It was surprising to me how interesting I found the photos from inside people's homes. It's such a relatable moment in time, but also equally haunting because we know the story behind the pictures. Art is a very personal thing, and one can imagine the type of person these works belong to, as well. If I was the heir to works discovered in some museum somewhere, I'd never sell them, I'd want them back yesterday.
@@nomine4027 Curious, now that pundits and media-matric persons are being interviewed or pod / broadcasting from their homes , do you check out what’s behind them and their general environment - other than their latest book on the bookshelf behind them perpendicular to all other books?
Although I totally empathise with the families plight, I look at the image of the Madonna and wonder. Although it may have come to them through a “reputable” art dealer. Who ripped it out of its niche in a church or castle in the first place? Was it originally the spoils of some one else’s war or stolen or obtained illegally. When we see “reputable” houses like Christie’s or Sotheby’s trading in plundered works, one can only wonder.
Poignant and insightful piece. I was particularly touched by the Saulman estate heir's desire to have the large family home be used as a home for refugee children. It looks like it could be the perfect calming and safe space for kids, especially with the gentle horses. I hope that dream was realized.
Great content DW! Great work, researchers from Germany. An example on how to face dark times of political history. Greetings from brazil, and resisting fascism.
I mean. You are talking about paintings that were bought, then stolen from families. There are definitely items in European museums that were taken from countries in a way that wouldn't be done today. But it was not looting. And also. The Jews' art was taken by Nazi officials. The museums did not steal from them
Yes, and it is interesting how provenance goes back just to the jewish families but no further back. As it was said in this documentary, provenance wasn't that people were interested in those days. But that also means that jewish owners were not interested where their new painting came from. They paid a dealer. (And as any buyer they wanted to have it cheap). But, Nazis payed also (not in most of the cases). I wonder if someone would go and find out about provenance further back in history.
@@patriciabrenner9216 ? its literally the truth...dw even made a documentary about just some of the looted african art that Europe STILL refuses to give back
Vatican also. They smuggled Nazis through Rat lines to South America, USA, Canada, Australia... AndVatican suported Fascism. So... that would be good place to rummage. 👌
@@patriciabrenner9216 think they got most of that already, the Allie’s took a lot (that was originally stolen and also a lot that wasn’t, damn Commies) then in the last few decades a lot of it was turned over. Maybe some left but that is usually stuff the current owners didn’t even know what it was since they bought it after the war ended.
Such a sad story. Art isn't just a possession. It's something people truly cherish. This story was particularly sad because it wasn't just thier collected art but , everything they worked for , owned and knew.
Very interesting reportage. With digitalization, database, and the network it will be easier to discover and return looted art. However, as the report says, It can't be the museum that makes the decisions to keep or to return a looted artwork but only the rightful owner.
A lot were burned. Maria Farmer, the woman that reported Leslie Wexner, Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, Ivana Trump, The Rothschild Family, and such to the FBI in the 90s, also talked about how Robert Maxwell took anything he wanted from British Museums. Robert was the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, and I believe known for embezzling pension funds. He was also most likely a spy. When I was younger I never believed the rumors about the Mona Lisa being a fake or the stuff about The Rothschild Family. Now I believe: the Mona Lisa has a good chance of being fake and I don't know where the real one is; and The Rothschild Family is pure evil, as well as the first citizens of Terra Mar. Terra Mar was a NGO created by Ghislaine Maxwell. It was/is(?) a collection of people citizens to control the oceans and do as they will.
The documentary is fascinating and very well made. The voice over the German is disappointing, I like hearing the people's voice and language it adds to the interview personality. Subtitles are just fine. Thank you for making this.
Art dealers buy stuff at auction and almost immediately resell it to museums for huge profits happens all the time because museums then go to their big donors and ask for donations for acquiring a specific piece. They can’t do that before the auctions because there isn’t enough advance notice and they don’t know how much money it’s going to cost at an auction
Moral of the story? You can replace objects. You can't replace the lives of the people the Nazi's put to death. Or all those who fought that war to help bring about peace.
Great Docu. Agree that stolen art must be repatriated and/or handed over to the rightful owners/heirs and be kept in a good facility, like a Museum to be preserved. Destruction and eradication of cultural arts, literature etc is indeed a form of cultural genocide. This not only reminds me about the horror committed by colonialism and Nazi Germany, but also the Pogrom committed against the Palestinians where their cultural arts/literature was largely destroyed by Israely regimes, with the same aim , to get rid of the existence of the history of a people.
I can’t see how anyone could possibly own a piece of this tragic art snd live with themselves. As for the nazis who took it home with them, surely the family must know that they have something in their possession that they probably never could have afforded. Where are people’s conscience. That poor, poor woman. What she must have endured. May she Rest In Peace 🙏🙏🙏🙏🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
I want to know how art that was paid for no matter what the price had been can be claimed by the family that sold it saying it was looted. Taking advantage of people who need money and paying peanuts for the items isn't looting. Just because it was wrong to take advantage of people doesn't make it illegal. The art that was actually stolen is a different story those need to be returned no matter what
Was looking for a comment that touched on this. Yes I sort of feel similar - In this specific case the artwork collection was sold to an art dealer, not "looted" or stolen. However, like you mentioned, a lot of antiquities and cultural pieces were stolen, destroyed, etc and I'm glad there's people working on tracking those things down.
They sold the art under duress, ie they could not leave the country due to the demands of a criminal regime that they should pay a horrendous tax that forced them to sell the work to raise the money. It was certainly not an arms' length sale.
@@mjay4700 You've obviously missed the key legal point, which is that they were forced to sell due to the threats to their lives posed by a criminal regime. They didn't sell simply because they were in financial distress.
Exactly. The US n many other colonials looted their colonies with zero money. Here its not loot. Its mass selling which is still done today when a family member dies.
If you want to find the Natzi stolen art it's in Argentina and swisserland banks hidden there during the end of the war I found out from a Natzi ss soldier in he 70s he told me and showed me pictures
Well if you find my grandfather’s antique clock let me know it was looted by Nazi’s in western Poland. Definitely let me know. My mother paid the Nazi flight tax so I suppose she would have been entitled to repatriation of the antique clock
Yes, and some of it is showing up here in the Goodwill and other various thrift stores because we have had a large German population and some of them are passing now.
They make such a big deal about the "legacy" of the Saulmann's left, first, their house, but they lived there for only, what, 5 or 6 years? That's not a legacy. That's a rental. The current and former home owners have proably lived there for decades but who cares? Then, the art that they possessed for just a few years. It was wrong to have been pressured to sell their art (let alone the holocaust) but let's not exaggerate any sort of legacy. The art itself was likely passed around, bought and resold over and over, with some winners, and some losers. There were far greater losses as a result of the war, including people's lives (both jewish and non-jewish, including innocent Germans as well). Thousands of innocent German families lost entire properties that had been in their family, in many cases, for hundreds of years (not 5 or 6 years). Get some prespective and spend your time doing documentaries about them.
What is the madonna and child statue that was sold at auction bought by a Jewish art dealer and did they resell it for a handsome profit shortly there after?
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The search should really start in the American Art Galleries....
39:20 In the determination of the true providence of these objects, why does the quest start and stop within the specified period and not with the original creation of the object? 40:11 Did the family fulfill her wishes regarding the conversion of the private home for the purpose of housing child refuges from around the world?
I would be interested in the answers, especially to your second question. It seemed quite fitting that the place would house refugee children. I hope he followed through.
Interesting. Maybe all you "Experts" want to look at the art objects stolen from Germany after WWI, plundered by the Allies, bought on the cheap by these "collectors" in the 1920's , most of it still outside of Germany, with NO compensation given. Every coin has two sides. ....But then the victor writes history.
And again whining from the thives and murderers. I would say that all German museum should have been emptied and the collections given to the survivors of the families whose art was stolen.
@@patriciabrenner9216 Yes of course...there are always the eternal victims. Those who lied and cheated ad infinitum and then claimed to be the victim. It always paid to be one. Your non-sense doesn't fool anyone.
Believe me the plaque explaining the theft and original owners and the circumstances under which they lost the pieces is less about doing what is just and acknowledging the suffering of the looted victims and more about filling the gap in the provenance and making the art saleable again on the open market. My worry is how many fakes are being accepted in this restitution program and giving valid provenance to excellent fakes. Now that there are few if any alive who validated these pieces pre 1933, it's a thing to worry about. One has to rely on photographs and if available well written and detailed annotations on the pieces. These are helpful but still worrysome since it doesn't quite fill the gap in the legal chain of custody. For instance there are still rumors that the spear of destiny returned to Austria isn't the real one but I think a carbon dating of the 1st century Roman nail encased in it safely refutes that rumor. I don't think the nazis were so good at making fakes that they tracked down a 1st century nail verifiable used in a crucifixion to make their fake. That would make the fake nearly as costly as the original
They belong to England by right of conquest, yes this exists and is recognized internationally even if it was wrong people were taking from other since the beginning of time
I agree that any stolen art ought to be returned if a rightful heir can be found. However, before anything should be "returned" to any potential heirs, it should be first checked if the art was sold for a reasonable price. Then, price should be compared to the price at which the art was originally purchased by the Jewish owners. They're often finding that the price at which the art was sold was at the market price at the time and are even finding out that in many cases, much of the art acquired by Jewish art dealers were at basement level prices, even lower than the price they sold it for, as a result of desperate people during the great depression. Two wrongs don't make a right. And, in every case, even though the art is being portrayed and some kind of a long-time Jewish family heirloom, in reality, most of it was only owned for a brief period (often just a few years), and in many cases had been acquired from original owners who had possessed it for a very long time, often hundreds of years, in some cases. The Jewish heir's emotional "attachment" to the restituted art is clear in that in virtually every case, it's immediately sold it to the highest bidder. In most cases, in my opinion, the art's rightful owner ought to be the native people and displayed in native museums.
What a mess, so someone paid out a lot of money for a piece of art and then to find out it was stolen. So does that mean they don't own it even thou they put money out for it. The money is gone into the pockets of those that stole the art. So now you have two owners, the family that owned the art, and the person that bought the art. How can any of it be unraveled? Non of it can be far for anyone.
Since it was common knowledge in the art world since WWII, museums and their curators should have been held to a moral and ethical responsibility to research the provenance of the items they are acquiring or it have been acknowledged that unless proven otherwise, there was a risk that it was originally Jewish owned and stolen. They should check the registry of works and pieces that are lost and deemed to have been stolen by nazis. It is the buyers' responsibility to look into or consider the fact that what they are purchasing might be illegal. You don't accidentally or knowingly purchase a stolen car and expect to be reimbursed by the police or government if you come to find out it's a stolen vehicle or they tell you. When it comes to restitution in relation to property in Germany, which I believe has now ended, at least in certain areas, it was quite different. Plus, modern owners are compensated by the government, or the original owners are compensated (depending on the place and what the decision is). There were more than 800,000 restitution case files housed at the Berlin State Archive. I am unsure if they are only for one's within Germany or not. I know it is unlikely that my family whose business was seized, in modern-day Poland, will see any sort of compensation any time soon and it has already been decades of attempts. To me it appears that the Germans post war, were better organized at handling the return of seized library books than things pertaining to direct victims of their own persecution www.bergungsstelle.de/ For how much victims lost, not to mention how much they contirbuted economically due to stolen goods and property and slave labor, it really is pennies. This list is now over and outdated but an interesting read nonetheless. It also took decades before many countries made any effort on this front: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/holocaust-compensation-and-restitution-by-country
I agree. It is rare to get art with fool-proof provenance. A lot of us who have bought art and antiques in good faith may actually inadvertently owning something that was stolen. That is a problem.
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The German Jews had contributed so much to German culture and science. What a shame
And, making restitution to very distant "inheritors" should be far less of a priority than the thousands of ignored Germans (and other citizens from other nations) who have a far greater loss and justification for restitution.
It’s good the family keep the fight for justice sadly it might take even Moore time for the family to get what belonged to them iam sure 90% of it it is still out there hiding in privet collections no doubt,
The government at minimum should reimburse current owners at least the current value of the money paid for objects plus insurance over the ownership, the government deals with trillions any ways. An object flowed through the government or dealer, maybe through several dealers to the current owner, the last person holding the object should not be responsible for an initial immoral confiscation followed by several transactions.
Or destroyed, a lot of stuff got obliterated when Germany fell and was either destroyed in the fighting, metered down in gold or silver, or got buried in hiding spot and left to the elements after the person who hid it died.
Give me a break. The Saulmann's are being portrayed as though their home and art had been multi generational family heirlooms. Both the home and the art were possessed by them for a relatively very brief period. By contrast, as a result of the war, there are thousands of equally innocent dispossessed German families, many of whom owned properties and castles for hundreds of years. In many cases, even the families themselves were wiped out. Where are their documentaries?
Looted is bad but not even wondering about the looters race but the loot itself. Just like I do not like it when USA or any other country has Egyptian or African art and refuse to hand it back in the same regard to christian art or religious christian artifacts should not be a jewish heirloom to keep. Unless that artifact was indeed created for a ancient jewish blood line then they must return it back. But if it is like a 200 year old art painting that has been in the jewish families history and it is in pristine condition and it is not a religious painting then I should see no problem with them keeping it for the next 200 years as it shows they truly love art. I just wonder who really has in their possession THE ARK OF THE COVENANT.
Great video! Wasn't impressed with the presenter who intimated that the museum that bought the '3 Angels' piece from the heirs for a price that they were OK with, having done something wrong. The heirs accepted the money...Done!! What did the museum do wrong? Get a Grip Lady!!!
100% agreed.I was thinking the same thing.The museum didn't force them to buy it.The heirs agreed to the fair price and thus the deal was done fair & square.
To me what she meant is that there is a certain degree of unfairness when it comes to that. People will me emotionally caught in the middle of taking the money or following their emotions and those of their ancestors. If the nazis hadn't taken it they wouldn't be put in that situation and it would have been up to the original family members who owned it to decide whether to keep it in the family or sell and considering the fact that these families were art collectors, it is unlikely that they would have sold.
Artworks were also stolen by French officials and French Army during the Napoleanic period. Some were later returned, many were not, and some were destroyed in transit or melted down to obtain precious metals.
Thank you so much for sharing with me the wealth of events shared in this documentary, which echoes an infamous fragment of the Hitler's Nazi horrendous regimen. It must have been a painful odyssey it is to recollect such memories and to recount them. The crimes and cruelties committed against my sons and daughters, my fathers and mothers, my brothers and sisters hurt me deeply, regardless their ethnicity and nationality. In Isaiah 2: 4, Jehovah God, the Creator and Source of life, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, promises: "He will be judge among the nations and will settle matters in relation to many peoples. They will turn their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. The nations will no longer raise their swords against each other and learn no more to wage war." My immediate neighbors are Jews and I am a Jehovah's Witness. Their hearts are superior than pure gold by far. They are extremely kind. The gentleman takes care of my trash can every Wednesday without my asking him to do so. They are lovely human beings, and they are not in need of the smallest improvement.
Looted art should be found and returned where possible, punishment and before all lessons must be learned. as for the asset could they be given to museums or help fund people in need in the actuality? I believe the question, to whom should it go must be asked as well.
It seems biased to discuss the huge increase in his sales in 1936 without discussing the obvious huge decline in his sales in later years for the very same reason that he had lost most of his wealthy clients
Hey DWyou guys should make a doc about the Nazi gold reserves and its whereabouts. How did they got them and how it was stolen by the Germans, the Russians, the Americans, the British and the Swiss
@Al Smith So you think all germans are responsible for what happened even today? Evil people have carried out endless atrocities through history and going by your logic then most likely we all are responsible for past deeds just by being part of any country today because it would be rare to find one that hasn't commited horrific acts. That would include we Americans who continue to this day do things we should all be ashamed of and any who stand by and allow evil to continue.
Money goes to money, start with that old money in Europe??( Private collections??) That's a close circle??? Top 1% ( crooks ) think about it people?? It's out their, some one knows??? The dirt always comes out???? Time will tell?? The one's who stole it families might be wealthy and may have gained from that???? Hope it's found!!! (No honor among crooks, and now comes the sharks???? ( lawyer's!!)
forced to sell undervalue, the art dealer made a profit off the sale without them having transparency into his ties to the auction house, straight after the sale he flipped it to nazis who paid a far higher price despite the family being forced to sell and hoping to make the 140k reichsmarks needed to flee the country, the same nazis being the ones who put the 'original' owners into a concentration camp and helped architect the entire system of oppression (profiting off of their labour, suffering, and more seized belongings and residences in France), the art then appreciated many times over since 1938.
I'm sorry to say I would have had more respect for the heirs of the saulmanns If they hadn't sold the items but kept them in the family. But it's there choice And there relations .don't give up ever .
Apparently the makers of this show have never been to an auction because the more people that bid on something the more money you get for it so if he hadn’t bid on these things and bought them at auction they would’ve sold for less money. you’d have to be a moron not to understand that but they don’t want to acknowledge this. It would be unusual if he hadn’t bid on some other items and not been successful and therefore raise the price for whoever was successful but to mention that would violate the biased viewpoint of this video production. Ironically, Barney Osher knows all about illegal and unscrupulous auction activities.
They need to stop stealing land and displacing innocent people, which goes against international law and is far from what the post-war allocations of Israel were to be, but otherwise no. In a few hundred years when secularism, quality of life, and education improve and increase my hope is that they can coexist but until then it is unlikely. I am against land for Jewish people that is free and protected but I am against extremeist Zionist ideology that creates division and fuels religious wars.
So they made so much profit off their cotton mill employees they could afford this lavish lifestyle? Can hardly see more than two employees in the cotton mill photo they chose to show. Let’s see the other photos and see the working conditions and worker ages
Based on that complete bulll of “ oh we didn’t know we accidentally had your 14 th century sculpture “ I ain’t buyin it!!!!!! And you know what that makes me skeptical if German actually learned their lesson….. 0%trust
How come that the jews had so many pieces of expensive artifacts? How come that they had the money to collect art worth millions? Try to answer these question and then start wondering why the nazis confiscated it and put it in museums to be available to the people!
Perhaps before you launch another veiled, anti-semitic rant, you might take a course on english syntax and grammar, thereby reducing the immediate impression that you are indeed somewhat illiterate. This would certainly establish you in neonazi circles.
Party it steams from usury in Christianity which forbids lending money at interest to fellow Christiansand, therefore, they established banking system with the Jewish people to enable them ( the Christians) to borrow and lend money. Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.
That artwork scanner is something else, very cool looking
It was surprising to me how interesting I found the photos from inside people's homes. It's such a relatable moment in time, but also equally haunting because we know the story behind the pictures. Art is a very personal thing, and one can imagine the type of person these works belong to, as well. If I was the heir to works discovered in some museum somewhere, I'd never sell them, I'd want them back yesterday.
@@nomine4027 Curious, now that pundits and media-matric persons are being interviewed or pod / broadcasting from their homes , do you check out what’s behind them and their general environment - other than their latest book on the bookshelf behind them perpendicular to all other books?
Although I totally empathise with the families plight, I look at the image of the Madonna and wonder. Although it may have come to them through a “reputable” art dealer. Who ripped it out of its niche in a church or castle in the first place? Was it originally the spoils of some one else’s war or stolen or obtained illegally. When we see “reputable” houses like Christie’s or Sotheby’s trading in plundered works, one can only wonder.
This was different.
@@veramae4098 How?
not all claims of looted are legitimate
Poignant and insightful piece. I was particularly touched by the Saulman estate heir's desire to have the large family home be used as a home for refugee children. It looks like it could be the perfect calming and safe space for kids, especially with the gentle horses. I hope that dream was realized.
Great content DW! Great work, researchers from Germany. An example on how to face dark times of political history. Greetings from brazil, and resisting fascism.
Maconheiro safado!
Ele nao
Another needed dose of information from the great DW... thanks again....
Funny how europian fight for the return of their looted arts but thier museums are full of looted art and artifacts from all over the world.
False.
I mean. You are talking about paintings that were bought, then stolen from families.
There are definitely items in European museums that were taken from countries in a way that wouldn't be done today. But it was not looting.
And also. The Jews' art was taken by Nazi officials. The museums did not steal from them
@@patriciabrenner9216 most of the arts in European museum were stolen from Africa
Yes, and it is interesting how provenance goes back just to the jewish families but no further back. As it was said in this documentary, provenance wasn't that people were interested in those days. But that also means that jewish owners were not interested where their new painting came from. They paid a dealer. (And as any buyer they wanted to have it cheap). But, Nazis payed also (not in most of the cases). I wonder if someone would go and find out about provenance further back in history.
@@patriciabrenner9216 ? its literally the truth...dw even made a documentary about just some of the looted african art that Europe STILL refuses to give back
I'd be looking in Switzerland and among small islands around Italy.
Vatican also. They smuggled Nazis through Rat lines to South America, USA, Canada, Australia... AndVatican suported Fascism. So... that would be good place to rummage. 👌
Sad to think some of the best art is still missing
probably quite a number of families hiding it away selfishly because they don't want it taken from them and know the backstory :(
@@MsBhappy this of course is true and showes how so-called ordinary Germans were acccomplices of the Nazis.
@@patriciabrenner9216 No it doesnt both the usa and russia most likely stole them.
Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Belgium look there
And Germany.
@@patriciabrenner9216 think they got most of that already, the Allie’s took a lot (that was originally stolen and also a lot that wasn’t, damn Commies) then in the last few decades a lot of it was turned over. Maybe some left but that is usually stuff the current owners didn’t even know what it was since they bought it after the war ended.
And museums here in the USA.
Great documentary, and fantastic narration + translation.
You think? I find the narration monologuing and irritating. Putting me off DW.
Great documentary. Thank you DW
Such a sad story. Art isn't just a possession. It's something people truly cherish. This story was particularly sad because it wasn't just thier collected art but , everything they worked for , owned and knew.
Very interesting reportage. With digitalization, database, and the network it will be easier to discover and return looted art. However, as the report says, It can't be the museum that makes the decisions to keep or to return a looted artwork but only the rightful owner.
A lot were burned.
Maria Farmer, the woman that reported Leslie Wexner, Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, Ivana Trump, The Rothschild Family, and such to the FBI in the 90s, also talked about how Robert Maxwell took anything he wanted from British Museums. Robert was the father of Ghislaine Maxwell, and I believe known for embezzling pension funds. He was also most likely a spy.
When I was younger I never believed the rumors about the Mona Lisa being a fake or the stuff about The Rothschild Family. Now I believe: the Mona Lisa has a good chance of being fake and I don't know where the real one is; and The Rothschild Family is pure evil, as well as the first citizens of Terra Mar.
Terra Mar was a NGO created by Ghislaine Maxwell. It was/is(?) a collection of people citizens to control the oceans and do as they will.
So this is the history to the movie/ book Monuments men. Found it very interesting. Thanks for sharing this.
The documentary is fascinating and very well made. The voice over the German is disappointing, I like hearing the people's voice and language it adds to the interview personality. Subtitles are just fine. Thank you for making this.
Thanks for watching and for the feedback!
Not only jewish collections were looted, polish too.
And Russians...
They wanted to destroy slavs and ortodox faith
Art dealers buy stuff at auction and almost immediately resell it to museums for huge profits happens all the time because museums then go to their big donors and ask for donations for acquiring a specific piece. They can’t do that before the auctions because there isn’t enough advance notice and they don’t know how much money it’s going to cost at an auction
Moral of the story?
You can replace objects.
You can't replace the lives of the people the Nazi's put to death.
Or all those who fought that war to help bring about peace.
Im sure they got " Good deals" when "buying" the art
Great Docu. Agree that stolen art must be repatriated and/or handed over to the rightful owners/heirs and be kept in a good facility, like a Museum to be preserved. Destruction and eradication of cultural arts, literature etc is indeed a form of cultural genocide. This not only reminds me about the horror committed by colonialism and Nazi Germany, but also the Pogrom committed against the Palestinians where their cultural arts/literature was largely destroyed by Israely regimes, with the same aim , to get rid of the existence of the history of a people.
I can’t see how anyone could possibly own a piece of this tragic art snd live with themselves. As for the nazis who took it home with them, surely the family must know that they have something in their possession that they probably never could have afforded. Where are people’s conscience. That poor, poor woman. What she must have endured. May she Rest In Peace 🙏🙏🙏🙏🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Greed and covetous are powerful forces.
@@4OHz Agreed. The Bible tells us not to put our treasures on this earth where thieves can break in and steal.
The current owners could just send the art to the British Museum since it is already full of looted items.
I want to know how art that was paid for no matter what the price had been can be claimed by the family that sold it saying it was looted. Taking advantage of people who need money and paying peanuts for the items isn't looting. Just because it was wrong to take advantage of people doesn't make it illegal. The art that was actually stolen is a different story those need to be returned no matter what
A contract made under duress is invalid and therefore were legal transactions
Was looking for a comment that touched on this. Yes I sort of feel similar - In this specific case the artwork collection was sold to an art dealer, not "looted" or stolen. However, like you mentioned, a lot of antiquities and cultural pieces were stolen, destroyed, etc and I'm glad there's people working on tracking those things down.
They sold the art under duress, ie they could not leave the country due to the demands of a criminal regime that they should pay a horrendous tax that forced them to sell the work to raise the money. It was certainly not an arms' length sale.
@@mjay4700 You've obviously missed the key legal point, which is that they were forced to sell due to the threats to their lives posed by a criminal regime. They didn't sell simply because they were in financial distress.
Exactly. The US n many other colonials looted their colonies with zero money. Here its not loot. Its mass selling which is still done today when a family member dies.
I believe it’s Marvelous if owners from the Nazi Era get their belongings back !
If you want to find the Natzi stolen art it's in Argentina and swisserland banks hidden there during the end of the war I found out from a Natzi ss soldier in he 70s he told me and showed me pictures
Great doco, Does anyone know what type of scanner they are using to scan the photos?
42mins. and 26sec. of forgotten piece of history
Great 👍 documentary!!!
Well if you find my grandfather’s antique clock let me know it was looted by Nazi’s in western Poland. Definitely let me know. My mother paid the Nazi flight tax so I suppose she would have been entitled to repatriation of the antique clock
Yes, and some of it is showing up here in the Goodwill and other various thrift stores because we have had a large German population and some of them are passing now.
I wonder what the Free Ports in Europe are holding.
They make such a big deal about the "legacy" of the Saulmann's left, first, their house, but they lived there for only, what, 5 or 6 years? That's not a legacy. That's a rental. The current and former home owners have proably lived there for decades but who cares? Then, the art that they possessed for just a few years. It was wrong to have been pressured to sell their art (let alone the holocaust) but let's not exaggerate any sort of legacy. The art itself was likely passed around, bought and resold over and over, with some winners, and some losers. There were far greater losses as a result of the war, including people's lives (both jewish and non-jewish, including innocent Germans as well). Thousands of innocent German families lost entire properties that had been in their family, in many cases, for hundreds of years (not 5 or 6 years). Get some prespective and spend your time doing documentaries about them.
What is the madonna and child statue that was sold at auction bought by a Jewish art dealer and did they resell it for a handsome profit shortly there after?
The search should really start in the American Art Galleries....
39:20 In the determination of the true providence of these objects, why does the quest start and stop within the specified period and not with the original creation of the object?
40:11 Did the family fulfill her wishes regarding the conversion of the private home for the purpose of housing child refuges from around the world?
I would be interested in the answers, especially to your second question. It seemed quite fitting that the place would house refugee children. I hope he followed through.
Praise the Old Gods and the New God that I get to see art from afar and take inspiration from it.
except for other nazis, some of whom are commenting below,
nobody ever accused the nazis of being smart...
Interesting. Maybe all you "Experts" want to look at the art objects stolen from Germany after WWI, plundered by the Allies, bought on the cheap by these "collectors" in the 1920's , most of it still outside of Germany, with NO compensation given. Every coin has two sides.
....But then the victor writes history.
Germany started both wars
@@uioplkhj germany didn’t start ww1.
@@sinassappelmanderijn8299 It did. By siding with Austria.
And again whining from the thives and murderers. I would say that all German museum should have been emptied and the collections given to the survivors of the families whose art was stolen.
@@patriciabrenner9216 Yes of course...there are always the eternal victims. Those who lied and cheated ad infinitum and then claimed to be the victim. It always paid to be one. Your non-sense doesn't fool anyone.
Here's looking at you, British Museum.
All your former colonies are waiting
Believe me the plaque explaining the theft and original owners and the circumstances under which they lost the pieces is less about doing what is just and acknowledging the suffering of the looted victims and more about filling the gap in the provenance and making the art saleable again on the open market.
My worry is how many fakes are being accepted in this restitution program and giving valid provenance to excellent fakes. Now that there are few if any alive who validated these pieces pre 1933, it's a thing to worry about. One has to rely on photographs and if available well written and detailed annotations on the pieces. These are helpful but still worrysome since it doesn't quite fill the gap in the legal chain of custody.
For instance there are still rumors that the spear of destiny returned to Austria isn't the real one but I think a carbon dating of the 1st century Roman nail encased in it safely refutes that rumor. I don't think the nazis were so good at making fakes that they tracked down a 1st century nail verifiable used in a crucifixion to make their fake. That would make the fake nearly as costly as the original
What about looted artifacts of India by British filling up the British Museum
What about it? It's also criminal
They belong to England by right of conquest, yes this exists and is recognized internationally even if it was wrong people were taking from other since the beginning of time
@@felixxdenolo6793if you live in the medieval times sure
Thank you for it all as well 😂
@@sarahhardcastle2433 Kohinoor originated in Andhra pradesh in India.
Much more art will be recovered as people die, and poor heirs attempt to sell it.
Time is a great leveler... ⏳
I agree that any stolen art ought to be returned if a rightful heir can be found. However, before anything should be "returned" to any potential heirs, it should be first checked if the art was sold for a reasonable price. Then, price should be compared to the price at which the art was originally purchased by the Jewish owners. They're often finding that the price at which the art was sold was at the market price at the time and are even finding out that in many cases, much of the art acquired by Jewish art dealers were at basement level prices, even lower than the price they sold it for, as a result of desperate people during the great depression. Two wrongs don't make a right.
And, in every case, even though the art is being portrayed and some kind of a long-time Jewish family heirloom, in reality, most of it was only owned for a brief period (often just a few years), and in many cases had been acquired from original owners who had possessed it for a very long time, often hundreds of years, in some cases. The Jewish heir's emotional "attachment" to the restituted art is clear in that in virtually every case, it's immediately sold it to the highest bidder. In most cases, in my opinion, the art's rightful owner ought to be the native people and displayed in native museums.
No neonazis in the comments? Huh. Today is a good day.
Sadly there are.
Yup yup, they are still doing it...here in Camarillo
Thank you for 😘🇨🇦
What a mess, so someone paid out a lot of money for a piece of art and then to find out it was stolen. So does that mean they don't own it even thou they put money out for it. The money is gone into the pockets of those that stole the art. So now you have two owners, the family that owned the art, and the person that bought the art. How can any of it be unraveled? Non of it can be far for anyone.
Pat Stokes
No. There is only one owner. The person the item was stolen from.
Since it was common knowledge in the art world since WWII, museums and their curators should have been held to a moral and ethical responsibility to research the provenance of the items they are acquiring or it have been acknowledged that unless proven otherwise, there was a risk that it was originally Jewish owned and stolen. They should check the registry of works and pieces that are lost and deemed to have been stolen by nazis. It is the buyers' responsibility to look into or consider the fact that what they are purchasing might be illegal. You don't accidentally or knowingly purchase a stolen car and expect to be reimbursed by the police or government if you come to find out it's a stolen vehicle or they tell you.
When it comes to restitution in relation to property in Germany, which I believe has now ended, at least in certain areas, it was quite different. Plus, modern owners are compensated by the government, or the original owners are compensated (depending on the place and what the decision is). There were more than 800,000 restitution case files housed at the Berlin State Archive. I am unsure if they are only for one's within Germany or not. I know it is unlikely that my family whose business was seized, in modern-day Poland, will see any sort of compensation any time soon and it has already been decades of attempts.
To me it appears that the Germans post war, were better organized at handling the return of seized library books than things pertaining to direct victims of their own persecution www.bergungsstelle.de/
For how much victims lost, not to mention how much they contirbuted economically due to stolen goods and property and slave labor, it really is pennies. This list is now over and outdated but an interesting read nonetheless. It also took decades before many countries made any effort on this front: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/holocaust-compensation-and-restitution-by-country
I agree. It is rare to get art with fool-proof provenance. A lot of us who have bought art and antiques in good faith may actually inadvertently owning something that was stolen. That is a problem.
The German Jews had contributed so much to German culture and science. What a shame
Judea Declares War on Germany!
Newspaper headline date 3-24-1933.
What a shame.
So heartbreaking as always. DW not least something must be done on behalf of dark side of Loot art whole world.
And, making restitution to very distant "inheritors" should be far less of a priority than the thousands of ignored Germans (and other citizens from other nations) who have a far greater loss and justification for restitution.
They were all ILLEGALLY traded!
27:30 "regrettably, somewhat forgotten". how convenient.
It’s good the family keep the fight for justice sadly it might take even Moore time for the family to get what belonged to them iam sure 90% of it it is still out there hiding in privet collections no doubt,
The government at minimum should reimburse current owners at least the current value of the money paid for objects plus insurance over the ownership, the government deals with trillions any ways. An object flowed through the government or dealer, maybe through several dealers to the current owner, the last person holding the object should not be responsible for an initial immoral confiscation followed by several transactions.
Or destroyed, a lot of stuff got obliterated when Germany fell and was either destroyed in the fighting, metered down in gold or silver, or got buried in hiding spot and left to the elements after the person who hid it died.
Give me a break. The Saulmann's are being portrayed as though their home and art had been multi generational family heirlooms. Both the home and the art were possessed by them for a relatively very brief period. By contrast, as a result of the war, there are thousands of equally innocent dispossessed German families, many of whom owned properties and castles for hundreds of years. In many cases, even the families themselves were wiped out. Where are their documentaries?
I can't believe one item can be sold twice. When Agata fled Germany she sold her valuables, then after war she wanted them back.
She was forced to sell it
es waren nicht IMMER nur die Juden. Es gab auch andere... Warum wird DAS nie erwähnt... Wenn ich da sowas höre, habe ich genug....
The families and heirs will never get restitution from the Establishment, who have merely re-stolen the artefacts already in their possession.
The female translator for professor Heike Hopp sounds like voice from Half life 1 tram ride intro scene.
he he yes
So Nazis took 8500 pieces of art from 10 jewish families. Or at least 100. Still that shows huge divide between German n Jewish fortunes.
Looted is bad but not even wondering about the looters race but the loot itself.
Just like I do not like it when USA or any other country has Egyptian or African art and refuse to hand it back in the same regard to
christian art or religious christian artifacts should not be a jewish heirloom to keep. Unless that artifact was indeed created for a ancient jewish blood line then they must return it back.
But if it is like a 200 year old art painting that has been in the jewish families history and it is in pristine condition and it is not a religious painting then
I should see no problem with them keeping it for the next 200 years as it shows they truly love art.
I just wonder who really has in their possession THE ARK OF THE COVENANT.
Great video! Wasn't impressed with the presenter who intimated that the museum that bought the '3 Angels' piece from the heirs for a price that they were OK with, having done something wrong. The heirs accepted the money...Done!!
What did the museum do wrong?
Get a Grip Lady!!!
100% agreed.I was thinking the same thing.The museum didn't force them to buy it.The heirs agreed to the fair price and thus the deal was done fair & square.
To me what she meant is that there is a certain degree of unfairness when it comes to that. People will me emotionally caught in the middle of taking the money or following their emotions and those of their ancestors. If the nazis hadn't taken it they wouldn't be put in that situation and it would have been up to the original family members who owned it to decide whether to keep it in the family or sell and considering the fact that these families were art collectors, it is unlikely that they would have sold.
Artworks were also stolen by French officials and French Army during the Napoleanic period. Some were later returned, many were not, and some were destroyed in transit or melted down to obtain precious metals.
Thank you so much for sharing with me the wealth of events shared in this documentary, which echoes an infamous fragment of the Hitler's Nazi horrendous regimen.
It must have been a painful odyssey it is to recollect such memories and to recount them.
The crimes and cruelties committed against my sons and daughters, my fathers and mothers, my brothers and sisters hurt me deeply, regardless their ethnicity and nationality.
In Isaiah 2: 4, Jehovah God, the Creator and Source of life, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, promises:
"He will be judge among the nations and will settle matters in relation to many peoples. They will turn their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. The nations will no longer raise their swords against each other and learn no more to wage war."
My immediate neighbors are Jews and I am a Jehovah's Witness.
Their hearts are superior than pure gold by far. They are extremely kind.
The gentleman takes care of my trash can every Wednesday without my asking him to do so. They are lovely human beings, and they are not in need of the smallest improvement.
Beautifully said. Thank you for commenting.
Looted art should be found and returned where possible, punishment and before all lessons must be learned. as for the asset could they be given to museums or help fund people in need in the actuality? I believe the question, to whom should it go must be asked as well.
They should be given to the heirs of the owners.
@@patriciabrenner9216 only if they need it... the idea of heirs and inheriting is quite antiquated for this sometimes
@@olisd4512 FOR THIEVES YOU MEAN.
It seems biased to discuss the huge increase in his sales in 1936 without discussing the obvious huge decline in his sales in later years for the very same reason that he had lost most of his wealthy clients
Hey DWyou guys should make a doc about the Nazi gold reserves and its whereabouts. How did they got them and how it was stolen by the Germans, the Russians, the Americans, the British and the Swiss
I believe they have at least one documentary about the gold, but I don't know if it covers everything you mentioned.
34:00 3:31 I have one question. Why did they collect Christian art ?
Any collective art is an investment, regardless of religious affiliation.
There was no Nazi nation. They had their own nationality - German. There was no Nazi language. They had their own language - German.
@Al Smith So you think all germans are responsible for what happened even today? Evil people have carried out endless atrocities through history and going by your logic then most likely we all are responsible for past deeds just by being part of any country today because it would be rare to find one that hasn't commited horrific acts. That would include we Americans who continue to this day do things we should all be ashamed of and any who stand by and allow evil to continue.
Any artists of art collectors here? 🖌 🎨 🖼
Metal artist. Painter.
Both ladies (Meike Hopp and Andrea Bambi) have strikingly beautiful eyes... That goes well with the theme of the documentary.
Fantastich!
Sounds similar to what occured to US'
Money goes to money, start with that old money in Europe??( Private collections??) That's a close circle??? Top 1% ( crooks ) think about it people?? It's out their, some one knows??? The dirt always comes out???? Time will tell?? The one's who stole it families might be wealthy and may have gained from that???? Hope it's found!!! (No honor among crooks, and now comes the sharks???? ( lawyer's!!)
DON'T COLLECT TREASURES ON EARTH BUT INSTEAD LOOK TO THE HEAVENS!
GOD DOES NOT WANT YOU TO SMOKE
Museums are just as guilty..return the art…now.
so sad
I believe the German government will do the right thing , with vigor. The German's are thorough. ✊☘️
Wait If they sold the artwork why is the lawyer trying to get it back?
forced to sell undervalue, the art dealer made a profit off the sale without them having transparency into his ties to the auction house, straight after the sale he flipped it to nazis who paid a far higher price despite the family being forced to sell and hoping to make the 140k reichsmarks needed to flee the country, the same nazis being the ones who put the 'original' owners into a concentration camp and helped architect the entire system of oppression (profiting off of their labour, suffering, and more seized belongings and residences in France), the art then appreciated many times over since 1938.
Is Right Germany Nazi same?
Who knew that Jewish people thought it was a sin to make a profit off of someone else’s misfortune. Not my experience
I'm sorry to say I would have had more respect for the heirs of the saulmanns
If they hadn't sold the items but kept them in the family. But it's there choice
And there relations .don't give up ever .
What a ridiculous, ignorant comment.
Same issue with African and Latin American art…stolen!!
Apparently the makers of this show have never been to an auction because the more people that bid on something the more money you get for it so if he hadn’t bid on these things and bought them at auction they would’ve sold for less money. you’d have to be a moron not to understand that but they don’t want to acknowledge this. It would be unusual if he hadn’t bid on some other items and not been successful and therefore raise the price for whoever was successful but to mention that would violate the biased viewpoint of this video production. Ironically, Barney Osher knows all about illegal and unscrupulous auction activities.
18:27 this guy totally looks like Herman goering, carbon copy
🔦🔦🔦🔦🔦
Is the return of the looted art back to the Jewish owners not comparable to the Palestine campaign for the right of return .
no, there is no connection. You sound like you are guilty of something.
@@coffeegirl1 I see a unicorn
Should Israel have to return land stolen from Palestinians?
No!
They need to stop stealing land and displacing innocent people, which goes against international law and is far from what the post-war allocations of Israel were to be, but otherwise no. In a few hundred years when secularism, quality of life, and education improve and increase my hope is that they can coexist but until then it is unlikely. I am against land for Jewish people that is free and protected but I am against extremeist Zionist ideology that creates division and fuels religious wars.
She's gorgeous!
So they made so much profit off their cotton mill employees they could afford this lavish lifestyle? Can hardly see more than two employees in the cotton mill photo they chose to show. Let’s see the other photos and see the working conditions and worker ages
funny enought my comment giving little bit of truth has been deleted LOL looks like history is being edited if asking too many questions !!
What was your comment about?
I'm expecting my comment to be deleted too.
Baron Harkonnen and we all continue like sheep to write our Pearl comments on a platform that erases them.
Surely some neonazi bullshit. Good riddance.
Theft of big thieves
Based on that complete bulll of “ oh we didn’t know we accidentally had your 14 th century sculpture “ I ain’t buyin it!!!!!! And you know what that makes me skeptical if German actually learned their lesson….. 0%trust
Guess what you will never find any of them.
Saulman good, call call better..
Saul
How come that the jews had so many pieces of expensive artifacts? How come that they had the money to collect art worth millions? Try to answer these question and then start wondering why the nazis confiscated it and put it in museums to be available to the people!
Perhaps before you launch another veiled, anti-semitic rant, you might take a course on english syntax and grammar, thereby reducing the immediate impression that you are indeed somewhat illiterate. This would certainly establish you in neonazi circles.
How did one small ethnic minority amass such wealth in the first place? Strange.
Party it steams from usury in Christianity which forbids lending money at interest to fellow Christiansand, therefore, they established banking system with the Jewish people to enable them ( the Christians) to borrow and lend money.
Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.
Do you really expect us to feel sorry for these extremely rich people who SOLD their property.
You really wasted your time here. You didn't hear a single thing they said.
Your last name is very fitting.
👍
🤙🏽