The ARVN (South Vietnamese) in Cinema: Hollywood Edition
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.พ. 2022
- 0:14 The Good ARVN:
___________________________________
0:16 Operation Dumbo Drop (1995)
1:02 We Were Soldiers (2002)
2:24 The Green Berets (1968)
2:58 The Evil ARVN
___________________________________
3:00 Go Tell the Spartans (1978)
9:14 Heaven and Earth (1993)
10:35 Full Metal Jacket (1987)
11:17 Apocalypse Now (1979)
12:24 Indifferent ARVN:
___________________________________
12:26 Good Morning, Vietnam (1987)
13:52 The Deer Hunter (1978)
Other Hollywood film/TV series feat ARVN not shown:
A Bright Shining Lie (1998)
Tour of Duty (TV Series 1987-1990)
Rules of Engagement (2000)
The Iron Triangle (1989)
When I finished making Vietnam Films from the South Vietnamese Perspective, I thought about if Hollywood portrayed it. They are usually portrayed as selling out, corrupt, cowardly, or hateful (totally not something Americans were known for in the war).
Ironically unified Vietnamese movies portrayed the ARVN a little more humanely, even if they were the villains. Some were former directors during the Republic Era.
The portrayal of Vietnamese in popular American cinema continues to be an extension of Hollywood perversion and assumption of a conflict only hastily taught and summarized through an American experience instead of the Vietnamese, Laotian, Hmong, Cambodian, Thai, Chinese, or Soviet perspective.
Ironically for a war named after Vietnam, I don't see a lot of Vietnamese be the focus of the story.
Probably the most honest/respectful portrayals of the ARVN I have seen were in The Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now, while the worst are Go Tell the Spartans, Full Metal Jacket and Heaven and Earth.
ARVN Ranger with long hair selling prostitute to US soldier rapists and raping Vietnamese women and doing the classic Asian male dunce Hollywood trope.
I put the John Greene comment in the intro because it perfectly encapsulates the assumption that the rest of the world is known for, that the War was the classic Star Wars style story of the entirety of Vietnamese race fighting against Americans, and not a Vietnam that believes in a Communist type system that was never practiced before vs a Vietnam backed by system seemingly rooted in "colonial" White history.
No one ever wants to portray the war as two Vietnams being a victim of an ideological war between two superpowers that make it an inescapable conflict that demands a side.
No one ever wants to portray a war that inherently rooted in French colonial mismanagement that allowed countries such as Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam to become a battleground of atrocity.
No one ever wants to admit that Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand are undeniably intertwined in the Vietnamese conflict and that this "limited war" was a lot more international and far reaching than people teach it.
• Re-establishing the Ho...
![เจ้าผู้เดียว - ดิด คิตตี้ [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/q0NLCYKBOTo/mqdefault.jpg)
I am pretty disappointed that the Hollywood portrayed ARVN troops like a bunch of cowboy and gangsters , they didnt stay in Vietnam and watch how we really fought and behaved, they really need to consider their portrayal about South Vietnamese troops.
To top it off Roger Ebert and Siskel gave two thumbs up on “Go Tell the Spartans” a movie blaming the entire US intervention in Vietnam on the Vietnamese rather than themselves. Hollywood can’t decide whether to make the US or Vietnamese look bad, and if it is the US being bad, they have to portray half of the US as bad while the other is redeeming. The US can’t escape their fragile image of superiority even when they know they know they have have lost.
@@Kabutoes yeah, i agree, but we can't deny the fact that us soldiers really helped the vietnamese people ,rescued and treated the civilians while the south vietnamese soldiers should be the ones who do it instead, they helped the countries that aren't theirs so i think they deserve respect from the world. On the other hand, there is number of american troops who just come to Vietnam to enjoy killing and shooting both enemies and civilians and that dark side of war is portrayed accurately in "platoon", while the other movies just tend to blame their faults on south vietnamese troops.
@@mlagamer8698 yes, that is true, I was not trying to discredit the US military in South Vietnam but just the general American, Western, outside rhetoric of understanding the War and missing it by a large margin. All my friends in the US all think it’s just a war against tree people and rice farmers who want to be left alone and the whole thing a drama of American Exceptionalism when they forget about the rest of the world that is involved. Documentaries on both sides have proven that you cannot dissect the entire conflict in a couple of hours due to its connection to what’s happening in Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand. It’s much larger than people think and when people just see it as “Vietnam” they forget all the other elements involved and find something like World War II more interesting. The tragedy of South Vietnam is that it’s surrounded by “neutral countries” that are free real estate by anybody other than the US, but if Vietnam were like the Korean Peninsula, it would have survived and developed better.
Its a war of 2 ideologies , we the south vietnamese didn't accept the communist take-over.Don't listen to what communist said, look at what they do . Since 1975, the communists have been suppressing the voice of Vietnamese people , disregarding the freedom of speech . Now vietnam is an only-party country, dictatorial party like communist parties always trying to send their children to capitalism countries . I'm a young generation of Vietnam, currently studing abroad in Canada , I hope that someday our Vietnamese could take back our freedom , someday the yellow flag will fly above the land again . 😥
@@Kabutoes I wish US film makers would make more movies showing foreign armies as capable fighting forces, not dumb soldiers with storm trooper aim. Don't get me wrong, We Were Soldiers is my favorite Vietnam war movie and all, but I hate how they depicted the French army at the beginning of the movie, also pretty stereotypical with the kepi's.
One of the few movies I ever saw that had a battle strictly between ARVN troops and the Communists without any Americans was the 1995 film Kissinger and Nixon. At about 52 minutes into the movie there was a brief scene where the South Vietnamese Army over runs a North Vietnamese base. In the aftermath of a quick shootout a South Vietnamese Commander discovers a secret document detailing American peace talks with the communists which then gets passed on to President Thieu, who in turn gets furious at Kissinger for doing this behind his back. The movie can be seen for free on TH-cam.
holy shit nice find, man Kissinger really playing geopolitical chess at the expense of Vietnam
@@Kabutoes Sadly, I agree with you.
@@Kabutoes There were sayings in old South Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge Jr and Henry Kissinger both considered “Butchers” for their hawkish political stance and overthrow government scheme
There are so few movies where the actors actually speak Vietnamese - Apocalypse Now and We Were Soldiers
Not only that they were speaking the correct accents in We Were Soldiers too. Bravo
@@spugbgobparewants because they did use Vietnamese actors
Thx you for bringing up the Forgotten Amry (ARVN) thx you bro
They will never be forgotten.
And the pro south Vietnamese insurgency too. There were irregulars who fought against the north too.
I’m happy that movies like Operation Dumbo Drop, Green Berets, and We Were Soldiers for recognizing the strength and courage that my lost country’s army, the ARVN, had. Often watching Hollywood movies, I felt that too many movies besmirched the name of the ARVN and reinforced the negative stereotype that just because they were non-Americans fighting alongside American troops, they were inferior, lacking in courage, and unable to fight as well.
But the Tet Offensive battles such as the one in Hue, and the Fall of South Vietnam in Saigon showed the tenacity, bravery, and skill of the ARVN against overwhelming odds, even if they did get defeated in the end.
My uncle fought in the last Battle of Saigon, destroying a dozen Commie tanks with what few rockets they had left from the Americans and killing over two hundred NVA soldiers in wave attacks before being forced to retreat as more enemy tanks showed up.
Cảm ơn bạn và chú của bạn, người đã kiên cường bảo vệ miền Nam. Chân thành cảm ơn những người lính VNCH.
Vnch muôn năm, tự do dân chủ muôn năm
Wow never knew arvn can take down 200 people hahahaha
@@azuaraikrezeul1677 Commie soldiers back then used to do human wave tactics Stalingrad style. Throw hundreds of guys all along the length of a salient, and then start flooding holes in the lines with troops wherever they appear.
Plus, the way they attack is similar to banzai charges in that while they have terrifying offensive power and it’s a straightforward Zerg rush of “run and gun”, they are pretty exposed. Send dozens of guys at a time down a street in the open at machine gunners hunkered down in entrenched positions with overlapping fields of fire? It’s a turkey shoot.
That being said, ammo goes pretty quick, and the Americans didn’t deliver on their promise to back up South Vietnam with supplies and munitions if North Vietnam violated the Paris Accords (which they did). Meanwhile, Russia and China kept pumping North Vietnam with copious amounts of gear and material from their fat weapon stockpiles, enabling them to inevitably win the war.
@@huydang5955 and arvn right at the first sight of a commie breach kinda explains why s.vietnam in almost 2 mos.go start watching more rambo movies
Optics are big gay. I would like to add that there is both good and bad ARVN Portrayal in Tour of Duty, a debatable tone in Rules of Engagement, and pretty bad in The Iron Triangle.
Damn never thought of those I had to keep sifting through films that aren’t known for them, do you know any others? Wym by optics?
@@Kabutoes A Bright Shining Lie, pretty harsh on the ARVN; I mean optics like how the rest of the world portrayed them.
Oh word, thanks for the info!
would be cool to see a movie where the main character is an arvn marine
Or the airborne
@ThyPeasantSlayer "The Sympathizer" Is a Name of Novel about North Vietnamese Spy During Events of Vietnam War (In The Novel itself He was Unnamed, So I Just call Him "Nguyen Choc").. Which the Series of Events make him turn Changed his mind And Defect to the West.. despite in the end His Dedication wasted after Fall of Saigon back in 1975..
it even got a sequel Named "The Committed" Following the Life During his day of POW and How he Finally Free and Immigrated to France during 90s.
@@toandang6280 The Best Novel I Ever Read....
They should make a movie about tet offensive
Screams in 1974 paracel islands.imagine being beaten by a bunch of fishing boats
This is my grandfather in ARVN, in ARVN it's not like in the movies they are very kind, I know because I was in Saigon after 1975 and ask them, do you know more than 500,000 people died in communist re-education prisons after 1975?? The communists beat them, kicked them on the head, sometimes poured boiling water on them because they didn't listen to the communists
Where do you get this information my boy?
@@goldendiana986 wiki
@@gigachadvn1904 thanks for information but i still side with communist
@@goldendiana986 who's care ???
@@gigachadvn1904 you roasting me?
sometime the movie is wrong,my grandpa used to serve for arvn he was mad bc saw some american movie ,and yea the movie about arvn bad but wtf? is a big lie,but i agree some of people in arvn bad .
Yeah lol the Americans try so hard to appeal to the Vietnamese but are too lazy or don’t know if they should be appealing to the ones that are living in their own country or the ones in the main country.
@@Kabutoes you dont need to keep on shitting on the Americans nruv
Thank you.
Republic of vietnam forever
5:10 Other than the long hair on some guys, looks like they nailed the look of ARVN soldiers in the 1960s! OG 107 Sateen uniforms, bare M1 Steel Pot Helmets, WW2-Korean-Vietnam webbed gear, Mcnamara
boots, M1 Garands, Carbines, and Thompsons. Oh and don't forget the smiles! Seen plenty of photos (dated 1960s) of ARVN soldiers like these! Kudos to the military advisors of Go Tell the Spartans!
People often forget that the overseas wars fought by the Americans are mainly fought by local forces. It's a pity that a film like "Mosul," but taking place during the Vietnam War was never made.
America's local allies are often seen as undisciplined thieves and cowards, where they often suffered losses several times greater than the Americans and in the event of defeat could not simply get on a plane and fly away, and often faced death and torture after defeat. This is most saddening in the context of Vietnam, which underwent tremendous economic and cultural changes between 1965 and 1975, but was ultimately betrayed by America.
Yeah south Vietnam was poor and not able to survive long enough to create memorializing movies. The most interesting battles of the War were usually the ones after the Americans left, like in An Loc where tens of hundreds of NVA tanks were smashed by rocket launches in city corners, or Quang Tri when they turned the city into the Moon.
@@Kabutoesthey really should make a movie about Quang Tri that was a crazy ass battle, its famous in Vietnam and known as Mua He Do Lua, I think it means Summer of Madness
@@DDM_08 I heard it called the “Red Fiery Summer” but yeah all the monuments and films made of the Vietnam war in Vietnam mostly revolve around the big pitched battles in the 70s when it was entirely conventional at that point. It’s ludicrous that the most bloody battle of the Vietnam war is just a footnote compared to the battles during the Tet Offensive. The Easter offensive had Soviet and Chinese tanks breaching ARVN fire bases.
@@Kabutoes Fr honestly I think Hollywood just doesn’t want to make films about people who didn’t speak English. ARVN soldiers were practically in all of the most dangerous battles and received basically suicide missions on a daily, yet they proved to be very capable. Wish their was a movie where their is no bias towards any side though. Besides the ARVN, Many people in the West considered the Viet Cong evil and deciphered them as these suicidal killing machines without a deeper meaning. Yep their soldiers did do some evil shit too, but their home was getting bombed every waking moment, learning about atrocious war crimes were being committed and not being able to do anything. etc. It can strive any man to that breaking point of I don’t care if I live or die. Every battle they fought they knew they were outmatched and had a strong chance of going to be killed or lose, but the resilience and determination they had to fight till the last man, all at their own will, unlike the Japanese and other regimes who had to use barbaric tactics on their own countrymen to continue battling. I don’t even think they had deserters. Within 40 years they had defeated the French, the Japanese, America, liberated Cambodia from Genocide, and made China back off. And all they ever wanted to do was just be in peace. Compared to all these communist countries, Vietnam is really a good one.
@@DDM_08The Vietnamese didn’t defeat the Japanese, the Japanese were called back to the mainland to defend against an anticipated mainland invasion. Commies give themselves too much credit. The North Vietnamese installed the Khmer Rouge, and supported them during the genocide up until the Khmer Rouge betrayed them. When they invaded, they could have helped the Cambodian monarchists and republicans, but the commies treated them as enemies and fought them too. Prince Sihanouk had to go to America to get support for the monarchy.
It is laughable to say they “liberated the Khmer Rouge from communism” when they were entirely responsible for the Khmer Rouge. You’re saying a country supporting genocide liberated the country they were supporting genocide in, simply because they stopped supporting the regime when the regime turned on them.
“And all they ever wanted to do was just be in peace.” Do you actually believe this? Installing communist regimes in their neighbors Laos, Cambodia, and South Vietnam is not “just wanting peace”.
9:16 The ARVN dude sounds like an Asian Big Smoke
Yeah that the southern Vietnamese accent
Why an ARVN officer speaking to the Vietnamese villagers in English? 🤔
"All we had to do, was shoot down the Commie plane, CJ!"
I am somewhat of a movie buff and I have never even heard of “Go Tell it to the Spartans” before today. It looks like a really terrible film. John Goldsmith of “the world’s most interesting man” is in it. I have too much respect for Burt Lancaster to even think of watching that stupid movie. 😂
Another movie that came out the same year was “The Boys in Company C”. Anti-war theme and shows ARVN as corrupt gangsters. But at least there is some good actors and writing. It was one of R. Lee Ermey’s earlier roles. Based on The Short-timers, like “Full Metal Jacket.
Much respect to South Vietnam and the ARVN soldiers that fought for it. It is regrettable that the movie industry never portrayed them in a balanced light. They deserve that.
Yes it’s unfortunate how ignorant the western media culture is to the conflict. The moment it portrays an Asian perspective that isn’t consistent to the stereotypical understandings of said Asian perspective, people become uninterested. If you take the recent “da 5 bloods” by spike lee, it disregards a lot of normal Vietnamese culture and interaction in favor of what Americans have seen Vietnamese are like based off Hollywood films because you got the “IS THAT AN APOCALYPSE NOW REFERENCE?” crowd in there
The South Vietnamese should have won against the Communists, just like the Nationalist Chinese should have eliminated their enemies also! Asia today would be so much different from what it is today! :)
【 USA 🇺🇸 India🇮🇳 Japan🇯🇵, South Korea 🇰🇷, Philippines 🇵🇭 Singapore 🇸🇬, France 🇫🇷, Australia 🇦🇺 Ukraine 🇺🇦 and Taiwan🇹🇼】
Guns, fighter jets and helicopters, tanks and jeeps all useless after the U.S withdrawal from Vietnam 1973 and cut the supply for South Vietnam while the North Vietnam Army got unlimited supply and weapons from China and USSR. The fall of Saigon was inevitable when Kissinger sold South Vietnam to the communist at the Paris peace talk with Le Duc Tho. They made a deal to end the war. ARVN fought bravely until ammo ran out. No point to fight after that.
@@MeetJohnnyNg You guys remind me of our story, with the Nationalist China...when Chiang Kai-shek lost Nanjing to the evil forces of Mao Zedong...please NEVER stop fighting against the Communist cancer, brother, NEVER let them win forever! :(
Facts
@ArnoldTeras
"""...should have won against the communists "" !!! Are you smoking good stuffs ! How could you win if you are the one who defends your land against the continuous invasions of the communist north Viet Nam who was backed by crazily by URSS, CHINA, CUBA, LAOS, NORTH KOREA and the whole eastern communist countries bloc (Polan, CZECH REPUBLIC, EAST GERMANY, HUNGARY, ROMANIA, ....) till the end of the war -- While the US gradually ended supplying the ARVN to defend itself. The 1973 Paris Accord was a knife of double cutting-edge. The ARVN has done its best. AMEN RIP 💕💕💕
The Vietnam War was not bad, only the anti-war faction of the American Democratic Party made the war more deadlocked. If only the Americans had let the Republic of Vietnam fight the communists in the North on their own, things would have been different. I don't like the Americans sending troops into the South in their own way because it will lose the legitimacy of the Republic of Vietnam army. North Vietnamese communists will use that excuse to send troops into the south under the pretext of fighting the US to save the country.
So my grandpa was in Vietnam with these guys. ARVN would take VC and drop them out of helicopters 500-800 feet in the air. My grandpa said you could hear the guys screaming. The ARVN was vicious… He was in the Airforce so most interrogations happened on base, they had a Vietnamese lady they would pay $5 and she would do my grandpas laundry. He’s pretty sure Mama San was VC too. They had stolen Corvettes, Mustangs, Cameros and all sorts of cars they would sell down in town, VC/North Vietnam robbed cargo ships and had many Luxury cars for cheap. My grandpa knew many guys who bought cars and got them sent home. Not to mention all the unmarked aircrafts he had to work on or guys who didn’t wear regular Fatigues or coveralls.
People generrally do not understand what Landlocked means in a conflict. Borders are usally the remote areas with sparse population and the least control by the host countries. Insurgents, guerillas, and weaker forces usually take shelters there or in the nearby countries then launch attack across borders. They do this until becoming stronger and establish shelters right on the targeted countries.
The nearby countries face the dilema of either ignoring the illegal presence of the foreign forces OR get involved into the conflict which neither one is desirable. Most of the time, that country chooses to avoid war unless under intense pressure to do otherwise.
A good movie for everyone to watch that has the ARVN would be the smell of burning grass. It's good.
Republic of Vietnam forever
1:26 What The Hell
1:29 Is Crazy
To be honest, In 3:22 (Go Tell The Spartans) i cant understand him say and in this Go Tell The Spartans, i am sure that him not Vietnamse. I am Vietnamse
The actor is korean American so that makes sense
В точку . Вообще Голливуд всё так показывает, "Фабрика грёз" одним словом.
i'm Vietnamese and i can't understand what did they said
Forgotten army
Nah
10:47 Got Me Dying
Vietnam 🇻🇳 ty 💪👏
You guys weren't there, arvn were crazy, south Vietnamese troops we had in special forces groups such as SOG
Find me a army that fought for longer with less against so many.
1:28 Is That A Asian American US Soldier?
Yes
@@Kabutoesoh okay
john wayne was an actor. but there was a real guy. larry thorne
'' the worst portrayal i have ever seen jesus christ '' 🤣🤣😂😂 Yepppppp
3:30 III corps 18th Div. but very exaggerated
As always there are both bad and good soldiers in both sides. The good SVN soldiers tho, died fighting on the battlefield for their country. The ones escaped are the scared and coward.
Go tell the spartans doesn't seem that bad of a movie
how