The BEST Primer??
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- There are SO many primer brands. It always makes me wonder which one of these is worth my money? Well, it's time we found that out!
AEROSOL RECOMMENDATION
I'm going to do another video with other brands, a quick one. Stay tuned for the aerosol recommendation. I'll edit this when it's out.
All of the following links are amazon associate links. I earn a commission on them at no extra cost to you.*
AIRBRUSH PRIMER RECOMMENDATION
Vallejo Black 60ml: geni.us/lYQL
Vallejo Black 200ml: geni.us/lmtCs
Vallejo White 60ml: geni.us/dFZaLk
Vallejo White 200ml: geni.us/m2C3tY
Badger Black 4oz: geni.us/kPMAHF0
Badger Black 16oz: geni.us/xVlj
Badger Black 32oz: geni.us/tHjA
Badger White 4oz: geni.us/gWKz
Badger White 16oz: geni.us/ErK5ny
Badger White 32oz: geni.us/Scncm
OTHER PRIMERS
I don't think this ones are necessarily bad. Citadel is too expensive for what it offers, Army Painter was a little too glossy, Tamiya was a middle of the road contender, and I'm not even going to link Krylon.
Tamiya: geni.us/dOKzsn
Citadel Black: geni.us/jRUYx
Citadel White: geni.us/npKIp
Army Painter Black: geni.us/EO2oNZi
Thanks for your support!
Primer Comparison Pictures: imgur.com/a/my...
PATREON OR DIE: patreon.miniac.co
BUY MINIAC MODELS/MERCH/DIGITAL COURSES: miniac.co/
SUPPORT MINIAC: miniac.co/page...
RECOMMENDED HOBBY GEAR: miniac.co/page...
PODCAST OR DIE: www.trappedunde... & / trappedunderplastic
GRAM OR DIE: instagram.minia...
AMAZON OR DIE: amzn.to/2vb1j6X
FACEBOOK OR DIE: facebook.miniac.co
END CREDITS SONG: • By the Sword - Ethan M...
INTRO SONG: • Double Helix - Ethan M...
New to miniature painting? Start here: beginner.miniac.co
New to the channel? Start here: videos.miniac.co/
Submit an outro for me to use: forms.gle/h8xo...
BRUSHES STUFF I USE:
Raphael 8404 0: geni.us/SYqlZg
Raphael 8404 1: geni.us/YIBREk
Raphael 8404 2: geni.us/f5j8
Masterson's Cleaner: geni.us/NaBs
Wet Palette: geni.us/m9Fh3cV
AIRBRUSH STUFF:
Sotar 20/20: geni.us/hfhd
Paasche Talon V2 (Priming): geni.us/0JOX
Compressor: geni.us/yLA8xl
Miniac LLC believes in transparency on the web and so we’re disclosing that certain products and links to those products on this site will earn an affiliate commission for any purchases you make. Our goal is to help educate you with the practice of painting minis, but please understand we are doing this as a for-profit business. Additionally, please note that Miniac is not responsible for any damage, injury, or loss incurred as a result of third-party or affiliate products, per the terms of Miniac’s “Product Liability Disclaimer.”* By using any link and/or reference provided by Miniac, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions contained within our “Product Liability Disclaimer.”**t hesitate to contact me by using the contact info on my youtube channel. It can be accessed on home page of the miniac channel in the "about" section.
**Product Liability Disclaimer: miniac.co/page...
I need to give you a lot of credit. This is exactly how we test architectural coatings in the lab: albeit with more sophisticated testing equipment. You did the cross hatch very well and the burnish resistance also. The cycling tool you made is exactly like our labs use, only much more expensive. Kudos
Hey! You've already seen this video! Yeah...sorry about that. Blame Premiere! I checked the box that said "unlisted" and it did whatever it wanted and unfortunately it did it while I was asleep! Bastard...Links in the description now. Sorry for the repost.
I'M GOING TO DO ANOTHER PRIMER VIDEO! WOOHOO! (kill me) It'll be quick. I'm going to do 2 Krylons, 1 Rustoleum, and Mr. Surfacer 1200. Sorry, no paint on primers.
It's ok scott I still love you
get your shit together Scott come on. messing messing
I will forgive this... this time... HAHA Keep it metal dude! I too listen to tech death metal while i paint too... What an amazing year for minis and metal!! \,,,/
This pleases me greatly
Miniac what bad things you have heard about armory?
I was (technically) in a Miniac video. I consider this an official crossover 🤩
Re: priming in cold weather....as someone that lives in the coldest city on earth I can confirm you can get away with priming even in -30C weather if you do it quickly. I prefer to bring pieces inside asap to dry just incase, because, well there is no reason to leave them out in the cold after spraying.
Heck yes, dude! I couldn't resist keeping your comment in there.
@@Miniac both you guys answer all my questions, you guys are the best, northern BC here -4 atm, sunny.
I’ve gotten a little bit of texture after leaving things outside in -20f to dry. Good thing that it was stone terrain.
Ayyyyyy
If your cold, their cold too. Bring your freshly primed minis inside
The active volcano question was probably the most metal moment in all of miniature painting tutorials!
"What is best in life!?"
"To prime your miniatures, see them painted before you, and to hear the adulation of the community."
"Hah, Vallejo laughs at your imperial primah."
@@bobamus1987 "Grant me even coverage. And if you do not help me, then to HELL with you!"
@@bobamus1987 My primer lives in the air (brush). Your's lives in a can.
Howdy! Your friendly local Lowe's associate here with some insight into Krylon spray paints! I say paint, because unfortunately the product demoed here is indeed a spray paint with a satin finish. Spray paints, even with a matte finish, don't work very well as a primer, and the satin finish in Krylon sprays, while durable, make a terrible surface for painting on. Krylon Fusion's gray and white primers (they don't offer a black through us, sadly) tend to perform much better, and are actually my choice for mini priming. They have a matter finish than Citadel paints, and while they have a longer drying time, they seem to level and leave details open just about as well. If you are just getting into the hobby or are looking for perhaps a cheaper alternative, I would recommend trying then. For a $5 price tag it's a nice entry point for priming, and from personal experience I prefer it to the $20 stuff. Sorry for the shilling, and thank you for this great content!
You’re right, fusion all in one paint and primer is awesome but there is another that I’m having trouble with, krylons color max with cover maxx tech. Ultra flat, which is sold by hobby lobby. I paint on it and it’s acrylic paint resistant. Maybe I sprayed too much on the surface and should have semi covered the miniature? Please help!
I'm coming to this conversation several years too late, but I just discovered the video, so... hey! I worked in the paint department of a hardware store for a couple of years and had a lot of talks with the paint companies' representatives (Sherwin-Williams, Valspar, Olympic...), so I can actually answer why it's so much easier to paint on top of matte/flat paints than glossy ones. I dealt with wall and furniture paint more than miniature paints, but the principles are the same.
There are a number of solid particles (pigments, fillers, etc) suspended in liquid. Flatter paints have less binder, so more of these particles are poking out of the surface. As a result, they have a higher surface area for additional layers to stick to. Glossier paints, meanwhile, have a higher ratio of binder to solids, which means that less of the particles are sticking out and the final surface is a lot smoother, which results in a more mirror-like finish. Think about how you have to sand a piece of wood with increasingly higher grits to get it smooth and shiny: the same principle applies to the paint.
Primers are almost always matte or flat (which may or may not be the same thing depending on the manufacturer) to make it easier for paint to stick to it. It's also why you typically go over it with a glossier paint: the same properties that make primer easier for paints to adhere to also make it easier for dust, grease, and other substances to stick to, and cleaning it is a nightmare because you'll probably have to scrub so hard to remove the stains that you'll take some of the primer with it. Higher glosses with smoother surfaces are harder for stains to adhere to and are therefore a lot easier to clean off.
If you want to paint on top of a glossy surface, your best bet is to try to dull down the gloss and make it flatter. You'll typically either want to sand it a little to give the surface more tooth, or hit it with a liquid deglosser (which is basically a very mild acid etcher) to do it chemically. The point is that you're trying to make the glossy paint more of a matte finish to paint on top of it, in essence turning it into a primer.
I just saw this - just getting back into painting after a 15 year hiatus. As a science teacher, I'd give you an A+ for a damn fine controlled experiment! Nice job!
Should have tried Rust-Oleum Ultra matte
camo. It's really good stuff for rattle can and cheap at $4 a can.
Scott, Scott, Scott. You are either insane or truly dedicated. I prefer insane, 'cause that would be more fun. Awesome work! As an engineer and a person of science I appreciate your methodology and determination to getting it right.
Honestly, I was surprised that Vallejo came out so highly ranked given some of it's problems. And I've just started using the stuff. There are methods to making it work better i.e. adhesion. And I've found that black and white require slightly different air brush setups and use.
Fantastic work. I'll have to pry open my wallet and support you in some way!!
Gonna chime in and add that I'm also a researcher and really appreciate Scott's dedication to testing methodology, with one important caveat: Scott, man, you've set yourself up for skewed results by identifying the brands in your poll.
Yes, Vallejo scored much higher than any other brand, but even people who want to be objective can wind up favoring certain answers unless you take steps to control for it. If you run a test like this in the future, I recommend giving the samples code numbers, rather than referring to them by brand names. This way you'll be much more confident that you're judging based on merit, rather than how people feel about certain brands.
@@rurone Have to agree with you rurone, but I thought the poll I took only had numbers not names. How many polls were there? Otherwise though, bang on about preventing skewing.
Miniac is the best Mini Painting Teacher on TH-cam.
A great primer not featured here, which I have found to be the best for not obscuring any detail at all, is Mr. Surfacer 1200. Its not cheap, but it is SUPER forgiving if you were to spray a little too much and leaves a super fine smooth surface with just enough bite to it to take paint well. Great primer!
The miniature community in general is not really familiar with lacquer paints since they're almost useless for hand painting. But Mr. Surfacer, undoubtedly, is one of the best, if not the best, primer on the market.
@@duerf5826 yeah I use the rattle can version of it for almost all my minis.
Lacquer paints for hobby use will likely be banned in the next few years. They have already be banned for automotive use because of the excessively toxic particulates from over spray. In fact, there is a black market already in California to get the really glossy car finishers that racers and hot rodders love using banned paint.
Damn that sucks. I quite like lacquer.
Great video man but you used Krylons paint and primer combo which is slightly glossy and thick. Try out their straight up primer. Great stuff👍
Nice video being in the auto restoration business for a long time I can tell u why the temp is important. It's not that it wont cure it's about the time it takes and the adhesion can be effected
What type of paint systems do you use? I would guess mostly solvent based 2K but would be really interested in knowing if water based is used much (I worked for the company that makes the Sikkens line for auto refinish)
@@horaceworblehat317 in my career I've sprayed more than 20 different lines if it's out there I've shot it right now my shop is spraying metalux
good old fashioned high VOC basecoat/clearcoat.....thanks for the reply
This video is fire, so helpful and useful. I’ve been priming all my minis out here in the Arizona summer heat. 115 degree Fahrenheit. I’m finally playing around with color primers and doing contrast shading.
You're doing the lords work here. I have such a hard on for comparisons like this that actually do some testing, not just anecdotal evidence.
Keep the momentum going Scotty your killin the game!
I appreciate your attempts to objectively test products like this. Thanks for the efforts on our behalf.
Well this explains alot of the problems I've been having with Vallejo primers on bigger models. Thanks Scott, very entertaining and informative.
Just got into warhammer and I found my favorite new go to minis youtuber love the metal aesthetic 🤘🏼
I'm loving the methods you use and how you're trying to make it as scientific as possible.
Keep it up, it's nice to see and nice to hear your reasoning for things you're doing.
I applaud your approach, your objectivity, your presentation skills and the quality of your videos! Very well done indeed
Old writing trick for cold cans - put them up your jumper and run on the spot a few minutes! Use slower passes too to compensate for the slower spray. I'm UK so extreme temps aren't an issue, but if it came to it I'd probably try a soft cap nozzle to mist out sluggish paint better.
"AEROSOL RECOMMENDATION
I'm going to do another video with other brands, a quick one. Stay tuned for the aerosol recommendation. I'll edit this when it's out."
I guess that was a lie :'(
Yeah, here I am almost 2 years later and no aerosol recommendation.
@@Nephanor I'm here 7 months after you :(
Forever waiting
One interesting test I’ve always been interested in is a comparison with no primer. Coming from scale modelling it’s not uncommon, when dealing with a pure styrene model, to not bother with primer and just lay down a solid undercoat of typically flat black from an airbrush. Especially for those using non water based paints (mr hobby, Tamiya etc). Based on my own experience a layer of Tamiya paint undercoats smoothly, has no issues with paint adhesion over it and once hit with a typical coat of gloss then Matt varnish I’ve not seen any difference in Wear between primed and simple undercoated.
As a scale modeler too, I think it really depends on what you are working on. I use vallejo primers (brush applied, no airbrush), and they are far better for smaller scaled models than in 1/35 with a lot of flat surfaces while Tamiya is a much better primer for airbrushing and flat surfaces. Really hard to objectively find the best primer out there.
You went deep, man. Thank you for doing this experiment. And the survey easy and quick, and overall useful for all of us.
So my beloved vallejo primer is both the worst and best primer on the market. Hmm.
can't be the best in everything.
it's a miniature primer, not a model kit primer :P
As long as you not tape anything eveything is fine!
Personally I've been pretty happy with the Krylon paints. It's an effective and affordable way to prime and get a basecoat for some models. I have found their coating to be extremely tough, as well, which I've not seen with other primers I've tried. But when I was younger maybe I also didn't clean my models before painting them so perhaps that was part of my issue there.
In my experience the problem with Vallejo primer is that it just doesn't cure right if it's brushed on, no matter how you brush it. And it's extremely tempting to brush because of how perfectly smooth and self-leveling it is. I've had good experiences if I airbrush it on, and then make sure it cures in a dry place for at least 72 hours. For example, when properly cured, Vallejo has even feather-sanded properly for me - something that it just won't do if it's brushed on, or doesn't cure in low humidity conditions.
However one area where Vallejo primer is essential (again in my tests) is on Reaper's bones plastic. Vallejo is flexible enough it won't crack and it adheres OK to bones material.
I have found that Badger's Stynlrez does brush on well and adheres OK if you allow it to cure properly. Stynlrez is however hands down the best touch up primer I've ever used. It absolutely does not dry with bubbles or clog detail, and is perfect for mashing in to hard to reach places that spray can't reach. It's really great for getting down into molded details like vents and grills.
Finally while I know the aerosol video is coming, there is one mainstream rattle can I've found that IMO is amazing: Rustoleum's "Painter's Touch" line of primer. Painter's Touch specifically bonds to plastic and is safe for it (says so on the can). Like so many others, it does not work well on flexible Bones but everything else is good. What makes Painter's Touch great is that it does not obscure detail. It looks very wet when it goes on, but over the next 48 hours as it cures it massively shrinks and contracts. It also feathers away smoothly when sanded.
As a word of caution, Painter's Touch may feel as if it is remaining very faintly tacky for over a day on plastic, but don't panic. It absolutely cures to a rock-hard surface with a texture paint adheres to. It just takes two to three days for its solvents to completely evaporate.
Mr Hobby/Mr Surfacer is a good primer for sanding.
Vallejo is poly urethane based primer, for sure it's going to peel off more easy.
I have, personally, found that you can prime very well in winter as long as it's not freezing and it's dry. I prime the entire Nurgle Start Collecting in the dead of winter and there were absolutely no issues.
Holy shit great science my dude! Your commitment to demystifying the hobby is unmatched.
Great testing and filming. One thing I wanted to mention, from an aerospace painter, is that temperature and humidity play a huge roll in the way paint and primer spray and cure. Now this is only important if your parts are actually taking real world abuse. If you can paint your miniatures in weather you would be comfortable wearing jeans and a tshirt, 60 to 100 degrees roughly. Let them cure in 70 to 100 degrees. Does this really matter? Who knows, they are just toys in the end but we all want the best looking miniatures with the best long term durability. The one thing I never see miniature painters do is use a hair blow dryer to set and help speed the curing process. When it’s cold or humid paint inside or in a heated garage, cure inside.
Not gonna lie, I just use Rust-Oleum painter's touch 2x ultra cover flat grey primer.
5$ for a 12 oz. can, sticks to plastic like I've never seen before, in the sunlight on a nice day it sinks right down onto the plastic and obscures absolutely NO details on minis, and their version of 'flat' is actually a nicer matte finish than other primers I've used.
Food for thought.
Thoughts as food.
The usual.
It's not where the model is cured that's the issue, it's the fact that the paint comes out inconsistently when it is sprayed in suboptimal conditions causing issues such as speckling or powdering. If you put your primer can in warm water before use and make sure you shake it really well, you'll notice a marked difference during winter sprays and especially with paints like Corax White. All due respect and you're vids are excellent!
I don't paint minis, or play any table-top stuff but I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work!
Damnit, I just bought some vallejo primer the other day, wish I'd known about the affiliate link. Next time! Great comparison, the extent you went through with the tests was above and beyond. Keep it up!
Having worked with Vallejo Surface Primer quite a bit, I would like to add something; if you're going to sand it, you should give it roughly 24 hours to cure fully. Before that, yeah, it kind of tears off in bits and chunks but after that time, I've sanded it with absolutely no problem. As for the idea of temperature and humidity affecting primer, it really does depend on both the brand of primer and the material the miniatures are made from; if there's any possibility of shrinking and/or expanding, you can wind up with some pretty nasty cracks in the cured primer. While I've never had it happen (I use an airbrush), I have seen the aftermath on other people's miniatures.
DUDE!!!!! I literally shot Mt Dew through my nose with the "JUST DOOOOOOO IT!!!!" Clip lol!!! Thank you for the laugh!!!
I know im late but you should definitely try Mr.Hobby' primers. Almost everyone I know in the scale model community uses Mr.Hobby' Mr Surfacers. They have awesome detail retention, make spotting inconsistancies in the model easy and have great paint adhesion. I've personally only tried Vallejo's primer and AK interactive's primer so I dont have much to compare it to but they're a leap above these two. I personally use Mr Surfacer 1200 for a grey primer and Mr finishing surfacer 1500 for black and white. They also come in earosol cans but I haven't tried them.
If you want to try them out, I thin them 50/50 with their Mr.Color thinner 110 and spray them at 15-30 PSI.
Finally some real paint science.
Miniac, I know this video is old and all... But Vallejo primer was probably not cured before you tested sanding/peeling. It really needs a day or two of rest before you do stuff to it.
I also heard that applying thin layer of Pledge/Pronto Multi Surface Cleaner can cure Vallejo surface primer in about 15 minutes - haven't tested it yet though, I still need to buy that Cleaner :D
If you live in a cold part of the world then make sure that the Stynylrez doesn't get close to 0C as it goes off (badger had real issues last year when deliveries were left sitting on peoples porches.)
Badger were looking at reformulating Stynylrez to improve it.
I also live in Minnesota. I have been priming in the winter for years. No problems.
Thanks so much for all of the effort you put in to this video! There were certainly some results I didn't expect, for example I'm surprised the Vallejo primer held onto the paint as well as it did.
I do find though, that this is validation for my own choice of Stynlrez. Sandabillity is a huge concern for me, I often prime my models to check that I've filled a crack, so I often have to go back and resand refill, resand again and reprime several times over.
One rattlecan option you didn't test though was auto enamel primer. I feel like this stuff is rock solid on both plastic and metal, once it's on, it's on for good. But it's a hastle, and can go on a bit thick if you're not careful.
Scott: Just as adorable in 2018 as he was in 2015. I've been hooked ever since I started gearing up for making a Drukhari army.
Good test results. I also find the Vallejo primer to work best. You can sand the Vallejo primer but you need to let it cure for at least 24 hours or longer. This is what I did on a 1/48 spitfire and it sanded just fine.
Hey Scott just seen this video this morning just want to say you inspired me in to start painting miniatures keep up the good work!!!!! I'm a loyal subscriber and I love your heavy metal theme!
So if I want to have paint stick on primer, I take Vallejo.
And if I want to have primer stick on plastic, I avoid Vallejo.
Help me...
use vallejo spray paint primer:)
I’ve only ever used vallejo primer brushes on. Never had a problem.
Mission Models Primer!!!!
Spray Vallejo primer on top of Badger primer
base coat in stynelrez, cover in vallejo
Stellar work man. I really appreciate the hard work and time you put into your videos. Thank you
I just noticed that you didn't use Tamiya white, but actually Tamiya fine light gray... it's so light it's hard to tell, but looks like it makes the detials a bit easier to see. I'm going to order some to try.
A truly amazing video! Your method is superbly scientific. I can back up almost all of these findings with anecdotal experiences. That said, I had the absolute worst priming experience with Armory.
Full story: My LGS in Chicago doesn't sell rattle can primer due to county regulations. However, they do have a table setup out in the alley that you can prime at using their can of Armory White primer. So I took my Nightvault box set of dudes that were prepped, filled, filed, sanded, and textured out back and primed them on a super humid, high 70F evening. The results were complete garbage. Most of the primer seemed to have dried in the air and brushed off leaving this horrid texture. The places that were actually covered obscured so much detail. After a good 30min of working with it, nothing turned out good enough to be painted. I had to strip off all the primer, putty, green stuff and start over.
I do not know how old the can was and neither did the employee, but I shook it up for ages to get it to sound 'right' before spraying. So I guess the moral is, don't trust a can you didn't procure yourself? Or more importantly, if it isn't working, just stop and walk away.
Dope, thanks for taking the time, Ill be passing this vid along.
YOU SHOULD NEVER PRIME IN HUMIDITY!!! Believe me I live in FL and unless you like little bumps all over your model you don't prime in humidity (same goes for spray lacquer; NEVER DO IT!) I have 'tested' this curing indoors and to my chagrin models were ruined. MN humidity 'scoffs'. I should state that I use Army Painter and as long as there is low or no (Better) humidity it comes out smoother and sharper than any other brand I've used (Krylon, Rust-oleum, Citadel)... Though I am also interested in trying Vallejo hobby color spray (can)... Other than the humidity comment VERY EXCELLENT VIDEO, definitely subscribing!
But the REAL question is do the Citadel rattle cans such as McCragge Blue and Mephiston Red have ANY primer within them ? Citadel claims that the Corax White and Chaos Black do have primer in them but do the rest of the range have any ? Can anyone find a straight answer ? For me it's big bottle of Vallejo primer into an airbrush maybe with a couple of drops of Vallejo air flow
improver, they even have big bottles of Olive Drab primer for U.S. World War II tanks
I have been using all of their colors as primers (whether they have any chemical properties as primers or not) and have never had any issues to speak of. In fact, when scraping away paint from joints in order to glue together my subassemblies, I find it rather difficult to remove the paint from the plastic without scraping away the plastic itself. As far as I'm concerned, they are all primers. Hope that helps.
Just for background, I am an expert painter with years of experience using many different brands.
@@elescapo yeah I always suspected that the non Chaos Black and Corax White Citadel rattle cans also had an element of primer within them. Weird thing is that Citadel don't advertise that.
They do. When I spray retributor armour if you wipe lightly when wet the gold comes off and the black is revealed.
@@Fireclaws10 interesting Rochyan ... strange that GW doesn't publish the fact that they have some sort of priming agent in ALL their cans not just Chaos Black and Corax White.. I use rattle cans for emergencies when i cannot be bothered to load up the airbrush. Of course the airbrush Citadel paint straight from the pot (with a little thinner) has no primer so it's swings and roundabouts.
KREATOR! KREATOR! KREATOR!
Sorry, coming from the birthplace of that marvellous band I had to do this.
Keep up the excellent work my man Scott!
You are the best man, thanks for the laughs and the best content out there!
Could you do a guide about good gloss/satin/matt varnish brand?
I want this
Great Video! I just started mini painting but went with Vallejo Primer as everyone in my circles said it was a good paint to start with. Glad I wasn't wrong with my choice. I'll have to try Badger when I run out of Primer.
Armory black primer is so friggin good. Too good... Years ago my dad took it and used it to prime some wood he was going to paint for a carpentry project while I was out of town working on a shoot. When I returned home he came to me saying how awesome and matte it was... and that he used up the rest of the can >.>
This is a great video! If you take suggestions, you should do some similarly rigorous testing with the three types of varnish.
I'm model maker i'm just starting to paint minis. So for models i was using Vallejo for a long time but in recent years i switched to Badger. The thing is that i like Vallejo but you need to leave the primer at least 48h to fully cure befor aplaying next paint especialy if you use masking tape or try to sand model. But with Badger it's just truble free primer that cure super fast. Now even with Badger primer i still leave model to cure for a day just to be sure i really don't want to destroy paint job after working on model for many hours, and allowing primer to cure proprly can save you a lot of truble .
Damn Scott, your level of patience is insane - thumbs up man!
Cracking video mate. If I'm honest I didn't think I'd like your style of video when I started watching but you've completely won me over with videos like this :) Liked and suuuubbed
This guy helped me so many times and iam in warhammer since 1993.his vids are on a very high standart and i love them!
For an airbrush primer I'd like to recommend Mr. Surfacer by Gunze Sagyo. It comes in grey, white and black, it's extremely durable and sandable and it has very good coverage. Also the levelling thinner they make turns it into priming easy mode. It's lacquer based though, so wear a mask.
I'd agree with your conclusions on Vallejo (i use that all the time, black, grey and white). I found that vallejo primer is a much more plastic and takes a lot longer to cure properly but it does suffer from "tearing off" in sheets as it's a film of plastic (anyone who's tried to sand/clean mold lines on a Wizkids pre-primed model will have experienced this. I usually leave my primed stuff to one side for a week in my warm dry office to really set helps. I've found that especially on wizkids models and reaper bones (as they are very flexible) vallejo works great as it will bend and flex rather that flake off. On metal models that i haven't properly keyed the surface on though it will literally rub off with my finger.
I've been trying to figure out how Wizkids paints their Heroclix figures for 2 years. I want to create some custom Heroclix figures either out of an epoxy resin or high temp urethane (so they don't bend like putty in car heat like current figures) but wasn't sure how to paint my figures to have as strong a paint job as the factory versions. I thought maybe they were using some type of UV cure epoxy paint system, based on how well the paint stays on the figures for years when tumbling around in players' boxes. Let me know if you have any tips
I've had problems with my vallejo primer coming off the plastic, and I thought I had just been doing something wrong, but now I know that it wasn't just me
For aerosol, I've been using Army Painter and has worked well so far. Vallejo for airbrush.
I recently happened upon a case of the now discontinued Plasti-kote Black Super Primer and that stuff is amazing.
I tried your test but for one it was too lengthy for me. It also was relatively unclear what you were looking for. Perhaps next time have a quick summary of your experiment because when I say what you had done and what your were looking for, it became clearer why the poll was used.
Awesome work and keep it up! You are easily one of my favorite mini painting channels.
You do every topic better than all of the rest. What a bloody great channel you have. Also, listen to new Black Tongue.
SLUDGY AF yeah boiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Man, I'm so happy that you are the way you are, Scott. From anyone else I feel like I'd have gotten some "OH tHe BEst prImEr iS wHAt YoU nEeD, yOu CAn't SaY oNe iS BeST". And here I get several tests and various opinions. Love it!
Great video Scott, I love Krylon primer, you have satin paint/primer maybe give their matt primer a chance it's very inexpensive. They also have an ultra matt camo series in some colors that you normally can't find in primers, but it's double the price of the normal primer. (A quick shout out to uncle Atom from Tabletop Minions, this is where I originally found this info.)
Interesting video.
Have used Krylon since the mid 1970's; have tried others, but never found a replacement that surpassed it.
Have used the Fusion version, since its release, exclusively on soft plastic miniatures (1/32nd | 54mm Napoleonic, WW2 and ECW) and found it had vastly superior adhesion to a notoriously difficult plastic to keep paint on. This, followed by artist/professional Gesso.
Now, the ugly truth that will make most fellow toy painters sob, cry and scream: for the almost 50 years I have been in this hobby, I have painted thousands of miniatures in 15mm - 120mm using just about every medium; 4/5ths were "primed" with Krylon Flat White and/or Ultra Flat Black spray PAINT - NOT primer. Of these, ZERO have had issue - many (white metal) even after being painted in oils and/or oil-rubbed and baked in an oven for several hours.
In reality, the paint gave a better finish than the primer, hence its preferred use.
The remaining 1/5th were "primed" with Gesso and over a dozen rattle-can brands (the latter to give fair tests). Love Gesso for its durability and never obscuring detail - due to its process when drying.
My sincere hope is that this post will give additional experience-based insight to supplement the information contained in this top-quality video.
My best luck with primer is the $1 quik color matte white/black from Home Depot. Has really matte finish, great stick and doesn't obscure fine details.
Citadel primer is based on acetone, which makes it exceptional at sticking to plastic, but kinda meh at bonding to paint. Vallejo is the other way around. Forgot what's it based on, but it focuses on bonding paint rather than sticking to plastic.
Thanks for the tips and info! I'm ordering some primer tomorrow as a matter of fact. I don't like the pre primed minis. I scrub them off with soapy water & just don't remember the paint working as well as it did when i brushed it on 30-34 years ago.
I appreciate your videos. I just painted my first model Saturday
I'm always gonna go with Stynylrez but its nice knowing there are other options, now if I only knew which masking tape to use.
I've often wondered bout this. Thx for doing the hard work for me.
I have fallen in love with the badger primers myself. They are pretty good.
I use vallejo primers mostly, and I have encountered issues with durability. They really need a while to fully cure, at least 24 hours, but even then it's not as tough as Citadel. It peels off instead of sanding well like Citadel does. I have had a lot of issues with Citadel primers in hot or cold weather too - particularly Corax White. It can become dusty or clump up in certain conditions, it seems.
Krylon makes an ultra-flat primer if matte is what you're looking for. It's what I use most. I like Army Painter coloured primers, but not their black or white.
Great video as usual, Scott. The problem I have with Badger primer is airbrush clean-up. It really seems to gum up my airbrush much more so than my Vallejo primers. Anybody else have this problem? I do like the plastic adhesion of Badger though, or, more specifically, the resin adhesion.
Only things for me was not including Rustoleum and not including metal miniatures. Rustoleum worked pretty well for me so far and have seen it recommended quite a few places, but wish I knew how well it stacked up (since I'm still new to this so don't have the experience to say I like it more than X, Y, or Z brand). The other things is that there's a lot of minis out there that are metal, so it'd be interesting to know how good some of these brands are at adhering to metal instead of plastic.
Hey Miniac, awesome video man, but could you please consider making that video on the aerosol brands down the line?
I ask because, bein a total painting noobie amidst a pandemic, without an airbrush, has me running in circles for genuine good knowledge about what primer is worth its salt.
Krylon, Rustoleum, Armory (white sold out everywhere/discontinued?), GW, Army Painter etc would be an absolute God send.
Seems everybody hates every brand, except GW which is...coincidental amongst 40K "folk".
Anyway, great videos, love em all. But a good comprehensive primer video covering aerosol brands would fill a major gap in my knowledge, without forcing me to buy them all (Please don't make me buy the $30 GW ;~;)
Could you please do this for different types of plastic? plastics like ABS would somewhat dissolve with the use of a solvent theoretically being able to fuse much better with the primer, while a 3d-printed in PETG or PLA that counts for nothing, metal is a whole different story of using acid primers.
This comparison is great. One type of Primer it'd be great if you tested is self-etching automotive primer.
Dope video, I’m interested to see what you say is the better paint sealer/ varnish for protecting your minis
Something to think about dude is car bumper paint. I've used that for years (for Matt black anyway) and I've always had good results since it's designed to be painted over with car paint. Maybe check that out? And it's way cheaper
Rustoleum x2 satin for plastic black is my MVP primer. Best bang for the buck at 5 dollars a can at walmart.
Great video! Would be interesting to do the same thing with clear coats, especially the weather part.
Love your video editing with crazy transitions 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm surprised Krylon didn't do better. I've been using it forever, and I've never had problems. The black looks more like Citadel black's satin finish (which makes black-basing almost unnecessary), and it seems pretty resistant to damage (at least for me). To be fair, I don't have an airbrush, and I only really use Citadel paints, so that may skew my results. Still, now I'm 'primer-curious' about the others you showed... :)
A few comments:
Bendy plastics (like Reaper Bones or Dwarven Forge Dwarvenite) seem to have a significant interaction between the plasticizer that makes the model bendy (and that facilitates mold ejection) and the solvent in most rattle can primers. On those substrates, a spray primer can give you stickiness that doesn't resolve for at least months. Note that this can show up even after painting the model. I would strongly recommend against using spray can primers on bendy plastics.
Krylon Fusion != Krylon Sandable Primer. It looks like they've changed their branding, so it's unclear to me which current Krylon primer is equivalent to that. I've used Krylon Sandable primer for decades without the results you saw here, but I've only used it on metals. FWIW, I think that Armory primer might be rebadged Krylon primer, but that was based on examination of the cans years ago.
I've also had good results from Duplicolor primers on metals. (Check your local auto parts store.)
I've had the same results as you showed when priming in the cold; no problem as long as you go outside, prime right away, and return inside. I know people in Florida who have reported having had problems with high humidity in the heat, which could be caused by water condensing in the much cooler spray from a spray can, but I've heard more of more problems in using a spray sealer. Since I live in Colorado, humidity isn't much of an issue for me, though.
Doug, can you post a link on amazon to the Duplicolor Primer you use?
@@Miniac It's been a while since I bought any, so the labels have changed, but I think this is the same thing:
www.amazon.com/Dupli-Color-DAP1689-General-Purpose-Sandable/dp/B002984MTG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1541779184&sr=8-7&keywords=duplicolor+primer
So bendy plastics should only be primed with brush on really?
@@chuppath1ngy Some people have reported that they've managed to get certain spray primers to work, but generally yes. At the least you should test any spray primer on sprue a day or so before trying it on an actual mini. (You can always use an airbrush for most brush-on primers of course.)
If you do get sticky coatings on bendy minis, people seem to have had good results stripping with Simple Green or Purple Power.
@@chuppath1ngy I've used the armory primer from this video on my Bones minis for the last 3 years. I tend to use the gray rather than black or white, but it's got pretty good adhesion as long as you clean the mini first with dish soap and an old tooth brush.
Wind is my greatest enemy for rattlecan priming. I think my take away from this video is that with good technique you can get good results from most brands, but some brands may be more forgiving than others. Duplicolor and Tamiya are some of my favorite sprays because I think they are a bit more user friendly.
I second the thing about he bowl of warm water. It also helps to preven the can from chilling from the propellant when priming several miniatures in one session.
The Krylon is a finish paint though isn't it, not a primer to be covered with another paint?
No it's a primer but it contains an adhesion promoter. This adhesion promoter dissolves plastic which causes the paint to actually fuse with the plastic. It is an amazing plastic primer but a terrible miniatures primer as it will destroy detail
@@MrImOriginal Bullshit. That can he uses in the video is a Satin Paint, it may have a primer in it, but it is a finished product...you DO NOT paint over it to get you r finish coat. Krylon makes fantastic Primers, too bad he didn't use one.
I think the issue of priming in different temperatures or humidities relates more to the adhesion than the look of it.
Good on you for using ASTM certified test methods for adhesion btw. Exact same tests I used to do when I tested airplane paint.
I should've contacted you about it. Someone knew I was doing it and told me about the ASTM process!
@@Miniac And work on those knife cuts! no lateral scraping....... :)
What do you mean by "sanding the primer"? You are the only person I hered even say doing this on YT.
Super awesome video as usual Scott. I have a question -- did you let the Vallejo Surface Primers cure for 24 hours before testing them? That's what Vallejo recommends, so I'm curious what the results would be if you let it cure for 24 hours before testing (if you didn't do that in your tests, and since you didn't mention it, it was a question I had come up in my mind). Also, one thing I would like to know is primer adhesion on resin (such as Forge World) as opposed to just regular plastic. I have a friend that won't use any primer on resin except for automotive primer. In my experience, automotive primers really do adhere to resin better (and yes, I do all the necessary cleaning/de-greasing/de-mold-release-agent-ing before priming). What is mold release agent, anyway? From Forge World I assume it's orphan tears, but I could be wrong...
www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/mold-release-agents