They certainly might as well have, and I wonder why they even bother publishing news at this point since I've never once heard them referenced for anything along those lines in my life.
Oh yeah, I forgot at one point they were the standard newspaper you could get delivered to your door at every hotel. Man has it really been that long since I last saw one?!
I am currently working as a researcher in an international lab, side to side with people from Princeton, MIT, Berkley, etc. I did my education in a mid tier Spanish university. It turns out that physics is the same everywhere, so we all have the same level. What Ivy League-like universities offer are connections and prestige, not more or better knowledge. On the flip side, I do not have student debt, versus the tens (and sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars of some of my peers. I say this not to be smug, but to tell people that you do not need to go bankrupt to get an education (and that the US university system is a scam designed to pay for expensive football teams).
The students who play on the teams don’t get paid! But stadiums and managers do cost money. Harvard has a lot of money going towards funds and endowment (whatever that is my European brain can’t comprehend or retain) and they even have a vineyard (and not to study grapes). My school is absolutely obsessed with rankings and while I understand it attracts foreign students who spend more money there’s other priorities and being happy that you’re the 99th place in 100 always sounds sad to me.
There's a huge difference You're eating dinner next to a future President or Secretary of State Showering with future CEO's Partying with future Supreme Court Justices But...perhaps you meant there's no difference in the education Ya...ok....no difference there
It's extremely funny (in a sad way) to me that i have the exact same job as people who are at least $100k in debt getting the same degree, while i went somewhere cheap enough to be paid for by the pell grant
@@notlikely4468 Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing he is talking about. It matters more for law school and things involving business. Corporate finance, IB, etc. That is where you get the Goldman internship rolling into 80 hour work weeks handed to you. It's like the farm leagues for baseball. Different with Healthcare though unless you want to do research and get massive grants rubberstamped because you're at some prestigious name school with a big endowment and connections to politics. As long as you didn't get your MD from ITT Tech, you're probably gonna do just fine.
Here's my 2cents as a med student. Ranking doesn't matter. As long as your doctor 1) finished med school, 2) completed residency, 3) genuinely cares about you, then you're fine as a patient. Top schools don't always produce caring doctors.
Also all accredited med school programs in USA & Canada are standardized and interchangeable. The whole point of standardized education is that there is a level of quality to practice medicine. So if you pass all the standardized tests, it really shouldn't matter which university you went to. The richer ones have nicer labs and fancier gear, but they all teach medicine.
As a West European, the study mattered more than the school when it came down to status. You can get in any uni given the right papers, but some studies require a little extra. Med school and dentist being the most common, but sometimes also law and vet school. In Germany psychology is difficult to enter I heard.
Well if they get into and finish med school they will help kick out the ladder that let them in to increase their own salarly like the ama has been doing of years.
@@VitoIsPuffBunny of course. Who would not want their salary to increase? If i was a doctor I wouldn't want anymore doctors lol. Look what nursing lobby is doing. They are trying to stop expansion of nursing schools at all cost
Traditions are important for laying the foundation for life. Pick any tradition and it will be “easier” than going off on your own. Easier does NOT mean better though. But you have to start somewhere bud.
The -imothys are the true heroes, keeping their respective companies from becoming full-fledged cartoon supervillains instead of full-fledged cartoon villains.
goddamn, Bimothy got some balls. Timothy was cowering at the first sight if an incivility, Bimothy just straight up slapped his boss in the face. here's hoping Timothy got a better and kinder job and Bimothy can kickstart the boss's redemption arc.
The PHD webcomic archives do a pretty good job of satirising (or documenting) the student and academic experience across many fields. Different and much older format. Early stuff is the best.
At 35, the best med school will be the one that accepts me as a nontrad with mediocre grades, a mediocre mcat, and 25,000 hours of experience as a medic. I just wanna embody the rural medicine/emergency medicine life
My unsolicited advice: get tons of feedback from trustworthy sources regarding your personal statement and application essays. Mediocre scores can be overcome if you highlight your other strengths well! Listen to Medical School HQ (Dr. Gray) - especially his application renovation series. His advice really changed the game for me. Best of luck!!
Doesn't matter what med school I go to, M.D., D.O., couldn't care less. I want to be a doctor, not an ego driven maniac. As long as I get into a med school I'll be happy, I'll be taking one more step towards my dreams, and one more step towards saving lives. I once knew someone who was completely disgusted at the thought that I would consider attending a state D.O. school, It's a fine looking school with a personal connection to my peoples history (Native American). I even have a potential full-ride opportunity assuming I work within a facility which treats my people for a few years. I'm still in undergrad, and my GPA isn't pretty at the moment thanks to a whole host of issues I've faced the last few years (Family deaths, Covid-19, loss of job, very non-trad college journey spanning three degree paths which wrecked my GPA, etc.) but I don't. I will do everything I can to redeem myself and become the best doctor I can be, I will try and try again, study, apply everywhere within reason, and I will make them tell me no. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
That's the right attitude. Once you're a doctor, nobody cares where you studies. After all, when was the last time you asked your doctor where they studied? It's just not something people care about.
@@m136dalie All my favorite Docs have told me their education journey during appointments. It seems to come up in conversation somehow. Or maybe I look at their certificates and then ask nosy questions. The world may never know.
As a patient, I really don't care what degrees are hanging on the wall.... I care about the care and respect I receive. You have a lot of integrity, dedication, and the right motivation.... you're gonna be a great doctor!
Keep working hard! It’s a rough ride but attitude is everything. My son joined the Air Force to pay for his medical education. You will be a great doc.
Good for you! Hope you reach your goals :) unfortunately, the reality is that the prestige of your med school influences where you match into residency, and the prestige of your residency influences where you match for fellowship
I went to a local Community College for my first 2 years of college getting an Associates Degree in Business and Accounting. I then transferred to DePaul University which is a highly ranked university known for their accounting program. DePaul was on 10 week quarters and Moraine Valley CC was on 17 week semesters. When I was taking my 1st accounting classes at DePaul the other students who had been enrolled at DePaul didn't even know many different accounting terms, calculations etc that I was taught at the Community College! I'm glad I saved a boat load of $$$ at the highly ranked CC! When we walked across that stage to get our DePaul Diplomas I got the same piece of paper they did - it just didn't cost as much!
Having worked on the USNWR ranking for my children’s hospital, I can tell you all it’s a game and it’s all about money. So their specialty groups are primarily comprised of big names from big institutions or hospitals who will rewrite or add questions to make their institutions look better and give them an advantage. It’s not necessarily reflective of the actual care or education institutions or hospitals being ranked provide. Just a money game that I can’t ethically get behind any longer.
I attended Physician Assistant program at a very small university about a hundred years ago. I was concerned my "fund of knowledge" would be lacking but later found myself well able to hold my own with graduates of far more prestigious schools. Of course, our Clinical Med instructor was a holy terror who never let us get away with rote answers and made us defend our opinions. He taught us to think!
This....was awesome. Signed, a parent of a former Jonathan who is in med school Ps these rankings made me sick with worry Pps if you or your child gets into med school, seriously, way to go and congratulations
oh my, your child will have the ultimate dream of every doctor - a Jonathan of their very own, BUT BUILT INTO THEIR OWN SELF!?! They will be a god amongst men.
Honestly it's time that more people know the more expensive a school is doesn't make it better. I went to a state college for nursing school and it was a great learning experience. I tend to look for NCLEX pass rates and how fast you can get a job after graduation 👍
So true. There's a couple state university near me with a great med schools, PA school, and college of nursing. My sister loves to tell the story of the one employee she had to fire who went to Yale. In her words: "Apparently Yale accepts idiots, because that woman was a moron!" Ivy league ain't everything 😁
It’s different in medicine, better med school makes people think they have a better shot at the residency they want. If you got 2 students 1 from Harvard 1 from southwest arksansas state tech a&m school of medicine 1 may get the ortho residency, 1 has to work in family medicine with Texaco mike
I’ve attended both Ivy League and community college. I don’t think the fact that I attend a prestigious school has any bearing on my worth as a person. But there absolutely is a difference in terms of the academic rigor and the research opportunities available in many “highly ranked” schools. I always respect other people’s educational paths and I appreciate when they afford me the same courtesy and not try to convince me (without proof) that my school is some elitist scam. And this comment really isn’t defensive, it’s just meant to offer another perspective from someone who has seen both sides of the spectrum firsthand.
Love Bimothy! My two cents though are that while this is a great gesture, I am not sure if it will really cause a seismic shift at least in the short term. Mainly because schools like Harvard are so well-equipped with resources and connections and are so well publicized in relation to many other schools that they don't really need the ranking; even without it, they have several other ways of making applicants look at them as the superior schools. The proof is in the fact that their pulling out of the ranking system is in itself gaining so much publicity, which is increasing their reputuation all the more. If a school ranked 93 or above removed themselves from the system, we probably wouldn't hear of it. The onus therefore is really on the media to highlight those schools that, although not highly ranked by US World News, are providing unique and invaluable opportunities to their students and leaving a positive impact as much as Harvard and Stanford are. It's that "equity of press" so to speak which will give students a much better idea of what schools are the best fit for them, rather than setting a few schools on a pedestal above others for all students regardless of their goals or requirements. This increased attention will in turn lead to those schools receiving the kinds of resources, connections, and funds that the Harvards and Stanfords of the country get. That's when the ranking will really lose its value. Easier said than done, but something worth aspiring for and working toward as future physicians (hopefully an ophthalmologist in my case :D) and proud future alumni who will give back to our respective alma maters. Thanks for spreading awareness as always Dr. Glaucomflecken!
This is spot on when it comes to the media's relationship with university reputation. I find that one of the most telling examples of this is the University of California San Francisco. If someone isn't from that general area and also doesn't work in a medical or science field, they've most likely never heard of UCSF. Yet in medicine and biosciences that school is the equal of Harvard and Stanford. It's just that the cultural brand name isn't universally recognizable like MIT, Stanford, Harvard, and Yale (as the most famous examples), so the name of the school isn't something that yields clicks all on its own. Very much a self-perpetuating state of affairs.
After guiding one of my high school students through the application process-including the dreaded essay-she was accepted to U of M’s college of nursing. After getting the happy news, I asked her if she was excited about attending. “Well, I’ve decided to go to Grand Valley,” she answered sheepishly. “What? Why?” I wanted to know. “It’s cheaper for one thing,” she replied, “And besides, they have a study-abroad arrangement with a school in England, which I like because I want to work in international medicine.” I was so proud. (Full disclosure: I did some post-grad work at State, so there’s that.)
@@Jacob-ye7gu Also you are objectively wrong. First, there are career options for Doctors who choose to not pursue residency. Second, your Americentric worldview is showing, many nations' medical systems do not have residency and when you graduate medical school you are employed as a junior doctor. Finally, regardless of residency status you are still a doctor if you graduate medical school, you have MD behind your name, you deserve all of the respect that title entails, which is an accomplishment you could only dream of and never actually achieve. Unless you are in medicine to which I respond, you are unkind your patients leave you bad reviews, you are the problem not the solution, you should retire boomer. Your opinion is wrong, you are bad and you should feel bad.
@@medmahieddine so if you must know, I am pressed because I am a medical student with an incredible amount of imposter syndrome. His comment was not inoffensive, it was deeply hurtful and spoke to my insecurities. It is also kinda just rude to respond to a lighthearted uplifting comment with an undertone of "you don't have to be perfect to be good", with a tear down "you will fail" attitude. For a broader context, in medicine there is a deeply underlying pressure of perfectionism. We are shamed if we're not the best, we're told on a regular basis we're not good enough, and our mistakes will kill people. There is a culture of malignant physicians who view everyone who doesn't meet their arbitrary and esoteric standards as beneath them. This is a direction medicine is moving away from for the better. There is a combative culture among many medical students of tearing down other students so there is less competition for the top slots. Students who 'gun' for the top slots at the expense of other students (actively providing misinformation to other students so they fail an exam, badmouthing students to their attending physician, pushing (sometimes physically) other students out of the OR for the chance to scrub in, etc). His comment plays into these archaic and outdated physician and medical student dynamics. There is no room for perfectionism in medicine.
TLDR, his comment had "gunner energy" (if you don't know look it up) which is damaging to medicine as a whole and presents an idea that only the best doctors are good and all else are failures.
It’s funny that you mention these top schools because they send recruiters to my university’s bio department every year to recruit us for internships and even early acceptance programs. And their administrators love to give us tips on how to increase our chances of being accepted into which grad school we choose
To be honest when I was deciding which med school to go for I had no idea what the rankings were actually based on, people and culture mattered most to me. When I found out what they were actually based on it made my school's "decent rank" feel even more worthless. The big ranking people look at is literally just "how much $ did you spend on research last year?" ... And no qualifications like what the research was on, you could spend $10 billion researching the relationship between punctsotony phil seeing his shadow and the incidence rate of genital herpes and you would be ranked #1.... I will NOT miss this system.
My college celebrated when it crossed the top 100 in the general rankings. They gave up so much of what made the school good to do it. No surprise when none of the students celebrated. Long story short: most people went to my school because it was industry focused and even made all Engineering degrees 5 year programs so all students could take 2 semesters to work full time in our fields. The school has been hard pivoting into rebranding as a research institution because it looks better in the rankings.
Students should be taught the largest factor on how well you do after school is how well you apply what you learned in school. Not what school you went to.
sounds like law schools, business schools...basically all 'professional' schools want to know the last time the law school I went to mattered? The day I had to register with NY and they ask what law school you earned your JD from
I am extremely entertained at the thought of Dr G slapping himself in the face while trying to look like someone else is slapping him in the face. That can not have been an easy shot to take.
Honestly, having looked at all of the rankings this past year while deciding which schools I applied to… the “rank” of a school meant next to nothing in my decision making. The point isnt to go to an Ivy school. The point is to help people the best way I know how.
school prestige matters a lot in residency applications. this process is disgusting and brutal but we are in it and you should know. if you go to harvard medical school it will be a lot easier to do whatever you want wherever you want afterwards
Law schools started doing this a few months ago, glad it's happening in med too (hope the changes stick for both) A good lil bit of overcompetitive school solidarity
@@DGlaucomflecken Yes it doesn't. In my country, our "Ivy leagues" are the so called "1st generation Universities". During Housemanship (Internship), one gets to realise that their products aren't any better than the rest despite the zillions of professors in their faculties.
Thats an honorable move by the med schools thats been ranking high on US News. However, there remains the demand of a rank. There will be another ranking system to replace this one, which will probably be full of subjectivity and based on even less data.
As a current medical student in a DO program, I take boards. I can take MD boards as well as have to take my own, DO specific, boards. I can specialize in any specialty I want when I get my degree. I have to go through residency like the graduates from Yale and Stanford and Harvard do to practice medicine. Heck, I might be in a residency program with some of those graduates. Then I have to take a test to practice in my state of choice like graduates from all the top schools. The layman does not care where your training came from, they just want to know you have the knowledge to help/fix them and that you do it without being a pompous jerk. Medical school is medical school. All the schools have to present the same basic information for accreditation from their accrediting body. How that info is presented, how soon you see patients, where you live for your training, HOW MUCH IT COSTS mean so much more in picking or applying to a certain programs than what they actually teach you because it's all the same since we all have to take boards to prove that we have competency at the end of the day.
Unfortunately, I suspect now the “ranking” will just be implicit and people with little experience with the american college system will not have as much of a benchmark
Rankings strip us of wonderful experiences in order to obtain just one number. One school might be better in research, the other in patient care (hard to measure btw.). One has great surgery the others a life. And you will never know by a ranking where you will find your true love.
You're definitely right about Harvard, except it's about their alumni not being able to shut up about being from there. If anything I hear Harvard and I'm already 70% annoyed.
This feels like such a uniquely American thing too. I don't know about medicine, but this has been a subject of discussion with lawyers I've worked for on both sides of the border. Like, to look down on someone because they got their degree at the University of Calgary instead of, say, McGill (which I have heard jokingly called the Harvard of Canada) would be laughable because they're all basically the same.
@@MyspacHor911 To be honest I've had doctors from both Harvard and Caribbean schools and the ones from the Caribbean are excellent. Actually, they know more about nutrition and alternative medicine than the US medical school grads. They also don't immediately jump to the most expensive medicine/treatment when a less costly alternative is available.
@@MyspacHor911 That's not been my experience. It's pretty foolish to think docs from American medical schools never commit fraud or inappropriate behavior.
Adapt the German system. No rankings, everyone works at where they want to, not where they are told to go and we don’t have to call insurance companies for pre authorization. Love from Germany ❤
I think this is great! There’s plenty of people who would make great physicians that can’t afford Stanford. Maybe this will make things more equal across the board. There’s nothing wrong with State schools. There’s nothing wrong with taking some pre reqs at a community college. What’s wrong is when you owe more in student loans than your house is worth, if you can afford one
Michigan also pulled out of the system. On a side note, for Harvard PhDs there is a question on the application "How did you hear about Harvard?" How did I hear about the most well known insulation of higher education in the English speaking world? I don't know‽
The one I do think has some value, even if it probably helps reinforce biases against less prestigious programs, is their ranking of med schools compiled from residency program directors
I was a biochemist undergrad so worked alongside undergrad medics sometimes (I love Dr G jokes about the Krebs cycle because I know med students hated it all) and the top universities tend to attract the best students and that is all. How good a doctor they turn out to be is due to a lot of other factors. That said, I know a few really good ones that did go to a top med school, very decent human beings and great with patients. They are at the top of their professions and very well deserved.
@@murraysolomon4924 you would be surprised.. there's always some hick-town hospital willing to hire anyone. I grew up in it. I was molded by it. I didnt get quality medical care until I was already a man lol
Law schools dropping out made sense because school ranking plays a huge factor in job placement but for healthcare school ranking doesn't really matter so I think med schools dropping out is more just grandstanding than anything
Yeah I remember the med school rankings being seen as a BIG deal on premed forums and stuff, but the effect is has on your quality of education and residency matching prospects is pretty miniscule. I mean you certainly get some bragging rights from going to harvard/stanford/john hopkins, but that would be true even without the official rank list.
schools dropping out is still a good thing-it might not matter to a job, but a student won't know that if they're seeing these sorts of rankings from seemingly legitimate news platforms
@Dglaucomflecken please if you know any veterinarians enough to parse out their personalities I would love to see you do some skits on them. I studied pre-vet and they definitely are their own sort of people. Your rural doc gets pretty close to a large animal vet personality and they have a lot of the same challenges.
I love the UK; it does not matter where you attend university. No one in the hospital cares if you went to Oxbridge, St Andrew or Plymouth university as long as pass med school and you can safely do the work and hopefully can communicate with patients.
what you did before med school doesn't really matter. It's what you do in med school that makes you a great doctor. Some of the DOs I met during my training were one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. Knew every single questions, knew everything about patient care. Absolute beasts
This is NOT a paid promotion for the LS-82Z, but it should be. Really a wonderful machine.
Makes the EL-243s look like a paperweight.
The new LS-82Z! The only Jonathan approved calculator on the market!
It is no match for the power of the TI 92 graphing calculator and blunt instrument for fighting off a bear attack!
yeah yeah i know a Big Calculator shill when i see one
Texas Instruments has been the top ranking calculator for decades how dare you 😤
Jimothy keeps the insurance companies honest
Bimothy keeps the news agencies honest
I'm curious to find out what Kimothy, Pimothy, Simothy, and Fimothy are up to.
@@cbpd89 and Limothy, Mimothy, Nimothy, Yimothy and Zimothy 🤔
I think Bimothy had more success in this one episode than Jimothy has had in his entire life
Kimothy? Thoughts?
Tries to, at least. I wouldn't say they've been successful so far. But they have my full support.
Fun fact: US News and World Report stopped publishing actual news in 2010 to focus on just college rankings
They certainly might as well have, and I wonder why they even bother publishing news at this point since I've never once heard them referenced for anything along those lines in my life.
TBF, they also rank cars.
With occasional hospital rankings thrown in.
You missed the part where they rank cars…
Oh yeah, I forgot at one point they were the standard newspaper you could get delivered to your door at every hotel. Man has it really been that long since I last saw one?!
I am currently working as a researcher in an international lab, side to side with people from Princeton, MIT, Berkley, etc. I did my education in a mid tier Spanish university.
It turns out that physics is the same everywhere, so we all have the same level.
What Ivy League-like universities offer are connections and prestige, not more or better knowledge.
On the flip side, I do not have student debt, versus the tens (and sometimes hundreds) of thousands of dollars of some of my peers. I say this not to be smug, but to tell people that you do not need to go bankrupt to get an education (and that the US university system is a scam designed to pay for expensive football teams).
The students who play on the teams don’t get paid! But stadiums and managers do cost money. Harvard has a lot of money going towards funds and endowment (whatever that is my European brain can’t comprehend or retain) and they even have a vineyard (and not to study grapes).
My school is absolutely obsessed with rankings and while I understand it attracts foreign students who spend more money there’s other priorities and being happy that you’re the 99th place in 100 always sounds sad to me.
There's a huge difference
You're eating dinner next to a future President or Secretary of State
Showering with future CEO's
Partying with future Supreme Court Justices
But...perhaps you meant there's no difference in the education
Ya...ok....no difference there
@@notlikely4468 ...op literally said that. "they offer connections and prestige".
It's extremely funny (in a sad way) to me that i have the exact same job as people who are at least $100k in debt getting the same degree, while i went somewhere cheap enough to be paid for by the pell grant
@@notlikely4468 Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing he is talking about. It matters more for law school and things involving business. Corporate finance, IB, etc. That is where you get the Goldman internship rolling into 80 hour work weeks handed to you. It's like the farm leagues for baseball. Different with Healthcare though unless you want to do research and get massive grants rubberstamped because you're at some prestigious name school with a big endowment and connections to politics.
As long as you didn't get your MD from ITT Tech, you're probably gonna do just fine.
Here's my 2cents as a med student.
Ranking doesn't matter. As long as your doctor 1) finished med school, 2) completed residency, 3) genuinely cares about you, then you're fine as a patient.
Top schools don't always produce caring doctors.
Also all accredited med school programs in USA & Canada are standardized and interchangeable. The whole point of standardized education is that there is a level of quality to practice medicine. So if you pass all the standardized tests, it really shouldn't matter which university you went to. The richer ones have nicer labs and fancier gear, but they all teach medicine.
As a West European, the study mattered more than the school when it came down to status. You can get in any uni given the right papers, but some studies require a little extra. Med school and dentist being the most common, but sometimes also law and vet school. In Germany psychology is difficult to enter I heard.
Hey, even resident doctors do a lot of good. So, even those who didn't complete it yet but are working on it are fine too!
meanwhile every med student: “it’s so competitive. i’ll go to whichever school accepts me”
HAHAHAH SO TRUE
Well if they get into and finish med school they will help kick out the ladder that let them in to increase their own salarly like the ama has been doing of years.
@@VitoIsPuffBunny of course. Who would not want their salary to increase? If i was a doctor I wouldn't want anymore doctors lol. Look what nursing lobby is doing. They are trying to stop expansion of nursing schools at all cost
Bimothy: "Why do we even need to do the rankings?
Ranker: "Tradition."
Bimothy: "You mean peer pressure from those who have passed away?"
Ohhhhh snap
I'm stealing that!
Peer pressure from dead people, as Beau of the Fifth Column would say :D
Traditions are important for laying the foundation for life.
Pick any tradition and it will be “easier” than going off on your own.
Easier does NOT mean better though. But you have to start somewhere bud.
I’m hearing fiddler on the roof 😄
The -imothys are the true heroes, keeping their respective companies from becoming full-fledged cartoon supervillains instead of full-fledged cartoon villains.
Don’t forget the -istophers too!
I'm not sure how Harvard and Yale will survive!!!
Poor Yale. With their "do whatever you want" curriculum and now this, they are surely to fail accreditation!
Everybody will think they suck now
It's called massive endowments
@@murraysolomon4924 apparently it's not obvious I was being sarcastic
goddamn, Bimothy got some balls. Timothy was cowering at the first sight if an incivility, Bimothy just straight up slapped his boss in the face. here's hoping Timothy got a better and kinder job and Bimothy can kickstart the boss's redemption arc.
nah, Bimothy is frankly irredeemable, have timothy overthrow the boss and take over the company
redemption arc... So Bimothy's boss is gonna do a crypto scam next?
@@acebalistic1358 Bimothy or the boss?
@@deputyrook6232 both
As a PhD student I wish someone did satire about my field like you do about medicine 😂
You could be that person! Untapped market and all!
Yeah man, be the change you want so see
The PHD webcomic archives do a pretty good job of satirising (or documenting) the student and academic experience across many fields. Different and much older format. Early stuff is the best.
Do it!
Doooo it. Be the change you want to see. Your people need you.
A news agency reporting on the news instead of ranking things? NOOOOOOO!!!!
At 35, the best med school will be the one that accepts me as a nontrad with mediocre grades, a mediocre mcat, and 25,000 hours of experience as a medic.
I just wanna embody the rural medicine/emergency medicine life
amen
Get to know Texaco Mike.
Good luck to you!
My unsolicited advice: get tons of feedback from trustworthy sources regarding your personal statement and application essays. Mediocre scores can be overcome if you highlight your other strengths well! Listen to Medical School HQ (Dr. Gray) - especially his application renovation series. His advice really changed the game for me. Best of luck!!
NEW IMOTHY JUST DROPPED
That line about gauging your self worth and intelligence based on where you get accepted…I felt a tear well up in my eye 🥲
Doesn't matter what med school I go to, M.D., D.O., couldn't care less. I want to be a doctor, not an ego driven maniac. As long as I get into a med school I'll be happy, I'll be taking one more step towards my dreams, and one more step towards saving lives. I once knew someone who was completely disgusted at the thought that I would consider attending a state D.O. school, It's a fine looking school with a personal connection to my peoples history (Native American). I even have a potential full-ride opportunity assuming I work within a facility which treats my people for a few years. I'm still in undergrad, and my GPA isn't pretty at the moment thanks to a whole host of issues I've faced the last few years (Family deaths, Covid-19, loss of job, very non-trad college journey spanning three degree paths which wrecked my GPA, etc.) but I don't. I will do everything I can to redeem myself and become the best doctor I can be, I will try and try again, study, apply everywhere within reason, and I will make them tell me no.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
That's the right attitude. Once you're a doctor, nobody cares where you studies.
After all, when was the last time you asked your doctor where they studied? It's just not something people care about.
@@m136dalie All my favorite Docs have told me their education journey during appointments. It seems to come up in conversation somehow. Or maybe I look at their certificates and then ask nosy questions. The world may never know.
As a patient, I really don't care what degrees are hanging on the wall.... I care about the care and respect I receive.
You have a lot of integrity, dedication, and the right motivation.... you're gonna be a great doctor!
Keep working hard! It’s a rough ride but attitude is everything. My son joined the Air Force to pay for his medical education. You will be a great doc.
Good for you! Hope you reach your goals :) unfortunately, the reality is that the prestige of your med school influences where you match into residency, and the prestige of your residency influences where you match for fellowship
I went to a local Community College for my first 2 years of college getting an Associates Degree in Business and Accounting. I then transferred to DePaul University which is a highly ranked university known for their accounting program. DePaul was on 10 week quarters and Moraine Valley CC was on 17 week semesters. When I was taking my 1st accounting classes at DePaul the other students who had been enrolled at DePaul didn't even know many different accounting terms, calculations etc that I was taught at the Community College!
I'm glad I saved a boat load of $$$ at the highly ranked CC! When we walked across that stage to get our DePaul Diplomas I got the same piece of paper they did - it just didn't cost as much!
Having worked on the USNWR ranking for my children’s hospital, I can tell you all it’s a game and it’s all about money. So their specialty groups are primarily comprised of big names from big institutions or hospitals who will rewrite or add questions to make their institutions look better and give them an advantage. It’s not necessarily reflective of the actual care or education institutions or hospitals being ranked provide. Just a money game that I can’t ethically get behind any longer.
I attended Physician Assistant program at a very small university about a hundred years ago. I was concerned my "fund of knowledge" would be lacking but later found myself well able to hold my own with graduates of far more prestigious schools. Of course, our Clinical Med instructor was a holy terror who never let us get away with rote answers and made us defend our opinions. He taught us to think!
This....was awesome.
Signed, a parent of a former Jonathan who is in med school
Ps these rankings made me sick with worry
Pps if you or your child gets into med school, seriously, way to go and congratulations
oh my, your child will have the ultimate dream of every doctor - a Jonathan of their very own, BUT BUILT INTO THEIR OWN SELF!?! They will be a god amongst men.
@@narre71 🤣
Honestly it's time that more people know the more expensive a school is doesn't make it better. I went to a state college for nursing school and it was a great learning experience. I tend to look for NCLEX pass rates and how fast you can get a job after graduation 👍
So true. There's a couple state university near me with a great med schools, PA school, and college of nursing. My sister loves to tell the story of the one employee she had to fire who went to Yale. In her words: "Apparently Yale accepts idiots, because that woman was a moron!"
Ivy league ain't everything 😁
ivy leagues/stanford do end up being cheaper in the long run as long as you're a part of the working class and make less than 100k
It’s different in medicine, better med school makes people think they have a better shot at the residency they want. If you got 2 students 1 from Harvard 1 from southwest arksansas state tech a&m school of medicine 1 may get the ortho residency, 1 has to work in family medicine with Texaco mike
I’ve attended both Ivy League and community college. I don’t think the fact that I attend a prestigious school has any bearing on my worth as a person. But there absolutely is a difference in terms of the academic rigor and the research opportunities available in many “highly ranked” schools. I always respect other people’s educational paths and I appreciate when they afford me the same courtesy and not try to convince me (without proof) that my school is some elitist scam.
And this comment really isn’t defensive, it’s just meant to offer another perspective from someone who has seen both sides of the spectrum firsthand.
Don't matter which medschool you go to, First Aid is your curriculum
Love Bimothy! My two cents though are that while this is a great gesture, I am not sure if it will really cause a seismic shift at least in the short term. Mainly because schools like Harvard are so well-equipped with resources and connections and are so well publicized in relation to many other schools that they don't really need the ranking; even without it, they have several other ways of making applicants look at them as the superior schools. The proof is in the fact that their pulling out of the ranking system is in itself gaining so much publicity, which is increasing their reputuation all the more. If a school ranked 93 or above removed themselves from the system, we probably wouldn't hear of it. The onus therefore is really on the media to highlight those schools that, although not highly ranked by US World News, are providing unique and invaluable opportunities to their students and leaving a positive impact as much as Harvard and Stanford are. It's that "equity of press" so to speak which will give students a much better idea of what schools are the best fit for them, rather than setting a few schools on a pedestal above others for all students regardless of their goals or requirements. This increased attention will in turn lead to those schools receiving the kinds of resources, connections, and funds that the Harvards and Stanfords of the country get. That's when the ranking will really lose its value. Easier said than done, but something worth aspiring for and working toward as future physicians (hopefully an ophthalmologist in my case :D) and proud future alumni who will give back to our respective alma maters. Thanks for spreading awareness as always Dr. Glaucomflecken!
This is spot on when it comes to the media's relationship with university reputation.
I find that one of the most telling examples of this is the University of California San Francisco. If someone isn't from that general area and also doesn't work in a medical or science field, they've most likely never heard of UCSF. Yet in medicine and biosciences that school is the equal of Harvard and Stanford. It's just that the cultural brand name isn't universally recognizable like MIT, Stanford, Harvard, and Yale (as the most famous examples), so the name of the school isn't something that yields clicks all on its own.
Very much a self-perpetuating state of affairs.
Let us not forget about Tristopher, doing his best to keep the research journals honest!
After guiding one of my high school students through the application process-including the dreaded essay-she was accepted to U of M’s college of nursing. After getting the happy news, I asked her if she was excited about attending.
“Well, I’ve decided to go to Grand Valley,” she answered sheepishly. “What? Why?” I wanted to know. “It’s cheaper for one thing,” she replied, “And besides, they have a study-abroad arrangement with a school in England, which I like because I want to work in international medicine.”
I was so proud. (Full disclosure: I did some post-grad work at State, so there’s that.)
You know what they call a medical student who graduates last in his class? "Doctor"
no you call them unemployed when they dont get into residency
@@Jacob-ye7gu get your gunner energy out of here, pos malignant toxic mfer
@@Jacob-ye7gu Also you are objectively wrong. First, there are career options for Doctors who choose to not pursue residency. Second, your Americentric worldview is showing, many nations' medical systems do not have residency and when you graduate medical school you are employed as a junior doctor. Finally, regardless of residency status you are still a doctor if you graduate medical school, you have MD behind your name, you deserve all of the respect that title entails, which is an accomplishment you could only dream of and never actually achieve. Unless you are in medicine to which I respond, you are unkind your patients leave you bad reviews, you are the problem not the solution, you should retire boomer. Your opinion is wrong, you are bad and you should feel bad.
@@medmahieddine so if you must know, I am pressed because I am a medical student with an incredible amount of imposter syndrome. His comment was not inoffensive, it was deeply hurtful and spoke to my insecurities. It is also kinda just rude to respond to a lighthearted uplifting comment with an undertone of "you don't have to be perfect to be good", with a tear down "you will fail" attitude. For a broader context, in medicine there is a deeply underlying pressure of perfectionism. We are shamed if we're not the best, we're told on a regular basis we're not good enough, and our mistakes will kill people. There is a culture of malignant physicians who view everyone who doesn't meet their arbitrary and esoteric standards as beneath them. This is a direction medicine is moving away from for the better. There is a combative culture among many medical students of tearing down other students so there is less competition for the top slots. Students who 'gun' for the top slots at the expense of other students (actively providing misinformation to other students so they fail an exam, badmouthing students to their attending physician, pushing (sometimes physically) other students out of the OR for the chance to scrub in, etc). His comment plays into these archaic and outdated physician and medical student dynamics. There is no room for perfectionism in medicine.
TLDR, his comment had "gunner energy" (if you don't know look it up) which is damaging to medicine as a whole and presents an idea that only the best doctors are good and all else are failures.
As a state school graduate, I appreciate your expressing the insecurities created by this process.
Support the removal of school ranking. students have been having nightmares for this .
Thanks for this. Had no idea that all the us news and world report did was rank schools. Now I’m in camp Bimothy about that.
It’s funny that you mention these top schools because they send recruiters to my university’s bio department every year to recruit us for internships and even early acceptance programs. And their administrators love to give us tips on how to increase our chances of being accepted into which grad school we choose
To be honest when I was deciding which med school to go for I had no idea what the rankings were actually based on, people and culture mattered most to me. When I found out what they were actually based on it made my school's "decent rank" feel even more worthless. The big ranking people look at is literally just "how much $ did you spend on research last year?" ... And no qualifications like what the research was on, you could spend $10 billion researching the relationship between punctsotony phil seeing his shadow and the incidence rate of genital herpes and you would be ranked #1.... I will NOT miss this system.
Punxsutawney. You’re welcome. 😄
My college celebrated when it crossed the top 100 in the general rankings. They gave up so much of what made the school good to do it. No surprise when none of the students celebrated.
Long story short: most people went to my school because it was industry focused and even made all Engineering degrees 5 year programs so all students could take 2 semesters to work full time in our fields. The school has been hard pivoting into rebranding as a research institution because it looks better in the rankings.
They way he said "so poor" got me hahah
Do Bimothy, Jimothy, and Bill drink at the same bar? Feel like this would make a good story to share, maybe Bimothy can inspire his pals
Bahaha! Love it, Dr. G! 🤣 My premed advisor told me to apply to 20 med schools. It's all a racket 😒
And every application is so freaking expensive! 😱
Students should be taught the largest factor on how well you do after school is how well you apply what you learned in school. Not what school you went to.
Sadly this is so true about a lot of professions, but there are places that will accept your state schools. Thank you for bringing this up.
you are absolutely brilliant, so true! would love you to do a skit about admin staff in hospitals and their egos (and nurses too!)
sounds like law schools, business schools...basically all 'professional' schools want to know the last time the law school I went to mattered? The day I had to register with NY and they ask what law school you earned your JD from
I am extremely entertained at the thought of Dr G slapping himself in the face while trying to look like someone else is slapping him in the face. That can not have been an easy shot to take.
The rapid zoom-in shots are everything
This is hilarious!! 😂 I think we need a niche Netflix show, starring **the** Dr. Glaucomflecken!!
Honestly, having looked at all of the rankings this past year while deciding which schools I applied to… the “rank” of a school meant next to nothing in my decision making.
The point isnt to go to an Ivy school.
The point is to help people the best way I know how.
school prestige matters a lot in residency applications. this process is disgusting and brutal but we are in it and you should know. if you go to harvard medical school it will be a lot easier to do whatever you want wherever you want afterwards
I would rank this among the top-10 videos you’ve done.
Law schools started doing this a few months ago, glad it's happening in med too (hope the changes stick for both)
A good lil bit of overcompetitive school solidarity
Another great video from the doctor. Keep it going
I just love the character names
Remember kids what they call the last graduate in a medical class... Doctor.
If this is based on something that actually happened, I'm very curious to know what it is, lol!
Yes, top med school are pulling out of the US news and world report rankings which don’t matter anyway
@@DGlaucomflecken Now all we need is to have LegalEagle report on the same for the law school rankings... I think Harvard will be fine.
@@DGlaucomflecken interesting. Thanks!
Time to defoliate all that ivy. It's way overgrown.
@@DGlaucomflecken Yes it doesn't. In my country, our "Ivy leagues" are the so called "1st generation Universities". During Housemanship (Internship), one gets to realise that their products aren't any better than the rest despite the zillions of professors in their faculties.
Thats an honorable move by the med schools thats been ranking high on US News. However, there remains the demand of a rank. There will be another ranking system to replace this one, which will probably be full of subjectivity and based on even less data.
My experience as a doctor- I've never really been asked where I went to school.
As a current medical student in a DO program, I take boards. I can take MD boards as well as have to take my own, DO specific, boards. I can specialize in any specialty I want when I get my degree. I have to go through residency like the graduates from Yale and Stanford and Harvard do to practice medicine. Heck, I might be in a residency program with some of those graduates. Then I have to take a test to practice in my state of choice like graduates from all the top schools. The layman does not care where your training came from, they just want to know you have the knowledge to help/fix them and that you do it without being a pompous jerk. Medical school is medical school. All the schools have to present the same basic information for accreditation from their accrediting body. How that info is presented, how soon you see patients, where you live for your training, HOW MUCH IT COSTS mean so much more in picking or applying to a certain programs than what they actually teach you because it's all the same since we all have to take boards to prove that we have competency at the end of the day.
US PGY-1 here and today I learned that there are med school rankings.
Unfortunately, I suspect now the “ranking” will just be implicit and people with little experience with the american college system will not have as much of a benchmark
Ah Bimothy and Jimothy, the voices of reason in greedy and unreasonable companies.
If only every sector had an -imothy to inject some humanity into its proceedings and decision making processes.
This is the same thing for law schools as well. Great video.
Genius as always. You had me at Bimothy.
Rankings strip us of wonderful experiences in order to obtain just one number. One school might be better in research, the other in patient care (hard to measure btw.). One has great surgery the others a life. And you will never know by a ranking where you will find your true love.
You're definitely right about Harvard, except it's about their alumni not being able to shut up about being from there.
If anything I hear Harvard and I'm already 70% annoyed.
You left out the "the" It's the The Harvard Medical School
Okay, I may have dribbled a little, laughing, at "Bimothy." 🤣
Killed it again, bro!
The ivy leagues have left the rankings! How will we make any money?!
Interest from gigantic endowments
This feels like such a uniquely American thing too. I don't know about medicine, but this has been a subject of discussion with lawyers I've worked for on both sides of the border. Like, to look down on someone because they got their degree at the University of Calgary instead of, say, McGill (which I have heard jokingly called the Harvard of Canada) would be laughable because they're all basically the same.
Oh yeah definitely, because an Ivy League is the same as a Caribbean school
@@MyspacHor911 To be honest I've had doctors from both Harvard and Caribbean schools and the ones from the Caribbean are excellent. Actually, they know more about nutrition and alternative medicine than the US medical school grads. They also don't immediately jump to the most expensive medicine/treatment when a less costly alternative is available.
@@queenbunnyfoofoo6112 The Caribbean doctors I know committed medicare fraud lmao
@@MyspacHor911 That's not been my experience. It's pretty foolish to think docs from American medical schools never commit fraud or inappropriate behavior.
@@queenbunnyfoofoo6112 Strawman. I never said that, did I?
Adapt the German system. No rankings, everyone works at where they want to, not where they are told to go and we don’t have to call insurance companies for pre authorization. Love from Germany ❤
I think this is great! There’s plenty of people who would make great physicians that can’t afford Stanford. Maybe this will make things more equal across the board. There’s nothing wrong with State schools. There’s nothing wrong with taking some pre reqs at a community college. What’s wrong is when you owe more in student loans than your house is worth, if you can afford one
Coming in a bit late, but the same thing is happening to law schools and we’re SO happy
Michigan also pulled out of the system.
On a side note, for Harvard PhDs there is a question on the application "How did you hear about Harvard?" How did I hear about the most well known insulation of higher education in the English speaking world? I don't know‽
Insulation 😂
Maybe he’ll report on his own role in the now-defunct medical school rankings, it’ll be a self-report
Hey hey from Sacramento! Kasier telephone RN and you make me laugh so hard!
This is your best one yet.
The one I do think has some value, even if it probably helps reinforce biases against less prestigious programs, is their ranking of med schools compiled from residency program directors
I was a biochemist undergrad so worked alongside undergrad medics sometimes (I love Dr G jokes about the Krebs cycle because I know med students hated it all) and the top universities tend to attract the best students and that is all. How good a doctor they turn out to be is due to a lot of other factors.
That said, I know a few really good ones that did go to a top med school, very decent human beings and great with patients. They are at the top of their professions and very well deserved.
Omg… this is my nightmare as a librarian …. Having to deal with this ranking bullshit.
hilarious bit. But it goes both ways. We still need merit based metrics which are being stripped away currently.
"Uck, so poor" 😂🤣😂
I can't wait to see what the next iteration of "imothy" is
Bimothy and Jimothy are top tier twin names! 🧑🤝🧑
One thing a learned in life is that people who have less resources are far more capable in coming up a resolution especially in critical situations.
Excellent advice.
You know what you call the guy who graduated med school with the lowest gpa? Doctor.
"Doctor" who does not practice because he could not match into a residency
@@murraysolomon4924 you would be surprised.. there's always some hick-town hospital willing to hire anyone. I grew up in it. I was molded by it. I didnt get quality medical care until I was already a man lol
Law schools dropping out made sense because school ranking plays a huge factor in job placement but for healthcare school ranking doesn't really matter so I think med schools dropping out is more just grandstanding than anything
Yeah I remember the med school rankings being seen as a BIG deal on premed forums and stuff, but the effect is has on your quality of education and residency matching prospects is pretty miniscule.
I mean you certainly get some bragging rights from going to harvard/stanford/john hopkins, but that would be true even without the official rank list.
schools dropping out is still a good thing-it might not matter to a job, but a student won't know that if they're seeing these sorts of rankings from seemingly legitimate news platforms
Makes me think of that old saying "You will know if someone, that you have just met, went to Harvard, within 5 minutes.
Jimothy and Bimothy need to unite to combat their terrible employers.
No Bimothy. I will not go down that path again!
Where will you go?
.....SPORTS!
UCSF is a state school that is always in the top tier. A first class medical education at state school tuition rates. What could be better?
Iowa is a great medical school with the VA Hospital nearby for teaching
Just never schedule anything on football game days. Too many people tailgating in the parking ramps. (Go Cyclones!)
I go to Stanford for undergrad, and I promise, they are just fine… we all literally bend over backwards to be here and they know it.
Nicely going through the grief stages 👌🏼
Only if PD's saw this... Wait nvm, they still use rankings/prestige to rate resident applicants...
@Dglaucomflecken please if you know any veterinarians enough to parse out their personalities I would love to see you do some skits on them. I studied pre-vet and they definitely are their own sort of people. Your rural doc gets pretty close to a large animal vet personality and they have a lot of the same challenges.
I knew it. Jimothy finally couldn't take it anymore and quit the insurance profession. Enter his poor, innocent, unspoiled replacement: Bimothy.
I love the UK; it does not matter where you attend university. No one in the hospital cares if you went to Oxbridge, St Andrew or Plymouth university as long as pass med school and you can safely do the work and hopefully can communicate with patients.
Its more like so residencies can evaluate people on something other than step scores
what you did before med school doesn't really matter. It's what you do in med school that makes you a great doctor. Some of the DOs I met during my training were one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. Knew every single questions, knew everything about patient care. Absolute beasts
Jimothy needs to get some tips from Bimothy... Then again, health insurance might be too powerful 🤔
"Okay."
I hope you didn't have to smack yourself in the face too many times!!
Also picturing Lady G walking by witnessing you filming it...🤣
the first word of the video sounds like mike tyson saying bbc
“Report it”😂😂😂 Love it