Thanks for the great tutorial on doing isolation of the motor. I like to make sure everything is working well on DC before converting to DCC. I also like to use part of a track connector on the truck connections, that way you can easily remove the trucks for cleaning and lubing the gears without possibly having to desolder the wires. I also like using the plugs for the DCC decoder because I can take the decoder out and plug in the jumper to run straight DC as I have not converted my layout to DCC yet.
Larry… Thank you for being so easy to understand and thorough in your approach to teaching us novices. I’m new to DCC and have a host of different makes of engines. I have a few old Bluebox Athearn. I had a decoder I bought to have installed in an engine. I decided to try it myself. First try…it worked perfectly. I down loaded JMRI with an Arduino interface to fine tune the engine. Runs great. Working on lights next.
I am glad you found my videos helpful! I’ve always felt that most of this stuff is not all that difficult but many modelers are afraid to actually take the steps and get it done.
Thank you so much for this video. I have an Athearn Blue Box SW1500 in Conrail livery. I have had it for over 10 years and always wanted to convert it from dc to dcc. Now, thanks to your video I have the knowledge required to take on this task with confidence.
With this video, I was just now able to wire up my Athearn CNW GP50 and it works! Thank you for making this and now I feel more confident in my work. Plus now I can convert all my other athearn locomotives to dcc too.
It is very rare that you get to see video's about adding DCC to those types of locomotives. I loved it. I do have one small suggestion. When you solder the motor wires on take the clips off so you don't melt plastic.
I have to agree with captainbill here. Always take the clips off to solder wire onto them. Not only will you NOT melt the plastic, but when removed it will allow you some extra space for the actual soldering.
This is twice in one week you have provided critical information! I have an old SW2 I bought for next to nothing at an antique store. Didn't even know who made it. I cleaned it up as best I could but it never ran very well. Well now I know it's an Athearn and it looks exactly like yours inside. So with your help I took it apart and cleaned the trouble spots, and now it works great! No DCC for this one, though. It'll just run on my DC shelf layout. Thanks again, Larry.
Great video and a very clean install. The only thing I would recommend is to remove the Athern Brush covers before soldering on them. I have seen too many people melt the black plastic on the motor and then you can no longer clip it closed. If you overheat the copper brush cover it goes flying when the plastic melts. I'm not saying that I ever did that...
Great video....very informative. I am about to get back into HO and have some Blue Box engines I don't want to stop using...so this is perfect to bring them to the modern era. Also, I must say, I watched more than 3/4 of the video when I finally recognized the shell. The River Street Rambler! I grew up in Savannah and remember it running down River Street...great memories! Thanks!
Good eye. That model was one of two I did using the Athearn model and another using a LifeLike SW9 and I did them a few years before athearn released their ready to run version. I got the decals from the hobby shop on Savannah and she was enough kind enough to run a special batch with the gold instead of yellow letting. I wrote about that project in an article on RMC almost 20 years ago.
Very thorough, Larry! As some others have said here, there aren't too many GOOD Videos on DCC installation of older Locomotives, like the venerable Athearn Blue Box. I didn't even try one myself, because I wouldn't have been clear enough on everything a newer Guy would need. Unfortunately, there ARE a Few Guys who were convinced that they were the last word... I GOT it - because I've been doing DCC installs for 24 years, starting back in the "ugly days" when absolutely NOTHING was plug and play - and programming was a nightmare!! 😖😖 My concern wasn't that I thought the instructions given were STUPID, with gaps and vague points... I was more concerned for the beginners - looking for guidance in something that, to the Novice, might as well be Rocket Science! Judging by the Comments, many were left a bit bewildered. ONE Channel (name withheld) gave condescending retorts to the questions!!! 😠 So yeah, you're doing quite a service!!! 👍👍 You know, on BB Locos.... I've often ran into the issue of poor ground contact at the Truck pivot point. That's why I always solder my Track Feed wires, positive and negative - to BOTH Truck Side frames. You know, the Sheet Metal that the Axle Bushings ride on.... As it's all too easy to get too much heat on those Plates (and a Novice would definitely be pouring on the Heat, trying to get the Solder to melt and adhere to the Steel)... I solder the Decoder Leads to the Brass Rivets, that holds the Truck Frame together. It's quick, painless, and easy!! You just have to make sure that none of the wires foul the swivel area. It's a POSITIVE connection, and doesn't rely on the Pot Metal Chassis to carry Current! 😉 ..... I'm sorry! I always leave such LONG winded Comments!!! 😖 It's just that I'm pretty isolated here, but have a lot to share. I want my Decades of experience to go SOMEWHERE useful.... And maybe, my experience can augment YOUR Decades of experience, because you reach so many People! Many of which are trying to learn, while being inundated with misinformation that the Internet is all too good at! 😞 So Larry, you can take it or leave it. I just really want to pass my knowledge down to SOMEONE. And I really don't have a good Video presence!! 😜 Carmine ✈🚂🚙
Thanks Larry- your videos gave me the confidence to try installing Dcc with sound in two Blue box Athearn engine. I'm not that mechanically inclined, but I did tear down the trucks cleaned, greased and oiled the proper parts. The engines improved greatly. I used the Digitrax SHD166 decoders and they sound great. I even brought the Digitrax PR4 and downloaded the proper engine sound (U33 and GP 60). Thank you again your explanations are very helpful.
Thanks Larry! With you guidance I converted my first locomotive. An SW 7 that my Uncle gave to me thirty years ago. I even put in the LEDs you recommended. I did have some issues but I learned from them.
Excellent tutorial. You make it so simple and concise. It was kind of odd not to hear the locomotive. I've gotten use to all your locos having a sound decoder.
Greetings .So that's what my friend did to a few of my locomotives back in the mid 1990s Great Video and I would almost say that even back in mid 19 s locomotives did come DCC ready. I can't remember what the other color wires were for , that were not connected but most probably for application that a blue box Athearn loco had no purpose. I am thinking of getting back into the hobby. Great Inspirational video .Thank Yo so much.
Hi came across your channel today and have watched a couple on dcc and really enjoyed them so i have subscribed to your channel they are really great an informative on how to Mike (United Kingdom)
Great to see so many UK subscribers and viewers. I may just have to start a second UK channel just to show off my GWR models and how I will be building my GWR branch line shunting layout. So many of the current channels are BR era, especially diesels-Chadwick MR, Everard Junction, New Junction. Only the Mouldy Raspberry is in the steam era and it is BR era. I can’t find any pre-war GWR modeling channels. Lots of videos showing steam layouts at train shows but no modeling ones. I especially like the Much Murkle although Nick Wood seems to have peaked however I see he is still exhibiting the layout on occasion. What do you think, is there an audience for a 1930s GWR modeling channel? Would you guys be put off by a Yank telling you how to model the GWR?
Larry, this was a great video full of tips and tricks. That install went great. As always I learned some more about DCC decoder installs. Thanks for sharing. Ken
First, confirm that the "Train Engine" that you are going to work on is fully functional and operatable before you perform a DCC upgrade on it. There's nothing like completing the entire upgrade, and then finding out that the unit has a bad motor. It's typically much better to find the bad motor first, before performing the entire upgrade, and then finding out that the motor is bad. Double foam tape is an insulator, insulating the bottom of the motor from the chassis. No reason to be swapping electrical connection clips on top and bottom of the motor. The foam tape electrically isolates the motor by insulating the electrical connection.
Larry, thanks for this video. I watched it about six months ago and finally have some decoders to Install. Also, you mentioned Litchfield Station as a place to get items. I have been there twice in the last two days and mentioned to Jack about your shout-out. If anyone is in the Phoenix area he has plenty of items to assist you. 5% discount if you pay in cash.
Love your videos. I have made a very handy 3d printed mount for the decoders to sit atop the motor. Held in by the motor spring clip. I think this will help alot of installs. If you have a 3d printer I have the 3d files uploaded to thingyverse under athern blue box decoder mount. Or athern. Your welcome!
Saw the Bolt cutters and was wondering what they were going to be used for. What I do instead of using the frame pickup for the left rail I solder a wire to the metal side frame behind the plastic side frame on each truck and run the wires thru the frame. Another tip is to solder the motor feeds like you did but not while installed on the motor thst way you won't melt the plastic. Great how-to video on doing this install. Can't wait to see the LED light install.
All good suggestions, thanks for adding them. On a recent Athearn RS3 I worked on, the chassis pickup was to a screw set into it. I have also added pickups on the truck sideframes in the past since it bypasses the finicky contact at the truck bolster, but as long as you keep them clean this works too. The bolt cutters were just too big for the job at hand-couldn’t find my smaller set so just broke the uprights off as shown in the video.
You noticed that, did you! Yes, I found it before it disappeared among the dust bunnies on the floor and put it back in its hole. I actually filmed the whole process including that, but had to cut it as the video got longer and longer. It’s amazing how much time it takes to do this kind of thing in real time. It took me several hours to cut and paste all the various clips together into something halfway coherent-Larry
I like how you just did the swap of the motor contact strips, nice and simple. Also, I use a T-15 or T-20 Torx screwdriver to push out the motor mounts.
How do you know to connect the grey wire to the bottom motor clip? Is there Digi- Trax instructions to show what wires get connected to what polarity and shows what color wires go to what accessories? I.E. bells; horns, lights & whatnot. I'm new at this, don't know if I'll even have a chance to do any of this. But you sure do a good job of explaining things. And... your very Blessed to have a chance to do, Railroad Modeling. Do you have a video on how to install a newer more compatible motor for DCC? And or is there something you can install to make the older motors....safer and more compatible with a DCC system? Cause cost efficiency matters! Thank you, for your time and letting us enjoy your hobby with us. So many videos, so little time. So much Railroad Modeling so little time? "Labor" of enjoying a hobby! or something you enjoy!
Pay close attention to the lubrication and contact issues. On my LLGP7 the oil on the helical gear shaft had dried out and frozen the shaft so the motor would not turn at all. Took a while to free it up. Also check axle gear spacers as they are likely cracked.
Great help i have a few blue box locomotives i am converting them to dcc am from Northern Ireland so or hornbys locomotives have different moter so very helpful
Soldiering on the truck leads and other metal(the shiny metal) I remember as being a real pain. My solution was to drill a hole in the metal and install a brass screw, nut and washer. The brass washer was much easier to soldier onto.
Thanks for this really great video, it was very educational and the close-up shots were great! Question, one of my old Blue Box units is an Athearn F7 they labeled as "Super Power" (or something like that), basically a standard unit with a giant metal weight on it. I'm assuming there's no way to retain the weight after doing the decoder switch-out, don't think there's enough room for both the weight and decoder in there. But asking in case you know of anyone doing that!
I have an ABA set that must be 35 years old. The way I handled the weight problem was I cut the rear projection off the weight and that gave me room in the back of the locomotive for a decoder. Another option would be to put the decoders in a dummy B-unit between the two powered A-units and run wires between them. Works great if you run them permanently coupled. Plus there is room in the B-unit for a big enough speaker for one sound decoder to make enough noise for the whole consist.
I solder wires to the trucks for a direct connection so I don't have to rely on the frame to make good contact with the pads. Gets rid of that potential point of failure altogether and I don't have to care if it gets dirty there.
The worst are the F-units with those big cast weights that sit atop the motor and flywheels. I used to just run them ABA with the decoders in the dummy B-units.
As I look to launch into DCC your comment as to old motors current draw and poor DCC performance will cause me to consider which old engines will be converted. A video as to this subject would be most useful
When i soldered the wire to that motor brush clip i removed it to prevent the melting of the plastic and then solder it. . You can also buy new motor mounting pads to replace the broken ones. I like the idea of running a wire between the 2 truck metal tabs . I will do that next time.
Hi Larry. New to your channel. Love all of the informative videos. Question. I have a Blue Box SDP40F that I want to convert to DCC. I like the Soundtraxx decoders the best. To get the best operation should I upgrade the motor and the trucks? If so what would you recommend for them and the decoder? Thanks so much.
What do you do about coupler electrification with the frame mounted metal Kadee coupler? If you connect two locomotives together it can cause a dead short if they are not set the right direction in relation to each other. Do you have a video on coupler insulation on Athearn and others with electrified frames?
You are correct it can result in a short, same on Atlas S type switchers. Basically just install a KD coupler with the plastic shank to isolate the frames.
Like the video I do have one question I was always told to run a DC loco before I hard wire is this a hard and fast rule. Also what temp do you set your solder iron? Thanks
It is a good idea to run the loco for a half hour or so in each direction. This process helps seat the brushes and also smoothes out the gears. However on new locos made in the last 5 years or so I really have not seen any great difference. The problem with old locos that have been sitting in a box or on a shelf for 10-20 years is that corrosion can build up, oil and grease can congeal or dry out, metal can rust, and gears can split. In this model it was the oil and corrosion that was the problem. So if the model doesn’t run well suspect all these issues and give it a tuneup.
Without knowing more specifics all I can suggest is go back over your wiring since 99% of all problems can be found there. Make sure you properly isolated the motor from the frame. Also how did you connect the power pickup wire to the frame?
In have done several doc conversations on athearn blue box loco.for those of you who hate to solder try this. Attach dcc leads by slipping wire under the clips to the motor.dont loose the springs.when he clip is snapped back in place it will hold the wire firmly.i have locos running for 5 years with no trouble. Got the truck leads Lowe’s and Home Depot have female lugs that fit them perfect.just crimp the wire to the lug and slip it on.you may have to cut down the stem on the truck if it’s to long. The negative wire for the light can be installed by drilling a small hole to the frame of the loco.
What decoder would work best on a SD-40 SP Athearn for 2 way headlights and a gyro light? Then sound decoder for at least one speaker narrow enough for the SD-40 body? Thank you much! Were you a teacher in your first life? Too many DCC experts go too fast for me. I’m the Rip Van Winkle for DCC. I started HO Scale model railroading as a teenage mutant Railfan. Then hired out on the Santa Fe for 12” to the foot model railroading. It was hell on wheels after the Arab oil embargo in 1973. So I didn’t have much time to keep up with the new model technology. Now that I’m retired most clubs have made the switch to DCC. Plus I’d like to get my son back into it with some of his old 1980 era Athearn blue box locos. I bought him the SP 1984 LA Olympic SD-40 by Athearn back in 1984. So now I’m going to try installing a decoder. What decoder would work best for 2 way headlights and a gyro light? Then sound decoder for at least one speaker narrow enough for the SD-40 body?
Larry I have installed several decoders to most of my BB fleet. I have one in particular that is giving me fits and im hoping you can help me out. It has burned up 3 decoders. At first i thought the motor have have shorted internally, so i replaced it with an older grey steel case motor, still having the same problem. Next i went with replacing one truck that with a volt meter was getting continuity on both the left rail to the right rail, fried that decoder as well, I thought I had found the problem, when i put the engine on the tracks my system was showing overload, when I moved the engine it was getting sparks between the frame and the truck, so I naturally thought the truck needed to be isolated from the frame via fiber washers, there went the 3rd decoder. What am I missing here??? Great video btw,,excellent break down of a classic tried and true engine, the original Athearn Blue Box made in good ole USA.
This is one of those case where if I could see the chassis I would be able to tell right off what the problem is. First, test run it on DC before installing any more decoders. Also lose the old motor as it can pull 1 1/2 amps easy. My first thought was is one of the trucks on backwards? Other than that I am at a loss.
I have an old Athearn bb sw1500 SP switcher that this is the perfect video for me to follow and update my switcher. What size kapton tape did you use for this project ?
When you were cleaning the contact surfaces between the trucks and the frame you might want to try an electrical contact cleaner to help shine it up such as CRC or other electrical contact cleaner.
Any DCC decoder will work. The main difference comes among sound decoders but that is mainly due to differences in sounds and function options. Depending on the age of your model it may have a current hungry motor like mine and need the higher capacity decoder.
hi... great vid and explanation on how to update and old DC engine. I'm upgrading some of my old DC locos but i have a question. the decoder i have states that the red wire has to go to the right rail (+) and the black wire has to go to the left rail(-), but depending on how you position your loco on the layout the wheels and the body might pick up either + or -. how do you work this around? or is it just me asking a stupid question. thanks!
Good question. What they are saying is R&L rails relative to normal direction of travel. On most steam locos that is obvious,. But with diesels it can depend on which way the railroad operated them. From a practical point it doesn’t matter but when it comes to getting your forward headlight vs reverse light set up correctly it makes it easier to follow the red=right connection rule.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks! so the right and left rail is relative the engine forward position, meaning that for the headlight it doesn't matter if the right rail is + or - as long as the loco is pointing to its forward position the headlight will be always on (thinking on a F7)? Still thinking on a DC layout and wiring - Cheers
Watched your Video. I have same loco. Installing DCC was fairly straight forward. The lights are giving me a problem. Did not see what you did in video. When I connect the two legs with resistors to the blue lead and the front and rear to white and yellow, both lights come on at same time.(in reverse or forward). How did you connect your wires for the lights? I must be missing something simple but would appreciate your help. Thanks.
I am not an expert in soldering. But I was taught the stuff you solder to is held in place (motor, wires and such) and your hands manipulate the iron and the solder. Partly because the solder get melted, and you have to move the iron to and from the items being soldered. I love the video otherwise because it is instructional
This is one of those cases where theory pushes up against reality. I prefer to be able to do it that way but sometimes you have go with what works at the time in order to get things in a position that the camera can record.
How do you attach the black wire to the frame if there's no light hook up. I can't get the solder to stay.i be scratched it sanded it, drilled a small hole, not sure what ekes to do
I drill a hole in the frame and mount a self tapping screw. Then I solder the wire to the top of the screw head. LifeLike used to drill the hole and then used a plastic plug to hold the wire in.
I've watched these conversion videos like a religion! I have a sd40t-2 chassis and got the decoder installed but now it keeps short circuiting. I think maybe the trucks are touching the chassis... was going to get your opinion on it if you've ever had the same problem. I also wired up a total of 4 LEDs onto the shell. I'm not sure if that might be an issue that's causing the short circuit
You might have a short with these since they use the frame as part of the electrical path-did you isolate the motor by pinching down the bronze pickups on the bottom of the motor and lay down a strip of electrical tape? If that is not it then take a stepwise approach. First remove everything but the pickup wires to the trucks and connect the wires to the motor. If you still have a short then check to make sure your trucks are properly seated on the bolster pins. If that isn’t it I am not sure what else could be wrong.
@ Thankyou. I will give it a shot here after I get off work. I have done the steps to isolate the motor and have pickups on all the spots. I have kapton down in the area where the motor used to connect. I couldn't get the tabs pushed down I cut them off. My buddy might've put too much conductive lube on my trucks as well, im not sure if that would be a problem with it as well.
That suggests either the motor is shorting on the frame or a truck is. Those motors can to move in their rubber mounts so make sure to get good coverage between the frame and the bronze clip on the bottom of the motor.
@@TheDCCGuy I think I have figured out the problem. I was trying to save a buck and use the old motor mounts as I don't have any double sided foam, the motor is a little loose inside the chassis but if it's straightened out it runs like a champ!
I Just bought 2 Atheran engines and was wondering how easy it would be to convert them to dcc, seems pretty easy. Do I have to add the tape or can I still use the mounts on the motor as long as the contact isn't touching the frame?
You can use the mounts if they don’t fall apart coming out. I still put a layer of electrical tape on the frame just in case. I make cutouts for the mounts and it fits fine.
@@TheDCCGuy You can also buy the motor mounts Athearn has been using in their ready-to-run locos for a while now, (ebay), that mount to your motor and you install it with screws through the same holes at the bottom, makes for a solid installation.
can you just remove the metal clips to make the solder connection? It seems like that would make it a whole lot easier. That being said, this guide has made my life a lot easier, well it's made my model railroading a lot easier.
No, the metal clips hold the motor brush springs and the brushes in place and in firm contact with the motor armature. Or did you mean just remove them, solder the wire on, and then replace them? If the second case then yes.
In the past I used Mashima but they are now about $46 each. One option is to check with manufacturers like Athearn or Atlas to see if they offer replacements. I tried looking this up in the Walthers online catalog but got nowhere except pages of unrelated offerings. I recently saw a TH-cam video on Sam’s Trains channel about using inexpensive motors he got from China which actually seemed equal to the original Hornby motor so that might be worth looking at. th-cam.com/video/5S0nzcuOr-U/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the step by step. Could you have added a speaker to that decoder? I want to add some decoders to some blue box locos. I want to use soundtraxx. How would they be secured ? I have another question. I recently installed a soundtraxx decoder in a loco. Motor was isolated, all wiring was done correctly, unit was working then a little while later it wouldn't work, it was flashing a error code pointing to a motor fault. I replaced it with a brand new motor, same result. I tried resetting the decoder, no improvement. I removed all the wiring and the decoder, checked for shorts in the trucks, trucks to the wrong g side of the frame, can't find an problem, but end result is it shorted out the decoder but I don't know why.
I want to run my Athearn GPs long end forward and want to know if it is possible to exchange the trucks to accomplish this? I am running DC now but want to go to DCC in the future.
You don’t need to change anything except the direction button on your controller and presto they’ll be running long hood forward. Or have I misunderstood your question?
You need to watch my videos in consisting locos. When setting up you out the locos in the directions you want them to face and specify which way each is facing during the consisting process.
Hello again. I followed this video for my first install in a blue box. When it came for me to mount the speaker and capacitor, I had to mount them to the roof of the shell. Could I leave metal track pickups instead of cutting them off to allow a place to mount the speaker and capacitor? I'm doing two F7A's today. The last one was GP35 and after adding LED's it works great. Took some time to get all the wires in there. That leads to another question. Can I remove the wires that are not needed from the decoder?
Yes you can mount them on top these metal extensions, just be mindful of protecting from shorts. As for the extra wires I usually cut them back to about 1” long and cover the ends with heat shrink tubing to prevent shorts. That way if you ever need them they are still there and can be wired to.
Larry could u possible show how to install a lok sound decoder with a sugar cube speaker into a proto 2000 GP38-2. I have trouble trying to install into this one and get the best sound out of it
Take a look at video 70 as it is about as close to your question as I have done already. If you are not getting good sound then make sure the speaker is well sealed. Since you didn’t mention the brand I can’t offer any suggestions there but on mine I always run a bead of superglue or silicone around the point where the speaker joins the enclosure.
I don’t know how you get your solder to stick to those truck posts. I used 3 different types of flux, 2 different kinds of solder, and it still wouldn’t hold.
Hello, so I happen to have an Athearn switcher of the type you have from way back (90s') and have converted it to DCC with a LaisDcc decoder good for 2A. I ordered it last year and only put it in recently as per your video, and will be testing it shortly. If it doesn't go poof, I have several other loco's from the 90's I would like to convert. But, given the difference in motor quality from then to now, i would also like to switch the motors out. I want to do it on the cheap, but not too cheap, so I am looking at ordering some from China. That would be great if the quality is improved at least over what I have in there now, and with any luck, comparable to what's on the American market. Of course the fit is the main issue, and if you've had any experience is such an endeavor, your input would be greatly appreciated. The motors I have found so far are like 5 for $27, plus some on EBay. Thanks again!
I have not tried that as I converted most of my old stock years ago using Mashima can motors. I have seen one video by a TH-camr “Sam’s Trains” where he used an inexpensive Chinese motor to replace one in a Hornby that had failed. His initial experience was positive so it probably is worth a try. Many motors for our models are now made in China so what you get may actually be out of the same factory as an Atlas, Athearn, or other current models.
@@TheDCCGuy Ordinarily, if he's the guy I am thinking of, he pops up everywhere - now can't find the guy, but will keep looking. I have quite a few old Ahtearn's, and bought them back in the 90's at less than $20 each. Left the hobby for a while, and imagine my shock when returned and the price had shot up to $250 per., with DCC not making that big a difference. Oh, fired up the switcher - short, and figuring it out. Hope decoder is not shot. Will pull alarm if needed, which may be shortly. Cheers!
Sorry to hear about the short. I hope you tested it by trying to program it on the current limited service mode programming track as I have suggested many times.
@@TheDCCGuy Ah, no. And I forgot the programming mode on the Digitrax 210 is for just that., and there appears to have been a glitch or two. But I figured it out my friend. The bottom clip that hold the spring in was rubbing against a front like lip edge leading into the front wheel bay(?) I broke out my Dremel and a little filing did the trick - of course other problems showed (20 years in inactivity), so you can figure. Anyway it's an exciting task to install the decoder and watch it actually work! Thanks again!
@@TheDCCGuy Hello, I did get the switcher to work , and it was ok, except it sounds like a truck. I am pretty sure it is because of the way I had to stuff the wiring and decoder up in the shell. To get more room, I removed the cab part, and it runs good, but still noisy. I have 85% decided to convert the rest of the old fleet as well as I can. More as a lark than anything, and I will forgo using stock Athearn 5 pole replacements for some from either Ebay or China - no rush. I don't wan to put too much into them, visa, new Athearn/Walters, etc. I am leery of mixing new and old technology. the only thing that would be new would be the motor, so not to spend too much. Oh, and I did finally get around to building the first detector you design out of MR. It did not fire, so tomorrow I will get another, larger breadboard and try, try again. Then I may take a gander at the second one. Cheers!
I just started doing a blue box install and all the connections are right, but I am getting poor track pick ups. Any tips to get better connections? I believe my problem is the connection to the frame
On some I have drilled a hole in the chassis and inserted a screw. Since it is zamac a steel screw will self tap. Once the screw is installed I soldered a wire to the top of it and then ran that to the decoder. If the contact between the chassis and the truck bolster is wonky then you can solder a wire to the side of the truck frame and run it up to the decoder and bypass the chassis altogether.
Love your Educational videos ,that u put out ,ive have ho that is dcc ,but i have few other set that r O scale one g scale ,there dc about 10 year old Lionel ,g scale can it Will it be feasible to convert to DCC Just asking
Been avidly soaking up info from your videos, thanks; I have some old Hornby trains I would like to put encoders in with sound if possible. Is it any more difficult than this?
You could do that and just give them the same address. Or you could use a large enough decoder to cover the stall current of both motors wired in parallel. See my video no. 89 on measuring stall currents.
No, it seems no one is doing much of that anymore. Back in the 1990s at my club in N. NVa. we kept a bunch of Mashima can motors and flywheels on hand to remotor all the power hungry Athearns, etc. But once LikeLike came out with the efficient can motors in their Proto 2000 models the need to upgrade disappeared. I think that MicroMark sells replacement motors and A Line may also. Check the Walthers catalog online. I still have a couple Mashimas with flywheels set aside but haven’t done one in years.
First I would see if Athearn has an upgrade motor kit for this locomotive. If not then check NWSL to see what they have. If you are very handy with this kind of thing you can find all kinds of motors on ebay, but pay attention to shaft sizes or you’ll end up having to find compatible flywheels and connectors, etc. This used to be a lot easier but many modelers no longer seem interested in doing this kind of thing so the parts are rapidly disappearing from the Walthers catalog.
Did you test it on the programming track first or go straight to the main track? If on the main then you might have cooked it. See if it has a funky smell or burn holes in the wrapper. Some decoders are internally protected but many less expensive ones are not. Now assuming you got lucky you need to go back and recheck your wiring to see where your short is. Make sure to protect all splices with heat shrink tubing. That along with the video is about all I can do without being able to hold it in my hands and look it over.
@@TheDCCGuy I think I put it on the main first as I didn't have a program track set up at the time. I rechecked the wiring and ordered a new decoder. I guess we'll see what happens. Thank you, I appreciate your videos.
Depending on how log you have had the decoder it may be under warranty. Many manufacturers have a no-fault warranty for the first 90 days or so, you might want to check and save yourself a few $$$$.
Take a look at videos 35, 36, and 68. I am still chipping away at a 30 yr old 1 lb roll of 60:40 but am slowly switching to 63:37 and even a silver bearing type for some work. My solder contains rosin flux but for some big jobs I add a dab of rosin paste flux just in case.
When do we get to see how all those wires were shoehorned into the shell? Or is that footage not safe for public exhibition? Seriously though, how do you keep all of those wires in there from rubbing against the mechanism?
Careful placement. Sometimes I use tape to attach them to the shell and I also will add a styrene platform atop the motor and tape the wires to it to keep them out of harms way.
Most of the current production models come with DCC sound decoders as an option but I don’t know of many with just a mobile decoder. At any rate look at what is available and choose your fancy. re is an option between LokSound and SoundTraxx go with Soundtraxx as they are much easier for a newbie to use and understand the programming process.
Budget and sound don’t usually work out all that well especially if you are buying factory installed. The cheaper the decoder the fewer functions and options you may have. I purchased several of the Walthers F7’s with factory sound decoders. Unfortunately they only included the sounds for that loco and configuration. So the only horns on it are the twin single chimes but my railroad used Nathan M5s which are 5 chime horns. So be careful what you buy, especially bargain priced locos. I would not buy Bachmann unless it has a Soundtraxx or TCS decoder and then I would ask a lot questions. Certainly at this club you are joining they have someone who is knowledgable about DCC and decoders, ask around and look at what other members are running. Don’t jump in with both feet until you know the waters.
Sir, this may be a silly question. I ask apology. After installation, does it run on DC or need DCC commands, Controls, throttle, etc.?? Is it plug and play or need programing.
While it can be used on DC with a decoder performance is just not as good as with a plain DC loco, after all the intent is to use it with DCC. Plug and play usually means that you just plug the decoder into a socket and go which I obviously did not do however I think you may mean something different. While you can operate it as it comes there are a number of features that allow you to customize operation through programming it.
Yes, and as I explained in my article in MR on the GP7 I had to pull the trucks apart and scrub out all the old dried up grease after it sat for 15 years. And don’t forget the helical gears in the truck towers, and you’d better add a touch of light oil to the motor bearings.
Morning, I'm interested in getting a Ahearn blue point sealed. Is it worth buying it.... for about 70.00. In your opinion to use in a self switching layout. Thanks Jose
Those are likely to be problematic since older N-scale models were pretty poor performers. Once you get past about 2000 companies like started offering decoders made to fit specific models but before that you need it use their N and Z scale size decoders and be willing to cut out chunks of weight tog et them to fit. I tinkered with N-scale for about a year back then but finally came back to HO.
@@rrakling on iPad there’s a tiny down arrow just underneath the bottom right corner of the video image. Tap it and it should reveal the description. I think that arrow’s there on desktops as well.
Probably about 30AWG. I bought a bundle of the colored wires from Digitrax that they use on their decoders. You can order it from a Digitrax dealer and others like NCE and TCS may also offer bundles.
Ok, that means the system is not getting a response when it sends a programming sequence to the decoder. That could be due to a wiring error or a dead decoder-most likely the former. What DCC system are you using and have you programmed other decoders with it previously?
Boy that’s an open ended question. The easiest thing you can do is go to the SoundTraxx or TCS website and both have a lookup feature that will suggest certain of their decoders based on which loco you have. Digitrax and other manufacturers may also have this feature but I am not sure. In general the first consideration is does your loco have a DCC socket? If so then you need a decoder that will fit it. Then you also need to consider the size of the decoder and space in your loco. I have done a number of steam and diesel installation videos so watch them to get an idea of what is involved. It can be as easy and plug it in and go or a full hard wiring project. For someone new to the hobby or DCC the best option is to buy a loco with a factory installed decoder.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks so much! I brought my locomotive at a train show last year, it’s probably from the 70’s. I’m pretty good with my hands. I really want to try and do it. Thanks for all of your videos. I am very new to this.
Glad you enjoyed the video. My main goal was to show how to deal with the unique characteristics of the Athearn design. Adding sound would simply have required using a similar sound decoder and sticking a sugar cube in the cab, neither being difficult or unusual and there is plenty of room for both-Larry
Thanks for the great tutorial on doing isolation of the motor. I like to make sure everything is working well on DC before converting to DCC. I also like to use part of a track connector on the truck connections, that way you can easily remove the trucks for cleaning and lubing the gears without possibly having to desolder the wires. I also like using the plugs for the DCC decoder because I can take the decoder out and plug in the jumper to run straight DC as I have not converted my layout to DCC yet.
Larry… Thank you for being so easy to understand and thorough in your approach to teaching us novices. I’m new to DCC and have a host of different makes of engines. I have a few old Bluebox Athearn. I had a decoder I bought to have installed in an engine. I decided to try it myself. First try…it worked perfectly. I down loaded JMRI with an Arduino interface to fine tune the engine. Runs great. Working on lights next.
I am glad you found my videos helpful! I’ve always felt that most of this stuff is not all that difficult but many modelers are afraid to actually take the steps and get it done.
I wish there were more DCC install videos online. It makes it less scary to attempt this at home by yourself. Thanks for doing this.
I do repair and dcc videos to
Thank you so much for this video. I have an Athearn Blue Box SW1500 in Conrail livery. I have had it for over 10 years and always wanted to convert it from dc to dcc. Now, thanks to your video I have the knowledge required to take on this task with confidence.
With this video, I was just now able to wire up my Athearn CNW GP50 and it works! Thank you for making this and now I feel more confident in my work. Plus now I can convert all my other athearn locomotives to dcc too.
Great to hear!
Boy that sneaky Larry never though of swapping the motor clips! Brilliant!!!
It is very rare that you get to see video's about adding DCC to those types of locomotives. I loved it. I do have one small suggestion. When you solder the motor wires on take the clips off so you don't melt plastic.
Good tip, and one I sometimes have done.
I have to agree with captainbill here. Always take the clips off to solder wire onto them. Not only will you NOT melt the plastic, but when removed it will allow you some extra space for the actual soldering.
Exactly what I needed. Thank you. Learnt lots about the innards of a Blue Box I was not aware of!
Glad it was helpful!
This is twice in one week you have provided critical information! I have an old SW2 I bought for next to nothing at an antique store. Didn't even know who made it. I cleaned it up as best I could but it never ran very well. Well now I know it's an Athearn and it looks exactly like yours inside. So with your help I took it apart and cleaned the trouble spots, and now it works great! No DCC for this one, though. It'll just run on my DC shelf layout. Thanks again, Larry.
Great video and a very clean install. The only thing I would recommend is to remove the Athern Brush covers before soldering on them. I have seen too many people melt the black plastic on the motor and then you can no longer clip it closed. If you overheat the copper brush cover it goes flying when the plastic melts. I'm not saying that I ever did that...
Great video....very informative. I am about to get back into HO and have some Blue Box engines I don't want to stop using...so this is perfect to bring them to the modern era.
Also, I must say, I watched more than 3/4 of the video when I finally recognized the shell. The River Street Rambler! I grew up in Savannah and remember it running down River Street...great memories! Thanks!
Good eye. That model was one of two I did using the Athearn model and another using a LifeLike SW9 and I did them a few years before athearn released their ready to run version. I got the decals from the hobby shop on Savannah and she was enough kind enough to run a special batch with the gold instead of yellow letting. I wrote about that project in an article on RMC almost 20 years ago.
Very thorough, Larry!
As some others have said here, there aren't too many GOOD Videos on DCC installation of older Locomotives, like the venerable Athearn Blue Box. I didn't even try one myself, because I wouldn't have been clear enough on everything a newer Guy would need.
Unfortunately, there ARE a Few Guys who were convinced that they were the last word...
I GOT it - because I've been doing DCC installs for 24 years, starting back in the "ugly days" when absolutely NOTHING was plug and play - and programming was a nightmare!! 😖😖
My concern wasn't that I thought the instructions given were STUPID, with gaps and vague points...
I was more concerned for the beginners - looking for guidance in something that, to the Novice, might as well be Rocket Science!
Judging by the Comments, many were left a bit bewildered.
ONE Channel (name withheld) gave condescending retorts to the questions!!! 😠
So yeah, you're doing quite a service!!! 👍👍
You know, on BB Locos.... I've often ran into the issue of poor ground contact at the Truck pivot point.
That's why I always solder my Track Feed wires, positive and negative - to BOTH Truck Side frames. You know, the Sheet Metal that the Axle Bushings ride on....
As it's all too easy to get too much heat on those Plates (and a Novice would definitely be pouring on the Heat, trying to get the Solder to melt and adhere to the Steel)...
I solder the Decoder Leads to the Brass Rivets, that holds the Truck Frame together. It's quick, painless, and easy!! You just have to make sure that none of the wires foul the swivel area.
It's a POSITIVE connection, and doesn't rely on the Pot Metal Chassis to carry Current! 😉
..... I'm sorry! I always leave such LONG winded Comments!!! 😖 It's just that I'm pretty isolated here, but have a lot to share. I want my Decades of experience to go SOMEWHERE useful....
And maybe, my experience can augment YOUR Decades of experience, because you reach so many People! Many of which are trying to learn, while being inundated with misinformation that the Internet is all too good at! 😞
So Larry, you can take it or leave it. I just really want to pass my knowledge down to SOMEONE. And I really don't have a good Video presence!! 😜
Carmine ✈🚂🚙
Thank you sir! Have a sd40-2 b&n I bought in 1999. Still new in box until today. For sentimental reasons, going to detail it and do this.
Thanks Larry- your videos gave me the confidence to try installing Dcc with sound in two Blue box Athearn engine. I'm not that mechanically inclined, but I did tear down the trucks cleaned, greased and oiled the proper parts. The engines improved greatly. I used the Digitrax SHD166 decoders and they sound great. I even brought the Digitrax PR4 and downloaded the proper engine sound (U33 and GP 60). Thank you again your explanations are very helpful.
Thanks Larry! With you guidance I converted my first locomotive. An SW 7 that my Uncle gave to me thirty years ago. I even put in the LEDs you recommended. I did have some issues but I learned from them.
I've found it's best to remove the contact clips on the motor BEFORE soldering to them to avoid melting the plastic motor cradle.
Excellent tutorial. You make it so simple and concise. It was kind of odd not to hear the locomotive. I've gotten use to all your locos having a sound decoder.
I've got a bluebox sdp40f, and this video is definitely gonna help me convert the loco
I've done several blue boxes, but always interesting to learn a few new tricks.
great video I'm new to wiring up decoders and this was very helpful thank you
Greetings .So that's what my friend did to a few of my locomotives back in the mid 1990s Great Video and I would almost say that even back in mid 19 s locomotives did come DCC ready. I can't remember what the other color wires were for , that were not connected but most probably for application that a blue box Athearn loco had no purpose. I am thinking of getting back into the hobby. Great Inspirational video .Thank Yo so much.
Hi came across your channel today and have watched a couple on dcc and really enjoyed them so i have subscribed to your channel they are really great an informative on how to
Mike (United Kingdom)
Great to see so many UK subscribers and viewers. I may just have to start a second UK channel just to show off my GWR models and how I will be building my GWR branch line shunting layout. So many of the current channels are BR era, especially diesels-Chadwick MR, Everard Junction, New Junction. Only the Mouldy Raspberry is in the steam era and it is BR era. I can’t find any pre-war GWR modeling channels. Lots of videos showing steam layouts at train shows but no modeling ones. I especially like the Much Murkle although Nick Wood seems to have peaked however I see he is still exhibiting the layout on occasion. What do you think, is there an audience for a 1930s GWR modeling channel? Would you guys be put off by a Yank telling you how to model the GWR?
Larry, this was a great video full of tips and tricks. That install went great. As always I learned some more about DCC decoder installs. Thanks for sharing. Ken
First, confirm that the "Train Engine" that you are going to work on is fully functional and operatable before you perform a DCC upgrade on it. There's nothing like completing the entire upgrade, and then finding out that the unit has a bad motor.
It's typically much better to find the bad motor first, before performing the entire upgrade, and then finding out that the motor is bad.
Double foam tape is an insulator, insulating the bottom of the motor from the chassis. No reason to be swapping electrical connection clips on top and bottom of the motor. The foam tape electrically isolates the motor by insulating the electrical connection.
Larry, thanks for this video. I watched it about six months ago and finally have some decoders to Install.
Also, you mentioned Litchfield Station as a place to get items. I have been there twice in the last two days and mentioned to Jack about your shout-out. If anyone is in the Phoenix area he has plenty of items to assist you. 5% discount if you pay in cash.
Yes, I have been buying stuff from them for years, always a good reliable dealer.
@@TheDCCGuy Are you in the Phoenix area, or do you order online?
Far from it in NC. I get 99% of my model railroading stuff via the mail.
Love your videos. I have made a very handy 3d printed mount for the decoders to sit atop the motor. Held in by the motor spring clip. I think this will help alot of installs. If you have a 3d printer I have the 3d files uploaded to thingyverse under athern blue box decoder mount. Or athern. Your welcome!
I think I have a friend with a printer so I’ll take you up on the offer.
Thank You for your time & Contribution to the Hobby
Awesome! 🖨
Saw the Bolt cutters and was wondering what they were going to be used for. What I do instead of using the frame pickup for the left rail I solder a wire to the metal side frame behind the plastic side frame on each truck and run the wires thru the frame. Another tip is to solder the motor feeds like you did but not while installed on the motor thst way you won't melt the plastic. Great how-to video on doing this install. Can't wait to see the LED light install.
All good suggestions, thanks for adding them. On a recent Athearn RS3 I worked on, the chassis pickup was to a screw set into it. I have also added pickups on the truck sideframes in the past since it bypasses the finicky contact at the truck bolster, but as long as you keep them clean this works too. The bolt cutters were just too big for the job at hand-couldn’t find my smaller set so just broke the uprights off as shown in the video.
nice video Larry thank you i hope you found the brush spring that dislodged itself lol! cheers David and Jenny
You noticed that, did you! Yes, I found it before it disappeared among the dust bunnies on the floor and put it back in its hole. I actually filmed the whole process including that, but had to cut it as the video got longer and longer. It’s amazing how much time it takes to do this kind of thing in real time. It took me several hours to cut and paste all the various clips together into something halfway coherent-Larry
I like how you just did the swap of the motor contact strips, nice and simple. Also, I use a T-15 or T-20 Torx screwdriver to push out the motor mounts.
That’ll do it too. Just don’t try to pull them out with the motor or using pliers, those little nibs tend to break off.
Nice😀
How do you know to connect the grey wire to the bottom motor clip?
Is there Digi- Trax instructions to show what wires get connected to what polarity and shows what color wires go to what accessories? I.E. bells; horns, lights & whatnot.
I'm new at this, don't know if I'll even have a chance to do any of this. But you sure do a good job of explaining things.
And... your very Blessed to have a chance to do, Railroad Modeling.
Do you have a video on how to install a newer more compatible motor for DCC? And or is there something you can install to make the older motors....safer and more compatible with a DCC system?
Cause cost efficiency matters!
Thank you, for your time and letting us enjoy your hobby with us.
So many videos, so little time.
So much Railroad Modeling so little time? "Labor" of enjoying a hobby! or something you enjoy!
The wire colors on a decoder are an NMRA standard. In this case the orange wire goes to the positive motor terminal and the grey goes to the negative.
@Model Railroading thank you, have a wonderful day.
Very very helpful video! Thank you for posting!
Thanks Larry, I have a few Blue Box Athearn and Blue Box Life-Like that have never been out of the boxes yet.
Pay close attention to the lubrication and contact issues. On my LLGP7 the oil on the helical gear shaft had dried out and frozen the shaft so the motor would not turn at all. Took a while to free it up. Also check axle gear spacers as they are likely cracked.
@@TheDCCGuy Ok Thanks I will do that.
Very useful this video, I have 2 GEVO BB... thanks for share your know-how!
Thank You só much.I love Athearn locomotives ❤ 2:54
Great help i have a few blue box locomotives i am converting them to dcc am from Northern Ireland so or hornbys locomotives have different moter so very helpful
Helpful video. Got decoder working but only one LED. Disappointed the wiring for LEDs was skipped in the video.
I covered that in video #92.
Soldiering on the truck leads and other metal(the shiny metal) I remember as being a real pain.
My solution was to drill a hole in the metal and install a brass screw, nut and washer. The brass washer was much easier to soldier onto.
Thanks for this really great video, it was very educational and the close-up shots were great! Question, one of my old Blue Box units is an Athearn F7 they labeled as "Super Power" (or something like that), basically a standard unit with a giant metal weight on it. I'm assuming there's no way to retain the weight after doing the decoder switch-out, don't think there's enough room for both the weight and decoder in there. But asking in case you know of anyone doing that!
I have an ABA set that must be 35 years old. The way I handled the weight problem was I cut the rear projection off the weight and that gave me room in the back of the locomotive for a decoder. Another option would be to put the decoders in a dummy B-unit between the two powered A-units and run wires between them. Works great if you run them permanently coupled. Plus there is room in the B-unit for a big enough speaker for one sound decoder to make enough noise for the whole consist.
Thank you, those are both great ideas! I hadn't thought about modifying the weight to remove that rear piece and getting that space back.
I solder wires to the trucks for a direct connection so I don't have to rely on the frame to make good contact with the pads. Gets rid of that potential point of failure altogether and I don't have to care if it gets dirty there.
Thank you Larry, this video will be a big help.
Great video, I have three Athearn blue box locomotives that need DCC installed, new units just old stocks
The worst are the F-units with those big cast weights that sit atop the motor and flywheels. I used to just run them ABA with the decoders in the dummy B-units.
As I look to launch into DCC your comment as to old motors current draw and poor DCC performance will cause me to consider which old engines will be converted. A video as to this subject would be most useful
When i soldered the wire to that motor brush clip i removed it to prevent the melting of the plastic and then solder it. . You can also buy new motor mounting pads to replace the broken ones. I like the idea of running a wire between the 2 truck metal tabs . I will do that next time.
Great video Larry, A couple of observations Im a Hakko user as well, What was the bolt cutters used for?
Hi Larry. New to your channel. Love all of the informative videos. Question. I have a Blue Box SDP40F that I want to convert to DCC. I like the Soundtraxx decoders the best. To get the best operation should I upgrade the motor and the trucks? If so what would you recommend for them and the decoder? Thanks so much.
What do you do about coupler electrification with the frame mounted metal Kadee coupler? If you connect two locomotives together it can cause a dead short if they are not set the right direction in relation to each other. Do you have a video on coupler insulation on Athearn and others with electrified frames?
You are correct it can result in a short, same on Atlas S type switchers. Basically just install a KD coupler with the plastic shank to isolate the frames.
Haven't watched the full video yet, looks like you can put a RTR mainboard on that and put in a plug in decoder.
Yes, you could probably sit one right on top of the motor.
Like the video I do have one question I was always told to run a DC loco before I hard wire is this a hard and fast rule. Also what temp do you set your solder iron? Thanks
It is a good idea to run the loco for a half hour or so in each direction. This process helps seat the brushes and also smoothes out the gears. However on new locos made in the last 5 years or so I really have not seen any great difference. The problem with old locos that have been sitting in a box or on a shelf for 10-20 years is that corrosion can build up, oil and grease can congeal or dry out, metal can rust, and gears can split. In this model it was the oil and corrosion that was the problem. So if the model doesn’t run well suspect all these issues and give it a tuneup.
I installed 3 digitrax Dec. On athern blue box engines none off them work. Can you help. I watch your videos all the time.
John
Without knowing more specifics all I can suggest is go back over your wiring since 99% of all problems can be found there. Make sure you properly isolated the motor from the frame. Also how did you connect the power pickup wire to the frame?
@TheDCCGuy john I followed your instructions motor is isolated
Hi again Larry, I decided to go for the DH142 decoder BUUUT....they're no longer available!!?? What would be best for my relics?? Thanks Again, Ed
In have done several doc conversations on athearn blue box loco.for those of you who hate to solder try this. Attach dcc leads by slipping wire under the clips to the motor.dont loose the springs.when he clip is snapped back in place it will hold the wire firmly.i have locos running for 5 years with no trouble. Got the truck leads Lowe’s and Home Depot have female lugs that fit them perfect.just crimp the wire to the lug and slip it on.you may have to cut down the stem on the truck if it’s to long. The negative wire for the light can be installed by drilling a small hole to the frame of the loco.
What decoder would work best on a SD-40 SP Athearn for 2 way headlights and a gyro light? Then
sound decoder for at least one
speaker narrow enough for the SD-40 body?
Thank you much! Were you a teacher in your first life? Too many DCC experts go too fast for me. I’m the Rip Van Winkle for DCC. I started HO Scale model railroading as a teenage mutant Railfan. Then hired out on the Santa Fe for 12” to the foot model railroading. It was hell on wheels after the Arab oil embargo in 1973. So I didn’t have much time to keep up with the new model technology. Now that I’m retired most clubs have made the switch to DCC. Plus I’d like to get my son back into it with some of his old 1980 era Athearn blue box locos.
I bought him the SP 1984 LA Olympic SD-40 by Athearn back in 1984. So now I’m going to try installing a decoder.
What decoder would work best for 2 way headlights and a gyro light? Then sound decoder for at least one speaker narrow enough for the SD-40 body?
Larry I have installed several decoders to most of my BB fleet. I have one in particular that is giving me fits and im hoping you can help me out. It has burned up 3 decoders. At first i thought the motor have have shorted internally, so i replaced it with an older grey steel case motor, still having the same problem. Next i went with replacing one truck that with a volt meter was getting continuity on both the left rail to the right rail, fried that decoder as well, I thought I had found the problem, when i put the engine on the tracks my system was showing overload, when I moved the engine it was getting sparks between the frame and the truck, so I naturally thought the truck needed to be isolated from the frame via fiber washers, there went the 3rd decoder. What am I missing here??? Great video btw,,excellent break down of a classic tried and true engine, the original Athearn Blue Box made in good ole USA.
This is one of those case where if I could see the chassis I would be able to tell right off what the problem is. First, test run it on DC before installing any more decoders. Also lose the old motor as it can pull 1 1/2 amps easy. My first thought was is one of the trucks on backwards? Other than that I am at a loss.
I have an old Athearn bb sw1500 SP switcher that this is the perfect video for me to follow and update my switcher. What size kapton tape did you use for this project ?
When you were cleaning the contact surfaces between the trucks and the frame you might want to try an electrical contact cleaner to help shine it up such as CRC or other electrical contact cleaner.
That would work too although in this case I think a little mechanical elbow grease helped remove the buildup.
Great project I have a Athearn BB GP9 so these same steps work? Would any decoder work as well not sure which DCC system I will install yet. Thanks
Any DCC decoder will work. The main difference comes among sound decoders but that is mainly due to differences in sounds and function options. Depending on the age of your model it may have a current hungry motor like mine and need the higher capacity decoder.
One more question what guage wire would you recommend I use to connect the motor to the track pick up on the trucks, thanks
hi... great vid and explanation on how to update and old DC engine. I'm upgrading some of my old DC locos but i have a question. the decoder i have states that the red wire has to go to the right rail (+) and the black wire has to go to the left rail(-), but depending on how you position your loco on the layout the wheels and the body might pick up either + or -. how do you work this around? or is it just me asking a stupid question. thanks!
Good question. What they are saying is R&L rails relative to normal direction of travel. On most steam locos that is obvious,. But with diesels it can depend on which way the railroad operated them. From a practical point it doesn’t matter but when it comes to getting your forward headlight vs reverse light set up correctly it makes it easier to follow the red=right connection rule.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks! so the right and left rail is relative the engine forward position, meaning that for the headlight it doesn't matter if the right rail is + or - as long as the loco is pointing to its forward position the headlight will be always on (thinking on a F7)? Still thinking on a DC layout and wiring - Cheers
Watched your Video. I have same loco. Installing DCC was fairly straight forward. The lights are giving me a problem. Did not see what you did in video. When I connect the two legs with resistors to the blue lead and the front and rear to white and yellow, both lights come on at same time.(in reverse or forward). How did you connect your wires for the lights? I must be missing something simple but would appreciate your help.
Thanks.
The fact that they both light up tells me the polarities are ok. Check the decoder to see if it is programmed to have both lights on all the time.
I am not an expert in soldering. But I was taught the stuff you solder to is held in place (motor, wires and such) and your hands manipulate the iron and the solder. Partly because the solder get melted, and you have to move the iron to and from the items being soldered. I love the video otherwise because it is instructional
This is one of those cases where theory pushes up against reality. I prefer to be able to do it that way but sometimes you have go with what works at the time in order to get things in a position that the camera can record.
How do you attach the black wire to the frame if there's no light hook up. I can't get the solder to stay.i be scratched it sanded it, drilled a small hole, not sure what ekes to do
I drill a hole in the frame and mount a self tapping screw. Then I solder the wire to the top of the screw head. LifeLike used to drill the hole and then used a plastic plug to hold the wire in.
Great video. How do those light look for a steam locomotive or do you have a better recommendation? Thanks.
I use the small surface mount LEDs that are available prewired with a resistor on one wire. Easily found on eBay from China.
@@TheDCCGuy I saw that just wondering if they looked too white or not. Thanks.
I've watched these conversion videos like a religion! I have a sd40t-2 chassis and got the decoder installed but now it keeps short circuiting. I think maybe the trucks are touching the chassis... was going to get your opinion on it if you've ever had the same problem. I also wired up a total of 4 LEDs onto the shell. I'm not sure if that might be an issue that's causing the short circuit
You might have a short with these since they use the frame as part of the electrical path-did you isolate the motor by pinching down the bronze pickups on the bottom of the motor and lay down a strip of electrical tape? If that is not it then take a stepwise approach. First remove everything but the pickup wires to the trucks and connect the wires to the motor. If you still have a short then check to make sure your trucks are properly seated on the bolster pins. If that isn’t it I am not sure what else could be wrong.
@ Thankyou. I will give it a shot here after I get off work. I have done the steps to isolate the motor and have pickups on all the spots. I have kapton down in the area where the motor used to connect. I couldn't get the tabs pushed down I cut them off. My buddy might've put too much conductive lube on my trucks as well, im not sure if that would be a problem with it as well.
@@TheDCCGuy the crazy thing is about all this is that it'll run for a few seconds but once it hits a bump on my layout it seems to short.
That suggests either the motor is shorting on the frame or a truck is. Those motors can to move in their rubber mounts so make sure to get good coverage between the frame and the bronze clip on the bottom of the motor.
@@TheDCCGuy I think I have figured out the problem. I was trying to save a buck and use the old motor mounts as I don't have any double sided foam, the motor is a little loose inside the chassis but if it's straightened out it runs like a champ!
I Just bought 2 Atheran engines and was wondering how easy it would be to convert them to dcc, seems pretty easy. Do I have to add the tape or can I still use the mounts on the motor as long as the contact isn't touching the frame?
You can use the mounts if they don’t fall apart coming out. I still put a layer of electrical tape on the frame just in case. I make cutouts for the mounts and it fits fine.
@@TheDCCGuy You can also buy the motor mounts Athearn has been using in their ready-to-run locos for a while now, (ebay), that mount to your motor and you install it with screws through the same holes at the bottom, makes for a solid installation.
can you just remove the metal clips to make the solder connection? It seems like that would make it a whole lot easier. That being said, this guide has made my life a lot easier, well it's made my model railroading a lot easier.
No, the metal clips hold the motor brush springs and the brushes in place and in firm contact with the motor armature. Or did you mean just remove them, solder the wire on, and then replace them? If the second case then yes.
I need to know how to go from DCC to DC on some of my locomotives where the DCC has shorted out?
Were these factory installed decoders or after market? What kind of decoders and locos?
What motor would you use as a replacement for better locomotive movement? THANK YOU.
In the past I used Mashima but they are now about $46 each. One option is to check with manufacturers like Athearn or Atlas to see if they offer replacements. I tried looking this up in the Walthers online catalog but got nowhere except pages of unrelated offerings. I recently saw a TH-cam video on Sam’s Trains channel about using inexpensive motors he got from China which actually seemed equal to the original Hornby motor so that might be worth looking at. th-cam.com/video/5S0nzcuOr-U/w-d-xo.html
@@TheDCCGuy THANK YOU for your help. You are a fantastic resource for DCC information.
Thanks for the step by step. Could you have added a speaker to that decoder? I want to add some decoders to some blue box locos. I want to use soundtraxx. How would they be secured ? I have another question. I recently installed a soundtraxx decoder in a loco. Motor was isolated, all wiring was done correctly, unit was working then a little while later it wouldn't work, it was flashing a error code pointing to a motor fault. I replaced it with a brand new motor, same result. I tried resetting the decoder, no improvement. I removed all the wiring and the decoder, checked for shorts in the trucks, trucks to the wrong g side of the frame, can't find an problem, but end result is it shorted out the decoder but I don't know why.
I did that in video 194.
I want to run my Athearn GPs long end forward and want to know if it is possible to exchange the trucks to accomplish this? I am running DC now but want to go to DCC in the future.
You don’t need to change anything except the direction button on your controller and presto they’ll be running long hood forward. Or have I misunderstood your question?
I'm planning on doing some consisting with some of these units short ends together is my problem
You need to watch my videos in consisting locos. When setting up you out the locos in the directions you want them to face and specify which way each is facing during the consisting process.
Hello again. I followed this video for my first install in a blue box. When it came for me to mount the speaker and capacitor, I had to mount them to the roof of the shell.
Could I leave metal track pickups instead of cutting them off to allow a place to mount the speaker and capacitor? I'm doing two F7A's today. The last one was GP35 and after adding LED's it works great. Took some time to get all the wires in there.
That leads to another question. Can I remove the wires that are not needed from the decoder?
Yes you can mount them on top these metal extensions, just be mindful of protecting from shorts. As for the extra wires I usually cut them back to about 1” long and cover the ends with heat shrink tubing to prevent shorts. That way if you ever need them they are still there and can be wired to.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks. I will make sure to protect from shorts.
Larry could u possible show how to install a lok sound decoder with a sugar cube speaker into a proto 2000 GP38-2. I have trouble trying to install into this one and get the best sound out of it
Take a look at video 70 as it is about as close to your question as I have done already. If you are not getting good sound then make sure the speaker is well sealed. Since you didn’t mention the brand I can’t offer any suggestions there but on mine I always run a bead of superglue or silicone around the point where the speaker joins the enclosure.
I don’t know how you get your solder to stick to those truck posts. I used 3 different types of flux, 2 different kinds of solder, and it still wouldn’t hold.
Try filing and sanding it first.
Hello, so I happen to have an Athearn switcher of the type you have from way back (90s') and have converted it to DCC with a LaisDcc decoder good for 2A. I ordered it last year and only put it in recently as per your video, and will be testing it shortly. If it doesn't go poof, I have several other loco's from the 90's I would like to convert. But, given the difference in motor quality from then to now, i would also like to switch the motors out. I want to do it on the cheap, but not too cheap, so I am looking at ordering some from China. That would be great if the quality is improved at least over what I have in there now, and with any luck, comparable to what's on the American market. Of course the fit is the main issue, and if you've had any experience is such an endeavor, your input would be greatly appreciated. The motors I have found so far are like 5 for $27, plus some on EBay. Thanks again!
I have not tried that as I converted most of my old stock years ago using Mashima can motors. I have seen one video by a TH-camr “Sam’s Trains” where he used an inexpensive Chinese motor to replace one in a Hornby that had failed. His initial experience was positive so it probably is worth a try. Many motors for our models are now made in China so what you get may actually be out of the same factory as an Atlas, Athearn, or other current models.
@@TheDCCGuy Ordinarily, if he's the guy I am thinking of, he pops up everywhere - now can't find the guy, but will keep looking. I have quite a few old Ahtearn's, and bought them back in the 90's at less than $20 each. Left the hobby for a while, and imagine my shock when returned and the price had shot up to $250 per., with DCC not making that big a difference. Oh, fired up the switcher - short, and figuring it out. Hope decoder is not shot. Will pull alarm if needed, which may be shortly. Cheers!
Sorry to hear about the short. I hope you tested it by trying to program it on the current limited service mode programming track as I have suggested many times.
@@TheDCCGuy Ah, no. And I forgot the programming mode on the Digitrax 210 is for just that., and there appears to have been a glitch or two. But I figured it out my friend. The bottom clip that hold the spring in was rubbing against a front like lip edge leading into the front wheel bay(?) I broke out my Dremel and a little filing did the trick - of course other problems showed (20 years in inactivity), so you can figure. Anyway it's an exciting task to install the decoder and watch it actually work! Thanks again!
@@TheDCCGuy Hello, I did get the switcher to work , and it was ok, except it sounds like a truck. I am pretty sure it is because of the way I had to stuff the wiring and decoder up in the shell. To get more room, I removed the cab part, and it runs good, but still noisy. I have 85% decided to convert the rest of the old fleet as well as I can. More as a lark than anything, and I will forgo using stock Athearn 5 pole replacements for some from either Ebay or China - no rush. I don't wan to put too much into them, visa, new Athearn/Walters, etc. I am leery of mixing new and old technology. the only thing that would be new would be the motor, so not to spend too much.
Oh, and I did finally get around to building the first detector you design out of MR. It did not fire, so tomorrow I will get another, larger breadboard and try, try again. Then I may take a gander at the second one. Cheers!
Did you find it to be somewhat quieter while it ran on the track?
I just started doing a blue box install and all the connections are right, but I am getting poor track pick ups. Any tips to get better connections? I believe my problem is the connection to the frame
On some I have drilled a hole in the chassis and inserted a screw. Since it is zamac a steel screw will self tap. Once the screw is installed I soldered a wire to the top of it and then ran that to the decoder. If the contact between the chassis and the truck bolster is wonky then you can solder a wire to the side of the truck frame and run it up to the decoder and bypass the chassis altogether.
Love your Educational videos ,that u put out ,ive have ho that is dcc ,but i have few other set that r O scale one g scale ,there dc about 10 year old Lionel ,g scale can it Will it be feasible to convert to DCC Just asking
All those should be doable since most manufacturers make high amp decoders.
Been avidly soaking up info from your videos, thanks; I have some old Hornby trains I would like to put encoders in with sound if possible. Is it any more difficult than this?
Not really, you just have to shoehorn in a speaker. I’ll have a video up soon on adding DCC sound to a 20 year old Hornby West Country Class pacific.
@@TheDCCGuy having pondered, wondering if trackside speakers could be triggered to produce sounds relative to nearby trains
Try using a mother board and plug in a 21 pin decoder. A lot less wires, and a lot neater installation.
Yes, I’ve done several videos on using the Decoder Buddy boards for installing 21 pin decoders.
I have a couple DD40’s that I want to set up with DCC. Scents they have two motors would I use two decoders?
You could do that and just give them the same address. Or you could use a large enough decoder to cover the stall current of both motors wired in parallel. See my video no. 89 on measuring stall currents.
Do you have a video describing more about motors? Best motor. Flywheel vrs none flywheel
No, it seems no one is doing much of that anymore. Back in the 1990s at my club in N. NVa. we kept a bunch of Mashima can motors and flywheels on hand to remotor all the power hungry Athearns, etc. But once LikeLike came out with the efficient can motors in their Proto 2000 models the need to upgrade disappeared. I think that MicroMark sells replacement motors and A Line may also. Check the Walthers catalog online. I still have a couple Mashimas with flywheels set aside but haven’t done one in years.
I want to replace motor on sw1500, blue box switcher can you recommend a place to buy. I want to go 2mp to 1amp
First I would see if Athearn has an upgrade motor kit for this locomotive. If not then check NWSL to see what they have. If you are very handy with this kind of thing you can find all kinds of motors on ebay, but pay attention to shaft sizes or you’ll end up having to find compatible flywheels and connectors, etc. This used to be a lot easier but many modelers no longer seem interested in doing this kind of thing so the parts are rapidly disappearing from the Walthers catalog.
These are Great Train motor's !!
I installed a decoder while watching your video exactly how you did it. When I put it on the track I get a overload message, can you help with this?
Did you test it on the programming track first or go straight to the main track? If on the main then you might have cooked it. See if it has a funky smell or burn holes in the wrapper. Some decoders are internally protected but many less expensive ones are not.
Now assuming you got lucky you need to go back and recheck your wiring to see where your short is. Make sure to protect all splices with heat shrink tubing. That along with the video is about all I can do without being able to hold it in my hands and look it over.
@@TheDCCGuy I think I put it on the main first as I didn't have a program track set up at the time. I rechecked the wiring and ordered a new decoder. I guess we'll see what happens. Thank you, I appreciate your videos.
Depending on how log you have had the decoder it may be under warranty. Many manufacturers have a no-fault warranty for the first 90 days or so, you might want to check and save yourself a few $$$$.
I would like to see an AHM DCC conversion since I have an S-2 switcher I would like to convert to DCC
Not likely, I’ve never even seen one!
Excellent! Very straight forward tutorial (and quite relaxing to watch, if I do say so myself!). What kind of solder and flux are you using?
Take a look at videos 35, 36, and 68. I am still chipping away at a 30 yr old 1 lb roll of 60:40 but am slowly switching to 63:37 and even a silver bearing type for some work. My solder contains rosin flux but for some big jobs I add a dab of rosin paste flux just in case.
Can a decoder from a Proto 2000 be used in a Athearn? Or are decoders programmed for a specific brand only?
As long as they fit they should work in any locomotive.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you
When do we get to see how all those wires were shoehorned into the shell? Or is that footage not safe for public exhibition? Seriously though, how do you keep all of those wires in there from rubbing against the mechanism?
Careful placement. Sometimes I use tape to attach them to the shell and I also will add a styrene platform atop the motor and tape the wires to it to keep them out of harms way.
I can't find a DH142 anywhere online, would a DH166 work?
DH142s are long discontinued but I think the DH166 has the same current rating so it should work.
@@TheDCCGuy alright, thanks for the info!
I am joining a ho scale club, and I need a Dcc locomotive, what would be a good loco to buy?
Most of the current production models come with DCC sound decoders as an option but I don’t know of many with just a mobile decoder. At any rate look at what is available and choose your fancy. re is an option between LokSound and SoundTraxx go with Soundtraxx as they are much easier for a newbie to use and understand the programming process.
Is there a budget FCC and sound locomotive? Or I could just go to a swap meet.
Budget and sound don’t usually work out all that well especially if you are buying factory installed. The cheaper the decoder the fewer functions and options you may have. I purchased several of the Walthers F7’s with factory sound decoders. Unfortunately they only included the sounds for that loco and configuration. So the only horns on it are the twin single chimes but my railroad used Nathan M5s which are 5 chime horns. So be careful what you buy, especially bargain priced locos. I would not buy Bachmann unless it has a Soundtraxx or TCS decoder and then I would ask a lot questions. Certainly at this club you are joining they have someone who is knowledgable about DCC and decoders, ask around and look at what other members are running. Don’t jump in with both feet until you know the waters.
Can you use the Digitrak Decorder with a NCE system?
Yes, you can use any decoder with any dcc system.
Sir, this may be a silly question. I ask apology. After installation, does it run on DC or need DCC commands, Controls, throttle, etc.?? Is it plug and play or need programing.
While it can be used on DC with a decoder performance is just not as good as with a plain DC loco, after all the intent is to use it with DCC. Plug and play usually means that you just plug the decoder into a socket and go which I obviously did not do however I think you may mean something different. While you can operate it as it comes there are a number of features that allow you to customize operation through programming it.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks
Do you lube older locos that have been boxed up for so long?
Yes, and as I explained in my article in MR on the GP7 I had to pull the trucks apart and scrub out all the old dried up grease after it sat for 15 years. And don’t forget the helical gears in the truck towers, and you’d better add a touch of light oil to the motor bearings.
Morning, I'm interested in getting a Ahearn blue point sealed. Is it worth buying it.... for about 70.00. In your opinion to use in a self switching layout.
Thanks
Jose
I’m not sure what a Athearn blue point is, can you be more specific?
@@TheDCCGuy it is the athrean locomotives sold about 6 years ago the box was blue... in ho... look it up in ebay
@@TheDCCGuy its in your video
@@TheDCCGuy its in your video that I commented on.
Hi Larry I need some info to add dcc to very old locos for n scale. Can you give me any info. Thank you.
Those are likely to be problematic since older N-scale models were pretty poor performers. Once you get past about 2000 companies like started offering decoders made to fit specific models but before that you need it use their N and Z scale size decoders and be willing to cut out chunks of weight tog et them to fit. I tinkered with N-scale for about a year back then but finally came back to HO.
I was hoping to find the link you mentioned for the LED's but I can't find it. Thank you
It’s in the description.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you, but what and where is "The Description"?
@@rrakling on iPad there’s a tiny down arrow just underneath the bottom right corner of the video image. Tap it and it should reveal the description. I think that arrow’s there on desktops as well.
What gage is the wire that you use?
Probably about 30AWG. I bought a bundle of the colored wires from Digitrax that they use on their decoders. You can order it from a Digitrax dealer and others like NCE and TCS may also offer bundles.
This is john. Thank s for your reply. I keep getting. No d message every time I try to program
John
Ok, that means the system is not getting a response when it sends a programming sequence to the decoder. That could be due to a wiring error or a dead decoder-most likely the former. What DCC system are you using and have you programmed other decoders with it previously?
How do I know wich decoder I need for my locomotive?
Boy that’s an open ended question. The easiest thing you can do is go to the SoundTraxx or TCS website and both have a lookup feature that will suggest certain of their decoders based on which loco you have. Digitrax and other manufacturers may also have this feature but I am not sure. In general the first consideration is does your loco have a DCC socket? If so then you need a decoder that will fit it. Then you also need to consider the size of the decoder and space in your loco. I have done a number of steam and diesel installation videos so watch them to get an idea of what is involved. It can be as easy and plug it in and go or a full hard wiring project. For someone new to the hobby or DCC the best option is to buy a loco with a factory installed decoder.
@@TheDCCGuy thanks so much! I brought my locomotive at a train show last year, it’s probably from the 70’s. I’m pretty good with my hands. I really want to try and do it. Thanks for all of your videos. I am very new to this.
Nice job but you did the easy install. How about a sound decoder and, because this is a short wheelbase, how about a keep alive?
Glad you enjoyed the video. My main goal was to show how to deal with the unique characteristics of the Athearn design. Adding sound would simply have required using a similar sound decoder and sticking a sugar cube in the cab, neither being difficult or unusual and there is plenty of room for both-Larry
Does anyone happen to know what size dog done would work for a BB U33B?