Apparently in a new book "Disney High: The Untold Story of the Rise and Fall of Disney Channel's Tween Empire", more is discussed on this topic. I cannot find the excerpts anywhere online talking about the return to halloweentown incident. If you have this book and could send me pictures of where the book talks about this, please email or DM me on instagram. Info for all of that is in my channel bio. I would really appreciate it so I could include that information here!!! Edit: THANK YOU to Mayra who sent me the excerpts super quick. I really appreciate it: Here is what the book said: It was made clear that its stars were always replaceable. Kimberly J. Brown played the lead role of teen witch Marnie Piper in the first three Halloweentown films, but when it came time to sign on for a fourth film in 2005, her contract negotiations stalled. Having starred in the network’s most successful film franchise for the better part of a decade, Kimberly and her team came to the table with a slate of what executive producer Sheri Singer termed “unusual perks.” “She wanted a rich deal,” Singer said. “It wasn’t acrimonious, but I think she wanted her mother to get a shot at writing the story or getting a producer credit, [had limits on] what publicity she would or wouldn’t do, what she wanted to get paid. There were just some things that, at least at the time, felt overreaching. And she didn’t budge.” (Brown has maintained that she was “available and ready to do” a fourth film when “Disney decided to go in a different direction.”) Still, Marsh wanted a fourth Halloweentown film, with or without Kimberly. “I know fans were really disappointed,” Singer said. “But we had one more story to tell.” They pursued two different script ideas, one of which would have been a musical, featuring songs written by Jim Wise, who played Coach Tugnut on Even Stevens. They decided on the non-musical version, and Sara Paxton, who had auditioned for virtually every DCOM since Smart House, was offered the part of the replacement Marnie in Return to Halloweentown. But no matter how delightful and charming Sara was in the role, she wasn’t Kimberly, and many fans didn’t appreciate or understand the change. “It’s kind of sad because every year like clockwork around Halloween time, the hate messages rain down upon my Twitter and Instagram,” Sara said. “Sara Paxton sucks. We miss the old Marnie. It’s like, do you guys think that we had a fistfight in a parking lot or something? I didn’t attack her! It is what it is. They asked me, and I said yes.” _______________________ So... All of this is from SHERI SINGER which still had a completely different story or outlook than David Jackson did from my original research. Either Kimberly was initially approached and had "unrealistic expectations" or she was recasted because they liked Sara better. This really doesn't change the contents of the video because David's quote feels more accurate given J Paul's interview kind of backling up that narrative. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. I also think the fact that Sara auditioned for so many DCOM's kind of makes me a bit more understanding as to why she accepted the role. I don't know where this author got their sources, but what do you all think?
There’s no way they were thinking of making the fourth Halloweentown a musical 😂 They were really thinking “Hey, let’s replace the main actor, change the setting to college, reduce screentime for the grandmother and the younger sister and many beloved halloweentown creatures, and change the love interest again. And maybe we’ll make it a musical” Lol I can’t
I agree, truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Execs are often reluctant to pay their talent and crew fairly, and if KJB didn't want to budge on certain stipulations -- I hardly believe letting her mother write the script was a demand -- then they were willing to recast, save their budget, and "check her ego" in the process 🙄 She probably also rejected the script. Return to Halloween Town is just a drastically different movie from the first three. I can't believe it's even the same universe.
@@emphoenixcat1110 ok but I CAN see them think about Halloweentown being a musical. High School Musical came out in 2006 so that kinda checks out a bit!
If it comes down to age and money, Sarah may have had the edge if she was asking for less and the producers wanted to go younger so they could extend the movie series longer.
The Disney Channel themselves had Jason Earles playing a supposed 16 year old Jackson on Hannah Montana when he was 29. By the time of the final season, Jackson was 19 and Jason was 34 in real life.
I couldn't imagine the gut punch Kimberley felt assuming she'd come back and excited to film with the original cast again and getting told everyone but her is returning
You have no idea the confusion I felt in my little kid brain when I was like, “That’s not Marnie, who is that person?” We literally ALL noticed, and it made us all sad.
When I first watched this movie my brain knew something was off I literally couldn't figure out what was wrong with the movie and it also just didn't feel right like the other movies but now seeing this and looking back I can definitely say I can't believe I didn't realize that wasn't the original Marnie I am so upset that I did not realize it wasn't her and looking back now I can definitely say that this movie wasn't good so disappointing
So weird because the character was going to college. She was supposed to “look older”. The last movie wasn’t that long after the third so it makes no sense
She for sure looked young enough and still current day looks very young. It always made me disappointed and detached from the movie with the recasted Marney.
Anyone ever notice that after the first Halloweentown, they started making the creatures look less monstrous. Like y’all notice the difference between Luke in the first movie vs the second? Then the third one has creatures disguised as humans for most of the film. And then I feel like the fourth one only has one creature which is only there to show Marnie’s compassion for the outcasts. Like Disney took a good film with a good message and then slowly changed it back into a beauty contest. And recasting Marnie as Sara Paxton was the cherry on top of it all
I think the “age” excuse is that they wanted someone thinner and “hotter.” Remember, this was the time when girls were either skin and bones or “fat.” And the media only showed stick thin girls. In Lizzie McGuire, the girl playing Miranda said she was considered the “fat friend” compared to Hillary Duff. Which then just a few years later when Hillary grew hips and boobs, she was called fat. This was when eating disorders were RAMPANT (Lindsey Lohan, Mary Kate Olsen, Demi Lovato, etc.) among teen stars because the media would not accept anything else. I always attributed recasting Kimberly was because of her weight.
Yea I considered this. I didn't point it out in the video because I'm not going to make KJB's image the forefront of this topic as I found it could come off as disrespectful. But I could absolutely see a bunch of men sitting in a room going "this one is objectively prettier for 2006 standards" and its really deplorable to say the least. At the end of the day, I think they just wanted any excuse to cast another girl and I want the executives responsible to own up to it. I think they need to publicly apologize to KJB.
Danielle fishel was curvy and a star on boy meets world but yea so many stars were really thin at the time. Hilary duff developed an eating disorder also on Degrassi one of the stars had an eating disorder and it honestly negatively affects your looks like your hair face etc but you can be thin and healthy
It’s not even weight, it’s more body type, which was huge(and still is even if not as much) a huge problem with the”skinny craze” of that time. If you had a body type that wasn’t stick straight you could never be skinny enough to be in Hollywood without being fat shamed.
@@oooh19 Yeah, but they also had storylines dedicated to Topanga's body image, even though she had a perfectly normal body. I'm not saying the message Boys Meets World were trying to convey was wrong, but it really reflects the way society perceived girls and women's bodies at the time, that if they weren't stick thin that means they're seen as fat.
That age excuse feels so weird and like a cover up to me, because she physically passed as 18 at the time, and Sarah could've passed as early 20s (no disrespect to either of them). It feels like Jackson wanted to replace Kimberly and the brother characters but didn't have an actual reason. Kimberly has been so brave and positive all these years, I really admire her for it.
I think the fourth movie should've kept Kimberly as Marnie and cast Sara (with her natural blond hair) only as Splendora/young Aggie. It would've been the best of both worlds.
I would agree ONLY if they worked on her accent. But honestly Sara would have had so much more impact as a comedic friend to Marnie. Sara is so hilarious so if they had her casted as someone similar to Aqua in her previous film, it would have been well received. She could have been the love interest for Dylan or something.
She’s too old to play a college student but let’s not talk about the elephant in the room that was Miley Cyrus’s 33 yr old tv brother in Hannah Montana playing a 19 yr old 🥴 Like, no shade on him, just sayin.
He’s currently 47. But when he started that role, he was 29 playing a 16 yr old. Kinda like the lady that played Moaning Myrtle in Harry Potter was also in her 30s in that role…which makes that bath scene awkward. Tbh idk if they actually filmed that scene together or if she was edited in.
@@ravenm6443 I knew that bit about Moaning Myrtle. Well I thought at the most that dude was like 21 playing 16. Must have been doing a fair job then I guess.
I was in middle school when Halloweentown 4 came out and I remember being so upset at Marnie being recast. And even at 12 years old, I immediately knew that they’d gotten rid of Kimberly because she was less “conventionally attractive”. Which is absolutely ridiculous, because she’s beautiful! But she wasn’t the waifish, model-like actress that reigned supreme at the time, and Sara was. The movie was bad no matter how you slice it, but recasting Marnie was unnecessary. Of course, no one is ever going to admit that they cast Sara because she was thinner and “prettier”, because can you imagine the shitstorm that would cause? Kimberly was not big by any stretch of the imagination, and even 18 years later, them admitting it would cause massive outcry. I’m sure they told Kimberly all sorts of things about why she was recast, but I doubt they ever actually said they wanted someone thinner and prettier. The age thing reads to me like a thinly veiled admission with plausible deniability.
My preteen heartbreak of the recasting completely overshadowed how terrible this movie was, and I don't see why I should pretend it exists 😤 sorry Aquaymarine
@@theofficialVEVOformu I disagree, while the third one was pretty bad, it still felt like it took place in the same universe. The fourth doesn't feel like that at all.
I treat the last Halloween town movie like it doesn't exist. I felt the same when they replaced Rachel Weisz in the mummy movie we don't talk about (besides the Tom Cruz disaster)
I think Kimberly does know why. I just think one, Kimberly doesn’t want to stir the pot and create drama, and two, it’s possible there’s some mild bitterness about it and so deflecting to “ask Disney” is both a, I don’t want to cause drama but also “Disney why do you tell fans the ridiculous reason you recast me!” Without directly saying it. And I love Daniel’s response to being asked about HT4 😂 we all feel that! Tbh, as much as I’d have wanted her to return, if this movie was really that bad, regardless of if she had been in it, it’s best she wasn’t. She got to end it on a high.
I do think that Daniel's response might be a hint that there's some bitterness that she's admirably keeping to herself for the sake of the fanbase. That just gave me major "I'm going to go ahead and say what my partner feels like she's not allowed to say" vibes.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I disagree that Sara Paxton has any blame in this. She was offered a role and took it. She didn't weasel it out from under Kimberly. She did nothing manipulative or sneaky to "steal" the role. Hell, she was probably confused herself about why Kimberly wasn't recast in the role in the first place. But actors gotta work, and she just did the job that would've been given to another actor had she not taken it. It's not on her. And before anyone comes for me, I too was thrown off by the recasting and didn't like the 4th movie as much because it wasn't Kimberly. I would've preferred her to keep the role. I'm simply saying that Sara did nothing wrong. That's all.
I also grew up to respect Kimberly and Danniel so much after all of this. I'm of course a huge fan of Halloween Town but the way they have carried on the legacy with so much love is everything. Also the end.. Debbie Reynolds will truly always be grandmother to so many. One of the main reasons I fell in love with Halloweentown as a kid was because she reminds me of my grandma. So much love for this video, all was so well said.
Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher were so genuinely amazing and so was their love for one another as mother & daughter. I see Debbie on screen and I just see love. That feels very rare in Hollywood. I hope this video portrays respect to the people involved in Halloweentown & especially to Kimberly. I really just want to emphasize the impact her role in these movies were & how that will never be forgotten.
@@sassygrilledcheese I completely feel the same and had the same feeling watching the video. I love how you covered all the topics and made sure to mention how really none of this is on the actors, just the casting/higher ups.
Sara is never going to say Kimberley should’ve been casted in the fourth movie, because that completely discredits her reputation/dignity in terms of getting hired on future sets and in the grand scheme of things Kimberly getting fired is not her fault. If a company forced out an older worker because they don’t want to pay a current salary, and then they hired a new unsuspecting younger worker who didn’t know the full company drama would we expect the younger worker to make an announcement saying old guy deserves the job? Expectations shouldn’t be different for creative roles
I personally disagree. I think there should be some level of expectation to address it today if she is contractually allowed to. Even with your analogy its not quite the same because people don't have a massive audience they share their work details to. If I hypothetically was the younger employee and then found out what happened to the previous person, if I had any kind of relationship or means of communication I would let them know that what happened wasn't right. Her saying something does not discredit her reputation in fact it would show support for another actress. I think her pretending like it wasn't a huge deal is a bit of a grey line though. I still have nothing against Sara, just my opinion - Thank you for watching!
This is how I feel. I don’t think it’s fair to put that onus of responsibility on a young actor. Also, I wouldn’t pressure her to say something publicly that could burn any bridges with Disney or casting directors. It would be nice if she said KJB should’ve been in it or acknowledged how fans felt, but I’m sure that’s embarrassing for her to admit that no one wanted her in that role except the company lol. I never liked the fourth one and I skipped it all the time as a kid in solidarity with KJB though
i genuinely thought the girl from the fourth one was supposed to be a different character, I legit do not remember being told she was supposed to be marnie
I also thought she was a completely different character, and almost thought it was a different franchise entirely with how wildly different the 4th movie is to the first 3.
Marnie was my favorite on-screen witch character when I was a kid, I watched every Halloweentown movie when it was new and religiously every year I would re watch the first 2 movies. I dressed up as Marnie for so many halloweens, made my own dress and hat and everything. It was so great getting to see a character that looked so much like me, dark hair and eyes, round baby face, the dimples, being the big sister and trying to be her own person. I wasn't super fond of the 3rd movie, but the fourth movie made me so upset, I frequently forget that there are 4 movie because of it. I haven't kept up with the cast so finding out the Kimberly and Daniel got married just made my heart melt, and knowing she is doing so much to keep the franchise alive for folks is amazing. No shade to Sara Paxton, she just isn't Marnie, and that movie did the whole generation dirty.
It'd be amazing if they made another Halloweentown with Kimberly J Brown as a mom or aunt or something, but there's a moment where one of the new kids asks if she went to college and she looks at the camera and just goes, "No, I didn't. :) But I've done all this other fullfilling witchy / personal achievment stuff but Dylan and Sophie did! Dylan went to - insert prestigious mortal school - and Sophie went to Halloweentown U / studied under Grandma" or somethinnnggg like that. 😂
Truly one of the greatest injustices in pop culture. I only ever watch the first two movies because they're the most focused & interesting to me. I truly wish we got a fifth movie where we get to see OG Marnie & her family & what they're up to & kind of wrap up their story. Especially with Luke & Marnie!
casting directors must not know what actual children look like. if you think someone who looks like a teenager is too old to play a teenager then maybe the problem is you?
Watching the trailer for Return to Halloweentown and realizing Kimberley had been replaced was such a slap in the face. I will never forget that moment.
I always assumed that the original actress couldn’t or didn’t want to do it. What a wild turn of events to realize that she was excited to return and they didn’t want her??
The age thing is hilarious to me. Kimberly was the age of the character in all the other movies! She was 13 during the first movie and the character in the movie is 13! It's not her fault y'all took your time making Return to Halloweentown! It completely is just a bs excuse for sure. It is also hilarious to me that they'd care about not having a teenager play a teen character for this movie only. They had wild age gaps in other movies for romances where there'd be a teenager actor to play a teenager and an adult to play the teen love interest! Yet that was always okay?!
Agreed! Regina George was played by a 25 year old woman..... Also, KJB looked like a college student. She's almost 40 and still looks like she's in her late 20s - but even if she didn't, it was so messed up to even consider recasting her role. If they wanted to bank on Sara's Aquamarine success, they could have had her in the movie as a bubbly supporting character. Everyone knows the supporting characters get the most attention from audiences anyways!! UGH so frustrating. also HUGE emphasis on the age gaps you're referring to. I can tell you watch my videos LOL
@@sassygrilledcheese EXACTLY! Yes, I love your videos :) It's all such bs because it's so common in every movie ever and in Disney movies that were made/airing in those same years!
I always thought it was because they wanted a really popular actress to lead the film and Sara Paxton was fairly popular at the time, Aquamarine came out earlier that year. And I think looks might have been a factor, Sara had more "conventionally attractive modelesque" features compared to Kimberly. It's fucked up but yeah, it's plausible. This whole age crap is new to me.
Iirc Jon Cooksey who was the executive producer for the first two seasons has come out and said that Cara DeLizia (Fi) just wanted to work on other projects. Disney also just so happened to decide that they wanted So Weird to move in a lighter direction and my personal theory that has zero backing is it's possible she was like well if that's going to happen, I'm just going to go. That whole shift is actually interesting once you go down the rabbit hole since they did have a much darker plan for the show with episode pitches where Fi went to Hell to save her dad. Also, fun fact, part of Jon Cooksey's deal in leaving So Weird was that he would do other projects of Disney instead, one of which was Halloween Town 2. EDIT (because this sent me back down the rabbit hole): Apparently, Cara is included in the book mentioned in the video, Disney High, and she says her mother "asked for her to be removed from her contract to pursue other projects. The network complied."
They wanted to fullfill the hott teen daughter troupe that was still popular at that time. Kimberly was curvey and that wasn't in for lead casting. That's the quiet part out loud right there 💯
Ah I was looking forward to this one. Also, me and my sister are looking forward to your Hex girls video, we have plans to watch it together, so excited!
I don’t blame Sara Paxton. She was 18 and acting is an unstable job. When you’re presented with an opportunity you take it because you may not have another one waiting.
Yea as I said in the video, the only thing I really hold her accountable for is not really addressing how KJB may have felt during that time in present day & I still think she should have said no. That doesn't change my opinion that she possibly was pressured to take the role though. If she said no to the role, they probably would have casted another girl anyways. If I give her any blame for this, it would less than 5% compared to the executives who made this choice.
I always felt bad for Sara Paxton. It always seemed like disney wanted to use halloweentown 4 as a vehicle into mainstream disney for her. She was the full package disney star they were looking for, she'd even release some music with aquamarine. Disney just didnt realize how much the fans loved the actors and it backfired
they could have made Sarah play Sophie and say Marnie was off studying abroad and just switched the romantic interest and I would have accepted it as a spinoff movie
I think I’m just anti recast, period!! I know Emily retired but Sara herself deserved an original role that would showcase her strengths as an actress! She was very funny in Aquamarine and I think they should have honed in on that. She would have been a lot more impactful culturally if she played marnie’s friend.
@@sassygrilledcheese they could have even said it was a generation skip and it was marnies kid so she could be "keeping the legend of the Cromwell strong " as a character growth storyline about being worried about if she lives up or whatever,, anything that shines on her talents as an actress
I honestly feel like Disney is starting a trend of ruining classic witchy Halloween sequels by trying to stay on trend and soley trying to go after new generations of kids to watch it. Hocus Pocus 2 and Halloweentown 4 both tanked because of this. There is a way to still cater to a new generation and still give homage and respect to the core audience that made it what it is today. I’m forever hoping they will fix it with new sequels and do it soon. (And btw there were parts of Hocus Pocus 2 that were good. I’m not disputing that. Spoiler alert: Especially the scenes of the young Sanderson sisters. The girl who played Winifred killed it. But I really hope Disney will get back to basics, plug in as much of the old cast as possible, use the same formula that worked with the first one and can still plug in the new characters as well. It’s not impossible but it does take time, love and care.)
i remember Kimberly as a little kid on the soap “Guiding Light”, and was impressed by her talent. sometimes being a good actress isn’t enough to be a superstar.
Even though I was not happy at all with the chance, I always felt a little bad for Sara due to the backlash. She likely had a very specific script she was contractually obligated to use during interviews.
oh he gonna have regrets cuz imma cyber bully him. i was so mad when they recast marnie. i watch all the movies every year except the last one because i decided its not cannon and i dont accept it
Very well put together, I really enjoyed watching this and hearing more about it. I refused to watch the 4th after she had been recast. It's the same reason why I wont watch the 3rd Mummy movie when they replaced Evelyn.
If Sarah said no, they would've just cast someone else. If they didn't want Kimberly, Sarah saying no wouldn't change that. There was no reason for her to turn down the job. That's like saying a new cashier shouldn't take the job because the job only opened up because the company fired one prior to hiring the new one.
I expand on my opinion on this in other comments but I still think she should at least acknowledge that the role should have been played by kimberly. It is just the right thing to do. I do not see this as the same as taking a cashier job.
I never understood why they made Ethan Marnie’s love interest when there was no hint in the third film that they liked each other. What happened to Cody and Luke?
recasting Marnie was still one of the biggest Disney betrayals, like..did they think we wouldnt notice?? Other note: I always thought Luke should have been in the third movie because of course he would join a program to go the human world and hang out with Marnie in the process! (maybe they would have ended up together like i wanted as a kid, maybe not) but I know he quit acting after the second movie so Im not mad about it or anything, just something that bugged me as a child lol.
@@sassygrilledcheese lol right?? he was always one of my favorites too and i liked that we saw more of him in the sequel. i always shipped them so hard as a kid. (woulda made more sense than her ending up with ethan)
Yeah, I definitely shipped them together. Was disappointed that he never made a comeback after the second movie. Was doubly disappointed by the fourth movie lol
@@mountain_dreamsI also hated how Ethan basically had the same character arc as Luke. Like that was just lazy writing. They really were just trying to replace Luke with a more conventionally attractive boyfriend
@ yessss, thank you for reminding me his name, I should have googled 🫠 But MY personal Roman Empire is the fact that they did get together in real life, and it heals whatever damage Return to Halloweentown *tried* to inflict upon my childhood 🥴
7:49 that was my thought from the beginning, tbh, and not just for Sarah Paxton but Kimberly J Brown, too. depending on the terms I can 100% see that being the reason neither of them can say much beyond "we have no beef" and "it wasn't up to me so I don't know," respectively, because if they legally can't give an actual recounting of events but also don't feel able to outright refuse answering those questions that's probably all either of them could think to say. plus, even if the terms freed them after some period and they could finally say something now after all these years that still put them both in a tough spot because that could so easily be turned back on them as evidence of deceiving and lying to fans for years
Even if they think she didn’t look young enough for the character, casting an entirely different person to replace her was way more distracting and confusing than her looking “too old” for the character. She was the main character for 3 full movies, did they really think they could just cast a different actor 4 movies in, without confusing and rubbing people the wrong way?
I love the Halloween movies. Mostly the first two. The third one is quite dull, so I don’t really care for that one. As For Sarah being cast, I think we shouldn’t really blame her much because she was 18. And when you’re that young and you’re being booked for roles, I’m sure she was being overzealous and didn’t really think about how big of a deal this was to the fans. I just think she’s not very good at explaining that.
This in one instance that I believe most would be perfectly fine with an older actress/ actor playing a younger role. This is like the exception for doing it, to keep the main characters going to the end. You just don’t make creepy scenes with with them unless the other actors with them are also adult actors playing younger characters.
Being normal is vastly overrated - Being a Sassy Grilled Cheesehead means amazing content. I love this and like every grilled cheese experience, I want more.🧀
As someone who lovesnstilldoeslove Halloweentown, I was also sad to see the recast. But as an adult now, I understand things I couldn't have at the time at that age.... and though I am still sad the original actress didn't get to choose to continue on with the movies, I think I understand the "inexplainable divine decision" that may have come upon the decision. I think it would be quite interesting to see a future movie with *both* of them in it to tie it together....🤔 😜
If I had to guess the reason they chose Sarah in particular it’s because she had a fairly popular show called “Darcy’s wildlife” that just ended on Disney around the time of the fourth movie. She basically played a bimbo from the city living on farm and was sexualized quite a bit for a kids show, daisy duke’s basically. Same thing in aquamarine, she’s half naked the whole time wearing “only a Tshirt” which they make sure the audience knows is all she’s wearing. The original actors were starting to not appeal to them anymore because they assumed sex sells more than talent and looking the part. You could tell Disney wanted her to be the next “it girl” and were setting things up for her. (this was before Hannah Montana got super popular and they switched to Miley). Disney also has a huge issue with their actors gaining weight and will do shady things to address it, Raven comes to mind. Disneys hiring after the “Disney channel original” phase was less on kids looking like kids and having a cool talent and more on if a fan would have a crush on the actor. I also think Sarah is more naive and controllable than Kimberly. It’s desirability politics and it’s gross to see it happen especially in kid shows. Capitalism is a direct adversary to art and the integrity surrounding it.
Good analysis. I remember Raven being the target for this so often but they couldn't do much because she was such a driving force on their network. Even as a kid I remember reading the tiger beat magazines referring to her weight and going "huh?????". I never saw Darcy's wildlife but all the things you're saying makes sense and the timing of Hannah montana coming out and Sarah being quickly forgotten about does not feel like a coincidence. People like to assume that me saying "Kimberly should have played marnie" is an attack on Sarah but really, Sarah ALSO deserved better! This type of decision affected everyone. Sarah deserved a path that was suitable to her strengths as an actress and deserved ORIGINAL roles.
I am going to say the uncomfortable and quiet part out loud. The age excuse makes absolutely no sense, and I just don't buy it. Especially since Hollywood is known for casting people in their 30s to play high schoolers. What I genuinely believe happened is, they wanted a more physically attractive lead. There it is. I believe along with Sara making a name for herself in young Hollywood, they thought with her beauty she would make the franchise even more popular and in return bring more profit. But it blew up in their face because we grew up on the original Marney and did not appreciate seeing our childhood witch being switched out like old socks. I genuinely feel it was all about vanity.
Imagine how different the movie would have been if the cast stood together and refused to do a fourth unless Kimberly was cast. Seems like they were getting way too high and mighty in the casting department, they needed to be taken down SEVERAL pegs.
I remember looking in the printed TV guide for when Return to Halloweentown was scheduled to air on Family Channel in Canada, finding the slot, and thinking it was the wrong movie because Sara Paxton wasn’t the Marnie i knew but she was the top billed actress, she was Darcy from Darcy’s Wild Life. I thought it was wrong until i tuned in at the listed time and then damn everyone was the same except for her. Without backstory i thought it’s a good movie, but growing up with KJB it was a shock to see someone else i knew playing that character. The saddest part, i feel like this did nothing positive for Sara Paxton’s career. She’s a really talented actress, but she’s gone basically nowhere mainstream no matter how hard they tried to push her.
casey ur so funny i love ur vids i genuinely quote surprise surprise & aquayamarine like daily & It feels like an inside joke like were part of a club never stop being u or making vids ty ily
halloweentown be like : noone is going to know *Casting an New Marnie* the fans and viewers : that's not Marnie easy answer : disney they should had not make an fourth movie and if Halloweentown gets an reboot , recasted Kimberly J. Brown as Marnie but she's an Mom with Daughters taking over Witch Training for her Grandma Aggie Legacy
Honestly Judith Hoag carried this movie for me. The only parts I actually enjoyed were her scenes trying to sell a house but looking crazy when she's caught talking to inanimate things.
I always thought the girl at the fourth movie was the little sister Sophie. Never noticed that was a recast (but that explains why I never understood why Dylan and the girl were at the same time at university)
Can you please do Another Cinderella Story and Phantom of the Megaplex? Also right on track, double teamed, eddie’s million dollar cook off, zenon, read it and weep, stuck in the suburbs, model behavior (hard to find), big fat liar and the thirteenth year lmao. So many DCOM movies that not enough people talk about. I feel like the main ones people talk about are high school musical, camp rock, cheetah girls, and descendants.
Apparently in a new book "Disney High: The Untold Story of the Rise and Fall of Disney Channel's Tween Empire", more is discussed on this topic. I cannot find the excerpts anywhere online talking about the return to halloweentown incident. If you have this book and could send me pictures of where the book talks about this, please email or DM me on instagram. Info for all of that is in my channel bio. I would really appreciate it so I could include that information here!!!
Edit: THANK YOU to Mayra who sent me the excerpts super quick. I really appreciate it:
Here is what the book said:
It was made clear that its stars were always replaceable. Kimberly J. Brown played the lead role of teen witch Marnie Piper in the first three Halloweentown films, but when it came time to sign on for a fourth film in 2005, her contract negotiations stalled. Having starred in the network’s most successful film franchise for the better part of a decade, Kimberly and her team came to the table with a slate of what executive producer Sheri Singer termed “unusual perks.” “She wanted a rich deal,” Singer said. “It wasn’t acrimonious, but I think she wanted her mother to get a shot at writing the story or getting a producer credit, [had limits on] what publicity she would or wouldn’t do, what she wanted to get paid. There were just some things that, at least at the time, felt overreaching. And she didn’t budge.” (Brown has maintained that she was “available and ready to do” a fourth film when “Disney decided to go in a different direction.”)
Still, Marsh wanted a fourth Halloweentown film, with or without Kimberly. “I know fans were really disappointed,” Singer said. “But we had one more story to tell.” They pursued two different script ideas, one of which would have been a musical, featuring songs written by Jim Wise, who played Coach Tugnut on Even Stevens. They decided on the non-musical version, and Sara Paxton, who had auditioned for virtually every DCOM since Smart House, was offered the part of the replacement Marnie in Return to Halloweentown.
But no matter how delightful and charming Sara was in the role, she wasn’t Kimberly, and many fans didn’t appreciate or understand the change. “It’s kind of sad because every year like clockwork around Halloween time, the hate messages rain down upon my Twitter and Instagram,” Sara said. “Sara Paxton sucks. We miss the old Marnie. It’s like, do you guys think that we had a fistfight in a parking lot or something? I didn’t attack her! It is what it is. They asked me, and I said yes.”
_______________________
So... All of this is from SHERI SINGER which still had a completely different story or outlook than David Jackson did from my original research. Either Kimberly was initially approached and had "unrealistic expectations" or she was recasted because they liked Sara better. This really doesn't change the contents of the video because David's quote feels more accurate given J Paul's interview kind of backling up that narrative. Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. I also think the fact that Sara auditioned for so many DCOM's kind of makes me a bit more understanding as to why she accepted the role. I don't know where this author got their sources, but what do you all think?
Not Coach Tugnut 😂
There’s no way they were thinking of making the fourth Halloweentown a musical 😂
They were really thinking “Hey, let’s replace the main actor, change the setting to college, reduce screentime for the grandmother and the younger sister and many beloved halloweentown creatures, and change the love interest again. And maybe we’ll make it a musical”
Lol I can’t
I agree, truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Execs are often reluctant to pay their talent and crew fairly, and if KJB didn't want to budge on certain stipulations -- I hardly believe letting her mother write the script was a demand -- then they were willing to recast, save their budget, and "check her ego" in the process 🙄 She probably also rejected the script. Return to Halloween Town is just a drastically different movie from the first three. I can't believe it's even the same universe.
@@emphoenixcat1110 ok but I CAN see them think about Halloweentown being a musical. High School Musical came out in 2006 so that kinda checks out a bit!
If it comes down to age and money, Sarah may have had the edge if she was asking for less and the producers wanted to go younger so they could extend the movie series longer.
Hollywood regularly casts 30+ year olds as 14 year olds every day, but a 21 year old playing 18 is too crazy?!?!
I know right lol
The Disney Channel themselves had Jason Earles playing a supposed 16 year old Jackson on Hannah Montana when he was 29. By the time of the final season, Jackson was 19 and Jason was 34 in real life.
Ikr?!
I couldn't imagine the gut punch Kimberley felt assuming she'd come back and excited to film with the original cast again and getting told everyone but her is returning
Exactly. And that is what I feel like what needs to be brought to light.
@sassygrilledcheese love the name by the way 😆😆
Especially when she created the character. It was her role.
You have no idea the confusion I felt in my little kid brain when I was like, “That’s not Marnie, who is that person?” We literally ALL noticed, and it made us all sad.
When I first watched this movie my brain knew something was off I literally couldn't figure out what was wrong with the movie and it also just didn't feel right like the other movies but now seeing this and looking back I can definitely say I can't believe I didn't realize that wasn't the original Marnie I am so upset that I did not realize it wasn't her and looking back now I can definitely say that this movie wasn't good so disappointing
And I legitimately think it's why we didn't want any more of it. We weren't mad mad we just were disappointed.
I was like, “Who does Marnie look so different? Is that a different actress?”
YESSSSSSS!
So weird because the character was going to college. She was supposed to “look older”. The last movie wasn’t that long after the third so it makes no sense
Yea it was a cop out I think
@@sassygrilledcheesemost definitely
The age thing is so weird, as she very much had a baby face. Same for the brother, they both looked like teens imo
Exactly!
And they are plenty of actors who are older than their characters.
@@ErinChappel Most are it is just the truth.
And they were going into COLLEGE! Totally appropriate.
She for sure looked young enough and still current day looks very young. It always made me disappointed and detached from the movie with the recasted Marney.
Anyone ever notice that after the first Halloweentown, they started making the creatures look less monstrous. Like y’all notice the difference between Luke in the first movie vs the second? Then the third one has creatures disguised as humans for most of the film. And then I feel like the fourth one only has one creature which is only there to show Marnie’s compassion for the outcasts. Like Disney took a good film with a good message and then slowly changed it back into a beauty contest. And recasting Marnie as Sara Paxton was the cherry on top of it all
tbh they did luke SO dirty with that goblin gettup. First movie was his face, 2nd was his hair. I would have been mortified at his age lol.
par for the course for disney films of the time tbh. cut the budget more and more for every sequel and stop making them when they stop making money
I think the “age” excuse is that they wanted someone thinner and “hotter.” Remember, this was the time when girls were either skin and bones or “fat.” And the media only showed stick thin girls.
In Lizzie McGuire, the girl playing Miranda said she was considered the “fat friend” compared to Hillary Duff. Which then just a few years later when Hillary grew hips and boobs, she was called fat.
This was when eating disorders were RAMPANT (Lindsey Lohan, Mary Kate Olsen, Demi Lovato, etc.) among teen stars because the media would not accept anything else.
I always attributed recasting Kimberly was because of her weight.
Yea I considered this. I didn't point it out in the video because I'm not going to make KJB's image the forefront of this topic as I found it could come off as disrespectful. But I could absolutely see a bunch of men sitting in a room going "this one is objectively prettier for 2006 standards" and its really deplorable to say the least.
At the end of the day, I think they just wanted any excuse to cast another girl and I want the executives responsible to own up to it. I think they need to publicly apologize to KJB.
Danielle fishel was curvy and a star on boy meets world but yea so many stars were really thin at the time. Hilary duff developed an eating disorder also on Degrassi one of the stars had an eating disorder and it honestly negatively affects your looks like your hair face etc but you can be thin and healthy
It’s not even weight, it’s more body type, which was huge(and still is even if not as much) a huge problem with the”skinny craze” of that time. If you had a body type that wasn’t stick straight you could never be skinny enough to be in Hollywood without being fat shamed.
highly doubt.
@@oooh19 Yeah, but they also had storylines dedicated to Topanga's body image, even though she had a perfectly normal body. I'm not saying the message Boys Meets World were trying to convey was wrong, but it really reflects the way society perceived girls and women's bodies at the time, that if they weren't stick thin that means they're seen as fat.
That age excuse feels so weird and like a cover up to me, because she physically passed as 18 at the time, and Sarah could've passed as early 20s (no disrespect to either of them). It feels like Jackson wanted to replace Kimberly and the brother characters but didn't have an actual reason. Kimberly has been so brave and positive all these years, I really admire her for it.
yup I agree, age seems like an easy "out" for them.
Thank You 6 year old me thought Sara was 20
Like the replacement actress looked significantly older to me as a kid
I think the fourth movie should've kept Kimberly as Marnie and cast Sara (with her natural blond hair) only as Splendora/young Aggie. It would've been the best of both worlds.
I would agree ONLY if they worked on her accent. But honestly Sara would have had so much more impact as a comedic friend to Marnie. Sara is so hilarious so if they had her casted as someone similar to Aqua in her previous film, it would have been well received. She could have been the love interest for Dylan or something.
The thing is…it didn’t make any sense for her to even be doing a fake accent, in the first pkace. Debbie didn’t do one!
I agree!
@@sassygrilledcheeseomg so true!
She’s too old to play a college student but let’s not talk about the elephant in the room that was Miley Cyrus’s 33 yr old tv brother in Hannah Montana playing a 19 yr old 🥴
Like, no shade on him, just sayin.
Huh, didn't know that he was the much older.
He’s currently 47. But when he started that role, he was 29 playing a 16 yr old.
Kinda like the lady that played Moaning Myrtle in Harry Potter was also in her 30s in that role…which makes that bath scene awkward. Tbh idk if they actually filmed that scene together or if she was edited in.
@@ravenm6443 I knew that bit about Moaning Myrtle. Well I thought at the most that dude was like 21 playing 16. Must have been doing a fair job then I guess.
@ he just looked really young for his age.
@@ravenm6443 it reminds me of that "how do you do, fellow kids" meme lol
I was in middle school when Halloweentown 4 came out and I remember being so upset at Marnie being recast. And even at 12 years old, I immediately knew that they’d gotten rid of Kimberly because she was less “conventionally attractive”. Which is absolutely ridiculous, because she’s beautiful! But she wasn’t the waifish, model-like actress that reigned supreme at the time, and Sara was. The movie was bad no matter how you slice it, but recasting Marnie was unnecessary.
Of course, no one is ever going to admit that they cast Sara because she was thinner and “prettier”, because can you imagine the shitstorm that would cause? Kimberly was not big by any stretch of the imagination, and even 18 years later, them admitting it would cause massive outcry. I’m sure they told Kimberly all sorts of things about why she was recast, but I doubt they ever actually said they wanted someone thinner and prettier. The age thing reads to me like a thinly veiled admission with plausible deniability.
Yep! Of course, that's just my opinion.
Exactly
Thanks for the mention. I see Kimberly and Daniel from time to time at Cons. She is extremely wholesome. Her and Daniel are definitely soulmates.
My preteen heartbreak of the recasting completely overshadowed how terrible this movie was, and I don't see why I should pretend it exists 😤 sorry Aquaymarine
It truly was very bad! Maybe Kimberly dodged this one....
@@sassygrilledcheeseI disagree the fourth one was better than the third even without Kimberly
I was little and was aware of how blasphemous this recasting was.
@@theofficialVEVOformu I disagree, while the third one was pretty bad, it still felt like it took place in the same universe. The fourth doesn't feel like that at all.
I watched the movie it was alright just wasnt halloween town
"this movie (return to halloweentown) caused the 2008 recession" once again laughing so hard I'm crying hahaha
I treat the last Halloween town movie like it doesn't exist. I felt the same when they replaced Rachel Weisz in the mummy movie we don't talk about (besides the Tom Cruz disaster)
I think Kimberly does know why. I just think one, Kimberly doesn’t want to stir the pot and create drama, and two, it’s possible there’s some mild bitterness about it and so deflecting to “ask Disney” is both a, I don’t want to cause drama but also “Disney why do you tell fans the ridiculous reason you recast me!” Without directly saying it.
And I love Daniel’s response to being asked about HT4 😂 we all feel that!
Tbh, as much as I’d have wanted her to return, if this movie was really that bad, regardless of if she had been in it, it’s best she wasn’t. She got to end it on a high.
I do think that Daniel's response might be a hint that there's some bitterness that she's admirably keeping to herself for the sake of the fanbase. That just gave me major "I'm going to go ahead and say what my partner feels like she's not allowed to say" vibes.
@ I can agree.
I agree
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I disagree that Sara Paxton has any blame in this. She was offered a role and took it. She didn't weasel it out from under Kimberly. She did nothing manipulative or sneaky to "steal" the role. Hell, she was probably confused herself about why Kimberly wasn't recast in the role in the first place. But actors gotta work, and she just did the job that would've been given to another actor had she not taken it. It's not on her.
And before anyone comes for me, I too was thrown off by the recasting and didn't like the 4th movie as much because it wasn't Kimberly. I would've preferred her to keep the role. I'm simply saying that Sara did nothing wrong. That's all.
I agree
I also grew up to respect Kimberly and Danniel so much after all of this. I'm of course a huge fan of Halloween Town but the way they have carried on the legacy with so much love is everything. Also the end.. Debbie Reynolds will truly always be grandmother to so many. One of the main reasons I fell in love with Halloweentown as a kid was because she reminds me of my grandma. So much love for this video, all was so well said.
Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher were so genuinely amazing and so was their love for one another as mother & daughter. I see Debbie on screen and I just see love. That feels very rare in Hollywood. I hope this video portrays respect to the people involved in Halloweentown & especially to Kimberly. I really just want to emphasize the impact her role in these movies were & how that will never be forgotten.
@@sassygrilledcheese I completely feel the same and had the same feeling watching the video. I love how you covered all the topics and made sure to mention how really none of this is on the actors, just the casting/higher ups.
Sara is never going to say Kimberley should’ve been casted in the fourth movie, because that completely discredits her reputation/dignity in terms of getting hired on future sets and in the grand scheme of things Kimberly getting fired is not her fault.
If a company forced out an older worker because they don’t want to pay a current salary, and then they hired a new unsuspecting younger worker who didn’t know the full company drama would we expect the younger worker to make an announcement saying old guy deserves the job? Expectations shouldn’t be different for creative roles
I personally disagree. I think there should be some level of expectation to address it today if she is contractually allowed to. Even with your analogy its not quite the same because people don't have a massive audience they share their work details to. If I hypothetically was the younger employee and then found out what happened to the previous person, if I had any kind of relationship or means of communication I would let them know that what happened wasn't right. Her saying something does not discredit her reputation in fact it would show support for another actress. I think her pretending like it wasn't a huge deal is a bit of a grey line though. I still have nothing against Sara, just my opinion - Thank you for watching!
This is how I feel. I don’t think it’s fair to put that onus of responsibility on a young actor. Also, I wouldn’t pressure her to say something publicly that could burn any bridges with Disney or casting directors. It would be nice if she said KJB should’ve been in it or acknowledged how fans felt, but I’m sure that’s embarrassing for her to admit that no one wanted her in that role except the company lol. I never liked the fourth one and I skipped it all the time as a kid in solidarity with KJB though
“The insufferable Dylan” 😂😂😂
The switch-up from “Marnie Cromwell” to “Marnie Piper” was a CRIMINAL OFFENSE.
TRULY
Yeah I was so confused by that
i genuinely thought the girl from the fourth one was supposed to be a different character, I legit do not remember being told she was supposed to be marnie
hahahahahaha
My mind refused to believe she was marnie
She didn’t act like Marnie so I’m not surprised
I also thought she was a completely different character, and almost thought it was a different franchise entirely with how wildly different the 4th movie is to the first 3.
Saaaaaame
Marnie was my favorite on-screen witch character when I was a kid, I watched every Halloweentown movie when it was new and religiously every year I would re watch the first 2 movies. I dressed up as Marnie for so many halloweens, made my own dress and hat and everything. It was so great getting to see a character that looked so much like me, dark hair and eyes, round baby face, the dimples, being the big sister and trying to be her own person. I wasn't super fond of the 3rd movie, but the fourth movie made me so upset, I frequently forget that there are 4 movie because of it. I haven't kept up with the cast so finding out the Kimberly and Daniel got married just made my heart melt, and knowing she is doing so much to keep the franchise alive for folks is amazing. No shade to Sara Paxton, she just isn't Marnie, and that movie did the whole generation dirty.
Thank you for sharing your memories! Yes, I agree. I love Sara but Kimberly should have played this part.
Don’t get me wrong I like Sara Paxton but she just is not Marnie
I heard Sara gets harassed for this every Halloween which kind of makes me feel bad for her.
honestly I always liked this movie but sarah paxton always felt so weirdly out of place in it like who is this random woman
I actually thought she did a good job as Marnie, but they should have kept Kimberly when she already played Marnie in three films.
It'd be amazing if they made another Halloweentown with Kimberly J Brown as a mom or aunt or something, but there's a moment where one of the new kids asks if she went to college and she looks at the camera and just goes, "No, I didn't. :) But I've done all this other fullfilling witchy / personal achievment stuff but Dylan and Sophie did! Dylan went to - insert prestigious mortal school - and Sophie went to Halloweentown U / studied under Grandma" or somethinnnggg like that. 😂
hahahaha omg the scenario where she would break the fourth wall would be hilarious.
Truly one of the greatest injustices in pop culture. I only ever watch the first two movies because they're the most focused & interesting to me. I truly wish we got a fifth movie where we get to see OG Marnie & her family & what they're up to & kind of wrap up their story. Especially with Luke & Marnie!
Fifth one needs kal to somehow come back as the love interest since they’re married now lol
casting directors must not know what actual children look like. if you think someone who looks like a teenager is too old to play a teenager then maybe the problem is you?
Exactly
Right?
Watching the trailer for Return to Halloweentown and realizing Kimberley had been replaced was such a slap in the face. I will never forget that moment.
They could’ve had the little sister Sophie be a teen protagonist in the movie. She was still young enough.
That’s what I thought too. It would’ve made sense to continue it that way
I always assumed that the original actress couldn’t or didn’t want to do it. What a wild turn of events to realize that she was excited to return and they didn’t want her??
isn't it crazy!?
Yep. My sister and I assumed Kimberly J Brown quit acting.
The age thing is hilarious to me. Kimberly was the age of the character in all the other movies! She was 13 during the first movie and the character in the movie is 13! It's not her fault y'all took your time making Return to Halloweentown! It completely is just a bs excuse for sure. It is also hilarious to me that they'd care about not having a teenager play a teen character for this movie only. They had wild age gaps in other movies for romances where there'd be a teenager actor to play a teenager and an adult to play the teen love interest! Yet that was always okay?!
Agreed! Regina George was played by a 25 year old woman..... Also, KJB looked like a college student. She's almost 40 and still looks like she's in her late 20s - but even if she didn't, it was so messed up to even consider recasting her role. If they wanted to bank on Sara's Aquamarine success, they could have had her in the movie as a bubbly supporting character. Everyone knows the supporting characters get the most attention from audiences anyways!! UGH so frustrating.
also HUGE emphasis on the age gaps you're referring to. I can tell you watch my videos LOL
@@sassygrilledcheese EXACTLY! Yes, I love your videos :)
It's all such bs because it's so common in every movie ever and in Disney movies that were made/airing in those same years!
Thank you!
I always thought it was because they wanted a really popular actress to lead the film and Sara Paxton was fairly popular at the time, Aquamarine came out earlier that year. And I think looks might have been a factor, Sara had more "conventionally attractive modelesque" features compared to Kimberly. It's fucked up but yeah, it's plausible. This whole age crap is new to me.
This October I rewatched the movies as part of a horror/spooky movie marathon & I didn't watch the 4th cause I refuse to acknowledge it 😂
You should look into the So Weird recasting because that got zero explanation, and Disney NEVER mentions that show at all.
I haven't heard anything about that
Iirc Jon Cooksey who was the executive producer for the first two seasons has come out and said that Cara DeLizia (Fi) just wanted to work on other projects. Disney also just so happened to decide that they wanted So Weird to move in a lighter direction and my personal theory that has zero backing is it's possible she was like well if that's going to happen, I'm just going to go. That whole shift is actually interesting once you go down the rabbit hole since they did have a much darker plan for the show with episode pitches where Fi went to Hell to save her dad. Also, fun fact, part of Jon Cooksey's deal in leaving So Weird was that he would do other projects of Disney instead, one of which was Halloween Town 2.
EDIT (because this sent me back down the rabbit hole): Apparently, Cara is included in the book mentioned in the video, Disney High, and she says her mother "asked for her to be removed from her contract to pursue other projects. The network complied."
@@raven_moonshine39 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I have to look into this more! Thanks for the tip!
They wanted to fullfill the hott teen daughter troupe that was still popular at that time. Kimberly was curvey and that wasn't in for lead casting. That's the quiet part out loud right there 💯
Its actually disgusting.
Ah I was looking forward to this one. Also, me and my sister are looking forward to your Hex girls video, we have plans to watch it together, so excited!
I'm excited to get that one out! I have something special planned for that so I can't wait to get it uploaded :)
I don’t blame Sara Paxton. She was 18 and acting is an unstable job. When you’re presented with an opportunity you take it because you may not have another one waiting.
Yea as I said in the video, the only thing I really hold her accountable for is not really addressing how KJB may have felt during that time in present day & I still think she should have said no. That doesn't change my opinion that she possibly was pressured to take the role though. If she said no to the role, they probably would have casted another girl anyways. If I give her any blame for this, it would less than 5% compared to the executives who made this choice.
This is and the 3rd Brenan Frasier Mummy are the human versions of biting into a cookie thinking it was chocolate chip and getting oatmeal raisin
lol yes that's a good analogy.
Thanks for making this! I'm thoroughly impressed with this video
Thank you so much Brett! I really appreciate that
Since the Athena p video I never understood why they recast her..
Until now. Thank you my guy for making this
The drama is completely necessary in my opinion 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
lol what? Yet they casted the Mowry Twins who were in their late twenties to be college aged. Kim was done wrong and still looks like a teen today.
"She still looks like a teen today" is far stretched. She looks good for her age? Yes, she does yet not as a teen
This made me so angry as a kid and even now as an adult because Kimberly still looks exactly the same! Pure pettiness on Disney’s part.
9:18 I saw the Sophie's Choice joke coming and would've been really disheartened if it didn't happen 😂
HAHAHA what's funny is that is absolutely something you would point out being a movie nerd.
@@sassygrilledcheese You know it! 😂
I always felt bad for Sara Paxton. It always seemed like disney wanted to use halloweentown 4 as a vehicle into mainstream disney for her. She was the full package disney star they were looking for, she'd even release some music with aquamarine. Disney just didnt realize how much the fans loved the actors and it backfired
Yea it was just a bad decision overall. I wish her the best.
"That's not my Marnie" sums up everything. thanks for making my childhood make sense
The tension from this opening XD this is the news we need to know
They wanted someone more attractive and skinny point-blank period. And it ruined it
I'm not sure! Its a bit fishy though......
they could have made Sarah play Sophie and say Marnie was off studying abroad and just switched the romantic interest and I would have accepted it as a spinoff movie
I think I’m just anti recast, period!! I know Emily retired but Sara herself deserved an original role that would showcase her strengths as an actress! She was very funny in Aquamarine and I think they should have honed in on that. She would have been a lot more impactful culturally if she played marnie’s friend.
@@sassygrilledcheese they could have even said it was a generation skip and it was marnies kid so she could be "keeping the legend of the Cromwell strong " as a character growth storyline about being worried about if she lives up or whatever,, anything that shines on her talents as an actress
now THIS is journalism 🙂↕️
I honestly feel like Disney is starting a trend of ruining classic witchy Halloween sequels by trying to stay on trend and soley trying to go after new generations of kids to watch it. Hocus Pocus 2 and Halloweentown 4 both tanked because of this. There is a way to still cater to a new generation and still give homage and respect to the core audience that made it what it is today. I’m forever hoping they will fix it with new sequels and do it soon. (And btw there were parts of Hocus Pocus 2 that were good. I’m not disputing that. Spoiler alert: Especially the scenes of the young Sanderson sisters. The girl who played Winifred killed it. But I really hope Disney will get back to basics, plug in as much of the old cast as possible, use the same formula that worked with the first one and can still plug in the new characters as well. It’s not impossible but it does take time, love and care.)
That's a good comparison! Agreed!
i remember Kimberly as a little kid on the soap “Guiding Light”, and was impressed by her talent. sometimes being a good actress isn’t enough to be a superstar.
I only recognize the first two movies as canon and that's only partially due to the unnecessary recasting.
Even though I was not happy at all with the chance, I always felt a little bad for Sara due to the backlash. She likely had a very specific script she was contractually obligated to use during interviews.
Edit- I meant Change as in cast change, not chance. But I'm not changing it because I got a heart before I saw it and don't want to lose It!
oh he gonna have regrets cuz imma cyber bully him. i was so mad when they recast marnie. i watch all the movies every year except the last one because i decided its not cannon and i dont accept it
Very well put together, I really enjoyed watching this and hearing more about it. I refused to watch the 4th after she had been recast. It's the same reason why I wont watch the 3rd Mummy movie when they replaced Evelyn.
Thank you! Also I never saw that one. Love the first two movies though.
If Sarah said no, they would've just cast someone else. If they didn't want Kimberly, Sarah saying no wouldn't change that. There was no reason for her to turn down the job. That's like saying a new cashier shouldn't take the job because the job only opened up because the company fired one prior to hiring the new one.
I expand on my opinion on this in other comments but I still think she should at least acknowledge that the role should have been played by kimberly. It is just the right thing to do. I do not see this as the same as taking a cashier job.
This is THE video I've been waiting for
I was so hyper fixated on this topic for weeks researching LOL
I never understood why they made Ethan Marnie’s love interest when there was no hint in the third film that they liked each other. What happened to Cody and Luke?
I am here for this. Thank you.
Thank you for watching!!!!!
recasting Marnie was still one of the biggest Disney betrayals, like..did they think we wouldnt notice??
Other note: I always thought Luke should have been in the third movie because of course he would join a program to go the human world and hang out with Marnie in the process! (maybe they would have ended up together like i wanted as a kid, maybe not) but I know he quit acting after the second movie so Im not mad about it or anything, just something that bugged me as a child lol.
Luke was one of my favorite characters! "I'm kinda the big cheese around here"
@@sassygrilledcheese lol right?? he was always one of my favorites too and i liked that we saw more of him in the sequel. i always shipped them so hard as a kid. (woulda made more sense than her ending up with ethan)
Yeah, I definitely shipped them together. Was disappointed that he never made a comeback after the second movie. Was doubly disappointed by the fourth movie lol
@@mountain_dreamsI also hated how Ethan basically had the same character arc as Luke. Like that was just lazy writing. They really were just trying to replace Luke with a more conventionally attractive boyfriend
@@emphoenixcat1110 actually his actor quit acting after the second movie, but probably this too considering the replacement of Marnie herself
1:43 not even two minutes in and I'm like "she slept with that dude who has no regrets" 😂
Didn’t Kimberly J Brown marry the guy who played Kalibar Jr???
Yes! They got married in April. His name is Daniel Kountz.
@ yessss, thank you for reminding me his name, I should have googled 🫠 But MY personal Roman Empire is the fact that they did get together in real life, and it heals whatever damage Return to Halloweentown *tried* to inflict upon my childhood 🥴
It's like the couple who met on set and got screwed in the edit of Don't Worry Darling "I got my check and got my man"
Your videos are my absolute favorite to watch I love putting them on while im eating some food, you are awesome!!!
ahhhhhh thank you so much!!! I hope to get to a point where I can increase my output. I appreciate your support!
@@sassygrilledcheese Of course we believe in u:) keep it up!
7:49 that was my thought from the beginning, tbh, and not just for Sarah Paxton but Kimberly J Brown, too. depending on the terms I can 100% see that being the reason neither of them can say much beyond "we have no beef" and "it wasn't up to me so I don't know," respectively, because if they legally can't give an actual recounting of events but also don't feel able to outright refuse answering those questions that's probably all either of them could think to say. plus, even if the terms freed them after some period and they could finally say something now after all these years that still put them both in a tough spot because that could so easily be turned back on them as evidence of deceiving and lying to fans for years
yea I tried my best to cover all possible scenarios lol
Even if they think she didn’t look young enough for the character, casting an entirely different person to replace her was way more distracting and confusing than her looking “too old” for the character. She was the main character for 3 full movies, did they really think they could just cast a different actor 4 movies in, without confusing and rubbing people the wrong way?
I agree!
1. Subscribed this was such an entertaining video and I love your style.
2. Kimberly J Brown is a Queen, she seems so genuine ❤
1. Thank you!!!!
2. Yes, she definitely IS a Queen !
I love the Halloween movies. Mostly the first two. The third one is quite dull, so I don’t really care for that one.
As For Sarah being cast, I think we shouldn’t really blame her much because she was 18. And when you’re that young and you’re being booked for roles, I’m sure she was being overzealous and didn’t really think about how big of a deal this was to the fans. I just think she’s not very good at explaining that.
The recast killed the next one which was hinted there would be another after the 4th one.
Sara Paxton aka Aquamarine aka A Quay Marine by Sassy Grilled Cheese
And this is why I usually skip the fourth film. Also still pissed we never got a conclusion to Kal’s return.
thank you for the long-awaited justice for marnie!! lowkey always wondered about this and happy to finally find out what happened lol
I feel like I washed this movie from my teen memory, like I forgot there was a 4th Halloween town movie at all.
This in one instance that I believe most would be perfectly fine with an older actress/ actor playing a younger role. This is like the exception for doing it, to keep the main characters going to the end. You just don’t make creepy scenes with with them unless the other actors with them are also adult actors playing younger characters.
This was very very well done 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
Thank you so much!
Being normal is vastly overrated - Being a Sassy Grilled Cheesehead means amazing content.
I love this and like every grilled cheese experience, I want more.🧀
Hi miche! Thank you
Love the channel name and your coverage of this travesty 😂!
Thank you!
As someone who lovesnstilldoeslove Halloweentown, I was also sad to see the recast. But as an adult now, I understand things I couldn't have at the time at that age.... and though I am still sad the original actress didn't get to choose to continue on with the movies, I think I understand the "inexplainable divine decision" that may have come upon the decision.
I think it would be quite interesting to see a future movie with *both* of them in it to tie it together....🤔 😜
Yup! My intent was to kind of let that "official reason" speak for itself.... We will never forgive you David Jackson!!!!!!!!
If I had to guess the reason they chose Sarah in particular it’s because she had a fairly popular show called “Darcy’s wildlife” that just ended on Disney around the time of the fourth movie. She basically played a bimbo from the city living on farm and was sexualized quite a bit for a kids show, daisy duke’s basically. Same thing in aquamarine, she’s half naked the whole time wearing “only a Tshirt” which they make sure the audience knows is all she’s wearing. The original actors were starting to not appeal to them anymore because they assumed sex sells more than talent and looking the part. You could tell Disney wanted her to be the next “it girl” and were setting things up for her. (this was before Hannah Montana got super popular and they switched to Miley). Disney also has a huge issue with their actors gaining weight and will do shady things to address it, Raven comes to mind. Disneys hiring after the “Disney channel original” phase was less on kids looking like kids and having a cool talent and more on if a fan would have a crush on the actor. I also think Sarah is more naive and controllable than Kimberly. It’s desirability politics and it’s gross to see it happen especially in kid shows. Capitalism is a direct adversary to art and the integrity surrounding it.
Good analysis. I remember Raven being the target for this so often but they couldn't do much because she was such a driving force on their network. Even as a kid I remember reading the tiger beat magazines referring to her weight and going "huh?????". I never saw Darcy's wildlife but all the things you're saying makes sense and the timing of Hannah montana coming out and Sarah being quickly forgotten about does not feel like a coincidence.
People like to assume that me saying "Kimberly should have played marnie" is an attack on Sarah but really, Sarah ALSO deserved better! This type of decision affected everyone. Sarah deserved a path that was suitable to her strengths as an actress and deserved ORIGINAL roles.
I am going to say the uncomfortable and quiet part out loud. The age excuse makes absolutely no sense, and I just don't buy it. Especially since Hollywood is known for casting people in their 30s to play high schoolers. What I genuinely believe happened is, they wanted a more physically attractive lead. There it is. I believe along with Sara making a name for herself in young Hollywood, they thought with her beauty she would make the franchise even more popular and in return bring more profit. But it blew up in their face because we grew up on the original Marney and did not appreciate seeing our childhood witch being switched out like old socks. I genuinely feel it was all about vanity.
Imagine how different the movie would have been if the cast stood together and refused to do a fourth unless Kimberly was cast. Seems like they were getting way too high and mighty in the casting department, they needed to be taken down SEVERAL pegs.
OMG I have the same sweater from Etsy!😂😂❤❤
I knew nothing about this franchise, but was enthralled anyways. You make any topic interesting. Algorithm.
Appreciate the support as always Amy!
Yeah I simply pretend the 4th movie just does not exist. Erased from my memory.
hahahahaha
omg that TEA on the casting directors!
I was REALLY proud of finding that so thank you lmao
You just unlocked how upset I was all over again 😭😂
IM SORRY
I remember looking in the printed TV guide for when Return to Halloweentown was scheduled to air on Family Channel in Canada, finding the slot, and thinking it was the wrong movie because Sara Paxton wasn’t the Marnie i knew but she was the top billed actress, she was Darcy from Darcy’s Wild Life. I thought it was wrong until i tuned in at the listed time and then damn everyone was the same except for her. Without backstory i thought it’s a good movie, but growing up with KJB it was a shock to see someone else i knew playing that character.
The saddest part, i feel like this did nothing positive for Sara Paxton’s career. She’s a really talented actress, but she’s gone basically nowhere mainstream no matter how hard they tried to push her.
Sophie was just sitting on that couch 😂
she said "good luck everyone" LOL
I loved Marine's actress. It's one of reasons why I liked the series so much. I rewatch the last one mostly out of obligation.
KJB is awesome!
casey ur so funny i love ur vids i genuinely quote surprise surprise & aquayamarine like daily & It feels like an inside joke like were part of a club never stop being u or making vids ty ily
Thank you!!!! I’m happy you enjoy my videos and I am honored that you quote them hahahaha
halloweentown be like : noone is going to know *Casting an New Marnie*
the fans and viewers : that's not Marnie
easy answer : disney they should had not make an fourth movie
and if Halloweentown gets an reboot , recasted Kimberly J. Brown as Marnie but she's an Mom with Daughters taking over Witch Training for her Grandma Aggie Legacy
Honestly Judith Hoag carried this movie for me. The only parts I actually enjoyed were her scenes trying to sell a house but looking crazy when she's caught talking to inanimate things.
OMG She was SO HILARIOUS IN THIS MOVIE!
I didn’t know there was a Halloweentown 4. I thought it stopped at 3. Dang
I always thought the girl at the fourth movie was the little sister Sophie. Never noticed that was a recast (but that explains why I never understood why Dylan and the girl were at the same time at university)
Sophie also deserved better in the series even as early as the 2nd movie!
I never knew they did a recast. But then again I was really young when the movie came out .
Can you please do Another Cinderella Story and Phantom of the Megaplex? Also right on track, double teamed, eddie’s million dollar cook off, zenon, read it and weep, stuck in the suburbs, model behavior (hard to find), big fat liar and the thirteenth year lmao. So many DCOM movies that not enough people talk about. I feel like the main ones people talk about are high school musical, camp rock, cheetah girls, and descendants.
Those are all great suggestions!
I just feel the age issue was ironic because the characters were heading to college 🤨
right!?
"they made a 4th one??" 😭
Daniel is my favorite.
The fact that Marnie and Kal are married in real life is too CUTE!!!
ugh I love them