GAUGE THE ISSUE: Rail Inclusivity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ม.ค. 2021
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FFS hertage railways need all the help they can get, whether that help is male or female.
or if that help is anything else!
Railways need everyone, and have got to accept that a not insignificant portion of the people who like railways might be discouraged by how Male the culture appears to be.
In my opinion, if a person, monkey, dog, anyone, can do the job they're told to, I respect them. Railway work is generally an arduous profession, and if you're up to it, I say you should be welcomed.
Jack the chacma baboon agrees
Dogs are males... 😜
there is actually a story of a monkey that worked as a signal man, a simple search in youtube should bring it up.
@@BassandoForte not all dummy,
@@the4tierbridge - They are - The females of Canis familiaris are actually called birches - dummy... 😜
I'm a woman first and a train driver second. Some of the things I've had said to me in the last 3 years I've worked on the railway has been shocking...and common!! Not a week goes by that something isn't said to me.
You're doing your business proud
As someone who has supported a well known heritage Railway in the Cotswolds where I have worked along side quite a few females no problems at all though one of them would just wrap a shovel round the doubters
When I suffered homophobic abuse at a well known heritage railway in the North West, and made a formal complaint as a result, I was told that the railway in question was not 'in the business of thought police.' None of the train staff, or platform staff, were trained to deal with, or were aware of hate crime. In recreating the 1950s railway they managed to recreate the social attitudes too. :(
Appropriate thing to do? If it were a volunteer or staff member doing the abusing then drop them in it with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. If it were a member of the public who was not removed the premises in the aftermath? Drop them in it with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. It's the dismissal of the formal complaint that's the problematic issue.
I know a lady who restored her Quarry Hunslet steam loco from a kit of rusty parts and she is a self tought steam locomotive engineer. she has made it look the way it did when it came out of the workshop back in 1901 and it runs like a pocket watch.
@@eliotreader8220 Oh yes! I love Quarry Hunslets! Good for her!
@@eliotreader8220 Would that be Kay Bowman by any chance? Dorothea is an amazing locomotive - and she's a highly talented engineer!
When I suffered sexual abuse at a railway in Scotland and later saught to find justice for those actions, I was told it best not to report it as the volunteer had retired from volunteering and it would just make the railway look bad. Followed by some paper thin reassurance that they now had a child protection policy in place having basically been forced to by the state.
Sorry to hear of your experience Anthony, glad it hasn't pushed you away from the field and glad you found a happy spot at mosi a museum I to used to do some turns at in the computing exhibit. We probably ran into each other without knowing it back then.
8 people control locomotives with their wedding tackle.
Some very depressing stories there, but to be honest I think the railway enthusiast community in general does have this strong contingent stuck in the world of Bernard Manning. I'm not saying that it's by any means a majority, but there's a certain loud minority who seemingly expect the privilege of being able to express obnoxious views, but view any pushback as some sort of violation of their basic human rights and start throwing the word "woke" around. And people let them get away with it - too many people would rather placate the loudest objectors than rock the boat by calling them out.
I'd personally like to meet those people. They must be very talented, but obviously pretty lonely...
Go woke , go broke
You can keep woke , I'm fast asleep
@@retrorambles517 you must be bloody talented to type this in your sleep then
The instant you say "inclusivity" they all polarise into two camps; you're either "phobe-ist" or you're an AIW (antisocial injustice worshipper). It's all binary to them; they wouldn't understand the Middle Way if they had the Buddha's life. Yes or no, on or off, one or none; worse yet, the fanaticism of the AIW in signalling virtues they don't have to feed their white saviour complexes frequently has anyone else running to the bigoted smeghead's side, because they see only total insanity from the other side. And thus, nothing is solved.
There do seem to be a lot of people in the wider heritage scene who think period accuracy constitutes period attitudes. If it's not bad H&S, it's racist, sexist and homophobic cak.
Maybe that's the problem, those people aren't interested in the railway, bus or whatever, they think it's an excuse to go back to their comfy world of casual hate. They'll end up killing the heritage scene altogether.
As a trans lass, I can't thank you enough for raising this issues we face and also making it trans inclusive :))
It's nice to know there's more than just a couple of us around. There are absolutely concrete reasons that I feel *very* hesitant about getting involved with heritage rail, as much as I'd like to, but it's always encouraging to see that other people *do* get involved and get by.
I'm gay and I volunteer for a heritage railway here in Australia, I'm lucky that the railway has an anti-discrimination policy that applies to every single person there, I think half the management board is actually made up of women and one of the workshop managers is a woman as well, who is also training to become a guard and has the proper training to run the section cars and other on-track machinery. I'm also open about my sexuality when it is relevant and the other volunteers don't treat me any differently.
It's absolutely heartbreaking to see that so many other heritage railways are still stuck back in the 1950s and before when it comes to social values. Just because the trains are old shouldn't mean the social values have to be old.
"Just because the trains are old doesn't mean the social values have to be old."
Well said lad.
It's heart breaking to hear about these stories. It annoys me that such archaic views are still held by some staff. The railways need anyone who's willing to volunteer, no matter their gender, identity and sexuality. Yet there's still people who hold onto their outdated views and crass comments thinly veiled as 'banter' towards such people, which could put off people volunteering when railways are practically begging for such enthusiastic staff. It's still great to see such people still working on the railways in the face of such adversity and proving that they are just as, if not more, capable of doing the job as any man. And doing that is the best 'up yours' to such adversity.
I've said this for quite a while now (in other places). I used to be a complete racist (I openly admit that rather shamefully) but now I've completely changed that utterly preposterous way of thinking. I'm now 18 and you can't prejudge a person by their race, gender, or sexuality just because of the job they work in. They're just other people! Just like any other person working for whatever job.
I’m shocked that people are discriminated at the railways just for simply being who they are. I see absolutely no problem with their being women or trans members of staff either at a heritage railway or on national rail. They are just as capable as everyone else to do the job they are given. This age old stereotype about women being the ‘weaker sex’ must stop as to put it simply it’s BS.
This all reminds me of my my model railroad club, where the N word whas used almost daily and members spoke about cops killing innocent black people to keep them in line.
Well that just sounds awful. I’m sorry you experienced that.
@@Parovoz0251 thanks
Oh my God. That's terrible. I hope you've been able to get away from that place...
That's disgusting behaviour.
Doesn't matter who you are or what situation. If someone's talking smack about you, tell them to bugger off.
I really feel you've put so much heart into wording and delivering this. You really discuss the topics that others would shy away from. You really make a difference with your work. I look up to you chris. Don't ever stop being wholesome and awesome Chris. Without you touching on such subjects they would go unnoticed. Good on you.
As somebody writing a story with a female protagonist who has an interest in steam engines, this was a great (but unfortunate) thing to listen to. Anybody can work on a heritage railway and should not be discouraged because some old dog or annoying armchair says otherwise.
Pretty rich to call steam engines a 'men only' thing when the universal opinion is a locomotive is female and has sisters anyways.
Hear hear! Anyone with an interest and ability to keep the old rails alive should not be turned away or discouraged.
I volunteer on a railway with a couple of women who work the trains. These are brilliant people and do a dam good job of it
@ChrisEden-Green THANK YOU! You are wonderful and I love your videos!!! ❤️❤️❤️🚂❤️❤️❤️
Railway Enthusiasm and volunteering are not gendered terms, and the fact these people are being mistreated or harassed is just awful. Yes, I'm male, and would love to volunteer on a heritage/museum/preservation railway, but I am fully for more diversity on these railways. Being homosexual and autistic myself, I somewhat fear for what would happen if I do volunteer, especially after hearing some of these stories.. but, perhaps these things need to be braved, and some feet need to be put down when it comes to this sort of behavior..
I would say dont let the experiences of others put you off. You maybe surprised and you could join a line that are very inclusive and will be glad your there to help and keen to be involved.
Really agree with this, another problem is inclusivity for younger people, I was kicked off a railway for being too young, it's a shame that there is nothing like what the national traction engine trust is doing with its steam apprentice club for traction engines. I've never understood why there is (not to my knowledge) no equivalent club for the railways.
There may be an insurance issue there. I have done work with a volunteer group running a tallship, with the minimum volunteer age being 15. Since they do youth voyages for 15 to 21 year olds, the passenger insurance is simple, but there was resistance for the minimum crew age, with the insurance company wanting it raised.
www.nymr.co.uk/junior-volunteers I think this is what your looking for?
Bravo! Thank you, thank you. This is an issue that needs to be talked about and corrected.
I actually did a small research project on this exact topic for my anthropology class last semester. What I had found was shocking but not to the degree of some of these telling's.
I used to volunteer for a small heritage railway about an hour from my home. We had a woman conductor who had been volunteering there for more than 5 years now, she never faced any discrimination as far as I'm aware, thank goodness. Everyone there was excepting of me as well. I was the 2nd to youngest volunteer there, being 17 years old at the time, and gay. Of course some of them said that I didn't come off as gay, maybe they expect all gays to be super flamboyant or something, I don't know. Haha.
That message at the end was so inspirational to me, thank you. My dad has asked me before "Aren't you afraid that guys are gonna mock you for being gay if you become an engine driver?" and to that I say "They can mock me all they like but every railfan I've met is excepting of me. That's just a bridge that I have to cross when I get there."
This was really nice to hear Chris, it really does mean something to see someone i look up to in the railway world standing up for my place to belong as a trans woman. Thank you
Absolute priceless gem of a video! Thank you for addressing all these issues. Very powerful and actually very moving, too.
I'm also mildly Autistic and bisexual, and I used to want to be a fireman (and later driver) but having Epilepsy from the age of 17, I was held back from it (luckily, I had no seizures since I was introduced to the medication at the time). As a result, I had a long, complicated career in the heritage railway circuit, from helping to restore engines at Didcot, to becoming a TTI at Bodmin, something I love doing! Pandemic or no pandemic, I now think to myself, "I need another fix. I need to keep volunteering at a heritage railway somewhere".
This goes for heritage railways or any other aspect of life. It is really important for men to call out their colleagues and friends when this kind of discrimination takes place. Whether it's in a private conversation or directed at the victim, don't let it slide, don't lend acceptance through your silence and don't leave your colleagues to be victims of this discrimination alone. I know it is awkward, but doing this is crucial to change this toxic culture.
As a trans women I'm scared to volunteer at the pontypool and blaenavon railway it's probably just my head playing tricks on me but I'm very scared of how I'm going to be treated
We have a trans woman. I say go for it. If they can't accept you for who you are then that's their loss not yours
@@courtforder4046 yeah I can always go volunteer at brecon mountain railway instead
@@welsh_Witch yea there's always a plus side. I was hesitant to start but when I did it no exaggeration changed my life for the better my confidence really boosted.
@@courtforder4046 that's great
@@welsh_Witch good luck to you 🙂 every heritage railway needs there share of volunteers
I know Amy from Cass personally, really great to hear from her in this video!
Discrimination within a volunteer-run operation, particularly with something as complex as a heritage railway, is a very quick way to guarantee fewer and fewer volunteers stick around.
I'm a straight white male in Australia and I have notice sexism towards women in railway circles coming from minorities. I'm glad you have covered this issue the way it deserves, with respect and careful journalism. there is a railway company here in NSW Australia that prefers women because they get the job done properly and look after the equipment better than there male counterparts. the sexism is something that needs to be a topic of discussion so it can be abolished. Thankyou for raising this issue and covering it as well as what you have
Yes. A friend's daughter, whom I've known since she was a schoolgirl, is a driver for Sydney Trains. She loves her job, and is very good at it.
Great video as always Chris. Well done for talking about issues in Railway Circles and not taking the easy route of wallowing in Titfield nostalgia.
I'm glad that you've brought this topic up, and treated it with the sincerity it deserves. It's a real shame to see discrimination still sitting rife within railway preservation; I have frequently heard shameful remarks from railway volunteers and enthusiasts about female peers, and it often makes me feel frankly embarrassed that I'm part of a community that can sometimes seem to be rather reluctant to move with the times and show simple respect and decency to others, regardless of who they are. I can only hope that once Covid is behind us, which can not come soon enough, we will see an influx of volunteers into the heritage railway circle, bringing a more open minded approach as to who we work alongside, and a better understanding that someone's gender and sexuality do not reflect in any way, shape or form, their capabilities.
The situation must improve immediately. I’ve only seen a handful of female railway workers, and one of them was a guard on a line in my home state of Maine.
I work in the NHS a generally female dominated place. It seems that if it’s a male dominated place women will get jibes and the odd joke because they are the smaller group and for me personally I get jibes and stuff, the odd joke about “manly” things (if you know you know) for being the youngest member and one of only 5 regular male workers at my local hospital. It’s an interesting topic either way and I think that both genders will nip at the other if they are more numerous. Just from personal experience, no hate. I am just comparing to what has been mentioned in this.
I think that this is one of the best videos you have ever made Chris in terms of helping those involved with preservation railways to address the issue of keeping the sector alive and relavent, Only those organisations who are willing to attract and welcome EVERY and ANY new volunteer will survive. Thank you for another brilliant video.
This is brilliant. It’s embarrassing that in a time when model railway and railfanning content is rushing out of every social media platform this is a conversation we’re simply not having. Thank you for putting this together.
I think it’s great your help bringing this to attention, I doubt a lot of people have heard about this
I volunteer on a railway and with the handful of female and transgender volunteers, they make fantastic volunteers and to separate them for their genders is straight up pathetic and stupid. Railways need all the help they can get from anyone and everyone!
Didn’t the oldest known trainspotters book (stored in the NRM) belong to and was written by a young woman?
As a volunteer on a heritage railway (won’t name where) I have heard some disgusting things said about women that I don’t care to mention. This would definitely be off putting to any female volunteers. To any anybody reading this, railway volunteer or not, of any gender, just treat people with the same respect you would expect. I would hope they wouldn’t mind me saying but I know of several LGBTQ individuals at said railway who have both been the victims of awful comments either in the name of banter or just hideous shitty things to say. And this is from both volunteers and passengers.
We all have a responsibility to make sure everyone we meet isn’t discriminated against. It’s a serious issue and not something to joke about like many do.
Recently I joined the Mid Norfolk Railway in Dereham as a member, and admittedly being genderfluid i was a bit worried about how things would go.
I absolutely love it! Everyone in the trust has been so kind and helpful and it's made for an incredible experience.
I plan to start volunteering in Traction and Rolling Stock next year when i turn 18, and I'm on good terms with the Trust Council, though I still want to get involved however I can before then because simply why not?
Thank you so much to everyone at the Mid Norfolk Railway, and if you are reading this please donate to our emergency appeal for Crownthorpe Bridge. It would be greatly appreciated!
This is the best episode of gauge the issue hands down! It really hurts me to know that some people have the gall to make comments about a volunteer's gender or sexuality. Being a volunteer myself, it must be terrible to make sacrifices to do something you love just to be rewarded with remarks from "the boys". This genuinely makes me reflect on my time volunteering, and how I can help prevent people from having similar experiences to those shown in this episode.
OMG! PREACH! 1. There is a whole conversation (and plenty of TED Talks) about how bogus 'gender roles' are! 2. As a gay man in the rail preservation industry, I wish we had more women in the Midwest (US) groups! But it is because a lot of the scenarios you talk about here happen around here. I can completely understand/empathize too, as I've had fellow group members completely disregard and distance themselves from me after they learn of my sexuality. It's like, dudes, I'm here to fix and preserve trains, not hit on you.
A (female) friend of mine was a firelighter (and later firewoman) on the Talyllyn Railway in the 1970s and 1980s. She faced similar to what the individuals quoted described, suggesting change is worryingly slow.
That surprises me - Although I've only been there a short while, I found the Talyllyn to be one of the most welcoming and inclusive lines out of those I've visited and volunteered on. That's easy to say as a Cis, White British male but certainly it has one of the most diverse volunteer forces I've come across in railway circles. Still rather male-heavy at times, but not often exclusively male by any means.
@@sem-zs3nl That was back in the 1970s, though-things may have changed since then.
@@thomasoates3003 As far back as the '50s, there didn't seem to be any women on the TR, besides 'The Old Lady' herself. Indeed, no mention was made of females working their in Railway Adventure, and I bring this up, because I believe back then, it would definitely have been somewhat unusual. Indeed, Rolt made a somewhat degrading remark regarding the female gender, while describing the details of Dolgoch's temperamental nature.
@@ajaxengineco Interesting.
Well Done for speaking up about this issue Chris, I'll happily have anyone (who isn't a straight up arse) by my side while volunteering!
This excellently was able to discuss how these individually occurring events are a burden on all rail enthusiasts. Really everyone loses in this regard and I think it every rail enthusiast should look into ensuring that thinks like what you described don’t happen.
How can you decipher someone's sexual orientation just from the way they handle signal levers?!? Whoever made that comment was clearly just wanting to harass, as their statement had absolutely no logic behind it.
If there's one thing I've learned in life it's that you can cure a disease but you can't cure human stupidity I think it's great that women are getting into railway preservation and I hope they enjoy there work with it
Thank you for this.
Thanks Chris for changing my mind about women on heritage railways
When I was volunteering at the worth valley railway back in 2010 to 12 I was quite happy for girls joining there last like that's who want to keep the railway running and I sed it is nice for a change of who joins
Thanks for the effort you put into this, Chris. Being in the US and far from any heritage railway circles I haven't exactly encountered any situations like these myself, but thinking back to other media which I've seen (television series', books, etc.), all of the generic railway workers are always men, which is such an absolute shame! The same problem has been going on over here in the tech/engineering industries -- there have been situations where beginning women are lambasted by their male colleagues (if you can call them that) and driven away.
Anyone who has a passion for steam locomotives, computers, engineering, or anything else should feel welcome and encouraged to act on that passion, to take active involvement in whatever ways they want to. Stereotyping in any hobby, work field, or general circumstance only ever harms the people involved, and -- while being conscious of historical accuracy, but not prioritizing it over correcting harmful preconceptions -- I hope we can make efforts to limit it in our media, to show greater diversity and inclusivity. Even depicting a single female amongst a sea of men can show that, while it may be mostly COMPRISED of men, it's not JUST a man's hobby or job; if they have the passion and drive, anyone can do it!
I volunteer at a well established railway and to my knowledge there are 2 women footplate crew (could be more I'm still new to the department and a fair few of our station staff are women) and both have been well excepted into the railway and have even taught me on more than one occasion how to do something ie shunting, hooking on, doing vac pipes ect and all the times I've been around them or seen them working with other crew members I've never heard any sexist remarks or anything of that nature uttered. And in general everyone gets along. Sure some volunteers have there disagreements but that's usually over general railway stuff going on.
Get out there and volunteer and if people dont like you then that's there loss.
As for people saying "oh this line is way better than that line" and then taking offense when sombody turns around and says the opposite frankly need to grow up. Yes we can have our opinions but you dont need to be stubborn and rude about it. In 2019 I joined a fledgling railway, we dont have a very long line or much equipment however we work extremely hard to keep what we have going and working towards running trains again in the hopefully not to distract future and need all the support we can get and we are extremely proud of what has been achieved so far and it was extremely disheartening to read comments on a post about a particular piece of equipment we have saying "this place is crap and not worth a visit". Heritage railways dont have to be these big multi million pound setups that run massive galas and events they can be short little branch lines giving people something to do for an hour or 2.
Credit to the railways that have grown from nothing to a very successful operation however when a new line pops up it usually gets slammed for being crap and have very little to do before it can prove it's worth and grow.
Please give small railways the chance to show what they can do!
love this video
I think the more people getting involved, the better I don't care who they are and there background. I bake a mean cake myself, lemon and lime dribble.
Bloody well said mate! 👍🇦🇺
Personally I love to see more women tackling jobs or engaging in hobbies often assumed to be more male orientated. I'm a proud classic car enthusiast & am a member of the Gay Classic Car Group. Not only did we win national club of the year twice in 2019 despite all the crap we typically get on social media, namely from knuckle draggers who think our club is outright unnecessary, we have our club which is all inclusive, even welcoming straight individuals as well as all chapters of the LGBTQ+ spectrum. I'm always really happy to see women exhibiting their cars at shows as well as working in the trade, I imagine they get their unfair share of comments but as far as I'm concerned, a club or organisation that is dedicated to a hobby or a movement is there to bring people together, whatever gender, orientation, colour or belief. It shouldn't matter what you are if you're passionate about something & wish to be involved in that passion.
If anybody reading this has had the experiences or similar experiences read out in this video, I want to say that I absolutely applaud your dedication & enthusiasm to pursue what you do & that takes bigger balls to do than most of the people who attempt to belittle you have. Thank you all very much for keeping our hobby alive as well as working hard to get the job done.
Bloody hell this heartbreaking, I’ve always felt if you love the railways and are willing to put your time then go for it. Sexism has no place on the platforms and footplates! And women deserve more respect, the railway needs volunteers and these women are ready to step up and put their heart and soul into it.
I was hoping that person who was fired after transitioning became a lawyer and sued BR's ass off.
One explanation for why there's not many woman in the railway industry is maybe they just don't have any interest in it? Railways generally have a "Man's hobby" vibe to them.
Not to say woman AREN'T interested, there's clearly a large amount that do but women are clearly the periphery demographic.
Reminds me of how those Horses are meant for girls but a whole bunch of dudes got interested.
Thing is that explanation is entirely impossible to prove. From my experience people generally have reasons for liking things whether or it they're aware of it. It's generally best to assume there's more going on than just 'it's because they're female'.
My railway is sadly lacking in women in operational departments, however those who are there have a whole span of stories and experiences and approaches, from those who feel they have to make a point of how much work they are doing to match up to the men, to those who quietly get on with their jobs but calmly and firmly put anyone who questions their right to be there, back in their place.
As far as I am concerned, anyone who is on a footplate, guards van or signalbox is there on their own merit, they have been trained and passed out to the same standards as everyone else, and whether they are male, female, non-binary, trans, gay, straight, bi, or anything else you care to mention should be utterly irrelevant.
I think I know who that "Tame Lawyer is" if it's the person I think, I always enjoy reading her views on subjects railway based, as she has a huge breadth of experience of railways, experience which a lot of us will never match, and usually has something interesting to say, not that I always agree with her!
The only thing I will say, is any lass volunteering to work with me will be told to make the tea at some point, all the boys are told the same, and we all take turns!
A good editorial as ever mate, you, as always have founds words to express something that i have been considering, in a far better way than I can ever manage.
I think in mainline terms many of the issues were tackled by Helena Wojtczak in her pioneering work "Railwaywomen"...this traces the whole history of women's involvement in Railways and includes a description of her own experiences as BR's first female guard. Well worth a go if you haven't looked at it so far...I found it a cracking good read!
Honestly it's surprising to me for a because you don't expect girls to have an interest in trains. But, it makes me happy seeing women volunteering at heritage because I know that there's women out there who have an interest in trains and isn't afraid to get their hands dirty. And to any railroad girls reading this, keep doing what you're doing.
🙌🙌🙌🙌 hats off!
Oh hey I didn't know Chris knows TFL Creative Media! I agree with all of this,I don't understand the Streotype that you need to be a Boy to work with Locomotives
I'm a young neurodivergent male who started volunteering at an air museum doing restoration when I was 17. All the other volunteers there have gone out of their way to make me included and teach me all the skills. We have the banter but its just fun stuff. I do however have issues from visitors who assume I don't know anything or can't do anything and when I tell them what I do at the museum they don't believe me. The most insulting though is when I get quizzed about my knowledge while I am trying to work. Visitors with questions often go and seek one of the other volunteers instead of me for questions or even saying things like "i'm not asking you" which is also insulting. However, my fellow volunteers are great and when someone directs the questions at them while ignoring me or pushing me off to the side they will not answer but instead just ask me saying that I am the most knowledgeable.
I love volunteering so much, honestly one of the best things I have ever set out to do
I dated a woman rail fan and every time we went to train shows the people who sold tickets often said to her “we don’t charge for drivers”
This annoyed us both
here in the States we experience similar things. Not just sexism. The one I feel will affect me the much when I start volunteering is when the old guns discourage us newer ones simply because of our age and the fact we may know ways that will help make things easier. I'm going off hearsay but its the sort of hearsay thats very believable because we run into those things outside of railroad heritage all the time. Mostly on Twitter and Facebook
I’ll toss in my 2 cents, when i started volunteering at a railroad my mom also joined in and got convinced to join rail ops. Long story short she was one of there better conductors on road trains standing side by side with guys who worked even when steam ran who worked the line back in the day. Overall we didn’t really encounter it that much except for 1 guy who on a train she was conductor for on a return trip and he was on the way up he was going to close a aircock mid train to screw up breaking. Well he said that with a FRA inspector who was also a state trooper in earshot. I think you know how that went once the chief of operations heard it. We left that line for reasons awhile back but that is just how it goes. A lot of us left. From what I’ve seen personally and from those i worked with then it seems to be more a trouble in the UK as apposed to our part of the US but that is just a small section of a state. One of the other female crew members and her husband now are on the east broad top in track gang and i moved to starting a museum here. Just 2 cents.
What a shame we are still dealing with attitudes like this in the 21st century. As a gay trans woman rail enthusiast, I'm grateful Chris has raised the subject of discrimination in the rail industry. Sadly, my partner also still encounters similar neanderthals, who simply cannot deal with the idea of a female electrical engineer.
Hi Chris, Yes we found ourselves in China 2017 and 50 miles south of my Wifes home town there is a steam railway. Very touresty but there are Local trains if you catch the 7.15 up the valley. I noted several Girls working in the guards wagon... You cant exactly call them carriages. Yes Chris you know my preference having met Lily. Clive Groom on the Bluebell has 4 Daughters with I think 2 Driving to very high standards. Love David and Lily.
I won't lie, I haven't really heard of non-cis (non-disabled) men working on railways before, but now hearing this I hope more people can be welcomed into the industry!
I'm an autistic trans female train fan and it's inspiring to see so many fight the odds and unfortunate sexism/discrimination to follow their dreams and passions. For all the hard workers out there, thank you for your service and to a brighter future!
The current driver school I’m part of at Chiltern has 6 out of 12 women and it’s all the better for it.
To be honest, I completely agree with you. I agree that woman can work on the railway as much as men does because to what people are doing is a disgraceful act of GENDER STEREOTYPE!
I really dislike gender reinforcements, gender stereotypes, and “boys vs girls” trope.....it is not fair for both genders (thanks a lot 1930s cartoons and advertisements)
hell, as a volunteer tour guide with 2 separate museums (one road transport and the other rail related) I wish we had female volunteers, because half of the volunteers I have worked with over the last 10+ years lack the charisma needed for the job. We have a number of 'in training' tour guides that have the charisma of an old boot, can't remember the information or just suck at public speaking.
I volunteer at a Railway Museum in Snoqualmie/North Bend Washington US. Ive been volunteering with them for the last 2 years, and a good number are female. Granted not many work directly on the more dirty/laboreris jobs like restoration of locomotives and rolling stock, they help preserve other items at the Museum and the main heads i usaly see there are female. There great to work around and very understanding. Being autistic my self hasn't bothered anyone at the Museum either, I've gotten along with most of the staff and volunteers at the Museum. Realy looking forward to my time there in the future!
Such a shame that people can be treated as people and instead have to discriminate others for satisfaction if ya aint got nothing nice or helpful to say sftu
i got turned away from volunteering at a well known gwr depot for being transgender, even though im fully qualified in the thing i wanted to do and have my own tools
That's very unfortunate. But whatever happens, you're among friends here
@@ChristheXelent thats why i buy your things
Great video. Honestly ive loved steam for years but have always been put off volunteering at my local by the worry of being seen as not good enough etc.
Im quite a scrawny non-binary person and I would love to get my hands dirty but im so terrified off the onslaught of the constant questions of 'what are you' etc etc :\
A well-documented video Chris! Thanks for bringing this important topic to light! However, if I may say so, might I offer some creative criticism? While it didn't detract from the video for me personally, your use of those cringey crying emoji's and that rant about fandom drama at the beginning could possibly be a bit jarring for some. Don't let the vocal minority skew your views on the silent majority though, I usually try to stay out of fandom drama myself, and for the sake of you and your videos, I HIGHLY recommend you do the same. Cheers! Well Done! And keep up the good work!
Young people are needed in hobbies such as these as we can learn the ropes doing heavier work. Railway modelling might have you carry heavy baseboards for a club show, sailing there is anchors, sail raising and cockpit lockers.
Computer gaming had a contoversy back in 2014 about a movement called gamer gate.
Man I never knew about this side of the railways, this is disgusting.
I don’t remember ever seeing any women working on the NorthSommersetRailway now I think about it and that’s kind of sad.
I’ll be sure to show my support if I ever see one because yikes, it’s really stupid when you think about it, we usually personify steam engines as females too.
Hopefully this discrimination will die out soon.
I am surprised at this. A lot of the Glasgow tram drivers were women and it was taken for granted, and that was 60 years ago. Russian railways had a lot of women on the locos in steam days.
*Soviet Railways. I recall(although my memory may be a bit shaky) that a few months ago Russian Railways got it’s first female driver. Whether they were referring to the throughout the company, or just a certain line, I’m unsure.
No-one ever said sexism was logical
(Well, people have, but they're absolute dickwads)
What happened to the 2D drawing of your face? They were extremely well drawn and fitted this series.
I grew tired of them. And their novelty wore off on most of the audience before then, so having done this show for a few years, I just fancied an upgrade.
@@ChristheXelent ok, good to here
As a bi, autistic volunteer, I say the more the merrier! No one should be discriminated against for having an interest in the rail scene, herritage or occupational. Anyone chosing to come into the railway world, welcome in!
One answer is that people in rail heritage are more right leaning then not.
its a bit strange how people don't seem to notice a Woman driving a traction engine at a steam rally. while they notice one in the cab of a steam loco?
Very good as always & I agree about woman needing to be given a fair in the railway world, whether it be preservation or Network Rail. When I did my footplate experience at Shackerstone in 2016, I was taught by a female footplate crew member, and I'll always be grateful to her for the high amount of knowledge she has on the subject of operating a steam engine.
Who says there isnt fair access. Fair access wont necessarily end in equal rates not even in equal applications.
People are monsters.
Some people think their views need to be heritage as well
When’s sole slip coming back
liked video 👍
In anything I do, I work and interact with humans.
when I see the title: *visible confusion.
I do some Civil War Reenacting (I know, big shock) and I too have seen some disturbing sexism and antiquated values on display. Hitting on the ladies in the Cavalry who were very clearly not interested and telling a female potential recruit to go by a male name (something I'll note they never asked the captains wife to do) made my skin crawl. At the moment it looks like the battery won't condemn the recent insurrection, and we are literally a *Union* unit that works with our state government at the statehouse. I'll never get why some people seem to think being involved in something historical is free reign to be a bigot, in ways even historical people would have been appalled by.
It comes down to sense of boundary really. You get accustomed to doing things a certain way. That's fine on one hand but it's not always full-proof on the other hand and you can easily overlook that, or at least resist to admit you don't know how to do it best, even for yourself. In other words, taking boundary for granted when it doesn't quite work in one's favor. I personally have always felt that it's good to understand what defines something first before I write about it, and not just leave it for others to decide outside the primary matter that concerns me, which is the root of a one-hand common issue that affects any civilian working practice, and why the message is still not caught on everywhere.
In the military forces you are treated considerably better than under civilian regulations, which I discovered with a TH-cam comment made by an ethnic minor; in military tradition you're always treated like an individual and not simply as one of a group; the problem with being in the army usually just stems from how they interpret you based on your civilian status record, which may not entirely indicate everything about you as a person; once you get past that it is actually a very good experience; death by armed force action is also mainly tied to civilian law restraints posed by boundary emphasis. If one wants better with their lives, push into new horizon, for one may find the answer there in event of doubt. That's the purity of life's journey. Sincere, Samuel F.
I’ve herd loads of documentary’s about steam trains and I’ve almost ALWAYS HERD one of them refer to the loco has “her”.
“Go on old girl” said the driver of A4 mallard during her 125.88 mph run
“Ease her back” said the driver of tornado, an A1 peppercorn during her 100 mph run
I think I even herd someone refer A4 sir Nigel gressly has a girl, same with Scotsman
Edit sorry worded something wrong in that meant to say why everyone even you refers to locos has girls yet it’s such a problem for girls to work on trains
It's an old tradition going back to the early days of the railways (much like the sexism, in some ways). In a similar way to shipping.
When sailors used to be away at sea, they would go for months without seeing their loved ones. As time went by, they would end up referring to the ship they were on as 'she'. So when the steam locomotive came along, this reference transferred over to enginemen who worked on their locomotives.
For some people, a steam locomotive requires careful attention; similar to that they would give their loved ones. Rather crudely, Michel Simon in 'The Train' says "she's like a woman. If you don't treat her just the right way, she'll make your life miserable".
I personally encourage anybody in any form of work. And I agree, it shouldn't be a problem.
@@ChristheXelent by the way could we get a gauge the issue on B.R. Creating a problem and complaining instead of making a solution
I’m talking about how they’ve capped steam at a 75mph speed limit but complain about the said trains clogging up the system
what does wibble mean
It's a nonsensical term adopted by railfans in the UK used to describe arguments that usually stem from opinionated matters.
I was not aware that heritage railways were prejudiced in any way. I notice in the comments that
people are talking about old fashioned ways of thinking, that is pretty odd coming from lovers
of the steam age...
Agreed
Its rediculous that people are still sexist like that. Im a 23 year old guy, wouldnt even question seeing a woman working on any railway, heritage or otherwise. Heck I wouldnt question a woman working anywhere, I work in construction myself and while you see fairly few woman on them, they're always just as good as the guys at their job. I dont understand why anyone even cares. Idiots.
More railfans and rail employees, the better.
There's more than one way of looking at this. For example, there are some ignorant fools out there who say grossly offensive things and behave accordingly, but can we therefore conclude that the railway industry and preservation are systemically prejudiced? If we can, how?
These are fair observations, Stephen.
The way I see it is, just because we're not witness to such events, doesn't mean they're non-existent. You and I were not outside the Dakota when John Lennon was shot, but we both know he's not still alive.
It seems to be the minority who commit offence. But the majority either turn a blind eye, shrug it off, dismiss it or fear taking action because of the consequences.
Someone came to me off the back of this and told me her story. Saying that she has to remain quiet about it because she fears the uproar would cost her the position she's worked at for more than a decade.
I've seen the movement become more accepting to a wider spectrum of people in the last 20 years. And further to the comments you left but then disappeared, I've seen archive film of early preservation where women also got involved (including a founding member of the Ffestiniog's Deviation Project). But there is still the occasional detractor in a high enough position who makes things difficult.
So no, I don't believe the whole system or movement is systematically prejudiced. But as the statements who came forward show, the problem is still there and isn't being discussed enough.
Thank you for asking such a thought provoking question.
@@ChristheXelent You draw what to me is the logical conclusion that the behaviour of individuals is not evidence of systemic prejudice. Policies we can do something about, but how do we deal with stupid individuals? It takes guts to call someone out and not everyone is equipped or willing to do it, however strongly they might feel. The problem we then have is that those who don't call out prejudiced individuals can be seen as being complicit in the prejudice. It's an unwinnable game.
@@uries15 in some cases, unfortunately it is unwinnable. Though in others, such as the fireman with over 35 years experience in preservation, it is possible that the odd occasion is caught out by the right position of authority.
It does rather perturb me that bad behaviour is sometimes let go just because the person behind that behaviour is irreplaceable. There's one in every family, but sometimes it only takes one to put you off for good.
@@ChristheXelent "It does rather perturb me that bad behaviour is sometimes let go just because the person behind that behaviour is irreplaceable." Well, it's not nice, but it is life unfortunately. People like me didn't join BR loco departments in the 1950s and '60s and certainly some of the ex-BR steam men thought me and 'my type' had no business being involved with preserved steam loco operations. One particular ex-Bournemouth driver was very clear about what he thought about "people like me". Maybe we spoiled his attempt to relive his past. Did I care? Well, yes I did actually but did I consider for a moment that railway preservation might not be the place for me? Not at all because I soon concluded that he and people like him were ignorant idiots, so there I stayed on-and-off for over three decades and had a lot of fun. My point is that there are nasty people out there against whom we have no recourse, apart from our own strength of character.
If you can do the job, do the job. That is how I have always looked at it. Unfortunately, my own father believes in the other way of thinking that women don't belong on trains. Although it should be noted that just because someone is a woman does not guarantee them the job they want. I (male) got hit with a sexism complaint at work for refusing to certify another employee (female) as a conductor. It wasn't that she was a woman, the problem was she couldn't or wouldn't do the job SAFELY. Also it doesn't look good for the paying passengers when a train stops to line a switch and an employee goes from the back of the train to the front at a full sprint where everyone can see them.