The mark restriction should have been based on the leader in a given game (ie, if nurgle leader then no tzeentch operatives, etc). A kill team with an undivided leader and specialists of every mark would have been perfectly fluffy for Black Legion or Word Bearers, and the lack of flexability in the roster really hurts when you can only field six models at a time.
Quick observation - Icon bearer also is favorite of dark gods, so you can have two different marks as favorite... although I'm not sure if tradeoff is worth it
It is viable. I run an undivided icon for free shoot twice on both it and the heavy bolter. Give it 4/5 damage and it's like you have two heavy bolters!
Small caveat for the reaper: Against enemies that rely on Invuln anyway (Harlequins...) it appears to be better than the Heavy Bolter and maybe even the Plasma Gun (heavy though). Thanks to the fixed amount of saves spreading the same dmg (expected value 14 for Reaper and 14.166666... for HB, flips with Tzeentch) over more dice is better in ranged (opposite in melee ofc). So the reaper seems to be better at getting hits past invulns. Also more dice means higher chance of a crit (which does equal amounts of dmg for both against invuln).
This is really helpful for a new player. I still think I'm going Space Marines for my first Kill Team, but I've got my eye on these guys for a second or third down the line.
Just played my first game of Kill Team and it would have helped if I watched this first. (struggled against vanguard Kill Team). Building that Heavy Bolter Marine now.
I think the maul shouldn't be overlooked. Stun+Grisly trophy can -2 attacks from your opponent which can be game changing. If you use the Acolyte to give him lethal 5+ which can help crit. Nice to see the Champion isn't completely phased out by the Chosen
I really wish I could mix these new options with the compendium options. The shrive talon, the chosen, and the acolyte all seem really useful in certain situations, but without that mass of cultists to play the objective with it just seems like a waste.
Thank you for your job man))i agree with u that these guys need a slight buff. may be not the 7th operative, but just adding them 1 wound. like they would have same 6 bodies in 3+ save, and have the same amount of wound that primaris have
Thanks! While I'd love extra wounds, GW would have to change it on all the Legionary dataslates and every other Marine sheet too which I can't see them doing
Do you think the Legionary Kill Team is strictly better than the Chaos Space Marines? Activations seem to matter and being able to take 8 cultists still feels like a big deal just to be able to play some missions. It would be nice if they had kept that option.
I have played a few games with compendium Traitor Marines against Custodes and will really miss Malefic Rounds and the Icon of Vengence action. I’ll try this out, but I’m not sure if it’s going to replace my compendium team and that’s a little disappointing. The models are excellent though and as a Word Bearers player, the updated transfers look great and apply much better than the old ones I’m used to (from many years ago TBH).
Agreed, an extra Astartes operative would go a way to increasing the team's longevity and competitiveness. Disappointed there's no cultist options, did hope for a trade system similar to Warpcoven. Thanks for the review.
They just don't seem like they gain enough to make up for losing the compendium list's cultist option. And way too much generic melee focus, where their expensive armor doesn't count.
I do kind of like the reliability of Unidvided. Tzentzh sounds amazing on the Gunner though. Do you get/lose anything for making the whole team one mark/mixed?
Some ploys apply only to models with particular mark and some of those ploys apply to all models with partivular mark in the team, so it can be percived as some kind of loss - those ploys won't apply to whole team if team is mixed. on the other hand you gain more flexibility with mixed marks. you are also limited in what you can mix.
I feel like 6 Legionaries is plenty, but since Intercessors have 14 Wounds I REALLY question why daemonically infused marines would have fewer wounds? Solid kill team, but they REALLY good stuff still just outclasses them. I obliterated my friends Voidscarred tho
Great video, just a quick question with regards the Heavy Gunner. In the video you mention that this guy could ‘shoot, move, shoot’. Is this correct? As he would be doing one action twice which I thought you couldn’t do, or is that just when an operative can do some actions for free?
@@CanYouRollaCrit I actually have a question about this - in narrative, you can opt to add extra operatives as one of your requisitions. Do you think this is worth it for the 7th marine? And if so, who would you spec? I ask because it would cost 25% of my starting requisition points, meaning I could only have 1 strategic asset (I need to spend 2 req points on equipment to get the suspensor system AND tainted rounds). After watching the video, and reading advice in the comments, I am planning: Undivided chosen Undi shrivetalon Khorne butcher Tzeen icon bearer w/bolter and tainted rounds Tzeen heavy gunner w/ heavy bolter and suspensor system Tzeen gunner w/ plasma I don't know if this is the best....
Hey just wanted to ask would you ever pick Slaanesh instead of Khorne? And if you would pick heavy gunner instead of gunner(plasma)example against horde team what weapons would you take against i was think Rocket Launcher thanks for answer
I’ve been playing legionaries and they are a lot of fun but I’ve found they are overwhelmed by teams with more units. What would you say the strongest staple team for them would be? I’ve had a lot of mixed results with the butcher to the point where I am not sure if it’s worth taking him
@@CanYouRollaCrit When might you be adding another battle report with the legionaries? The one that’s posted with two one shots against the legionaries in turn 1 was fairly disappointing (still nice to watch). Love to see a rematch that was a bit more balanced.
@@CanYouRollaCrit all of the information that you’ve posted has been the very helpful in understanding these chaos marines as well as the Corsairs Thanks!
I’d love to see a rematch as well, interesting you left out the balfire acolyte from the staple team as well. Wish you could mix the marks as you’ve mentioned in your review it feels very limited with the current restrictions but still a lot of fun the play
The team looks fun, I don’t think they need a 7th model. We just need to do testing and see how good they are. P.s. Bro Pathfinders just got a nerf and it’s only been a week. Can you leave off that pathfinders are broken. It’s like a broken record man. Test them out before you declare anything.
They do need a 7th as I have tested them myself in games already This was recorded before the balance update but Pathfinders are still the best team in the game imo.
@@CanYouRollaCrit I think there’s a better way to do a balance change then just add a new member. I was thinking increasing their health or letting them have a semi “4th” APL. A way to do a 4th APL with out having a 4th APL. Like the new Aeldari kill team. Where you get a free Dash. Also The new Clowns Troupe seem to be really good counter against Pathfinders. I understand they are really good still but let’s see if the new Kill Teams kick them. I understand it’s a prerecording but I would of edited that out personally.
Adding an additional member is simpler than reworking the entire characteristics of the team and mirrors what GW have done in the balance dataslate Nopeeee, Quins lose even more to Pathfinders now with the domino field change. The matchup got easier for Pathfinders when they already had the advantage against Harlequins
@@CanYouRollaCrit I only suggest it because I feel like getting over 6 member for a Kill Team pushes Elites to far into being semi elites. For example Clowns. Yes it’s harder todo but I think GW need to put this in mind when making new elite teams for future Kill teams. Also 7 elite members is only 21 APL total. While a Semi 4 APL is 24 APL total. Have you played the match up or have you just looked at it on paper? Because 5 markerlights still doesn’t affect them when they are in cover. Also Shadowseer doesn’t need Line of Sight for his powers. Yes they may of been nerfed on Domino Field a bit but have gained more strength in other areas.
Well otherwise they won't be viable in tournaments at all Pathfinders already beat Harlequins and now it's got even easier. Lost their compendium tricks and don't need to be within 2 inches to negate domino field, only 6. You don't need to markerlight them, you have 13 operatives and they have 8. You run and gun into them, whipe them out. Quins only got worse against their bad matchups with are Pathfinders, Vet Guard, Kommandos and Warpcoven
![SCOUT SQUAD vs. LEGIONARY [Kill Team Battle Report]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I_2uo6iRnSg/mqdefault.jpg)
The mark restriction should have been based on the leader in a given game (ie, if nurgle leader then no tzeentch operatives, etc). A kill team with an undivided leader and specialists of every mark would have been perfectly fluffy for Black Legion or Word Bearers, and the lack of flexability in the roster really hurts when you can only field six models at a time.
I think the restriction is fine for the kill team but not the roster. Just hurts flexibility too much
Quick observation - Icon bearer also is favorite of dark gods, so you can have two different marks as favorite... although I'm not sure if tradeoff is worth it
Ooooh good catch! Yeah sadly the Icon just eats a valuble kill team slot
I was wondering if it could be valid with 4/5 bolter and maybe good blade - but it is a lot of equipment points.
It is viable. I run an undivided icon for free shoot twice on both it and the heavy bolter.
Give it 4/5 damage and it's like you have two heavy bolters!
So if you have both your leader and the icon bearer as undivided, can you do both Hateful Assault and Malicious Volleys for free?
@@FunkBastid not really - it is once per turning point - so double favorite mark gives you backup, while two marks give you choice
Small caveat for the reaper: Against enemies that rely on Invuln anyway (Harlequins...) it appears to be better than the Heavy Bolter and maybe even the Plasma Gun (heavy though). Thanks to the fixed amount of saves spreading the same dmg (expected value 14 for Reaper and 14.166666... for HB, flips with Tzeentch) over more dice is better in ranged (opposite in melee ofc). So the reaper seems to be better at getting hits past invulns. Also more dice means higher chance of a crit (which does equal amounts of dmg for both against invuln).
True, better against invuns in a single volley but double firing heavy bolter should win out in that scenario still
@@CanYouRollaCrit Right. I guess that settles it, especially on an undivided team.
This is really helpful for a new player. I still think I'm going Space Marines for my first Kill Team, but I've got my eye on these guys for a second or third down the line.
Yeah they're great as a second team!
Super helpful, thank you! I have made frantic notes!
No worries, that's great to hear (:
Their entire entry sounds like death metal lyrics
Just played my first game of Kill Team and it would have helped if I watched this first. (struggled against vanguard Kill Team).
Building that Heavy Bolter Marine now.
Ah great to hear, hope the Heavy Bolter Marine helps you out!
I think the maul shouldn't be overlooked. Stun+Grisly trophy can -2 attacks from your opponent which can be game changing. If you use the Acolyte to give him lethal 5+ which can help crit. Nice to see the Champion isn't completely phased out by the Chosen
It's not bad but the raw damage and healing from the daemon blade is too good to pass up imo
I really wish I could mix these new options with the compendium options. The shrive talon, the chosen, and the acolyte all seem really useful in certain situations, but without that mass of cultists to play the objective with it just seems like a waste.
Yeah but they seem to be making bespoke teams to stand on their own without multiple fire teams
Thank you for your job man))i agree with u that these guys need a slight buff. may be not the 7th operative, but just adding them 1 wound. like they would have same 6 bodies in 3+ save, and have the same amount of wound that primaris have
Thanks! While I'd love extra wounds, GW would have to change it on all the Legionary dataslates and every other Marine sheet too which I can't see them doing
Love your kill team content!!!
Thanks, glad you like it (:
Interesting watching this after 8 months...
Slaanesh should get a noise marine kill team.
Would love to see that when they get their own codex
Do you think the Legionary Kill Team is strictly better than the Chaos Space Marines? Activations seem to matter and being able to take 8 cultists still feels like a big deal just to be able to play some missions. It would be nice if they had kept that option.
I'm not sure tbh, I think the cultists maybe give them the edge. It's something I need to test out for sure
I have played a few games with compendium Traitor Marines against Custodes and will really miss Malefic Rounds and the Icon of Vengence action. I’ll try this out, but I’m not sure if it’s going to replace my compendium team and that’s a little disappointing. The models are excellent though and as a Word Bearers player, the updated transfers look great and apply much better than the old ones I’m used to (from many years ago TBH).
Agreed, an extra Astartes operative would go a way to increasing the team's longevity and competitiveness. Disappointed there's no cultist options, did hope for a trade system similar to Warpcoven. Thanks for the review.
No cultists I understand but an extra CSM warrior would bebfine imo. Glad you liked (:
They just don't seem like they gain enough to make up for losing the compendium list's cultist option. And way too much generic melee focus, where their expensive armor doesn't count.
Yeah it's a weird balance. I feel a 7th warrior helps solve most of these issues tho
I do kind of like the reliability of Unidvided. Tzentzh sounds amazing on the Gunner though. Do you get/lose anything for making the whole team one mark/mixed?
Some ploys apply only to models with particular mark and some of those ploys apply to all models with partivular mark in the team, so it can be percived as some kind of loss - those ploys won't apply to whole team if team is mixed. on the other hand you gain more flexibility with mixed marks. you are also limited in what you can mix.
No downside for mixed, I just like lots of ranged so Tzeentch is too good for me!
@@CanYouRollaCrit It's hard to argue with that crit you can almost count on among 5 attacks to be sure to get the Piercing.
Warp coven or any WD team review? I think you make great points and I’d like your opinion on the teams that haven’t gotten a box.
I could definitely but just need to play them a bit to be confident in presenting them (:
@@CanYouRollaCrit even just your experiences against them to say what weaknesses or strengths you see them having.
I could but I like to play them too in order to get experiences from both sides so I have a proper understating of the faction
I feel like 6 Legionaries is plenty, but since Intercessors have 14 Wounds I REALLY question why daemonically infused marines would have fewer wounds?
Solid kill team, but they REALLY good stuff still just outclasses them. I obliterated my friends Voidscarred tho
Great video, just a quick question with regards the Heavy Gunner. In the video you mention that this guy could ‘shoot, move, shoot’. Is this correct? As he would be doing one action twice which I thought you couldn’t do, or is that just when an operative can do some actions for free?
Ah I meant move shoot dash aha
Needs the seventh operative if it is supposed to fight tau or vetguard, harlekins or custodes imho.
Any KT really, helps offset the loss of cultists too
@@CanYouRollaCrit I actually have a question about this - in narrative, you can opt to add extra operatives as one of your requisitions. Do you think this is worth it for the 7th marine? And if so, who would you spec?
I ask because it would cost 25% of my starting requisition points, meaning I could only have 1 strategic asset (I need to spend 2 req points on equipment to get the suspensor system AND tainted rounds).
After watching the video, and reading advice in the comments, I am planning:
Undivided chosen
Undi shrivetalon
Khorne butcher
Tzeen icon bearer w/bolter and tainted rounds
Tzeen heavy gunner w/ heavy bolter and suspensor system
Tzeen gunner w/ plasma
I don't know if this is the best....
Hey just wanted to ask would you ever pick Slaanesh instead of Khorne? And if you would pick heavy gunner instead of gunner(plasma)example against horde team what weapons would you take against i was think Rocket Launcher thanks for answer
Nah I'd still not take Slaanesh. Maybe missile launcher if I expected them to bunch up but I feel the heavy bolter is more reliable in that situation
How big is the Grisly mark token 25mm base 32mm base??
Could I use some raptors in this kill team
You might be able to?
I’ve been playing legionaries and they are a lot of fun but I’ve found they are overwhelmed by teams with more units. What would you say the strongest staple team for them would be? I’ve had a lot of mixed results with the butcher to the point where I am not sure if it’s worth taking him
I think leader, shrivetalon, gunner and heavy gunner are all staples imo. The anointed is a good shout too
@@CanYouRollaCrit When might you be adding another battle report with the legionaries? The one that’s posted with two one shots against the legionaries in turn 1 was fairly disappointing (still nice to watch). Love to see a rematch that was a bit more balanced.
It'll probably be a while sadly, got other factions scheduled ahead
@@CanYouRollaCrit all of the information that you’ve posted has been the very helpful in understanding these chaos marines as well as the Corsairs Thanks!
I’d love to see a rematch as well, interesting you left out the balfire acolyte from the staple team as well. Wish you could mix the marks as you’ve mentioned in your review it feels very limited with the current restrictions but still a lot of fun the play
Leader and 6?! All other astrates have basically had to make do with 1 and 4. We've only just got the 5th model, don't be greedy ;)
Ah they kinda really need it 😅
The team looks fun, I don’t think they need a 7th model. We just need to do testing and see how good they are.
P.s. Bro Pathfinders just got a nerf and it’s only been a week. Can you leave off that pathfinders are broken. It’s like a broken record man.
Test them out before you declare anything.
They do need a 7th as I have tested them myself in games already
This was recorded before the balance update but Pathfinders are still the best team in the game imo.
@@CanYouRollaCrit I think there’s a better way to do a balance change then just add a new member. I was thinking increasing their health or letting them have a semi “4th” APL. A way to do a 4th APL with out having a 4th APL. Like the new Aeldari kill team. Where you get a free Dash.
Also The new Clowns Troupe seem to be really good counter against Pathfinders. I understand they are really good still but let’s see if the new Kill Teams kick them.
I understand it’s a prerecording but I would of edited that out personally.
Adding an additional member is simpler than reworking the entire characteristics of the team and mirrors what GW have done in the balance dataslate
Nopeeee, Quins lose even more to Pathfinders now with the domino field change. The matchup got easier for Pathfinders when they already had the advantage against Harlequins
@@CanYouRollaCrit I only suggest it because I feel like getting over 6 member for a Kill Team pushes Elites to far into being semi elites. For example Clowns. Yes it’s harder todo but I think GW need to put this in mind when making new elite teams for future Kill teams. Also 7 elite members is only 21 APL total. While a Semi 4 APL is 24 APL total.
Have you played the match up or have you just looked at it on paper? Because 5 markerlights still doesn’t affect them when they are in cover. Also Shadowseer doesn’t need Line of Sight for his powers.
Yes they may of been nerfed on Domino Field a bit but have gained more strength in other areas.
Well otherwise they won't be viable in tournaments at all
Pathfinders already beat Harlequins and now it's got even easier. Lost their compendium tricks and don't need to be within 2 inches to negate domino field, only 6. You don't need to markerlight them, you have 13 operatives and they have 8. You run and gun into them, whipe them out.
Quins only got worse against their bad matchups with are Pathfinders, Vet Guard, Kommandos and Warpcoven