Choosing the Right POV For Your Novel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2017
- This video will cover how to choose the best/right POV for your novel! The POV you choose can have a huge impact on tension/pacing, and how your novel is read/the arcs and emotional impact. Very often, if a story isn't working, you may have the wrong POV character or approach.
POV can mean a couple different things, and you should consider not only the character or characters through whose perspective to tell the story, but also the literal POV/tense to use--1st person vs. 3rd person, present vs. past tense, etc. I will cover it all, including why I think 1st person narratives can be "lazy" (but I also love them), limited vs. omniscient POV, why dual/multi-POV is often a mistake and more!
Don't worry: I'll give plenty of examples, most from The Hunger Games :D
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To me, I find writing in Third Person easier than in First Person.
Because when in third person, it's expected your "voice" (author's voice) is the one telling the story. You can go all out; no restrictions in voice.
Unlike in First Person, you have to write the story in a way that the character's voice is the one narrating the story and not the author--more like of a sort of stage acting type writing. For me, I want to convince my readers that my character is the one narrating their tale and not me 😆
After seeing so many first person books lately, I was starting to feel lonely. Glad to know I'm not the only one who prefers third person.
For me it's the other way. I don't know my writing voice yet and don't really know how to develop one, but I find it easier to pretend I am the character and write in their voice. I don't know maybe it's just me.
I honestly couldn't agree more, my friend. Third person is always easy. And if you have multiple POVs then third person is always easier (IMO) because if it's first person you'd have to really delve deep into your chatacter. Like "would (s)he do this?"
Where as in third person I only have to show flashes of their thoughts through italics like: 'that was close! I almost pissed myself!' John thought, as his chest rose and fell.
Lol idk if that makes any sense. Even if it isn't that much easier I just feel much more comfortable in third person.
I'm the opposite, I have so many plans for my MC but can't let their emotions out when writing in third person.
@@bukopandan1557 I used to be just first person and I still use it for some things, I write enjoy it, but the book I am currently trying to write is in third person (which is kind of different for me).
I find you can have a narrator that still sees their thoughts, so the level of emotion when needed can still come out and it can help if switching between povs. obviously there are good books in I form, but third person seems maybe more put together in some way to me. Again this depends on the type of book and feel you are trying to create.
I guess its a case of limited (to one character etc) or omniscient narrator (can see everything ).
I have written for a while, but I am still really a novice writer, especially on whole books, so just what I thought of when you mentioned it being harder to write emotion in 3rd person.
As you mention the difference in Hunger Games, I am suddenly realizing how interesting it would have been for that story to basically follow the stories of several different characters in that world, in different districts, and seeing how their lives are different and coming together in the end. Would be an entirely different book but I think it would be fascinating!
AuroraXA Yes! I would have loved to know Peeta's and of course Snow's point of view.
I agree. I always wondered if any of the peace keepers were ever conflicted? That would be a great pov too.
I think it’s time to write a fanfic
I forget where exactly I read this, but someone once pointed out that the story should be told by the pov of the character who knows the least. And that advice really resonated with me.
i struggle writing in first person bc i feel like the character usually wouldn’t have a good vocabulary so if i write sophisticatedly it doesn’t seem like it’s coming out of their mouth
If you want some really good examples of writing a less educated character in first person I recommend Beka Cooper by Tamora Pierce.
I tried to do 1st person and I just suck at it, 3rd person has been my fav type of writing style.
Actually, one of my favorite novels is in second person. I had to read it a couple of times to fully understand as it gets confusing, but I loved the mystery in it.
I just noticed that the word "tension" is unavoidable when saying "attention". lol
Idk why, but this sudden realization from 3 years ago made me laugh. Thank you :p
I was surprised to hear the Hunger Games example. From what I've discussed with most people, it seems that almost all of them would prefer an omniscient way to tell the story because it allows exploring their world into much more detail. I guess, after all it is really about preferences :D
I love lessons from the screenplay! They have such great insight! Great video once again! Love you diving into detail like this :)
I feel like your videos are not only helpful but also timely. Keep making amazing content!
I LOVE lessons from the screenplay and watching film essays as inspiration for writing
This woman is amazing gosh
Pov and tenses make my brain explode.
Mine, too. Never focused on tenses before.
Thank you for this video. I've always been a bit of a hobbyist writer who comes up with too many new ideas to fully write a piece, but due to recent life struggles and a desire to do something different, i want to take my writing more seriously. This helped a bunch!
Just found this, and this is what I needed to watch! Just finished outlining my novel, and getting ready to write it. Just not entirely sure which POV is best. :D Thanks Alexa!
I prefer writing present tense but I have a habit of switching to past tense without realizing I am doing it. Can be really annoying 😂
This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks!!
Started questioning if I'm even writing my book from the right POV last night 😭
I'm so much more interested in the psychology of my... secondary / antag / love interest 😬
Part of me kinda wants to write the book twice over, once from each of them 😅
your explanation on first-person present-tense is a huge help for helping me understand why I feel like the story on my in it is wrong thank you!
I want to write a story with multiple POV told from the protagonist and antagonist and some minor characters. As a way of showing the different dynamics of the conflict, story, and characters. I also want the audience to kinda love the antagonist. That if they where not on different sides of the central conflict they could be brothers. But how do I do that?
Blastarr1 I’d recommend watching Avatar: The Last Airbender because it’s a great example of exactly what you’re talking about. I think it takes a pair of characters who parallel each other to a certain extent (say, they have similar pasts or similar motivations), but because of their individual circumstances, they are pitted against each other. The only way to fight side-by-side would be for one or both of them to fundamentally change their point of view and trajectory.
Pajali I have watched that show many times I have it on DVD. I love that both the protagonist and antagonist have deep stories and you can see both sides. That is very close to what i want to do but not. My protagonist and antagonist will never side together.
@@Blastarr1, I might suggest you check out "Hello Future Me" (channel on YT)... He does a LOT of essays and examinations of storycraft primarily around Avatar. Since it's close to what you want to do, and you already understand that, it won't hurt a bit to hear and examine someone else's take on what's being done inside and throughout the storytelling...
As an exercise, you can also try your hand at writing "the other half of the story" for some of your favorite works... Take Batman, for example... Watch or read a storyline to completion, and then write the same thing from the Antagonist's perspective. It's just practice, but see what you can make out of it... fitting into the original... You can even make a bit of a project of it, and then let someone (who's already read the original Batman story) check it out and see what they think... feedback helps.
There are other creators and writers who have done the same kind of thing... From "Beowulf" (for example) Harry Harrison wrote "Grendel"... AND he followed up with "West of Eden" as his retort to "East of Eden" (I think?...) lolz... Since reading both of them, I can't keep them straight anymore... brain-damage, I guess.
I'm sure there are other examples, and ideas out there... I've seen at least a handful of vid's that were based on a premise of "Instead of the hero... the villain's journey"... OR "What if this guy's villain was really the hero all along?" ;o)
Well I think that will spoil the story as their will be no mysteries and the reader can guess the ending but if you have got a great plot twist then it's ok if not that's really bad.
You can do something like the dark knight in which the story is in both's perspective but again it's really risky
Lots of writing and work. Good luck with it.
The great gatsby is possibly one of the best examples of this. It’s framed as the reflective memoir of Nick’s time in New York, yet he (the ‘writer’ is the least interring person. If anyone else wrote about those events, they’d be totally different.
Love that book! I think Nick as MC was interesting because he was just kinda there, along for the ride, and IMO the least interesting character, but he made a great narrator, because he's watching the events unfold, the sh--show so to speak and although he's the least interesting, it's because he's the most NORMAL and Down-to-Earth and therefore more likable. Both Daisy and her husband were the least stable. Gatsby would have been too blind in his own love. Jordan would have been an interesting narrator watching her best friend make poor decision after poor decision
Man, you really love the hunger games lol🔥🔥
Keep up the great work
Thank you for your videos!
I want to do First person, Present tense, Several pov. Oh booooy do I feel in over my head haha. I'm not sure I'll ever publish this story I'm writing though. I'm just doing it for fun really. And I will be looking out for all the things you're mentioning like showing vs. telling and using very similar sentences.
Also, when you're saying all of this, I really want to write something that had 2. person future tense. Not for the whole thing, oh my, but just for like, pieces here and there. Just to see if it's possible ;)
Doing things for fun is the only reason we should do anything. Your idea sounds amazing, I hope you've made progress since you left this comment!
(I also wanna do a story from 2nd person just to see if I can :P)
I'm trying to write first person multiple AND a first person omnicient (4th wall break). It' gonna be epic (or i hope it will...)
Lol, that’s what I do. Sometimes it sounds off and I accidentally go into past tense gear, but luckily i realize that I did that soon enough for me to change it back
Something I have experienced while reading books with multiple POVs is that there is always that one pov that you love and wish to get to sooner and there is ALWAYS that one POV you hate that might make you stop reading all together!
That's what worries me most about my writing. I write mostly short stories and novels with multiple first person POVs and I've always tried to make every single POV as interesting as the others but.. yikes. It's difficult. For my current novel, I might just cut most of the POVs in revision.
There was an angel based book I read way back that was told from first person and actually well written. I forget the name though. Worth the read.
Yes on the dual/multiple POVs! The only one I've read that I actually love is the second and third books of the Chaos Walking trilogy by Patrick Ness. The multiple POVs contribute to the stakes, not detract, and each POV has their own distinct voice.
I think Close Third Person Past Tense is my preferred style as well. My novel focuses on a Five Man Band rather than a single MC, so a Close Third Person Past Tense narration really lets me explore all of the characters in more depth. I'd still want it to be a limited POV so the reader learns information as the characters do. I am slightly worried that using a Five Man Band instead of a singular MC will lessen my chances of traditional publication but I can still dream in the meantime =P
Lessons from the Screen Play is a good channel
I've always wanted to see Huckleberry Finn from Jim's point of view.
Hey I love your vids. I'm in the middle of starting my third act on my 3rd novel (and the first one I'm going to attempt to publish) and I am breaking alot of newbie rules because of the nature of the story (multiple mains/no explicit main character, over 200,000 words, bunch of smaller narratives hooked into a larger corporate narrative, etc), and I can see no way to undo these things without destroying the point and purpose of the story. I was wondering if you could do a vid exclusively on omnicient narrative story-telling. Most vids that include the topic bundle it in with the other PoVs and tenses and im lookingnfor details. Thus far I feel like I've struck the right balance but it is hard to judge your own work like that. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thanks for your time.
How does POV come into play with sideplots. If you want to show a side scene but you don't literally want 2 main characters, would you do a side plot in 3rd POV or would you still stay in 1st and show that side plot in the view of a side character without them being too much of a part of the story....does this make sense 🤔
I personally do limited 3rd person. When I pick my pov I ask myself these Questions: 1. Can I stick with this character's pov for 7 to 15 pages? 2. Is the character active or reactive during this time? 3. Are the thoughts and experiences in this character's pov during this time useful or harmful to the tension of the story? 4. Can I sit in the character's pov for 7 to 15 in a believable manner. 5. How compelling and/or amusing is this character's pov for the next 7 to 15 pages?
Really? I just tell the damn story.
@@carlajenkins1990 Everyone has their process.
For me, I tend to do either first person past tense and third person past tense from the POV of one character the most. One of my stories has dual narrators in third, but that's rare. I think that's because as a teenager I wrote fanfiction in first person a lot. When I became an adult and gained more experience as a writer, that kinda stuck, but I expanded it to include multiple narrators and third person depending if that fits the story better.
To really change topics, I've noticed that the majority of modern fanfiction is told in third person with alternating perspectives. I think that's due to a lot of the fandoms that I'm in tend to experience the story in a visual format first (I read mostly fics in the BNHA and Fate fandoms now, but I have read VLD, Gravity Falls and YGO back in the day). Due to experiencing the original story from a boarder prospective, people write fics in that similar perspective in mind like it's a tv show. Writers from these fanfiction backgrounds have to work on limiting their prospective and truly think about what one would work the best for their story instead of just tossing them all in there. (Know that happened to some of my writer friends. xp)
I'm really torn between third person limited past tense (largely focusing on one character, all from within one small group) or reworking so that my novel is told from first person past tense from that one character that the third person is largely limited to watching from. With both POVs I would still be able to limit and gradually reveal information, so it almost comes down to more of a voicing thing. I can't decide how much using my protagonist's voice, who largely acts as a observer for several events in the novel, will add to the novel, but in many of my favourite novels on the same themes (JG Ballard's writing, Bret Easton Ellis' writing, etc) they do use first person. How much do you think the person you pick plays into the genre you are meant to pick? Would it be silly to be writing in a POV uncommonly used in a genre?
Very often, conventions of the genre do come into play... but you also have to follow your gut. There are exceptions that happen all the time, re: using a less common POV for the genre.
I'm a sucker for first person past tense, esp because all my favorite angsty stories are written this way, and it's also how I tend to write. It's as if I'm a more mature version of myself with limited knowledge but more than I had when the action is taking place. TBH, I am a lazy writer, but it's my favorite kind of writing. I balance that with years of practice, studying journalism and English literature and all that jazz. I'd love to see Beat writing (or stream of consciousness) bounce back in a new intersectional way. Except make it so we're still exercising the craft of writing -- blending creativity and conscious control. At any rate, I practiced writing a little long fanfic in third person and was all in a tizzy about POV about halfway through. It's more difficult than I thought. Thanks again for the tips!
Hi @Alexa Donne I like all your videos. Thank you so much for your insight! I do have a question about any suggestions you have to elegantly combine third person POV with dialogue. It seems to me dialogue makes the most sense in present tense maybe you can point out some good examples of transition? Or is there something else I should be thinking of? Gearing up for NaNoWriMo. Thank you so much
Hi Alexa your videos are very inspiring and have given me a lot To think about for my book Which has given me a lot to think about from the moment I started building my idea which was seven years ago. But I think what I struggled with the most is in fact my desired POV. Unfortunately I have 12 different characters that go their own separate ways into side stories just about them in two parts in my book. How old are the rest of the book could quite possibly be told in person. But I wondered your thoughts and personal opinion on if that would be just too much.. or maybe the best way For my readers to embark on the journey is the 12 separate characters go through 50% through the total book but 1/2 way before the climax and the other half after the climax?
I was using the POV of 2 sisters in my story, but the younger one is clearly more interesting. The older one was supposed to be a kind of faux protagonist in the beginning, but after 150 pages I realized it made the begining very slow. I knew I had to fix it somehow, maybe increase the tention on her scenes, but after your video I think the best option is to cut her POV entirelly. Better do it while I'm still half way through the story.
Hey, I'm a new subscriber and I fell in love instantly with your channel. I do have a question though. I'm about halfway through my first novel, and it is a multi pov story. It's about something that happens to a small town and we get to see everyone's reaction to this potentially life threatening situation they are all facing. Regarding PoV, is there anything you'd suggest doing to make the multi PoV writing easier and seemless?
Thank you very much, and lots of love from Brazil
Hi, I'm new to your channel and loving the videos! If you want a great first person present tense book to check out, read the Chaos Walking series by Patrick Ness. He does a wonderful job of it, enough so you barely even notice it. You're just THERE, in the book with Todd. And what I really love about it is how deeply he dives into the character, right down to how he spells certain words. Todd is an illiterate character, so when he uses the word directions (for example) or thinks the word, it's spelled "directshuns" on the page. The author pulls this off so well that your eyes gloss over it pretty easily, but it serves its purpose in giving you a very good sense of Todd as a character and his level of education. Which is even more impacting because later on his inability to read causes problems for Todd and creates conflict. Haha, sorry for the rambling. I just cannot say enough good things about it. If you haven't read it yet I highly recommend it! It's present tense first person done right.
I’m not a huge fan of multi pov in general but “her pretty face” and “i’ll give you the sun” are both books i REALLY love. I recommend them.
POV question - I'm writing a book with two point of views. It will be one of those where I flip between the two characters after each chapter like Jesmyn Ward's Sing Unburied Sing if you have read that. House of Sand and Fog also does this.
My question is can I have one POV be first person and the other be third person? I don't think I've ever read a book with a first person that then switches to a different character in third person. Usually books like that have everyone as first person. (Sing Unburied had three first person POVs.)
I ask because I really want to tell the story from the one character's POV but need to tell the other character's story as well, but I don't want such an intimate relationship with the second character. I want more of an outsider omniscient POV for that one and the intimacy of first person for the other.
Good stuff...I think that the District 1 perspective might have been a more interesting perspective and better novel. It's all in what the author would reveal about the character and develop the story....
Is there an adult version of author mentor match?
Can someone help me? My doing my startup story of ff. So according to the story , one female lead describing herself , like how should I describe POV
I was eating or you was eating
How do you feel about present tense with past tense moments? Just wondering. I am starting a new book, my First book. I just came across your channel and I am so happy I did. I've already learned so much.
Do you think fewer POVs are required, in general, for YA? I'm a newbie writing adult fantasy, and I do/love 3rd person past CLOSE (I love feeling inside the character's head), but I have a lot of POVs... (7 "important" characters including the 2 main, plus a couple other randoms for an interesting perspective). I'm writing (I think) a quartet, so I want to develop different story lines starting in the first book. I always enjoyed this style, like with Robert Jordan or George R.R. Martin. Am I running too big a risk of confusing people?
Hi Alexa! Would you consider Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events to be told in 2nd POV or from an omniscient narrator?
I’m thinking for my book 3rd POV limited. I and well my boyfriend who’s writing the book with me know what’s going to happen we already have the first act or part one of book one done.
HI! I have a question that the video did not make very clear. so I am writing a book with 3 main characters, which pov do you think is best?
BTW, Lessons of The Screenplay is AMAZBALLS! Thank you :D :D :D :D :D
Newly subbed! Would it be best to tell flashback moments in 1st POV present tense?
This is valuable information. Thank you.
I'm writing a story with multiple dream sequences. I'm thinking about writing the dream sequences in a narrative pov, and the rest in the first person pov. While i think that it may serve the story in a demarcation sense, I'm concerned it might lead to reader confusion and disengagement. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thank you.....
The way Robin hobb writes duel pov. Mwah. Just beautiful
If you have two characters who share a journey together all the way through a book, like my middle grade novel, which point of view do you use?. I feel better If there's a conversation between the two characters so what should I do?
When I was planning my series I intended to write in 3rd person multi but when I started the actual writing I found myself writing in 1st person. For this particular story and main character I feel like 1st person was the right choice, but after this video I think I know why my brain sort of defaulted to telling my fingers to type I's and me's.
As for what you said about a tight/close 3rd person being tricky, wouldn't be as simple as writing it all in 1st person and then later CTRL+F and Replace All to change all the I's to the character's name, the me's to he's or she's (or they's in the case of a non-binary character), the our's to their's, and the we's to they's? Technically I'm a beginner writer but I think I know story-telling in general well enough to ask if this thought would be valid.
The thing I've always been curious about is how first person past tense could change the tension. Most readers will see that as the character telling the story, post story, right? Which gives this idea of plot armor/safety of the character.
Can you kill your character in first person past tense? Should you stay away from it? Would you shift to another character during/after death and would that be super clunky?
I'm doing dual POV. Not a romance story, I just have two main characters.
This is way too late because it’s like a year ago but here’s my dealio.
My initial instinct was to of course go multiple POV’s, because there’s no way the story can make sense without multiple POV’s. Mainly between 3 characters. (The POV of one side character though to express the experience of loosing your faith, to emphasize the conflict) They would all be past tense, but one of them would be 1st person while the other two would be 3rd person. All of them limited.
Now I’m thinking maybe all first person or maybe all third person. I don’t know how much I want to do 1st person on one character but I also don’t know how much I want to do 3rd person on one character. Ugh. We’ll test some things
How do you feel about multiple perspective third person limited that doesn't necessarily have a clear transition between perspectives (like separate chapters or section breaks)?
I was just blocking out a scene the other day that flows like this. I came to regular story writing from playwriting, and I love split stage scenes.
For my two cents', I'd only caution that this sort of "stylistic choice" has the tendency to be confusing... SO be careful.
That's not to say it isn't great when it's done "right" in novel form, only that it can be difficult to do well. On some level, throughout the story, there has to be a clear shift from one to the other POV, so the reader isn't drawn to poor conclusions about who's voice you're using. Jokes that are funny from the guy's point of view fall utterly flat from the girl's... and vice versa.
AND as long as we touch the possibility of confusing the readers, consider how easily YOU (writer) might make a misstep... in the middle grounds somewhere... and throw the pace and voice hopelessly off. It's easier to do than you might expect, and proofreading your own work is difficult and treacherous enough (even as a necessity).
All that said, so long as you can clearly differentiate the perspectives, you should at least experiment with it. Either you'll find your "groove" in there somewhere, or it's going to prove some level of difficulty "above your current paygrade" and you simply need to tinker with it a while yet. ;o)
Honestly, I find that first-person past tense is way easier to write than first-person present tense for the reason that in a past tense scene, your character would have had time to reflect and in some cases, gain more knowledge on a situation because they have already experienced it. Whereas, writing in the present tense, you get a better feel of the character which includes how impulsive or how calculated the character is. Past tense is quite literally reflecting and we as people and if you're writing a story, your character will definitely have human traits even if it's not human, will have learned from that experience instead of going through it with the reader. I think it makes the reader see how naive a character may be or how they would react in certain situations. All in all, we tend to question others actions and just because you're older doesn't make you the same person you were even as little as 10 minutes ago. Example, you go to the fridge for some pudding. The you ten minutes from now may question that action saying it's dinnertime or something but the you that went to get pudding wouldn't have questioned it in the same way.
I prefer writing in third person past tense. My only problem is that I'm not sure which of my characters I should focus on for the pov. Sometimes it feels like I have too many ideas and I'm going to end up unnecessarily over stuffing my book. Multiple povs is so tempting for me because I feel like the scale of my story idea is big enough to accommodate it. But again, I don't want to do too much. So, I thought "just focus on one character's perspective and work from there" but then I just get stuck because the other characters in my story just have so much more going on. But that's the feel I'd like to go for. This person who gets dumped into this surreal world and learns and grows from it because of the people around them. (I feel like surreal is the wrong word. It's not a dystopian story and it doesn't really go that far into the real of fantasy really. It's YA set in the present day, but I'm South African and I want to incorporate some things concerning South African folklore, myths and such. It's more of an action/drama).
I don't know how to approach it because I don't want to do exposition dumps for all these different people that the main character meets, but I'm not sure if flashbacks would be appropriate. I know the rule is show don't tell, but I don't know how I would show and not tell without using multiple povs.
I've been stuck on this for years and the idea for this story hasn't gone away. Everyday it just keeps getting bigger and more detailed in my head, but when I start writing I get stuck. When I try to focus on telling the story from the one character's point of view, I feel like I'm not saying enough. And when I use one of the other characters as my base, then I feel like there's no suspense. It feels like they're already so involved in the environment that the story is set in that everything just feels like lazy exposition. The I think, "OK, just tell their story from the very beginning before they enter this environment". But then I just get stuck on which character I should pick. There's one character that's at the center of most of the conflicts in the story, which does make her a good candidate for the pov of choice. But I'm dead set against doing that. I've tried and it seriously just sucks all of the tension and build out of the story when you're experiencing everything through her eyes. I just end up feeling like I'm being melodramatic.
So now I have this idea, that's been nagging me for seven years and I have no idea how to handle it. I know how it starts, I know what I want to happen in the middle, I know how I want it to end. I know who I want my main characters to be. The problem is the pov. I love the idea of multiple pov's, but I'm terrified of over stuffing the story and doing too much.
In that case, pick out the perspective that is the most interesting to read and see the world from. My guess based on what you just said is tell the story from a third person limited from the POV of the person dumped into that world and is experiencing most of the story and stick with it. It would give a more Alice in Wonderland sort of feeling and would allow the audience to experience the world a bit better.
I like close third person past tense. I usually only focus on one character, but everything is third person. It's also my favorite to read, with the exception of Rick Riordan's books. He also does multi POV REALLY well. When he transitions from character to character, you know immediately who is narrating. But most fall flat.
Hi. I know this is an old comment but I would be interested in your opinion on the topic. I appreciate how he managed to give everyone their own voice and how you could easily tell who's POV it was.
Why do you think/feel everything fells flat? Is is because you don't like the characters? Is it because you can't connect with them? Is it something in hiw writing style?
So, I'm writing a story where multiple characters are living and sharing the same experience at the same time, which means they don´t know the things that will happen outside of them. Their desire is basically the same, so let's say their story is shared. But they around a dozen of people, and their personalities are completely different. Should I write it in omniscient POV or try to make several POVs in limited 3rd person?
i hope i explained myself, i'm not a native english speaker
What about 1st person multiple pov present tense?
I actually feel way more engaged in books that are written in third person past tense than first person and/or present tense. Present tense puts me off a bit, mostly (not always) and first person makes me cringe a bit. I think it's because I'm NOT this person, and when I read "I saw the man... blah blah" it puts me right out of it... because I don't see it. If that makes sense? But third person can be just as intense and "in the now". I still sit on the edge of my seat as I read about the MC who's hanging on to the cliff... or whatever... even as it's in past tense and said: "She gripped the edge with her fingertips... blah blah". I don't know why, maybe it's just because I read a TON of adult fantasy? And that's the way they usually are written and so I'm more used to it? I don't know. But at least it never conflicts with the "me". So, naturally, I write in third person past tense. :D I also think it's way harder to write in present tense, and in first person. But especially present tense. It's sooo easy to slip up and write said, thought, fell, did... etc. Because it's how we generally tell stories to other people. Past tense.
I have been debating using first person past tense (maybe because I've been reading a lot of Dresden Files), but the concern I have is it almost seems to kill any tension relating to your POV character. "If they are alive to tell the story to me now," I wonder, "then this person is never in any mortal danger, it seems."
Is that a reasonable concern? Anyone know of any books out there that successfully pull of first person third tense but still manage to keep a firm hold on their POV character's tension? My guess is the answer is simply finding tension outside of mere life and death
I can see what you mean and that it could be tricky.
Maybe you are in the action, so you could feel the death as it happens, its not a book, the reader is a kind of wired god like stalker onlooker. I feel a past tense narrator in first person can still die, it feels a bit wired/ non sensical when you think about it, but it's like they are telling it from beyond the grave and you don't need to believe in an afterlife to do that.
One famous example that came to mind, it is 3rd person limited is Harry Potter (not saying it's necessary the best writing, but I enjoyed it and the world). In the last book where others think Harry is dead dead, we don't see it from the perspective of those who think he is dead e.g. Nevil, but there is still tension through out the plot.
Examples (randomly made up on the spot, sorry if they are long or bad)
Pov switch at the end (not sure if this works or too confusing.)
When the body was found years later, it had already began to decompose. the magots had burrowed into the eye balls and the skin had become fertiliser for the earth. This was the last trace humans had of the unholy act committed on the night of August 12th 1801
or
I screamed , but no sound came out. the knife sunk deeper into my side. The pain ripped through my raw unbridled side, sending waves of nausea across my body. Was this how it was going to end?, alone on the floor of the libary. I wanted to grab my phone, not to call 999, but to tell Jessica I loved her. I always had. I had just been scared that she'd figure out my secret.
I guess the tension is in the moments before death or not
you could switch to present tense at the end (but I'm not sure if this would be confusing)
The floor felt colder than I remembered from all the times I fell over as a kid. I had been born here, loved here , laughed here, thrown up and fallen over here and now I was going to die here. I had completed the circle of life in this kitchen. I cried softly, but not because I wanted to stay on, but because of how beautiful the moment had been, as i looked back across flashes of my life. The world around me started to blur, fading into an indistinct haze. I knew it wasn't the blur of tears., I had come to the end. I felt strangely content, like the last 96 years had been spent well. finally, I close my eyes, letting the irrevocable happen. I am at peace, the gentle arrow of Artemis taking me away to answer the great question.
point is there can still be tension in 1st person.
but I am no expert, just some random thoughts, that might not be very good. I hope this makes sense and maybe helps. Sorry if I didn't really answer your question.
Actually, I think I would’ve been MORE interested in Hunger Games if it was almost set up like Orange is the New Black where we discover how and why each tribute got involved in the games. I’d love to read that
I might be alone on this one but I would jump on a hunger games from district 1 perspective. I typically don’t gravitate to YA, so maybe my perspective is skewed.
Comp title for anyone wanting to get away with stunt writing: *Harrow the Ninth.* Part second person, part bold-faced gaslighting you about what happened in the previous book in the series, and it works unbelievably well. (Albeit it IS the second book in a series, so it comes with some pre-existing buy-in.)
Or maybe 1st person present for main character and third person past for other main characters
I am heavily considering a major rewrite to do this.
What if you're telling it in future tense?
I just want to say that I was thorougly more shocked by Shutter Island than Mystic River because of the POV choices. I also enjoyed Shutter Island more than Mystic River because I was able to connect and root for the character in Shutter Island, whereas I wasnt allowed the proper time to connect and root for the characters of Mystic River.
I have what is possibly a silly question. Why is it that everyone is warned off writing in second person so strongly? I've been writing a lot of interactive fiction lately and most of it is done in second person because of the format (the reader is the main character, or at least guiding them). But after writing that way, I'm having trouble working out why it would be so bad for every type of creative writing? Surely it could fit somewhere? (I've written short stories in 2nd person as well which I think work, but then again I haven't had those seriously critiqued either as they were written just for fun so I could be wrong.) Anyway, just wondering what the thought is on why using "you" is so bad, but "I" is ok? (Genuinely curious :) )
OId comment, I know, but usually it's because it comes off as clunky and awkward. They are extremely hard to pull off. There is always a disconnect in that POV. People perceive that character as being literally themselves because of the "you" pronouns. If the "character" isn't acting in a way that reader would or makes decisions the reader would never make, it immediately takes them out of the story. Same if the character doesn't look like them as well. The only time I find it really works is if you want to write a blank slate self insert character (mostly in erotica/ NFSW fanfiction), horror fiction where the POV character doesn't matter as much (like Edgar Allen Poe's work) or in choose your own adventure books. Granted, there are probably exceptions out there, but they are super rare. Usually third or first person past tense just comes off a bit more natural for general creative writing, because there is always distance there, considering the POV character is another entity instead of literally you the reader.
I despise being forced into POV I don't associate myself with (and I don't tend to while reading). Close third person/cam from behind/from the shoulder of the character, like Martin executes it, is so much better IMO.
In another of your videos ( I've seen most of them ) you mention that the protagonist must have a reason to do what they do ie they are not born evil. But if your telling the story in first person, how can you inform the reader about the protagonist's back ground with out breaking the cardinal rule of ' Showing Not Telling '.
I am struggling so bad with this. I typically do thriller novels but after ten of them I want to try something different. To that end, I decided to go with a Neo Noir Femme Fetal.
Part of me wants to go First Person POV so that it is spicy and personal, making every vile decision the main character makes intense. But… a femme fetal has such a simple plot that I am concerned about word count. Third person is so easy to do because there is more that can be included.
A true Catch 22. First person point of view being intense for a femme fetal all because of limited scope, but the same intensity it makes an appropriate length book a struggle.
Grrrrrrrr……
Is it okay to tell the story in third person 90% following the main character but then follow side characters on rare occasions?
do you guys mind fanfics written in 3rd person???
SAMEEEEEEE. I love reading and writing using first person, past-tense.
Although, why is is First Person Point of View instead of First Person's Point of View? Hahaha!
I have a problem with my current project regarding the POV. I have two POV characters, one of whom is overall the more interesting character and everything inside of me wants to write the story from his POV. Normally I would shift to him and tell his story. The problem is, that he can't see the ending. The character who spans the whole story is omniscent (he's like the god of his world), but because of this he is less human and therefor less interesting then the other character. It's so difficult, because the story can't be told from just his POV, but I'm afraid the god-like one just bores the reader (even after I got comments on how interesting the god-like one is ...). ARGH
Hi, what did you decide and what have you learned? I am trying to learn about omniscient pov/perspective. I am confused because I read that if your story is written in omniscient, then the omniscient narrator cannot be a character in the story. I want to have a character in the story be omniscient, at least at the beginning of the story. Also,
In omniscient, can the characters wince, raise an eyebrow, clench fists, (show) thoughts and emotions through body language, facial expressions and sensations, or, should the omniscient narrator tell the thought or feelings, because the omniscient knows everything. When and why should an author/narrator show instead of tell, when writing in omniscient? Why would an omniscient narrator write Sally clenched her fists, instead of telling the reader she was angry?
Which is correct for omniscient? Sally blushed or Sally turned red or Sally felt her cheeks get hot? Because it's the narrator's pov and perspective and knows all, I'd think the narrator can describe Sally using any of the examples. But I'm not sure and cannot find info on correct use of these types of things. Any insight, or rules of thumb I can follow? I understand that in third person limited where the pov and perspective are from a single main character at a time, one should probably write Sally's cheeks got hot because she is experiencing it and cannot see the redness. Not sure what the rules are for omniscient.
Lastly, because the omniscient narrator knows all, why do I read instructions that it's still best to stick with one main character per scene or chapter, instead of switching to another character? I understand that rule with third person limited / multiple, but with a narrator being omniscient, I'd think it'd be ok say what a different character was thinking and feeling as long as it's clear to the reader. I am probably wrong but all I can find on the subject is warnings about head hopping, and I'm not sure if a narrator who tells or shows the thoughts or feelings of different characters is head hopping, since the narrator is not using the voice or perspective of the character (because the narrator is using his or her own pov/perspective.) Does this mean you can't write Sally was hot with anger. John could see Sally was fuming, but ignored her?
Has anyone ever written a story in 2nd Person or Future tense?
nunouno001 i think this wouldnt work for a whole novel, but short stories have been written like that and i believe a part of the beginning in nk jemisins the fifth season is also written like that.
Ummm... I found this video today... And I'm now scared to comment because the comments are 1 or 2 years ago
But, this video makes my head hurts. I use omniscient in my climax, Where it builts a good thrilling mode
But the whole book is really good for first person.. And now I revised my climax and it makes the thrill to mysterious
I have an idea that keeps haunting me everytime i write down an idea
Strangely enough, I have serious problems writing first person unless It's from an extremely eccentric characters POV.
I'm disappointed you skipped over second. There are reasons to use 2nd. My mind was BLOWN when I figured out my book should be in 2nd and 1st due to it's content
Can someone help me? Let’s say you have two main characters, how do u choose which ones POV to use?!?!?
Why not both? But if you decide to choose only one, pick the one whose POV creates the most interesting story. Could be they have the more compelling voice, or their experience has the most tension, etc. Your goal at the end of the day is capture the reader's interest in the most effective way possible.
I love first person POV. However, I dislike present tense in first person. I prefer past tense.
Third person past tense is the best, don't @ me 😂 that's all I ever write in.
Alicia you seem to be a romantic ... How about Steven Kings novel where this woman brakes this poor little helpless man who loves to Wright romantic storeys and he was famus for writing.. And she began to be possive over him . she owned him and keep cripeled him helpless and bead ridden.
Sitting here writing a book in first person present tense like ummmm....
"No would want to read from the point of view of a District 1 tribute"
Me: Yeah. Reading from the point of view of what is essentially a child soldier brainwashed to be willing to kill and die for someone's entertainment isn't at ALL interesting.
Say that when they get to the actual games they have to team up with someone from a lower district out of necessity and they become friends. The protagonist learns about the plight of lower districts and begins to question their upbringing. Then said friend is killed and the protagonist goes on a roaring rampage of revenge. They win the games with all the honor that comes with it but its all hollow to them now. They're left bitter and have a healthy dose of PTSD.
Nope sounds boring..
I prefer Second Person POV.
How often does a male try and write from a female's point of view. Can it be done?
Adam Pyke i think it can be possible for you to do this well but please dont fall into cliches
Yes, it can be done and it can be done well. The 'A Song Of Ice And Fire' series (Game of Thrones) has multiple povs and about half of them are from a female's point of view. The entire series is written by a man and most (not all) female characters are well-written and realistic.
I've actually read lots of books by males that their MC is a female and in my opinion it's done really well
It's possible. The books in the Song of Ice and Fire series have multiple POVs and at least half of them are from the perspective of women. His Dark Materials was also written by a male author and had the MC be a girl. Same with the Coraline novel, which was written by Neil Gaiman. I had no problems with any of those. I also seen the reverse a lot as well. For instance, Leigh Bardugo wrote in multiple POVs for her later series, including the perspective of guys, and they came off as believable. (I'm a girl, so I'm not sure what other guys think of those books.) Just make sure that they are fleshed out characters and realistic.