@@lloydsamuel1269 i have made many errors in refrigeration and mistakes happen all the time. We need to learn and grow from them so they do not happen again second time.
And now you know. Please share it with others. We also have a great free compressor troubleshooting guide you can access here offers.refrigerationmentor.com/free-guide
I am glad to find someone else talking about replacing accumulators. If your screen is plugged the oil level in the accumulator would rise to a level where it would become dangerous to the compressor. Depending on the holding volume of the compressor crank and the volume of the accumulator you either starve the oil return to the compressor or slug it to death. How did your compressor fail?
I totally agree and have seen many compressor fail because of this. I have caused a few for sure as I had to learn this the hard way. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing this i just learned something new, this tells me to replace my accumulator after the system went water since the shell and tube condenser had leakage and the was a lot of water in the compressor and evaporator(Trio skinning drum ). Although i flushed out the system with nitrogen.
Was there a filter drier in the circuit? I'm sure there was one and that should have done its job and prevented clogging of the oil hole in the accumulator.
Yes but if you are not using nitrogen to brazes in the piping or if the liquid line drier stops collecting because it full and doesn’t catch everting on a bad electrical failure.
Well, there is not much to them the other thing that could happen is the bleed hole or the pressure equalization hole at the top of the outlet tube could get plug and if that happens when the compressor starts up it would suck all the oil and refrigerant into the compressor. The other thing you will see a lot of times they can rust out.
I worked for a company that serviced RTU's for large, well known corporations and I many techs, not just me, have replaced bad compressors (the same exact one, not on a tandem system) on the exact same package unit only a few months later as you mentioned. I really wonder now if it is a "backed up filter gauge" inside the accumulator which you mentioned. Thank you SOOO much. I had no idea I had to check that. How would you check for that in the field to properly diagnose the accumulator is the cause? (Assuming you already mechrometer on compressor and it is reading good).
I work for a Fluid Chillers Inc. And we just build a machine with a boil-off coil in the suction accumulator. This works really well. My liquid line temperature was 34 degrees before the subcooler heat exchanger which is on the liquid line before the mainstage TXV. This unit ran to -54 degrees Celsius. But this was the only a 8 ton ultra low temperature chiller. I'm curious to see what happens on a much larger unit like a 70-ton ultra-low temp. We've ran our process fluid as cold as -85 degrees Fahrenheit. That's using 507a and my suction line pressure is about -22. Imagine what that compression ratio is.
The compression ration must of be large. Are you using a Bitzer 2 stage compressor or is it set up as a Cascade system? Super cool that you are using a boil-off coil in the suction accumulator. There is an OEM I work with here in Canada and they often set their system up with those.
@@RefrigerationMentor yeah it's a two-stage bitzer. I was telling my boss in the other techs at my job all about your video and your TH-cam channel. We buy a ton of small Emerson condensing units for 2 ton and under Chillers. I should see if they would pay you to come to our facility in Lansing Michigan. I'm super duper impressed with your knowledge and experience.
Just discovered your channel when searching for the amount of oil to put in a new accumulator. I have replaced several accumulators in the past which have rusted out at the top near the solder connections. Just measured the oil that poured out of it and replaced it with the same amount. I have one on a 3 ton heat pump now that rusted out the bottom. No oil left to measure. Any suggestion on how much oil to add?
@@RefrigerationMentorI have found apprentice have a hard time understanding the accumulator and all its functions, the vacuum break is actually one of the most important functions of the accumulator, You should do a follow up on your video and explain that point. Great videos.
Question, If you have a heatpump that has frost line between accumulator and compressor on start up for a minute or so, do you think the vacuum break hole could be plugged, or more likely excess refrigerant has filled the vessel?
@@James-vf5gs what is your compressor superheat (checking superheat near the suction service valve) on start up when it frosts up, starts, and when it ran for 5-10 mins?
Saw this video while verifying my findings. Customer has had intermittent low pressure shutdowns, noisy compressor, and a rattling shutdown. Sloppy installation from my predecessor and a sloppy compressor swap while they tried to figure out the problem. Now the customer is needing another compressor and accumulator.
Great audio quality, what mic are you using. I just recorded this same video and I pushed the same rhing, replace the accumulator with a burnout. I did not think about oxidation clogging the screen though. Interesting the accumulators with the rotor compressor puts the screen across the top and the bottom is just a drilled hole. Seems like a better design.
No not all I have screens I have seen drawings of a some accumulators with just the u bend metering hole with no screen. I do not believe there is any easy way to check. Thermal camera on your phone from seek thermal or temp checks up the side of the accumulator. That’s not easy when it’s insulated.
Ty, scale-oxidation and oil breakdown are a major culprit of accumulator failure. Contamination from compressor burnout could also play a role but in my opinion is not as great.
Why is it that most condenser I come across do not have suction accumulators? Some have them but most of the ones do not. Is it manufacturer choice or ambient conditions? I’m not sure. Thanks in advance!
Usually you should see them on low temp applications. I recommend them on both MT/LT applications as this protect against Floodback but it almost always comes down to cost of the equipment.
You see them in low temp (LT) application because of a few things, these systems run at a lower superheat, coils can freeze over faster. You will have electric or hot gas defrosts in LT applications and after the defrost there is huge load on the evaporator and there is potential for refrigerant or oil to make its way back to the compressor.
@@RefrigerationMentor My refrigerator can process referigrant HFC 134a circulation maximum 6 psi. More than 6 psi, refrigrant circulation become under -20 psi. I hope it can be 10 - 15 psi.
Hey man. What could be the problem with an accumulator freezing and not the suction lime piping. Basically only from the accumulator to the compressor. Thats the start Point of the freez up.
@RefrigerationMentor should I maybe reclaim all gas charged and weigh in again? Might be that someone has added charge? You get to sites where people just add gas for no reason . Older Daikin package RY units
@@cesar235cs it’s not easy to troubleshoot but a few ways could be checking the temperature from the bottom to top or use a thermal imaging gun to see where the oil level is.
sir, we all know in refer system from evaporator slightly super heated vapour returns directly to compressor crankcase, not directly to the compressor suction side. from the crankcase compressor takes suction. why is that so? is it to eliminate risk of liquid refrigerant getting directly into the suction? or any other specific reasons? can you pls help?
@@RefrigerationMentor I believe it's for oil return. Long story short I'm pulling my hair out over a restriction I can't find, replaced filter drier and txv. Only thing left is the accumulator which also is frosting up around the bottom.
@@bbagscoot is it the pipe size or is it trapping somewhere else? Have you tried a thermal imager to see if the oil is in the accumulator? You will need to remove it to verify and you will know if it’s in the accumulator.
I've been doing this job for ten years and i learned something new.
I am happy you had the opportunity to see it here. What is your favourite part about working in the industry for 10 years?
First time seeing a cut away of an accumulator. Id love to see more cut away videos!
Thanks for watching. We have many more videos on this channel with cutaways
Appreciate your honesty. People--usually--don't mention their failure.
@@lloydsamuel1269 i have made many errors in refrigeration and mistakes happen all the time. We need to learn and grow from them so they do not happen again second time.
This is the first time I have ever seen or heard this, fantastic information, keep it going I will keep learning. Thank you
And now you know. Please share it with others. We also have a great free compressor troubleshooting guide you can access here offers.refrigerationmentor.com/free-guide
I am glad to find someone else talking about replacing accumulators. If your screen is plugged the oil level in the accumulator would rise to a level where it would become dangerous to the compressor. Depending on the holding volume of the compressor crank and the volume of the accumulator you either starve the oil return to the compressor or slug it to death. How did your compressor fail?
I totally agree and have seen many compressor fail because of this. I have caused a few for sure as I had to learn this the hard way. Thanks for sharing.
Still new to med-low. Appreciate the knowledge, Never knew this!
It is great to see you are investing in your knowledge. Great Job.
Didn't know.. Will definitively be more observant of this.
Thanks
Learning something new is incredible. Keep on learning.
Thanks for sharing this i just learned something new, this tells me to replace my accumulator after the system went water since the shell and tube condenser had leakage and the was a lot of water in the compressor and evaporator(Trio skinning drum ). Although i flushed out the system with nitrogen.
@@mikemuitati7109 we are really glad you took something away from this video. offers.refrigerationmentor.com/free-guide?
Wow, great information! Thank you for this video
Glad it was helpful!
Was there a filter drier in the circuit? I'm sure there was one and that should have done its job and prevented clogging of the oil hole in the accumulator.
Yes but if you are not using nitrogen to brazes in the piping or if the liquid line drier stops collecting because it full and doesn’t catch everting on a bad electrical failure.
Nice, learned something new today.
Thanks
Glad to hear it!
Besides the screen is that the only thing that can go bad on a Accumulator? Great video.
Well, there is not much to them the other thing that could happen is the bleed hole or the pressure equalization hole at the top of the outlet tube could get plug and if that happens when the compressor starts up it would suck all the oil and refrigerant into the compressor. The other thing you will see a lot of times they can rust out.
@@RefrigerationMentor Thanks
I worked for a company that serviced RTU's for large, well known corporations and I many techs, not just me, have replaced bad compressors (the same exact one, not on a tandem system) on the exact same package unit only a few months later as you mentioned. I really wonder now if it is a "backed up filter gauge" inside the accumulator which you mentioned. Thank you SOOO much. I had no idea I had to check that. How would you check for that in the field to properly diagnose the accumulator is the cause? (Assuming you already mechrometer on compressor and it is reading good).
I've always seen these at the side in the small systems but never knew what it does .
Awesome please share that knowledge with others.
I work for a Fluid Chillers Inc. And we just build a machine with a boil-off coil in the suction accumulator. This works really well. My liquid line temperature was 34 degrees before the subcooler heat exchanger which is on the liquid line before the mainstage TXV. This unit ran to -54 degrees Celsius. But this was the only a 8 ton ultra low temperature chiller. I'm curious to see what happens on a much larger unit like a 70-ton ultra-low temp. We've ran our process fluid as cold as -85 degrees Fahrenheit. That's using 507a and my suction line pressure is about -22. Imagine what that compression ratio is.
The compression ration must of be large. Are you using a Bitzer 2 stage compressor or is it set up as a Cascade system? Super cool that you are using a boil-off coil in the suction accumulator. There is an OEM I work with here in Canada and they often set their system up with those.
@@RefrigerationMentor yeah it's a two-stage bitzer. I was telling my boss in the other techs at my job all about your video and your TH-cam channel. We buy a ton of small Emerson condensing units for 2 ton and under Chillers. I should see if they would pay you to come to our facility in Lansing Michigan. I'm super duper impressed with your knowledge and experience.
Just discovered your channel when searching for the amount of oil to put in a new accumulator. I have replaced several accumulators in the past which have rusted out at the top near the solder connections. Just measured the oil that poured out of it and replaced it with the same amount.
I have one on a 3 ton heat pump now that rusted out the bottom. No oil left to measure. Any suggestion on how much oil to add?
I believe there is a calculation in the selection softwares. Check out westermeyerind.com/tools/
Thanks for your video TH-cam. maybe next time about dorin kompresor
Check out the Mastering CO2 playlist there a multiple videos with Dorin there.
Good video you didn't mention the vacuum brake at the top of the outlet and what its function is for. Very important to mention its function.
Yes, that is to prevent the compressor from slugging when the compressor starts up, if it has liquid in it.
@@RefrigerationMentorI have found apprentice have a hard time understanding the accumulator and all its functions, the vacuum break is actually one of the most important functions of the accumulator, You should do a follow up on your video and explain that point. Great videos.
Question,
If you have a heatpump that has frost line between accumulator and compressor on start up for a minute or so, do you think the vacuum break hole could be plugged, or more likely excess refrigerant has filled the vessel?
@@James-vf5gs what is your compressor superheat (checking superheat near the suction service valve) on start up when it frosts up, starts, and when it ran for 5-10 mins?
Saw this video while verifying my findings. Customer has had intermittent low pressure shutdowns, noisy compressor, and a rattling shutdown.
Sloppy installation from my predecessor and a sloppy compressor swap while they tried to figure out the problem.
Now the customer is needing another compressor and accumulator.
What merk you recommended "zero hvac" or Emerson,?
@@juniirawan7398 can you elaborate on your question?
Great video brother 💯💯💯💯
Thanks for the support
Great audio quality, what mic are you using.
I just recorded this same video and I pushed the same rhing, replace the accumulator with a burnout.
I did not think about oxidation clogging the screen though.
Interesting the accumulators with the rotor compressor puts the screen across the top and the bottom is just a drilled hole. Seems like a better design.
Thanks Ty! I usually use the Rode Video Mic or the iPhone mic.
All accumulator s gave screens, & its there a good way to check if its clogged?
No not all I have screens I have seen drawings of a some accumulators with just the u bend metering hole with no screen. I do not believe there is any easy way to check. Thermal camera on your phone from seek thermal or temp checks up the side of the accumulator. That’s not easy when it’s insulated.
Ty, scale-oxidation and oil breakdown are a major culprit of accumulator failure. Contamination from compressor burnout could also play a role but in my opinion is not as great.
Why is it that most condenser I come across do not have suction accumulators? Some have them but most of the ones do not. Is it manufacturer choice or ambient conditions? I’m not sure. Thanks in advance!
Usually you should see them on low temp applications. I recommend them on both MT/LT applications as this protect against Floodback but it almost always comes down to cost of the equipment.
thanks .
how to select the perfect size accumulator with any refrigeration system?
I have not sized one in a long time but I think they should hold about 50% of the charge for a single unit.
Hello nice video. I have a question. Why accumulator are mostly install on low temp application?
You see them in low temp (LT) application because of a few things, these systems run at a lower superheat, coils can freeze over faster. You will have electric or hot gas defrosts in LT applications and after the defrost there is huge load on the evaporator and there is potential for refrigerant or oil to make its way back to the compressor.
What would my pressures read if it plugs up?
The same it will just start to collect the oil out of the system.
Why the suction of compress can be under zero psi ?
@@dingdong1646 why are you running under 0 psi? most compressors you do not want to run that low.
@@RefrigerationMentor My refrigerator can process referigrant HFC 134a circulation maximum 6 psi. More than 6 psi, refrigrant circulation become under -20 psi. I hope it can be 10 - 15 psi.
Very good
Thanks
Hey man. What could be the problem with an accumulator freezing and not the suction lime piping. Basically only from the accumulator to the compressor. Thats the start Point of the freez up.
It could be full of liquid refrigerant and that’s where it is boiling off.
@RefrigerationMentor should I maybe reclaim all gas charged and weigh in again? Might be that someone has added charge? You get to sites where people just add gas for no reason . Older Daikin package RY units
@@Cpt_bike_riders You know the system better then me or anyone else so that would be your call. Good Luck.
How do you tell from the outside that the accumulator is plugged or is about to get plugged. Are they some signs or tests we can do. Thanks
Check Temperature from top to bottom or thermal imager
I install some residential heat pumps does suction accumulator do the same thing in residential?
Yes.
I didn't know either, thanks !!
Happy to help!
@@RefrigerationMentorHow can I troubleshoot accumulator , to check strainer , to make sure is not plugged up and accumulator full of oil???
@@cesar235cs it’s not easy to troubleshoot but a few ways could be checking the temperature from the bottom to top or use a thermal imaging gun to see where the oil level is.
Good message thanks
Always welcome
I chose to replace the accumulator but for different reason. I feared they would have too much moisture in the desiccant bag from overall usage
Thanks for sharing.
thanks for that info
No problem!
sir, we all know in refer system from evaporator slightly super heated vapour returns directly to compressor crankcase, not directly to the compressor suction side. from the crankcase compressor takes suction.
why is that so?
is it to eliminate risk of liquid refrigerant getting directly into the suction? or any other specific reasons?
can you pls help?
I don't full understand what you mean please ask the question again.
If your accumulator screen is clogged could this cause low suction pressure and over heating compressor?
That is a great question. What do you think?
Do you know what the purpose of that orifice and screen are for?
@@RefrigerationMentor I believe it's for oil return. Long story short I'm pulling my hair out over a restriction I can't find, replaced filter drier and txv. Only thing left is the accumulator which also is frosting up around the bottom.
@@bbagscoot is it the pipe size or is it trapping somewhere else? Have you tried a thermal imager to see if the oil is in the accumulator? You will need to remove it to verify and you will know if it’s in the accumulator.
@@RefrigerationMentor going back next week to check
hello my greeting heeeeeee 😅😃