Don't Buy This Mouthpiece
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.พ. 2023
- The world of saxophone mouthpieces is a bit of a minefield. Otto Link, Meyer, D'addario, Vandoren, there are just too many options, and if you buy one you end up not liking, well that's a lot of wasted money! But here is one mouthpiece you might want to avoid
Dexter Gordon Interview: nationaljazzarchive.org.uk/ex...
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Very wise words, Josh. I've gone down the gear rabbit hole and it's dark! I'm on Vandorens now; A6, T6 for jazz. Classical, AL3, TL5 and SP3. Can't see myself ever changing. The biggest single improvement in my tone happened when my two vintage horns were properly serviced.
Thanks Francis. Sounds like you've got yourself sorted! It's amazing how much of an impact a proper service can have. It was like night and day the last time I got my alto looked at!
Wise words and I agre even though i ve never been on that mouthpiece thing, servicing a horn is super important! Problem is most horns have some kind of problem even new horns! Now we're in I period where most horn repairmen really should be in other professions since most don't really know the saxophone! Voila!
Josh, this is GOLD!
I've been playing the sax for about 6 years now (an adult student) and I've come a long way, learning a lot about the use of my body to play the saxophone in a pleasant way and developing proficiency in using the gear.
Your vlog could not be more right!
Not only does it sum up my experiences, it explains the facts and myth busts beautifully!
Gear only goes so far and its biggest assist to the player, is to meet ergonomic needs. Material, baffle, chamber & throat size as well as tip opening and rails size only aids in facilitating ability and ease of operation as well projection and intensity of sound.
At the end of the day, we still, very much, sound like ourselves, regardless the gear.
Great presentation!
Thanks Alex, I'm glad you liked the video! Sounds like you've got a great mindset for learning the sax - the sound comes from you not the gear! Keep it up!
My tenor Otto Link Tone Edge hard rubber slant sig reissue 8, is plenty loud, plenty bright, for pop and yet it still full and dark enough for jazz. The piece that can do it all. I use it for everything, from wedding gigs, to big band lead tenor, to rock and roll gigs, to bebop west coast jazz combo, and to funky funk gigs.
I started tenor in 1979, 44 years,
& started alto in 1972, 51 years,
I'm still using Links and Meyers.
I think they Key is Know Thyself. The Setup needs to match with your preferences of resistance vs airflow and reed strength and THEN worry about face lengthy, baffle, chamber size etc.
Extremely good info. Reed match can make someone love or hate a mouthpiece at first glance.
Thanks so much for this video.😀
Wow that’s GOLD… thanks for the enlightenment… not everyone’s gonna be honest about things like this.🙏👍.. THANK YOU AGAIN‼️
As ever it's a 'trust yourself' situation. Good advice.
Exactly, no point spending money just to confuse things!
Amen! Very well stated. Please listen to him.
This is soo true! I agree 💯!
Yes mouthpieces are really expensive. I has a Eugene Rousseau studio jazz that I used for many years with a Yamaha Yas-62 and then a Selmer Mk VI Alto. I had that stolen and was given a Rousseau Jazz mouthpiece free with a 1934 Conn 6m I bought. Unfortunately the Conn and the Rousseau didn't make a good match and the intonation was completely wild. I now use an old Brilhart Tonaline on the Conn and the Rousseau on a cheaper backup Chinese Sax. They do sound different thought. The Rousseau is much brighter than the Brilhart - but yes anyone would recognize that it is the same player.
I feel like this advice holds true regardless of what (wind) instrument you play. I’m not a saxophonist, but I could tell that when I switched trumpet mouthpieces from the one I got with my trumpet to the one my late grandfather used, my tone drastically changed for the better, and I’d practiced the same amount of time across both. Now I play on Granddad’s. Mouthpiece and all. Gotta keep his spirit alive, even if he’s been gone for 20 years.
Well said. God bless you. Bill. UK
Thanks Bill!
How do you actually get to try different mpcs to find the one that suits you best without lots of (wasted) expense? I have no actual shops near me and online the mpc always seems to be excluded from being returned, obviously for hygiene reasons.
I play classical saxophone on a Selmer Concept mouthpiece + Legere Signature reed 3.5 for quite a long time and recently want switch to play smooth jazz. Tried the same setup with Legere Signature 2.25 and 2.5 but it still sounds very round and rich with no edgy/bitey tone. Do you think there is a need to change to another mouthpiece? Thank you ☺️
I've never used a Selmer Concept, so can't say anything with any certainty here, but it seems like it would be very difficult to get a smooth jazz tone out of it. It's quite common for people that split their time between classical and jazz/pop to use a different mouthpiece for classical. The classical tone is so different to a jazz/pop tone, whereas jazz and pop are a lot closer in terms of sound concept
Don’t be shy about trying different reeds…that is part of the story too.
You hit it on the head just after 6:15, "comfort". Past that, then the specific piece for the job. I have my daily practice piece for comfort and two or three others for different venues. For those I look to make them as easy to play as my practice piece. I've stumbled across a few collectables over the years in saxes I bought used, why I keep them I'm not sure. And I have one "boutique" piece, just because after 50 years of playing, I think I deserve it.
I'm curious, why do you have different pieces for different venues? Is it a style/volume thing? I've heard of players using different mouthpieces for pop/jazz/classical gigs, but never having venue-specific mouthpieces
Sorry for the delayed reply. I play a HR “classical” mouthpiece in a large wind ensemble. An Otto Link for combo gigs. And used to play a high baffle Berg Larsen for pop/funk gigs.
Depends honestly. It's not impossible to get a sound resembling David Sanborn's on an AL3 or a Selmer C Star, but it'll be a pain in the a** to get it. It's a lot more doable on a Myer 7 or Jody Jazz HR 7 though it would still be with some difficulty. You'll have an easier time getting a bright tone on something like a Jody Jazz Super-Jet 7 or a Barkley Brazil Pop Kustom 7.
Same goes the other way around. You want a sound resembling John Sampen and you got a Jumbo Java A45 or a Theo Wanne Durga? Good luck buddy, it's not impossible, but to achieve that would be the equivalent of wrestling an alligator. It's less of a struggle with a Jody Jazz Custom Dark or a Smoky Syos. However you'll have an easier time sticking to something like a Selmer Paris Concept or a Yamaha 4C.
It's a combination of what color of tone the music you're playing demands, what sound you're looking for, what your embouchure is used to doing to achieve that sound.
I can change my embouchure for the occasion just fine but sticking to 1 mouthpiece for all situations will be exhausting.
I CAN get a classical sound on my myer 7 but it's much easier on my optimum AL4. I CAN get a pop sound on my E. Rousseau Studio Jazz 7 but it's much easier to get that sound on my Jumbo Java.
Luckily for me, most of my playing revolves around Jazz and pop so I stick to the Jumbo Java, and I can get fairly dark with it to. But I can't get quite as dark as a Vandoren Optimum, so I switch to that on classical settings.
I mostly stick to those 2, however the rest I have for fun. I love comparing the little differences between each one, but that's more so a source of entertainment for whenever I'm feeling less motivated.
P.S. Clean your mouthpieces dude
Oh yeah of course different styles of mouthpiece (high baffle vs low baffle etc) will help to facilitate certain types of sounds, my point in the video is that your core sound will still sound like you, and that changing mouthpiece needs a good reason - needing a different type of sound is a legit reason.
lost me at yamaha 4c 💅🏾🍿😂
@@bohansolo I got that one for free lol, I don't even use it.
My question is, where did you get those purple corduroys?
But seriously, good video. Thanks!
They're actually just jeans - my camera colours just went a bit weird! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Very good stuff
hi, I fully agree with what you say that the mouthpiece is a personal choice and each of us has our own tone, but I must say that the set up is also important because it sometimes helps in a truly remarkable way, the emission of the sound, the dynamics etc.. but it is equally true that it has now unfortunately become a very expensive business
Maybe you could help me out with this one, I have attended a few jazz clinics and I feel my volume is really low when compared to others even though my sound is fat and many have praised it. I just have to blow into a microphone to be heard, specially when there are many musicians on the set or if the room is loud. I asked many teachers but haven't got a straight answer yet of how to solve it. One of them told me that Joe Henderson had the same issue... I love my Jody Jazz HR and I am not sure that getting another mouthpiece would solve the problem. Any thoughts on this?
That's a good question! Some mouthpieces are definitely louder than others - as a generalisation, the higher the baffle, the louder the mouthpiece, but also the brighter the sound! Joe Henderson did have a quiet spind compared to most of the other jazz greats, from what I've heard, but that probably doesn't stop you wanting to be louder! The first thing I'd recommend is making sure you're working to improve your breathing and breath support (which you may be doing already). That way, you'll be doing everything you can to get the most volume out of your horn. Then, to avoid having to switch away from a mouthpiece you like, try changing your reed strength. I quite often see people playing on reeds that are too hard for them, and not getting as much sound as they could because of that. See if going down half a strength helps. Let me know how you get on!
@@joshwakeham Thanks from answering. I am actually playing on 2.25.... It can't get much softer than that... And, BTW, that was a real war I had with all my teachers, they all play on 3 and one of them on 4... I did it my way and now it feels great to blow effortless and have a huge sound (but with 'little" volume though...). It's not a problem when playing with a trio but it is when guitar players cranck up the volume...
Ah yeah if you're already on 2.25 I wouldn't recommend going any softer! What tip opening is your Jody Jazz HR? Another thing to think about are how much mouthpiece you're putting in your mouth (the more you put in the harder it is to control the sound but the more volume you'll get).
@@joshwakeham I got it retouched by a Luther from 6* to around 9*. My tooth mark is right on top of where the Reed separates from the mothpiece, I improved that a year ago and did notice more volume.
Oh wow a 9* is a huge tip opening! Obviously I haven't heard you play so could be wrong hear, but I wouldn't be surprised if your embouchure/breath support haven't built up enough strength for a mouthpiece that large. Did you have the same volume problems before getting it refaced, or when using any other mouthpieces?
I am mostly a tenor player, and comfortable with an Otto Link with 6 opening.
I am thinking of dabbling size 7* on alto which has the same opening at 0.09 inch as the tenor 6.
Would you think for different tenor or alto instrument it is still a good idea to stick with the same opening you found a sound for?
I usually don't recommend having the exact same tip opening (e.g. 0.09'') on alto and tenor. The different size of the instrument means that having the same tip opening can end up really skewing things - a 0.105 is relatively standard tenor tip opening, but a giant one on alto. Instead I tend to recommend going for the equivalent size, so if you're using an Otto Link 6 on tenor, an Otto Link 6 on alto (or a mouthpiece with the same tip opening as the alto Otto Link 6) would be a good pick. I hope that helps!
Thanks.
I'll try with a size 6 first.
It's always a combination of everything discussed here. In variant measure. Each piece of gear, horn, mouthpiece, reed, instrument setup, and practice, intention, preheating, the farther up the food chain you are the more important each individual element becomes for most of us. Singling out any particular element is ultimately inconsistent with end result. Imo.
Prehearing
As with audio equipment. I have spent a lot of time getting my equipment that works for me. In those times sitting and auditioning various things I came across alot of people being taken in by voodoo magic. Things like raise your speaker cable off the floor and it makes a "massive" difference. As well as this gizmo is 10 times as expensive and your old gizmo so it must be alot better. I call it the placebo effect. Chasing the next "best thing" never ends with you coming in first. Just as in saxophone there is the voodoo magic as well. Spend $500 on a ligature and your sound will be amazingly better. Must get that silver plating because that is going to make the difference. Where what you say is right on... the sound really comes from you.
Truly spoken1
What horn is that?
It's a Borgani, Joe Lovano model
Theo Wanne works for me also.
Second mpc both examples were better than first mpc. I think maybe you just played it with differences that perhaps were due the mpc but still this highlights even further that brand and model are so subjective as to be irrelevant. Impossible even
very very very good!
Thanks Andreas!
Words of wisdom
"I Remember You"
90% of mouthpiece problems are just too small or too big of a tip opening. The mouthpiece brand and model itself can be relatively trash, but on tenor I can play about every single 7/7* piece and on alto anywhere from 6-7* plays punchy and clean. We all need something different, but I also think most old-heads push the beginners to start off on 5-6 on tenor, and most of the best tones I've heard in person were players who like me ended up finding the most comfort on a 7/7*. Don't be afraid to try something bigger. I end up feeling less pressure but have much better dynamic control especially at the low end and I stay much more consistently in-tone as well as in-tone, as in my tone didn't sound different as I go up and down the registers. I sound like me. Take it from the guy who has 8 alto pieces that I hate all cause they're just fancy brands that are all size 5 and under and make me feel like Im trying to blow a golfball through a hose.
Great video. Unfortunately so many people don’t want to hear the truth. Your embouchure is VASTLY more important than the mouthpiece. It’s what YOU can do with your damn mouth. That new mouthpiece from uber goober company isn’t going to do anything for U, if you don’t know what you sound like.
It works just like time, the only way we experience time is from reference points. If you don’t have any reference points, then your f**** lost My boi!
There’s so much information going down with our embouchure, it can’t really be 100% taught. It’s felt, only you can feel it.
I can already see my words going in one ear and out the other, so I digress. Persistence and patience Padawans
Desmond used a Gregory
Otto link, Meyer , vandoren and berg Larsen . These are enough for anybody.
Neglecting the idea that the mouthpiece facilitates the ease of expression. Comfort is a huge part of the equation. Also worth noting that the second mouthpiece you played is objectively darker, and will remain so regardless of the amount of time that passes. This idea that the mouthpiece doesnt matter is silly. Guarantee, even Dexter didnt pull a random mouthpiece off of the shelf and go about his business for years. Its definitely worth the time and investment to find the most comfortable set up to allow you to more freely express yourself.
Did you watch the whole video? I do mention its about finding a mouthpiece that works for you, but the whole point is just that the constant quest for the perfect mouthpiece, and regularly changing your gear, is not the best path
@@joshwakeham Of course I watched the whole video, thus my comment, which is a vital piece to the discussion.
@bna8259 I only asked because I thought I made it clear nearer the end of the video that you need to find a mouthpiece that works for you, and that comfort and ease was part of that. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. You're right though, they are both important things to consider
@@joshwakeham Thank you for making this video! Hopefully some will understand the message. The player is more important. Those that know, know. And those that would not listen to reason, will remain ignorant. Yes, Dexter could pick up a random mouthpiece and still sound like THAT. Those cats were cut from a different cloth. Today everything is instant gratification at the push of a button, or the purchase of another new mouthpiece. But who else is going to keep the Mouthpiece companies open? See, they’re useful idiots. It all balances out in the end.
but it did， mouthpiece2 is significant better
Don't spend more than $50 for a mouthpiece. That's all you will make from the gig. Manage your costs and be realistic. Never ever pay $300 for a "fancy" mouthpiece.
I've spent $750 on a mouthpiece, and it was the best decision I ever made.
If it’s the right mouthpiece for your sound, the gigs will start to roll in which will in turn pay for the mouthpiece 🎷
@@KirklandWilliamsWorkout3000not how things work!
@@alexkelshIt absolutely is. The more comfortable you are on your setup the more expressive and controlled you are.
Okay brokie.
It’s about comfort for me. If playing is even the least bit uncomfortable I get pissed off and frustrated. Sound is secondary but can be worked on if the set up is easy to work with. I use an Otto Link Tone Edge #7 with VanDoren green Javas almost exclusively Ocasionally I’ll switch to a Rico Graftonite mpc but I never waver with the reeds.
Sound is always First. Everything else is secondary.