if thete is i like to see this
prove it i dare you thanks..
Absolutely, I can see that tube systems might have a difference in performance but I'd love to see a difference in a solid state system. I'd reckon that it's a poor design if it performs out of the box differently than it does after a period of heavy use, but I'm not an industry leader in the audio world
Always buy used interlinks. A they're cheaper, B no need to burn them in. But beware! if they were used for heavy metal and you listen to classical it will sound horrible!
Yes, heavy metal utterly destroys any cable, especially these cast iron chain cables
I don't know - back in the 1990s, an "older" audio buddy of mine allowed her daughter to play punk rock music - i.e. Lunachicks, L7, etc - on his rig for about 1 to 2 hrs a day before arriving from work to check out what he referred to as "burn in bullshit" being talked about in hi fi mags at the time. Long story short, the jokes on him - his system really did became better sounding when playing his preferred Sinatra and Dean Martin records. Although he passed away back in 2018, he seriously considered listening to Metallica a few months before 9-11.😄
Hilariious D1N02 !!
Deep Purple playing Beethoven and and Mozart proves you wrong :-)
What a dumb trolling comment
Brave soul! Really well answered.
There is no question I can hear almost any capacitor burn in and even some resistors. I could imagine I can even hear a fresh solder joint burn in. But not sure I have ever heard burn in on an interconnect. I sure heard improvement with changing the RCA connectors. But no burn in.
Interconnect cables have a dialectric issue just like capacitors.
Paul, that's why people ask you. They want to hear YOUR opinion. Thanks!
The Irish are known for their sense of humour. I’m glad you didn’t fall for it. Was it sent on 1st April by any chance?
Cables do experience a break-in period... they become softer and more flexible the more you play around with your system.
Just like sneakers. haha Thanks for saying that bit of truth.
Any views on the benefits of using these?
Burn In CDs:
Densen Audio Technologies - Densen DeMagic
Sheffield Labs : XLO Test & Burn-in CD
Sheffield Labs : MDMS : System Conditioning and Degaussing
Stereophile's Special Burn-In Noise
Good to know that you are an honest person. I have hifi friends that believe that expensive cables make a difference. Even power cables. This is just nonsense.
He made a few videos where he states that power cables make a difference. In my experience, they don't. Speaker cables on the other hand, can sound quite different.
Is it safe to say that anything with capacitors in it, and anything with parts that physically create sound (cartridges, speakers, headphones) have a burn-in?
I never had any issues hearing burn-in, sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's extreme (some phono cartridges really go from wooly to super shrill and pointy sounding during their burn in, even going in channel unbalance and whatnot, the Nagaoka MP200 was a crazy ride!) so it surprises me people are so quick to deny it, but is there any 'red line' as to which 'devices' have burn-in and which don't?
Also, that intro; I like you, mr. McGowan :D.
Demagnetization of the system is very real and can make a big improvement.
Some people can hear it while others don't. Same as those whose ears can differentiate an F-sharp note from a B-flat minor chord, while others can't even sing a perfect middle-A (440 Hz) even if their lives depend on it.🤔
@Douglas Blake Try it and you'll hear, if you're not deaf like those who says that all cables sounds the same.
If you play music with a lot of deep bass too loudly, your wires will retain a directional charge. When this happens, store them in your car's boot just in case someone's battery needs a jump.
Not valid for Teslas.
Thanks Paul, it’s the music!
Power cables and speaker cables perhaps, due to the higher loads compared to interconnects.
The moon phases do have an effect on interconnects. That's why it's imperative to wrap your roof in tinfoil.
Oh, really? That's interesting. What happens, and how long does it take? Thanks.
Hi Stephen as a subscriber of PS Audio myself and also from Drogheda, I hope one day we cross paths and have a good conversation, as you know there's not many of us here to share our passion with!
Good luck with your system! 👍
I am 100% agree to your explanation based on analoq circuit theory.
The audiodharma 2.5 pro cable cooker burns in interconnects, I use to own one & it really works, sadly I had to sell because I went skint.
And make sure the labels on vinyl records are demagnetized - only on Side B. And then apply a blast of air from a demagnetized air hose at no more than 30psi. Wait 23 minutes before playing.
When I bought my new speaker cables and hooked them up, I thought they sounded beautiful. I didn't notice the "directional arrow" on them when I installed them. Well one cable was correct and the other was backwards. Naturally, I spun the other cable in the right direction, and WOW!! Holy crap!! What a difference!!
April fools! I couldn't tell ANY difference.
them molecules!!
- good one!
I don't know - but a mid 1990s era Australian alt rock band Deadstar album Milk seem to do a faster job in offering interconnect cable sound quality imorovements than Beck's Mellow Gold album.🤔
@Laurentz, Deadstar front-person Caroline Kennedy is just perfect for burning in 1990s era Monster interconnects.
Speakers, transistors, tubes and capacitors all take time to get to know themselves and their neighbors and make good sound. Wires... not so much ;-)
PS (post script, not PSA) Install a ferrite core on all the wires at 6-inch intervals, especially tone arm wires.
Some little insect creature or something else truly got burned in the other day. Something had got into my dual monoblock amplifier, just one of my pieces of amplification, when I saw a puff of smoke rising up and a smell that resembled something like an anticeptic electrical smell. The protection relays keeps chattering on off to the dozen every so often. The amp is still working on both channels powering my bass drivers, but the protection relays keep activating on on to the dozen every so often. Also not sure if there is an RF, EMR, EMI radiation setting the relays off, or something else. I thought my amp had blown the right channel at first, but no it hasn't because the amp still is still passing the signal to the bass drive units on both channels from my cd player to my mid and treble amplifiers, then to my dual monoblock amplifier for the bass drive units.
"Burn in" is just a marketing term for your brain getting used to the nature of the sound you're hearing. Same thing as a radio station playing the same song over and over until you think you like it.
Interesting, I just got some new XLRs, and I have two Little Bear XLR switches. I can A/B a new and old cable, both the same brand and length - see what I can discover.
Please do my good sir.
XLR, so balanced line? Reverse the polarity of one on one end and connect them together at the other end. They should null out. Feed it to an amp. Anything you hear is difference information.
Ok - I did the test. I used headphones because on speakers I had to move out of the listening spot to switch. Chain: Source Yamaha CD S2100, cable (1) Sommer Cable Epilogue XLR (0,5m) - Little Bear XLR switch - then two Audioquest Red river XLRs, one burned in and one new (both 0,5m) - Little Bear XLR switch - Audioquest Red river XLR (0,5m) - Topping A90 amplifier - Focal clear headphone.
During the testing I 'thought' that I could hear a tiny difference: the burned in cables sounded a tiny bit more laid back, less bright. But really, to be honest this could just as well be in my head. So IF there was any audible difference it was absolutely minimal, and I am almost certain that I would not be able to tell the cables apart in a blind A/B test.
Don’t use a switch box, it has a sound of its own it imparts.
Of course switch boxes have an impact - but very minimal - in fact Audio science review did measurements on it - and for cable comparison it doesn't matter because the both signal paths are affected the same. For a perfect as possible setup, yes I will take out any switches.
The easiest way is use a car battery. One end of cable on the positive the other end on the negative. This will burn in and creates polarisation of the cable.
Give it a go , just hold on for 15 seconds, wait 30 seconds and repeat for 30 minutes.
Fun stuff -- like walking in circles inside a henhouse while banging on a tambourine. Someone will be sure to notice your new shoes. Didn't you book this for 4/1/21?
Buy XLR, you can use them only in one direction........
Part 1: Simple question - burn-in? Simple answer - no. Part 2 - nuanced, but still no. Great response by Paul.
Part 1 said interconects no, speaker cable yes, from his experience
The answer is; barely on cables, very obviously on other components. He's not saying 'no' at all. He is even literally saying that one of his own components sounds 'not very good' before burn-in and 'great' after.
And this is how the internet works, people hear and copy what they want others to believe.
Well basic physics says not at all no. That metal just isn't going to get anywhere near hot enough with audio signals to do anything significant.
Some dudes may say that even tip-toes need burn-in.
Man, all those houses I wired in the last 20+ years and not one of them did we “burn in” the wires! Can I be held liable? How do I sleep at night?
Send them a bill for the burn in period now completed.
Then they might ask if I ran them in the right direction!
@@knifeswitch5973 sounds like a truck roll to verify it has not shifted.
@M Pi 😆
@M Pi But water has a memory that has to be erased. Or Homeopathy would not work.
It happens all the times when I buy a new computer. After a couple of weeks of burn in it goes a lot faster! It's the capacitors!
Wifi connection is faster too, the air needs burn it. Too bad that whan I open the windows to change air, I have to start back again...
Just joking, of course.
Thanks for your work, I may be skeptical on some topic, but for sure I learned a lot.
Those 'MTG Space Lasers' are keeping my cables from burning in properly.
Kenji shows directionality in his tests here
I just completed Burning In my el-cheapo interconnects and now they sound like a million dollar interconnects from my el-cheapo speakers! sriously!
Where can I order pure gold cables?
I don't understand these questions. He is basically asking whether any of this makes a difference. Well, if it does, you can hear it, no need to ask Paul. If it supposedly does, but you cannot hear it, it doesn't matter to you. And if it doesn't, well, it just doesn't. Either way, there is no point in asking Paul whether YOU can hear something, or not...
Come on Paul everyone knows the moon is made of cheese! I read it on the Internet. LOL
I can’t say I always agree with everything you say, But I do appreciate your candor. All the best my friend!
These kind of questions (differences in cable sound, burn in of cables/components, differences in DAC‘s/ CD-players...) probably will never die...because some people who are interested in Hifi are never going to learn or experience... What can you do?? -> Ignore those ignorants, Paul McGowan 🤷🏻
It is supremely annoying, though, when you break your arm and people tell you you're just imagining it.
So you really think all cd players sound the same? How many have you listened to, one? And you call other people ignorant, sheesh...
@@yantrussart6584 if you ask me....NO, I do know from own experience that there can be HUGE differences between CD players etc....ignorants are those guys who believe there „can‘t be differences because it’s digital anyway“ or „cables all sound the same“ - BS !!
All interconnects and cables that I've owned have been plug and play. Never have I found them to need burn in or be directional.
He's right as usual.
If burn in is a thing, how can companies manufacture high fidelity equipment if it's sound is going to change after x amount of time once they've sold it?
Look at it another way, manufacturers of scientific equipment like MRI scanners or super accurate atomic clocks, are they saying yeah, the scan will be better once it's burnt in or the atomic clock will be more accurate once the cables/components are burnt in?
Cable burn in sounds like snake oil. Lets consider what happens during the time period known by some as 'burn in'. You're getting used to the sound of your new system. I changed my speakers from KEF LS50's to ATC SCM40's and it took me some weeks to get 'used' to the change. They sound very different, you could never confuse one with the other but I like the way both sound. The ATC just seems to cope better with rock music at higher volumes than the KEF's did.
The video was only six and a half minutes long.
Did you even watch it?
Do MRI scanners and atomic clocks need to sound better to work better? I doubt it ;)
@@adamk4716
Great way to compare apples with oranges. 🙄
@@HareDeLune I thought it was kinda funny.... :)
@@adamk4716
Humor is like that sometimes. Especially in print. : )
As an Irish person, Drogheda in Ireland is pronounced draw-he-da, not dro-gay-da. But I appreciate the try 😅
The only process I can imagine that could give a sense of 'burn in' on cables is changes in any oxidised layer that may exist on the contacts. When first connected, any oxide coating will be disturbed/removed, which would theoretically impact upon the impedance of the system, but only in an exceptionally negligible way. Over the course of time, the oxide will begin to return, but again any effect would be tiny.
Cables make a difference, theres no doubt about it! Honestly though I have a hard time understanding how a set of cables can command prices into the thousands however. When I get to building a DIY amp in coming months, I think ill also opt into giving DIY cable making a shot as well. If I can make a CAT5/6 ethernet cable, im SURE I can handle some speaker wire : D
That's certainly true about cable prices, but the important thing to remember is you're in control. With places like The Cable Company that will send you a box full of demo cables, you can try whatever you want risk free. If you don't see the value, send them back and apply the 5% to some DIY materials. Sometimes I think people feel pressured in some way to make certain purchases.
@@solarfall2728 Yes theres HEAVY psychology going down in audio marketing and with audio consumers. They prey on our internal struggles & confidence in whether or not our systems sound good to us. Another reason to LOVE PS Audio, theres no pressure into buying anyhting and in some cases Paul even advises against buying a piece of his gear!
@Douglas Blake I don't think we're talking about the same thing. There's nothing to debunk. At least not for me.
@Douglas Blake one correction, I can build an amp using pre-made PCB's, I cannot yet design the PCB itself.
@Douglas Blake True.... Its all a matter of trying this and that until one concludes they are satisfied with what they're hearing in the end.
ah cables.... well, to that viewer, give it a shot... if it feels to you that it sounds better then your win. Same for direction, plug them one way, listen to them, take notes. Then reverse plug them, and listen again, if it feels to you that one way sounds better, there you go. Do it that way. It's your cables, your system so use it the way you feel it brings you the best sound and you'll be happy.
On speaker cables, I'm really split because when you open a speaker and see what kind of thin basic cables they use in there (most of the times, I'm sure some manufacturers use very high quality cables inside their speakers), it makes you wonder what was the point of spending a ton on a cable from the amp to the speaker if once inside the speaker the same quality is not there... Yet the speakers sound very good.. Again no matter what, what matters is that you're happy with the sound you get from your system.
The hole in my wallet is still burning
Im going to say, burn in is not a thing in interconnects.
I have found that cables that transmit the best impulse response / frequency response sound the best. Even in a blind test. Though with speaker cables there are some factors i have not been able to measure but can hear, not break in though...
basically, more research is needed
The only thing, that I believe needs burning in, is speakers as they are mechanical and need to loosen up. I have proven this to myself many times.
My dealer can’t hear any different on rca and balanced...but I Can, on my system!! -it’s not like night and day but it’s there...
Still trying to burn my neighbor’s in, after 10years...😳😂🤣
^That's funny brother!!
Some retailers us “Burn-in” as a general deflection and delay tactic to get a customer to continue using equipment and defer returning for a refund - especially for highly expensive cables and interconnects - hence the prevalence of this meme. Not PS Audio who have a generous return policy. (Edited to better reflect meaning)
That is simply not true and it's illogical. Take for example our return policy. When we send you a product we let you know it benefits greatly from burn in of at least 1 week of constant use. However, you have 4 weeks in which to decide to keep it or return it (and if you call and ask for more we're happy to accommodate).
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Sorry I wasn’t clear at all. I didn’t mean to pick on you guys in particular at all. Love you guys and your excellent products which are good value especially when considering how bespoke and seriously engineered PS Audio stuff is. I was just generalizing overall about the prevalence of “burn-in” used in hi-fi to all things including speaker cables, interconnects and speakers etc. For sure caps change over time and obviously so do tubes and voice coils bake and spiders loosen up and ferro fluid dries out and foam rots - however depending on the design, the chosen components and QC - the effect can be audible or barely audible or not at all after a pretty short time period. I have recapped old equipment myself and the difference was audible - so over a time frame of years the difference often becomes absolutely audible. TVs get duller over time too - so component aging and change related to temperature (higher temperatures make things age faster) are real. Are designs that go from terrible sounding to great in a period of a few days a good design though? How much is simply listener adjustment/adaptation to a new slightly different sound?
@@jeremyhughes6485 Thanks, Jeremy. I agree it drives me nuts because, as an engineer, I cannot explain it to my satisfaction, yet as a listener I cannot deny its existence. Tough sitaution.
Paul says he has heard burn-in on speaker cables. He has not. He has imagined it so I suppose it was real for him. Equipment makers burn-in not because of a belief that the sound improves, but because electronics failure tends to happen in the first few hours an so the makers burn-in period can reduce the number of returns of faulty goods. Audio cables are not directional. They carry alternating current. Is a cable was directional it would be right for one half of a cycle but wrong for the other half of the cycle.
I Really enjoy your channel
Здравейте! Търся звук, който да прегаря кабелите и аудиосистемата като цяло, по-бързо от обикновения. Има такава машина, която работи със специфични честоти, но не знам дали просто някой не е записал звука ѝ и просто да го изтегля.
5:23 The auto-generated subs actually got it without me turning the vol up. interesting.
Thing is, the audio world could be really simple. If the music really was the priority the need for endless boxes, tweaks of all kinds and ridiculous disproportionate spending would all fade into obscurity. Interestingly, none of the recording studios I've ever worked in considered this kind of unscientific rubbish. They worry about important things like microphone placement.
Thumbs up if you are binge watching "Ask Paul" video's!
lol ,,, really? Yep I can see how it may be controversial . Soon we will all be heading back to the little tin foil stick on arrows that '' help'' with cable performance.
Dude, this CD can demagnetize your high purity OCC copper cable...
Great video!
Just bought a small box for usb to SP/dif conversion. Only digital. I was completely bumped out becouse it sounded horible. 5 days later i was in heaven. Burn in is real
If the interconnects needed burn in, then the intraconnects would, too.
my audioquest interconnect sound brighter in the “wrong” direction. It’s kinda neat.
Suuuurrrreeee it did
someone wasting that much money nerds to hear a lot of things to not jump out of the window when realize his dumbness
@@Harald_Reindl nah. It was just a $70 RCA pair.
In a transmission line (interconnect cable), there is a positive travelling electromagnetic wave, always propagating from source to load (let's neglect the reflected wave), while the magnetic field and electric field vectors (which are perpendicular to each other and to the direction of wave propagation) constantly change their directions (audio signal is AC). Can any physicist explain how a cable insulation could be sensitive to the direction of electromagnetic wave propagation...? (Keep in mind the el. and mag. vectors constantly change their directions...)
You say you don't hear much of a difference with interconnect cables. I dare you to listen to them for a week or so and then turn them around. Does it sound the same ? I bet not. But they will break in again the other direction unless they were designed to be one direction.
Cable burn in can be accomplished in a standard kitchen oven set to 400 degrees F for 20 minutes. Flip the cable halfway through. No - wait a minute, that's the heating instructions for my tater tots! Please people - there are far more bigger things to worry about in this world!
Actually, you need to do the next step... cryo-forming the conductors by freezing the wires for 48 hours after the burn-in.
Hi Paul, I like your comment about the internet. That one can come up with everything and one will get backup from someone. This is so true.
I love your short videos and your opinions on contrary things. Keep on going :-)
BTW: I love your Audiophile guide. I'm still in setting up my Monitor Audio Gold 200s with your help. Thanks!
Ohhh brother! burn in for X product only matters for his product. Burn in should only matter if you are trying to eliminate any chance of failed component or design. Pretty much capacitors, silicon devices and items that really heat up, change after a long time due to use and environment. Copper, Iron, gold, silver... behaves the same 1second and 1year later.
In recent times I've had to admit to myself, reluctantly actually, that interconnect has less affect than speaker and power cables - - I'm not at all saying there isn't differences because there most assuredly are, just saying that in my own experience, there's more bang for the buck with speaker and power cables - - in the end, ya need 'em all - - and yes, I've run everything in my own personal history with stereo from zip cord on up - so I'm speaking from direct experience, and yes, currently I'm running all reference cables, start to finish, all the same brand, stupid money, the whole deal - - my personal advice, if one can shell out the money, it's the way to go and of course, yes, there's plenty of diminishing returns but I personally couldn't go back - no matter to me if other audiophiles don't think it matters, I'm absolutely fine with that, so no, I don't want to debate or banter - - I'll note that my current reference speakers were broken in using the original monster cable which sounds pretty damn good for not a lot of money and those are certainly a step up from zip cord - so I know from experience what reference cables can do and I mostly agree with Paul - although I do think run time matters, in my own personal experience, it matters to a lesser degree with interconnect.
Interesting.
I have had the polar opposite experience.
I have heard smaller but distinctly noticeable and worthwhile improvements from upgrading power cord and speaker cables, but upgrading the interconnects was a huge, night and day difference for me.
I should also add that I have never used very expensive cables. I have used Monster Cable and some low-end Audioquest cables, as well as Hosa power cord.
I've mostly used cables that were under a hundred dollars.
YMMV
These stories are valuable. But one thing with expensive cables is that, unlike most other gear, they last a lifetime - so if you buy them, better buy them asap.
@@alphaniner3770
That's a good point, actually.
No wear and tear on cables.
Once you find or make a good set, you're done. Provided you keep corrosion and tarnish at bay, they should last for a lifetime as you say.
@Jingle Nuts
Yes, actually.
That's on the list as one of my next projects. However, I plan to use DIY wire for that.
Edit: I'm not expecting a huge improvement. However, pennies add up.
Besides, the wires in those speakers look like they're aluminum (although it could be that they've just been 'tinned' on the ends), so changing to copper is gonna be an upgrade, I figure.
@Jingle Nuts Hi Jingle - not sure you're asking me, but if so, my answer is a resounding YES! Not only, like a lot of us, did I mess quite a bit with my original diy speakers back in the late 70's, but I also, over time, highly modified my set of Magnepan IIIa's - they would be somewhat comparable to today's 3.7i's - anyway, I not only upgraded the passive crossover and built everything with extremely short signal paths, but yeah, I DID change out all of the wiring and dumped the fuses too - all EXCEPT for one key wire, and that's already a high end "liltz" type wire - it's the one that runs to the top of the ribbon tweeter from the base of the speaker - - I'm not kidding Jingle - the detail (and I don't mean "brightness") was such that on a particular recording I could hear the "walls" of the recording studio - that same record, and ya, my ears suck now, but that same record on my current reference system is not as revealing. Gawd, that was a great system, want more? I hard wired absolutely everything, even, believe it or not, after drilling out the headshell and installing from the "mod squad", litz tonearm wire - the cartridge pins too - only the preamp had connectors - anyone that thinks ya can't hear that stuff has never had that experience - this included 10gauge from my breaker box directly to my power amp, no outlet - straight to the amp, and the speaker cable, direct from the board of the amp to the modified crossovers - I got tired of messing with (at the time it was the way to go), but messing with "Cramolin" connector cleaner/conditioner. These mods I did over time, not like in a week or something. Wish we had digital cameras back then cause I'd have pictures - but yeah, I've still got those maggies although I'm not running them and the turntable I mentioned I still have in my system along with my newer reference table (and yes, the pins are still hard wired) - not kidding, it still plays a record really well, if I'm listening to vinyl, I usually que up both tables.
Sound travelling through the air in waves of pressure changes, and our ability to be able to perceive 0db SPL really is a miracle if we think about it. The world is a wonderful place and we're wonderfully made to be able to enjoy it all, the sounds, the sights, the smells. Nothing is more subjective than sounds, and our perceptions of it. We can also shift our focus (attention) from one sound to another that are happening simultaneously which complicates it even more thus making it more subjective. There are two kinds of physics going on for the audiophile. There is the electrical aspect of recording and sound reproduction, and then there is the air pressure aspect. One is much more quantifiable than the other. A study of the physics of electricity, electrical engineering demonstrates that although complex to a degree, it's a measurable quantity. We know about Impedance in AC (alternating current or sound signals). We understand that there are basically three components, resistance (non reactive), capacitance, and inductance and how those affect the signals all the way through the chain of devices including the speakers. We also understand what happens after the speaker, but it's a lot more subjective, and the science is not as quantifiable.. The room, the speaker design, the placement, our mood, our focus, density of the air, vibrations from other sources all play into what we believe we're hearing. We are very much subject to the placebo effect, confirmation bias, power of suggestion from another person which may merely just call our attention to something we might not have paid attention to previously.
I would propose something some professional audiophiles have stated and that is that 'we' need time to adjust to the sound of a rig, to changes we make, so rather than the equipment require break-in or burn-in time, it's probably more like 'us' breaking in to the way the new equipment sounds.
As an electrical engineer, I assure you that a wire is a wire is a wire is a wire. They don't change over time, and even if it were possible for the wire to change, no one would perceive the change. Same with wire direction other than if you want a shield on your wire to help with not picking up 60Hz or other freq noise, you'll want to attach the side of the cable that has the shield lead connected with the ground to the amp. Good shielding generally means only connecting the shield to ground at one end thus preventing ground loops ( a ground loop is where a shield or ground creates a completed circuit that a signal can be inductively coupled to and actually produce a current flowing on the ground. This is similar to how a transformer works, think of the ground loop as the secondary coil on a transformer.
The earth is absolutely round, but mars is flat.
All snake oil. Only thing that has any significant impact on reproduction of sound are the quality of speakers, how clear is the recording and how close is that recording to the actual performance. Rest is all hyperbole.
It must be comforting to believe that.
Next snake oil product will be an air "demagnetizer" in order to better get the sound from the speakers.
Well obviously the moon is made of cheese 😂 😂