It's not uncommon in some industries to carefully control and manage storage of combustibles (nuclear and chemical plants for example). Sounds like the road and bridge guys need to tighten up this failure mode.
I am not a lawyer, but my feeling is you will have a fairly big ordeal in court setting a precedent with such an action... given storage is a key use of territories under overpasses, this will be fought tooth and nail, especially so if it is visible and proven that there are other groups of equal risk that are allowed to continue operation (such as tanker trucks crossing under the Highway)... indeed the arguments on both sides are so clearly sensible and yet so utterly outside the spirit of the law, I am sure, if attempted, this will be a place many members of the legal profession will profess to make a name for themselves, and fail. yes, this will be ugly if anyone tries it.
I live in the Cincinnati area. This is the 2nd bridge fire in 4 years that have closed down a major interstate. The Brent Spence bridge was closed in November of 2020 due to a truck accident. I would love for you to do a story on that bridge Casey!
Not long before the Brent Spence incident, I remember a caller on a Cincy talk radio station saying "we need to light a fire" under some politicians to get the bridge replaced. Since the incident, I wondered if I should have interpreted that statement more literally.
Passenger cars tires use about 5 gallons of petroleum that is converted to make the synthetic rubber in the tire. Shredded tire mulch is used on playgrounds because it provides a softer surface and doesn't rot like wood mulch. When set on fire, tires burn very hot. Most plastics are petroleum based. So having a large playground plastic/wood structure under a bridge is almost the same as a tanker parking a tanker under them.
We had a bridge that was protected from fire by large three quarter inch thick sheets of Asbestos, and the stuff worked and protected the bridge when a truck carrying plastic caught fire under it. During a refit they removed the Asbestos protection and replaced it with 2mm Zinc sheeting. Someone dumped a lot of tires under the bridge and then it got set fire to, the zinc plating fell off during the fire and one side of the bridge was closed for 4 months. Turns out Asbestos has its uses...who knew?
Im not old enough but apparently the fire resistant abilities of asbestos is well known. Supposedly its the best thing available but it's so carcinogenic and dangerous to breathe. Many older buildings still have asbestos
@@davidseslar5798 Well who wants to work in all that protective gear? Oh and the production cost for fresh gear every day. Oh and the disposal. Oh dear. Oh dear. Just not profitable. Oh the pain. The pain. "DR Smith that does not compute." Seems like works till it is not needed is not in style any more. Then use it to make some more. Sometimes not a good idea. I as I remember. Asbestos was double plastic bagged and sent to the designated land fill. Been there. Done that. Might be good place for a used EV battery plant ?
I think part of the reason these bridge fires are so destructive is that the bridge structure reflects heat back into the fire below. This is a phenomenon that occurs with fires in tunnels and inside ships. The heat can’t escape, so the temperature rises very rapidly and reaches extremely high levels.
Where are those banned? Here in GA even new playgrounds have both. We also install shade structures over the equipment which probably helps with not being seared by the steel slides.
@@wendybarbe9221 My playground "career" was from the mid-60's to early '70's.. We didn't have anything concrete, just steel. As I remember it, the large monkeybar "dome" caused most of the stitches/fractures. That, or falling backwards off the steps to the slide.
@@captiannemo1587 lol Oh yeah. If your skin squeeked on the way down, you were toast! I do remember heisting wax paper from the pantry at.home. At recess, we'd wad it up and rub the slide with it to make it faster. Did it really work? I dunno. But we sure thought it did.
I live in Cincinnati and I agree something could have been done proactively to prevent this. My memory is that there was a rubber Matt on the playground. Seems to me some basic engineering inspections and requirements could have prevented this. Cincinnati has a lot of building codes , ask anyone who added a room or a deck. That’s why it’s so shocking no one caught this, particularly since there have been similar bridge fires across USA.
Thank you. Yes I did an update video that shows a lot more about the construction of that playground if you want to check it out. th-cam.com/video/l_aPM_fp3vA/w-d-xo.html
@@erikwigelandiestad2270 yes, going back at least 20 years. I was part of building a community playground near my parent's house, about 10 years after we built it some teenagers started two of the slides on fire. Another two playgrounds of similar design near me have had arson attacks since. So that's 3 arson attacks in 20 years within a 15 mile radius (that I'm aware of), pretty crappy state of affairs if you ask me.
I have a copy of "How to Lie with Statistics" written back when cows were milked by hand and is still valid today. I just ordered the new book you recommended. A Field Guide to Lies: Critical Thinking with Statistics and the Scientific Method Paperback - November 19, 2019
As usual, a very good evaluation, Casey. As someone who has worked with children all of my adult life, I am also saddened to think of a children's playground being located under a heavily trafficked highway bridge. Does anyone stop to think about the exposure the children experience to all of the pollutants being emitted by vehicles paying directly over their heads. Not to mention the noise level those children are exposed to. And, as you pointed out, the use of recycled tires and other plastics has health implications of unknown consequences. I can only hope that the playground will not be rebuilt in that location.
Thank you. I strongly suspect that that area will be kept wide open after the repairs are made. It is a miracle that nobody was hurt in this intense fire.
Thank you for this clear & concise analysis. I travel this bridge every day on my commute. The loss of the southbound lane of the Big Mac has created a traffic headache. My 10 minute commute south to Kentucky is now over an hour. After closer inspection ODOT determined that the damage is worse than they initially thought and the replacement beams need to be custom made. Hoping this a wake up call to provide better protection for our bridges and other infrastructure, not feeling optimistic :( Btw - that playset had been under the bridge for over 20 years. I always thought it was dumb - the "steam boat" was almost up to the deck of the bridge.🤯
Thank you and for your comments and additional information. I hope they get this rebuilt and re-opened soon, but I think that will be at least 2 months out.
just 4 years ago this month the neighboring bridge, The Brent Spence (the I-71 and I-75 combined bridge), was burned by a fuel tanker crash and it took about 6 or 7 weeks to be repaired and reopened to traffic.
Darn shame it survived. That, and the Fort Pitt and Duquesne bridges have to be some of the worst designed bridges in the Midwest. This bridge isn’t far behind. Liberty bridge in Pittsburgh was set alight by the lowest bidding contractors, and the fire department actually got flak for their quick response, highway department figured that five more minutes of fire, and the contractor would have paid for a new bridge.
@@jaysmith1408 "worst designed bridges" Any cites you care to share? I'm not finding any. "shame it survived" So . . . No bridge is preferable to a functional bridge? How do you propose to handle the current traffic? Passenger ferries and horse-drawn trolleys? 🤨
When are they finally going to replace that I71/75 bridge? I used to drive truck, and I hated crossing it. There's been talk of it's replacement and it keeps getting pushed off.
@@w.knudsen5570 there's a multi-billion new bridge in the works right now to be built exactly parallel to the old bridge, with I-71 to go on the new bridge and for I-75 to stay on the reconfigured old bridge. Given the speed of KDOT and ODOT, I expect we won't see it for 15 years.
In my community they were doing work under a bridge. I thought it was for a trail extension, but when I asked one of the workers he said that homeless had stuffed 8 tons of flammable garbage between the bridge girders and they were making it inaccessible after cleaning it out.
Just to give more details, they were stealing the garbage from the dumpster of a nearby liquor store to find returnables and coupons/gift certificates that hadn't been destroyed before being thrown away. It wasn't a deliberate effort to set the bridge up for destruction.
Casey - I'm finding your posts to be great, I'm a Structural myself. You are doing good translating Geek to English. Watching your first I thought "Who is this Guy". Well you are a YT channel I watch every episode of. Keep it up.
Thank you for this great video!! The intensity and flame/smoke coloration of this fire really caught my attention. When you said it was a 'child's playground' my first though was it must be one of those new 'composite materials' construction models. Then you mentioned 'rubber mulch'. So I went down the google hole... Sure enough!! I found several pictures that show pretty good detail of the structure and it is mostly the new 'environmentally friendly composite materials' (aka...PLASTIC!!) that are popping up all over the place. There is some real wood, but not very much. The ground covering is that rubberized gel-like padding material, not mulch. It's like little rubber balls that are spread in a seal-coating gel that thickens up from curing. This playground appears to be > 85% engineered materials - almost all of which appears to be plastic. Which, as you know, means it's made of petroleum. Which, as you know, tends to burn. And, MAN!! That fire looked to be INTENSE!! Looking at the pictures, it doesn't seem appropriate based on the amount of fuel if it had all been regular wood. My question now is how hot do these composite plastics burn?? Are they hotter than natural wood? Pressure treated wood? So much for environmentally friendly!! I'm just glad no one was injured or killed in this conflagration! Again, great video and thank you!
There is a new road paving material that was just laid over a few streets in my neighborhood to get a few more years out of the existing surface. It is like a heavy duty version of a running track. Toxic, dusty, and flammable. It might perform as a road-life extended just as the manufacturer claims, but so did lead and asbestos and round-up.
my thoughts were "what types of toxic stew were used in the construction of the playground " upon finding out what was burning with more ferocity than a petrol tanker.
Just seems a little sus that this is what, the 3rd bridge in the country that's been taken out. Magical hurricanes that do not decrease over land in NC, FL, I've lost count of the food processing plants, cattle ranches being burnt down. Ohio train, Georgia factory fire. The BORDER, noncitizens voting. Gates owning more farmland in the US to grow bugs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What is under all those areas?
Cincy resident here. Cincy burns bridges in the middle of the night. Sarcasm. Brent Spence Bridge had 2 trucks carrying chemicals collide about 4 years ago in the middle of the night. The ensuing flames were extremely hot and melted some girders and other things. Now this one.
And the passenger vehicle that cut off, and proceeded to wreck, the fuel tanker in the middle of the night. I hated, still hate, and will continue to hate, that daggummed bridge. Worst part of delivering to Kentucky, was having to take that bridge.
@@jaysmith1408 It is a terribly outdated bridge. The city engineer was even foolish enough to turn the emergency lanes on the bridge into live traffic lanes. This was a huge mistake.
In 2017, a fire under Interstate 85 in Atlanta, Georgia caused a bridge to collapse due to the storage of construction materials underneath including 76 reels of high-density polyethylene (HDPE) conduit and nine racks of fiberglass conduit.
@LindaG858 It's part of a complex of parks along the shore of the Ohio River. Rather than having the overpass be wasted space, they put a playground underneath it.
Remember the fire that shut down I85 for a few months in Atlanta. Plastic pipes that were being stored under the freeway were set on fire supposedly by accident.
'Burning a playground down' is not a common pastime around here. Relying on memory and a cursory web search, this is the first one I know of in this area, in the 4+ decades I've lived here. It's possible I've missed one, a 5 second search isn't going to turn up everything, but that's something that does tend to stick out. There are multiple alternatives to get into that area, but none of them will be adequate to compensate for the loss of this bridge. Thankfully it's only one direction.
That rubber mulch is also sold for riding rings and fire risk was never mentioned in its sales promotion, at least not during the time period when I was considering it for my riding ring between 2000-2005
When I was a kid the playgrounds were stainless or plated steel. There are companies that make shoring which could be used as the temporary support for the spans. An old engineers' point of view is that modern people seem to have very limited tunnel vision for only what they want. Good Luck, Rick
There is a very large model steamboat structure that makes up the majority of the playground. It appears to be built primarily of wood but also appears to be surrounded by rubber mulch.
Early evaluations expect the bridge to be back up in a matter of weeks and not months. Its supposed to take as long or less than how long the 75 bridge repair took a few years ago (6 weeks). This is the 2nd most important bridge in Cincinnati, that also serves as a back up for accidents on the other bridge. Needless to say, repairs are going to be expedited.
It would appear that a comprehensive review of infrastructure vulnerabilities to natural disasters, accidents, and adversarial threats would be wise and could help reduce long term costs not to mention tragedy. A stitch in time saves nine.
On Norfolk Southern, we had an oil train derail and catch fire over the Beaver River, going east towards Conway Yard. It burned for quite a while. We were thinking that they would have to replace the bridge, but the damage was less than than they thought it would be. The girders that the Pennsylvania Railroad used are massive and survived. I don't remember them replacing any of the steel, but I think that they had to do some reconstructive work on the concrete sections, like the abutments. Either way, it sure changed our route to and from Conway, for quite a while.
Part of that is that the PRR was run by engineers. But if I had to guess, part of it is that the structure is over-designed because we didn’t understand engineering as well back then.
On goal! Who knew that a children’s playground has enough flammable material to damage the bridge PS - reminds me of the fires that damaged our local DTLA freeways. CalTrans was dumb enough to allow storage of flammable material under the freeway. The money they made from the lease is a fraction of what it took to fix structure not to mention inconvenience to commuters!
After high school in 1972, It took about 5 months to fabricate the steel plate girders for the I270/SR 16 interchange east of Columbus. 6 weeks would be about right if a fabrication shop can drop everything.
Worth noting the Norwalk, CT bride is still being reconstructed. But, they were able to remove the existing one really quickly and reopen the highway. The new bridge is still under construction but will open here next year. In this case it was just a street bridge over 95 and there are many additional options with the closure in place.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Makes you think about what we let our kids around. Wouldn't be surprised to see Lockheed sponsoring Depleted Uranium building materials.
IMHO, if a bridge owner is willing to allow such storage or structures under a bridge, their insurers should insist that a high volume dry sprinkler system he installed on the underside of the bridge.
Just a couple of years ago, there was another major bridge fire in Cincinnati on the Brent Spence. That's the I-75 bridge. It's a double decker. Southbound has the top side, and northbound gets the lower. A large multi vehicle pile-up caused a fire on the northbound, and that closed the bridge for a year. They found a partial pallet of house paint on the trailer of one of the semis involved and this created a huge public uproar. Kentucky dug up a 100 year old law on the books that prohibited hazmat through the city of Covington, and they banned all hazmat through the Kentucky side, despite the load in the accident being legally exempt from hazmat restrictions. I can understand not wanting fuel tankers there, but nobody seems to realize that a lot of things in the supermarket are considered hazmat. Even whipped cream in a can is hazmat and must have placards. Electric vehicle fires have proven that with enough heat, literally anything can be considered a combustible material. Are they going to ban electric vehicles from the bridge as well? Who knows what kind of craziness is going to come from this. Traffic is already enough of a mess down there on a good day.
It's my understanding that in Los Angeles the combustible materials underneath the freeway weren't actually allowed to be there. It's still bad that the areas weren't checked, and it seems like it should be part of the lease that inspections take place regularly, but they were already banned from keeping the stuff there.
Playground on a right-of-way sounds like a really bad idea. Proximity hazmats too high to even consider siting a playground there. I wonder if a P.E. even signed off on the playground site and design?
The other thing to consider is the height of the bridge - I really doubt the wood ,mulch and tires could generate flames that could even reach the girders even with an accelerant. The Brent Spence ( middle CINCY crossing ) was already nearly taken out from a tanker exploding, which would leave only the far western bridge crossing . The Big Mac bridge has old short Jersey barriers - several cars have been pushed off the bridge ..
I remember when a gasoline tanker caught fire under the I-580/I-80 interchange in the 1990's in San Francisco East Bay. CC Myers, the emergency contractor hired for the project, found steel girders in another state and had them shipped to the jobsite. There was a bonus for finishing the work early. I think he got it done in one month and received a boat load of money to get it open again. On another note, I was a Resident Engineer on a playground project which included a rubber pour-in matting around the play structures. It is a petroleum product and you add colors to it to make different patterns. I'm sure it does not take much for the matting to catch fire. That may have happened in your video as well.
I think that high school students should be encouraged to take a Logic 101 course or statistics course instead of calculus. Half absorbing a logic course (how to argue and parse facts and statements to prove truth, fallacies, etc.) would be way more useful than half absorbing some calculus. Same goes for statistics and it assumptions, limitation, and methods for manipulation and distortion.
They did not "replace" the bridge over I-95 in Norwalk. They tore it out to be replaced later. The I-95 in Phila re-opening involved the removal of the span and placing of a specialized fill and then repaving of a narrower section.
You covered this exactly what the problem is. It will not happen here or we have to many other things happening to have this checked out. Can't hurt to have the fire department do a report on conditions they see needing addressed. Something they will be trying to put out in the future.
I think leveraging the space under interstate bridges with high clearance for parks, picnic areas and tennis and basketball courts is smart land use techniques. Storage of flammable material should be avoided, but I see value in parking lots under overpasses as smart. It is not like you can grow grass under them. If the terrorists want to burn a bridge, they can find a way.
Yikes. I was unaware that we've seen an epidemic of playground arsons in the US. I thought most of those plastics had fire retardants in the resin. The shredded tires used as mulch was a good scam for those looking to dispose of old tires.
For information, the playground was built after the bridge. It was open field under there for a long period of time there’s a restaurant to east of it, but I know that there’s that there was a power box back in there. I’m retired fireman I don’t know it’s not in my territory. It’s just there because I worked a special event
I live just south of the river in Kentucky. It was a crazy fire. They have the northbound side opened up. The southbound is going to be a while. There’s several structural beams warped and need to be replaced
Some bridges have utility service lines under them. So a simple fire safety modification for bridges at risk may be fire department activated sprinkler system barring that water service is near or hung from the bridge. Or a fire pumper connection on bridges with no near water supply. Also Storage of any flammable material under any bridge should never be allowed.
I have heard that as much as 10 feet depth of the "rubber(?)" mulch is required for safety. If true, it is like planting an oil tanker under the bridge and burning it all.
10 INCHES, NOT FEET. 6 inches of rubber mulch typically provides protection for falls from 16 feet, and most commercial playgrounds typically have 4 to 6 inches. 4 to 6 inches over a playground is still a lot of petroleum.
@@GoCoyote Thank you. Just something I heard casually a few weeks ago. I wondered a little about it but was not important enough to follow-up . . . until . . . . the bridge is roasted from below.
Dang it ! We gotta close those flammable playgrounds cuz they burn bridges that are made of steel and concrete ! (And no more playgrounds under bridges ! Where the bums gonna live?)
Another bridge was put back into temporary service, after it was destroyed, by boxing in the void and filling that area with some type of glass material. Then a surface was installed, this was done very quickly, compared to making the new materials and having to wait. The I-95 bridge in Philadelphia was repaired with recycled glass after a tanker truck crash destroyed it in June 2023:
There is no breeze in Cincinnati during the summer months. It's hot, humid, & stagnant air at times. 🥵 On the other hand, the wind will sure blow up your skirt during the winter months. 🥶
About 20 years ago about 2 miles north on the south lane where you exit I71 south to I471 south a fuel truck crashed. It had a fire so hot that it burnt up a bridge going over I471 south. And they had to replace the roadway that id I471 south.
What kind of plastic was the playground made from? Titanium and magnesium scrap infused? Something just doesn't add up in its planning. I never really thought I would want a play area under a major bridge anyway. ..then again, look at the people running the show.
You don’t need to make the bridge safer. You need to hire building officials that know what they are doing. If you don’t know what you are doing you shouldn’t be in a position of someone that approves building permits. Creating safety in the built environment is an actual profession. Doesn’t the Mayor of Cincy know who to hire to keep his city safe from OBVIOUS SAFETY THREATS TO HIS INFRASTRUCTURE?? Jeezus!
How much do you think the Mayor of a major city had to do with the materials included in the playground for a public park? Also consider the current mayor took over in January 2022. Well after the park was constructed.
There are ways to protect the structural steel with coatings or cementitious cladding such that a liquid fuel tanker fire could burn for up to 4 hours before structural integrity starts to degrade. 60 minutes of protection during a 2,000 F fire would cost $40-50/sq.ft., plus traffic control costs.
Being near this story, the local news reports on it pretty regularly. The news coverage was shocking when it happened for the fire's intensity. I agree that an accelerant could have been used to start it, but not knowing what materials the playground equipment was made of poses the question, "What if kids were playing and that same thing happened?" I've seen back yard playsets made from blow molded polypropylene or polyethylene and given the temperatures those materials likely reached they would also add to the ferocity of the fire. There should be nothing under major arteries like this that burns.
Thanks for the book recommendation! I'm aware of how easily and incredibly stats can be 'cooked', but with the recent mass scandal in Academic Journals and major universities it seems more needed than ever to learn how to see it.
They need fireproofing and maybe consider having fire sprinklers in some areas like above a playground. Some city’s have miles of above ground highway with green space under it.
People often lash out at the many approvals needed before building anything. This case illustrates that there are good reasons for the approval process and isn't just to annoy the planners/builders/citizens.
It's been a while since I've been to that park, but locally using tiles, sheets, and mulch made from ground tires is a thing. I can see that causing quite a mess, if ignited (think _Springfield tire fire,_ IYKYK) but it's also not going to spontaneously combust. I have five tons around the pool, and even tried to burn some. It was likely arson, unless some large electrical equipment failure was involved. Not likely, given the 3 AM time of the fire.
I second the motion to ban storage of combustable materials even if fashioned into childrens play equipment, under/ near critical infrastructure.
It's not uncommon in some industries to carefully control and manage storage of combustibles (nuclear and chemical plants for example). Sounds like the road and bridge guys need to tighten up this failure mode.
Agreed on both of the above.
@@georgemckenzie2525 or in this case a small building with antique kiddie rides like a merry-go-round in it for kids to ride
You're going to have to solve the housing issue then
I am not a lawyer, but my feeling is you will have a fairly big ordeal in court setting a precedent with such an action...
given storage is a key use of territories under overpasses, this will be fought tooth and nail, especially so if it is visible and proven that there are other groups of equal risk that are allowed to continue operation (such as tanker trucks crossing under the Highway)...
indeed the arguments on both sides are so clearly sensible and yet so utterly outside the spirit of the law, I am sure, if attempted, this will be a place many members of the legal profession will profess to make a name for themselves, and fail.
yes, this will be ugly if anyone tries it.
I live in Cincinnati and watched the various news channels as this happened. Your explanation is by far the clearest and most direct Thank you.
Thanks! I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Will be going south down the I-75 monday is that traffic bad now ,if so what is a good time to go over it.
I live in the Cincinnati area. This is the 2nd bridge fire in 4 years that have closed down a major interstate. The Brent Spence bridge was closed in November of 2020 due to a truck accident. I would love for you to do a story on that bridge Casey!
I'd forgotten about that fire on the Brent Spence until this one, only remembered when they mentioned it on the news.
Not long before the Brent Spence incident, I remember a caller on a Cincy talk radio station saying "we need to light a fire" under some politicians to get the bridge replaced. Since the incident, I wondered if I should have interpreted that statement more literally.
Mackinac Bridge? Well the Big Mack is easier to say than Mackinac Bridge.
I do not understand this either.
th-cam.com/video/qipB5Jt2Kq8/w-d-xo.html
Passenger cars tires use about 5 gallons of petroleum that is converted to make the synthetic rubber in the tire. Shredded tire mulch is used on playgrounds because it provides a softer surface and doesn't rot like wood mulch. When set on fire, tires burn very hot. Most plastics are petroleum based. So having a large playground plastic/wood structure under a bridge is almost the same as a tanker parking a tanker under them.
We had a bridge that was protected from fire by large three quarter inch thick sheets of Asbestos, and the stuff worked and protected the bridge when a truck carrying plastic caught fire under it. During a refit they removed the Asbestos protection and replaced it with 2mm Zinc sheeting. Someone dumped a lot of tires under the bridge and then it got set fire to, the zinc plating fell off during the fire and one side of the bridge was closed for 4 months. Turns out Asbestos has its uses...who knew?
"Asbestos has its uses" Such as providing employment for pulmonary pathologists, thoracic (chest) radiologists, thoracic surgeons and lawyers?
Im not old enough but apparently the fire resistant abilities of asbestos is well known. Supposedly its the best thing available but it's so carcinogenic and dangerous to breathe. Many older buildings still have asbestos
@@davidseslar5798 Well who wants to work in all that protective gear?
Oh and the production cost for fresh gear every day. Oh and the disposal.
Oh dear. Oh dear. Just not profitable. Oh the pain. The pain.
"DR Smith that does not compute."
Seems like works till it is not needed is not in style any more. Then use it to make some more.
Sometimes not a good idea.
I as I remember. Asbestos was double plastic bagged and sent to the designated land fill. Been there. Done that.
Might be good place for a used EV battery plant ?
I think part of the reason these bridge fires are so destructive is that the bridge structure reflects heat back into the fire below. This is a phenomenon that occurs with fires in tunnels and inside ships. The heat can’t escape, so the temperature rises very rapidly and reaches extremely high levels.
Well, great! First they ban Steel Slides, and the Monkey Bars. Now they'll ban the Barrels-O-Napalm. What's a kid gonna do?
Where are those banned? Here in GA even new playgrounds have both. We also install shade structures over the equipment which probably helps with not being seared by the steel slides.
@@KSparks80 oh dont forget the concrete tubes on the playground. Don't know how many kids ended up with stitches on those things.
Being seared by the steel slides is a right of passage
@@wendybarbe9221 My playground "career" was from the mid-60's to early '70's.. We didn't have anything concrete, just steel. As I remember it, the large monkeybar "dome" caused most of the stitches/fractures. That, or falling backwards off the steps to the slide.
@@captiannemo1587 lol Oh yeah. If your skin squeeked on the way down, you were toast! I do remember heisting wax paper from the pantry at.home. At recess, we'd wad it up and rub the slide with it to make it faster. Did it really work? I dunno. But we sure thought it did.
I live in Cincinnati and I agree something could have been done proactively to prevent this. My memory is that there was a rubber Matt on the playground. Seems to me some basic engineering inspections and requirements could have prevented this. Cincinnati has a lot of building codes , ask anyone who added a room or a deck. That’s why it’s so shocking no one caught this, particularly since there have been similar bridge fires across USA.
Thank you. Yes I did an update video that shows a lot more about the construction of that playground if you want to check it out.
th-cam.com/video/l_aPM_fp3vA/w-d-xo.html
A children's playground? I thought you were going to say it was a fuel tanker!
Yea I am scratching my head, what do arsonists have against children's playgrounds? That's just plain weird.
Is this a trend? The playground arsonists? Jesus
@@erikwigelandiestad2270 yes, going back at least 20 years. I was part of building a community playground near my parent's house, about 10 years after we built it some teenagers started two of the slides on fire. Another two playgrounds of similar design near me have had arson attacks since. So that's 3 arson attacks in 20 years within a 15 mile radius (that I'm aware of), pretty crappy state of affairs if you ask me.
I thought it was an oil or gas pipeline under the bridge.
@@nbrown5907 It may have been kids smoking Luckies.
Highly-combustible materials should be forbidden underneath bridges. That should be a no-brainer.
@Bobrogers99 They will be from now on.
@@MoellerEngineeringCo. That's what they said the last 3 times.
Sadly under a bridge makes for a great storage space.
I have a copy of "How to Lie with Statistics" written back when cows were milked by hand and is still valid today. I just ordered the new book you recommended.
A Field Guide to Lies: Critical Thinking with Statistics and the Scientific Method Paperback - November 19, 2019
As usual, a very good evaluation, Casey. As someone who has worked with children all of my adult life, I am also saddened to think of a children's playground being located under a heavily trafficked highway bridge. Does anyone stop to think about the exposure the children experience to all of the pollutants being emitted by vehicles paying directly over their heads. Not to mention the noise level those children are exposed to. And, as you pointed out, the use of recycled tires and other plastics has health implications of unknown consequences. I can only hope that the playground will not be rebuilt in that location.
Thank you. I strongly suspect that that area will be kept wide open after the repairs are made. It is a miracle that nobody was hurt in this intense fire.
Thank you for this clear & concise analysis. I travel this bridge every day on my commute. The loss of the southbound lane of the Big Mac has created a traffic headache. My 10 minute commute south to Kentucky is now over an hour. After closer inspection ODOT determined that the damage is worse than they initially thought and the replacement beams need to be custom made. Hoping this a wake up call to provide better protection for our bridges and other infrastructure, not feeling optimistic :(
Btw - that playset had been under the bridge for over 20 years. I always thought it was dumb - the "steam boat" was almost up to the deck of the bridge.🤯
Thank you and for your comments and additional information. I hope they get this rebuilt and re-opened soon, but I think that will be at least 2 months out.
Home, sweet home, Casey. I actually did the paint inspections on the box beams on the Ohio side before they were erected.
just 4 years ago this month the neighboring bridge, The Brent Spence (the I-71 and I-75 combined bridge), was burned by a fuel tanker crash and it took about 6 or 7 weeks to be repaired and reopened to traffic.
Interesting, thank you for that information.
Darn shame it survived. That, and the Fort Pitt and Duquesne bridges have to be some of the worst designed bridges in the Midwest. This bridge isn’t far behind. Liberty bridge in Pittsburgh was set alight by the lowest bidding contractors, and the fire department actually got flak for their quick response, highway department figured that five more minutes of fire, and the contractor would have paid for a new bridge.
@@jaysmith1408 "worst designed bridges" Any cites you care to share? I'm not finding any. "shame it survived" So . . . No bridge is preferable to a functional bridge? How do you propose to handle the current traffic? Passenger ferries and horse-drawn trolleys? 🤨
When are they finally going to replace that I71/75 bridge? I used to drive truck, and I hated crossing it. There's been talk of it's replacement and it keeps getting pushed off.
@@w.knudsen5570 there's a multi-billion new bridge in the works right now to be built exactly parallel to the old bridge, with I-71 to go on the new bridge and for I-75 to stay on the reconfigured old bridge. Given the speed of KDOT and ODOT, I expect we won't see it for 15 years.
In my community they were doing work under a bridge. I thought it was for a trail extension, but when I asked one of the workers he said that homeless had stuffed 8 tons of flammable garbage between the bridge girders and they were making it inaccessible after cleaning it out.
Just to give more details, they were stealing the garbage from the dumpster of a nearby liquor store to find returnables and coupons/gift certificates that hadn't been destroyed before being thrown away. It wasn't a deliberate effort to set the bridge up for destruction.
Casey - I'm finding your posts to be great, I'm a Structural myself. You are doing good translating Geek to English. Watching your first I thought "Who is this Guy". Well you are a YT channel I watch every episode of. Keep it up.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I appreciate it.
Thank you for this great video!!
The intensity and flame/smoke coloration of this fire really caught my attention. When you said it was a 'child's playground' my first though was it must be one of those new 'composite materials' construction models. Then you mentioned 'rubber mulch'. So I went down the google hole...
Sure enough!! I found several pictures that show pretty good detail of the structure and it is mostly the new 'environmentally friendly composite materials' (aka...PLASTIC!!) that are popping up all over the place. There is some real wood, but not very much.
The ground covering is that rubberized gel-like padding material, not mulch. It's like little rubber balls that are spread in a seal-coating gel that thickens up from curing.
This playground appears to be > 85% engineered materials - almost all of which appears to be plastic. Which, as you know, means it's made of petroleum. Which, as you know, tends to burn. And, MAN!! That fire looked to be INTENSE!! Looking at the pictures, it doesn't seem appropriate based on the amount of fuel if it had all been regular wood.
My question now is how hot do these composite plastics burn?? Are they hotter than natural wood? Pressure treated wood?
So much for environmentally friendly!!
I'm just glad no one was injured or killed in this conflagration!
Again, great video and thank you!
"A high intensity fire of a children's playground", those words should never have to be uttered, who designed that clusterfuck.
Maybe it was intentional…
@@SamWilkinsonn maybe
This gives me some good context for the importance of fire safery inspections.
I would have thought that a public playground would have an extensive security camera system, especially in a somewhat secluded place?
There is a new road paving material that was just laid over a few streets in my neighborhood to get a few more years out of the existing surface. It is like a heavy duty version of a running track. Toxic, dusty, and flammable. It might perform as a road-life extended just as the manufacturer claims, but so did lead and asbestos and round-up.
my thoughts were "what types of toxic stew were used in the construction of the playground " upon finding out what was burning with more ferocity than a petrol tanker.
Just seems a little sus that this is what, the 3rd bridge in the country that's been taken out. Magical hurricanes that do not decrease over land in NC, FL, I've lost count of the food processing plants, cattle ranches being burnt down. Ohio train, Georgia factory fire. The BORDER, noncitizens voting. Gates owning more farmland in the US to grow bugs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. What is under all those areas?
Cincy resident here. Cincy burns bridges in the middle of the night. Sarcasm. Brent Spence Bridge had 2 trucks carrying chemicals collide about 4 years ago in the middle of the night. The ensuing flames were extremely hot and melted some girders and other things. Now this one.
And the passenger vehicle that cut off, and proceeded to wreck, the fuel tanker in the middle of the night.
I hated, still hate, and will continue to hate, that daggummed bridge. Worst part of delivering to Kentucky, was having to take that bridge.
@@jaysmith1408 It is a terribly outdated bridge. The city engineer was even foolish enough to turn the emergency lanes on the bridge into live traffic lanes. This was a huge mistake.
In 2017, a fire under Interstate 85 in Atlanta, Georgia caused a bridge to collapse due to the storage of construction materials underneath including 76 reels of high-density polyethylene (HDPE) conduit and nine racks of fiberglass conduit.
That is crazy! Such a shame. Curious as to why they would put a playground under an overpass…
Construction company a political pal?
Political friend?
@LindaG858 It's part of a complex of parks along the shore of the Ohio River. Rather than having the overpass be wasted space, they put a playground underneath it.
@@WompWompWoooompIt's wasted space now !
The frequency of fires and damage caused do not seem to be random.
Remember the fire that shut down I85 for a few months in Atlanta. Plastic pipes that were being stored under the freeway were set on fire supposedly by accident.
'Burning a playground down' is not a common pastime around here.
Relying on memory and a cursory web search, this is the first one I know of in this area, in the 4+ decades I've lived here.
It's possible I've missed one, a 5 second search isn't going to turn up everything, but that's something that does tend to stick out.
There are multiple alternatives to get into that area, but none of them will be adequate to compensate for the loss of this bridge. Thankfully it's only one direction.
I'm amazed how you can just look at videos and pictures and make these pinpoint deductions but it just shows your experience and knowledge
That rubber mulch is also sold for riding rings and fire risk was never mentioned in its sales promotion, at least not during the time period when I was considering it for my riding ring between 2000-2005
When I was a kid the playgrounds were stainless or plated steel. There are companies that make shoring which could be used as the temporary support for the spans. An old engineers' point of view is that modern people seem to have very limited tunnel vision for only what they want. Good Luck, Rick
I was just thinking the same thing!
@@CaseyJones-Engineer I edited my post. Re check to see if you still agree. Good Luck, Rick
There is a very large model steamboat structure that makes up the majority of the playground. It appears to be built primarily of wood but also appears to be surrounded by rubber mulch.
“Wood” used in modern playgrounds is frequently composite rot resistant material.
Was that a place the homeless hang out, in that area?
Steamboats are known to catch fire sometimes, too much realism?
Early evaluations expect the bridge to be back up in a matter of weeks and not months. Its supposed to take as long or less than how long the 75 bridge repair took a few years ago (6 weeks).
This is the 2nd most important bridge in Cincinnati, that also serves as a back up for accidents on the other bridge. Needless to say, repairs are going to be expedited.
Thanks!
Thank you, I appreciate your support!!
It would appear that a comprehensive review of infrastructure vulnerabilities to natural disasters, accidents, and adversarial threats would be wise and could help reduce long term costs not to mention tragedy. A stitch in time saves nine.
I agree. There is no room for complacency here.
First the Quarter Pounder gets recalled, now it's the Big Mac!
🤣🤣
On Norfolk Southern, we had an oil train derail and catch fire over the Beaver River, going east towards Conway Yard. It burned for quite a while. We were thinking that they would have to replace the bridge, but the damage was less than than they thought it would be. The girders that the Pennsylvania Railroad used are massive and survived. I don't remember them replacing any of the steel, but I think that they had to do some reconstructive work on the concrete sections, like the abutments. Either way, it sure changed our route to and from Conway, for quite a while.
Part of that is that the PRR was run by engineers. But if I had to guess, part of it is that the structure is over-designed because we didn’t understand engineering as well back then.
@ The Pennsy overbuilt virtually everything to the highest degree. Heavy rails, big bridges and buildings. That was just their way.
Steam locomotives were much heavier than any modern rolling stock, plus the overdesign. It might not hold up to the UP Big Boy going on tour.
Wow, another Casey video in the space of a few days. Instructive and interesting as always.
Are you sure the highway wasn't the main target? Makes more sense than a playground lol.
The Thermite Dinosaur Slide ignited… it was for the kids.😂
On goal! Who knew that a children’s playground has enough flammable material to damage the bridge
PS - reminds me of the fires that damaged our local DTLA freeways. CalTrans was dumb enough to allow storage of flammable material under the freeway. The money they made from the lease is a fraction of what it took to fix structure not to mention inconvenience to commuters!
ccrx6700 recently posted a video of clearing the brush from under his railroad's bridges to reduce fire danger.
After high school in 1972, It took about 5 months to fabricate the steel plate girders for the I270/SR 16 interchange east of Columbus. 6 weeks would be about right if a fabrication shop can drop everything.
I wonder what it is like with a lot of American steel mills no longer in business?
There are no coincidences
Worth noting the Norwalk, CT bride is still being reconstructed. But, they were able to remove the existing one really quickly and reopen the highway. The new bridge is still under construction but will open here next year. In this case it was just a street bridge over 95 and there are many additional options with the closure in place.
Thank you for those clarifications I appreciate it!
What kind of playground burns so intensely?
I'm thinking it was the mulch cushioning if it was rubber it would go up that intensely.
@@CaseyJones-Engineer Makes you think about what we let our kids around. Wouldn't be surprised to see Lockheed sponsoring Depleted Uranium building materials.
@@FeeNixBeech No one is dumping gasoline on rubber mulch with kids around.
@@major__kongno, but this happened at 3 am
@@CaseyJones-Engineer This playground had both rubber mulch and cushions. This fire will no doubt change how these spaces are used.
Huh, now I know why so many playgrounds were built out of metal and gravel. Didn’t ever think of arson.
As reported by Les Nessman, WKRP in Cincinnati.
Just wanted to let you know the 😊bridge is Norwalk Ct is still not replaced yet.
IMHO, if a bridge owner is willing to allow such storage or structures under a bridge, their insurers should insist that a high volume dry sprinkler system he installed on the underside of the bridge.
Just a couple of years ago, there was another major bridge fire in Cincinnati on the Brent Spence. That's the I-75 bridge. It's a double decker. Southbound has the top side, and northbound gets the lower. A large multi vehicle pile-up caused a fire on the northbound, and that closed the bridge for a year. They found a partial pallet of house paint on the trailer of one of the semis involved and this created a huge public uproar. Kentucky dug up a 100 year old law on the books that prohibited hazmat through the city of Covington, and they banned all hazmat through the Kentucky side, despite the load in the accident being legally exempt from hazmat restrictions.
I can understand not wanting fuel tankers there, but nobody seems to realize that a lot of things in the supermarket are considered hazmat. Even whipped cream in a can is hazmat and must have placards. Electric vehicle fires have proven that with enough heat, literally anything can be considered a combustible material. Are they going to ban electric vehicles from the bridge as well?
Who knows what kind of craziness is going to come from this. Traffic is already enough of a mess down there on a good day.
It's my understanding that in Los Angeles the combustible materials underneath the freeway weren't actually allowed to be there. It's still bad that the areas weren't checked, and it seems like it should be part of the lease that inspections take place regularly, but they were already banned from keeping the stuff there.
Playground on a right-of-way sounds like a really bad idea. Proximity hazmats too high to even consider siting a playground there. I wonder if a P.E. even signed off on the playground site and design?
Thanks for this video. I live in suburban Cincinnati.
I'm glad you found it helpful!
The other thing to consider is the height of the bridge - I really doubt the wood ,mulch and tires could generate flames that could even reach the girders even with an accelerant.
The Brent Spence ( middle CINCY crossing ) was already nearly taken out from a tanker exploding, which would leave only the far western bridge crossing .
The Big Mac bridge has old short Jersey barriers - several cars have been pushed off the bridge ..
Great review thanks.
My pleasure!
I remember when a gasoline tanker caught fire under the I-580/I-80 interchange in the 1990's in San Francisco East Bay. CC Myers, the emergency contractor hired for the project, found steel girders in another state and had them shipped to the jobsite. There was a bonus for finishing the work early. I think he got it done in one month and received a boat load of money to get it open again. On another note, I was a Resident Engineer on a playground project which included a rubber pour-in matting around the play structures. It is a petroleum product and you add colors to it to make different patterns. I'm sure it does not take much for the matting to catch fire. That may have happened in your video as well.
Interesting. Thank you for those details! That playground went up like a tender box.
I think that high school students should be encouraged to take a Logic 101 course or statistics course instead of calculus. Half absorbing a logic course (how to argue and parse facts and statements to prove truth, fallacies, etc.) would be way more useful than half absorbing some calculus. Same goes for statistics and it assumptions, limitation, and methods for manipulation and distortion.
They did not "replace" the bridge over I-95 in Norwalk. They tore it out to be replaced later. The I-95 in Phila re-opening involved the removal of the span and placing of a specialized fill and then repaving of a narrower section.
Children's playgrounds do not burn that hot, even with shredded tire mulch.
You covered this exactly what the problem is. It will not happen here or we have to many other things happening to have this checked out. Can't hurt to have the fire department do a report on conditions they see needing addressed. Something they will be trying to put out in the future.
Looking forward to your update Casey.
Thank you!
I think leveraging the space under interstate bridges with high clearance for parks, picnic areas and tennis and basketball courts is smart land use techniques. Storage of flammable material should be avoided, but I see value in parking lots under overpasses as smart. It is not like you can grow grass under them. If the terrorists want to burn a bridge, they can find a way.
Yikes.
I was unaware that we've seen an epidemic of playground arsons in the US. I thought most of those plastics had fire retardants in the resin.
The shredded tires used as mulch was a good scam for those looking to dispose of old tires.
For information, the playground was built after the bridge. It was open field under there for a long period of time there’s a restaurant to east of it, but I know that there’s that there was a power box back in there. I’m retired fireman I don’t know it’s not in my territory. It’s just there because I worked a special event
Seems like at least for interstate highway the federal code should prohibit flammable materials under or near bridges
I agree with you.
I live just south of the river in Kentucky. It was a crazy fire. They have the northbound side opened up. The southbound is going to be a while. There’s several structural beams warped and need to be replaced
Wow that was a hot fire
I couldn't believe it!
"less prone to fires" or modular design that would allow repairs with a few days. It looks like "just stop oil" people are unstoppable.
Well, that sucks. During rush hour, it's about the only decent way to get over the river. :/
A children’s playground constructed with those types of flammable materials ?
Some bridges have utility service lines under them. So a simple fire safety modification for bridges at risk may be fire department activated sprinkler system barring that water service is near or hung from the bridge. Or a fire pumper connection on bridges with no near water supply. Also Storage of any flammable material under any bridge should never be allowed.
Thanks for the great suggestions!
Risk Management takes effort, time, and finances. Many local governments are reluctant to institute measures unless forced to by a higher authority.
Forget measures. I'm not even sure they are identifying the risks to begin with.
I have heard that as much as 10 feet depth of the "rubber(?)" mulch is required for safety. If true, it is like planting an oil tanker under the bridge and burning it all.
10 INCHES, NOT FEET. 6 inches of rubber mulch typically provides protection for falls from 16 feet, and most commercial playgrounds typically have 4 to 6 inches. 4 to 6 inches over a playground is still a lot of petroleum.
@@GoCoyote Thank you. Just something I heard casually a few weeks ago. I wondered a little about it but was not important enough to follow-up . . . until . . . . the bridge is roasted from below.
Plastic playground is basically 3 dimensional solid gasoline. Doesn’t need an ignitable liquid to get going that good.
Dang it ! We gotta close those flammable playgrounds cuz they burn bridges that are made of steel and concrete ! (And no more playgrounds under bridges ! Where the bums gonna live?)
Another bridge was put back into temporary service, after it was destroyed, by boxing in the void and filling that area with some type of glass material. Then a surface was installed, this was done very quickly, compared to making the new materials and having to wait.
The I-95 bridge in Philadelphia was repaired with recycled glass after a tanker truck crash destroyed it in June 2023:
Remember the homeless camp fire under I-70 at the railroad bridge between Truman and 18th?
You gotta allow for weather delays of construction, especially Ohio winters.🤨
There is no breeze in Cincinnati during the summer months. It's hot, humid, & stagnant air at times. 🥵
On the other hand, the wind will sure blow up your skirt during the winter months. 🥶
Who thought placing a large amount of Plastic, Wood and Rubber Materials below a Steel Plate Girder Bridge would be a good idea.
Thx for the great book review! Always love finding a new book….but I had this one, in epub ( iPad) version.
Thank you. What did you think of that book?
Play ground by Temu
About 20 years ago about 2 miles north on the south lane where you exit I71 south to I471 south a fuel truck crashed. It had a fire so hot that it burnt up a bridge going over I471 south. And they had to replace the roadway that id I471 south.
What kind of plastic was the playground made from? Titanium and magnesium scrap infused? Something just doesn't add up in its planning. I never really thought I would want a play area under a major bridge anyway. ..then again, look at the people running the show.
I would have thought a fuel tanker crashed under the bridge based on the size of the flames.
Lesson from this and others do not put flammable materials under bridges.
Were they parking a fleet of electric vehicles there? Kind of looked like a battery fire.
Is that you, Vixen? lol
You don’t need to make the bridge safer. You need to hire building officials that know what they are doing. If you don’t know what you are doing you shouldn’t be in a position of someone that approves building permits. Creating safety in the built environment is an actual profession. Doesn’t the Mayor of Cincy know who to hire to keep his city safe from OBVIOUS SAFETY THREATS TO HIS INFRASTRUCTURE?? Jeezus!
How much do you think the Mayor of a major city had to do with the materials included in the playground for a public park? Also consider the current mayor took over in January 2022. Well after the park was constructed.
Why did the Cincy Commissioner of Buildings allow a highly flammable playground installation under a steel bridge. NEWS FLASH: HEAT RISES!
Good thoughts on these fires.
Theres a lot of riverfront park things under the bridges. Smalle park, sawyerpoint park, etc.
This is sad because my kids loved this park 😢
@@ashleygreer903 Yes it's a real shame. I doubt very much that they'll rebuild a playground there.
Here in CA, recent fires destroy the foundation concrete and buildings have to be completely rebuilt.
1:50 Strange looking playground!
There are ways to protect the structural steel with coatings or cementitious cladding such that a liquid fuel tanker fire could burn for up to 4 hours before structural integrity starts to degrade. 60 minutes of protection during a 2,000 F fire would cost $40-50/sq.ft., plus traffic control costs.
Concrete girders are permanently compromised by fires.
Intumescent coatings help but aren’t a guaranteed fix.
Being near this story, the local news reports on it pretty regularly. The news coverage was shocking when it happened for the fire's intensity. I agree that an accelerant could have been used to start it, but not knowing what materials the playground equipment was made of poses the question, "What if kids were playing and that same thing happened?" I've seen back yard playsets made from blow molded polypropylene or polyethylene and given the temperatures those materials likely reached they would also add to the ferocity of the fire. There should be nothing under major arteries like this that burns.
Thanks for the book recommendation! I'm aware of how easily and incredibly stats can be 'cooked', but with the recent mass scandal in Academic Journals and major universities it seems more needed than ever to learn how to see it.
I couldn't agree more.
They need fireproofing and maybe consider having fire sprinklers in some areas like above a playground. Some city’s have miles of above ground highway with green space under it.
People often lash out at the many approvals needed before building anything. This case illustrates that there are good reasons for the approval process and isn't just to annoy the planners/builders/citizens.
It's been a while since I've been to that park, but locally using tiles, sheets, and mulch made from ground tires is a thing.
I can see that causing quite a mess, if ignited (think _Springfield tire fire,_ IYKYK) but it's also not going to spontaneously combust. I have five tons around the pool, and even tried to burn some. It was likely arson, unless some large electrical equipment failure was involved. Not likely, given the 3 AM time of the fire.