Having walked up there a few years ago it's exactly as you described - one minute you are on a path, the next, you are right in the middle of the villa. Fantastic place.
I walked to this site around 28 years ago with my children, then all quite small. It didn't look that different though the OS map I had then (and still have) has sites like this marked on it, which they don't now. I was also using Roger Wilson's Guide to the Roman Remains of Britain, long out of print, which provides information about such locations. It's probable that Wadfield and Spoonley Wood were on the same estate but were occupied by different family units within the larger owning family.
Hello Guy, I just realised two things. Firstly, I did not respond to your comment, and that was at least bad style but, given the length and thoughtfulness of your text, actually rude, and, secondly, I should have gone and looked at your amazing channel and tried to start a discussion about future ideas which just might be interesting for both of us. Unfortunately, or perhaps wisely, you didn't put any contact details in your about-page and so this is the only way I (think) I can get in touch. I can be messaged at mattmesserpics@gmail.com - just in case you read this and are interested to chat about things still to uncover about ancient Britain. All the best and apologies again - I should have responded back in November. Cheers, Matt
Very interesting. Two villas that close to each other is intriguing. Either they date from different periods or the nearest settlement was sufficiently stable and prosperous to enable both. At the very least they have to be related even if one was a source of building material for the other. The coin record if one exists would probably prove or disprove my theory one way or another.
Lovely video, but I do not think Emma Dent was the sort of person to say "I'll have that!". Many Victorians were, but she wanted to preserve the mosaic from the fate which had been suffered by one at Wadfield Villa, about half of which was taken by souvenir hunters. When she was told by one of her workers that he had found another burial chamber at Belas Knap, she told him to leave it and cover it up.
Thanks Anne! The perils of amateur investigations - I have been too harsh on Emma Dent. But I got a bit carried away when I realised, bit by bit, that there is not a single piece of the original mosaics surviving except the 6x9 inch piece in the Winchcombe Museum. I am giving her the full credit she deserves in my piece about Belas Knap which should come online in a few minutes...
@@MattMesserPics Actually, I think the piece in Winchcombe Museum probably came from Wadfield Villa, even though it is labelled Spoonley! I'm looking forward to watching Belas Knap!
Thanks! I guarantee you will enjoy the visit. And, if you walk there from Winchcombe, you may want to have a look at the old waterwheel: th-cam.com/video/izKF1rAnlsA/w-d-xo.html (shameless self-promotion)
Very interesting, thank you. It’s my understanding that these villas were converted into monasteries, and then of course the monasteries were destroyed by the Protestant “reformation”, which is a strange choice of words which describes the destruction of Roman Catholic buildings. . What we have here is the “reformed” villa perhaps, but the history of it would be found in Catholic Church records such as the Sancta Sanctorum, written in Latin.
I like the Macdonald throwing types or should it be I dislike them, well alot of people without knowing actually fit that apt description. I grew up in South London on Denmark Hill adjacent to the Fox On The Hill public house and for all my time there 60s and 70s there was a triangular piece of land about half an acre in front of the public house which was fenced off. Us kids and we were quite a tribe never ventured in there! I can honestly say I never ever saw a living sole in there, that was until I returned once in the early 2000s and to my utter horror saw them! 'The world and his dog" It had become the Fox On The Hills front 'pub garden' there already being a substantial rear garden just endorsed the crime. Who was/is the criminal responsible, obviously not 'the world and his dog' mere ignorant vandals in this case. No the person seeking permission for change of use and the official granting permission. This unmarked insignificant strip of waste land had for centuries peacefully held its reason d'etre. Those like our tribe (fear not withstanding ) who knew its secret respectively left it alone and by the vast majority it just went unnoticed. You've probably guessed it's one of Londons plague burial sites.
I wonder if the castle truly has been thoroughly explored. Those old piles are known to have rooms that are often hidden, walled over, or simply forgotten, & it's possible that one of them still holds one or more of the mosaics, having been stored there "for a moment" then forgotten. Unless a systematic search of the castle has been undertaken.
Or simply paved over or covered with a hardwood floor. I have started to wonder a while ago whether it might not be worthwhile contacting Sudeley estate and see if they'd be willing to share some thoughts. It could be done in cooperation with the Winchcombe museum.
Hi Debbie, The highest resolution you can get is in one of the rare surviving copies of the Winchcombe and Sudeley Records, a magazine Emma Dent published in the 1890s. The Winchcombe museum people very kindly allowed me to make a high resolution scan of it which is the basis of some images in my video. If you send me an email address, I'd be happy to mail you a high-res copy.
Thank you! Do you have a Facebook account that I could DM it to rather than putting it on here? Otherwise I can go into Winchcombe museum as I’m local 😊. My partner is from Winchcombe and we know spoonley well so wanted to take the map with us on our next walk out that way. We found a roof tile last time we were there - but left it in situ and just photographed it. You get a good idea of most of the footings if you visit in the winter when the foliage has died back
It really does. My money would be on the rubble of the collapsed sheds, now indistinguishable from the rest. But it could easily be located from old records.
I have given her a bit unjustified bad press in this video. Later-on, when I researched for Belas Knap, the people at Winchcombe museum told me more about her and I also found an old copy of her book about the area. Quite a remarkable woman, really...
Oh, I should have corrected myself long ago on that one: The new owners are the descendants of Emma Dent, so it wasn't actually sold. There could be many reasons for removing the greenhouses. The maintenance of the place is nightmarischly expensive , so you can't keep everything. All that happened more than a hundred years ago and people back then just weren't so interested in Roman mosaics. Difficult to imagine from today's point of view.
This was disappointing. Why start your video by pretending that it's a big secret when it isn't? Fake News? The mosaic there is simply a reconstruction. There are many villa sites in the UK with genuine and fascinating Roman mosaics as I'm sure you know
Having walked up there a few years ago it's exactly as you described - one minute you are on a path, the next, you are right in the middle of the villa. Fantastic place.
Ah - another Spoonley Wood Enthusiast. Welcome to the, still rather exclusive, club!
And thanks for the nice comment!
Please keep making these videos, I enjoyed the content and style.
Excellent video, the story arc of your presentation is exciting!
I walked to this site around 28 years ago with my children, then all quite small. It didn't look that different though the OS map I had then (and still have) has sites like this marked on it, which they don't now. I was also using Roger Wilson's Guide to the Roman Remains of Britain, long out of print, which provides information about such locations. It's probable that Wadfield and Spoonley Wood were on the same estate but were occupied by different family units within the larger owning family.
Hello Guy,
I just realised two things. Firstly, I did not respond to your comment, and that was at least bad style but, given the length and thoughtfulness of your text, actually rude, and, secondly, I should have gone and looked at your amazing channel and tried to start a discussion about future ideas which just might be interesting for both of us. Unfortunately, or perhaps wisely, you didn't put any contact details in your about-page and so this is the only way I (think) I can get in touch. I can be messaged at mattmesserpics@gmail.com - just in case you read this and are interested to chat about things still to uncover about ancient Britain. All the best and apologies again - I should have responded back in November. Cheers, Matt
Very interesting. Two villas that close to each other is intriguing. Either they date from different periods or the nearest settlement was sufficiently stable and prosperous to enable both. At the very least they have to be related even if one was a source of building material for the other. The coin record if one exists would probably prove or disprove my theory one way or another.
Lovely video, but I do not think Emma Dent was the sort of person to say "I'll have that!". Many Victorians were, but she wanted to preserve the mosaic from the fate which had been suffered by one at Wadfield Villa, about half of which was taken by souvenir hunters. When she was told by one of her workers that he had found another burial chamber at Belas Knap, she told him to leave it and cover it up.
Thanks Anne! The perils of amateur investigations - I have been too harsh on Emma Dent. But I got a bit carried away when I realised, bit by bit, that there is not a single piece of the original mosaics surviving except the 6x9 inch piece in the Winchcombe Museum. I am giving her the full credit she deserves in my piece about Belas Knap which should come online in a few minutes...
@@MattMesserPics Actually, I think the piece in Winchcombe Museum probably came from Wadfield Villa, even though it is labelled Spoonley! I'm looking forward to watching Belas Knap!
Morning Anne, just in case you haven't found it yet: th-cam.com/video/qnWS5PP1wEw/w-d-xo.html
Great video - thanks. I have been meaning to visit Spoonley Wood for many years since reading Bryson, i will do soon
Thanks! I guarantee you will enjoy the visit. And, if you walk there from Winchcombe, you may want to have a look at the old waterwheel:
th-cam.com/video/izKF1rAnlsA/w-d-xo.html
(shameless self-promotion)
Very interesting, thank you. It’s my understanding that these villas were converted into monasteries, and then of course the monasteries were destroyed by the Protestant “reformation”, which is a strange choice of words which describes the destruction of Roman Catholic buildings. . What we have here is the “reformed” villa perhaps, but the history of it would be found in Catholic Church records such as the Sancta Sanctorum, written in Latin.
Thank you Mathias, who can do the search work?
I like the Macdonald throwing types or should it be I dislike them, well alot of people without knowing actually fit that apt description. I grew up in South London on Denmark Hill adjacent to the Fox On The Hill public house and for all my time there 60s and 70s there was a triangular piece of land about half an acre in front of the public house which was fenced off. Us kids and we were quite a tribe never ventured in there! I can honestly say I never ever saw a living sole in there, that was until I returned once in the early 2000s and to my utter horror saw them!
'The world and his dog"
It had become the Fox On The Hills front 'pub garden' there already being a substantial rear garden just endorsed the crime.
Who was/is the criminal responsible, obviously not 'the world and his dog' mere ignorant vandals in this case. No the person seeking permission for change of use and the official granting permission.
This unmarked insignificant strip of waste land had for centuries peacefully held its reason d'etre. Those like our tribe (fear not withstanding ) who knew its secret respectively left it alone and by the vast majority it just went unnoticed.
You've probably guessed it's one of Londons plague burial sites.
You certainly left a cliff-hanger!
...even the dog was nice... haha!
glad at least someone spots those little...puns(?)...
I wonder if the castle truly has been thoroughly explored. Those old piles are known to have rooms that are often hidden, walled over, or simply forgotten, & it's possible that one of them still holds one or more of the mosaics, having been stored there "for a moment" then forgotten. Unless a systematic search of the castle has been undertaken.
Or simply paved over or covered with a hardwood floor. I have started to wonder a while ago whether it might not be worthwhile contacting Sudeley estate and see if they'd be willing to share some thoughts. It could be done in cooperation with the Winchcombe museum.
I'm 50% Irish ancestry and thought I was crazy until I met my 100% Irish friend. I'm also 1/8th German. I understand.
do you know where you can get a copy of the map of the villa that you showed?
Hi Debbie, The highest resolution you can get is in one of the rare surviving copies of the Winchcombe and Sudeley Records, a magazine Emma Dent published in the 1890s. The Winchcombe museum people very kindly allowed me to make a high resolution scan of it which is the basis of some images in my video. If you send me an email address, I'd be happy to mail you a high-res copy.
Thank you! Do you have a Facebook account that I could DM it to rather than putting it on here? Otherwise I can go into Winchcombe museum as I’m local 😊. My partner is from Winchcombe and we know spoonley well so wanted to take the map with us on our next walk out that way. We found a roof tile last time we were there - but left it in situ and just photographed it. You get a good idea of most of the footings if you visit in the winter when the foliage has died back
Hi Debbie, yes, the link is facebook.com/matthias.messer/ you can also DM me on mattmesserpics@gmail.com
This looks like a job for the TIME TEAM.
It really does. My money would be on the rubble of the collapsed sheds, now indistinguishable from the rest. But it could easily be located from old records.
Liked and sub’d
Thanks! This place is one of my personal favourites.
Ouch! Emma was a bit naughty.
I have given her a bit unjustified bad press in this video. Later-on, when I researched for Belas Knap, the people at Winchcombe museum told me more about her and I also found an old copy of her book about the area. Quite a remarkable woman, really...
Where is Time Team?!
Why would somebody buy a castle and not want the greenhouses?
Oh, I should have corrected myself long ago on that one: The new owners are the descendants of Emma Dent, so it wasn't actually sold. There could be many reasons for removing the greenhouses. The maintenance of the place is nightmarischly expensive , so you can't keep everything. All that happened more than a hundred years ago and people back then just weren't so interested in Roman mosaics. Difficult to imagine from today's point of view.
This was disappointing.
Why start your video by pretending that it's a big secret when it isn't?
Fake News?
The mosaic there is simply a reconstruction.
There are many villa sites in the UK with genuine and fascinating Roman mosaics as I'm sure you know
Have you really nothing better to say? Let's see your videos on quirky and interesting bits of history, Professor Hume...oh wait, you don't have any.
What a whiner... you must be French.