The Secret of Cistercian Numbers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
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🡇 -------------- accreditation & chapters -------------- 🡇
0:00 billboard
0:14 cold open
1:04 mysterious glyphs
2:09 numerical systems
3:27 cistercian number uses
4:14 anatomy of a cistercian glyph
7:10 Brian's practice run
8:30 testing Brian's interpretation skills
10:26 squarespace ad
11:50 cta
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Additional Information
"cistercian numerals" on wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisterc...
"code talkers" on wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_ta...
before there were wind talkers, Texas had the Choctaw code talkers
tmd.texas.gov/before-there-we...
"flag semaphore" on wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_se...
a wiki article to elaborate on the anecdote in the cta
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drums_i...
"alien nation" on wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_N...)
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Music used in this video:
"The Fallow Fellow" by Cullah
cullah.com/discography/Cullah_...
"Dueling Duality" by Cullah
cullah.com/discography/Cullah_...
"Prove" by Anthony Shea
www.thelovepools.com
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This video was made with the help of:
Brian Brushwood - host -- / shwood
Jason Murphy - host / research -- www.jasonsmurphy.com - / captainmurphy
Brandt Hughes - camera operator / colorist / editor (ep) -- / gatowag - / emergentbeacon
Bryce Castillo - camera operator -- / brycas
John Rael - editor (ad) -- / skepticallypwnd
Annaliese Martin - live audio engineer / copy editor -- / amuseliese
Cory Cranfill - production assistance -- / ccranfill
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Or.... Hear me out... $3 handcuff key hidden on my shoe...
And monks make the best cheese as well ^w^
7:02
Lol
Lol
Nice
Huh, that’s smart
You guys should do one with cistercian Official language
Now try to learn Korean!
Props to the editor(s) on this one. Like how they added the symbol and then greyed it out once brian got the number. Also enjoyed how they did meme numbers in this system
The editor is always great.
Cheeky 420, 69 and evven LEET (1337)
@@yiannik6000 what is LEET
@@coltmcmanis8723 mocking variation of "elite" e.g. "Brian is so good at overwatch, he is such a leet gamer."
Brian "I totally understand this it's so intuitive!" (30 seconds later) "incorrect.... Incorrect"
The only unintuitive thing here is that they flip the orientation of symbols between the quadrants, when they don't have to be. You can just remember which order of magnitude is which quadrant and have a way of showing where is up.
@@mihan2d I think it's less about orientation, and more about position relative to the end of the 0 line. If you think about it that way it's a LITTLE easier to wrap your head around.
An easy way to keep from confusing your 1/2, 3/4, and 7/8 is to remember that the lower number attaches to the end/tip of the 0 line and the higher number attaches towards the middle of the 0 line. I was getting confused by all the flipping around at first, but this makes it super simple to figure out quickly.
OMG OF COURSE! Thank You! though if you get 1/2 and 3/4 sorted, aside from 6 the rest is just maths so 7/8 should be easy if you remember it's 6+1 / 6+2
Just a tip for anyone who is learning this: the only ones that you need to remember is 1234 and 6tge rest can be found out by the sum of the others
Except not really. It really only works on a couple, 7 doesn't work 8 doesn't work either. You'd have to find the very specific combinations to make it. Like 7+1 doesn't make the 8 symbol in this, it makes a 7 symbol. Gotta use 6 and 2 to make 8. 4 and 4 doesnt do it either, just makes another 4.
yeah - theres 5 digits in this system: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and the rest of the decimal, arabic digits r actually cistecian numbers. I dont like it. There r unused combinations. Here
U could make 3 out of 2 and 1. U cant make 4 out of 2 2s, but u could make it out of 1 and 3. U can make 6 out of 2 and 4, but again, u cant double the digits - no 3+3. And then 7 can be 3+4 and 2+5(1+4). 8 cant 2x4, but 3+5, as opposed to 6+2. And 9 can be all sorts of things. What im saying is every number is a distinct character, but not every distinct character is a number and thats worse for me. Its hardly much different than roman. There uve got 1 and 5. U sum 1s up to 3, u detract 1 from 5 for a 4, but u cant detract 2 from 5 for 3, u add 1s to 5 up to 8, u detract 1 from 10 for a 9. And then uve got digits for 10, 50, 100, 500, 1000 with the same rules.
And u cant write fractions with cistercian, nor can u write higher than 9999 and we r in the time, where we do use numbers higher than 10000 often.
@@murderyoutubeworkersandceos This is starting to sound like why we we adopted Arabic numbers in the first place.
@@pearchris yeah - imagine that
@@murderyoutubeworkersandceos if you need more places, use two glyphs, same with fractions
Day nine of me asking them to bring back "Cause I'm a Modern Rooooogggguuuueeee" in the intro
Yesssss
No argument from me.😀
Ples
Day one of me saying that while I agree, the way you're going about it is annoying af
@@jameswalker199 day fourteen of me not giving a single crap
For the last week I’ve been writing this number system on the some of the classroom boards at my school when I’m done with school work. I’m so happy to see them randomly make a video on it.
Didn't numberphile do this recently? Always great to see these ancient secrets being shared and remembered.
420, 69, 8008, and 1337. I knew y’all would do that
What's the last one mean?
@@briansolorzano8693 Leet, as in elite.
@@zemerick ohhh, thank you good sir
You knew they were just like "(sigh) Let's just get these out of the way first..."
stoners, boners, boobs and noobs... in that order
Tfw Jason's pronunciation of "Cistercian" is closer to the French and Latin pronunciations than the dictionary's pronunciation is.
Before I watch the video, did he pronounce it as "kis-ter-ki-an."
@@beybladeguru101 Alas no. No classical Latin pronunciation here I'm afraid.
@@bencampbell5468 It was naive to believe it was possible, but one can hope. Grātiās tibi agō!
I guess it's one of those loan words where we lost the original pronunciation, kinda like how people say "filet" as "FILL-it" and not the more French "fee-LEH"
Ok, maybe a bit rude of me not to mention what the difference was:
It's the vowel sound in "Cist *ER* cian" Jason pronounces it more like "air" than " -b- ir -d- "
"Screw your Roman numerals!" - Murphy, J. MMXXI
I'm upset by how hard that made me laugh
Man, once it's safe to finally visit the Modern Rogue Compound, there needs to be some kinds of Proving Ground competition/obstacle course/that thing Jason did for Brian. And this needs to be on it, both translation and transcription into these symbols. I'm ready for it!
I literally spent hours teaching this to myself four weeks ago and this is weird
Jason is in your house, checking your browser history. Don't look under your bed.
How dare you assume Jason would hide under the bed.
He has too much style for that. He would attach himself to the ceiling so that he can stare down at you terrifyingly as you lie down in bed.
I would expect they both watch Numberphile. ?
Now make yourself an analogue clock
@@aduckwithayoutubechannel lol I didn't say he was actually hiding there... but he should still not look under his bed, for reasons.
Editor, I really appreciate the work you did during the Anatomy chapter.
Also, those numbers you showed towards the end were perfect :D
If you remove the whole "mirroring" part, you could extend this downward indefinitely and use it for literally any number.
Though I'm sure people have already thought of that.
The mirroring seems like a bad idea. It makes it harder to read and also makes it prone to being read upside down by accident.
ye, u need a way to mark the top. Just a dot over 0 would be enough. Good idea
@@murderyoutubeworkersandceos dot on top, and digits go from right to left, up to down, fir instance
tens | ones
thousands | hundreds
hundred thousands | ten thousands
etc...
edit: maybe also add two dots on the bottom to signify the end of the symbol
hope some computer programmer reads my comment and decides to create this symbol in a computer, although I bet it wouldn't help with processing since each section of the symbol is essentially just a digit, but ya never know it might be a breakthrough for some aspect of coding
@@Lysergic_ i dont think a period full stop is needed, like its not needed with the original. If it deosnt end with some square or a line sticking out, there wouldnt be a tail at all.
@@murderyoutubeworkersandceos some numbers would have the tail though, like 2 and 4. Plus it creates a symbol for your brain to immediately scan and recognize when dealing with larger numbers
The kaktovik inupiaq numerals are also very interesting on how easy they are not only for depicting numbers but also in using them. only down side is they work in base 20 instead on 10.
DOWNSIDE?
Okay, I've got it! For each quadrant, you need to know 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. (Why 3 isn't just 1 and 2 together I don't know.) 1 is outer straight, 2 is inner straight, 3 is slant in, 4 is slant out, and 6 is off. Anything else, add to make it. And places move starting in top right and in "S" shape. (Or backwards Z if you wanna be more direct in getting g there.) Pretty cool!
The Modern Rogue is a straight up modern renaissance-man!
It would be really cool if you guys could do one on language learning at some point.
I loved this
Also, per the the end clip, there are tonal languages where the relative tone in a sound changes the words meaning (Mandarin is a famous example), but that's completely different.
I'm also surprised by how easy it is to learn
I basically got the whole thing just from watching the episode
Well done!
Brian thinking with cistercian numbers floating should become the new template. Its much more elegant and simpler than the other one with the formulas
Did Brian really just manage to make a squarespace ad vaguely romantic?
I don't know, I skipped it because I don't need a website.
* Brian struggle s for 2 minutes* “ I love it it’s so simple”
Hahaha whichever editor(s) stuck in 420 69 8008 and 1337, you are legends. Truly modern rogues
Day 14 of reminding the Modern Rogue to do another radio video!
Ha! The math lady gif but these symbols! So good!
You have no idea how badly I wish dress-pants-robot would dub over my voice anytime I mispronounce something in real life.
This feels like it'd be really fun to use in a D&D campaign
Me: It's so simply and logical.
Brian: Let me look at the cheat sheet again.
to be fair, 3 and 4 are easy to mix up
Brian, it's fine 😂 I made my own grid based written language in secondary school (UK) / Highschool 😊
I seriously love this.
I think it really says something that I just paused the video to study the symbols and find a pattern that clicked for me and I was able to get both of the answers without looking at the key.
In my mind if you know 1,2,3,4,6 then you know the whole code up. Its actually an incredible system.
I love this number method and have been using it for several years in game notes and such, you can actually use an extended form that adds a sideways line and adds 4 more digit positions.
I really love this system, it’s so simple and intuitive! And the symbols look so cool!
Instead of thinking in up vs down, think of it as center vs outer
line outer, line inner, angle outer, angle inner, cap(or something).
5/50/500/5k - line outer & angle inner or 1 & 4 strokes.
that way mirror and revers are no loner an additional bran hurdle
I would totally take a linguistics in science fiction course.
Bah! None can compare to the Lord of the Languages! TOLKIEN FOREVER!
Numberphile did a video on this a while ago, I was pleasantly surprised you guys featured it.
Wasn’t expecting that learning this randomly three years ago would help me significantly when playing The Last Case of Benedict Fox.
Human number systems tend to bias towards base-10 systems (although, technically, Cistercian is base-10,000). This system has significant lost potential that you could use for many of the other modern number base systems in use today, or just for abbreviating extremely large numbers.
You could treat each line as a binary digit, and doing that, numbers 1 ( ꜒ ) and 2 ( ꜓ ) are the same, but then what would be the number 3 in standard Cistercian ( ᛚ ) now has a value of 4, and what would be 4 (ᚴ) is now 8. Stopping here, each quadrant could represent half of a byte (also known as a nibble) or a single hexadecimal numeral. This means that each full character would represent 2 bytes, 4 hex characters, or a single character in base-64.
If you add in that final line (value of 16), it becomes less useful for hexadecimal and bytes. but now each Cistercian character could now replace 2 base-64 characters. This means that this modified Cistercian system would be base-1,048,576.
After having a quick doodle, this glyph should be suitable for numbering systems up to about base 22. Which I think is cool, because then you can count up to over 200,000 with a single glyph. Though the extra derivations in each corner would make it more complex to read.
However, watching the next few seconds of the video and learning the syntax, I started over and got to 16 using only a single corner, which equates to base 17, which means the largest number the glyph could represent is 83,521 (if I got my math right).
Excellent choice of example numbers, whoever edited this.
def including this in some form in my next conlang.
Genius!!
More like this!!!!
Okay, that was freaking cool!
To help myself get it Ive been writing out rules for each number
1 = Out right angle, 2 = In right angle, 3 = Slant out>in, 4 = slant in>out
Thank you for giving me a weekend of entertainment
You guys are Legends
I am so going to use this as a puzzle in my D&D Group^^
Hey Jason and Brian I am from world HQ of TMZ Cobra. On the order of president Kardashian, I would give you a recommendation for teaching the recruits how to -
do workout like a badass.
fight of a gang like a boss.
What are police laws that you can use when police tries to arrest you.
How to get into doors like a firefighter.
How to save your car from thieves.
How to focus your brain on to something without drugs on something that you dont like
how to modify a bike or car with least resources for offroad.
How to jam a vehicle with electronic disengagers that stick and kills the engine for a while.
There is a wifi jammer watch out there and also a diy version that you can do on a micro-controller board named esp8266 or esp32, visit spacehunn github for that or check it on youtube.
A vlog of def con visit.
How to start a business of anything with nothing.
How to crack an interview.
Signing off, vive la TMZ cobra, vive la president kardashian.
This greatly reminds me of how base number numerical system works, especially in binary, but works with all base number numbers. Binary digits represent a single number in base-2, which is added to create the number, while in this numerical system, each line represents a single number as well, and so can be added to create larger numbers.
If they get onto tonal languages then they are going to have a lot to explore. Not just the drum thing mentioned at the ends, but also languages where the meaning of words change based on tone (like Chinese for example). There's also an island where the entire language is a series of different whistles.
Another lesson from the masters let's get it
The Cistercian numbers are very elegant, and they're perfect for use in a cipher system. The top 2 digits can be used to represent 1-26 (A-Z), and the bottom two, if flipped, can represent a second letter. So, one number can represent a two-letter pair. There are other tricks that can easily be used to add more security to the system.
Y'all should do a video about the Shavian alphabet. It's a really cool system for shortening what you write. It uses 40-something symbols to write phonemes for English; basically, the sounds that make up English.
Now we need an episode about the drums!
I learned this system a while ago, now I’m going to try to build a display based on it. (I know people have already done this, but I haven’t seen it or done it yet)
Thank´s 4 U video. It´s helped me to think about what it would be like after the number 9999. 👍🤟 From Colombia
I did this when I was a teen. I made my language using symbols representing english letters with different characters and sounds
This system is great for hiding tiny numbers in pixels, it only takes a 5x6 area to clearly label a number up to 9,999, or a 9x9 pixel area to label up to 99,999,999. This also lets you easily hide number cyphers in text by choosing specific common letters as terminals and having a word be your start key. If i could rely on mobile to post in the same format id give an example here, however im sure you can see the possibility for great secret keeping here.
This puppy will go into one of my games, thanks monks. Also Jason. I guess Brian for learning in realtime ?
A mountain range between France and Belgium? We really are through the looking glass! Interesting video though.
It takes practice and you have to kinda think of the 10s 100s and 1000s quadrants as the rows of beads on an abacus.
This didn't gel until the 3rd time trying to write 10 through 20. But now I've got this weird abacus in my head but with lines in quadrants.
Thanks guys I'm probably going to play with this till I'll have to stop and think how to use arabic numbers again.
Fun is going to be had thanks!
Lol, thumbs up for the 1337 and 8008 in the glyphs :D made me chuckle when i saw it
I was waiting for this lol
nice one with the numbers, 7:02
Definitely going to use this on my rpg campaigns and signing numbers on drawings
Thanks monks! Thmonks.
When you have to carve it in stone, you really want a simple system to represent large numbers
Brian, I would've been your friend just based on that cipher you made lol. You would've fit in with my friend group perfectly. We were obsessed with that kind of thing and memorized all kinds of ciphers and codes and would communicate in them because teachers could never effectively intercept and read them or anything.
The one we used most often was the Pigpen or Freemasonic cipher because it's so easy to use even if you aren't good at memorizing that sort of thing. As long as you can remember "AJSW" then you can decode it (and write it) relatovely quickly without a key, and even if you have to go through the whole alphabet each time you need a symbol it's still easy to memorize based on the four arrangements all 26 letters fit into.
The Rosicrucian Cipher is the same idea but slightly different.
Examples:
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasons_square_compasses.html
Honestly, every real Rogue should have a couple ciphers memorized, just in case.
You guys are are geniuses this is exactly what I need to learn thank you 👀🤖 213
I just finished Killer Candy and I thought it was fantastic
this system is kinda neat, a little bit of tweaking and it could write out hexadecimal into singular characters....... there might be potentials with a 3x2 grid, and the mirroring aspect could be a little problomatic if you were to add a middle row, which you might need to do, but, the value of the addition of one position to another could be changed to a more efficient system to get more values.
or go literal and have a hexagon as template
We decyphered the runes on Ozzy Osbourne albums back in the day and wrote notes to each other in them.
This system could be improved in a really easy but cool way. Get rid of the mirroring (it makes it needlessly hard to learn becuase a diagonal up in the upper right corner is 4 but then a diagonal up in the bottom right means 3). Also, maybe if you rotated it 90 degrees you could extend the line and keep adding increments of 10 to make any number you want.
My buddy. My guy. My man. Ohh ho ho. You have no idea what you have done here. Just wait.
@@Alpha-wh4vm umm okay I'll wait 😂
I learned this a few weeks ago, but didn't really because the explanation stank. This time I got it, I think. Thanks!
I'd love to see them do a video on Elian Script.
Between France and Belgium... this mountain range...... Ah, Americans. Bless.
oui, il y a une raison pour laquelle les Allemands sont passés par la Belgique
Ha I'm glad I'm not the only one who writes notes to myself.
Yeah same
7:01 nice number combos sequins xD
I have already using Galactic Standard Alphabet to write English, now thank you to give me a numeral system.
That talk at the intro about making languages makes we wanna have them try and learn about conlanging. Seems like a very nerdy and rogueish thing that they would be interested to learn about.
You should do a video on the pig pen Cypher, especially with its prominent use in alien movies
I feel like a modern remake of this by rotating a duplicate of this by 90 degrees could allow for numbers with more zeroes. Zero would be a cross, and the square segments on the left and right could represent more numbers, and if the _order_ of the segments were rearranged, then 1's would still be upper right, but each segment thereafter would be clockwise.
Are you familiar with dscript? I don't remember who made it, but it is an amazing alphabet substitution for English. It makes English look like Japanese.
Perfect. Another interesting thing to write on my notes and confuse my classmates with.
You should check out Kaktovik numbers that are base 20 and easy to do math with
this works well when combined with Elian script
can you tell how can we time the red lights and make our way to avoid stopping on red lights by preplanning the red lights to avoid standing. as they all are on individual time gap and if we can drive at a particular speed why not? we can make it happen.
I always liked to imagine a12 number system.. it divides and multiplies better while maintaining primary numbers so you know it would work
This is perfect for a D&D puzzle
9:20 "The Numbers Jason, WHAT DO THEY MEAN!?"
I don't think I've ever seen Squarespace marketed that way. S'pretty good.
Getting the "like" just for the Alien Nation reference. That was a fun show.
I have to say it: IT'S OVER 9000!
Joining the effort, please bring back the "Cause I'm a Modern Rooooogggguuuueeee" intro.
4:49 every computer scientist: "yes!"
I absolutely love Cullah! I hate that pandora doesn't have it.
That animation of the number system was great. Should’ve used a matte choke instead of a simple choke, though. Brandt.
why I oughtta! 🤚🤛
What if it’s above 9999?
Is it just 2 of those boxes side by side and it’s plus each other?
Or is it multiplied by each other?
not only are they to soon do a collab with numberphile, but also artifexian!
That’s so cool. The alien nation one looks cooler though.
I literally just learned about these like a week ago. o_O
I remember freaking out (and getting called a nerd) by my roommate by reading the clocks aboard the Destiny in Stargate: Universe.