The screws to disassemble the magnetic base are behind the sticker on the front of the base. You will have to remove that sticker in order to access the screws. Then it comes apart very easily.
Contruction of these Bases is quite interesting. They consist of two steel halfs (left and right, magnetic steel off course) bonded together by a non-magnetic part (maybe Aluminium) in the center. Inside is just a big magnetic rod, with the north- and southpole either pointing up and down (off state, the magnetic field ist guided between the poles through the steel) or left and right (on state, now the two magnetic poles are extended by the steel parts and will be guided to the metal parts you clamp the base to).
This looks like a really cool project to be involved in. Love the way you talk through the technical aspects and show up close the major points to be careful with before starting the cutting process.
very nice! i designed a similar thing a while ago, also copying noga's original, but couldn't get my hands on one to examine, so the spring mechanism i came up with was bulkier & more complicated. glad to see there's an easier way to do it, and that it works! will definitely have to get around to making one
The fine adjust on the bottom is the top reason why I like the nogas so much. It is so much easier and faster to zero up your dials than with the top adjust one. For some reason they stopped making the bottom adjust magbases. Now if you want bottom adjustment I had to buy a magbase that have both top and bottom adjust.
re: 7:39 - If anyone is interested, I put together a video about using expressions in Fusion 360 to start chamfers in the exact center of small holes. It's a long video... sorry! (~1 hour) I'll post the link as a response to this post, since it's a tossup whether TH-cam will automatically mark it as spam or not. The title of the video is "Using 'If Then Else' Logic in Fusion 360 CAM Expressions".
Although it would probably be a bad place to start watching, the part of my video that shows the expressions that automatically calculate the leads necessary to go to the center of a hole starts at 33 minutes, 35 seconds.
Sounds like you needed a press mandrel to seat the knob onto screw. Drill a thread clearance hole in any bar of scrap would do. And if needed, a clearance rabbet if the base of the screw head is subsurface.
John, would you be able to make a video on how you would approach using a square broaching tool in a VMC using Fusion? I know how I'm going to tackle it but it would be nice to see if I'm over complicating it and how other people would go about it. Thanks
They are called Belleville washers or disc springs and you can get them everywhere (ebay, Amazon, offline). They are also normally used in ATC spindles to secure the toolholders. Pneumatic pressure will then push against a large stack of those disc springs to release the tool.
I'll probably make my own version on my manual equipment, but all that effort to use the best tool paths you can come up with and you chose to use aluminum for the major parts. Even entry level basic engineering practice dictates the cheapest parts should always wear out first (those threads on the bolt) Far better and much longer lasting would have been to use at least mild steel for the part with the female threads even though they would be softer than the bolt threads, but they would still last a whole lot longer. Even better would have been tool steel and hardened after the machining. There's a whole lot more to designing good long lasting parts than just picking a material only because it's easy and fast to machine. Aluminum has some definite property's that are well worth choosing when the parts usage demands what it has to offer. It's low weight verses strength would be only one of them. As a tool making material and especially for these parts and what long term use they'll be put to it offers no real advantages and some distinct disadvantages. It wasn't an incorrect choice for that pressed on knob since almost anything could be used for it. That aluminum still wouldn't have been a bad choice if a steel thread insert had been used. But a bit more thought should have been put into the design.
Seems like your argument could be applied to nearly any aluminum part that has threads. "Oh, the threads will wear out faster than the screw, aluminum is not suitable."
@@Hirudin It's not "my" argument at all, as I said those are basic engineering concepts and there based on well thought out logic. Threads in aluminum can and do work just fine even with steel threaded fasteners. Most engine blocks today are aluminum with steel bolts or studs threaded into those aluminum engine blocks. But at most those bolts might be used 2-3 times in the engines lifetime, or maybe never. So there's still good engineering reasons why those aluminum threads by themselves will work for the intended job. Steel threaded spark plugs are also used into aluminum heads, but again it's likely an average engine will see less than 5-8 sets of new plugs in it's whole life.For something that's going to be used a lot just like that fine adjustment, then as I said mild steel, hardened tool steel or threaded inserts would be the much better choice.
@@stuarthardy4626 I have real doubts anything magnetic n the top of the base would be an issue at all since my Starrett and Mit magnetic bases use steel for there screwed in vertical rods. There designed so the magnetic field is directed out the base and there's hardly any through the top. But non magnetic 304, 316 stainless would still get you far more durable threads than aluminum.
@@turningpoint6643 This is why Engineering needs to be informed by practical experience. The aluminum threads will last effectively infinitely in this use case. Not even close to being a concern.
Me & my cnc just can't make this. Would you make it it & sell it to me? If there is a specific NORA holder that I need to buy I would to buy first. Very good video, but I kinda miss John's "smiling face"!
great video i was looking at your base op 2 and i can see the models position in the stock is not representative of where it would actually be after the prior ops which i think is why you had to go back and add the 0.01 to get the tool path to generate. on a side note are you sure noga isn't going to have a problem with you showing everyone how to knock off their adjustable bases :-)
Very neat.....but there is a simpler mechanism design, it looks like a hinge and the bottom of the hinge is attached to the base and the top of the hinge gets the mag column.....there is a screw....like in this design ...... with a spring that pushes the hinge apart. The hinge can be a simple U shaped bend on it's side made from a piece of springy steel that the screw pushes apart. BTW, how does that low profile vice on the mill work.....I can't see any tightening mechanism.
At around the 3:00 mark you show the M8x1. 25 as inches (M8x1.25") , one hell of an M8 you got there! ;) Great little project, have done some similar ones at work, nowhere near as pretty as these are though!
Any chance of sharing the cad file? Was curious to see the exact settings of the tools used, also what about modeling in a given software followed by an external CAM software like MasterCAm
@@avitolourenco I agree! Fusion does have its down sides, its not as powerful for example but you also don't need upgraded packages to use 5 axis toolpaths unlike mastercam. As a whole and considering the low cost I genuinely think it cant be dismissed as a serious option.
What is a f3D format? interested in building my own, is there another format available?. You're right about the fine adjust at the top close to the indicator. It's almost worthless up there.
Since you do not care about copying the exact design of the fine adjust base, why do you keep its triangular shape? Just mill it square and save yourself a set of soft jaws.
Really? They aren't allowed to show their product off on youtube? He could have also just used some material from the scrap bin and drill the 4 holes on a drill press
@@chrisnorth3458 Is it really a product they sell though? Since it's pretty much a straight up copy of Nogas design, they may take issue with that? But, there are tons of Chinese copies of the entire Noga arms so :) Who knows, the cheap copies may even increase sales for Noga when people who originally wouldnt have bought them due to prices realize that they want the better original part after using the cheap copy :P Companies buying metrology equipment likely wont go for the copies anyway.
The screws to disassemble the magnetic base are behind the sticker on the front of the base. You will have to remove that sticker in order to access the screws. Then it comes apart very easily.
Contruction of these Bases is quite interesting. They consist of two steel halfs (left and right, magnetic steel off course) bonded together by a non-magnetic part (maybe Aluminium) in the center. Inside is just a big magnetic rod, with the north- and southpole either pointing up and down (off state, the magnetic field ist guided between the poles through the steel) or left and right (on state, now the two magnetic poles are extended by the steel parts and will be guided to the metal parts you clamp the base to).
This looks like a really cool project to be involved in. Love the way you talk through the technical aspects and show up close the major points to be careful with before starting the cutting process.
very nice! i designed a similar thing a while ago, also copying noga's original, but couldn't get my hands on one to examine, so the spring mechanism i came up with was bulkier & more complicated.
glad to see there's an easier way to do it, and that it works! will definitely have to get around to making one
A younger John.... He is good with the videos.
The fine adjust on the bottom is the top reason why I like the nogas so much. It is so much easier and faster to zero up your dials than with the top adjust one. For some reason they stopped making the bottom adjust magbases. Now if you want bottom adjustment I had to buy a magbase that have both top and bottom adjust.
That's a nice shot of the Tormach spindle. Maybe a tighter view of the actual work in the next video?
John looks somehow different today
I miss it when he did these videos
re: 7:39 - If anyone is interested, I put together a video about using expressions in Fusion 360 to start chamfers in the exact center of small holes. It's a long video... sorry! (~1 hour)
I'll post the link as a response to this post, since it's a tossup whether TH-cam will automatically mark it as spam or not. The title of the video is "Using 'If Then Else' Logic in Fusion 360 CAM Expressions".
"Using 'If Then Else' Logic in Fusion 360 CAM Expressions".
th-cam.com/video/dFSekpMbCdo/w-d-xo.html
Although it would probably be a bad place to start watching, the part of my video that shows the expressions that automatically calculate the leads necessary to go to the center of a hole starts at 33 minutes, 35 seconds.
Great project. I have a non-NOGA base (but NOGA indicator-Arm) that needs this.
Why didn't you helicoil the M3 threaded hole ? Fine threads in aluminum aren't going to hold up well.
Nice project and little upgrade👌
Nicely done!
ATB, Robin
Sounds like you needed a press mandrel to seat the knob onto screw.
Drill a thread clearance hole in any bar of scrap would do.
And if needed, a clearance rabbet if the base of the screw head is subsurface.
Or, you could just spot the small holes to chamfer them. Use G82 and add dwell time for a better surface finish.
John, would you be able to make a video on how you would approach using a square broaching tool in a VMC using Fusion? I know how I'm going to tackle it but it would be nice to see if I'm over complicating it and how other people would go about it. Thanks
Ok now make a mag base that doesn't break when you drop it :( Good job with the video man! You're a natural.
Another great widget - thanks for sharing the CAD and CAM. I was wondering if you could share where you procured the washers. Thanks in advance
They are called Belleville washers or disc springs and you can get them everywhere (ebay, Amazon, offline). They are also normally used in ATC spindles to secure the toolholders. Pneumatic pressure will then push against a large stack of those disc springs to release the tool.
@@Paul-qu4kl Thanks a lot Paul - found and order them - looking forward to convert my Noga bases
I need one of those things for an aluminum tool plate.
Curious, what is the black thing around the bottom of the spindle housing? (I am currently assembling a 1100mx at work)
Happy Wednesday Love From India
I am. Machinist
I'll probably make my own version on my manual equipment, but all that effort to use the best tool paths you can come up with and you chose to use aluminum for the major parts. Even entry level basic engineering practice dictates the cheapest parts should always wear out first (those threads on the bolt) Far better and much longer lasting would have been to use at least mild steel for the part with the female threads even though they would be softer than the bolt threads, but they would still last a whole lot longer. Even better would have been tool steel and hardened after the machining. There's a whole lot more to designing good long lasting parts than just picking a material only because it's easy and fast to machine. Aluminum has some definite property's that are well worth choosing when the parts usage demands what it has to offer. It's low weight verses strength would be only one of them. As a tool making material and especially for these parts and what long term use they'll be put to it offers no real advantages and some distinct disadvantages. It wasn't an incorrect choice for that pressed on knob since almost anything could be used for it. That aluminum still wouldn't have been a bad choice if a steel thread insert had been used. But a bit more thought should have been put into the design.
Seems like your argument could be applied to nearly any aluminum part that has threads. "Oh, the threads will wear out faster than the screw, aluminum is not suitable."
@@Hirudin It's not "my" argument at all, as I said those are basic engineering concepts and there based on well thought out logic. Threads in aluminum can and do work just fine even with steel threaded fasteners. Most engine blocks today are aluminum with steel bolts or studs threaded into those aluminum engine blocks. But at most those bolts might be used 2-3 times in the engines lifetime, or maybe never. So there's still good engineering reasons why those aluminum threads by themselves will work for the intended job. Steel threaded spark plugs are also used into aluminum heads, but again it's likely an average engine will see less than 5-8 sets of new plugs in it's whole life.For something that's going to be used a lot just like that fine adjustment, then as I said mild steel, hardened tool steel or threaded inserts would be the much better choice.
Guys think
If you use steel you will short circuit the magnetic field and the base will not work hence Ali is correct
@@stuarthardy4626 I have real doubts anything magnetic n the top of the base would be an issue at all since my Starrett and Mit magnetic bases use steel for there screwed in vertical rods. There designed so the magnetic field is directed out the base and there's hardly any through the top. But non magnetic 304, 316 stainless would still get you far more durable threads than aluminum.
@@turningpoint6643 This is why Engineering needs to be informed by practical experience. The aluminum threads will last effectively infinitely in this use case. Not even close to being a concern.
Cool project!
Me & my cnc just can't make this. Would you make it it & sell it to me? If there is a specific NORA holder that I need to buy I would to buy first. Very good video, but I kinda miss John's "smiling face"!
great video i was looking at your base op 2 and i can see the models position in the stock is not representative of where it would actually be after the prior ops which i think is why you had to go back and add the 0.01 to get the tool path to generate. on a side note are you sure noga isn't going to have a problem with you showing everyone how to knock off their adjustable bases :-)
Very neat.....but there is a simpler mechanism design, it looks like a hinge and the bottom of the hinge is attached to the base and the top of the hinge gets the mag column.....there is a screw....like in this design ...... with a spring that pushes the hinge apart.
The hinge can be a simple U shaped bend on it's side made from a piece of springy steel that the screw pushes apart.
BTW, how does that low profile vice on the mill work.....I can't see any tightening mechanism.
At around the 3:00 mark you show the M8x1. 25 as inches (M8x1.25") , one hell of an M8 you got there! ;)
Great little project, have done some similar ones at work, nowhere near as pretty as these are though!
I sat at that mark really confused for a moment. "why would you want a 1.25" pitch on an m8?! what???" glad to see someone else noticed!!
Any chance of sharing the cad file? Was curious to see the exact settings of the tools used, also what about modeling in a given software followed by an external CAM software like MasterCAm
Mastercam toolpaths are pretty much the same as fusion just called different names. Like 3d contour in fusion is called a waterline in mastercam.
@@wildin13 thus I feel the integration fusion 360 offers is unbeatable
@@avitolourenco I agree! Fusion does have its down sides, its not as powerful for example but you also don't need upgraded packages to use 5 axis toolpaths unlike mastercam.
As a whole and considering the low cost I genuinely think it cant be dismissed as a serious option.
@@wildin13 given i'm a student and have unlimited access to Fusion 360 for free, at the moment nothing can beat that.
Are those Belleville washers?
D & J Machine Yes.
Yes they are. Their springload is used in this application to give the preload it needs to prevent any slop.
What is a f3D format? interested in building my own, is there another format available?. You're right about the fine adjust at the top close to the indicator. It's almost worthless up there.
Fusion 360. It's a CAD package from Autodesk and is often recommended for beginners because it has a free version for hobbyists/individuals.
Noga in Polish language means Leg
In Swedish it is: to be precise/accurate.. :)
Okay, but how's the reamer? how much um runout on end?
Anyone know what type of washers he used? A McMaster part number would be great.
Seems a long winded way to chamfer small holes. Why not use drill op, select chamfer tool, set your bottom height to chamfer width and plunge in one?
1:04 i would move y axis.in this example
I would be using 3D Adaptive for the second operation, not 2D. Much less fussy and based on actual stock definition.
Отличная идея
belleville spring
using fusion 360 is a no go for me now
Since you do not care about copying the exact design of the fine adjust base, why do you keep its triangular shape? Just mill it square and save yourself a set of soft jaws.
Really? They aren't allowed to show their product off on youtube? He could have also just used some material from the scrap bin and drill the 4 holes on a drill press
@@chrisnorth3458 Of course they are. And it looks a lot nicer that way. I was just offering a simpler, faster and uglier alternative :)
@@chrisnorth3458 Is it really a product they sell though? Since it's pretty much a straight up copy of Nogas design, they may take issue with that? But, there are tons of Chinese copies of the entire Noga arms so :) Who knows, the cheap copies may even increase sales for Noga when people who originally wouldnt have bought them due to prices realize that they want the better original part after using the cheap copy :P Companies buying metrology equipment likely wont go for the copies anyway.
Ummmm....what about the coolant that is in the base?
Theres no coolant in noga.bases
Those are NOT tapered washers !
What a terrible name for a company....
first
Would you stop doing that