CASSANDRA CLARE | AUTHORS BEHAVING BADLY PT 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- DISCLAIMER: I have not independently confirmed all facts/screenshots/allegations and can only report on the findings in my research. This video is for entertainment purposes and while I do research in good faith, it is possible that some things may be wrong.
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I was there, Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago, on the slopes of Mount Fandom Wank. I was there the day the Mortal Instruments was just an erotic Ron/Ginny hatefic.
Damn I actually have a similar version of this exact joke written into my script for part two 🤣
@@ReadswithRachel Perfect, I'll be there with a thematically appropriate plagiarism accusation! 😂
Same, and I feel old and brittle
Thank you for the giggle! 😂
I was there when the Draco Dormiens copyright infringement allegations exploded all over LiveJournal. It was a shitshow.
I would love to see Cassandra try to argue her “not-plagiarism” monologue to a literature professor and be promptly told that her actions were worthy of expulsion for blatant plagiarism. The amount of times I’ve had a professor tell my class that incorrectly cited or non-cited quotes and paraphrases are plagiarism, full stop, is stressful.
It's funny because I use her in class as an example of plagarism.
I expressed my dislike for the sibling x sibling narrative CC seems to be so fond of and her fans went FERAL on me. They called me names, accused me of not understanding literature, and also threatened me... all because I didn't like incest. 😒
How dare you!
I love how a normal milquetoast opinion gets the chronically online to go super feral
Oh god yes. I expressed a dislike for similar things once and got called all manner of things. These people are insane.
A few years ago, a CC fan on Tumblr called me homophobic because I said that I thought the whole incest thing in her books was problematic.
I was all "... what. That's not what homophobia is about... " So I blocked that person. And then I blocked some of their friends because they started sending me anon hate the next day for blocking that first person, and the mature thing was to just plain ignore them rather than respond.
Edit: Fixed a typo. Uuuuugh.
Incest-fetishists are _really_ something else. I've been dogpiled for criticizing it in a whole different fandom, and that was just white knights for one specific fanfic writer!
blows my mind that someone would defend incest, even if it's fiction, yikes people are insane
It's truly mindboogling how much internet drama comes back to Cassandra Clare and her infamous Inner Circle from the Harry Potter fandom of the early 00s. These people literally just go from fandom to fandom ruining everything for everyone else and they just never stop.
I remember. MsScribe, Aja, all those so-called 'BNFs'. Watching their implosion and how it affected the whole damned fandom, definitely had an influence on how I approached fan online spaces as I got older. I've no interest in being part of a 'queen bee' circle, because it almost always ends in flames and drama.
even the johnlock conspiracy from what i remember
@@rebellyanmagic6409 I think there was only one of her PoU Yahoo group of BNF friends who didn't engage in any of the silliness: the chick who wrote the Sirius/Cordelia fic. idk, I just don't remember her ever being involved in any of the numerous scandals of the early HP days.
I love mindboogling. That words great
Cassandra: preparing long monologue stating her innocence on plagiarizing.
Rachel: Objection!
fact
That’s hearsay(Johnny depp joke in case you didn’t know)
oh my god, as someone who was a teenager just watching from the sidelines during most of CC's BNF days, I love watching this stuff. I feel like an old man watching a WWII documentary and yelling I WAS THERE at the screen as I wave my cane.
ahahaha this is like that "oh neil cicierega, I know him, I went to internet with him!" post but like, traumatised flashbacks instead of fond memories
Mood. I somehow always manage to sail past internet fandom drama even when I'm active in a fandom, and even *I* heard about the plagiarism. I read those fics. I entirely remember this old news o_o
Insert Elrond "I was there" gif
I too am an old and remember this happening but wasn't heavily invested. What I didn't realize was that the same author wrote both the Draco fanfic and the Mortal Instruments, which makes me feel stupid because the names are the same minus the spelling!!!
When I was a kid my favourite book series was called The Mortal Engines. When I read Mortal Instruments as a teen, I was like huh, similar name. Then I learnt that Cassie named her prequels The Infernal Devices - the exact same name as the 3rd Mortal Engines book! I feel like I've hardly heard people mention this bc Mortal Engines was relatively unknown. The Mortal Engines villain was even called Valentine too🤦♀️
I read both as a 10 y/o they kinda just merged into one horrible story in my head 😭✋🏽
It has always bothered me that her fans always bring up the incest plot when people critique her as if that is the worse of her crimes. They love to ignore the plagiarism allegations, doxxing, bullying, general awfulness, etc.
Seriously. When she wrote her Ron/Ginny spite fic because she hated the Weasleys and all of their fans lol, we were more affronted that she was being an ass over fictional characters (again). But that’s what she was like. She’d do something rude and deny it and her friends and fans would deny it and the rest of us would be like, hello? Are we experiencing the same reality?
@@scoutz0rs holy shit she wrote Dead Dove fic specifically to piss people off out of spite??? Y I K E S, that's a lot more toxic than where i thought this was going. i can't be arsed to give a shit about what people honestly ship so long as they keep it contained and far away from me, but if you're specifically doing it to be nasty and shoving it in people's faces, you are not mature enough to be allowed in public spaces wowzers bowzers how does this woman have fans still
@@scoutz0rs not the gaslighting! It just adds up that she and her fans are so obsessed with THE LITERAL BULLY in HP because they are bullies themselves
The incest plot turned me off of even finishing the books. I didn't even know about the rest (I don't follow her career, so didn't hear of it before). Some of it might be coming from people like me who only really know about the incest thing.
I don‘t even care about the incest, I care about the awful prose, questionable publishing practices, and the feeling of derivativeness the whole way through
Comparing Cassandra Clare to Donald Trump within the first three minutes is such a bold move. She truly risks it all for us.
WHEN I SAID IM KEVIN I MEANT IT lmaooooo come for my neck stannies I’m not afraid.
That was the moment I subscribed. 😂
@@ReadswithRachel why would we come for your neck, though? You're like super right on that.
@@mollyapteros bro literally same
I mean, we can say that for either side of the political spectrum. I am neutral on politics because I think one side is just as bad as the other. No one seems to respect another's opinion. Both sides have temper tantrums. It is what it is.
I absolutely love her insistence of "it's not plagiarism because my friends and I made a fun game out of it!"😭😭
Is that not how that works??? Oh darn! There goes my plan for writing a best seller
@@gigitastic90 oh it's okay, once a group chat of your closest friends agrees with an idea it becomes your IP and you can do whatever you want with it /j
@@emackenzie Oh Goody! Noble in literature here I come!!
Cool Do that if it stays between youmJK rowling has for instance NOTHING against fan fictions, she even Promotet them back in the day
@@indedgames4359 dude she’s a disgusting transphobe we don’t talk about her
Wow, that "other people won't feel safe to write fanfic now" gives me real "I'm afraid to even TALK to a woman now" energy.
THIS!!!!!!!!
I mean, if a woman can just accuse a guy for sexual harrasement and ruin his life without evidence, it would make sense they'd be scared to talk to a woman
@@yikesyourchunkyhostilityha2321 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL you tried it.
@@yikesyourchunkyhostilityha2321 Men CONVICTED of rape haven’t had their lives ruined.
@@yikesyourchunkyhostilityha2321 then stay at home and don't talk to people if that scares you so much
I remember every second of this.
Hearing “this was 16 years ago” was like staring into my own painting of Dorian Grey and rapidly succumbing to old age
❤ love that reference
ahahaha oh no
Read picture of dorian grey yesterday, so this comment hit hard ahaha
LOL bless this comment 😂😂
As a fanfic writer and aspiring novelist: she gives writers a bad name in general. Take this story as a cautionary tale on how not to behave and write.
True
So true
I love that she refers to Blackadder and Red Dwarf as "obscure" British sit-coms when they're some of the most well known and best British sit-coms, they're only obscure to Americans I suppose.
They aired on Saturdays back in the day on PBS stations here, but not everyone has/had access to it, and streaming them is surprisingly more difficult than you'd think. Also like, if your parents weren't already p lefty or at least open, you probably didn't see PBS, and they probably didn't watch those shows. Still! More reason than ever to introduce folks to them.
I think she meant at the time- stuff wasn't nearly as accessible.
@@lazarusundfrodrick Our Saturday British PBS shows I was raised on were Keeping Up Appearances and Are You Being Served. And my grandma owned a vhs copy of Absolutely Fabulous episodes from a pledge drive that child me ADORED which in hindsight is hilarious.
as an american, i have no idea what those shows are
Rowan Atkinson I think is more recognizable over here as Mr Bean, but yeah I found black adder a few years back and it’s brilliant :) I think sitcoms before ‘85 (here or there) tend to be labeled “obscure” by gate keepy peoples haha
As a published author, would I mind if someone wrote fanfic based on my original works? No, not if they just took the characters and general setting, themes, etc. and then wrote their own ORIGINAL stories. (As long as they weren't trying to make money off of the fanfics, that is). But would I be upset if someone cut and pasted MY original text into their fanfic stories? Yes, I absolutely would. I think that is the distinction that is being glossed over by Clare and some of her fans. Of course fanfiction involves using ideas, characters, and plot points from other media, but that is very different from lifting entire passages from other books, TV shows, films, or what have you and inserting them into a story you claim to have written yourself.(Especially if you never cite the actual creators of these passages). It's the difference between an homage or parody and outright stealing. I don't know why some people can't understand that.
This is such a good clarification of the grey area that her fans try to live in whenever this is brought up.
Exactly, its the same thing with Marvel and DC. The characters are the same, but the stories are the writers worl
I agree with this. I've just published my first book, and if anyone decides to write fanfiction based on my books, I'd be flattered. It would be hard not to read them, so I wouldn't until my series was completed.
However, I'd be angry if my books were plagiarized or if they published that fanfiction. Say what you want about Stephenie Meyers, but I was angry for her that EL James did that. Now I've heard Cassandra has done the same. I've spent the last few days watching videos about her because I knew nothing about this.
I hate that shes so successful after everything, and by the sounds of it, she caused a lot of drama on the fanfiction sites. I just finished watching one about Ms scribe.
As a fanfic writer, I always try so hard to give credit where credit is due to the original authors and sometimes even other fanfic/fanart artists if I want to borrow an idea from them or if my idea is similar to theirs. I am working on an original, and have been for years, and part of the reason it's taken so long is because I want to develop my original ideas rather than borrow from someone else.
It's important in the fanfiction community that we respect the lines and boundaries of decency and general moral behavior. If you wouldn't go steal from a store, don't takd credit for a work that isn't yours.
Have another one for the list: Addison Cain. She is the author who claims to have invented heterosexual Alpha/Omega (she didn't) and has been suing people left and right over copyright, because she apparently owns the Omegaverse!
The inimitable Lindsay Ellis did a two-parter on the Addison Cain thing when she inadvertently got dragged into it, her videos are worth a watch for sure :D
@@stellasadbrains6898 she also contributed the phrase "Wolfcock Karen", which never ceases to make me giggle
@@WhoTookMyMirr that phrase has ruined my life in a tiny way, I think about wolfcock Karen at least twice a week and there is not one person in my life I can explain it to without making things unbearably weird
@@stellasadbrains6898 poor Lindsay
@@stellasadbrains6898 didn't Addison tried to sue Lindsay 😂
I didn't see a comment on this so i wanted to say, it genuinely seems Sherrilyn Kenyon had a breakdown stemming from the stress of that trial and I find it disgusting, like genuinely despicable, that Clare's takeaway from learning about the lawsuit Kenyon filed against her husband was to be the biggest martyr the internet has ever known. Specifically when she goes into details about how victimized she was and how her mental health suffered, it feels intentionally done to detract from any sympathy anyone might have if they speculated on *Kenyon's* mental well-being. Like not even capable of thinking Kenyon had filed the copyright infringement lawsuit in good faith but talking about how she was trying to ruin her life? What a... I won't swear but what a horrible human being she is.
We'll never know what was in her mind either way, but her quickness to make the whole thing about how she had never been a plagiarist and only a big jealous meanie could say so and make her boo hoo herself to sleep every night, makes me think she did, in fact, rip Kenyon off and is desperate to never be found out for it. Because no one needed her to say a god damn thing, and i don't know how anyone can look at Kenyon's second lawsuit and statements and not think this is a woman who deserves pity and patience.
I met Kenyon a few months ago and she is the nicest and most down to earth person I could imagine. It was insane what she had gone through mentally, coming from someone that has also had hardships with an exhusband, some of them can make you look like the worst person ever just to make sure they look good. I'm not saying every single thing is true, but Kenyon has been around for years prior to the Shadowhunter series and I knew of her WAY before CC. I totally agree that that's incredibly asinine that CC tried to make it all about her and "poor me". :( ugh I had no idea she was like this
And what’s with her trying to claim her books came out before Dark Hunters? I was reading those in college and that was WAY before CC ever hit the scene. It was before freaking HP.
You absolutely cannot get into it with these BNF fandom types. They have the worst possible combination of ego, shamelessness, condescending and maliciousness, and are borderline unsinkable. They also seem to universally suffer from arrested development. A lot of these are the types who without fandom were unpopular in their real life schools as teenagers, but always wanted to be the queen bee, and are just running rampant once they get a little validation from fellow fandom peers.
It was a shitty situation for Sherrilyn because Cassie forced her into all this drama. Sherrilyn was never involved in her circles or went near all her fandom high school mean girl crap. It sucks that she had to defend her books and her intellectual property against such an insufferable person.
Bro plagiarism once in college can result in your dismiss from the school. This is insane to me that nothing happened
my friends and i used to have a “quote nabbing contest” for our harry potter fanfiction…. but the quotes we were nabbing were funny things we said to EACH OTHER 😭 we were like 13/14 so we thought we were hilarious but it would never even occur to us to steal quotes from elsewhere.
Honestly the stans are the most embarrassing part about this for me. Seeing all these people going to bat for someone like Clare is something I can't understand; if you like her books, whatever but some of them act like they're the Gomez Addams to her Morticia.
Isn’t that true for pretty much all fandoms? All the fandoms I’ve ever been in have them.
Lmaooo I just looked up Mortal Instruments on Wikipedia for a refresher, and there's a banner at the top of the page that says something like "this article needs cleaning up as it may have been written from a fan's point of view and is not unbiased"
@@eveellisen Omg you are right what hahaha 💀💀💀
@@gspanzer3226 Also no mention of the plagiarism scandals aside from a brief mention of the Kenyon lawsuit on her author Wikipedia page, because of course not!
Petition for Cassandra Clare fans to like read other (better) books
Damn.. our girl Rachel had to pull out a whole ass trilogy to drag her 😂 we love it
I have an emotional attachment to the books, since the mortal instruments is the first book with a gay character that i read and it helped me come to the realisation that i am bi. That being said I think it is not hard to both like a book that you loved when you were younger and still acknowledge that 1) the author is problematic and 2) the books aren’t the best. Fans that defend anyone no matter what they do are scary
Exactly how I feel about HP.
I agree with you on this. I love the Harry Potter series to the point that I still collect editions of books and I do have an emotional attachment to them even though I haven't actually read any of these books for quite some time. However, I will never stand behind J.K. Rowling for any of the problematic things she has done over the years and have been active in condemning her. I would never attack somebody who has a negative opinion of the Harry Potter series because the actions of the author are so atrocious that they can't separate the book from the author.
Just as an example, of course. I've heard of Clare, though. She was a Harry Potter fanfiction writer and was problematic even then. Look up the Msscribe drama to get a look into the way Clare treated her fellow Harry Potter fan writers who wrote pairings that she didn't personally approve of. The worst part is that she has continued on with this behaviour. The last time I checked her Twitter (2020, I think)- she was on the rampage against a fourteen year old school girl who asked her a question about the book she was about to publish. If memory serves me correct. She's a sneaky writer and the fact that she's got a huge support network of stans willing to do her dirty work is scary.
@@TiffWaffles I agree I have a very strong attachment to Harry Potter(see HP trunk purse hanging in my closet currently) and yeah when all of the JKR stuff came out, I admit it was hard--not to say that's wrong what she said per se--but more so it was hard for me like someone who had offended so many people. At that time I was fresh off working at The Margaret Mitchell House and I felt like MM's fans. Who basically like an author and a book that is God awful offensive to black ppl such as myself. In the end I was able to say yes I love her books but her opinions are BS.
I feel the same about HP. I read the mortal instruments in high school but eh they were good then but not ones I want to re read the incest thing was kinda gross to me too
@@TiffWaffles This is my life in two paragraphs- like i love HP but as a new, openly bi person i was crushed when my favourite author- at the time! all hail Uncle Rick, I mean the dude has a shit ton of diversity in all his books- stood against who I was until i was like fuck her I am me and shes a bitch who only wrote one good series! Admittedly I am wearing a slytherin jumper as I type this.
Sorry to hear about Mrs. Kenyon. Her Dark Hunter series got me through bad times. Hope she finds her way.
One of the weirdest things for me is her saying that she added the references as a sort of scavenger hunt. I was writing fan fiction 16 years ago; none of my and my friends did that and CC acting like is was commonplace makes me think that she is lying or that we ran in very different circles.
Now, we absolutely did things like rewriting 2003 Dawn of the Dead, but with characters from our fandom of choice. BUT WE ALSO PREFACED THE FIC SAYING THAT. Anything else IS plagiarism! This is so bizarre!
To further prove the point, I had friends who were into the Draco trilogy when it was in syndication and were excited for the Mortal Instruments when it was first being published. They were all disappointed because they felt like the voice of the work was so different than what they were used to. Because anything that was good wasn’t Cassie’s! This is so bizarre!!!
Another excellent video!
I don't know if it's _commonplace_ , and I've never personally run into a fan author stealing whole scenes, narration and all, from published works (that I recognized as such, anyway), but fanfic authors borrowing lines, exchanges, and even multiple line exchanges from other works (usually TV shows) is actually a thing I've seen myself. Heck, some fan authors will rewrite scenes from their OWN fandom, but in a different context (between different characters, at a different time, etc.) in their own stories. Since there's almost no chance _they_ would think their readers wouldn't recognize them, I always figured they must be really young authors who didn't know where the line between "in joke" and "theft" is drawn.
There's also a whole thing somewhere called "Incorrect Quotes" where you rewrite tiny scenelets or jokes with your fandom's characters. (This isn't on fanfic sites, it's like on tumblr or something.) There was some place online where you could get random "quotes" with "Character A" and "Character B" and you were supposed to plug in the names of your favorites if they seemed in-character enough. They're just unattached scenes, though, not stories, and they're usually labeled "Incorrect Quotes," so even if you don't recognize quote yourself, you know it's "from" somewhere, not original to the person "quoting."
This could be the kind of "game" CC was trying to blame her actions on. I don't think her argument is remotely close to valid, and I don't recall seeing any overt "quote scaventer hunt" things myself, but I suppose it's not impossible that it happens in fandoms that I'm not familiar with.
seconding @shiny aeon it’s not entirely unheard of
especially in older (prob pre-2012 ish) fic, authors tended to included little references as easter eggs, like character dialogue or names. it was a fun little game to see how many reviewers would pick up on it or who caught it first. BUT authors were almost always very open about it and it was never anywhere close to what clare did in my experience
source: was unfortunately super into drarry in like 2008
Her entire CIRCLE of friends was doing it, The original Bad Penny Journalfen posts had the side by side comparisons and yeah we went through several of the Inner Circles Fics, they were ALL doing it. Only ONE actually went back and cited the passages, re-uploaded the story with a HUGE new disclaimer and apology.
@@ShinyAvalon I have only read one fic where the plot was wholesale ripped off, it was a BBC Sherlock and Silent Hill crossover. The story was just Silent Hill 2 but with Sherlock and Watson being the ones exploring Silent Hill and hitting the story beats. The author was a nasty piece of shit too in the comments where they pointed it out.
@@Arella17 - See, that would be fine IF the author was just upfront about it. I've read numerous stories where the author's notes said "This is basically [movie/book/video game] retold with characters from [current fandom]." The fun in those stories is in things like, how do these characters react to _that_ ? And how well do the two universes mesh in general? if they mesh well, then it's "Wow, this works better than I thought!" If they mesh badly, then it's usually played for comedy, and can be _hilarious_ .
Tbh I have had a lot of very negative feelings about the fact that she's one of the few people who have gotten published out of the fandom. Proof that karma isn't real.
if it makes you feel better dozens if not hundreds of authors have been published out of fandom. NK Jemisin used to write fanfic and is a celebrated SFF author. Naiomi Novak is a founding member of the fanfic website AO3 and a very famous fantasy author. Chloe Zhao is an Oscar-winning director and admitted to writing fanfiction. Author duo Christina Lauren's YA, author Alexa Donne, Emilie Skutski Tamsyn Muir, Scott Lynch and so many more. I could literally go on for a while. Cassandra Clare is just one of the very few (including Ali Hazelwood and EL James) whose fanfic identity is very very linked to their trad pub author persona
@@booksvsmovies One of the saddest FF to published jumps was Jonathan McCready (aka Chilord.). Published his first book then was diagnosed with an aggressive form cancer and passed not long after.
@booksvsmovies Naiomj Novak is an AO3 founder?! Oh my gosh I love her work and now I love her even more that's amazing
@@garygressett4695 I worked with McCready before and after his diagnosis. He published his book before he went on medical leave. Folks in the office bought copies of course. I visited him and he actually signed my copy that I still have to this day. That was the last time I ever saw him.
A friend of mine recommended City of bones to me and I felt more and more uncomfortable while reading, because I just felt like I was reading a weird Supernatural fanfiction that takes inspiration from all big fandoms. I told my friend about it, she read it again and just said „yeah, you’re right.“
I just found out about Sherrilyn Kenyon today and I feel so so bad for her, the poor woman has been f@#$kэd over by her husband who cheated on her - stole her money and tried to steal more - poisoned her with his mistress for months/years, the middle son who betrayed her, and Cassy Clare plagiarizing her work and stealing millions from her... God bless Sherrilyn, I hope she gets justice and finds peace.
I have a hard time believing she'd never heard of Sherrilyn Kenyon - I knew so many people who were VERY into both of them in the 2010s - huge crossover in their fans.
Sherrilyn is going back to her maiden name of McQueen after finally getting out from her terrible divorce and nonstop abuse from her ex and his lawyers, FYI.
Yeah.. I remember Kenyon books were right there with Laurel K. Hamilton and Nora Roberts in grocery stores and every where you could readily find books. She was hugely popular.
Def was a bug fan of the darknhunter series
I am so excited for this, I was in HP fandom when CC was a big name fan, and it still baffles me TO THIS DAY that she has so much success.
I didn’t do HP fanfic then (I had a couple anime friends and I would write fics about), but she was such a horrible person that it bled over and I absolutely devoured the fandom_wank about it, and the plagerism wiki.
@@marzipan9 honestly she and the HP inner circle powered fandom wank for a LONG time, those were the good old days
I was in HP fandom as well at that time, but in another part, but even in that corner of the fandom we knew what was going on and talked about it. While rolling our eyes and doing our own things.
I never understood how she could become so successful. Her fans now sound very much like her fans back then. Bullies and trolls.
@@shadowfox009x Bullies and trolls sounds about right.
YES! I was in the Potter fandom then (~2003) and used to even Yahoo message CC. I make sure to spill the tea to anyone who has anything positive to say about her or her books.
It makes me sad that people like her give fanfiction a bad name. There are so many truly talented writers, who pour their heart and soul into their works, who use their personal experience with figuring out their identity and/or sexuality and/or mental health issues to inform their work, who don't just pull bits and pieces from others, but write from the heart. And because they speak from their experience, it helps others work through their issues or questions, fanfiction is not necessarily some silly writing done on the side. And then for some reason the worst members of fic writing community get famous, and people be like 'oh, of course, she was a fanfiction writer', as if this somehow implies bad quality. It doesn't. Just for some reason bad quality works get popularized.
I completely agree with this!! I find it so disheartening that she of all fanfic writers is the one who ended up finding so much success :(
As a fanfic writer, I agree with this. It's so upsetting that people like Cassandra Clare can be this successful when there's so many fanfic authors who do much better and write from the heart. It's disheartening.
if i ever blow up i'm not deleting my fan fic. i didn't write legend of zelda erotica for it to not be read
Leave that gold right where it is!
I actually met Cassandra on a site called Figment back before it closed down. I actually remember her bringing that letter up before she posted it. She became popular on there but originally was a small fry doing shorts for contests on the site. We were part of the same writing group on there. I thought she seemed really nice. We dm'd a bunch in the group chat, but as soon as she won the contest and about 6month's after the clockwork series first novel was released. We all agreed to beta back then. The crazy thing was as soon as her book started to take off she started to become a little bit more rude, until she kinda left a message in the group chat sorta equivalent to. Thanks, but I'm better than you all. And left the group chat and stopped answering all our dm's. I was so saddened and hurt by it. And for a while tried to continue to reach out. But in the end she had said goodbye to the people who helped her beta her novel hash out her story arc and characters. Sad.
her involvement in the HP drama was lowkey funny like adults getting into shipping wars over kids there's a whole video on it it's about misscribe (idk her name spelling) so if you wanna get the details of that I recommend it.
Edit: the video in question more or less goes into MsScribe and her bs more than Cassandra someone in the replies has posted the link so it's there.
Actually, the vid's been taken down since one of the friends of the video maker has been harassed by one of the involved parties
@@gliscorpropagandaaccount1764 I'm not sure which video OP is talking about, but this video is still up and is incredibly detailed th-cam.com/video/K_DZd78WLQY/w-d-xo.html
@@leahharlann must've confused it with one of the channel's other vids then
@@gliscorpropagandaaccount1764 Maybe you're talking about the hivliving video because that one mysteriously disappeared and I wonder what happened to it.
@@masonallen3961 ohhh that was the one. Yeah, the creator made a post about it on her tumblr
Its timeeeee!!!! She is so problematic and the books were not good. Just peak early YA fiction. And how can you fail with both a movie and a series. That just means the content isnt there
Idk, early YA is like Sweet Valley High, I know what you did last summer, Jacob I have Loved, Speak, the Vampire Diaries... this is squarely early 2000's hunger games-dystopian spin off vibes.
@@lonnie4827 well good thing early 2000s is when I was a YA and this and hunger games/ Divergent took over the whole dystopian era! I did not read any of the ones u mentioned except speak which was 1999 so early 2000s LOL and city of bones was 2007 and hunger games was 2008
@@PurpleManatees That's fine. It doesn't matter to me when or if you read them. No need to be snippy about it. I'm just saying, Cassandra Clare's writing is far from being "early YA fiction." The time she was writing is often called the Second Golden Age of YA, or 2000's YA.
This explains why book 1 makes sense, and book 2 starts to fall apart. The rest are just odd to read
This. Honestly the first couple of books were... okay (I mean given she allegedly copied from another author) but.. I stopped reading after..City of Ash? - The last one before the book that was from Simon's perspective - because the plot became so dumbed down and this whole "love interest this and love interests that" just became dull af...
wow, my college/grad school life would've been so much easier if I'd used the Cassandra Clare method of citing sources. "This essay contains some ideas from __." but I don't actually have to say which ones aren't mine!
I will always be here for anyone who speaks badly about Cassandra Clare rooting for them
She's everything I hate in one writer.
Same!
I never read these books because the random dude naked chest on the cover was such a turn off. Am I the only one who finds it weird? I don't like real people on book covers in the first place though
I made it a point to hunt down this fanfic….
Did she even read the books? Seriously? Because
1) they are in school in JULY
2) SNAPE replies enthusiastically to answers…
I’ve been waiting for this since I saw my first Authors Behaving Badly, because she is the Queen Bee of bad behavior. A lot of how I interact with people online was shaped by the laptopgate drama.
Laptopgate and charity wank were defining moments to me. Just………. yikes.
I have friends who met her irl and supposedly she's super rude and entitled 💀
She always was, even in fandom. There was drama when she and her gang went to see the third HP movie and who would get to sit next to Cassie, the queen, and who she picked and who she shafted lol completely deranged and totally middle school
I’m so glad you mentioned the messiness with Sherrilyn Kenyon…I was stunned when all of that went down! I didn’t realize Cassandra posted a response though…
And even if she didn’t actually plagiarize Sherrilyn, her early fanfic days still make me wonder if she learned anything. Her actions also seem *very* similar to CopyPasteCris, who was caught for plagiarizing from many notable authors, including Nora Roberts!
...was copypastecris their handle before or after they got caught?
But... with a name like CopyPaste.. I mean... he was telling you
I can't wait for you to get to the part where Cassandra tried to bully a girl out of college
That’s in part three! It’s coming
@@ReadswithRachel Oh god this is gonna me a TIME and a half. I am buckled in and cannot wait!
@@ReadswithRachel Oh my god, how many parts are there?😂😭 This is the kind of drama I wanna hear from this author haha
@@s.y.k.a1912 three in total!
@@ReadswithRachel wow that's a lot
I grew up as a fan of Holly Black...but her friendship with Cassandra really made me side eye her.
CC ends up in the acknowledgements section of faaaar to many authors I love and i hate it so much.
@@marzipan9 Rick Riordan too like buddy no
I swear I'm learning so much about my own writing weaknesses from binging your videos, and I am also developing abs from all the laughter. Love the content, so glad I found you!
I’m so glad you’re here!
I love the phrase "upsetti spaghetti." I wanna add it to my lexicon.
As a writer myself I get the notion of "I want a cool scene like in THIS movie." Thing is that's something I relegate to my brainstorming & note-jotting sessions. When I write the scene proper it's interwoven with the rest of the story & characters so it's at least consistent. Taking inspiration from other stories is one thing; lifting scenes wholesale is another, & not cool.
What a blast from the past. I was 14 when I was printing the Draco Trilogy in full off school computers so I could read it at leisure at home (we had a family computer and dial up internet then). I remember all the drama. I was such a fan of Claire precisely because I had never seen/read any media that she plagiarized. It was all new to me and she had me conned into thinking it was her original work, it was her jokes, it was her writing. When Mortal Instruments came out I didn't bother reading it as I had already read it as a fanfic lol
I remember going to fandom wank to read Avocado's magnum opus. But I had heard rumours before. But then I decided never to give a penny to CC. It pains me to hear that she's worth 8M. But that's life for you. A lot of bad people succeed by not playing by the rules.
Shit floats to the top, as I like to say. :/ I was in the HP fandom too at the time though I was in my 20s and watched all this go down on LJ. I WAS a fan of the media she was plagiarizing so I remember telling people she was ripping shit off and getting dogpiled.
I used to be a public librarian and it was widely known in the librarian community how problematic Cassandra Clare is.
From her constant plagiarism where she lifts entire paragraphs of others work and calls it her own, to her using her money and power to sue those who speak out against her into bankruptcy, she’s truly a villain.
I’ve never read a single one of her books as I can’t support someone so vile.
Whenever I try and share facts about her with her fans, they go ballistic so I no longer try.
So much appreciation to you for this well laid out, incredible deep dive ❤️
18:40 I'm extremely late to post this, but CC is referring to "songfics" here, which were popular in the 2002-2005 range and consisted of song lyrics being pasted into fics with fanfiction written in between verses. The issue with these fics was largely that many of them had very little substance or actual fanfiction in them, and the word counts of more than a few of them were half from the song lyrics (instead of the song lyrics merely adding flavor or setting a mood). There is still a very big difference between putting song lyrics in a fic (these were almost ALWAYS cited in notes because the author wanted you to find and listen to the song while reading/wanted to share their taste in music with their readers) and lifting paragraphs and entire scenes wholesale without actually properly citing the source. You are right to criticize her blatant attempts to redirect/distract from the actual issue. She knew then what she was being accused of; she was simply trying to manipulate her fans...and unfortunately succeeded because stans have existed before it was even a term. I've been posting fanfic since 2003 (and reading it even longer), and I've never known anyone who lift even quotes the way CC did. At most you might have found ONE in an entire fic, and almost always the author worked it into the story in such a natural way it felt normal. They also tended to cite it properly, or alter the quote in such a way due to context that it was more of an homage and less of a direct quote.
yeah, songfics were meant to be fics built around the song, with the lyrics pasted in as sort of intermissions/background music. how well that was done ofc varied hugely, but it's nothing like what she did!
More like “Cassandra couldn’t-CLARE-less.” I’ll see myself out.
(Terrible) Jokes aside, I got partway through the “dark artifices” series without realising it was part of a larger franchise. Got fed up by the mid point of book two, all the eyerolling was giving me a headache. >_>
Much later I stumbled across a video about ms scribe, etc. I was surprised to hear CCs name come up, and the whole mess just made me facepalm.
Love your videos, I’m currently stuck in bed with an illness, and your videos are doing a valuable job in keeping my mind off the pain. Looking forward to your next vid!
ooof I bet you were very confused about what was going on bc you really need to read the main series to have some context.
I knew immediately when it's stated how there were two different writing styles in the same piece of work that it was plagiarism.
I used to be a part of a writing community years ago and actually wrote with someone who did something similar. I didn't notice it at first because I was happy to have people to write with. It wasn't until later when they used something I myself had written to them in their own thing and I immediately started digging around. It didn't take much for me to find that they were stealing paragraphs from other writers and using them in their own work. Then, it clicked and suddenly everything made sense in terms of why there seemed to be two different writing styles in a piece of work and certain things not making sense time to time.
I don't understand why people think this is okay. Writing is hard, regardless of whether we do it for fun or as a job, and to watch someone steal it and then get popularity or/and money from it is a nightmare.
In my high school creative writing class, there was a kid named Zack who would always read his journals aloud (we spent the first ten minutes or so of every class period journaling), and I thought he was brilliant. He has this breathless stream-of-consciousness absurdist style that melded pop culture figures with whimsically bizarre situations. I really looked up to him and thought, 'Man, I'll never write anything this good. This guy is so original. The real deal."
Then, years later, I read My Cousin, My Gastroenterologist by Mark Leyner and recognized huge swaths of the work. You can guess where I knew them from.
Yeah, plagiarism sucks, even if it isn't for financial gain.
I think it's so wild how we can tell when things are written by different people. It's peak I know it when I see it but even I couldn't tell you how to see it. It's just wild that we can
@Eric H I was in a class once and this kids book report was the dust jacket summary of eragon. I'm STILL mad bc the teacher didn't care. He got to go to ap English but I ignored one busy work assignment bc adhd and suddenly "you won't make it in college"
@@dismurrart6648 A) That teacher sucked! I admire anybody who dedicates their lives to educating kids, but just because you get a job as a teacher doesn't automatically mean you're doing that, lol. B) Super ironic book choice for that kid, because Paolini (sp?) kinda became the poster child for plagiarism accusations for a while there in the early 2000s. Maybe the student was doing a meta thing by plagiarizing an (alleged) plagiarist? Nah, giving him too much credit.
Having said that, I myself have turned in the exact same paper in two different classes. If self-plagiarism is a crime, I'm guilty.
So I was a fanfic writer for yeeeeers and I often played spot the quote with my readers. At the start of the chapter I'd write 'a line or two may have been inspired by what I've been watching/playing can you guess' and at the end I'd say the thing that inspired them. It might be as simple as naming the bartender with the name of a character known for their drinking from a game, or as an example if I was watching Supernatural I might have a scene like
Character A: you're afraid of clowns?
Character B: you're afraid of boats!
CA: boats sink! Hear of the titanic?
CB: and clowns kill! Hear of It by Stephen King?
It's not the same scene but you can tell it's inspired by it and it can be made to fit your characters better. A lot of fanfic writers do this style as something fun and make it clear where they got it from
I see that happen all the time (though I’ve never been clever enough to do it myself in my fics). I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. I just started the video but from what I gleaned from the drama so far, I think the issue was that CC tried to pass off these quotes and references as her own without indicating to the fans that they weren’t hers.
Yeah there's a difference between a call back and wholesale plagarism
I'm sorry, but did she call Blackadder an "obscure" sitcom...it's literally the series that shuttled Rowan Atkinson and Hugh Laurie's careers?!
As both a Starch Marxist and a Cassandra hater since her Harry Potter days, I screamed when I saw this uploaded. Yeeeeessssss. YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!
As always: thank you for being a friend 🥰
Cassandra relentlessly bullied one of my young friends when I was in middle school for not liking the same ship that she did. She wanted to kill herself. Thank you for making this video. I wish more people talked about her bullshit.
Jfc I hope she’s okay ;o;
As a creator, I'm in school for graphic design and I want to one day become a novelist, copyright infringement is a heavy stake and you can easily lose so much from it. Plagiarism is literally copyright infringement. Lovely video by the way. 😊
Thank you for being fair. Clare IS problematic but Kenyon just went off the deep end. Could not believe it when it was happening.
It’s been a trip to see her name as a mainstream author even having screen adaptations when I remember hearing her name in middle school as the quintessential example of hp fandom drama
Hot Take (and stay with me I promise I'm not supporting Clare), there's nothing wrong with E.L. James and fanfiction writers re-coloring fanfiction into a sellable piece of content if there's enough degrees of seperation from the original content to the fanfiction, which 50 Shades appears to do. As long as you're not breaking copywrite law or plagerizing, then whatever, go wild. I will ammend that fanfiction about real people just gives me the ick, so I don't really consider After in this league.
Like, if (allegedly) the Mortal Instruments began as Harry Potter fanfiction, then literally whatever. People who like it are going to read it. Clare pretending she's better than E.L. James is just nasuating and perpetuates this idea that fanfiction writers are lesser than. Like, E.L. James is prolematic in so many different palces, don't get me wrong, but the fact 50 Shades started as twilight fanfiction is the least of my cocnerns about their work because it doesn't really appear to be completely lifting and stealing from Twilight.
I’m fully in agreement
Filing off the serial numbers is a long and honored tradition in science fiction/fantasy. Heck, some authors even write fanfic of their own work, file off the serial numbers, and then talk about how they composed the first work (in a creatively different way) as a novel set in the real world, or in the future. And so on.
Plagiarism is entirely different.
See, for me, fanfic is "I don't own the IP and I can't make a profit, but here is my story that takes place in this universe' enjoy. Its not cut and past plagiarism. Its just, I don't own this thing so I can't make a profit, but I'm a write this thing anyway.
So she combines literal media from stuff to make a story... but couldn't come up with her own creativity. That's sad when there are hoards of authors fic and well written own their own. Sorry if that's not coherent, I have aphasia.
I wonder if her fans wiuld also say James Somerton did nothing wrong.
I think the venn diagram of teenage HP fanfic readers back in the day and avid adult James Somerton fans is probably a circle
I've heard people mention her history of plagiarism vaguely but I never knew how deep it went till now.
Decided when I read the incest plot that I wasn’t gunna read her books. Thank god I stuck to that! 10 years later and I don’t regret it at all!
Same I avoided them for the same reason. No regrets!
She also totally ripped off the concepts of calling regular humans "mundanes" and concealing oneself with "glamour" from the Fables comic series
To be fair, glamoring oneself is a common fantasy practice
@@susan4912 true!
Holy shit i never realised that! Wtf?
@@MajesticAngel13 Not to mention that booktok's new fave book "Powerless" by Lauren Roberts uses "mundane" to refer to not-so-powerful people... So maybe not a complete rip-off of the concept, but it doesn't help the criticism that Roberts copied a bunch of things from a bunch of the most popular book series
I tried to read one of her books, Chain of Gold , I think. I ended up DNFing it after a couple of chapters. I just could not get into it. Donated it to my local library.
Part one!? Whoo boy here we go!
Can’t wait to see you talk about the Ms.Scribe fiasco. What a wild ride that story is.
Buckle in, gang! The Eldena Doubleca5t analysis/unpacking video is awesomely clinical but it needs that extra little bit of shade. Shade like a rainforest canopy.
Charlotte Lennox wrote a very thorough "unauthorized fandom biography" on MS Scribe (complete with receipts and everything) if you want to check it out in the meantime - if it isn't already on your radar, that is.
As a fanfic writer, I am embarrassed.
More than usual.
Drag her!
I’ve never been a fanfic reader, or CC fan, but from everything I’ve heard about her involvement in the HP fandom drama over the years, the purple prose and constant pop culture quotes, & the snippets of her fics & books that I *have* read, I always assumed she was a teenager when she wrote those fanfics, & still fairly young when she was published…NOT an actual freakin journalist in her, what, 20s, 30s?? Her writing is just so insanely melodramatic, it reminds me of the crap I’d come up with at 14 or 15. I will never, EVER understand how she’s become so popular🤯
I have never read any Cassandra Clare or HP fiction but I always find the drama fascinating. This video is the best description of the 'plagiarism' aspect I have seen so far. I have always found it murky. It makes much more sense to me hearing the description of her fanfics as "disjointed" and that the plagiarism was key to that quality.
I have always seen it framed more that what was written in the fanfictions was just re-skinned as a new book.
As a writer of original fiction and fan fiction, I have always been torn about re-purposing fanfiction into original fiction. Mostly when it comes to calling it plagiarism. Sometimes an idea comes to you half formed and as an artist you shape it again and again until it crystallizes into its final shape.
If "re-skinned works are plagiarism" logic is taken far enough, am I plagiarizing myself for revisiting an idea? What is self-plagiarism if the work has not been sold to a publisher?
Or when you have spent so long on a tranformative work, at what point is there enough that it can stand without the framework of the original media?
And there was certainly times when I have felt the desire to reclaim a fan work as a new thing*.
So discussions around Cassandra Clare have always made me feel cagey, especially as the volume of work she produced seems to reinforce that she had an idea beyond HP.
So thank you for laying it out so thoroughly!
*I have come to the conclusion as I have written more that for me the urge to re-skin a fic is just the desire to prolong the feeling of joy and accomplishment that fic gave you. You can't build a bridge by pulling up the planks behind you.
Or maybe I am just salty at current publishing trends 😛
Agree. Parts of the argument have always made me feel the same way. The way I always came around to it though is that reskinning the fanfic as a book wouldn't be THAT big of a deal (I mean, we see this pretty often, actually) if the fanfic itself hadn't involved a lot of plagiarism of other authors, TV scripts, etc.
Yes! I've always found it so hard to explain, especially in the context of the fandom world (involving not just the concept of fanfiction, but also many brand new writers in a non-paying format) but Rachel does lay it out so clearly. Of course people occasionally use favorite song titles or lines to riff off of, and sometimes quote favorite shows of fandom nerds and *most often* rewrite scenes from the fandom media with new action but same lines. It would be really disingenuous to call any of that plagiarism within the context of fanfiction. And if you develop an original story inspired by your favorite media and scrub the names and sell it as your own, why not? But this - was not that.
And so many *good* fanfic writers would mentor young readers and writers and give constructive criticism and also explain citations and why it might not be good to lift things wholesale from other media and pass it off as your own. Meanwhile, by her own proud admission, Cassie Clare was absolutely *encouraging* her fans to do the same thing.
“I’d literally rather autodelete than have people think I plagiarized” here’s an idea: *_stop plagiarizing shit then_*
And for the record, “Harry Potter but it’s Draco Malfoy” is James Potter.
A serially violent rich boy who rides by on his family’s status and his normie good looks to collect a small group of like minded boys to ritually torment chosen victims, who gets super involved at a young age with vigilante policing. That is James babes.
Hell, Draco’s better because he doesn’t stalk and objectify his waifu from ages 11-15, then be with her from 15 to their deaths at like, 21. Draco’s pretty sexless and his misogyny is thatcher standard. He has that over James.
The entire deal with the lawsuit seems fishy. Cassandra Clare and her laywers didn't once mention the content of the allegations, only how the woman was untrustworthy and how much Cassandra Clare allegedly suffered because of them. The woman might not have been in a healthy mental state, but the parallels between the two series are unlikely to be plain circumstances.
I don’t think she understands what fan fiction actually is or how it works... it’s not just an amalgamation of plagiarized writing pilfered from various popular works pulled together into a world from one author’s fandom... but, to hear her say it you’d think that’s exactly what it is supposed to be. Cassie or anyone who agrees with her: JIC you’re reading the comments Fanfic is an ORIGINAL work of fiction based on the writings of ONE fandom. The fandom being ONE author or ONE group of writers work on ONE project or a series of projects within ONE author’s book, series, script or other artistic work(s).
Seriously, Cassandra and her group of friends had a very bizarre take there and it’s incredibly disappointing that anyone who calls themselves a writer would think that was okay. I read a lot of fanfic in the late 90s and early 00s (not HP fandom though) and never saw works written in the way that Cassandra described-and if I had, I wouldn’t have read them.
It’s more simple actually - she knows the difference, she just pretends to have another interpretation to keep plausible deniability. She knew lifting scenes wholesale was wrong, that’s why she argued for pages with avocado about it.
THANK YOU. I remember when this was all happening (I was a lurker at this time) and I read Draco Dormiens, etc. All I could think was "wait... that's from Buffy... that's from Friends... pretty sure that's Monty Python..." and nobody seemed to care. I wrote her off as, at the very least, a very non-creative person who liked to copy and paste far too much. I fell away from the HP fandom not too long after so I didn't know she was getting published until I walked into a bookstore and saw her first book on a display. I was FLOORED. How in the world did she get published?? I doubted it was anything original and honestly... I never bothered picking up anything from her. I'm still shocked at how popular she is and whenever I see her pop up in a suggested reading list I am confused. HOW??? I'd think after what went down online, publishers wouldn't be interested. But... here we are, I guess.
Perhaps publishers just want to make money and don't care...
I had to contact her attorney about 2012 because of some similarities between one of her books and one of my graphic novels.
I realize her attorney’s job is to defend her, but damn, he was pretty much, “She’s successful, you’re a pissant, therefore you’re lying.”
It’s rather validating to hear about allegations.
The drama posts about her from WAY back when are STILL on LiveJournal to this day. I remember the original brouhaha over her Harry Potter fanfic being FULL of lines stolen directly from Buffy, Babylon 5, Blackadder, etc. and things only got wilder from there. The first time I saw her name in print at the bookstore I was LIVID. A curse upon that wretched thief.
I'm really glad I didn't really know anything about her or her fan base when I read these books as a teen. I really enjoyed the mortal instruments and infernal devices series (even though I know they have Plenty of issues), and I'm glad that wasn't ruined for me at the time when I desperately needed fantasy to escape into.
Edit: this isn't to say I support the plagiarism or problematic elements of those series, even though they just fulfilled something for me as a kid
Hey we all have messy things that gave us joy. As unhappy as her success makes me, I'm very happy that you and others were able to get something needed at an important time, especially if you fall in the category of "knows incest is bad" lol
same here
I remember when I was giving Cassie Clare a second chance after being thoroughly whelmed by city of bones and trying the first of the ones set in Victorian times forget what they are called. But the main character described her sandy blond hair ( the same hair color I have which I think is a gorgeous color btw) “Ditch water Brown” and I honestly was so offended I almost couldn’t finish the book lol 😆
Your username made my day.
@@ReadswithRachel thanks! I’m the Jedi master I stuffed pasta products lol
There's an actual term (it's in dictionaries and everything) called "dishwater blond." I think it's supposed to be the grayish sort of blond-brown that's not golden enough to be called "sandy."
I'm guessing " _ditch_ water brown" is a "misheard lyrics" or "Bone Apple Tea" kind of variation on that.
I've heard dirty blond before, but it seems really something to say ditch water blond.
@@eirinym yeah I was really put off by it lol. Was like “ damn we really out here having the main character call herself plain in less than 20 pages?” I hate that shit I’m all about characters that have self love.
So, I'm pretty sure I got recommended to this video because I've had Hbomberguy's video on plagerism playing several times. Initially, I thought "oh, she's discussing plagerism in a different sphere, nice!", but then I realized this video came out way before and I just have to say... she's avant guarde! I love it!!!
For like 10 years starting in middle school I had read and collected Keyons dark hunter and all spin off books so it’s really sad to hear this is how her story has turned out
I agree! I hope she is getting well, mentally and physically. I truly enjoyed her novels
Doctor Oz is a real doctor, very good cardiologist actually. The issue with him and Ben Carson is that they leverage that credential to talk about stuff they dont know about or start grifting
I’m so so so excited for this!! I remember reading the first mortal instruments book and being like “siblings?!” And being super confused as to why you’d have that in your book as a plot device 🙄 Needless to say I didn’t know about any of her other drama so I’ll be eating this series up!
I'm really fine with using large amounts of other authors' prose in fanfic, but you have to cite (and maybe even include that in the fandom tags you're using?) . like, yeah, a lot of fanfic is using large chunks of the another author's writing, but it's usually the author of the piece of media the fic author is expressly writing about, and they tell you.
like, maybe the song fic comparison is apt because it allows us to explain what she's doing wrong- if a song fic writer who isn't using much original writing is citing, then they're doing better than you, if they're not, they probably have the same issue as you.
Obviously it;s fanfic so the point is using another creator's ideas, so the concept of plagarism is weird to think about, but it's all about giving credit!
Unfortunately Dr Oz is an actual board-certified heart surgeon. He's even good at it. Of course, being a really good surgeon and certified to practice medicine doesn't make someone not a grifter and a fame-hungry huckster in other areas of medicine.
i am in love with the concept of a shady "inner circle" of fanfiction authors
CC sounds like a narcissist. I had a narcissistic housemate who stole my belongings and when I confronted her, she claimed she had permission from the owner of the house to have whatever she wanted. I told her that other people cannot give her my things, that’s illegal.
Turned out when I involved the landlords they had done no such thing and she was eventually evicted because she began a campaign of harassment and intimidation towards me for months.
Will you be doing Colleen Hoover? Can you also do about The Black Witch by Laurie Forest?
I hope she will and I also hope she'll read and review some of her "books." I had no clue who Colleen Hoover was a few months ago and then I stumbled upon a TH-cam video of someone reviewing November 9. Ouch that was a mess!
So as far as Colleen Hoover… I would, if there were receipts, but as far as I can see there’s not too much to talk about because it’s mostly people talking about her books but unless she has responded there’s not much I can say. If I’m wrong though, and there’s receipts, let me know! I’m happy to do a video on her.
If someone commissions me I’ll read the black witch and do a full review!
Did something happen with the black witch?
Early Hbomberguy anyone?!
Wait... If Claire is Ginny, Jace is Draco and Alec is Harry... Who's Magnus? Is it Dumbledore? 😂😂😂 *I'm off to investigate. Thank you*
as someone who absolutely loves fanfics and grew up reading them more than traditional publishing, this makes me so sad. it just feels like every time a fanfic author becomes published they have done awful things and their works are bad. i know so many fanfiction writers who have incredible works on places like ao3 and have works (that aren’t fanfics or based off of anyone’s work) they are trying to get published, but they can’t. it just makes my heart hurt
Super late to this, but I just found you and am now I'm in love with your mind and bravery, so I felt compelled to comment. I was writing in the Buffy fandom during this time (I still am), and many fandom authors were discussing this on LiveJournal. The plagiarism was obvious and uncomplicated; everyone knew what it was. There were also parts of Buffy fanfic that were lifted and appeared in her "work." No one in the fandom said anything because her fans (and HP fic fans in general at the time) were rabid and unhinged. She scared us.
i've never clicked on a video so fast
what gets me abt cassandra clare, but also badly behaved authors in general, is that there are so many marginalized people out there telling original, UNPLAGIARIZED, non-incestuous stories that do not get published because the publishing industry sucks so bad. and yet we get shit like this??? unbelievable
I read both shadow hunters and dark hunters as a kid (I shouldn’t have been reading Dark-hunters but her YA series was in the same world and I was hooked) and never once made a connection between the two series until I learned about the accusations. It just felt so odd to me. I really enjoyed getting to learn more about it and still have no clue what to think. With the histories of both authors in mind, it’s all so murky
Would you say the comparisons to the characters in the court documents were inaccurate?
Personally I think the most offensive red herring here is her insistence that her plagiarism is OK because other authors do it too... like first of all, her specific example of songfic either was banned not too long after on FFNet or was banned and just not enforced at the time... and second of all no they didn't? Lots of people did little references and borrowed lines from things (and still do, though it's gone out of style pretty hard) but that's not what the Pamela Dean accusation is about. I'll give you assuming that you didn't need to be diligent about the Buffy stuff because everyone's seen Buffy, not accounting for international readers or kids reading your work who haven't, but it's an entirely different scale of popularity. Most of the Buffy etc stuff is dialogue or short descriptions of things that WERE dialogue in the original, and the Pamela Dean stuff is just big old chunks of description and action taken almost word for word. Lots of people were inserting random lines from TV shows... but they weren't doing THAT 😤
Regardless if they settled the lawsuit or not... It's completely disappointing to know that a story I thought was so creative and original was actually stolen.
Love how her instinctual response to being told something she did is wrong has been "well, a friend said it was okay" in several instances lol. Oh, my fanfic did a plagiarism you say? Well, I wrote it at the behest of a ~friend~ for the funsies and ~she~ told me I should totally post it, I would NEVER profit financially out of any of this, trust :333. Yes, I have literally no idea how to stop directly quoting other media (without crediting them) bUT quoting other media is just a quirky little game me and my ~fellow writer friends~ like to play so it's okay uwuu. Why are people saying I plagiarized Pamela Dean? A ~friend~ of hers told me it's totally okay! It's such a manipulative way to redirect the heat onto someone else for something SHE did that- given it's a pattern- can only speak for her as a person.
The fact that some of these Stans are literally wearing blinders and rose tinted glasses are worrying. Things like Plagerism is an academic crime whether you are writing fictions or what not. It can ruin you. The fact that so many fans of authors, young adult more so now a days, are so blinded b their love for these fictional chracters they will tell people to go unalive themselves. Its just like the Saesangs in the Kpop community. Unhealthy toxic fans.
Rachel, you should’ve had some of the crazy Cassandra fans coming up the stairs with the scene where Kevin hurls the paint bucket at them. It was such a missed opportunity.
There’s always part 2!
As much as I definitely think Clare based some of her series off the Dark Hunters books, and I say this as a fan of Kenyon's writing, the Chronicles of Nick (2010), which is what Kenyon cites in her lawsuit, came out a few years after city of bones (2007). Also, a lot of those similarities were revealed in way later CON books (his mother being part Angel was revealed fairly late in the series - when I first heard about this lawsuit it actually spoiled that for me lol), long after City of Bones was published. And honestly, a lot of these similarities are more or less common tropes in urban fantasy (being part demon, for example). Still a plagiarist, but maybe not in that instance.
i never read either but some of the plot points and worldbuilding indeed sound like basic urban fantasy stuff. having supernatural parents and having a crime fighting alter ego is like. the genre
Never read “Dark Hunters”, but I have the first book. I got it because I was reading “Chronicles of Nick” and the novels said they were spin offs to “Dark Hunters”, the author, Kenyon’s previous series. I think Nick was a side character in the previous series and she expanded on his story in his own book series. I think the teacher was the main character in the previous series. That was my impression after doing general reading on what the previous series was and the relation to the Nick series, but again, I haven’t read “Dark Hunters”. I also read the author’s novels years ago when I was still in HS.
Edit: That’s so sad about Kenyon. I had no clue of her mental state. Even still, I’d be willing to believe Clare took from Dark Hunters though. There’s just no way to trust her knowing all this about Clare’s past.
While I am sorry for Kennyon for her mental state and overall misfortune, I can believe CC may not have plagiarized her, like you guys say, the themes are common in urban fantasy genre, and nothing is too out there that haven't been done in other works before or after.
I myself constantly think up plots that I think would be cool to read about, and later I see a book/manga that has that plot.
Dude… quoting other works is one thing, but it sounds like most of the Draco stories were other peoples’ works. 🤨 like what?
Can’t even fathom not wanting to make your own words. Literally the most fun part of writing is creating something of your own, including the words and descriptions. Ruins the point of creative writing if you just copy/paste…
It’s so interesting because when certain friends and I see her name now we just roll our eyes. We were around WAY back in the day with a lot of her earlier, ahem, controversies. I mean years and years ago before anything was ever published. She is no different now than she was back then. I think it’s funny that people are discovering a lot of the older controversies. Looking forward to the other parts of this.