NT Wright & Douglas Murray • Identity, myth & miracles: How do we live in a post-Christian world?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Episode 3 | Season 3 of The Big Conversation
In this live conversation chaired by Justin Brierley, social commentator Douglas Murray engages theologian NT Wright on whether Christianity still makes best sense of the world in a post-Christian age, and how to address the growing meaning and identity crisis in the West.
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As an American and a Catholic, I resonated with much of this wonderful conversation. As Douglas referenced, there is a movement among younger Catholics to reclaim a staggering richness and depth of beauty that many of us feel robbed of, namely the Latin Mass and various practices that were, consciously by some, expelled from the Church in the 60's and thereafter. But beyond that, there is a hunger to have the institution itself boldly stand for the Truth that does not bow to the shallow whims and pernicious ideologies of the day.
As an aside, Matthew 11:12 was mentioned twice during this conversation, and it made me think of the novel by the American southern gothic and Catholic author Flannery O'Connor, who wrote a novel called 'The Violent Bear it Away', based on that very perplexing Gospel verse.
there is no greater enemy towards Catholicism than the pope imo
Yes. Stuck quite a nerve here too. I haven't quite gone full Tridentine Mass but I feel myself being pulled in that direction.
When I attended one of the few Tridentine Masses offered in my diocese, I expected to see a lot of elderly people. I was pleasantly surprised by how many young people with small children were there. After all, most of them have no memory of the pre-Vatican II era. I myself grew up in the 70's and the era of felt banners and Sr. Mary Pantsuit, when listening to "Godspell" and "Jesus Christ Superstar" in religion class took the place of actually teaching about the faith. No wonder many of us left the church as adults. Although I came back, I am still dismayed by progressive parishes - if all you have to do is subscribe to the latest fashionable political beliefs and "be nice" there is no reason to make it to church on Sunday morning.
This Pope is looking to be the one the Reformation pointed to
Matthew 11:16-19. See the "can't win coming or going" violence? Less perplexing now? Sure does sound familiar, yes? Do we understand why?
Ahhh! Just listening to N.T. Wright soothes the soul! He always brings it all right back to the nitty gritty of the reason we are Christians-Jesus!-and so articulately reveals why God’s story is true! I very much enjoyed Douglas’s honesty as he shared his questions as he navigates his journey! Great discussion!
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
Splendid conversation, run so smoothly and respectfully. I wish we have more of such intellectual honest people expressing honestly their point of view. JB did a good job moderating it proficiently and professionally.
I really enjoy most of NT wrights insights.
Thanks Tom, Douglas and Justin!
Great discussion. Thank you very much.
I was so excited for this and it did not disappoint!!❤️
Douglas Murray is referring to *Sohrab Ahmari* (among others), who converted from islam to atheism and finally catholic Christianity. He has an interview with Bishop Barron.
Your righteousness must be greater than the righteousness of the religious leaders
Its surely not so much about replacing religion ie supernatural belief, as if its somehow to be admired, but living a good rewarding life with the tools of critical thinking and rational enquiry.
20 minutes in and Douglas is hitting all the nails on the head. I remember reading the woman Anglican Bishop’s feminist critique of St. Paul of all people not too long ago. I also like how he intuitively knows that Religio is much more than doing soup kitchens etc. I see Tom has his work cut out for him.
Douglas Murray should speak with Jonathan Pageau!
Interesting insight that Mary Magdalene was the first person who witnessed in person the Risen Christ and thus became the first evangelist. (John 20:11-18).
The question of the origin of morality is a fascinatingly paradoxical question in the Christian tradition. On the one hand, historic theologians have posited (St. Thomas Aquinas, pinnacle among them) that God has imbued free will, reason and a sense of duty into the hearts of all his human creatures -- thus, attaching oneself to the Church is (while better) not absolutely necessary for the discovery of basic human morality and a general knowledge of God..
... The irony, is that that premise IS ITSELF an assumption of Christian theology (a particular view of God and how he relates to all humans) which is not a universal tenet of all religious systems. Thus Christianity is necessary for the idea that Christianity is unnecessary for morality.
Has anyone in all the enormously polite conversations asked Douglas why he no longer believes?
If I didn’t know any better, I’d say Jordan Peterson had struck quite the chord within Douglass….
Honestly, N.T. Wright was pretty annoying by incessantly interrupting the others, he clearly thinks he's a superbly interesting person but Douglas was much more thoughtful, original and interesting.
Ahh hello someone is clearing his throat constantly in the background. Do fix that for future shows.
equivalent book... The Tao Te Ching? Far more accessible, and doesn't project a human story onto the unknowable to comfort humans - storymakers. Turn the sun into the son by changing one letter
Love your enemy 🙌 trumps all other worldly notions
I use to trust everything Doug Murray said, and then I heard say he's believes in God!
Because he disagrees with you he is wrong about everything you once respected him for? Wow. How do you order your life to consist of just people who agree with you? This is the definition of cancel culture..."I beleive blank, and if you don't beleive blank, you are wrong and I don't want to hear a word you say." Wow. Thankfully, Tom and Douglas are not like this. Open dialogue, in the face of disagreement, is how society moves forward.
Is N.T. Wright Catholic?
Anglican.
Rich and poor, are we really all the same?
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
Prof. Wright..."the church should go back to its original gospels"? The Greek Orthodox church always did this. Nations like Romania were shaped by this during the 500 yrs. of Ottoman domination...
Douglas Murray could talk with a mute sloth about the plain oatmeal he ate for breakfast and it would probably still be more interesting than most other discussions.
Douglas Murray could talk to the 2 cats from next door about the price of walnuts at Christmas and it would be more interesting than most conversations I've had in my life.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
Unless oatmeal happened to be your reason for living, then well...
Just goes to show how much of murrays success lies in his performative meandering, rather than the depraved substance of his speech...
@Steve Quilley Yes depraved, his brand of cynicism is toxic and his apologism for the most hideous figures of the nativist right like Viktor Orban or Geert Wilders is embarrassing.
Douglas, an "uncomfortable agnostic", pointing out very accurately what the modern church should be doing, namely preaching the gospel and the truth of the Bible - and stop falling for the same shallow and false ideologies as so many others... Spot on!
And Justin is a wonderful moderator.
Justin
Indeed. Church is so afraid to be criticized standing with the truth
Justin is a remarkable moderator--a rare breed.
He always is. What a civilised young man
It won’t happen for two reasons:
1 church leaders are too busy banging little children.
2 reason number 1 stripe the church out of any positive authority.
Hey, the Catholic Church has a whole Sacrament devoted to forgiveness. Kind makes it hard to forget.
Certainly takes the spirit out of it
@@parkerj1776 Just like marriage takes the spirit out of matrimony I presume?
@@les_goddams4846 one could argue yes!
@@parkerj1776 Modernity in a nutshell.
@@les_goddams4846 To be fair to his point: very few actually participate in the sacrament; and it tends to be just the receiving end. Forgiving others? We Catholics are as bad as everyone else, in my experience. Which is precisely the point, I think. And a fair one.
Douglas Murray's complaint is a poignant one. WHY is Tom Wright an anomaly in the Church? Nevertheless, two intellectual giants. I love them both. I pray for them both. They are needed.
The ancient Greeks tried to shape members of a society to be worthy of leadership positions.
Now our leaders are trying to camouflage their sinister inadequacies by creating societies blind to their selfserving agendas.
“It is in vain, O men, that you seek within yourselves the cure of all your miseries. All your insight only leads you to the knowledge that it is not in yourselves that you will discover the true and the good. The philosophers promised them to you, and have not been able to keep their promise…"
-Blaise Pascal
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
I take great encouragement from the mere fact of this conversation having happened. A rich interaction, facilitated by a thoroughly capable interviewer, and not the usual debate over faith (Sam Harris destroys!) where two delivery systems for two incompatible worldviews talk past each other. Excellent stuff. The conversation on matters of meaning is maturing.
NT being one of my favorite theologians and Murray one of my most inspiring authors, I was downright giddy waiting for this discussion. Thank you!
why wont he have a dialogue with ehrman- too scared!
@@johnnysprocketz It's a bit funny how atheists believe Bart Ehrman to be Infallible or even close. Just like everyone else in a scholarly circle, his claims are as well heavily refuted with facts.
@@zoliozgamer7008 it isn't funny because no thinking person thinks anyone is infallible, that is why historians are fact based not fiction based, clearly your mind is still running on sheep mode, pathetically slow and glitchy.
For all the times I’ve heard either side is this argument, I’ve almost never heard both points articulated and discussed intelligently in the same room. Thank you for this!
As a follower of NT Wright I thought he missed the mark with his letter to Murray in the Spectator. He misunderstood the nature of Wokery but it seems that Tom is now aware of the antichristic beliefs within that philosophical system. I also thought that Tom was too quick to beat his breast about past failures with racism in the church. Douglass schooled him on that matter quite comprehensively. What kind of a Christian really thinks that the church had it hopelessly and utterly wrong for two thousand years only to have a bunch of violent Marxist/Frankfurt School thugs point out to us for the first time that racism was wrong??? And if the church had it wrong for its entire history, then how arrogant must we be to think that we've finally cracked the mystery of what true Christianity really looks like?
@Excuse me but I'm not sure what you mean. There are always improvements and ways of responding to events that can be done, but if you take as a starting point that the Church was essentially apostate until BLM came on the scene and educated us that racism was bad...then why be a Christian at all? Just join BLM
@Excuse me but what do we mean by ‘church’?
I ask because to say ‘the church had it wrong’ you need to be explicit about what you mean by church. Most of the ‘church’ did not own slaves and a great many were themselves slaves (both in 1st C and of course in the transatlantic slave trade).
The history of slavery and Christianity is more nuanced than we normally have time to explore in debates and comment threads
@@petethorne5094 I agree and would add that the "church" if we include christian abolitionism efforts through out history, then BLM is late to the party on the issue. Fredrick Douglass is one of my favorite Christian theologians. His voice carried the prophetic edge of Old Testament prophets like Isaiah and Amos as he winsomely and powerfully denounced the hypocrisy of American Christianity. The church has never be silent on the issue, but portions of the church ignored this voice. FD who was born a slave would remark often on the "Christ-less religiosity" of slave holders. In Douglass’ description of his cruel ‘slave handler’ Mr. Covey “His religion hindered him from breaking the Sabbath, but not from breaking my skin. He had more respect for the day than for the man for whom the day was mercifully given; for while he would cut and slash my body during the week,, he would not hesitate, on Sunday, to teach me the value of my soul, or the way of life and salvation by Jesus Christ”. Fedrick understood and preached white supremacy as incompatible with the God of the Bible. That is not a new message. Fighting injustice was par for the course of Christian living in Douglass' estimation. He writes, "I love the religion of our blessed Savior ...It is because I love this religion that I hate the slaveholding, the woman-whipping, the mind-darkening, the soul-destroying religion that exists in the southern states of America."
Geoff Jones well said
I really loved this conversation. What a privilege that we live in a time that it can be broadcast to the world. It reminds me of Matthew 10:27 : “What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops”.
Superb all three - thank you. Douglas's honestly is inspirational - needs to be heard... Tom's faith is inspirational - needs to be heard ...
I disagree on Tom W.'s faith which does not need to be sold at the expense of all personal devotion and mandatory obedience...
Justin: I'm just happy to be here, let me get out of the way.
Tom: We should show the truth about Jesus through love for all people made in God's image.
Douglas: I agree. And you if you divorce the truth about Jesus (which I don't personally believe) from that love, and substitute postmodern Marxist theories, you will destroy the church and the world.
Poor characterization of this discussion. Your comments reflect more of your apparent closed-minded perspective than an openness to seek truth. Your loss.
Are you a THEIST? 🤔
If so, what are the reasons for your BELIEF in God? 🤓
@@ReasonableFaith-Charlotte in your own words, define “TRUTH”. ☝️🤔☝️
@Still Waters, do you consider homosexuality sinful?
If so, why?
@Jesus Saves, who is my creator and for what REASON is homosexuality bad (despite good and bad being relative concepts)?
@113:00
Yes, music is inviting us to something, it is inviting us to worship.
That feeling,, that awe, that manifests in us, IS worship. We also experience it in those moments when we stand in awe of creation.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
Great programme. You had two great and articulate thinkers of our time. Thank you!
If only it were possible to give this two thumbs up. Excellent conversation and many thanks to everyone who made this happen.
Thumbs up for your comment, and thumbs up on the video... two thumbs up :)
I do tire of the constant use of "there's a sense in which". Thank you for mentioning the resurrection, the one discontinuity/disruptive event without which the emergence of Western culture can't be explained.
@Ian Callard,
There is a sense in which, you are correct.
Though some would dispute your conclusion.
Thank you, NT Wright- for speaking kind & bold about our God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit!
😂😂😂. What a deluded idiot you are..Yiu belive in a 'sky daddy' 😂😂😂😂
Both guests are so respectful of each other, and transparent and willing to be vulnerable. Very pleasant to the ears.
Unbelievable
the *royal* we...
Moving and frankly crushing conversation. The weight is heavy on the shoulders of Murray-it’s painful to listen to someone longing for the hope found in Jesus, but seemingly unable to be comforted. My hope and prayer is for him to encounter the risen Christ! “You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.”
Jeremiah 29:13ESV.
Agreed but we are all on the journey and arrive at different times.
I’m a converted Catholic from atheism and after three years I think I have a good hold on what is going on in the Church as a whole. The dos and donts. I feel finally I am on a firm enough foundation that I can begin seeking the right questions and answers.
Douglas is still seeking and is honest about what he is struggling with. Big props to him.
All in God's time and timing. The deeper the valley, the higher the mountain ;)
Excellent, excellent! So much respect for these two men. Such reasonable, knowledgeable, courteous interlocutors! Exemplary. 👏👏
Jesus Christ has to open people's understanding just like he did in the Bible and just like he did to me when I became a Christian He opened my understanding so that I could understand the Bible when before I was saved I couldn't understand the Bible at all but now I absolutely love God's Word ✝️🙏🏾
37:46 I think, in ower days there is a misunderstanding about forgiveness and putting things under the carpet.
This was a great and well thought-out subject. It’s truly helped solidify some of thoughts I had about our current society. The you’re wrong, we’re right with no reconciliation is just horrible, May Jesus save us all.
@Sylvana Baptista demeans women? Would you like to explain that if you don’t mind
@Sylvana Baptista Without the news of Women the accounts of the resurrection would not have happened. Certainly the Bible has been used to demean women but that does not take away from the truth of the Gospel. I’m sorry you feel that way but biblical womanhood in fact is one that is in equality with manhood just differences of course.
I still don’t think women should preach...
Seems to me that Mr Wright is the epitome of all that Mr Murray claimed was wrong with the "church"; gleefully misunderstanding most points, and Confidently misrepresenting others.
"Broken Signpost" - what a brilliant book title by Tom. It reminds me a little of John Lennox's 'beauty and barbed wire' metaphor too.
Douglas is a wonderful apologetic for Christianity. Such a genuine honest and delightful man. Mr Wright also is great to hear.
We have yet to get to loving our enemies in a very real, very practical sense. It is radical, it is revolutionary, and perhaps terrifyingly different. But clearly, it is Jesus's mandate...and if we really followed it, would lead to a great societal transformation in the direction of that which we yearn to find visible in the
world:. Love and peace.
Someone reminded me that loving your enemy doesn't mean you forget he still an enemy.
No but it does totally change what you know you need to add to the situation.
It doesn't mean you forget, but it means that your enemy no longer becomes your enemy. Check Ephesians 6. Jesus was all about reversal of roles. Paul the persecutor becomes the greatest purveyor of Christianity, poor fisherman have Apostolic authority and the Pharisees who know much don't recognize Jesus for who he is!
@@robertguidry2168 sort of how Germany and Japan became American friends.
Douglas seems to be seeking real Orthodox Chrisitianity not watered down Evangelical and Catholic religiosity.
Absolutely loved this episode. Wow! Both these guests are you awesome. It's great to have such open and respectful conversation.
I think Douglas is God's provision to challenge the church to be what it should be. I would like to encourage him to stay true to this.
I believe we can thank Darwininism for the current version of racisism not the church. Anthropologists/scientists/explorers saw "black" men as half (or less) human.
A very stimulating conversation. However, there was a failure to bring out that we were created to live for eternity. Jesus himself spoke eternal life. That is why it was necessary for Jesus to die on the cross and rise again. See John 3:14-15
Thats because we weren't just because some character in you favourite book of fairy tales says so doesn't make it so.
@@TheD4VR0S I feel like you are missing the point, and it makes me wonder why you are even watching this video. A bit strange. Even Murray thinks way deeper and more seriously than you even as he claims to be an atheistic type now, and I assume you're a fan of Murray. Just saying, 'the Bible is merely a book of fairy tales' doesn't actually help or prove much at all. That's largely why our entire society is so corrupt with wokeism, New Atheism, Marxism, post-modernism, and so forth. That's what this entire video is about in the first place.
@@TheClassicWorld I wasnt commenting on the video I was commenting on the lies of john rowland and his evidence for those lies is it says so in a work of fiction a book that has a talking donkey in it - like shrek
Yes!!! I’ve been pointing that out to my Kids’ Sunday School, as of late. Jesus, born of a human mother, defeated physical death & therefore, bringing us, His human brothers, to a chance, via salvation, of eternal life, too.
@@pamcollins2178 Or god could have just said "you know what i'm going to stop having people tortured for eternity"
Brilliant conversation, what fascinating and enlightening men! I thank God we still have people like these to testify to the truth! Thank you so much for the good work you do Unbelievable ❤️
I couldn't wait for Douglas Murray's appearance on The Rubin Report with Peter Boghossian and documentary film maker Travis Brown . Had to get my fix of rationality, reason and clarity. Thanks for looking out.
I find it interesting that as human beings, we NEED story! We seek to make sense of that which, without a real purpose or meaning, obviously doesn't make sense, it just is. Whether you believe in God or not, you still seek to create or discover a REAL narrative, which involves asnwering questions such as: origins, meaning, morality, and ultimate destiny. Is that hardwired into us on purpose - or by accident? As one of the speakers stated, nearly no one lives out a nihilistic view of the universe consistently - which is, perhaps, a demonstration of the irrationality of man... or perhaps a clue! Naturalism or theism are both views that could easily be considered by many to be... well... unbelievable!
Everything has a story doesn't it, whether small or huge. Everything has an origin. I truly believe that athiesm has many more questions to answer if they don't believe.
Christianity, pure and simple, is the best fit, nothing else makes sense.
Indeed, it is also truly beautiful. ❤️🙏❤️
@@beemer2869 Really well put mate. Stories are crucial. They define our lives.
@@117Industries thank you. They most certainly do. 👍🙏
big fan of douglas murray
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you.
Douglas Murray is more Christian than he thinks he is and understands Christianity's core message really well. God bless him ;-)
The problem one questioner raised about both Christianity and postmodernism relying on stories or myths is solved for me when I consider that all stories are not created equally; all authors are not equally compelling. The story that's been invented from Pomo is dark and malevolent, without love, redemption and forgiveness. It's narrow and hateful; it burdens rather than frees. And as to JB's question of wishing the Christian story to be true, ask yourself what the Wokeists wish to be true.
Jeffery Epstein and John McAfee
The story of Jesus is actually symbolized in tonality (music) . He is the second member of the tonal Trinity who dies and rises to make minor and major chords.
"I didn't know you were that way."😂 Very dry Hitch! Considering that that is what piqued Hitch's interest (ie. Douglas's belief in the virgin birth back in 2008) rather than a ribald answer to finding out Douglas was gay!
Preaching the gospel is the main point. Feeding the poor is a secondary issue. Secularists would prefer us to do the second only
Could have listened to them for hours and hours... Such a beautiful and important conversation. Thank you.
I think Douglas made a very interesting observation at the beginning about the church tradition being abandoned and how many people are grieving over that including himself. But what was even more fascinating is that he equalised that with The Gospel.
And how often we do this?!
Things that are dear to us in our culture, that has been even shaped by the Gospel we confuse them with the Gospel itself.
Great point by Tom Wright about coming as a society to believe the Enlightenment Lie that Christianity was no more than part of the problem rather than where to look for the solution. An interesting topic in its own right, Justin, for a future programme?
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
Douglas reads Ratzinger.
To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.”
― John Henry Newman
Deeply satisfying conversation between smart men of good will. Can we add women?
Douglas, you seemed to have faith in a Church, The Church of England, as apposed to faith in Jesus Christ.
While there is a Real Church, "The Body of True Believers", much of the church we see in the world is a church of human rules. This would be like the same church of Israel during the time of Christ.
They want to drink as directly from the well as they can
I would love to hear a conversation between Tom Holland and Douglas Murray. Both are "wistful unbelievers" with a profound respect for Christianity, but Tom Holland is more liberal. Holland sees the admission of millions of refugees into Europe as a Christian act, whereas Murray believes it is weakening Europe and the Christian inheritance. I tend to agree with Murray, but I would like to see them debate that issue.
I have the greatest respect for Douglas Murray not only because he is brilliant but because there is an honest desire for the truth in him. I pray that he will one day be found by the Truth, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and come home to the Real Presence and the fullness of the Truth in the Catholic Church. St Joseph, pray for us.
Great convo! Drilling in “love your enemy” to American Christians is often and conveniently met with “well jesus flipped over the tables in the temple.” Sure there are moral teachings from jesus (and many other religions as well) but the sad aspect is the permission of faith, and the cherry-picking from the book of multiple choice, otherwise known as the bible.
That's true. And many use this 'table flipping' example as an excuse to throw tantrums. The line between righteous anger and personal (and unreasonable) outrage is blurred for some.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you....
@@williamlanecraig752 impersonating. More Christian honesty! Being reported
I love listening to you guys. It is so refreshing to listen to people with brains that have used them to reflect on life and its mysteries.
Does anybody else feel that they are talking past each other? I think Murray is drawn to the beauty of the Christian faith and Wright is drawn to the contemporaneous power of the Church of Woke.
The phrase from Hebrew for which Douglas is looking is "Tikkun Olam". As understood by non-Orthodox Jews it doesn't just mean "good works (which in traditional Judaism is obligatory and is rooted in the root word for justice, rather than discretionary charity") but social work directed towards political change.
I have loved this conversation and honesty. Agree with Douglas how the church needs to stop apologising for itself. I love answers from NT Wright . For me this missing piece is the link between Judaism and Christianity. Much of Christianity has lost its understanding because it has missed understanding the Torah. Messiah Yeshua/ Jesus did not appear in the new testament but deeply rooted in the Old Testament.
Bishop Wright cannot possibly be a disciple of Jesus. Jesus only chose Jewish males to be his disciples. Jesus came to the "Lost sheep of the House of Israel" and not to the Gentiles. Luke 14 verse 26" If any come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Surely this excludes Bishop Wright. Matthew 10 verse 1 "And when he had called unto his twelve disciples, he gave them power unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease." As far as I know, Bishop Wright would not know what to do if anyone fell ill.
Douglas puts it all together so well as an uncomfortable agnostic.. Thank you so much for holding the church to its standards. I think you make a huge contribution from the outside of our faith, especially to those who would not listen to the pastors. Its not the bible at fault, but rather the lukewarmness of the church and those who still call themselves Christians and preach the most appalling heresy, eg. Church of England.
Can we take a moment to appreciate how brilliant Murray's impression of Chris Hitchens at 17:30 is? :)
Great conversation! Thank you! I've read quite a bit of Tom Wright, and heard some of his lectures. However, this has been my introduction to Douglas Murray. I've started reading "The Madness of Crowds", and Douglas, I find your talk and your book fascinating and refreshing!
Lots of interest, thanks, but one clarification. Plato/Socrates does teach not doing harm to enemies, and doing right for them, which is effectively loving them, as for Plato doing right for someone is loving them. It leads them to what’s good, beautiful and true - in a word, divine. Hence in Crito 49c, Socrates says, “Then we ought neither to requite wrong with wrong nor to do evil to anyone, no matter what he may have done to us” and in Republic 1 335e, Socrates concludes, after a long discussion precisely undoing the assumption that it is just to harm enemies: “For it has been made clear to us that in no case is it just to harm anyone.”
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you...
Well done Justin. Great show.
Daddy dearest is it really true about jesus?
Oh no my son, you're making a genre error there.
As if! So dishonest to tell these stories to kids as if they are real then talk about metaphor and category mistakes in a grown up conversation. Where's your consistency? Or is it a matter of "believe it for as long as you can then ill teach you some adult words so you won't have to be embarrassed"?
Fascinating discussion and very encouraging to hear such depth of thought from all speakers. Many thanks.
Mr. Wright asserts allowing women Bishops because the single fact Mary magdalene was a woman. Not because of government pressure to do so. In that case why did the Church not think of this before? Mr.Wright is asserting this is coincidental and not a cause. Are we to believe gay marriage being allowed is also coincidental not a causal affect of government instruction?
It is irrational to assert the timing of the church thinking on women bishops and gay marriage is coincidental. The appointment of women bishops and gay marriage has been implemented when government has indirectly signaled the church to do so. The English Church takes instruction on right and wrong from government and not God.
Loved the conversation. But "goodness of creation"... Tell that to kids mutilated blind by the goodness of Onchocerca sp worms. Live and let live sure... the golden rule sure... but don't wax lyrical about the goodness of creation, nature can be harsh and cruel beyond measure.
How can Douglass Murray be an agnostic yet understand the necessity for foundational bible based truths, versus the philosophies and ways of the world without the gospel? I suppose because he was raised Christian but it's very unusual for a non-believer. Interesting
Hi
First time listener and a great podcast. Is this the rumbling of a church willing to go on the front foot? Ps love to hear Jordan Peterson on. His interview with Bishop Barron of Canada was epic.. Thanks so much for this stimUlating conversation.🙏💜
Matthew 28:18-20
We must do this because Jesus said so.
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We have His word now.
Very sharp people discussing a very relevant topic. Thanks JB. Beautiful discussion about the so called 'thin places' are found in Philip Yancey's RUMORS OF ANOTHER WORLD, or Peter Berger's A RUMOR OF ANGELS.
Child of God, let pray for our Country nations State's Communities and our households specially our families against deadly disease affliction in our nations.
Child of God keep your dreams alive.
understand to achieve anything requires faith and believe in yourself, vision, hard work, determination and dedication,
Remember all things are possible for those who believe. ( 2 Corinthians 9:6 ) Help others make a living by sowing a seed of faith to these Ophanage Motherless Home Savior foundation, location in Edo State Nigeria 🇳🇬 before 2day with faith.
and let me know so I can join you in prayer deeply because he want to manifest his promises in your life and that of your lovely family.
you are lifted up above any spiritually tower.
These Children's are in NEED of HELP.
Specially SUCCESS BAYO who's currently.
suffering from leukemia.
Nobody should know about the seed is between you and God, is a Convenant seed,
you will testify to the Glory of God after you have done it if only you believe in him and do what he says, (Proverb 3:27, 21:26, 22:9 ) ( Deu, 28: 15 )( Zachariah 4:6 ) contact the MD of the orphanage foundation, What'sApp:- (+2349045265197) Or Email:- ( Gracefoundation54@gmail.com)
(Luke 6:38) As you believe and do so may almighty God multiply your income and cast away all the attack in your life and I pray for Divine Grace, favour, protection and blessings
shall be your portion in Jesus Name.
God bless you..
Question: 2+2 = ?
Wright: Well, Jesus of course
Haha I jest. I actually love his conviction in Jesus, and quite honestly I’d be willing to accept that answer^. Great conversation! Nothing but love for this Unbelievable show where the conversations are certainly not small.
Hearing Murray speak ferociously against the barbarism of islam i was somehow stumbled to realize how he was cosying up to Christianity.
I guess after the massacres of islam I assumed his stance towards religion would be less tolerant.