Hey everyone! As a few of you have mentioned about the first day at Chilton, I said in this video that Rory was planning on going to the dry-cleaners. I realised after posting it that in fact Lorelai made this comment, not Rory. I am now editing the video to remove that little section. It's quite an insignificant thing and my point about Rory being parentified is something I still 100% stand by, as many of you have agreed it is incredibly obvious. But sorry if my comment confused anyone! 💖 When I was noting down the girls' dialogue in that specific Chilton scene, I read through an online script, which was actually very fun, but unfortunately it had an error with the girls' names. I thought I was being more time-efficient and factual, but in the future I will have to play every scene through like I would normally do :) Also, one of you said that the clothes scene is confusing, which I agree with- because Lorelai has nothing to wear and needed to get the dry-cleaning, yet a recurring theme later on is how many clothing items they have 🤔
I disagree. The girls doesn't have good female friendships. Especially in the case of Lorelai. Lorelai friendship with Suki is at time so problematic. The way she patronize Suki for daring criticizing Lorelai relationship with Max. Or the way she talk down on her for their project. They are so many times Lorelai uses passive aggressive comments to Suki, and it amazed me that Suki is still always there for her. The scene that send me through the roof was the baby baptism. Who does that?!? On several occasions, the show demonized motherhood by either, shaming women for having kids (Suki) or by disparaging women who have children and leave because of a mental breakdown (Sherry). This, considering the amount of time men do it. If I had to think of an episode that frustrating me the most was the one where Rory is accepted to Yale, Harvard and all her other choices, while Paris was rejected. The implication behind it was basically shaming Paris for 'loosing' her virginity. To the point that they had Lorelai, a hard core feminist, saying that she had the 'good' child! If this was a joke I didn't find it funny!
@@SerenaSkybourne totally get an honest mistake! I prefer to receive critique suggestions and corrections privately myself, so I try to do the same for others where possible :) but then I saw the pin and was like aha everything is under control lol I know, too, sometimes when fans pick up a mistake especially on something they feel is criticising their fandom, they can be a bit overly protective, so I didn't want you to get piled on too. 🩷
you are so thoughtful it's actually so heartwarming. I don't know many people that would think twice about something like this or approach it in this way @@thesensationaladventuresof1150
but that is the point of "Cool Girls" is not what they are authentically out here doing what they love, but that they are specifically cultivating themselves towards a male fantasy quote: "And the Cool Girls are even more pathetic: They’re not even pretending to be the woman they want to be, they’re pretending to be the woman a man wants them to be."
I kinda loved this cause Rory and Dean fought so hard to make the argument Lindsey was the problem but no matter what they said it held no weight to the reality of how wrong they were. Everyone in and outside the show just sat there and saw them for the clowns they were
What I never liked about the show - is portrayal of eating habits. We are constantly told how much Lorelai and Rory eat, and especially MEN in the show are impressed by it, but actually - they never show us that they eat a lot. They always leave half full plates, or walk away from Luke's without finishing the food and etc... I think this is a very "cool girl" thing: they can eat more than a man, never exercise and still look conventionally beautiful, while the rest of us have to be on a diet.
It may be a 'cool girl' thing, or it may just be a filming thing. These are definitely not the first takes of any of these scenes. It's probably easier on the actors and film crew to leave a half-full plate and film a scene at a table, but where Lauren and Alexis (Lorelai and Rory respectively) don't have to keep eating for multiple takes. Like, I do understand where you're coming from with the 'cool girl' trope as it comes to eating habits, but there is probably another reason to it
@@katelyntaylor7384 That's a good point. I learned about the horrors of eating while filming from Office Ladies (the podcast with Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey of The Office), and those were just smalllll amounts of food compared to what they eat on GG. It may have all been very unintentional, the whole leaving the food behind; it must have been tough for the actors to be on a show where their characters have such a love of food!
@@Sarah-mh5ez Yeah. I also see your point, the cool girl trope, where they eat junk food, eat more than the guys, never actually exercise and yet are always gorgeous. With the diets the Gilmore girls have and the habits they have, they should not look like they do.
I also think it is bul*mia coded, as it is common for people with bul*mia to eat big amounts of food right before purging. And it's not just Gilmore girls, a lot of 'cool girl' personas show this behavior.
I loved Gilmore Girls back in the day but what always bothered me was that they potrayed it as cool and sophisticated to be a big fan of old movies and old bands. And if a character liked more modern stuff, it was potrayed as "too mainstream" or "so lame" or "not unique". You can be unique and still love modern movies and hate old movies. I consider myself as a classic girly woman. While I loved "male subjects" at school (I HATE that this prejudice exists and don't agree with it) like maths and chemistry at school and work in a male dominated area (lawyer), I love dresses, make up, curling my hair, mani/pedis, massages, brunch etc. And sometimes Gilmore Girls made me feel like I am less worth than Lorelei and Rory in the eyes if men because of that.
Lorelai and Rory are literally portrayed as loving all those things AND going into (at the time and currently) female dominated professions (hospitality and journalism/writing). I think you watched a different show.
@@christam5162 and I think it is quite presumptuous to assume that a different view/impression of a show means that one's own impression is the right one and the impressions/views of others who don't agree are automatically so wrong that you can only conclude that they didn’t properly pay attention. I absolutely disagree with your statement bur would never act like your impression is wrong and "you apparently watched a different show". My impression of Gilmore Girls was always that woman who love "feminine stuff" without loving old movies/old books/old bands (= who aren't edgy ir different at the same time) are not as "cool" as Lorelai and Rory. Sorry to burst your bubble but it is entirely possible that 2 people watch a show and have a different view of it and interpret the storyline differently. Doesn't mean one has the "right" impression and the other one is so wrong that it is almost silly.
I felt the same, not only by Gilmore Girls, but by most media I consumed as a young kid. Girly girls like me never got any positive representation, we were all evil or stupid
The only difference was of course that Carrie was the blond, can't have a man marry a blond and cheat with a blond, that's ridiculous. Now I'm having a nightmare scenario of picturing GG with narration from the girls. If what they say is sometimes awful, what they would be thinking would be horrendous lol
Lindsey was Dean’s desperate attempt to move on from Rory and was probably never a very good husband to her as a result…he was just biding his time in hopes Rory would see he was actually the man for her. But he botched it horribly, convinced Rory he practically had divorce papers in hand, and then she was blamed for his cheating. Rory didn’t respect Lindsey’s emotional property, but she didn’t have a contract with Lindsey, Dean did. He was responsible for holding up his end of the marriage agreement and he fkd it. And how dumb do you have to be to leave a letter like that in your jacket when your wife does the laundry?? His biggest mistake was getting married in the first place, he knew full well he didn’t love Lindsey and should have just dated her; it’s a lot easier to break up with someone you aren’t married to (duh). Dumb moves all around!
the casual sexism in Gilmore Girls reminds me of memories of talking to aunts, teachers, older women in general when I was younger that were intelligent and that I really respected, but can now see were very judgmental of all girls who were not their ideal- e. g. girls who used crop tops and short shorts, girls who were obsessed with boys, girls who didn't care for school... and I feel very glad that I was able to reflect on that and outgrow it. Isn't it amazing how, looking back, young women had all of society pushing to divide us? I love Gilmore Girls, but I am so happy we evolved from that
I agree with you on all of it. Gilmore Girls is my number one fave show of all time, but I hate the fat shaming and hating other women that aren't them or Sookie or Lane. And also, with OTH, they had a very sexist perverted creator. Who wouldn't let Brooke and Peyton be a thing or have Peyton with Anna. But that's a whole other story. Hope you're enjoying your time in Paris!
Same same! It’s my ultimate rewatch/comfort show but oh BOY this most recent rewatch has been….enlightening to say the least. I’m picking up on so much bullshit I didn’t before , pertaining to fat shaming and other weird jokes that leave a bad taste in my mouth! Just like she said, I’d like to think it’s just a sign of the time but stiiiilll it aged so badly. And considering it’s even in the Netflix reboot …. Might just be the writers showing their true colors 🥹😬
This is wonderful. As a 65 year old woman, it is fascinating to think back on the decades I've been sentient, and see the types of things that were simply part of the air we breathed that are being exposed and challenged now.
Great analysis and kudos in particular for calling out Rory's horrible 'fat thighs' comment. Funny how she was so quick to judge a fellow student on something so superficial, yet didn't see a problem with the 60-something professor dating her barely legal friend....
Btw am I the only who found it ridiculous that in the first Chilton episode, Lorelei seriously didn’t have anything else to wear? 😅 even if her nice clothes weren't available (I think they were at the dry cleaning?), she must have had other clothes than what she actually wore 😅 But then she wouldn't be the cool mom, so there's that 😅
Right?! It's pointed out and out throughout the series how many clothes they have yet she had nothing else to wear?! Also, Rory and Lorelai swap clothes all the time. She could have grabbed some jeans and a decent top of Roy's to make herself look normal.
@@TheMarkmcr I don't care that she met the principle and Rory didn’t tell her before that she wants her to come with her. It is the fact that she wore this outfit at all. Honestly, she couldn't come up with another outfit? Yeah eyerone can wear what they want but this seemed sooo forced, like they wanted to portray her as the cool mom sooo much. And Yes she wore a coat so most of the time people couldn't see the outfit but for example, you could still see the Cowboy boots. So seriously, she didn’t even had other shoes??? Nothing against Cowboy boots but the whole idea that she couldn't come up with a different outfit and different shoes even though they have so many is silly. And btw I would never expect my teenage child to tell me she wants me to meet the principle, if I drive her to the school like Chilton I at least take the possibilty into consideration that I could have to walk her into school and/or meet the principle.
They mention a lot how Rory borrows Lorelai's clothes so we're supposed to believe even Rory didn't have something more appropriate? We also see Lorelai with her dry cleaning later... and she's clearly not carrying around her entire wardrobe, so... she fully chose that outfit (that, looking at the whole show... is really out of character to begin with).
I think Rory being "parentified" makes sense. Lets remember that Lorelai was 16 when she had Rory. She wasn't through being a kid, when she had a kid. Plus, Lorelai never had a "normal" childhood either. Emily and Richard forced her to behave a certain way; which prompted her to act rebellious and leave home not long after having Rory.
The funny thing too about the Donna Reed episode was that Lorelai makes fun of this idea of Donna being 'virtuous' but that's exactly what she wants Rory to be. The idea of her daughter having sex makes her feel like she's failed and gives her anxiety. Meanwhile, if you ever watch the Donna Reed Show, it almost always ends implying that Donna and her husband are about to have sex. Usually with her being the one instigating it.
I somehow never saw that episode in the original run, and when I went back to re-watch I felt so bad for the way Lorelai shamed Rory for trying on a domestic role. So what if she had discovered that it pleased her to make a pot roast for someone else? Or if she had discovered she really did hate it? I saw it as a playful thing between Rory and Dean that Lorelai made a shameful event. It also kept Rory from actually reflecting on what she did and didn't enjoy about it away from Lorelai and Dean's opinions. Teen Rory is a girl Lorelai would bully if it wasn't her daughter. Adult Rory is Lorelai. It's honest, but a bummer.
so happy i'm not the only one who thinks rory was parentified by Lorelei it makes me sad cos sooooo many of her toxic behaviours are literally her mum's personality and ppl hate her sm for it.
Lorelai did her best and had good intentions, but yeah. She needed therapy and some serious reflection to disentangle herself from her toxic upbringing. Instead, she did what most of us do, and let her baggage come out in weird ways throughout her life. I wish we had seen the girls in therapy more, because the therapists they did talk to were SPOT ON about their issues. But they were too prideful and scared to do the inner work.
tbf, we underestimate how young Lorelai is to have an adult teenage daughter, it hits differently watching the show the same age as Lorelai (rather than Rory, like the first time) and realising how much responsibility that would be for me, no wonder she chafed and failed at points. Lorelai always has to do stuff too soon, before she is mature enough to shine. We forget that aspect of the pregnant single teenager trope; those choices are going to follow you around for life; Lorelai has to grow up with Rory as a fellow passenger.
I definitely re watch Gilmore girls during the fall😂😂 my mom and I would bond over our love for the show and watched every episode together when I was younger.
It's a perfect embodiment of the problem. The show has a good idea. Have lorelai and rory have a healthy relationship with food and unambiguously enjoy it. But then completely undermines that point with the characters themselves making fatphobic jokes.
it's soo bizarre, like they love food and talk about it all the time, but then if they saw a fat girl who also liked to eat a lot... they'd make fun of her? The math isn't mathing
It makes seven less sense when you think of how much they purportedly love Sookie. Like she's not skinny. She's beautiful and not skinny but that flies.. because they know her? They never to my memory comment on her weight or what she looks like. Is it because she's not a threat? Idk.
In the revival, Rory's selfishness (and, I suppose, sexism) didn't seem to be hidden like it was in the original series. I loved GG but found it refreshing that she was no longer presented as a hero in the end. She's just a person, for good or ill.
i have been recently rewatching and saw a scene which struck a nerve with me. It was where rory tries to comfort tristan and persuade him to go out with paris by saying how summer 'lacks substance' and isn't as interesting or ambitious as paris and its like what do you even know ab this girl ? she also talked ab the girl jess was dating as shallow or 'slutty' as well.
I love how you talk about it’s ok if you like cool girl like things and more girly things. Because at the end of the day women should be allowed to like whatever with feeling embarrassed or belittled for their interests
I think it was brave and open-minded of Rory to dress up as Donna Reed, who would represent something very alien to Rory. It's an experiment and understood as such, but she allows herself to explore it, despite Lorelai's ridicule
Agreed. I liked that she was open enough to dress up and even make pot roast and dip her toes in. It was also nice of her to do something solely for someone else's benefit. As a stay at home, I really chagrin at some of Lorelai's comments. Like, damn. We get it, despite being always made up with nice clothes and makeup and living in a big beautiful home, you're too cool to admit you put time into your appearance and you refuse to cook or clean. You meaning Lorelai. It's very aggravating because, so long as it isn't forced upon you, there's nothing wrong with putting yourself together for the day and taking care of your home for your own sake and your partner/family.
I need to make a video on why Logan was the absolute worst. The way he talked down to Marty, lost millions of dollars, made Rory doubt herself, ruined her graduation with the ‘all or nothing’, didn’t defend Rory at the horrible dinner with his parents. He’s the worst. At least Jess challenged her, encouraged her to write a book, get herself back to Yale and could bounce literary discussions back and forth. Logan was lazy and entitled.
I think when we see how Logan and his friends treat Marty and how Rory just defends them was the pivotal moment when Rory starts identifying with that social class. According to Jess, they used to make fun of rich ppl like that but now it's different bc she's turned into one of them.
Logan was the best he never talked down to Marty he was telling Marty he was good at his job his friends were disrespectful yes but Logan was never rude to Marty he lost millions of dollars, yes but that was mistake he made a bad decision and he did eventually face the consequences he never made rory doubt herself he pushed rory to be her best self and always reassured her that she was smart and beautiful and he defended her at his parents dinner he was fuming mad that they had said these things about her and up and left the dinner. He challenged rory. Yes so did jess but Jess was honestly such a shitty boyfriend he always took his anger out on rory and if you just watch the scenes of them together u can’t even tell jess cares about her. We the audience know jess cares about her because of the conversations he has with Luke or Lorelai. He needed to go away to grow up and understand himself and he didn’t need a gf while doing so. He was horrible at communication and just ghosted. Rory and jess would have made amazing friends they just wouldn’t work as a bf/gf.
Logan and Rory honestly had a much healthier relationship than Jess and Rory. Sure, they had their ups and downs and Logan certainly isn't perfect but at least Logan on the whole treated Rory with respect and tried to communicate. I remember that one episode where Rory is just waiting the whole time for Jess to call because they never made specific plans. Not to mention when he tried to assault her(she said no two or three times). Logan was entitled, yeah. But he could also discuss literary and economic theory even though it's not shown as much on screen. Logan also challenged her-think about when he said for her to go for the New York Times fellowship?-while also meeting her where she was at. He wasn't a fan of her dropping out, but he still let her make her own mistakes.
Not to mention Logan would always brush off Rory's concerns with "Look I'm sorry, ok?" Which honestly sounds like something you'd say to your sibling to get them to shut up and stop crying.
I don’t think they at all intended to blame Lindsey for Dean and Rory’s affair. Lorelei calls Rory out directly for it, it’s in the text. So does Lindsey’s mother. Rory is outed about it because she writes a letter to Dean breaking it off - and the fact that Lindsey found it is Deans fault. Even when the marriage falls apart and Dean and Rory get what a different show would frame as a happy ending, the relationship is poisoned by the way it started. I think the show blames Dean for manipulating and being dishonest to both Rory and Lindsey and it’s the audience who tries to pick one or the other woman to blame.
It's also important to remember the obvious sexism, like for example; the fact that Richard only validated Rory when she wanted to be a journalist, but when she becomes a part of the DAR and followd in Emilys footsteps, he felt like it wasn't good enough. Of course the DAR wasn't suited for Rory, but he still thought that being a "traditional wife" like Emily was worthless in camparison to what he did ("the man's job")
I just began my first rewatch too! Nothing wrong with acknowledging the faults in the show while still enjoying it's good traits and comfy vibes❤ I can't believe you don't have 50k yet! Congratulations in advance 🎉
The only thing about that was dean wasn’t forcing her to do that and instead of rory trying to fit in that mold, they should have had a serious conversation about their future bc it seemed like their values didn’t align
The FIRE Movement (Financial Independence Retire Early) had this infuriating thread a few years ago in which a lot of bros in their blogs and on podcasts bragged about getting their wives to stop "wasting money" on makeup, hair coloring and even haircuts ... like,STOP. Their masculine hobbies and values got a pass but strictly feminine interests were seen as worthless. To each HER own but my own tipping point was hearing the woman from The Frugalwoods, who only spent a few years in the traditional work force, give advice to two guys on a FIRE podcast about how to get their partners to be more like her and to stop wearing makeup and spending money on salon kind of stuff. I felt sick to my stomach.
I started watching GG for the first time recently as an adult and I’m glad I did bc I KNOW if I had watched this show in high school or Heaven forbid middle school, I would’ve resented myself bc I ate less than Rory and Lorelei and was so much bigger. I wouldnt have been able to stand how they drink black coffee (Rory doing it at 14) and eat takeout or burgers every day and look the way they do. Emily was right when she said that the Friday night dinner was the only healthy meal she got
Great video. I interpreted the Donna Reid episode as the two women pointing out how unfair the expectation of the happy animated perfect housewife is. And that they thought surely no woman actually enjoys this role to the extent that Donna Reid did. I remember growing up around that time and my mom told me that when I get a husband, he has to do equal share of the housework. I was shocked. No one had actually said to me “housework is a woman’s role”, but it was just what I picked up from the culture. At that time, feminism was still in its 3rd wave, and women were were still tackling things that seem very obvious to us today. It was still laying the groundwork back then and as a result didn’t have the luxury of exploring nuance in the way we can do now. Now, a lot of us have the understanding that if a woman wants to, of course she should be able to be a housewife. However because back then it was kind of a given that she was (even in the 2000s, just ask my mom) I think the refusal of the notion had to be more obvious.
Wow, I really appreciate your observations on the use of “pick me”. Love your stuff. Though as others have said, the example where Lorelai tries to decline the meeting of the headmaster, it’s Lorelai who actually had the plan to pick up the dry-cleaning etc. Mind you, a recurring theme later on is how many clothing items they have, so it doesn’t make any sense anyway, so it’s very deliberate from the writers.
Yes, I am so annoyed by that mistake! I am cutting it out of the video now. I was reading an online scripts from the show (I love reading scripts). And the one I read had a typo, so it had swapped Lorelai’s name with Rory’s. I have realised that I can only rely on rewatching the scene with my own eyes, even just for small interactions
If you ever get the itch to do another Gilmore review video, your thoughts on the classism in the show and how it divides or mirrors the relationships of the characters would be awesome to hear about
I watched Gilmore Girls as a teenager and enjoyed it. I watched some of it recently as a mom in my 30s and I was a bit horrified. I shouldn't be my son's best friend, he has a best friend who's his own age. I need to be his mom.
Love your videos but I disagree with a few points in this one! (I’m rewatching Gilmore Girls for like 3rd or 4th time right now, first watch when I was a preteen/early teen.) First point, I think Lorelei is an extremely functional and successful adult, but she reverts when she has to be involved with her parents’ world (ex. Chilton and Friday night dinners) because that’s where her trauma started and she’s never properly fit in. Second, from my perspective, the show makes it pretty clear that Rory and Dean’s affair isn’t good for either of them. Dean was in love with Rory when he married Linsey (bad), and Dean is always Rory’s backup because she consciously or subconsciously knows that he isn’t over her throughout the show. But Linsey is portrayed as sweet and loving, and I think it’s just a shitty situation of Dean marrying someone he shouldn’t have. Lorelei knows the affair is awful, and though she loves Rory, it’s clear that she’s disappointed in her. I also strongly disagree that Dean choosing Rory was an example of a guy picking the cool girl over the “every girl.” I think the characters are developed and nuanced enough for all sides to be seen without being able to generalize it. Watching the show this time around, I have so much sympathy for Linsey. That’s all for now, I definitely agree that both of them are textbook cool girls (but especially Lorelei).
I remember few moments from middle school in the early 2000s but I can remember this one almost verbatim. I was maybe 14 and I would get a shiny forehead for like 3 days before my period and eventually, I started using a bit of powder for that on those days. Other than that, I didn't use makeup much at that time, because I was inept (still cannot apply eye shadow to save my life) except for some mascara and it was neither here nor there in terms of wanting others to be aware of the fact that I am wearing it. But on one of those days when I had my little compact, I somehow mentioned it to my best guy friend and a girl from our class came up to me right after and literally said: "oh my god, why the heck would you ever do that?! guys are not supposed to know you wear stuff like that! No wonder you guys aren't dating!" I thought it was a joke at first because she said it so seriously but I couldn't match it up with any sort of societal rule I had learned at that time. He and I were one of those friend "couples" where everyone thought it surely must be more but it never was but even if we *had* been more, what would me showing him a compact have changed about our feelings for each other?! I think at that point I had internalized the "do not ever show you female hygiene products to any male or face unfathomable shame" rule but not showing a compact was new. That was the first time I got the "you have to wear makeup that looks natural so that guys think that's how you look naturally" speech from anyone. My mom was a child of the 70s and had wild eye shadow throughout the 80s and 90s. So having to "hide" that you're wearing makeup would not have occurred to me given what colorful displays I had witnessed in the 90s. It seemed wild and thankfully all my male friends seem to be pretty bewildered by that as well. It sucks that a 14 year old girl would even think that in the first place.
omg i never related to a comment so much before in my life. I’m a girl who likes to wear makeup( eyeshadow, diff colours and the more artistic side of it, as well as any other aspects) and I hate how in order to be liked by everyone (especially by boys) , I have to look like I have nothing on, which is kinda dumb and restricting to me. And if it looks like it, Poole would shame me for it. I really, REALLY, hate that. Guys expect you to wake up with natural flushed cheeks, no eye bags and coloured lips?!?! What is this?! No one looks like that naturally, we’re humans, not dolls! And if we want (or dont) to put on makeup we will! It’s our body, our decision!
@@aishanaga2958 The thing is, there are great people out there who do not judge people by their love or hate (or skill or lack thereof, as it is in my case) for make-up! The fun of it is what should matter to you and you can choose to go all crazy colors one day and wear nothing the next. And we can wear heels and dresses but also boots and jeans and none of that defines who we are. People fight so long for the freedom of everyone and the freedom to express ourselves and would then put others in a box because someone chose to actually make use of that freedom? It's all so silly and unnecessary.
I love addressing this so much! I think it’s necessary if you want to understand and appreciate the girls character arcs. Ironically GG’s cool girl vibes were different from the typical overly sexualized bombshell connotations cool girls came with. Yes they were attractive but they were classy about it. At the time nobody would put Megan Fox in the same trope as Rory. It was a night and day comparison at face value. I think that was Amy’s way of being brilliant. She said this is what sells and yes my girls are the girls everyone wants, and the main characters in all stories but not only are they not like other girls, they are so cool that they are not even like other cool girls. She created a meta cool girl form in them and I think it was rooted in that being their quirky role they played in stars hollow. All the townies have one and at the heart of it the girls are townies. It’s also their defense mechanism that makes them shine and special in the small pond of their town but immature and naive in the reality of the real world. Eventually even the cool girl mask gets old and the lack of accountability it fostered catches up with them. But I do think it was something the girls had to be. Like an alter ego or secret club they once needed to pull strength from. Cool girls stop being cool girls when they no longer care about being anything but themselves. You have to hate the mask you wear before you take it off. And usually that same mask was previously empowering and comforting. We just didn’t get the next chapter when they fully shed that part of them. I bet it’s there though, you know in the world where Rory is a mom she is healthy and organic all the way with that kid!
Yes girl we are here! ❤ I'm living for the GG content 😂❤ So glad you keep pointing out to their eating habits.. it bothers me so much and it got brushed off so easily when the show came out.
Girl I've been waiting for it, I love your deep dive into GG, wish you'd do one for Ginny and Georgia, it feels so much like GG on steroids or somethin😂
I feel that this video sometimes confuses the analysis of characterbehaviour with the analysis of screenplay - and directing choises that create a trope. Rory often acts bad, makes bad choices (because she's growing up, isn't perfect) But a lot of the times the show is not portraying this as cool girl behaviour. Like the Dean-Linddey debacle. Lorelei is very clear to Rory how bad she fucked up in a sensible way. For me is this an exemple that goes exactly against the cool girl trope. Because I think everybody who watches the show knows what Rory is doing wasn't cool (exept maybe teenagers who are in exact the same situation). And that's not a coincidence, the show was made to makes us think that and feel that way. Rory frames in making Lindsy the vilain, not the show. The show depictes a character who fucks up and doesn't have the self-insight to see she made a mistake. So I dont think this example fits the critique. On the other hand, the girls being almost perfect, but seemingly effortless and their eating like guys in a frathouse thing, the fatshaming of other women etc, thàt is an example of the trope and are a consequence of choices the makers made to 'deceive' us by wanting us to give that image. This is something we maybe did'nt notice years ago but now we do. That this "image" is sexist and potentioally harmful. But I believe a lot of "fuck-up's" of Rory are also depicted as such.
Rory changes herself a little every person she dated. Dean got her away from her best friend focused on him, she also became a little more obsessive over a boy automatically considering she tried to quit Chilton before starting it all for him. Jess got her to be more boy crazy almost to the point she was thinking about sex with him before he tried to force himself on her only to run off leaving her thinking she did something wrong. She also chose to cheat on Dean with him compromising her values even more. Logan, well then there is Logan. She drops out of college based on his father’s words, ready to give up for a while and party because Logan and the boys mention about the months they took off to party and she took it as a challenge to party longer. Yes, non of the situation are the boys faults but you can not say Rory is not more of a pick-me girl when she is willing to change herself a little more with each and every boy she dates. There are definitely more “pick-me” moments in the show over Lorelai’s attempt at fishing for whatshisface (the coffee shop owner she met.) I’m sorry if this at all came off as rude, never know on the internet when people read everything between the lines even if it is not there lol. I’ve probably watched Gilmore Girls six times over, the only show I’ve watched more is The 100 😅
Im old and I was watching GG when it was first aired and I think you missed that yes - Rory and Lorelei are imperfect but it was kind of the point. For example Dean and this dinner Rory made him - it was shown that it was not good to change for a men. The same some Lorelei things you are talking about - she is usually confronted with that her flaws and behaviors. Its not that they are showed "look how cool they are". So your perspective that it is portrayed like it is no problem I find quite problematic. It is life drama - so the main conflict is their behaviours. They even have a big fight about Rory sleeping with Dean. And also - some of Lorelei stuff are not "cool girl" things but "being oppose of high class" and "being working girl" things.
A lot of stuff that younger people might think of as Lorelei having "cool girl" tastes are simply a function of her being Generation X and liking the music she grew up with. She's not being a pick me because she likes Metallica. She's being a person who was a teen in the 80s. Rory might be accused of being a pick me but it's far more likely she adopted her mother's taste instead. (Also I think her music is influenced by Lane, who is a giant music snob but that's part of her character.)
Rory and Dean blamed Lindsey, but no one else did. The show clearly blamed Rory and Dean, by having Lorelai be mad at Rory for it and also by showing Lindsey's sadness.Sure, Lindsey is portrayed as a stupid housewife, but what i love about the writing in GG, is thar it's never one-sided when it comes to conflict. It very much allows Dean to be seen as an asshole.
When I was about 12, I tried to become partly "cool" by learning to play shooter video games (there was even a particular boy I was trying to win over with that). Luckily, I quickly realized that, first, I didn't like those video games and, secondly, no boy was worth so much effort.
OMG, tell me about it! 😭There's no way in hell a teenage boy would ever go to the same lengths! Took me a good while to figure that one out myself back then, but I'm all the happier to have come to this realization eventually. What good is it having your crush fall for you under false pretenses, u know? You'd be trapped having to feign a passion for something you don't really enjoy.
Thank you for touching on how the term "pick me" has become overused and can often be used misogynistically itself now it is also something I had noticed but felt alone in that observation.
The whole mother-daughter "best friends" dynamic was so disturbing. Your mom isn't your buddy, she's your mom. You only get one of those and that relationship is not a "girlfriends" relationship.
I feel like as a child this is absolutely true, but once you hit into adulthood and start branching out on your own as an adult it’s okay to have that kind of relationship. My mom was very very much my mom, but once I got older and more independent as an adult she is still my mom and still fits that role but she is more my best friend now.
My mom hated the show for years because of the fucked up mother-daughter dynamics it portrayed. After we had worked out some of our family issues, she watched it with me and my sister, and we had some REALLY good talks. It is such an interesting portrayal of generational issues among women. The pride, fear, and patterns of emotional abuse keeping the Gilmore women stuck was all SO real for us. I'm so glad we did what the Gilmore women didn't do-- self-reflection and extensive therapy.
@@Aelffwynnmy mom was the opposite. She saw Lorelei as ‘mom goals’, and I have a lot of memories growing up where she tried to make our dynamic that of Lorelei and Rory. Now that I’m older, she still tries for that, but it’s turned more into Lorelei and Emily 😅 she gets the Lorelei/Rory dynamic with my sister now
But remember Lorelai was only 16 when she had Rory and ofc she is naive young girl who had no idea how to raise or parent properly and did not have any help at all and thinking that her instincts worked made it took her advantage to be like that
At least when the kid is still a child being raised, yeah, parents aren’t meant to be friends. You can have a good and fun relationship, but there still needs to be a clear line in the sand about what the dynamic here is. In adulthood, though, go ahead and be besties haha
I found your account this week and I just finished the Gilmore Girls playlist right when this video came out. Thank you for making such interesting and well researched content!
I will always remember one scene in which Rory picked up an Elvis Costello record and very indifferently talked about it, her aim probably being to appear cool which I thought was extremely ridiculous because usually when your'e into something you show it and get emotional about it. However, that wouldn't have fit the kind of character the show wanted to portray. Sometimes the coolness really was over the top although overall I enjoyed watching the Gilmore Girls because it was so different from any other show I had seen before.
Yes it is! I just realised this. I often read through the scripts of the show after I watch, and the one I read had a typo 😭 so it said that it was Rory’s line. My mistake, I am going to edit that part out of the video now.
Yaaasssss would love a part 2! Because it’s been a loooong time but I remember it getting SO unhinged. My teenage brain thought the books were better until I’m reminded by videos like these the tv show actually did a lot better (besides playing Bonnie so dirty UGH)
The idea that Lorelei has to speak to the principal on Rory’s first day at Chilton seems kinda American to me. She already signed the documents, Rory is a student. Idk maybe that’s also a private school thing but I never experienced this when I was a pupil. And I changed schools a lot. My first school day was my first school day. I knew where to go and was shown to my class later on. I would be surprised too if I was Lorelei.
I'm the exact same age as Rory and had many similarities to her. It's taken me a very long time to realize how toxic the dominant culture of the cool girl was and how much it affected me at the time
So many great points. You have much knowledge. I am filled with thoughts. But FIRST I must re-watch cause this was background while working and I’m pretty sure I missed details on the points I want to comment on.
This was so great. I've been waiting for this exact topic for quite a while, I can't believe this is the first Cool Girl-GG deep dive! Extremely well-researched and thoughtful. I agree with like 95% of everything said. A couple alternate opinions - I think the Donna Reed episode was great character development for Rory because of the conversation between her and Dean where he was being a misogynistic dick and she said something like - it's not about wanting to take care of her family, it's about being expected to have the 7-course meal ready every night when he comes home, and looking perfect while cooking and cleaning. And then when she does the date evening for him and excitedly tells him about all she learned about Donna Reed. I think she DID enjoy doing that, and that she learned and grew in the process. The other tiny thing I wanted to say is regarding the first day at Chilton episode. It's actually Lorelai who rants about having had the whole morning planned, getting coffee and going to the drycleaners. It's a tiny thing and I'm not trying to be hypercritical - the reason I'm pointing it out is because, rather than demonstrating Rory's parentification (which you absolutely demonstrated through lots of other examples), it actually was a super relatable moment for Lorelai. One of the most relatable moments in the first several eps, i would say. Who among us HASN'T made a very reasonable plan and had the universe shit all over it, only to make us look like a big joke? 😂
I totally agree with that. Really good analysis. Thanks! Its shocking to review movies and series from when we grew up- even all those movies from the 90's when I was a child. The sexism there wow... and also the homophobia/ anti-queerness. As you said Gilmore Girls is still a softer case for the sexism- gosh there are so many movies and series from back then and even today which are just insane. As a child i didnt notice it- which shows how internalized I had had that. Terrible. (Regarding the homophobia comments in Gilmore girls I noticed: The term "gay" always used in a negative way by the heterosexual men.Really upset me to hear that.) Back to the sexism: Moreover, it is internalized sexism- that girls/ women were taught/internalized that doing supposedly "male" stuff (as u say everything male scented) makes them "cool". That being "female" would be "uncool". Its still like that in society unfortunately. (I want to stress that what is female and male is a societal concept of course). The whole: women must be like this and men like that- is unfair to both:"women are weak", "men are not allowed to cry". (though no doubt !!!while men also suffer from patriarchy, women have it the hardest !!!in patriarchy). Anyways really like your analysis- we can all learn from that and work on our internalized "isms". Last thing, I found something from the actor who plays Luke; the role Luke was actually also sexualized by the women in the city, incl Sookie and Lorelai; especially his "butt"; i noticed that while watching the show and also felt that this is not right; on the show one can see how "Luke" didnt like that he was being objectified and the women just ignored that and giggled. Disturbing really. I wouldnt call it sexism because its not the case that the women viewed him/ men as inferior because he was a man (versus whats happening on systemic level towards women, that there is sexism towards women- they were/ are seen as inferior) but it is definitely objectifying/ sexualizing him- and not taking him serious- and thats not okay. And then I found an article that the actor of Luke in fact really found it uncomfortable and disturbing, that this happened within "the roles" but also off set. "It was all about the butt, the butt, the butt, the butt," he continued. "When we weren't filming, we were sitting down - people were still talking about the butt, the butt, the butt. It was the most disturbing time I have ever spent on that set, and I couldn't wait for that day to be over." The actor said also said he was frustrated at himself for not speaking up back then but said that he didn't want to "make waves" with his colleagues on the series, which was brought back in 2016 for a revival miniseries with Netflix." ""It's as disgusting for women to objectify men as it is for men to objectify women, and it's as harmful," he said. "Just because it was 2003 doesn't mean it was OK. It's never OK, and I didn't feel comfortable doing it, and it [expletive] me off. And I never said anything, so I was angry at myself for never saying anything. But I had this job, and I didn't want to make waves and all that." www.hellomagazine.com/film/20220913150964/gilmore-girls-scene-scott-patterson-found-disturbing/?viewas=amp I want to emphasize: I dont (!!!) want to compare this with the systemic societal sexism towards women from back then/ today. I dont want to compare this with the horrible experiences that women had to endure in the film industry especially throughout history and even still today- where objectifying/ sexualizing women on the show/within the roles and off-set comments were "standard";and sexist behaviour was "standard"; it didnt even stop at "comments" there as we know- so so many known and unknown cases of actual sexual abuse etc at the set/ behind the scenes/ by regisseurs or co- actors ; it is horrible what was done to actresses "back in the days" and probably still can happen today. But even though I dont want to compare it- I just wanted to state the thing with the Luke actor Scott Pattersson- because thats also not okay that he was treated that way. And he was scared to say something- because he thought he wouldnt have been taken seriously or so.
I’m a bit late to this but about the first day at chilton, I think Lorelai’s clothes are really a comment about class: she desperately wants to be (and be seen as) apart from the “old money” type, and though it’s not actually the case (she still makes sure that Rory attends to this school) she wants to keep this facade, that she’s different from all that her parents represent..
it does seem like an endless cycle that we will never escape - it’s funny how the ‘clean girl’ aesthetic is a thing now that caters to the no makeup look which men have spent years saying they prefer but they don’t understand that this aesthetic uses a lot of products and costs so much money just like a regular face of makeup would??
I watched this when I was a teen and it wrapped when I was in college. I watched it again maybe 2 years ago in my 30’s and wowwww. 😮💨 Lorelai was an overgrown child. She was selfish. She believed the world revolved around her own happiness. She was entitled. And I know people will say, “No, she ran away from her rich parents to do her own thing!” Exactly. She ran away without telling them (granted, she was a teen) and she expected everyone to support her along the way. Where would she have been without being charming enough to garner everyone into helping her? The inn lady gave her a job and a place to live. Luke CONSTANTLY stepped in as her protector. And then Richard and Emily shelled out over $100,000 to pay for Rory to go to a fancy prep school because of course Rory is special and too good for public school. And we’re supposed to believe that Lorelai sucking it up to have a gourmet meal in beautiful surroundings once a week is adequate payment. Lorelai bullies Emily all the time. Emily can ask an innocent question and Lorelai jumps all over her with some sarcastic and mean remark. Rory was completely entitled. Everyone told her she was special her whole life and she ended up being some spoiled rich girl. She could have set her sights lower and gotten a full ride scholarship to a state school, but noooo that wasn’t good enough for special Rory. She had to go to Harvard… and then changed her mind to Yale. She couldn’t afford to go, so it’s a good thing she had rich grandparents who enjoyed spoiling her. Even then, Emily was thrilled to spend time with her doing the DAR stuff and that was also crapped on. And all of this privilege and money thrown on her education for what? For her to spend her 20’s and early 30’s having a mediocre career and being the secret side piece of a man who wanted to marry her in the first place. So Rory looked down her nose at marriage to Logan, but didn’t mind being his wh*re. Mmmmmmkay.
Thank you! Everyone defends Lorelai, saying that her parents were toxic but they were literally just being parents, making decisions they felt were right for their daughter to survive in life & their world. Overbearing yes, but they never hurt their daughter. Even Lorelai says this a few times in the series. She said they drove her crazy and they had standards she couldn't deal with. None of them are saints, they each have issues, but Lorelai was so disrespectful to them. And in cannon they talk about Lorelai driving to Stars Hollow, taking the basics (the car, stroller, clothes etc) with her and having 'nothing'....but those things were bought by her parents. And as a rich kid (particularly with Trix as a grandmother and Richard as her father) you're telling me she didn't get money every birthday or Christmas? She had money in her bank. She wasn't 'broke' as she said. She did end up budgeting but she was never broke. They also say she visited her parents on holidays, and they would never just not get them gifts. They refer to the presents. Baccarat candle sticks etc. Rory probably got baby clothes and a few other things (including money) from them at Christmas. And being rich, it wouldn't just be $20. So whatever they gave, they were still helping. I could go on but it bothers me that Lorelai is framed as never getting help but she probably did get financial help from her parents to some degree. Rich people though don't think $500 is a lot so it was probably something like that once a year etc. It's still help. And living in a shed sounds noble but in the middle of winter in Connecticut? It'd be snowing and there was no insulation. That's not something to be proud of. It's reckless as it could endanger baby Rory. So moving to that from the stable (but annoying) Gilmore residence was a horrible decision. If she really wanted to leave, why not get a job and save up for a year first? Have an apartment first then move. Don't endanger the child... I love the show but I have so many issues with Lorelai
They address the fact that Donna Reed was representing women who HAD TO do that and then later in the episode Rory shared that she’d researched Donna Reed and found out she produced her own show or something. I think you need a rewatch.
i know they said that, and that Rory acknowledged that she had learned more about Donna Reed, but the tone of the episode was still so confusing to me around the message they were trying to send, and if Rory was being sincere or not. Especially with her later actions towards 'home-maker' figures like Lindsay
@@SerenaSkybourne I think it’s a bit of a stretch to link something from such an early episode to such a later one. I completely agree that the masc-feminism of GG is grating and outdated but I think the specific DR thing you were talking about was resolved. I would however would have liked Dean to have bent a bit in it, it was like Rory did a whole lot of work for him to not even really comprehend in the end.
I agree! I saw it all as humorous reaction to how we react - and sometimes overreact -to older TV shows, a natural backlash etc. So I can laugh at it 😂 . To begin, Rory and Lorelai invited Dean over to watch the Donna Reed show - just to mock it in every way! I think the Gilmore girls are the ones that overreact to Dean not "playing his role" or joining in. Dean is not sexist, he expresses exactly what this video states... to stop mocking women for their choices! Then he realizes his audience and knows when to quit, shut up and quickly eat that salad he naively brought along with the Pizza (he won't make that mistake again, ha!) As for the whole dinner Rory did and how she dressed up, that was all in good fun in my eyes! Rory rethinks everything and finds a creative way to make light of everything. Part of the fun was watching Rory obsess over little details as she tries to surprise Dean with this dinner party for two! She and Dean talk it over and have good moments as well as teenage awkwardness, as neither are sure how to act. That is just part of the humor we all can relate to especially in your first real dating relationship.
I think the sexism in OTH had a lot to do with the creepy creator of the show. Have you listened to the podcast, “Drama Queens” with Sophia Bush, Hillarie Burton Morgan, and Bethany Joy Lenz? The podcast gives a lot of context to the things that were easily looked over in the early 2000s when the show aired.
The Gilmore girls don't like women, only in S07 do we see either of them interacting with more than one woman at a time in a wholly positive manner (but let's be real, those girls at Yale barely count as characters), every other time there is a clear tension or judgment. At Chilton, at work, at Yale, it doesn't matter - the girls are unable to hang out with multiple women in a positive context (even worse if they are, like you said, beautiful, smart, or, gasp, quirky!). Hell, Rory absolutely hates Logan's S07 colleague Bobbie, who is a Cool Girl, beautiful, intelligent, interesting, just a chill person; she's not a potential friend, she's a threat for existing near Logan. Hell, it's not just Lorelai and Rory who are Cool Girls, Paris and Lane also are, and they share the hatred for women. Side note, looking at the show and the revival, Rory is a baffling character as a whole - it's almost like a slowburn character assassination except I think she's just proof of a creator who doesn't realize her character is an asshole. The way Rory regressed over the course of all the episodes is really sad, and it's never addressed (because the show is not interested in examining anything deeply, it is often too shallow for it), so it just kind of exists - she's an unkind, selfish, entitled person who ends her storyline by becoming a mother, and like Lorelai before her, in her flaws, she will parentify her child because she's also ill-equipped to be a parent (and an adult). As for a topic you might consider talking about, if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion, how about how the show handles sexuality (yikes) and parenthood, and how it's shoved down every character's throat? By the end, there is barely anyone who's childless or single (I think Jess is the sole exception, but that's because he couldn't possibly be happy in a relationship or have a child, it would ruin him for Rory - narratively speaking; even Emily sort of maybe has a pseudo-boyfriend). While this may be just how most shows are, in some instances it's unnecessary - why the hell does Paris have multiple kids?? Why did Liz have a kid? Why have a storyline where Jackson refused to get a vasectomy and never told his wife thus leading to her becoming pregnant AGAIN? Hell, why did they saddle Lane with twins?? And most if not all of these kids… we barely see, so WHY.
@abbyabroad1892 Being married to Doyle and still being insecure are very Paris but the kids? That stupid house? They were all just gags with no payoff. Don't get me started on the fertility clinic stupidity - way to get a beloved character back just to use her as a plot device AND give her no humanity. She existed for that dumb storyline that was never going to lead anywhere, and that is it, and I guess to be unhappy because can't have a super successful, kickass, happy 30something running around, it would only undermine Rory (even Lane is used this way - yes she's happy in her life, but she's another adult not allowed to live a life that would take them away from being available to Rory).
I disagree that ASP doesn’t know Rory is an ass. I think there’s lots of groundwork laid for what happens in the revival all over the series. (How often does someone say her writing is mean?) I think Rory is very well written but she’s not supposed to be an entirely aspirational character. ASP’s sympathy seems to be more with Lorelei if you want to pick out a “good” character but none of the characters are either completely good or bad.
Wow. I remember the days where being girly was uncool. I thought that being boyish, as a girl, was a form of feminism. Yes, and no. The freedom to be boyish, if you wanted, was good. Degrading those who weren’t, was bad. It was so common to laugh at girly behavior. It was the cool tomboys, Paris Hilton esc girly girls who seemed shallow, & men were left alone.
great video! Where did you see Portman? The Opera? it seems to me that Gilmore Girls problems around female representation stem directly from the concept and the title of the show: trying to navigate between the teen drama (Rory's storyline) and the romantic sitcom (Lorelai's storyline); your comparison with Mean Girls is extremely interesting because, unlike Tina Fey who stuck to focusing on the female students, ASP seems to be prone to drifting from a subgenre to another : it's telling that this dichotome is most visible in the later seasons when Rory and Lorelai's arcs litterally split up. I'm still unable to decide if Rory's negative arc was planned ahead or if it happened because of the teen drama / coming of age dynamic - and Lorelai's arc suffers the most because the focus has become Rory, not the mother-daughter relationship. To be fair, making a show about a mother-daughter relationship is quite the challenge, considering that at the time the show aired - and even still today - it's still not a proper subgenre on its own, so it's relevant that they felt they had to pick from other subgenres tropes. Overall, I think that the main screenwriting takeaway from the show is that it's extremely difficult for a female screenwriter to escape the male gaze and the man-pleasing cool girl fantasy when writing female protagonists - a major issue to be found in fanfiction for example. It would be really interesting to try to sort which elements in the GG cool girl trope are actually female gazed fantasies - did we really need to have the boyfriends' admiration to their eating habits? How refreshing it would have been not to have them in the scenes!
The things you said about the cool girl trope in general seem to be almost exactly the same stuff that was said in the video about the cool girl trope by The Take. But the things you said about the GG was interesting and well done, thanks.
I really do enjoy your deep dives (they are very eye opening), please could you do a deep dive on one tree hill if you can. Keep up the interesting videos, thanks.
Boy, I never look gorgeous when I wake up from a nap to clean and do laundry. You must be the effortless cool beautiful girl! (JK, I know you’re complimenting Serena.)
Maybe I‘m wrong but this Video seems really disrespectful like shaming lorelai for having trouble managing her job and her daughter as a very young single mom is very disrespectful. That chilton episode just shows that it’s okay to not have it all together sometimes as a single mom and that you don’t always have to look perfect or appropriate in a humerous way. I also like that the main characters like Rory, Lorelai and Luke don’t care about gender specific things and what other people think. And why do you assume that sooki and Lane are no potential threat? Why would you even assume that women who are friends always have that kind of competition ? The Gilmore girls just do the things they like without caring about the gender rolls like that dancing competition and then this whole running a business thing and wanting to achieve something which was/is hard as a woman (like a career in journalism) because of the prejudices of society. This isn’t about wanting to be different than stereotypes of women but to show that there are no gender specific goals and to show that women are individuals with different dreams and not just the stereotypical one. I don’t like shaming stay at home moms like Emily and I don’t like it when it’s done in the show but attacking someone because they don’t want that stereotypical life as a woman and being resentful towards this is no better in my opinion.
As a man, I can only comment from the perspective of an outsider, but my love of Gilmore Girls has always stemmed from just how flawed and realistic these people were. Yes it's a bit of a fantasy, but neither Loralai nor Rory should be seen as perfect, as they were both very flawed. The biggest problem I have with the sexism argument against Gilmore Girls is their lack of talking about the periods. I know that would largely alienate the males in the audience, but censoring such an important aspect of being a woman simply so it doesn't offend the delicate males is ridiculously sexist.
The way people treated them even with their diet is also wayyyyy different from how someone who doesn’t present as “effortlessly feminine” would be treated. If they were bigger bodied, the “awe” would be more realistically judgement and criticism.
Hey Serena, when you discuss One Tree Hill, could you talk about: 1. The slut-shaming of Brooke Davis from the first time she "snuck" into the back of Lucas' truck. 2. The lack of consequences Nathan faced for terrorizing Lucas for most of the first season. 3. Peyton's tendency to play the victim. 4. Haley having an emotional turned physical affair with Chris Keller while she was married 5. Lucas constantly being labeled as the "villain" even though Dan was a freaking MURDERER.
it's an interesting take that their refusal to eat healthy is because they're "not like other girls" when the only characters who have expressed concern about their eating habits are men. Think Michel's dieting, Luke's repeated criticism of their habits, the whole thing with Richard and his insistence that Lorelai eat grapefruit and with criticizing them ordering a lot of Chinese food, Dean buying a salad, Max feeling disbelief at their eating ice cream, etc etc. I feel like it is the men who guilt trip them about their eating with health in mind - when Emily does it, it's more because of the "low-class" angle than the poor nutrition. Could this not be viewed as more of a "my body, my choice" theme than a "not like other girls" theme?
Hey; great video. I would love to see a video about how feminism manifests in the show/the positive ways womanhood is portrayed in GG:) Have a nice day
It's sad that women get put into a category so often, even by other women. When I had tiktok I saw a lot of videos about it as well. Most of the videos I saw where actually made by women and made fun of women who simply wear makeup, don't wear makeup, who like pumpkin spice lattes and Taylor Swift or who are 'emo' / alt. Labelling real women as 'manic pixie dream girls' or 'pick me girls' does nothing more than make women who have similar preferences or traits to those assosiated with these labels self conscious, and perpetuate the idea that no woman is ever nuanced or complicated. I'm only a teenager, but I've been made to feel insecure by these trends before, even though they are often framed as progressive. From what I've seen, it's very rare to see men being mocked in the same way, sure we have 'nice guys' but many of the traits assosiated with that label are negative, and men are hardly ever judged so harshly just because they happen to have one thing in common with these tropes. You can see that in the time Gilmore Girls was made, being a 'cool girl' was seen as feminist. But nowadays, it's almost as if the opposite is true. If you dislike feminine or unpopular things, you're labelled as a mysogynistic 'pick me girl.' I am aware that many of these negative tropes are assosiated with putting other women down, and that's why it's so normalised- it's okay to make fun of something sexist. But by assigning preferences or attributes to these tropes, we are doing nothing more than putting other women down under the guise of feminism. Sorry if this was kind of ranty, I'm not very good at structuring my thoughts lol. I loved this video, you had some great thoughts on the show that I hadn't considered before!
Don't apologise for ranting, you hit the nail on the head. It's exactly that. Nothing we ever do as women will never not be picked apart by either men (or by other women as proxy). It's just par for the course and it's absolutely the worst when it comes to teenage girls. I sincerely wish we can leave all this pretty bullshit behind us one day.
Btw, great video and also you have a really good fall outfit, Serena! And you look very cute in it, hon! The pattern, too, is nice! Love the design! Looks really gorgeous! I love it! And what a really amazing way to swing into fall as well! By watching the OG coffee/latte drinking-to show, Gilmore Girls, the show that also started the "cool girl" trend in entertainment media that we see today and also popularized it! And love your red hair, too! You're very cute here in this video, babe! Also, you're a cool girl yourself, too, you know! Especially after covering this topic, you'll be even cooler than you already were, Serena!
Actually in the Donna Reed episode Rory explains in the end that she actually enjoyed herself cooking the dinner and that she did some research on Donna Reed. She wasn't trying to please Dean. She wanted to explain that she overreacted and that after doing more research she saw more to it. It isn't implied that she needed to change herself to please Dean and this is made clear by Dean too and he says that he doesn't want her to be like that and he wants her to be as she is. He was just saying that that kind of woman is not necessarily bad. So they agreed to that in the end, even acknowledging the mysogeny of only allowing women to be like that, which is what Rory was trying to say. But I agree with you on the rest of the points made. The general portrayal of other female characters is not that good.
3 minutes in and I’m like men are exhausting 😂 I feel like so many times we forget how many female characters were written by men, through a males perspective. It’s so common we forget!
Im not sure if Charmed is up your alley, but since its October can you do a video about charmed? I rarely see anyone my age talk about it. + October is the 25th year anniversary month. + its about witches which is perfect for Halloween
20:55 - As someone who did ballet for ten years, you're supposed to look effortless but you're also supposed to be really precise, the audience isn't supposed to see the imperfections but they also can't see that it's hard, so while his argument has SOME merit its also bullshit
I can see how the trope comes up in Black Swan, but ballet, is tremendously difficult and is supposed to look effortless on stage. The director cast Nina for being more technically excellent, but his notes/comparison to Lily would’ve made Nina a better dancer had she had the mental capacity (stunted by her narcissistic mother) to believe in herself and her capabilities and revel in that. That’s where the lightness comes in, confident.
how would lorelai know that she's supposed to go in and meet the principal? that's not a normal school thing. she didn't seem to know. did no one tell her? charleston and emily are to blame for coercing lorelai into removing her coat. but she also could have just sat down without taking off her coat and without saying anything about it. she also could have worn slightly dirty clothes rather than wear tiny shorts and cowboy boots (???). but we're just supposed to accept the tv logic that she had no other clothes available. missing her alarm (or it not working or whatever) is just bad luck that could happen to anyone. it doesn't make lorelai irresponsible.
I watched first five full episodes but couldnt handle it anymore. Love the setting of the show, its beautiful and the small town is something a lot of people idolize now
Lorirorifending here: some women can actually eat lot without gaining weight. Rory might inherited it from lorelei and L. from Emily who is also slim considering her age and especially since her comfort food seems to be alcohol. Also as an European who wondered how often they all eat out or had food delivered (not only the Gilmores), even students who usually can't afford eating out on regular basis I thought it to be an American thing, only difference being that at least they were honest about food being their way of comfort and celebrating life events and that's what made them "cool". How many women are portrayed in movies complaining about food all the time and then when alone at home binge eating pizza etc. and feeling guilty about it? So that's what I found refreshing about them celebrating food. Also they are busy and always in movement and leave plates half eaten ( you should stop when you are not hungry anymore) and they do have their occasional veggies at Emily's 😂
This video is making me realize that i'm probably perceived like a cool girl. Im a bit more masculine, genuinely dont care about makeup or fashion, and i am unfortunately somewhat conventionally attractive. But here's what really drives it home: i do come off as very aloof and unattached. Now, while that might make guys perceive me as cooler and more attractive, the funny thing is im GENUINELY 100% uninterested in them, and actually have a strange relationship to womanhood because i'm a lesbian and probably nonbinary lol. i seriously dont want these guys to fall all over me, I literally just want to be their friends and be perceievd as a totally platonic mate. but it has been a constant in my life that they do want some kind of relationship with me. whereas other far more beautiful, kinder and INTERESTED women do not get the attention i get. I guess men might perceive the fact that i dont care as like "wow its so cool how she's not needy or clingy or high strung", but the truth is i really, genuinely 100% dont care. And once you reject their advances, the fallout is so bad, you wind up losing another friend. :( OR once they get a girlfriend, they never treat me with the same interest or engagement in my friedship because that never was their end goal with me. The way society perceives those of us that are, or are perceived as, women is realy harmful. Girls: do whatever you want. Men will project their fantasies on us anyway. Be yourselves, dress however you want, take pride in your interests and caring is a strength not a weakness 💖
my one complaint per se is everyone is so demanding of Dean. So many Vlogs of GG expect him to have these mature progressive thoughts like he is a 30-something.. he's a high school kid. He's not going to be that aware or deep. Teens have an instant gratification mindset. Everything is in the prism of themselves first. I wish the fandom would be more understanding of him.
I feel like the majroity of us who grew up alongside the series was waaaay more understanding of him just a couple of years ago. It seems like people have a hard time contextualiszing the things they see whenever they rewatch the show nowadays. I mean, it's fun to rewatch your fave series and nitpick all the potentially toxic things in it -- I do it all the time as well. But you're 100% right, he simply behaved like a typical 16/17yo boy.
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Hey everyone! As a few of you have mentioned about the first day at Chilton, I said in this video that Rory was planning on going to the dry-cleaners. I realised after posting it that in fact Lorelai made this comment, not Rory. I am now editing the video to remove that little section. It's quite an insignificant thing and my point about Rory being parentified is something I still 100% stand by, as many of you have agreed it is incredibly obvious. But sorry if my comment confused anyone! 💖
When I was noting down the girls' dialogue in that specific Chilton scene, I read through an online script, which was actually very fun, but unfortunately it had an error with the girls' names. I thought I was being more time-efficient and factual, but in the future I will have to play every scene through like I would normally do :)
Also, one of you said that the clothes scene is confusing, which I agree with- because Lorelai has nothing to wear and needed to get the dry-cleaning, yet a recurring theme later on is how many clothing items they have 🤔
I was just working out how to let you know this privately lol ! ❤
@@thesensationaladventuresof1150 that's so sweet of you! But it's ok, just an honest mistake
I disagree. The girls doesn't have good female friendships. Especially in the case of Lorelai. Lorelai friendship with Suki is at time so problematic. The way she patronize Suki for daring criticizing Lorelai relationship with Max. Or the way she talk down on her for their project. They are so many times Lorelai uses passive aggressive comments to Suki, and it amazed me that Suki is still always there for her. The scene that send me through the roof was the baby baptism. Who does that?!? On several occasions, the show demonized motherhood by either, shaming women for having kids (Suki) or by disparaging women who have children and leave because of a mental breakdown (Sherry). This, considering the amount of time men do it. If I had to think of an episode that frustrating me the most was the one where Rory is accepted to Yale, Harvard and all her other choices, while Paris was rejected. The implication behind it was basically shaming Paris for 'loosing' her virginity. To the point that they had Lorelai, a hard core feminist, saying that she had the 'good' child! If this was a joke I didn't find it funny!
@@SerenaSkybourne totally get an honest mistake! I prefer to receive critique suggestions and corrections privately myself, so I try to do the same for others where possible :) but then I saw the pin and was like aha everything is under control lol I know, too, sometimes when fans pick up a mistake especially on something they feel is criticising their fandom, they can be a bit overly protective, so I didn't want you to get piled on too. 🩷
you are so thoughtful it's actually so heartwarming. I don't know many people that would think twice about something like this or approach it in this way @@thesensationaladventuresof1150
Growing up is realizing the real Cool Girls are the ones who are secure with who they are and what they love, and encourage others to do the same.
PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!! 💝💖💗💕💟
but that is the point of "Cool Girls" is not what they are authentically out here doing what they love, but that they are specifically cultivating themselves towards a male fantasy quote: "And the Cool Girls are even more pathetic: They’re not even pretending to be the woman they want to be, they’re pretending to be the woman a man wants them to be."
I hated that Lindsey was blamed for dean cheating on her that was so stupid to me dean made the choice to betray his first wife
JUSTICE FOR LINDSEY 😂
@wintonic dean constantly put Lindsey down he always find fault with her he never said it the words but to me the way he treated speaks volumes
I kinda loved this cause Rory and Dean fought so hard to make the argument Lindsey was the problem but no matter what they said it held no weight to the reality of how wrong they were. Everyone in and outside the show just sat there and saw them for the clowns they were
@@angelaholmes8888 or lindsay had genuine problems and dean just didn't handle it properly
@@bbrenduhh yep they were both clowns 🤡🤣😂
What I never liked about the show - is portrayal of eating habits. We are constantly told how much Lorelai and Rory eat, and especially MEN in the show are impressed by it, but actually - they never show us that they eat a lot. They always leave half full plates, or walk away from Luke's without finishing the food and etc... I think this is a very "cool girl" thing: they can eat more than a man, never exercise and still look conventionally beautiful, while the rest of us have to be on a diet.
It may be a 'cool girl' thing, or it may just be a filming thing. These are definitely not the first takes of any of these scenes. It's probably easier on the actors and film crew to leave a half-full plate and film a scene at a table, but where Lauren and Alexis (Lorelai and Rory respectively) don't have to keep eating for multiple takes.
Like, I do understand where you're coming from with the 'cool girl' trope as it comes to eating habits, but there is probably another reason to it
@@katelyntaylor7384 That's a good point. I learned about the horrors of eating while filming from Office Ladies (the podcast with Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey of The Office), and those were just smalllll amounts of food compared to what they eat on GG. It may have all been very unintentional, the whole leaving the food behind; it must have been tough for the actors to be on a show where their characters have such a love of food!
@@Sarah-mh5ez Yeah. I also see your point, the cool girl trope, where they eat junk food, eat more than the guys, never actually exercise and yet are always gorgeous. With the diets the Gilmore girls have and the habits they have, they should not look like they do.
I also think it is bul*mia coded, as it is common for people with bul*mia to eat big amounts of food right before purging. And it's not just Gilmore girls, a lot of 'cool girl' personas show this behavior.
Right! I gained so much weight when I was watching the show because I thought I would be cool if I was just eating trash. ... 😖
I loved Gilmore Girls back in the day but what always bothered me was that they potrayed it as cool and sophisticated to be a big fan of old movies and old bands. And if a character liked more modern stuff, it was potrayed as "too mainstream" or "so lame" or "not unique". You can be unique and still love modern movies and hate old movies.
I consider myself as a classic girly woman. While I loved "male subjects" at school (I HATE that this prejudice exists and don't agree with it) like maths and chemistry at school and work in a male dominated area (lawyer), I love dresses, make up, curling my hair, mani/pedis, massages, brunch etc. And sometimes Gilmore Girls made me feel like I am less worth than Lorelei and Rory in the eyes if men because of that.
everything they do is ✨edgy✨
Lorelai and Rory being hipsters before it was a thing 😂
Lorelai and Rory are literally portrayed as loving all those things AND going into (at the time and currently) female dominated professions (hospitality and journalism/writing). I think you watched a different show.
@@christam5162 and I think it is quite presumptuous to assume that a different view/impression of a show means that one's own impression is the right one and the impressions/views of others who don't agree are automatically so wrong that you can only conclude that they didn’t properly pay attention. I absolutely disagree with your statement bur would never act like your impression is wrong and "you apparently watched a different show". My impression of Gilmore Girls was always that woman who love "feminine stuff" without loving old movies/old books/old bands (= who aren't edgy ir different at the same time) are not as "cool" as Lorelai and Rory. Sorry to burst your bubble but it is entirely possible that 2 people watch a show and have a different view of it and interpret the storyline differently. Doesn't mean one has the "right" impression and the other one is so wrong that it is almost silly.
I felt the same, not only by Gilmore Girls, but by most media I consumed as a young kid. Girly girls like me never got any positive representation, we were all evil or stupid
I really felt bad for Lindsey she sorta reminds me of natasha from sex and the city she didn't deserve to get treated like that by dean or rory
The only difference was of course that Carrie was the blond, can't have a man marry a blond and cheat with a blond, that's ridiculous.
Now I'm having a nightmare scenario of picturing GG with narration from the girls. If what they say is sometimes awful, what they would be thinking would be horrendous lol
@@OffKiraDeux "And just like that, I decided he was "my Dean" again." - Rory
Lindsey was Dean’s desperate attempt to move on from Rory and was probably never a very good husband to her as a result…he was just biding his time in hopes Rory would see he was actually the man for her. But he botched it horribly, convinced Rory he practically had divorce papers in hand, and then she was blamed for his cheating. Rory didn’t respect Lindsey’s emotional property, but she didn’t have a contract with Lindsey, Dean did. He was responsible for holding up his end of the marriage agreement and he fkd it. And how dumb do you have to be to leave a letter like that in your jacket when your wife does the laundry?? His biggest mistake was getting married in the first place, he knew full well he didn’t love Lindsey and should have just dated her; it’s a lot easier to break up with someone you aren’t married to (duh). Dumb moves all around!
the casual sexism in Gilmore Girls reminds me of memories of talking to aunts, teachers, older women in general when I was younger that were intelligent and that I really respected, but can now see were very judgmental of all girls who were not their ideal- e. g. girls who used crop tops and short shorts, girls who were obsessed with boys, girls who didn't care for school... and I feel very glad that I was able to reflect on that and outgrow it. Isn't it amazing how, looking back, young women had all of society pushing to divide us? I love Gilmore Girls, but I am so happy we evolved from that
I agree with you on all of it. Gilmore Girls is my number one fave show of all time, but I hate the fat shaming and hating other women that aren't them or Sookie or Lane. And also, with OTH, they had a very sexist perverted creator. Who wouldn't let Brooke and Peyton be a thing or have Peyton with Anna. But that's a whole other story. Hope you're enjoying your time in Paris!
Same same! It’s my ultimate rewatch/comfort show but oh BOY this most recent rewatch has been….enlightening to say the least. I’m picking up on so much bullshit I didn’t before , pertaining to fat shaming and other weird jokes that leave a bad taste in my mouth! Just like she said, I’d like to think it’s just a sign of the time but stiiiilll it aged so badly. And considering it’s even in the Netflix reboot …. Might just be the writers showing their true colors 🥹😬
This is wonderful. As a 65 year old woman, it is fascinating to think back on the decades I've been sentient, and see the types of things that were simply part of the air we breathed that are being exposed and challenged now.
Great analysis and kudos in particular for calling out Rory's horrible 'fat thighs' comment. Funny how she was so quick to judge a fellow student on something so superficial, yet didn't see a problem with the 60-something professor dating her barely legal friend....
Btw am I the only who found it ridiculous that in the first Chilton episode, Lorelei seriously didn’t have anything else to wear? 😅 even if her nice clothes weren't available (I think they were at the dry cleaning?), she must have had other clothes than what she actually wore 😅
But then she wouldn't be the cool mom, so there's that 😅
Right?! It's pointed out and out throughout the series how many clothes they have yet she had nothing else to wear?! Also, Rory and Lorelai swap clothes all the time. She could have grabbed some jeans and a decent top of Roy's to make herself look normal.
She’s so cool that she doesn’t have clothes; she’s more go with the flow than other girls
No, rory should have mentioned wanting her to meet charleston before they left the house
@@TheMarkmcr I don't care that she met the principle and Rory didn’t tell her before that she wants her to come with her. It is the fact that she wore this outfit at all. Honestly, she couldn't come up with another outfit? Yeah eyerone can wear what they want but this seemed sooo forced, like they wanted to portray her as the cool mom sooo much. And Yes she wore a coat so most of the time people couldn't see the outfit but for example, you could still see the Cowboy boots. So seriously, she didn’t even had other shoes??? Nothing against Cowboy boots but the whole idea that she couldn't come up with a different outfit and different shoes even though they have so many is silly. And btw I would never expect my teenage child to tell me she wants me to meet the principle, if I drive her to the school like Chilton I at least take the possibilty into consideration that I could have to walk her into school and/or meet the principle.
They mention a lot how Rory borrows Lorelai's clothes so we're supposed to believe even Rory didn't have something more appropriate?
We also see Lorelai with her dry cleaning later... and she's clearly not carrying around her entire wardrobe, so... she fully chose that outfit (that, looking at the whole show... is really out of character to begin with).
I think Rory being "parentified" makes sense. Lets remember that Lorelai was 16 when she had Rory. She wasn't through being a kid, when she had a kid. Plus, Lorelai never had a "normal" childhood either. Emily and Richard forced her to behave a certain way; which prompted her to act rebellious and leave home not long after having Rory.
The funny thing too about the Donna Reed episode was that Lorelai makes fun of this idea of Donna being 'virtuous' but that's exactly what she wants Rory to be. The idea of her daughter having sex makes her feel like she's failed and gives her anxiety. Meanwhile, if you ever watch the Donna Reed Show, it almost always ends implying that Donna and her husband are about to have sex. Usually with her being the one instigating it.
I somehow never saw that episode in the original run, and when I went back to re-watch I felt so bad for the way Lorelai shamed Rory for trying on a domestic role. So what if she had discovered that it pleased her to make a pot roast for someone else? Or if she had discovered she really did hate it? I saw it as a playful thing between Rory and Dean that Lorelai made a shameful event. It also kept Rory from actually reflecting on what she did and didn't enjoy about it away from Lorelai and Dean's opinions.
Teen Rory is a girl Lorelai would bully if it wasn't her daughter. Adult Rory is Lorelai. It's honest, but a bummer.
so happy i'm not the only one who thinks rory was parentified by Lorelei
it makes me sad cos sooooo many of her toxic behaviours are literally her mum's personality and ppl hate her sm for it.
Lorelai did her best and had good intentions, but yeah. She needed therapy and some serious reflection to disentangle herself from her toxic upbringing. Instead, she did what most of us do, and let her baggage come out in weird ways throughout her life. I wish we had seen the girls in therapy more, because the therapists they did talk to were SPOT ON about their issues. But they were too prideful and scared to do the inner work.
tbf, we underestimate how young Lorelai is to have an adult teenage daughter, it hits differently watching the show the same age as Lorelai (rather than Rory, like the first time) and realising how much responsibility that would be for me, no wonder she chafed and failed at points. Lorelai always has to do stuff too soon, before she is mature enough to shine. We forget that aspect of the pregnant single teenager trope; those choices are going to follow you around for life; Lorelai has to grow up with Rory as a fellow passenger.
Who else is watching Gilmore Girls again for Fall? 🍂🍂🙋♀🙋♀ The vibes are immaculate
I have already started my rewatch 😊
I honestly never stop watching it, like it's on an eternal rotation and I'm watching at least a couple of episodes each month throughout the year🙈
I definitely re watch Gilmore girls during the fall😂😂 my mom and I would bond over our love for the show and watched every episode together when I was younger.
Way ahead of ya and already on season 6 hehehehe
It's a perfect embodiment of the problem. The show has a good idea. Have lorelai and rory have a healthy relationship with food and unambiguously enjoy it. But then completely undermines that point with the characters themselves making fatphobic jokes.
it's soo bizarre, like they love food and talk about it all the time, but then if they saw a fat girl who also liked to eat a lot... they'd make fun of her? The math isn't mathing
It makes seven less sense when you think of how much they purportedly love Sookie. Like she's not skinny. She's beautiful and not skinny but that flies.. because they know her? They never to my memory comment on her weight or what she looks like. Is it because she's not a threat? Idk.
In the revival, Rory's selfishness (and, I suppose, sexism) didn't seem to be hidden like it was in the original series. I loved GG but found it refreshing that she was no longer presented as a hero in the end. She's just a person, for good or ill.
i have been recently rewatching and saw a scene which struck a nerve with me. It was where rory tries to comfort tristan and persuade him to go out with paris by saying how summer 'lacks substance' and isn't as interesting or ambitious as paris and its like what do you even know ab this girl ? she also talked ab the girl jess was dating as shallow or 'slutty' as well.
hahahahahaha rightttttt
Yeah, she was slutty indeed. It is okay to have standards.
I love how you talk about it’s ok if you like cool girl like things and more girly things. Because at the end of the day women should be allowed to like whatever with feeling embarrassed or belittled for their interests
I think it was brave and open-minded of Rory to dress up as Donna Reed, who would represent something very alien to Rory. It's an experiment and understood as such, but she allows herself to explore it, despite Lorelai's ridicule
Agreed. I liked that she was open enough to dress up and even make pot roast and dip her toes in. It was also nice of her to do something solely for someone else's benefit. As a stay at home, I really chagrin at some of Lorelai's comments. Like, damn. We get it, despite being always made up with nice clothes and makeup and living in a big beautiful home, you're too cool to admit you put time into your appearance and you refuse to cook or clean. You meaning Lorelai. It's very aggravating because, so long as it isn't forced upon you, there's nothing wrong with putting yourself together for the day and taking care of your home for your own sake and your partner/family.
I need to make a video on why Logan was the absolute worst. The way he talked down to Marty, lost millions of dollars, made Rory doubt herself, ruined her graduation with the ‘all or nothing’, didn’t defend Rory at the horrible dinner with his parents. He’s the worst. At least Jess challenged her, encouraged her to write a book, get herself back to Yale and could bounce literary discussions back and forth. Logan was lazy and entitled.
So true, I hated Logan, tbh
I think when we see how Logan and his friends treat Marty and how Rory just defends them was the pivotal moment when Rory starts identifying with that social class. According to Jess, they used to make fun of rich ppl like that but now it's different bc she's turned into one of them.
Logan was the best he never talked down to Marty he was telling Marty he was good at his job his friends were disrespectful yes but Logan was never rude to Marty he lost millions of dollars, yes but that was mistake he made a bad decision and he did eventually face the consequences he never made rory doubt herself he pushed rory to be her best self and always reassured her that she was smart and beautiful and he defended her at his parents dinner he was fuming mad that they had said these things about her and up and left the dinner. He challenged rory. Yes so did jess but Jess was honestly such a shitty boyfriend he always took his anger out on rory and if you just watch the scenes of them together u can’t even tell jess cares about her. We the audience know jess cares about her because of the conversations he has with Luke or Lorelai. He needed to go away to grow up and understand himself and he didn’t need a gf while doing so. He was horrible at communication and just ghosted. Rory and jess would have made amazing friends they just wouldn’t work as a bf/gf.
Logan and Rory honestly had a much healthier relationship than Jess and Rory. Sure, they had their ups and downs and Logan certainly isn't perfect but at least Logan on the whole treated Rory with respect and tried to communicate. I remember that one episode where Rory is just waiting the whole time for Jess to call because they never made specific plans. Not to mention when he tried to assault her(she said no two or three times).
Logan was entitled, yeah. But he could also discuss literary and economic theory even though it's not shown as much on screen. Logan also challenged her-think about when he said for her to go for the New York Times fellowship?-while also meeting her where she was at. He wasn't a fan of her dropping out, but he still let her make her own mistakes.
Not to mention Logan would always brush off Rory's concerns with "Look I'm sorry, ok?" Which honestly sounds like something you'd say to your sibling to get them to shut up and stop crying.
this is so off topic but i just rewatched the scarlett johansson clip at 3:57 and why is she so attractive when she's fighting people 😭😍
she's seriously hot!
Have you ever watched a show called the good wife starring julianna margolis 🤔
I don’t think they at all intended to blame Lindsey for Dean and Rory’s affair. Lorelei calls Rory out directly for it, it’s in the text. So does Lindsey’s mother. Rory is outed about it because she writes a letter to Dean breaking it off - and the fact that Lindsey found it is Deans fault. Even when the marriage falls apart and Dean and Rory get what a different show would frame as a happy ending, the relationship is poisoned by the way it started. I think the show blames Dean for manipulating and being dishonest to both Rory and Lindsey and it’s the audience who tries to pick one or the other woman to blame.
It's also important to remember the obvious sexism, like for example; the fact that Richard only validated Rory when she wanted to be a journalist, but when she becomes a part of the DAR and followd in Emilys footsteps, he felt like it wasn't good enough. Of course the DAR wasn't suited for Rory, but he still thought that being a "traditional wife" like Emily was worthless in camparison to what he did ("the man's job")
I just began my first rewatch too! Nothing wrong with acknowledging the faults in the show while still enjoying it's good traits and comfy vibes❤
I can't believe you don't have 50k yet! Congratulations in advance 🎉
16:32 YES! The whole idea of feminism has always been to create CHOICE not force women to do one thing or the other!
The only thing about that was dean wasn’t forcing her to do that and instead of rory trying to fit in that mold, they should have had a serious conversation about their future bc it seemed like their values didn’t align
As a real life ultra feminine girl this stereotype has lead people to think I was either stupid or mean
The FIRE Movement (Financial Independence Retire Early) had this infuriating thread a few years ago in which a lot of bros in their blogs and on podcasts bragged about getting their wives to stop "wasting money" on makeup, hair coloring and even haircuts ... like,STOP. Their masculine hobbies and values got a pass but strictly feminine interests were seen as worthless. To each HER own but my own tipping point was hearing the woman from The Frugalwoods, who only spent a few years in the traditional work force, give advice to two guys on a FIRE podcast about how to get their partners to be more like her and to stop wearing makeup and spending money on salon kind of stuff. I felt sick to my stomach.
I started watching GG for the first time recently as an adult and I’m glad I did bc I KNOW if I had watched this show in high school or Heaven forbid middle school, I would’ve resented myself bc I ate less than Rory and Lorelei and was so much bigger. I wouldnt have been able to stand how they drink black coffee (Rory doing it at 14) and eat takeout or burgers every day and look the way they do. Emily was right when she said that the Friday night dinner was the only healthy meal she got
Great video. I interpreted the Donna Reid episode as the two women pointing out how unfair the expectation of the happy animated perfect housewife is. And that they thought surely no woman actually enjoys this role to the extent that Donna Reid did.
I remember growing up around that time and my mom told me that when I get a husband, he has to do equal share of the housework. I was shocked. No one had actually said to me “housework is a woman’s role”, but it was just what I picked up from the culture.
At that time, feminism was still in its 3rd wave, and women were were still tackling things that seem very obvious to us today. It was still laying the groundwork back then and as a result didn’t have the luxury of exploring nuance in the way we can do now.
Now, a lot of us have the understanding that if a woman wants to, of course she should be able to be a housewife. However because back then it was kind of a given that she was (even in the 2000s, just ask my mom) I think the refusal of the notion had to be more obvious.
Wow, I really appreciate your observations on the use of “pick me”.
Love your stuff.
Though as others have said, the example where Lorelai tries to decline the meeting of the headmaster, it’s Lorelai who actually had the plan to pick up the dry-cleaning etc. Mind you, a recurring theme later on is how many clothing items they have, so it doesn’t make any sense anyway, so it’s very deliberate from the writers.
Yes, I am so annoyed by that mistake! I am cutting it out of the video now. I was reading an online scripts from the show (I love reading scripts). And the one I read had a typo, so it had swapped Lorelai’s name with Rory’s. I have realised that I can only rely on rewatching the scene with my own eyes, even just for small interactions
If you ever get the itch to do another Gilmore review video, your thoughts on the classism in the show and how it divides or mirrors the relationships of the characters would be awesome to hear about
I watched Gilmore Girls as a teenager and enjoyed it. I watched some of it recently as a mom in my 30s and I was a bit horrified. I shouldn't be my son's best friend, he has a best friend who's his own age. I need to be his mom.
Love your videos but I disagree with a few points in this one! (I’m rewatching Gilmore Girls for like 3rd or 4th time right now, first watch when I was a preteen/early teen.) First point, I think Lorelei is an extremely functional and successful adult, but she reverts when she has to be involved with her parents’ world (ex. Chilton and Friday night dinners) because that’s where her trauma started and she’s never properly fit in. Second, from my perspective, the show makes it pretty clear that Rory and Dean’s affair isn’t good for either of them. Dean was in love with Rory when he married Linsey (bad), and Dean is always Rory’s backup because she consciously or subconsciously knows that he isn’t over her throughout the show. But Linsey is portrayed as sweet and loving, and I think it’s just a shitty situation of Dean marrying someone he shouldn’t have. Lorelei knows the affair is awful, and though she loves Rory, it’s clear that she’s disappointed in her. I also strongly disagree that Dean choosing Rory was an example of a guy picking the cool girl over the “every girl.” I think the characters are developed and nuanced enough for all sides to be seen without being able to generalize it. Watching the show this time around, I have so much sympathy for Linsey. That’s all for now, I definitely agree that both of them are textbook cool girls (but especially Lorelei).
I remember few moments from middle school in the early 2000s but I can remember this one almost verbatim. I was maybe 14 and I would get a shiny forehead for like 3 days before my period and eventually, I started using a bit of powder for that on those days. Other than that, I didn't use makeup much at that time, because I was inept (still cannot apply eye shadow to save my life) except for some mascara and it was neither here nor there in terms of wanting others to be aware of the fact that I am wearing it.
But on one of those days when I had my little compact, I somehow mentioned it to my best guy friend and a girl from our class came up to me right after and literally said: "oh my god, why the heck would you ever do that?! guys are not supposed to know you wear stuff like that! No wonder you guys aren't dating!"
I thought it was a joke at first because she said it so seriously but I couldn't match it up with any sort of societal rule I had learned at that time. He and I were one of those friend "couples" where everyone thought it surely must be more but it never was but even if we *had* been more, what would me showing him a compact have changed about our feelings for each other?! I think at that point I had internalized the "do not ever show you female hygiene products to any male or face unfathomable shame" rule but not showing a compact was new.
That was the first time I got the "you have to wear makeup that looks natural so that guys think that's how you look naturally" speech from anyone. My mom was a child of the 70s and had wild eye shadow throughout the 80s and 90s. So having to "hide" that you're wearing makeup would not have occurred to me given what colorful displays I had witnessed in the 90s. It seemed wild and thankfully all my male friends seem to be pretty bewildered by that as well. It sucks that a 14 year old girl would even think that in the first place.
omg i never related to a comment so much before in my life. I’m a girl who likes to wear makeup( eyeshadow, diff colours and the more artistic side of it, as well as any other aspects) and I hate how in order to be liked by everyone (especially by boys) , I have to look like I have nothing on, which is kinda dumb and restricting to me. And if it looks like it, Poole would shame me for it. I really, REALLY, hate that. Guys expect you to wake up with natural flushed cheeks, no eye bags and coloured lips?!?! What is this?! No one looks like that naturally, we’re humans, not dolls! And if we want (or dont) to put on makeup we will! It’s our body, our decision!
@@aishanaga2958 The thing is, there are great people out there who do not judge people by their love or hate (or skill or lack thereof, as it is in my case) for make-up! The fun of it is what should matter to you and you can choose to go all crazy colors one day and wear nothing the next. And we can wear heels and dresses but also boots and jeans and none of that defines who we are. People fight so long for the freedom of everyone and the freedom to express ourselves and would then put others in a box because someone chose to actually make use of that freedom?
It's all so silly and unnecessary.
I love addressing this so much! I think it’s necessary if you want to understand and appreciate the girls character arcs. Ironically GG’s cool girl vibes were different from the typical overly sexualized bombshell connotations cool girls came with. Yes they were attractive but they were classy about it. At the time nobody would put Megan Fox in the same trope as Rory. It was a night and day comparison at face value. I think that was Amy’s way of being brilliant. She said this is what sells and yes my girls are the girls everyone wants, and the main characters in all stories but not only are they not like other girls, they are so cool that they are not even like other cool girls. She created a meta cool girl form in them and I think it was rooted in that being their quirky role they played in stars hollow. All the townies have one and at the heart of it the girls are townies. It’s also their defense mechanism that makes them shine and special in the small pond of their town but immature and naive in the reality of the real world. Eventually even the cool girl mask gets old and the lack of accountability it fostered catches up with them. But I do think it was something the girls had to be. Like an alter ego or secret club they once needed to pull strength from. Cool girls stop being cool girls when they no longer care about being anything but themselves. You have to hate the mask you wear before you take it off. And usually that same mask was previously empowering and comforting. We just didn’t get the next chapter when they fully shed that part of them. I bet it’s there though, you know in the world where Rory is a mom she is healthy and organic all the way with that kid!
OMG I'm literally watching Rory Gilmore: The Price of Perfection!!!! I went to see if you had anyother videos and boom uploaded less than an hour ago
The WB got the Bangles to perform for the GG show in 2001 after the group had gotten back together in 1999. Was a great episode.
Yes girl we are here! ❤ I'm living for the GG content 😂❤
So glad you keep pointing out to their eating habits.. it bothers me so much and it got brushed off so easily when the show came out.
you're first! 😍😍
Girl I've been waiting for it, I love your deep dive into GG, wish you'd do one for Ginny and Georgia, it feels so much like GG on steroids or somethin😂
@@OzmaOfOzzI did one already on Ginny and Georgia! ❤️ th-cam.com/video/2C6739vN3wo/w-d-xo.html
@SerenaSkybourne I totally forgot, lmao, I even commented on the video and you replied to me, I feel so senile rn 🤣
I feel that this video sometimes confuses the analysis of characterbehaviour with the analysis of screenplay - and directing choises that create a trope. Rory often acts bad, makes bad choices (because she's growing up, isn't perfect) But a lot of the times the show is not portraying this as cool girl behaviour. Like the Dean-Linddey debacle. Lorelei is very clear to Rory how bad she fucked up in a sensible way. For me is this an exemple that goes exactly against the cool girl trope. Because I think everybody who watches the show knows what Rory is doing wasn't cool (exept maybe teenagers who are in exact the same situation). And that's not a coincidence, the show was made to makes us think that and feel that way. Rory frames in making Lindsy the vilain, not the show. The show depictes a character who fucks up and doesn't have the self-insight to see she made a mistake. So I dont think this example fits the critique.
On the other hand, the girls being almost perfect, but seemingly effortless and their eating like guys in a frathouse thing, the fatshaming of other women etc, thàt is an example of the trope and are a consequence of choices the makers made to 'deceive' us by wanting us to give that image. This is something we maybe did'nt notice years ago but now we do. That this "image" is sexist and potentioally harmful.
But I believe a lot of "fuck-up's" of Rory are also depicted as such.
Rory changes herself a little every person she dated. Dean got her away from her best friend focused on him, she also became a little more obsessive over a boy automatically considering she tried to quit Chilton before starting it all for him. Jess got her to be more boy crazy almost to the point she was thinking about sex with him before he tried to force himself on her only to run off leaving her thinking she did something wrong. She also chose to cheat on Dean with him compromising her values even more. Logan, well then there is Logan. She drops out of college based on his father’s words, ready to give up for a while and party because Logan and the boys mention about the months they took off to party and she took it as a challenge to party longer.
Yes, non of the situation are the boys faults but you can not say Rory is not more of a pick-me girl when she is willing to change herself a little more with each and every boy she dates. There are definitely more “pick-me” moments in the show over Lorelai’s attempt at fishing for whatshisface (the coffee shop owner she met.)
I’m sorry if this at all came off as rude, never know on the internet when people read everything between the lines even if it is not there lol. I’ve probably watched Gilmore Girls six times over, the only show I’ve watched more is The 100 😅
Im old and I was watching GG when it was first aired and I think you missed that yes - Rory and Lorelei are imperfect but it was kind of the point. For example Dean and this dinner Rory made him - it was shown that it was not good to change for a men. The same some Lorelei things you are talking about - she is usually confronted with that her flaws and behaviors. Its not that they are showed "look how cool they are". So your perspective that it is portrayed like it is no problem I find quite problematic. It is life drama - so the main conflict is their behaviours. They even have a big fight about Rory sleeping with Dean.
And also - some of Lorelei stuff are not "cool girl" things but "being oppose of high class" and "being working girl" things.
A lot of stuff that younger people might think of as Lorelei having "cool girl" tastes are simply a function of her being Generation X and liking the music she grew up with. She's not being a pick me because she likes Metallica. She's being a person who was a teen in the 80s. Rory might be accused of being a pick me but it's far more likely she adopted her mother's taste instead. (Also I think her music is influenced by Lane, who is a giant music snob but that's part of her character.)
That One Direction song creeps me out to be honest
HAHAHAHA
So glad I’m not the only one!!
Rory and Dean blamed Lindsey, but no one else did. The show clearly blamed Rory and Dean, by having Lorelai be mad at Rory for it and also by showing Lindsey's sadness.Sure, Lindsey is portrayed as a stupid housewife, but what i love about the writing in GG, is thar it's never one-sided when it comes to conflict. It very much allows Dean to be seen as an asshole.
When I was about 12, I tried to become partly "cool" by learning to play shooter video games (there was even a particular boy I was trying to win over with that). Luckily, I quickly realized that, first, I didn't like those video games and, secondly, no boy was worth so much effort.
OMG, tell me about it! 😭There's no way in hell a teenage boy would ever go to the same lengths! Took me a good while to figure that one out myself back then, but I'm all the happier to have come to this realization eventually. What good is it having your crush fall for you under false pretenses, u know? You'd be trapped having to feign a passion for something you don't really enjoy.
Thank you for touching on how the term "pick me" has become overused and can often be used misogynistically itself now it is also something I had noticed but felt alone in that observation.
The whole mother-daughter "best friends" dynamic was so disturbing. Your mom isn't your buddy, she's your mom. You only get one of those and that relationship is not a "girlfriends" relationship.
I feel like as a child this is absolutely true, but once you hit into adulthood and start branching out on your own as an adult it’s okay to have that kind of relationship. My mom was very very much my mom, but once I got older and more independent as an adult she is still my mom and still fits that role but she is more my best friend now.
My mom hated the show for years because of the fucked up mother-daughter dynamics it portrayed. After we had worked out some of our family issues, she watched it with me and my sister, and we had some REALLY good talks. It is such an interesting portrayal of generational issues among women. The pride, fear, and patterns of emotional abuse keeping the Gilmore women stuck was all SO real for us. I'm so glad we did what the Gilmore women didn't do-- self-reflection and extensive therapy.
@@Aelffwynnmy mom was the opposite. She saw Lorelei as ‘mom goals’, and I have a lot of memories growing up where she tried to make our dynamic that of Lorelei and Rory. Now that I’m older, she still tries for that, but it’s turned more into Lorelei and Emily 😅 she gets the Lorelei/Rory dynamic with my sister now
But remember Lorelai was only 16 when she had Rory and ofc she is naive young girl who had no idea how to raise or parent properly and did not have any help at all and thinking that her instincts worked made it took her advantage to be like that
At least when the kid is still a child being raised, yeah, parents aren’t meant to be friends. You can have a good and fun relationship, but there still needs to be a clear line in the sand about what the dynamic here is.
In adulthood, though, go ahead and be besties haha
I found your account this week and I just finished the Gilmore Girls playlist right when this video came out. Thank you for making such interesting and well researched content!
the timing couldn't be better! :)
welcome to the youtube fam
I will always remember one scene in which Rory picked up an Elvis Costello record and very indifferently talked about it, her aim probably being to appear cool which I thought was extremely ridiculous because usually when your'e into something you show it and get emotional about it. However, that wouldn't have fit the kind of character the show wanted to portray. Sometimes the coolness really was over the top although overall I enjoyed watching the Gilmore Girls because it was so different from any other show I had seen before.
10:47 I could’ve sworn it’s lorelai that says she had the whole plan to get up early and collect the dry cleaning etc??
it 100% is lorelai’s line
It is. This "analysis" is bad for a number of reasons.
Yes it is! I just realised this. I often read through the scripts of the show after I watch, and the one I read had a typo 😭 so it said that it was Rory’s line. My mistake, I am going to edit that part out of the video now.
@@SerenaSkybourne I thought I was going crazy haha, great video otherwise ❤️
@christam5162 like what? I'm genuinely asking because I think this is a very interesting conversation
Oh you are right on time! Its a hard week, so the video is a huge help💙
this week has been so chaotic, i relate girl
@@SerenaSkybourne Don't give up: it's going to be better, I'm sure😊
Yaaasssss would love a part 2! Because it’s been a loooong time but I remember it getting SO unhinged. My teenage brain thought the books were better until I’m reminded by videos like these the tv show actually did a lot better (besides playing Bonnie so dirty UGH)
HOLD ON... getting my pumpkin spiced latte....
YOU KNOW IT 🎃🎃🎃🎃
The idea that Lorelei has to speak to the principal on Rory’s first day at Chilton seems kinda American to me. She already signed the documents, Rory is a student. Idk maybe that’s also a private school thing but I never experienced this when I was a pupil. And I changed schools a lot. My first school day was my first school day. I knew where to go and was shown to my class later on. I would be surprised too if I was Lorelei.
I'm the exact same age as Rory and had many similarities to her. It's taken me a very long time to realize how toxic the dominant culture of the cool girl was and how much it affected me at the time
So many great points. You have much knowledge. I am filled with thoughts. But FIRST I must re-watch cause this was background while working and I’m pretty sure I missed details on the points I want to comment on.
This video 🤌🏼 loving the honestly and how you make amazing points on how there were not so great moments but still like Gilmore as a whole
This was so great. I've been waiting for this exact topic for quite a while, I can't believe this is the first Cool Girl-GG deep dive!
Extremely well-researched and thoughtful. I agree with like 95% of everything said.
A couple alternate opinions - I think the Donna Reed episode was great character development for Rory because of the conversation between her and Dean where he was being a misogynistic dick and she said something like - it's not about wanting to take care of her family, it's about being expected to have the 7-course meal ready every night when he comes home, and looking perfect while cooking and cleaning. And then when she does the date evening for him and excitedly tells him about all she learned about Donna Reed. I think she DID enjoy doing that, and that she learned and grew in the process.
The other tiny thing I wanted to say is regarding the first day at Chilton episode. It's actually Lorelai who rants about having had the whole morning planned, getting coffee and going to the drycleaners. It's a tiny thing and I'm not trying to be hypercritical - the reason I'm pointing it out is because, rather than demonstrating Rory's parentification (which you absolutely demonstrated through lots of other examples), it actually was a super relatable moment for Lorelai. One of the most relatable moments in the first several eps, i would say. Who among us HASN'T made a very reasonable plan and had the universe shit all over it, only to make us look like a big joke? 😂
I totally agree with that. Really good analysis. Thanks!
Its shocking to review movies and series from when we grew up- even all those movies from the 90's when I was a child. The sexism there wow... and also the homophobia/ anti-queerness.
As you said Gilmore Girls is still a softer case for the sexism- gosh there are so many movies and series from back then and even today which are just insane. As a child i didnt notice it- which shows how internalized I had had that. Terrible.
(Regarding the homophobia comments in Gilmore girls I noticed: The term "gay" always used in a negative way by the heterosexual men.Really upset me to hear that.)
Back to the sexism: Moreover, it is internalized sexism- that girls/ women were taught/internalized that doing supposedly "male" stuff (as u say everything male scented) makes them "cool". That being "female" would be "uncool".
Its still like that in society unfortunately.
(I want to stress that what is female and male is a societal concept of course).
The whole: women must be like this and men like that- is unfair to both:"women are weak", "men are not allowed to cry".
(though no doubt !!!while men also suffer from patriarchy, women have it the hardest !!!in patriarchy).
Anyways really like your analysis- we can all learn from that and work on our internalized "isms".
Last thing, I found something from the actor who plays Luke; the role Luke was actually also sexualized by the women in the city, incl Sookie and Lorelai; especially his "butt"; i noticed that while watching the show and also felt that this is not right; on the show one can see how "Luke" didnt like that he was being objectified and the women just ignored that and giggled. Disturbing really.
I wouldnt call it sexism because its not the case that the women viewed him/ men as inferior because he was a man (versus whats happening on systemic level towards women, that there is sexism towards women- they were/ are seen as inferior) but it is definitely objectifying/ sexualizing him- and not taking him serious- and thats not okay.
And then I found an article that the actor of Luke in fact really found it uncomfortable and disturbing, that this happened within "the roles" but also off set.
"It was all about the butt, the butt, the butt, the butt," he continued. "When we weren't filming, we were sitting down - people were still talking about the butt, the butt, the butt. It was the most disturbing time I have ever spent on that set, and I couldn't wait for that day to be over."
The actor said also said he was frustrated at himself for not speaking up back then but said that he didn't want to "make waves" with his colleagues on the series, which was brought back in 2016 for a revival miniseries with Netflix."
""It's as disgusting for women to objectify men as it is for men to objectify women, and it's as harmful," he said. "Just because it was 2003 doesn't mean it was OK. It's never OK, and I didn't feel comfortable doing it, and it [expletive] me off. And I never said anything, so I was angry at myself for never saying anything. But I had this job, and I didn't want to make waves and all that."
www.hellomagazine.com/film/20220913150964/gilmore-girls-scene-scott-patterson-found-disturbing/?viewas=amp
I want to emphasize: I dont (!!!) want to compare this with the systemic societal sexism towards women from back then/ today. I dont want to compare this with the horrible experiences that women had to endure in the film industry especially throughout history and even still today- where objectifying/ sexualizing women on the show/within the roles and off-set comments were "standard";and sexist behaviour was "standard"; it didnt even stop at "comments" there as we know- so so many known and unknown cases of actual sexual abuse etc at the set/ behind the scenes/ by regisseurs or co- actors ; it is horrible what was done to actresses "back in the days" and probably still can happen today.
But even though I dont want to compare it- I just wanted to state the thing with the Luke actor Scott Pattersson- because thats also not okay that he was treated that way. And he was scared to say something- because he thought he wouldnt have been taken seriously or so.
I’m a bit late to this but about the first day at chilton, I think Lorelai’s clothes are really a comment about class: she desperately wants to be (and be seen as) apart from the “old money” type, and though it’s not actually the case (she still makes sure that Rory attends to this school) she wants to keep this facade, that she’s different from all that her parents represent..
it does seem like an endless cycle that we will never escape - it’s funny how the ‘clean girl’ aesthetic is a thing now that caters to the no makeup look which men have spent years saying they prefer but they don’t understand that this aesthetic uses a lot of products and costs so much money just like a regular face of makeup would??
I watched this when I was a teen and it wrapped when I was in college. I watched it again maybe 2 years ago in my 30’s and wowwww. 😮💨
Lorelai was an overgrown child. She was selfish. She believed the world revolved around her own happiness. She was entitled. And I know people will say, “No, she ran away from her rich parents to do her own thing!” Exactly. She ran away without telling them (granted, she was a teen) and she expected everyone to support her along the way. Where would she have been without being charming enough to garner everyone into helping her? The inn lady gave her a job and a place to live. Luke CONSTANTLY stepped in as her protector. And then Richard and Emily shelled out over $100,000 to pay for Rory to go to a fancy prep school because of course Rory is special and too good for public school. And we’re supposed to believe that Lorelai sucking it up to have a gourmet meal in beautiful surroundings once a week is adequate payment. Lorelai bullies Emily all the time. Emily can ask an innocent question and Lorelai jumps all over her with some sarcastic and mean remark.
Rory was completely entitled. Everyone told her she was special her whole life and she ended up being some spoiled rich girl. She could have set her sights lower and gotten a full ride scholarship to a state school, but noooo that wasn’t good enough for special Rory. She had to go to Harvard… and then changed her mind to Yale. She couldn’t afford to go, so it’s a good thing she had rich grandparents who enjoyed spoiling her. Even then, Emily was thrilled to spend time with her doing the DAR stuff and that was also crapped on. And all of this privilege and money thrown on her education for what? For her to spend her 20’s and early 30’s having a mediocre career and being the secret side piece of a man who wanted to marry her in the first place. So Rory looked down her nose at marriage to Logan, but didn’t mind being his wh*re. Mmmmmmkay.
Thank you! Everyone defends Lorelai, saying that her parents were toxic but they were literally just being parents, making decisions they felt were right for their daughter to survive in life & their world. Overbearing yes, but they never hurt their daughter. Even Lorelai says this a few times in the series. She said they drove her crazy and they had standards she couldn't deal with. None of them are saints, they each have issues, but Lorelai was so disrespectful to them.
And in cannon they talk about Lorelai driving to Stars Hollow, taking the basics (the car, stroller, clothes etc) with her and having 'nothing'....but those things were bought by her parents. And as a rich kid (particularly with Trix as a grandmother and Richard as her father) you're telling me she didn't get money every birthday or Christmas? She had money in her bank. She wasn't 'broke' as she said. She did end up budgeting but she was never broke.
They also say she visited her parents on holidays, and they would never just not get them gifts. They refer to the presents. Baccarat candle sticks etc. Rory probably got baby clothes and a few other things (including money) from them at Christmas. And being rich, it wouldn't just be $20. So whatever they gave, they were still helping.
I could go on but it bothers me that Lorelai is framed as never getting help but she probably did get financial help from her parents to some degree. Rich people though don't think $500 is a lot so it was probably something like that once a year etc. It's still help. And living in a shed sounds noble but in the middle of winter in Connecticut? It'd be snowing and there was no insulation. That's not something to be proud of. It's reckless as it could endanger baby Rory. So moving to that from the stable (but annoying) Gilmore residence was a horrible decision.
If she really wanted to leave, why not get a job and save up for a year first? Have an apartment first then move. Don't endanger the child...
I love the show but I have so many issues with Lorelai
They address the fact that Donna Reed was representing women who HAD TO do that and then later in the episode Rory shared that she’d researched Donna Reed and found out she produced her own show or something. I think you need a rewatch.
i know they said that, and that Rory acknowledged that she had learned more about Donna Reed, but the tone of the episode was still so confusing to me around the message they were trying to send, and if Rory was being sincere or not. Especially with her later actions towards 'home-maker' figures like Lindsay
@@SerenaSkybourne I think it’s a bit of a stretch to link something from such an early episode to such a later one. I completely agree that the masc-feminism of GG is grating and outdated but I think the specific DR thing you were talking about was resolved. I would however would have liked Dean to have bent a bit in it, it was like Rory did a whole lot of work for him to not even really comprehend in the end.
I agree! I saw it all as humorous reaction to how we react - and sometimes overreact -to older TV shows, a natural backlash etc. So I can laugh at it 😂 .
To begin, Rory and Lorelai invited Dean over to watch the Donna Reed show - just to mock it in every way! I think the Gilmore girls are the ones that overreact to Dean not "playing his role" or joining in. Dean is not sexist, he expresses exactly what this video states... to stop mocking women for their choices! Then he realizes his audience and knows when to quit, shut up and quickly eat that salad he naively brought along with the Pizza (he won't make that mistake again, ha!)
As for the whole dinner Rory did and how she dressed up, that was all in good fun in my eyes! Rory rethinks everything and finds a creative way to make light of everything. Part of the fun was watching Rory obsess over little details as she tries to surprise Dean with this dinner party for two! She and Dean talk it over and have good moments as well as teenage awkwardness, as neither are sure how to act. That is just part of the humor we all can relate to especially in your first real dating relationship.
I think the sexism in OTH had a lot to do with the creepy creator of the show. Have you listened to the podcast, “Drama Queens” with Sophia Bush, Hillarie Burton Morgan, and Bethany Joy Lenz? The podcast gives a lot of context to the things that were easily looked over in the early 2000s when the show aired.
This video came at the perfect time, i just started my annual rewatch last week ! 😅
The Gilmore girls don't like women, only in S07 do we see either of them interacting with more than one woman at a time in a wholly positive manner (but let's be real, those girls at Yale barely count as characters), every other time there is a clear tension or judgment. At Chilton, at work, at Yale, it doesn't matter - the girls are unable to hang out with multiple women in a positive context (even worse if they are, like you said, beautiful, smart, or, gasp, quirky!).
Hell, Rory absolutely hates Logan's S07 colleague Bobbie, who is a Cool Girl, beautiful, intelligent, interesting, just a chill person; she's not a potential friend, she's a threat for existing near Logan.
Hell, it's not just Lorelai and Rory who are Cool Girls, Paris and Lane also are, and they share the hatred for women.
Side note, looking at the show and the revival, Rory is a baffling character as a whole - it's almost like a slowburn character assassination except I think she's just proof of a creator who doesn't realize her character is an asshole. The way Rory regressed over the course of all the episodes is really sad, and it's never addressed (because the show is not interested in examining anything deeply, it is often too shallow for it), so it just kind of exists - she's an unkind, selfish, entitled person who ends her storyline by becoming a mother, and like Lorelai before her, in her flaws, she will parentify her child because she's also ill-equipped to be a parent (and an adult).
As for a topic you might consider talking about, if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion, how about how the show handles sexuality (yikes) and parenthood, and how it's shoved down every character's throat? By the end, there is barely anyone who's childless or single (I think Jess is the sole exception, but that's because he couldn't possibly be happy in a relationship or have a child, it would ruin him for Rory - narratively speaking; even Emily sort of maybe has a pseudo-boyfriend). While this may be just how most shows are, in some instances it's unnecessary - why the hell does Paris have multiple kids?? Why did Liz have a kid? Why have a storyline where Jackson refused to get a vasectomy and never told his wife thus leading to her becoming pregnant AGAIN? Hell, why did they saddle Lane with twins?? And most if not all of these kids… we barely see, so WHY.
That’s a very interesting suggestion, would love to see a video on that!
YES! I NEVER thought that Paris would turn out as she did based on her entire character arc. At least Rory's path makes sense.
@abbyabroad1892 Being married to Doyle and still being insecure are very Paris but the kids? That stupid house? They were all just gags with no payoff.
Don't get me started on the fertility clinic stupidity - way to get a beloved character back just to use her as a plot device AND give her no humanity. She existed for that dumb storyline that was never going to lead anywhere, and that is it, and I guess to be unhappy because can't have a super successful, kickass, happy 30something running around, it would only undermine Rory (even Lane is used this way - yes she's happy in her life, but she's another adult not allowed to live a life that would take them away from being available to Rory).
I disagree that ASP doesn’t know Rory is an ass. I think there’s lots of groundwork laid for what happens in the revival all over the series. (How often does someone say her writing is mean?) I think Rory is very well written but she’s not supposed to be an entirely aspirational character. ASP’s sympathy seems to be more with Lorelei if you want to pick out a “good” character but none of the characters are either completely good or bad.
Wow. I remember the days where being girly was uncool. I thought that being boyish, as a girl, was a form of feminism. Yes, and no. The freedom to be boyish, if you wanted, was good. Degrading those who weren’t, was bad. It was so common to laugh at girly behavior. It was the cool tomboys, Paris Hilton esc girly girls who seemed shallow, & men were left alone.
great video! Where did you see Portman? The Opera?
it seems to me that Gilmore Girls problems around female representation stem directly from the concept and the title of the show: trying to navigate between the teen drama (Rory's storyline) and the romantic sitcom (Lorelai's storyline); your comparison with Mean Girls is extremely interesting because, unlike Tina Fey who stuck to focusing on the female students, ASP seems to be prone to drifting from a subgenre to another : it's telling that this dichotome is most visible in the later seasons when Rory and Lorelai's arcs litterally split up. I'm still unable to decide if Rory's negative arc was planned ahead or if it happened because of the teen drama / coming of age dynamic - and Lorelai's arc suffers the most because the focus has become Rory, not the mother-daughter relationship.
To be fair, making a show about a mother-daughter relationship is quite the challenge, considering that at the time the show aired - and even still today - it's still not a proper subgenre on its own, so it's relevant that they felt they had to pick from other subgenres tropes.
Overall, I think that the main screenwriting takeaway from the show is that it's extremely difficult for a female screenwriter to escape the male gaze and the man-pleasing cool girl fantasy when writing female protagonists - a major issue to be found in fanfiction for example.
It would be really interesting to try to sort which elements in the GG cool girl trope are actually female gazed fantasies - did we really need to have the boyfriends' admiration to their eating habits? How refreshing it would have been not to have them in the scenes!
it was at a theatre in the 6th arrondissement :)
The things you said about the cool girl trope in general seem to be almost exactly the same stuff that was said in the video about the cool girl trope by The Take.
But the things you said about the GG was interesting and well done, thanks.
I really do enjoy your deep dives (they are very eye opening), please could you do a deep dive on one tree hill if you can. Keep up the interesting videos, thanks.
Yes perfect u posted just in time I just woke up from my nap cleaning and doing laundry while listening to you, looking gorgeous as usual serena
Boy, I never look gorgeous when I wake up from a nap to clean and do laundry. You must be the effortless cool beautiful girl!
(JK, I know you’re complimenting Serena.)
@@lim4275 that was funny thank u so much for making me laugh 😃
@@jasmyneperryman9629
Oh, good. My mission for the day is fulfilled! 😍
Hahahhaa I’m dyingggg I also thought you were calling yourself gorgeous 😂😂 what a confidence queen
@@SerenaSkybourne
That kind of made my day! Love your channel ! 😍
Maybe I‘m wrong but this Video seems really disrespectful like shaming lorelai for having trouble managing her job and her daughter as a very young single mom is very disrespectful. That chilton episode just shows that it’s okay to not have it all together sometimes as a single mom and that you don’t always have to look perfect or appropriate in a humerous way. I also like that the main characters like Rory, Lorelai and Luke don’t care about gender specific things and what other people think. And why do you assume that sooki and Lane are no potential threat? Why would you even assume that women who are friends always have that kind of competition ? The Gilmore girls just do the things they like without caring about the gender rolls like that dancing competition and then this whole running a business thing and wanting to achieve something which was/is hard as a woman (like a career in journalism) because of the prejudices of society. This isn’t about wanting to be different than stereotypes of women but to show that there are no gender specific goals and to show that women are individuals with different dreams and not just the stereotypical one. I don’t like shaming stay at home moms like Emily and I don’t like it when it’s done in the show but attacking someone because they don’t want that stereotypical life as a woman and being resentful towards this is no better in my opinion.
As a man, I can only comment from the perspective of an outsider, but my love of Gilmore Girls has always stemmed from just how flawed and realistic these people were. Yes it's a bit of a fantasy, but neither Loralai nor Rory should be seen as perfect, as they were both very flawed. The biggest problem I have with the sexism argument against Gilmore Girls is their lack of talking about the periods. I know that would largely alienate the males in the audience, but censoring such an important aspect of being a woman simply so it doesn't offend the delicate males is ridiculously sexist.
Lorelai wears very visible makeup often for no special occasion. Lipstick and rouge are some of her staples.
The way people treated them even with their diet is also wayyyyy different from how someone who doesn’t present as “effortlessly feminine” would be treated. If they were bigger bodied, the “awe” would be more realistically judgement and criticism.
You’re doing one tree hill???? I asked for this so long ago! I’m so happy ❤❤❤
Anything for you
Hey Serena, when you discuss One Tree Hill, could you talk about:
1. The slut-shaming of Brooke Davis from the first time she "snuck" into the back of Lucas' truck.
2. The lack of consequences Nathan faced for terrorizing Lucas for most of the first season.
3. Peyton's tendency to play the victim.
4. Haley having an emotional turned physical affair with Chris Keller while she was married
5. Lucas constantly being labeled as the "villain" even though Dan was a freaking MURDERER.
absolutely@@rachelmartin5187
@@SerenaSkybourne Thank you!
it's an interesting take that their refusal to eat healthy is because they're "not like other girls" when the only characters who have expressed concern about their eating habits are men. Think Michel's dieting, Luke's repeated criticism of their habits, the whole thing with Richard and his insistence that Lorelai eat grapefruit and with criticizing them ordering a lot of Chinese food, Dean buying a salad, Max feeling disbelief at their eating ice cream, etc etc. I feel like it is the men who guilt trip them about their eating with health in mind - when Emily does it, it's more because of the "low-class" angle than the poor nutrition. Could this not be viewed as more of a "my body, my choice" theme than a "not like other girls" theme?
Ok, I love that the editor admits to not knowing what “no makeup” actually means.😂
Hey; great video. I would love to see a video about how feminism manifests in the show/the positive ways womanhood is portrayed in GG:)
Have a nice day
I’ve never watched Gilmore Girls, but I have watched all of Serena’s GG videos 100000x over.
🥹🥹
Always happy when you upload 😍
girl why did i read this as 'autism rewatch' and was like finally a video for me
Really well put together video and all your insights are mind blowing! You’re able to articulate these things so well
Definitely some issues with the show. But I still love it and re-watch it every fall lol
It's sad that women get put into a category so often, even by other women. When I had tiktok I saw a lot of videos about it as well. Most of the videos I saw where actually made by women and made fun of women who simply wear makeup, don't wear makeup, who like pumpkin spice lattes and Taylor Swift or who are 'emo' / alt.
Labelling real women as 'manic pixie dream girls' or 'pick me girls' does nothing more than make women who have similar preferences or traits to those assosiated with these labels self conscious, and perpetuate the idea that no woman is ever nuanced or complicated. I'm only a teenager, but I've been made to feel insecure by these trends before, even though they are often framed as progressive.
From what I've seen, it's very rare to see men being mocked in the same way, sure we have 'nice guys' but many of the traits assosiated with that label are negative, and men are hardly ever judged so harshly just because they happen to have one thing in common with these tropes.
You can see that in the time Gilmore Girls was made, being a 'cool girl' was seen as feminist. But nowadays, it's almost as if the opposite is true. If you dislike feminine or
unpopular things, you're labelled as a mysogynistic 'pick me girl.'
I am aware that many of these negative tropes are assosiated with putting other women down, and that's why it's so normalised- it's okay to make fun of something sexist. But by assigning preferences or attributes to these tropes, we are doing nothing more than putting other women down under the guise of feminism.
Sorry if this was kind of ranty, I'm not very good at structuring my thoughts lol. I loved this video, you had some great thoughts on the show that I hadn't considered before!
Don't apologise for ranting, you hit the nail on the head. It's exactly that. Nothing we ever do as women will never not be picked apart by either men (or by other women as proxy). It's just par for the course and it's absolutely the worst when it comes to teenage girls. I sincerely wish we can leave all this pretty bullshit behind us one day.
Btw, great video and also you have a really good fall outfit, Serena! And you look very cute in it, hon! The pattern, too, is nice! Love the design! Looks really gorgeous! I love it! And what a really amazing way to swing into fall as well! By watching the OG coffee/latte drinking-to show, Gilmore Girls, the show that also started the "cool girl" trend in entertainment media that we see today and also popularized it! And love your red hair, too! You're very cute here in this video, babe! Also, you're a cool girl yourself, too, you know! Especially after covering this topic, you'll be even cooler than you already were, Serena!
Actually in the Donna Reed episode Rory explains in the end that she actually enjoyed herself cooking the dinner and that she did some research on Donna Reed. She wasn't trying to please Dean. She wanted to explain that she overreacted and that after doing more research she saw more to it. It isn't implied that she needed to change herself to please Dean and this is made clear by Dean too and he says that he doesn't want her to be like that and he wants her to be as she is. He was just saying that that kind of woman is not necessarily bad. So they agreed to that in the end, even acknowledging the mysogeny of only allowing women to be like that, which is what Rory was trying to say. But I agree with you on the rest of the points made. The general portrayal of other female characters is not that good.
7:47 This is so insightful 👏👏👏
3 minutes in and I’m like men are exhausting 😂 I feel like so many times we forget how many female characters were written by men, through a males perspective. It’s so common we forget!
Im not sure if Charmed is up your alley, but since its October can you do a video about charmed?
I rarely see anyone my age talk about it.
+ October is the 25th year anniversary month.
+ its about witches which is perfect for Halloween
She has one on Charmed :) I really liked that show too. YT doesn’t let me paste a link for you. It’s called “need to rewatch Charmed”
th-cam.com/video/uSdU123MdHc/w-d-xo.html
i attached my charmed video!
also what an amazing idea, i had no idea it was the anniversary!
@@SerenaSkybourne I totally forgot about your video 😅 I just went to the link and found my old comment.
Not relevant but your skin is glowing! So pretty.
Thankyou babe
20:55 - As someone who did ballet for ten years, you're supposed to look effortless but you're also supposed to be really precise, the audience isn't supposed to see the imperfections but they also can't see that it's hard, so while his argument has SOME merit its also bullshit
I can see how the trope comes up in Black Swan, but ballet, is tremendously difficult and is supposed to look effortless on stage. The director cast Nina for being more technically excellent, but his notes/comparison to Lily would’ve made Nina a better dancer had she had the mental capacity (stunted by her narcissistic mother) to believe in herself and her capabilities and revel in that. That’s where the lightness comes in, confident.
how would lorelai know that she's supposed to go in and meet the principal? that's not a normal school thing. she didn't seem to know. did no one tell her?
charleston and emily are to blame for coercing lorelai into removing her coat. but she also could have just sat down without taking off her coat and without saying anything about it.
she also could have worn slightly dirty clothes rather than wear tiny shorts and cowboy boots (???). but we're just supposed to accept the tv logic that she had no other clothes available.
missing her alarm (or it not working or whatever) is just bad luck that could happen to anyone. it doesn't make lorelai irresponsible.
CONTRIVED af
She had her nice clothes options at the dry cleaners! Physically not in her house haha.
@@carysbebard3690
she could have worn something normal that was slightly dirty. literally anything except what she chose.
I watched first five full episodes but couldnt handle it anymore. Love the setting of the show, its beautiful and the small town is something a lot of people idolize now
Need the one tree hill video soooon😭❤️
Your excitement talking about autumn in Paris 🥰
Lorirorifending here: some women can actually eat lot without gaining weight. Rory might inherited it from lorelei and L. from Emily who is also slim considering her age and especially since her comfort food seems to be alcohol.
Also as an European who wondered how often they all eat out or had food delivered (not only the Gilmores), even students who usually can't afford eating out on regular basis I thought it to be an American thing, only difference being that at least they were honest about food being their way of comfort and celebrating life events and that's what made them "cool". How many women are portrayed in movies complaining about food all the time and then when alone at home binge eating pizza etc. and feeling guilty about it?
So that's what I found refreshing about them celebrating food.
Also they are busy and always in movement and leave plates half eaten ( you should stop when you are not hungry anymore) and they do have their occasional veggies at Emily's 😂
This video is making me realize that i'm probably perceived like a cool girl. Im a bit more masculine, genuinely dont care about makeup or fashion, and i am unfortunately somewhat conventionally attractive. But here's what really drives it home: i do come off as very aloof and unattached. Now, while that might make guys perceive me as cooler and more attractive, the funny thing is im GENUINELY 100% uninterested in them, and actually have a strange relationship to womanhood because i'm a lesbian and probably nonbinary lol.
i seriously dont want these guys to fall all over me, I literally just want to be their friends and be perceievd as a totally platonic mate. but it has been a constant in my life that they do want some kind of relationship with me. whereas other far more beautiful, kinder and INTERESTED women do not get the attention i get. I guess men might perceive the fact that i dont care as like "wow its so cool how she's not needy or clingy or high strung", but the truth is i really, genuinely 100% dont care. And once you reject their advances, the fallout is so bad, you wind up losing another friend. :( OR once they get a girlfriend, they never treat me with the same interest or engagement in my friedship because that never was their end goal with me.
The way society perceives those of us that are, or are perceived as, women is realy harmful.
Girls: do whatever you want. Men will project their fantasies on us anyway. Be yourselves, dress however you want, take pride in your interests and caring is a strength not a weakness 💖
my one complaint per se is everyone is so demanding of Dean. So many Vlogs of GG expect him to have these mature progressive thoughts like he is a 30-something.. he's a high school kid. He's not going to be that aware or deep. Teens have an instant gratification mindset. Everything is in the prism of themselves first. I wish the fandom would be more understanding of him.
I feel like the majroity of us who grew up alongside the series was waaaay more understanding of him just a couple of years ago. It seems like people have a hard time contextualiszing the things they see whenever they rewatch the show nowadays. I mean, it's fun to rewatch your fave series and nitpick all the potentially toxic things in it -- I do it all the time as well. But you're 100% right, he simply behaved like a typical 16/17yo boy.