When I was in the Marines in 1978 was issued a Remington 1911 45......it literally had a smooth bore.....most if not all the lands and grooves were worn right down to nothing....but it was shiny and clean and from 7 to 15 yards it hit the target with enough accuracy to qualify....of course out to 25 yards it was a little problematical and not as precise as one would like. The sear was pretty well worn also and we could only load 5 rounds at a time because there was a tendency for the pistols to fire automatically and although mine never did I did witness another Marine's go full auto at the range. Figured my pistol was either WWII or Korean War vintage maybe.
My main concern with firing a gun with a 'sewer pipe' bore isn't accuracy as much as elevated pressure, I always believed a rough bore would impede the bullet from smoothly exiting the bore, thus raising pressure.
Back in the 90's I acquired a Luger from a Vet and I got a small amount of WW2 ammo. Even by then the ammo was getting old but it cycled the ammo perfectly and I was pretty impressed with that Luger's performance with ammo that old!
This was a very interesting video and found it quite informative. One other item that can cause a jam is the magazine lips can get worn on older magazines. Your option of trying another magazine is spot on to remove that possibility.
Most feed and jamming issues I’ve fixed with a fresh Wolff re-spring kit for mag & recoil. These springs are at least 79-80 y/o so they weaken. And as long as it has decent rifling then it’s good in my book!
Great video, and the last detail to add on the feeding subject is the ramp on the barrel. If the ramp is not smooth the bullet can jam there before it gets high enough to feed into the chamber. Polish this area so that it is smooth and the tip of the bullet doesn’t catch. Small detail but important.
On the feeding or jamming problem, with a bore in that condition the chamber could be greatly fouled as well prohibiting the bullet from smoothly entering the chamber. Great video! Definitely not “bore-ing” 😂 Have a great day!
Great video Tom as are all of them. The only thing I could possibly add is the loss of pressure from the shot out bore causing your feeding issues as it would possibly cause a short stroke on the slide.
Decades ago I had a well-worn Remington Rand M1911A1 that shot basketball-sized groups at 15 yards. The barrel had a shiny bore but I noticed the lands were pretty shallow and rounded. I found a post-war, chrome-lined GI contract barrel at the gun show and installed it. Viola! It shot baseball-sized groups afterwards.
I’ve shot guns with ugly bores and they were great, shot guns with beautiful bores that shot terribly. Bores are important for value to collectors and I get it.
in a self loading gun the magazine is the gun. That magazine has to place a cartridge in exactly the right place in fractions of a second. And a body (cartridge) at rest wants to remain at rest. The magazine spring has to overcome that "rest'" and position the cartridge to properly feed in that fraction of a second.
I'd rather have a somewhat rough gun but an excellent bore. Mainly cause in part I want to shoot the gun. The collecting is one half of the equation being able to shoot the gun that has this history to it is what brings out that additional layer of fun. Unless you just cant ever get a ammo type then ya maybe I'd lean more looking for a nice looking gun over a bore.
Excellent video Tom! The only thing I'm sitting here afterwards thinking about is what the sewer pipe looked like after being fired? I've seen a couple that looked really nasty that ended up shooing just fine and while they'll never look great...sometimes a dark and even pitted bore can deliver the goods almost as well as a good barrel. Looking forward to your next informative video!
I have been collecting since the late 1960s. I have always been concerned with the bore because, I have always shot the guns in my collection whether they are antiques, reproductions, or 20th Century surplus. I only engage in target shooting from 25 yds to 200 yds. at my outdoor gun club. I will not be collecting anymore when my C&R FFL expires on 3-1-24 due to poor eyesight. I should sell my collection, but I cannot bear to part with it. It has brought me so much joy for the last 60 years.
Did you run a brass brush and then a jag with a cleaning patch thru the sewer pipe barrel before you shot it? Might have revealed some rifling and perhaps shot better as well.
Thank you, that was quite informative. I still love a 9 or 10 bore but I now have a much better understanding of this issue. I have enjoyed and learned so much from your presentations.
Rifle bores tend to wash out at the chamber. Competitively shot k31's will look good until you compare it to one that has hardly been shot. When the chamber washes out you get key holing.
Also it can by very dangerous to shoot barrels like that. If that barrel has rusted then the corrosion can reduce, in some cases not all, the diameter of the bore causing a pressure spike. That pressure spike could bulge or rupture the barrel damaging the gun and potentially you.
The powder looked different when fired from the worn barrel,like it was loose pressure allowing powder gases to escape forwards before the bullet leaves the barrel.😮
I have a Colt 1908 vest pocket hammerless that has a barrel that looks like 100 grit sand paper, but that old girl puts every round in the 10 ring a 7 yards. As long as the bullet gets enough twist, I don't think bore wear matters nearly as much as most think it does.
Interesting indeed! One question... Are you using a 115 grain or 124 grain 9mm cartridge? Trying to determine what is best for Lugers & P38s (what is best/appropriate for older pistols).
Thanks Johnelawson! I have tried both 115 FMJ & 124 FMJ in Lugers, P38s & other similarly aged firearms - I can't tell the deference (in terms of felt recoil or performance). I like shooting the old firearms but want to ensure that I am using a cartridge that is placing the least amount of stress on springs and bore... @@johnlawson2984
Hello, I have been shooting WW2 pistols for years, I have not babied these pistols like many do, These were built for war and they are not as fragile as many [ basement dwellers ] claim them to be.I always stick to factory ammo and never buy any ammo from a gun show.
Thanks, darrinrentruc... I appreciate your perspective & agree. To be honest, I use whatever is cheapest (114 or 124 FMJ). I'm just curious as to what others use.@@darrinrentruc6614
I know your not directing your question here but I can tell you a modern Glock pistol is not high end and can shoot over five thousand rounds with hardly any wear to the barrel.
Tom, Your "argument" regarding the Bore is ridiculous and insulting at best! A good scenario would be like buying a car that has been restored on the outside but the engine is barley running and saying it doesn't matter much because the car will still start. The KEY to accuracy beyond close distances is the condition and quality of the Bore. After a bullet starts tumbling, it will NOT perform as designed! How you can say people who are concerned (or as you state), obsessed over the Bore are unnecessarily concerned, is utterly ridiculous! Your "testing" of Randy at the Range is laughable! I have watched your channel for years now and have realized that while you sell many guns (you are basically a good salesman) you understand way less about what you sell than many of the collectors who buy them. Not necessarily a sin, but please don't imply that buyers should sort of disregard the Bore which is quite an important feature! IMHO you insulted the intelligence of many of your watchers and buyers on this one Tom! Defending a bad Bore is a BAD idea and misguiding to buyers! Would YOU buy a house that looks mint on the outside but is ridden with Termites inside the walls?
You missed the message behind this video....for a 'Collectable' the bore is much less important than it will be for a 'shooter' which has less collect-ability. My local gunshop & pawn took in a beat up Luger that was in very poor condition. Sewer pipe bore, no finish with some rust and a broken grip....and he gave the guy $50 for it and the fellow never came back for the gun. He showed it to me and as I'm not a collector was not interested in it for a shooter, but there were some stamps on it that I was not familiar with and suggested he contact a fellow who specialized in Lugers for an opinion. He shipped the gun and a couple days later received a catalogue in the mail from the guy with an enclosed note that he very much wanted the Luger he'd been sent and was willing to trade him even up for ANY pistol in his catalogue!! Turned out the Luger was a Kriegsmarine gun that had been assigned to a submarine and he had several collectors bidding on it as it would fill a void in their collections. Totally ruined bore...but VERY valuable to the right owner...so I get where Tom's coming from and hope you do also.
@@recoilrob324 Sir, first off thank you for the response. Sorry, but I do not agree at all. As both collector and shooter, condition is EVERYTHING to me (as well as to many others here). The ONLY reason I would ever purchased a gun with a sewer pipe bore is if it were something I absolutely had to have and it was the only one left in existence or it belonged to someone historically famous. I would then deem it the best I could get. Other than that, I have and never will purchase any gun with excuses. If you look at resales, "Junkers" and "Beaters" never bring top dollar, never were worthy examples to me and never exited me. I would rather spend more and get something I can be proud of. When it comes time to sell them, that's when everything pays off. The good stuff always commands top dollar and the beaters - NOPE!
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 78 | คู่เอก "ปกรณ์ vs ฟาบิโอ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LSOmgl0Th2c/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was in the Marines in 1978 was issued a Remington 1911 45......it literally had a smooth bore.....most if not all the lands and grooves were worn right down to nothing....but it was shiny and clean and from 7 to 15 yards it hit the target with enough accuracy to qualify....of course out to 25 yards it was a little problematical and not as precise as one would like. The sear was pretty well worn also and we could only load 5 rounds at a time because there was a tendency for the pistols to fire automatically and although mine never did I did witness another Marine's go full auto at the range. Figured my pistol was either WWII or Korean War vintage maybe.
My main concern with firing a gun with a 'sewer pipe' bore isn't accuracy as much as elevated pressure, I always believed a rough bore would impede the bullet from smoothly exiting the bore, thus raising pressure.
Back in the 90's I acquired a Luger from a Vet and I got a small amount of WW2 ammo. Even by then the ammo was getting old but it cycled the ammo perfectly and I was pretty impressed with that Luger's performance with ammo that old!
This was a very interesting video and found it quite informative. One other item that can cause a jam is the magazine lips can get worn on older magazines. Your option of trying another magazine is spot on to remove that possibility.
Most feed and jamming issues I’ve fixed with a fresh Wolff re-spring kit for mag & recoil. These springs are at least 79-80 y/o so they weaken.
And as long as it has decent rifling then it’s good in my book!
Great video, and the last detail to add on the feeding subject is the ramp on the barrel. If the ramp is not smooth the bullet can jam there before it gets high enough to feed into the chamber. Polish this area so that it is smooth and the tip of the bullet doesn’t catch. Small detail but important.
On the feeding or jamming problem, with a bore in that condition the chamber could be greatly fouled as well prohibiting the bullet from smoothly entering the chamber. Great video! Definitely not “bore-ing” 😂 Have a great day!
Great video Tom as are all of them. The only thing I could possibly add is the loss of pressure from the shot out bore causing your feeding issues as it would possibly cause a short stroke on the slide.
Decades ago I had a well-worn Remington Rand M1911A1 that shot basketball-sized groups at 15 yards. The barrel had a shiny bore but I noticed the lands were pretty shallow and rounded. I found a post-war, chrome-lined GI contract barrel at the gun show and installed it. Viola! It shot baseball-sized groups afterwards.
It would be interesting to see inside the poor bore after you shot it. To see a comparison. Really enjoy your channel.
I’ve shot guns with ugly bores and they were great, shot guns with beautiful bores that shot terribly. Bores are important for value to collectors and I get it.
in a self loading gun the magazine is the gun. That magazine has to place a cartridge in exactly the right place in fractions of a second. And a body (cartridge) at rest wants to remain at rest. The magazine spring has to overcome that "rest'" and position the cartridge to properly feed in that fraction of a second.
I'd rather have a mismatched gun with a good bore than a matching gun with a sewer pipe. Collectors may disagree.
I'd rather have a somewhat rough gun but an excellent bore. Mainly cause in part I want to shoot the gun. The collecting is one half of the equation being able to shoot the gun that has this history to it is what brings out that additional layer of fun. Unless you just cant ever get a ammo type then ya maybe I'd lean more looking for a nice looking gun over a bore.
Excellent video Tom! The only thing I'm sitting here afterwards thinking about is what the sewer pipe looked like after being fired? I've seen a couple that looked really nasty that ended up shooing just fine and while they'll never look great...sometimes a dark and even pitted bore can deliver the goods almost as well as a good barrel. Looking forward to your next informative video!
I have been collecting since the late 1960s. I have always been concerned with the bore because, I have always shot the guns in my collection whether they are antiques, reproductions, or 20th Century surplus. I only engage in target shooting from 25 yds to 200 yds.
at my outdoor gun club. I will not be collecting anymore when my C&R FFL expires on 3-1-24 due to poor eyesight. I should sell my collection, but I cannot bear to part with it. It has brought me so much joy for the last 60 years.
In the bore without rifling the bullet will not create enough pressure to cycle well..
Springs are fine. 🇵🇹
Did you run a brass brush and then a jag with a cleaning patch thru the sewer pipe barrel before you shot it? Might have revealed some rifling and perhaps shot better as well.
Hey Tom thanks for the tips on what to look for when grading a barrel.
Thank you, that was quite informative. I still love a 9 or 10 bore but I now have a much better understanding of this issue. I have enjoyed and learned so much from your presentations.
Excellent video your getting quite a few followers at my pistol club in the UK. Yes full bore live hand guns in the UK. Kep up the good work.
Good job Tom
Rifle bores tend to wash out at the chamber. Competitively shot k31's will look good until you compare it to one that has hardly been shot.
When the chamber washes out you get key holing.
Hello from Finland! Thank you for great videos.
Thanks Tom and Randy...🇺🇸
Also it can by very dangerous to shoot barrels like that. If that barrel has rusted then the corrosion can reduce, in some cases not all, the diameter of the bore causing a pressure spike. That pressure spike could bulge or rupture the barrel damaging the gun and potentially you.
Great video
Great episode !
Good morning Tom.
Thanks Randy!
The powder looked different when fired from the worn barrel,like it was loose pressure allowing powder gases to escape forwards before the bullet leaves the barrel.😮
Makes sense.
I have a Colt 1908 vest pocket hammerless that has a barrel that looks like 100 grit sand paper, but that old girl puts every round in the 10 ring a 7 yards. As long as the bullet gets enough twist, I don't think bore wear matters nearly as much as most think it does.
Respect ✊🏻
Thank you for the info
I the gun rifle or hand gun was used in battle and given the time of war I myself wouldn’t not pick per say it has history just my opinion .
I was hoping you were at the Forks of the Delaware show.
I was on a cruise. Next time !
The sewer pipe would worry me, I'd be afraid of bulging or blowing that terrible barrel.
I perused many of the comments searching for an answer to this question; what solvent would 'wash away' bluing, parkerizing, phosphate, etc. finishes?
Great video, as always! Could you define, for us non Englisch Speakers, what you mean by "bore". Thanks a lot, keep these great videos coming!
The inside of the barrel.
Thank you!@@LS1007
@@CoinShow You’re welcome!
Interesting indeed! One question... Are you using a 115 grain or 124 grain 9mm cartridge? Trying to determine what is best for Lugers & P38s (what is best/appropriate for older pistols).
Winchester white box 115 gr. Fmj works best for me.
Thanks Johnelawson! I have tried both 115 FMJ & 124 FMJ in Lugers, P38s & other similarly aged firearms - I can't tell the deference (in terms of felt recoil or performance). I like shooting the old firearms but want to ensure that I am using a cartridge that is placing the least amount of stress on springs and bore... @@johnlawson2984
Hello, I have been shooting WW2 pistols for years, I have not babied these pistols like many do, These were built for war and they are not as fragile as many [ basement dwellers ] claim them to be.I always stick to factory ammo and never buy any ammo from a gun show.
Thanks, darrinrentruc... I appreciate your perspective & agree. To be honest, I use whatever is cheapest (114 or 124 FMJ). I'm just curious as to what others use.@@darrinrentruc6614
Less important at close range than at longer ranges.
The gun is jamming because the bullet is to small vor this worn out barrel. Use .356 or .357 bullets then it cycle fine.
Tumbling bullets also lose velocity and penetrating power....
Please tell Randy to keep his will and health insurance paid up.
Dear Sir,
What would you say about the life of an average gun(not high-end) bore in other words how many rounds.
Regards,
Orhan BAYDAR/Turkey
I know your not directing your question here but I can tell you a modern Glock pistol is not high end and can shoot over five thousand rounds with hardly any wear to the barrel.
@@darrinrentruc6614thank you very much
Bore condition is everything! Not going to buy a sewer pipe. I'll pay for a bright & shiny bore.
If you're fine with bore wear, that's fine. Be you.
There’s no way that was 15 yards. Thanks for the video
I can go back and check. I was on vacation the day they did the shoot. Thanks
You may be confusing the difference between accuracy and precision.
Have to disagree, bore condition does affect the value especially when it comes to P08s and P38s.
Absolutely not especially with a pistol or collectable.
Tom, Your "argument" regarding the Bore is ridiculous and insulting at best! A good scenario would be like buying a car that has been restored on the outside but the engine is barley running and saying it doesn't matter much because the car will still start. The KEY to accuracy beyond close distances is the condition and quality of the Bore. After a bullet starts tumbling, it will NOT perform as designed! How you can say people who are concerned (or as you state), obsessed over the Bore are unnecessarily concerned, is utterly ridiculous! Your "testing" of Randy at the Range is laughable! I have watched your channel for years now and have realized that while you sell many guns (you are basically a good salesman) you understand way less about what you sell than many of the collectors who buy them. Not necessarily a sin, but please don't imply that buyers should sort of disregard the Bore which is quite an important feature! IMHO you insulted the intelligence of many of your watchers and buyers on this one Tom! Defending a bad Bore is a BAD idea and misguiding to buyers! Would YOU buy a house that looks mint on the outside but is ridden with Termites inside the walls?
You missed the message behind this video....for a 'Collectable' the bore is much less important than it will be for a 'shooter' which has less collect-ability. My local gunshop & pawn took in a beat up Luger that was in very poor condition. Sewer pipe bore, no finish with some rust and a broken grip....and he gave the guy $50 for it and the fellow never came back for the gun. He showed it to me and as I'm not a collector was not interested in it for a shooter, but there were some stamps on it that I was not familiar with and suggested he contact a fellow who specialized in Lugers for an opinion.
He shipped the gun and a couple days later received a catalogue in the mail from the guy with an enclosed note that he very much wanted the Luger he'd been sent and was willing to trade him even up for ANY pistol in his catalogue!! Turned out the Luger was a Kriegsmarine gun that had been assigned to a submarine and he had several collectors bidding on it as it would fill a void in their collections. Totally ruined bore...but VERY valuable to the right owner...so I get where Tom's coming from and hope you do also.
@@recoilrob324 Sir, first off thank you for the response. Sorry, but I do not agree at all. As both collector and shooter, condition is EVERYTHING to me (as well as to many others here). The ONLY reason I would ever purchased a gun with a sewer pipe bore is if it were something I absolutely had to have and it was the only one left in existence or it belonged to someone historically famous. I would then deem it the best I could get. Other than that, I have and never will purchase any gun with excuses. If you look at resales, "Junkers" and "Beaters" never bring top dollar, never were worthy examples to me and never exited me. I would rather spend more and get something I can be proud of. When it comes time to sell them, that's when everything pays off. The good stuff always commands top dollar and the beaters - NOPE!
These are collectibles
Not shooters
Paying for the type and markings
Bore shape has little to due with price
Yes, but you pay more for a gun in mint condition than for one in bad condition. Same for the bore. So a bore has to do with the price.
Not your best work. Sorry.
Boring!!!