HS217 Givenergy solar inverter and battery - 6 months update
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- At the end of March 2023 we had a Givenergy solar and battery system installed. This is a report after 5 months of operation including various tips.
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If you ask IVoltz for a system supply and installation quote they will give you a £100 discount if you say your referral is from ‘Haxby Shed’ I will also receive a commission if the order is completed. The offer may be time-limited, varied or withdrawn without notice. Haxby Shed is simply advertising the offer and is not responsible for the work.
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The solar website showing forecast generation for each month mentioned in the video can be found here:
www.in2gr8tedsolutions.co.uk/...
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Another really informative production Haxby Shed! It's great to see end users discussing more than product capability. You can't beat real world feedback 😀
Thanks IVoltz, this is a deep subject, there is much more to it than people realise. I think it's important to know this stuff before people buy. Cheers Paul
Interesting stuff. Thanks Paul.
Thanks Danny. Money from sunlight. Cheers
Superb video. Many thx for this 💥💥
Hi VTACTechnical, I plan to do another update in April, after 1 year of operation, to cover performance and actual savings. Cheers
Excellent précis Paul, good account and update.
Thanks for sharing
Thank you John. There is no way to forecast the annual saving accurately mid-year because so many factors are changing all the time, not least the cost of electricity which changes every 3 months at the moment. My target is to save £1500 across 12 months, if I can. Cheers
Watching a video from Jesse Mullers channel about a US manufactured Home Battery Hybrid Inverter. It has impressive power controls and graphical interface. Shows power flows from the Solar Panels, Home Usage, and bidirectional flow to/from the Grid. Long term we want only rely on the grid for backup power and stay mainly disconnected from its out of control costs. Your videos could provide an excellent reference for those who want to do the same. Keeping tuned.
Hi Geoff, thanks. That was my 2nd video, after 6 months of operation. In my first I went through the controls and graphs. I've very pleased with it all. I'll do another vid in a couple of months - after we have had it a year. In UK we now have something called the 'demand flexibility scheme' (DFS) where if the grid is tight for capacity they will buy power from our home batteries at a very good buy-back rate of between £1.50 to £4.40 (US$1.9 to US$5.5) per kWh, plus we get the normal export rate on top (£0.15 per kWh). It usually runs for an hour at a time and we usually export 3.2kWh at the DFS rate. Apparently we can expect at least 10 high-demand buy-back sessions this winter. We have subscribed to an automated scheme where all this is controlled remotely from the cloud so all we have to do is drink coffee and watch telly, and the money rolls in. Since this is a new development it was never in our solar business case but I reckon it could pay for 1/3 the cost of the battery over 10 years as an unforeseen bonus. (But grid infrastructure batteries are going in fast now so not sure if it will actually run for 10 years for domestic customers.) Cheers
Very interesting and a new sub.
Thank you Tony. Most of my videos are about my hobby machine shop but there is other stuff like this and some DiY. Cheers
Thanks for these videos on your solar installation, I found them very interesting and informative. We are looking into solar for our house which also has an east west roof, so it’s great to see what can be achieved.
Hi, I was surprised how much you can get E-W, typically 80% to 85% of South-facing under comparable conditions. It was really that which made me go for it. I thought E-W would be a lot lower. Some people have batteries without panels! Cheers
Gday Paul, very interesting, it sounds like your system is paying off, cheers
Hi Matty, 8 years payoff I reckon. Very satisfying to see energy just from sun. None of us know what's in front, do we, but I've placed the bet anyway. Take care matey.
This is interesting and something we think about at some point
Hi GTB, the price of panels is still falling and I guess it will be the same for inverters. Batteries need a few more years, or a technology breakthrough, before they become 'cheap'. I know a farm where every barn is topped with panels end to end. I counted 100 at least - 50kW perhaps but quite possibly more. The only downside to that is I think you have to pay tax on the income, being a commercial enterprise. Cheers
Hi Paul, thanks for giving us an update, very interesting too. Maybe you could do another update after a year to see how its going. As always you explained so well that even I could understand it!!.
We do get occasional power outs generally they are short lived. However there is a neighbourhood in the city where it is daily occurrence mainly due to people jumping the meter and robbing the electricity, typically it is to power industrial grade lighting to grow certain plants. Electricity is know colloquially here as "luz" light.
Have a great weekend!!
Hi David, I get your meaning. It is almost impossible to predict what we will get over 12 months because there are so many variables, so yes maybe a 12 month update might be useful. Cheers
Hi Paul. Very timely update. I have a “solar installation” survey this week in readiness for a new system begins installed this side of Christmas. Such a learning curve. 🥴
Hi Andrew, solar and battery are simple in concept but moment by moment it's very difficult to predict because there are so many variables (state of charge, how much sun, house load, time of day tariff etc, and then tariff changes every 3 months at the moment). All I can say is get a system that gives you as much data and as much control as you can, and online for firmware updates etc. I was watching a vid the other day where a householder had a battery from a big brand very reputable company but they did not have the level of control they needed, to the point they said they could not recommend it. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Thank you Paul. That’s super useful for when I meet up with the surveyor on Thursday. I will have a list of questions to ask him. 👍
Thanks Paul for clearly explaining your GivEnergy installation. It will be very useful to me as I will have the same system soon.
Hi Peter thanks. I'm still very pleased with it. And I/we got an added bonus recently with automation for the payment to save energy (forgot the proper name). Basically at set times Givenergy (Axle) take control and export from the battery earning typically £2 per kWh plus the normal export tariff. I can explain more properly/fully if you need. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Hello Paul , If I let Givenergy automate the export from the battery, will it interfere with my FIT tariff I have at the moment ?
Hi Peter, maybe there are two separate questions: 1) if I am on FIT can I routinely get paid for battery export?; 2) over and above that, can I get paid if I subscribe to the Demand Flexibility Service (£2 to £4 per kWh payment for exporting at specific short-notice peak times)?. I looked in the Givenergy Q&A for the Giveback scheme (Demand Flexibility Service) and that helped a bit. I do not know the answer truly to either question but for sure to get payment for the DFS scheme you must have an smart export meter so they can monitor export by the minute. Instinct tells me you may get nothing for 1) (because that would be double counting maybe?) but maybe you may get something for 2), the exceptional DFS payments. You would have to ask those questions specifically. Complex isn't it. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Hi Paul, Thanks for your reply regarding the Givenergy/ Axle grid top up. I did look into it and found that the FIT was not affected and signed up to participate in the new scheme . Many thanks, Pete.
@@peterward5723 I have found it works flawlessly and is just money for nothing. Giveback/Axle payment, plus Octopoints (Octopus points), plus my normal export tariff payment. Cheers
Thanks very much for the response. I missed the first video but have now watched it, and it really helps. TH-cam is a great medium for providing a system which supports unbiased, first hand operational feedback, and avoiding all the dubious advertising from 'award winning', drum banging 'music' commercials. As you state there is lots of information to absorb, which makes this an ideal project. The Givenergy-Octopus combination does everything that the Jesse Muller system provides. One consideration we have is that we have petrol powered AVR generators (5kVa from memory), which we use during grid blackouts. Much earlier our first generator was left attached after a blackout and we accidentally roasted the windings when the grid was reattached. That's been solved by automatic dropouts and switching, but we can improve on that. There are also 16mm and 25mm SWA cables, 120m long, which could link the house if remote solar panels were used. The 25mm cable is used to minimise Voltage drop for a VSD, and the 16mm is normally used for more static frequencies. We will be watching all you videos again, as they really help. Thanks.
Hi Geoff, the system I have does not operate off-grid. This is due to UK installation regulations for this product. The only power backup is that socket under the inverter. But Givenergy now has another product which they call the 'All-in-one' that includes a gateway that hard switches the house over from the grid to the inverter and battery system in an instant in the event of a grid supply fail (i.e. it physically isolates the house from the grid) and this product will run the whole house from the sun and battery without a blip. I would not have bought it for myself however because I have very limited space for a gateway close to the grid supply point on my house. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Wow, this is great advice, and reinforces the need for me to do further research. We incorporated drop out relays on the latest generator feed, and get sufficient power for the entire house with a voltage stable enough to run all the computers and FM/LORA devices (Rfsolutions). Expensive to run but we only need 1-2 days during storms, unless a farmer knocks a power pole down. We are about to switch to Octopus, was it subscribing to Octopus or Givenergy which provides you with a bonus? Octopus gets very positive reports rather than our present supplier which is a corporate pain.
@@HaxbyShed We considered a fail over, but for now its manual switching to isolate the grid; starting the generator; enlivening a switch board; then feeding via the 16mm line up to 50A. Yorkshire Generators are solely powered by PV panels, which l believe provides all their site premises with power. Their main business is diesel electric hire for events.
Hi Geoff, if you can switch to Octopus with my link then you get £50 credit and I get £50 credit. In fact every Octopus customer gets a personal Octopus referral link and this is mine share.octopus.energy/mint-jay-124 Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Paul, l do apologise as we have already signed up. If there is anything l can do to rectify this, let me know please
Even in NW London we get power cuts, not as often as decades back perhaps but they do still happen. Just a few weeks ago the power was out for an hour, after midnight but some folks are still up, luckily being old school we had plenty of torches, candles and even oil lamps. With our ever increasing reliance on electric power it set me thinking about some for of stored electricity, even if it just kept the land-line phone and Internet live.
Hi Chris, you can buy desktop computer battery backup systems for as little as £70 but these could just as easily power a phone, router, a TV and some lights in a power cut. Now and then the rechargable batteries would need replacing but I expect they last several years. Cheers
Living in north central US, this doesn’t apply to me, but I still find it very interesting. 👍
Hi Mark, renewable energy and home generation are becoming big topics here. I know in Holland there are some pilot schemes where people charge their cars at home at night on the cheap rate, drive to work, park and plug in, and sell excess car battery power to their employer at higher daytime rates (helping to power the office or plant for less than it costs the employer to buy power from the grid). Also, it won't be too long before the car battery and the home battery are connected so excess car charge can power the home (called 'vehicle to grid'). There are some early schemes for that already here - you can buy v2g systems for the home now. Cheers
Very interesting
Thanks Kimber. Solar panels are still not that common over here although interest is increasing as panels have got a lot cheaper and electricity costs have shot up in the past 18 months due to shortage of Russian gas (about 35% of UK electricity comes from gas-fired power stations). Also with increasing numbers of electric cars having some form of home generation makes sense. Cheers
Hi Paul. Glad to see that the batteries and solar are doing well. I have put in a victron multiplus system with lead gel batteries last week, so I am interested to see how it will perform. As storage goes it is much smaller than yours, but I did it with used batteries so there is instant potential to upgrade kWh storage if it underperforms and bigger batteries will help. As for your tripping issue, on my ABB inverter the installation specifies that you need a 300mA rcd rather than the usual 30mA that is fitted in most houses. Maybe this has something to do with it? I was intermittently getting trips on damp days from an earth leak from the array(I think). Since we have had solar installed, even with a small system like ours, it is difficult to see how every house/garage/workshop/warehouse hasn't got a few panels to save money. Modern panels are over 500w per panel! So roughly 0.25kw/m2. And as you have said elsewhere in the comments they are getting cheaper all the time. But still, we have a grid fuelled by gas with roughly 50% generation and transmission losses! I have noticed since I got panels that how I use energy has shifted. I will try to balance the load throughout the day and only do laundry/dishwasher etc (water boiling activities) during the day. I think that if you don't have batteries this is the best way to get the most savings from the power produced, a feed in tariff is great but using as much as you can before export is best. Oh how I ramble... Cheers!
Hi Owen, great to hear from you. Well your 'ramble' raises some really good points and adds practical depth to the conversation which will help people at the mercy of 'brochure engineering'. If you have the knowledge then starting with DiY batteries is a good way to get up and running without hight cost, which can then inform choices before spending too much. We had our outbuilding feed on a 30mA RCD supplying various high load items, motors and whatnot, and adding the inverter on top was just too much leakage. The total leakage was only occasionally above 30mA though as I could not get it to trip by just turning things on and off manually. The installer split the feed and spread the load adding RCBOs in the consumer unit. I read that poly crystal panels were about 13% efficient and mono crystal (the modern ones) are about 21% efficient. It's going up all the time. It's amazing - most of the time our house could run on one £150 panel (when the sun is up). Don't get me started on wholesale electricity prices - solar and wind generation is so much cheaper than gas-fired generation yet the prices are held high to subsidise gas and nuclear. As the % of green energy increase this situation will become undefendable. Our nightime import tariff is 14p and our export tariff is 15p so allowing for some losses they balance. The most important thing is to avoid drawing on the expensive daytime tariff. Yes, solar is a no-brainer if you have the capital to buy it and the roof to put it on. Cheers
Interesting stuff Paul. I wonder how the system would perform for a less tech savvy layman, who just has it fitted and leaves it to its own devices?
Hi Matt, the key is to always ensure, if there is no sun, that the battery is charged enough at night to avoid drawing expensive electricity off the grid in the daytime. Now it turns out our night import rate is 14p and our export rate is 15p so if we do 'over-charge' the battery at night and solar goes to export then there is no financial penalty. But in the future I'm sure Givenergy will add weather forecast adaption, taking into account tariff, so the system will automatically charge the battery fully at night if the next day is going to be dull. I have a home smart thermostat that works in a similar way (called Tado), and it's an easy incremental add-on to a cloud-based system which can control the inverter and battery parameters remotely. So, maybe in future the householders won't need to be so tech-smart to get the lowest electricity bills. Cheers
The Not have a MCs scheme charges you £250 to join and will only be for a select few on a trial scheme
I do indeed set my charge times to coincide with the cheap periods on octopus agile, my September average was 11p per kilowatt hour.
My bill for September was £23, and that includes the standing charge.
Hi Ian, thanks for the detail. We've only had our system 6 months and every household is different but I predict we'll export 1800 to 2000 kWh over 12 months. At 15p/kWh that would recover the £250 in a year or less. Cheers
Hey very interesting. Is the "cloud" option from Giv Energy/Octopus free or does it take a monthly payment? Don't remember if you said it in one of the last videos ? And also I have to say go on I like the way you'r doing your canal and the themes are totally my thing. Thank you for doing that.
Hi Florian, there are no ongoing charges for the Givenergy cloud dashboard, reporting, firmware updates or any element of ongoing service after you have purchased the equipment. I'm glad you like the mix of content. It will always be mostly-workshop but I will always break out into a few other topics occasionally. I try to make the channel interesting. In truth the do-it-yourself videos normally get a lot more views than workshop videos, but I am not particularly chasing views. Cheers
I found this interesting. Where we live, our electric rate is the same all day and does not fluctuate. I am not even sure that's an option with any of the energy suppliers around here. I've heard of that being the case for industrial customers, but not residential. Perhaps you said it in the previous video, but based on what you're experiencing today, how long before all of the costs of the system have been recouped as a result of savings on your electric bill?
Hi Greg, the short answer is about 8 years. The long answer is it depends on electricity prices and inflation. Higher electricity prices = shorter payback. Higher $inflation = shorter payback because the value of your original investment, expressed in today's prices, falls away quicker. It's basically a bet. Panels are still coming down in price quickly. Batteries are still expensive but prices will fall gradually with scale and new technologies - in three years I reckon they will be 25% cheaper (that's just an uneducated guess). Most UK energy retailers still only offer flat rate or economy 7. There are newer 'challenger' companies offering the smart tariffs which offer great savings to customers with elec cars, panels, batteries, heat pumps etc. Cheers
Hiya. Can I ask if your GivEnergy installers gave you full administration access to the hardware you own?
Hi SOUK, I have a normal customer logon. The installer logon has a few more functions like commissioning. I don't have the installer account, what I'm showing any customer can do. It produces loads of data I can view in the portal and/or download to a spreadsheet. It's extensive, the normal stuff but also inverter voltages and all sorts. Customers do their own firmware updates by 'self-service'. On the My Inverter page it will say if a firmware update is available and guides you through. It's not complicated - like updating a phone. Cheers
Interesting video…What is the approximate cost of the system installed?
Hi the basic system was about £12.5k including the Lora radios. Then there was the bird protection for the panels and some electrical work to expand capacity in the consumer unit on top. Panels are still coming down in price and I've noticed the batteries are down about 10% since we got the quotes for ours about 10 months ago. Cheers