I agree. I understand that overusing certain themes can cause desensitization towards them, but if anything is immune to that desensitization, I think this level of violence and gore is. Its just so deeply hardwired into our brains to be repulsed by it.
@@ctomsky It's 100% not immune, but the show does a good job of avoiding desensitization, for the most part. The killing of the Guardians and the last fight still hit strongly
There's a chance that I'm just not desensitized yet but I saw the use of ample gore to exemplify how fragile regular humans are as well as to emphasize the durability gap between them and the supes (and among supes). I think it does a decent job in showing the ramification of having so much power like when Invincible tries to save people by flying around but then ends up breaking tons of their bones or their arm comes off. Another example was in William's boyfriend getting actually fucked up. It makes the show feel like there are consequences which makes it more enjoyable.
Agreed. Adding more gore shows every fight could be their last-any person can be torn apart at any moment in a snap. Plus also it’s ironic because invincible is not so invincible is constantly spilling blood showing the Superman bleeds-even the title card every time shows this off having more blood on it every single episode-showing he isn’t invincible in his armored dna-but in his spirit to be better and to be human. The gore shows how quickly things can go to shit as most shows animated like this don’t have this much blood and it’s like a wake up slap-its not shocking every time but seeing the red blood coming out raises your eyes a bit and quirks your ears hearing the crunch worrying if that blow they just took might put them out the fight and they have to tap out or if it’s going to them one more step toward the grave than last time. And even though tons of gore is had-there isn’t much bruising or at least not for long-all the bruising and swelling on his face in the last fight with Omni man added a new level of sadness because usually it’s just holes or blood-now it’s made his face almost unrecognizable which kills you inside and it’s something you won’t forget-and it’s an impact on everything from the audience to the characters that won’t be forgotten. It’s like the little bit of innocence that was left to be had just got destroyed and there is no more innocence to be had. He always at the end of the day still looked like our boy invincible-no beating could change that-and the show took that away-and now we are scared it could happen again or it might be even worse next time. They put simple and recognizable details into the faces of the characters and we identify with them so when we see a massive change (like with William and invincible later) it really makes an impact-it’s like when you are a child and see someone get their hair cut-if you don’t understand it’s a way of life then it make you uncomfortable-this is a more extreme version of that. So this show used the gore to great effect and found new ways to make the violence traumatic.
Yup the gore in this show just shows the result of this level of fights and voilence. Its less this show overdoing it and more other shows underselling it.(wich is mainly cause of the rating they wanne have for that show.)
Agreed. It never stopped being any less disturbing to me. But it wasn't Mortal Kombat levels of blood and gore purely for the sake of shock value, it served a purpose.
I'm generally not a fan of Kirkman's writing style, but I feel like he's one of the few writers that can use violence, and the thing I noticed about the show was I never became desensitised. Yes it's violent but it's always grounded in character so it's difficult to ignore like in most media
Yeah, same here. Violence and danger in superhero shows comes off as fun and exciting, the way it's framed by the show/movie. But in this show, I felt scared for the characters and winced whenever they got hurt.
Nope, I never got desensitized to the gore. I was worried the entire time that some innocent person's skull was gonna get cracked open like an egg just around the corner, every episode.
I almost started to feel desensitized, but a small moment from the last episode really started making it hit for me. When Nolan killed the pilot who Mark saved and asks why Mark what the difference is when they die anyway, Mark says "he would have had a life," which really made me take a second to remember the humanity of everyone Nolan was killing.
Rex: "Tell you what, Robot; when you grow a pair you can tell me how I swing mine" Robot: "How about I just cut straight to growing and swinging your pair?"
I believe the over intense violence doesn’t create a “numbing” effect, I believe it shows the visceral reality of the genre, while you can become numb to it visually, the characters and story treat it very seriously thus making the viewer take it seriously, at least in my personal opinion.
I mean it does to me. Not in the sense that numbs me to the violence but more numbs me to the story. I've read the comics, though it's been forever and reread as a refresher I think the show tries too hard to make Omniman likable by doing the big reveal early. I love JK Simmons and he's a phenomenal actor, but I personally didn't like the fear that you would feel from him in almost every scene past the first episode. Rather than the comics that made you feel conflicted. In the comics it seems like omniman just surgically took them out and it was over before you even understood what was happening and it left a lot of ambiguity in the air about what it meant. I think that over reliance on violence doesn't really make the idealism of Mark's shine too brightly either because at least the comics had dozens of issues to build that up even after the Omniman reveal.
Totally agree. I can't remember ever being as shocked and affected by violence in a show as I was in Invincible. I think that's the point. Violence in shows is usually just so trivial. People get punched through buildings all the time in superhero media, and you never see any of the natural consequences of something like that. What Invincible is doing is the opposite of glorifying violence.
@@Uhcip Nobody cares. Cartoon/anime watchers going on about shit that makes the adaptation better than the source material are obnoxious. You see how easy I turned that around. Everyone should just enjoy what they want to enjoy while not putting other things down that other people enjoy. ps. I'm not saying you're doing that but I'm giving reason to why OP said what they said, even if it was a bit spoilery.
The train scene wasn't spectacle for the audience, Omni Man used that train as a metaphor for what Mark's life will be as a Viltrimite among humans. It's horrible, and that scene leads into Invincible failing to save that woman and child. The old woman from the alien invasion, Will's boyfriend, The Immortal, the pilots killed in front of Mark; haven't read the comics, but the fates of these people evidently impact him deeply. Instead of jaded, desensitized, or even swayed by Omni Man's arguments and violence, the loss and suffering of people around him ultimately emboldened Mark to use his powers for others. Invincible stands out because it's tone, characters, story, and messages are (almost) devoid of the cynicism, virtue-signaling, and general overproduction of too many modern programs. After Titan asks Mark for help, there is an exchange between himself, Debbie, and Nolan. Nolan essentially says "Don't waste your time, those people are beneath you", and Debbie basically replies "Helping people is never a waste of your time". That captured the essence of this shows heart, and is the thesis statement of Mark's devotion to Earth. That's why the violence is less Michael Bay, and more Game of Thrones.
@@Dakarai_Knight From light-hearted side plot to full-on tragedy. Gotta love that this show doesn't pull punches, and it only makes the characters richer for it
@@WuWeiAllDay like the whole Amber bs who somehow figure our identity of Mark even when she was crying about him not being there like in the comic? Robot and Monster Girl relationship? Maybe Omni-man reveal from EP1 instead of giving it time after flaxans and Allen where there was a clue for it, and spending rest of the show making him dick to the family before major comic plot beat says him not be? Mark beatdown doesn't work when Battle Beast already beaten his ass with rest of 75% people in the show, where comic established Mark as good hero only to everything going shit. Power escalation is made "for dramatic" effect so even some c-dudes could damage Nolan or Mark, unlike in the comic, and have them tank lasers, but that's a different talk. oh, and Debbie is your generic "cool mom" archetype, instead of nervous wreck with depression who tries to keep life together.
I actually find myself often being unimpressed with excessive gore, like in the Boys or some sorta horror movie, where people and guts are blowing up for sheer shock value. In Invincible's show, the gore specifically serves a purpose, that these characters aren't just remarkably powerful, but also that the ones who fight for the common man have to tread lightly to protect them. Every drip of blood throughout this series further serves as a lesson for our main characters, which makes it all the harder to watch when Omni-Man insists that everyone on the planet is just as easy to tear apart as Ants. When Mark is really willing to Die if it'll convince his dad he's wrong, that's the culmination of all that gore reaching an apex. As a self-proclaimed Earthling, Why is Mark's blood being spilt any different from the millions of humans Omniman just mutilated?
@@benvoliothefirst "Unimpressed with Excessive Gore" is my favorite. But I do agree that the show doesn't really overplay the gore too much; it just sort of feels defined by it. It's hard to talk about Invincible without talking about how bloody it is.
I never found myself getting desensitized to the gore. And the comic got just as gory during later issues. Most of the changes seem to just reflect the change in medium and the change in the time period. That said, I enjoy a lot of the changes. It makes the story feel fresh and makes me look forward to getting to know these characters again.
I think the observation this video is trying to make is more so in regards to the context in which violence is utilized in the comics vs the show. In the comics , the violence is often used to undercut, or subvert an otherwise classic/'comic-booky' style fight. It's meant to contrast with our expectations when reading a seemingly colorful and lighthearted story about superhero antics and highschool teenage drama. The show kind of throws out this storytelling device by simply putting violence into the forefront. Making it appear almost in every episode, and with the same gravitas every time. In doing so, it loses somewhat of its purpose, and leans into the realm of gratuitous.
@@emmanuelmadail In the comics, during the first episodes , the violence is used MOSTLY when Nolan is involved. It sends a message. not only that he is horribly overpowered. But also how much he looks down upon humanity itself. It's used as shock and Storytelling. In the show, it mostly feels like a mortal kombat match. I mean Atleast they remained consistent and Nolan is still the most violent and inhuman. But the gore feels toned up with no real purpose other than "violence sells". Wich,it's alright if this was an original show. But i feel like the show is going to suffer the same fate of Netflix Daredevil. where you get so used to the ammount of brutality that by the end of season 1 it's just expected and not shocking anymore.
I would argue that the violence desensitization is part of the point. During the entire final episode, including that bus scene, Omni man is trying to convince Mark to fall into cosmic nihilism, and is deliberately trying to desensitize Mark to violence against humans in order to make his point. This conversation about nihilism extends to the audience. We are forced to fight to see the meaning in the violence even when it is incredibly painful and difficult, just like Mark is.
one thing I noticed is that for the most part the gore is shown when the good guys fail like yeah the villains get a little bloody but for the most part it only gets excessive when the good guys screw up and I think that helps keep us from being desensitized as it still is subconsciously indicating Blood=Bad.
The comic book looks less gory because you're comparing it to the arcs drawn by Cory Walker. The later (and WAY better) artist, Ryan Ottley, is the one who ramped up the gore to the max. When the show hits his issues, i'm pretty sure the cartoon will look tame by comparison.
Part of me wonders if it won't have the same impact. While the comic book readers had to really wait for the hyperdetailed gore in ottley's books (conquest disemboweling mark comes to mind). That panel still gets me. I can't see the show having near the same impact when they get there because we've already seen 1000 goons and civilians get their brains turned into a pink mist.
@@davion4171 People will care because it's happening to Mark. Him throwing out his shoulder after his punch later in the series was still super shocking despite all we saw up to that point.
Some of it’s decent but I found one chapter in particular looked like a porn parody recreation of the comic it almost made me stop reading but it got cleared up after
In fairness, the show doesn't show any gore until after the Guardians murder either. It's that since that event happens at the end of the first episode it is easier to not notice.
I've seen unpixelated all the scenes they censored, and yet backwards blood vomit still bugs me the most. It's so quiet; so personal. One woman, dying alone, still faintly conscious of her ruined body. Then, unnoticed by her killer, release.
Y'all should've waited for more of the show to drop before doing this comparison. Also, everybody in these comments is right. The violence is supposed to be egregious and horrifying. These supers are cataclysmically powerful, sometimes in more ways than physical. The comic doesn't just parody superhero comics, it also includes pretty central themes of imperialism, generational trauma, survivor's guilt, and Mark's disillusionment of what it means to be a hero.
In a way, the use of gore so often starts to help the viewer understand and experience Omniman's desensitization to the the suffering of humanity or any other issue. He's not bothered by the gore, and to some degree, the viewer isn't either by the time he's telling us why humanity isn't important or what ever.
Yes, thats why in the comic most of the gore comes from viltrumite hands. And i tought they were going in that direction with the first episode wich was very restrained until the guardians assasination. But then every episode has a gorish moment just because. While the comic gets gradually more violent, the most shocking moment involves viltrumites. The comic does get more violent over time. But the show drops all the cards in the second episode onwards.
About the violence (and some mild spoilers ahead): the first fifty or so editions are relatively light on the hyperviolence and cruelty that is so prevalent in the show; Omni Man is a considerably more affable character, so his betrayal feels a bit more shocking (and his subsequent redemption more believable, really don't know how the show will deal with that considering he is much more of a psycopathic mass murderer there). But after that, the comic takes a sharp turn to hyperviolence and casual death of longtime characters. Some particular arcs, like Conquest, are stomach-churning as the subway scene, with violence fit for a horror comic. Not only that, but the relative inoccence of the beggining chapters goes away to some truly dark subject matter, including a particularly nasty scene of sexual violence. Part of me thinks that is the influence of Robert Kirkman other big series, The Walking Dead, full of tragedy and nihilism, bleeding in Invincible, so in that sense, the show is already catching up with the tone that the comic eventually gets. Which might explain why the tone in the first season is so uneven, with superhero soap-opera antics clashing hard with the gore. It is still a great comic, and gets really good again in its final arcs, so I'm curious in how they will conduct it in the show.
I feel like they looked at the entire series and saw where it was going. So to get the tone of the show more inline what would be seen later, they added all the subtle and not so subtle additions such as the gore and blood. Comics change and sometimes some series take some time to get into their stride. I personally think it's exactly where it needs to be, it's fun, exhilarating but also personal and at times real. Can't wait to see how they handle season 2!
The overall handling of Omniman, especially the subway scene, lead me to believe they plan to go in different directions, and he will never see redemption. For all the claims of being centred on moral ambiguity, from episode 1 Omniman felt, pun intended, cartoonishly evil, losing a lot of the depth I saw in the comics. Least, that's my take!
While I agree that coping with nihilism is prevelant throughout TWD, but nihilism isn't a vibe I really get from Invincible. I think am argument can be made that the world in which Invincible exists is one where a person couod very easily succumb to nihilism, but I think a major point of the story is how its characters get slapped in the face with brutal, unforgiving reality, and yet they chose to reject cynicism amyway. The rejection of cynicism amd chosing to embrace hope, love and the fullness of life is part of what makes Invincible and some of the other protagonists heroic in the first place. I think The Walking Dead and Invincible share the brutal violence and radical commitment to consequences, but beyond that, I almost find them to be an antithesis to each other. The Walkibg Dead explores the potential dark depths of humanity, while Invincible explores the potemtial transcendent hoghs of humanity. While I would say both series end on a good note in their own kind of way, I think the ending of Invincible completely rejects cynicism amd nihilism. I'd love to see someone do a comparative analysis between the two series, because Invincible is definitely the yin the TWD's yang that when put side by side paint a very holistic view of human nature, the human condition and our potential for both great darkness and great light.
@@Flailkerrin I hope they don't redeem Omni Man but I feel like they will which is part of why I dislike how psychopathic they made him like in the comic he still did some fucked up shit and his redemption imo was still a bit of a reach but at least there he didn't use Mark body to slaughter people on a train
@@mikemorro140 Part of me wonders if, just as they ramped up Omniman's evil, if they'll also push harder in the other direction and make him a serious redemptive-villain earlier than in the comics. He's still expressly operating as a Viltrumite agent for many, many issues after leaving Earth; he's just trying to be a bit nicer about it after his time on Earth with Mark and Debbie went so poorly and affected him so greatly (to the point he isn't willing to admit how much it's affected him until other viltrumites intrude and do things more traditionally just to fuck with him). Pushing his character further along its development earlier, where he truly recognizes the horror and evil of his work and his people and is willing to do almost anything to stop them, could be a very real strategy on the show's part. Hell, it takes until around the 90s-100s in the issue count before Omniman openly admits that traditional Viltrumite behavior can only be called utterly monstrous by Earth (and most other) standards. He's been making some reform efforts for his people by that point, but that doesn't change the evils of their past behavior. The Omniman who acknowledged the great wrongs he and his people have committed, and who dedicates himself to righting them, happening earlier could work if they do it right.
The show starting out is more gory than the storylines covered in the first season. I feel as the comic went one it started to reach the point where the bar for what gore was allowed was raised. But I'm no comic expert so it could have just been coincidence.
The script for this video is so completely phoned in... feels like when I had no idea of what to write for a paper but I just had to finish it before the deadline.
I think the gore in the show makes things more visceral. Every time I'd see it I'd get a kind of nausea or revulsion. I think the idea is to show that, unlike in properties like Marvel or DC, violence is horrifying and debilitating, destructive and terrifying. It can reduce you to nothing but a wad of meat. When Omniman was beating the shit out of his son, all I could think about is my son and how horrible that would be. I never felt desensitized. It sort of made me aware and thankful that I haven't experienced something that horrible as of yet. Anyhow, I think it's appropriate to the direction this show took.
On one hand, it would have been cool to see the gore stop with the Guardians of the Globe murder and only come back with the Mark vs Omniman fight. Would have definitely heightened emotional tension and importance even more. And honestly - yeah the gore in that fight didn’t stand out a ton because we have seen SO much gore (although obviously the subway is… unforgettable). However, the gore in the regular fights was a pretty interesting reminder of the horrors super heroes would actually face on a daily basis if they were real. Seeing people you are trying to save get obliterated in front of you would be traumatic to say the least, and the heightened gore throughout the show definitely accentuated that and made me consider the reality of super hero life a lot.
Well that's something the comic brings to the table later on by gradually amping on the violence and mark concerns about his role. I think the show dropped too much too early. It was an excellent first season, but when you drop all your cards on your first move , you gotta do something to follow up.
The show was definitely more impacting. It was adapted to suit it's audience better. The seriousness of being a hero, the moral implications that are usually glossed over in marvel movies, and the sheer brutality of the end of the first episode not only got us hooked into what's to come, but also kept us on our toes all throughout the show.
Not desensitized at all, the Invincible show does an amazing job parodying traditional super-hero fictions and the unexpected gore really accentuates that fact!
Honestly the thing about the Invincible show that sets it apart from stuff like The Boys and Watchmen for me is the serious hero stuff. Like those other series are like, a deconstruction of superheros conceptually, but I like how Invincible the show still lets superheroes (mostly) be heroic. Its deconstruction comes from examining the natural extreme of superheroes which tbh, is very welcome and unique right now.
@@Iliadic This is only true to The Boys when it comes to its source material. Garth Ennis is a violently opinionated guy. The show creator more like hates the justice system and corporate America but quite honestly embraces the superhero genre when it can, just treats the satirized superheroes as vehicles for real world points to make lol. It absolutely still has heroes that want to fight for the better good tho. It's not a total deconstruction nor a message of genuine hate towards DC/Marvel properties. That would be a surface-level observation.
fair enough. Sometimes I feel like in The Boys, the show at least, it's like, almost having nudity/gore for the sake of it and not to move the story along. It gets annoying.@@snowpoler
@@Iliadic Yeah I see your point too. (And sorry in advance for like the following novel lol, I guess I had a lot to add on but don't feel obligated to read it all) It mostly gets side-tracked with The Deep, I'd say. And season 3 definitely had the most of these moments. But at the same time when you think about it, season 3 was also the season most focused/heavy-handed on the wrong and the debauchery in showbiz and politics, then what it means to escape that. Invincible doesn't really tackle hedonism that way because it doesn't need to. It's got other themes in its radar and that's fine for both shows. So obviously there's deviations but I still think most gore-fests in seasons 1 and 2 and let's say quite a bunch in season 3 were either adding to a point, to a character or playing a good part to the plot. Like if you were to censor a lot of those you would still either not understand how they got from A to B, or it would kinda take away from the specific danger of the situation. As for the nudity, sure it could go without it at times but it being male nudity for most of the time also plays into the signature social commentary aspect of the show. Plus Hughie and Homelander's nudity for example, in s3 (teleporting but losing his clothes everytime; only time when he's out of his padded uniform), may come as shocking to some extent but they are moments that are very telling for the character generally. But uh yeah it's still actually the The Boys comics that do the senseless violence and sex stuff more in comparison. I would personally not reccomend them to anyone lol, not only are the characters one dimensional but there's some pretty upsetting depictions of SA as well. The show treats the topic of SA pretty seriously and doesn't have violent and unnecessarily graphic showcases of it. There's also genuine proof to the fact that Garth Ennis simply hates classic superheroes. Eric Kripke makes a lot of superhero-like characters in this to be antagonists too, but it's definitely not a hate letter to superheroes in general.
When gore is used in the show it’s always to elevate the consequences of a fight and I don’t think many people became desensitized because overall it’s still used sparingly
I think it’s great how your discussing Invincible. Your explanations on Moral Ambiguity really highlight what makes both of these variations of the story so good. Another excellent video. Can’t wait to see more.
You are 100% wrong on the gore. The gore is a constant reminder that none of this violence is cool or fun but destructive and chaotic. It fills you with a perpetual empathy that, by the time you get to the last episode, helps you feel even more pity for Mark as he's all that's standing between that gore and all humanity and makes it even more powerful when what actually saves earth isn't Mark's Vultrimite strength, but his human compassion.
I don't think the violence gets watered down throught the show. It's more like it ups the stakes, as it shows you that these superpowered individuals are just as killable in the first episode. Also, when you can tell the actual amount of collateral in a superhero story, it amounts to something.
I think Invincible is an amazing adaptation. Loving it so much, I went back to reread the whole run. It's amazing how quickly the stuff happens in the books when you don't have to wait for the next one to come out!
Yea I binged the comics just after finishing season one as well and though I now know the entire story for the show, I can’t wait to see the changes kirkman makes to better fit a potentially smaller sample size in syndicated television
I appreciate the grotesque violence, especially the fight between Mark and Omniman. It showed what the actual collateral damage would be like during the fight between Superman and Zodd in Man of Steel
I never once looked at the gore and thought "eh, this is just here for show" if anything it was a display of the weight every action carried, the train scene wasn't just upping the ante. that entire fight was Omni man showing mark, look How fragile and pointless all these people are, trying to save them is fruitless. this is also shown when Mark tries to hold up that building and save the mother and daughter, but is ultimately unable to save either of them. I'd say the better comparison between the show and the comics is pacing, the comics was less "just showing these guys in their normal lives and less super hero stuff" it was more the comic not wanting to linger on side plots and quickly getting to the climax, a lot of the comic was rushed and the show got the opportunity to take that time to go into those subplots to string them together more nicely
12:09 Holy expletive, Omni-Man actually does say “Think, Mark! Think!!” in the comic. I mean, the memes are still wrong because they show the scene/pose from the show, but that’s really funny.
The irony of that quote, "When you get one of your own you can tell me how to swing mine." HE DOES GET ONE OF HIS OWN AND IT IS ALSO REX'S. THEN HE SWINGS TOWARDS MONSTER GIRL ANYWAY THE PERSON HE TOLD HIM NOT TO SWING IT TOWARDS. That's some irony.....
I think s1 was better. One of those rare cases that the adaptation is batter. It's just more focused. The paising is is more fuelid. They also cut un necery story lines for more character development
@@yuvalgabay1023 i found the show to also be much better. Amber, Cecil, Donald, and William were ACTUAL CHARACTERS as opposed to nearly the entire 1st compendium, not to mention how much better atom eve, robot, and monster girl are
@@yuvalgabay1023 Nah, it was a trainwreck. Use of Battle Beast and just general inability of Mark to not bleed this season made me not care about Omni-man beatdown and characters become flatter or don't make sense (Amber). Contrast is not existand, which makes me feel bored because there's no status quo shift.
Feed your gluttonous maw, whether you hunger or not. Consumption is not your choice. It is the prerogative of the corporation. They decide what enters you and your life.
I think the seriousness of the superheroes in the show actually helped all the added gore that was on screen because it all felt like it had more impact in the long and short term. Every episode I watched was filled with a healthy bit of anxiety about what was about to happen next to the heroes or the citizens because it seemed like no one is ever safe in this show.
When you got to the part about the Terra knife opening a cold one, that would have been the perfect time to cut to Nolan flicking off the beer cap to threaten Art.
The comic has lots of blood. But gory moments, in which entrails and such are showed in very specific detail? Those are reserved to very specific moments of the story, in which a major plot point happens.
@@mikemorro140 ottley started at like issue seven, it didn't get super bloody till a lot after that, I think was just to match the tone, it just kept getting darker
What really ruined the impact of the violence in the show was how little the characters reacted to it when not being inflicted on themselves or people they cared about. The only time Invincible freaks out about civilians being hurt or killed is when he's in physical contact with them while they're alive. All those people in the alien invasion earlier (even the ones whose innards he gets covered with) don't seem to have any importance to him at all. Just the lady he tries to rescue and ends of injuring in the process. That's what really made the latter scenes fall flat for me. He'd already seen the kinda damage these fights could do but for some reason only cared about it when it was related to his dad.
I'm super sensitive to gratuitous violence, but I loved how it was used in Invincible. I completely disagree with your guys' take on it. I think that while it is gratuitous, it's always to show how horrific the violence itself is. I don't think the consistency of the violence is a weakness, I think it's a strength.
In the last episode of the 1st season, there was an exorbitant amount of gore, though, it never got old or less difficult to watch. Particularly, for me, the scene where the little girl and her mother were being saved from the falling building. I watched it a few times to try and process it and had to actually stop watching the show for a bit to recollect myself. I was in actual tears watching that scene and the following scenes wore me down.
I think that ultraviolence works great in the show, it made me physically uncomfortable, and made me ask a lot of questions, invoking the feelings of powerlessness and insignificance. However, I think a teenage boy would definitely suffer from PTSD after witnessing so many gruesome deaths, and the show kinda glossed over that, which is a shame.
when i was watching, the gore never got better. seeing that much detail added a realism of the pure hurt all the characters were going through. it also helps to know that mark will recover eventually but knowing he still feels that pain.
I think I disagree the abundance of violence desensitizes you. I think the abundance of violence adds some extreme contrast to when Atom Eve chooses to go off by herself to help people. She chooses to help people without violence. Whereas before this point it seems the only way to help people was to punch bad guys. Now sure, non-violence isn't always the option, but I still think it's something to think about.
One thing I think the comic does better is let time pass between events. Like you said, the show rearranges events so they all communicate the same theme, however in real life that's not the case. People experience different things at different points in their life. For example the Lizard League was a joke for the first half of the comic until all the super powerful heroes were away, seeing the mid-tier heroes try to beat the Lizard League recontextualizes them and makes them way more menacing, but also just shows you how much more people the Guardians and Viltrumites are.
This show has been the best viewing experience I had, maybe, since the haunting of hill house. Yes the gore is insane, but it's a reminder of the power scale within this universe. It is visceral and even more impactful for the psychological development of the characters. I loved the série and hope for a good season 2 someday :D Cheer guys!
What sets Invincible apart from other superhero deconstructions for me is the lack of cynicism. The violence and mass murder can be gruesome, and as an NYC native the last episode was just difficult to watch, but unlike The Boys and Watchmen, there's always heart, hope, and love. The scene of the Guardians saving survivors after the battle in Chicago was a perfect palette cleanser. Where Omniman says "people are fragile and worth nothing" the show itself says "people are fragile and therefore worth protecting". It keeps me invested, and I hope Invincible never loses that.
Invincible's show writers have done a great job adapting the comic for television, I hope they stick to it and don't tone it down for the season 2 like some Japanese anime do by changing the blood to white after some criticism.
This is actually a really big fear of mine. Season one was done so well I just hope there's consistency in the quality of the show going forward while still maintaining what made season one so gripping
11:20 in the comics the reason for them invading in the middle nowhere was supposedly less resistance (which there was). The invasion of London later on in the series was for personal reasons for destruction.
@@SquishyProductions considering the dude is taking the chance to create a more fleshed out version of the original story it might be kept but just handled more maturely beyond just shock value.
Idk. Even with all the blood, guts, and things being super violent in every fight, that brutal beat down Nolan gave Mark was a moment that came in full force. No desensitization at all when it came to that.
I’m currently reading DUNE and I am absolutely loving it! The new film is set to release this year and I would love to see DUNE given the book vs. film treatment!
Well, that's gonna be a no one me for desensitization. Every single time I was horrified at the gore. But every time I told myself, "yeah, that's actually what would happen, tons of people get killed with superheroes smash buildings." As for rearranging narrative and changing the narrative tone, I liked those changes and I think they were wise.
Love them both, and I was really happy when the show did it justice and made the story known to more people. I don't understand why you keep saying that Omniman's betrayal is much later in the comic books, though. I remember it being on the first volume (I have an italian copy though so it may be the first two volumes)
I think they might've been saying the killing of the Guardians was later cause in the comic it was a couple issues in while it was the first episode of the show
I thought about that desensitization when I remembered Conquest or Thragg, like how is the show gonna convey just how brutal they are in comparison to Omni-Man
Cecil and Ironman would love each other! Cecil sent 2 jets knowing there was a high chance they could die but also a chance that the kid who grew up with his father for 17 years and has the same powers as him might be able to “think of something”. Did you notice that the woman and child Mark was trying to save he could have saved one maybe if he let one go if he let go of the building he could have used super speed to shield the woman’s body or vice versa! But he couldn’t make that choice!
Book VS Film idea : Jurassic park, both amazing pieces of art. Though I am not a reference in philosophy, I am pretty sure it would be pretty good material for an episode.
That opening episode scene I was not ready for at all. The tone of the show shifted so hard in that moment that I actually got sick to my stomach. I think the violence throughout the show is shown in a semi-realistic way that doesn't desensitize you but rather serves as a reminder of the stakes at play.
I wouldn't say the violence is overdone. Some fight scenes don't feature any gore, and some only feature gore at select parts. Additionally, there are plenty of conflict that arises in normal situations, and there are moments completely wholesome. The show keeps a balance throughout
Whenever I watched the show I was always on edge, worrying about everyone that was on screen and whenever Omniman walking around. The final fight reminds me of how easy it is for people to die, that no matter what people will die. Media really doesn’t acknowledge it
Something I wanna see more of is the story recognizing how utterly devastating a superhero fight can be. After all, for those who has read the series, Earth is in for a lot, I mean A LOT, of world ending, globally cataclysmic shit storm. Two hints: dinosaurs, and Marks.
I feel like the gore is never excessive really, or that it’s used in a way that desensitizes the audience. At least not yet. Invincible feels very careful with what kind of gore it shows. Every impact breaks the right bones, every cut spills whatever was actually supposed to be behind it, every punch feels like it does exactly as much damage at it was supposed to. I think this compliments the theme of moral ambiguity because it shows the proper repercussions for the amount of damage a superhero can do. For them to wield that much power not just encourages but requires them to consider all the squishy people. The gore of the Klaxon invasion feels like what it would be if an army suddenly showed up in a city and just opened fire. If anything it’s toned down for that. Whenever people in the show, super or not, are majorly injured they spend a significant amount of time in recovery. My favorite example is the boyfriend who gets turned into a cyborg. His movements and all the sound effects sound what you would expect from a human who’s had so much of their body horribly disfigured and replaced. They take care with the gore rather then just dumping buckets of it on screen because they want us to think about each impact and what it means. Which in my opinion helps make the fights more tense
The violence in the finale just amped up my hate for omni-man second by second. I appreciate that the show is willing to show us the violence because it gives everything stakes.
I loved the comic, a few hard hitting feeling moments here and there, and the show tries to respect that, but gives old and new viewers/reader something new every episode ( I really really dont like Amber though ")
Add Debbie to that train ride. If I hadn't read the comic I would probably like the show, as it is right now it's pretty much a hate watch for me, sigh I know, I'm not being forced to watch it but masochism is a thing sadly.
It was kind of fantastic they managed to make Omniman seem almost morally superior to most of the people in control. It kind of highlights you can be a largely morally right person can still be evil and worthy of opposition. It makes it even more important : the corruption of the good.
I DO miss the lightheartedness of the Invincible comics, something was lost when the show hit everything with the drama stick. Invincible was a great contrast to the edgy superhero media being produced at the time. Now it's another frequently violent and downer piece of superhero media among a legion of em. Still a good story, but a changed story, and it's role among its peers is changed. Love both thankfully
i was just thinking about this. in fact, conquest vs Invincible 1, the Invincible war, conquest vs Invincible 2, Amber's leg and battle beast vs thragg will all completely nullify this video
I think the two groups of creators' visions were two separate ideas. Sure, you could compare them. But I truly believe the intended take-aways are undeniably separate. One tries to throw a teenage boy into a reality where he's just *mostly* used to it all until his psycho father stirs the pot (comics); while the other intends to show the very grim reality of true larger-than-life threats - especially on a mind of which both idolized the ideals of the lifestyle and believes in the importance of human life (animation). I, personally, related to the animation a bit more. But I can see how the comics were equally important in the development of both this series, and how those reading it understood the wider scope of the genre as a whole.
The art style is so clean and sanitized that when someone gets turned inside out it won't ever not be effective especially when it's not every 5 seconds, they treat it with weight and don't shy away from the horror and shock of what's happening
I'd argue the violence feels consistently painful throughout the show. The last episode hits harder than any other violence in the show.
I agree. I understand that overusing certain themes can cause desensitization towards them, but if anything is immune to that desensitization, I think this level of violence and gore is. Its just so deeply hardwired into our brains to be repulsed by it.
@@ctomsky It's 100% not immune, but the show does a good job of avoiding desensitization, for the most part. The killing of the Guardians and the last fight still hit strongly
Yeah I was begging that Omniman would not kill the pilot.
The train scene… can’t remember the last time I felt that way about TV brutality
And the trivialisation of violence even helped a bit. Made me wonder if omniman was right and Mark should join him
There's a chance that I'm just not desensitized yet but I saw the use of ample gore to exemplify how fragile regular humans are as well as to emphasize the durability gap between them and the supes (and among supes). I think it does a decent job in showing the ramification of having so much power like when Invincible tries to save people by flying around but then ends up breaking tons of their bones or their arm comes off. Another example was in William's boyfriend getting actually fucked up. It makes the show feel like there are consequences which makes it more enjoyable.
Agreed. Adding more gore shows every fight could be their last-any person can be torn apart at any moment in a snap.
Plus also it’s ironic because invincible is not so invincible is constantly spilling blood showing the Superman bleeds-even the title card every time shows this off having more blood on it every single episode-showing he isn’t invincible in his armored dna-but in his spirit to be better and to be human.
The gore shows how quickly things can go to shit as most shows animated like this don’t have this much blood and it’s like a wake up slap-its not shocking every time but seeing the red blood coming out raises your eyes a bit and quirks your ears hearing the crunch worrying if that blow they just took might put them out the fight and they have to tap out or if it’s going to them one more step toward the grave than last time.
And even though tons of gore is had-there isn’t much bruising or at least not for long-all the bruising and swelling on his face in the last fight with Omni man added a new level of sadness because usually it’s just holes or blood-now it’s made his face almost unrecognizable which kills you inside and it’s something you won’t forget-and it’s an impact on everything from the audience to the characters that won’t be forgotten. It’s like the little bit of innocence that was left to be had just got destroyed and there is no more innocence to be had. He always at the end of the day still looked like our boy invincible-no beating could change that-and the show took that away-and now we are scared it could happen again or it might be even worse next time.
They put simple and recognizable details into the faces of the characters and we identify with them so when we see a massive change (like with William and invincible later) it really makes an impact-it’s like when you are a child and see someone get their hair cut-if you don’t understand it’s a way of life then it make you uncomfortable-this is a more extreme version of that.
So this show used the gore to great effect and found new ways to make the violence traumatic.
Yup the gore in this show just shows the result of this level of fights and voilence. Its less this show overdoing it and more other shows underselling it.(wich is mainly cause of the rating they wanne have for that show.)
Yes, this, I 100% agree.
Yeah that's fair it's just the comic was a little more tongue and cheek and monster of the week in between big arcs.
Agreed. It never stopped being any less disturbing to me. But it wasn't Mortal Kombat levels of blood and gore purely for the sake of shock value, it served a purpose.
I love that Invincible was referenced in King of the Hill and the character of Donald is seen as an adult Bobby Hill
Wait what? They referenced Invincible in King of the Hill?!
@@Snarl_Marx hol up
@@mathieuleader8601 holy hell, they absolutely did! That's incredible. Mike Judge, man. What a legend.
Honestly I'm pretty sure I thought the same thing when watching Invincible, or maybe that was the Honest Trailers I don't remember
all i saw was bobby 😂👀
I'm generally not a fan of Kirkman's writing style, but I feel like he's one of the few writers that can use violence, and the thing I noticed about the show was I never became desensitised. Yes it's violent but it's always grounded in character so it's difficult to ignore like in most media
This exactly explains how I felt about the violence in this show.
Yeah, same here. Violence and danger in superhero shows comes off as fun and exciting, the way it's framed by the show/movie. But in this show, I felt scared for the characters and winced whenever they got hurt.
@Clippy you can't compare Castlevania with this crappy show.
@@joshuegv-4492 I know you're not calling invincible crappy lmao
@Clippy bad taste much?
Nope, I never got desensitized to the gore. I was worried the entire time that some innocent person's skull was gonna get cracked open like an egg just around the corner, every episode.
I almost started to feel desensitized, but a small moment from the last episode really started making it hit for me. When Nolan killed the pilot who Mark saved and asks why Mark what the difference is when they die anyway, Mark says "he would have had a life," which really made me take a second to remember the humanity of everyone Nolan was killing.
I was the same way! I'm also a relatively new father, so anytime a kid was on screen my gut clinched up, and I started having a tiny panic attack
Man, that gore just didn't do anything for me... LIke, Nothing.
I guess that means i'm dead inside.
Man, I thought I was toast back there!
@@i_boole6639 or you've been on deviantart for awhile
Rex: "Tell you what, Robot; when you grow a pair you can tell me how I swing mine"
Robot: "How about I just cut straight to growing and swinging your pair?"
I believe the over intense violence doesn’t create a “numbing” effect, I believe it shows the visceral reality of the genre, while you can become numb to it visually, the characters and story treat it very seriously thus making the viewer take it seriously, at least in my personal opinion.
I mean it does to me. Not in the sense that numbs me to the violence but more numbs me to the story. I've read the comics, though it's been forever and reread as a refresher I think the show tries too hard to make Omniman likable by doing the big reveal early. I love JK Simmons and he's a phenomenal actor, but I personally didn't like the fear that you would feel from him in almost every scene past the first episode. Rather than the comics that made you feel conflicted. In the comics it seems like omniman just surgically took them out and it was over before you even understood what was happening and it left a lot of ambiguity in the air about what it meant.
I think that over reliance on violence doesn't really make the idealism of Mark's shine too brightly either because at least the comics had dozens of issues to build that up even after the Omniman reveal.
I’d agree almost word for word with what you said
@@sunphoenix1231
I feel like Omni Man comes off much worse in the show than the comic(which I'm not sure is purposeful or not)
Totally agree. I can't remember ever being as shocked and affected by violence in a show as I was in Invincible. I think that's the point. Violence in shows is usually just so trivial. People get punched through buildings all the time in superhero media, and you never see any of the natural consequences of something like that. What Invincible is doing is the opposite of glorifying violence.
“The comics aren’t nearly as gorey as the show.”
*Conquest, Thragg, and brutal sexual assault laugh hysterically in the distance*
Remember when the comics decided to give Amber and Mark privacy and show Allen's story.
Nobody cares. Comic/manga readers going on about shit that hasn't happened in an adaptation are obnoxious.
@@Uhcip Nobody cares. Cartoon/anime watchers going on about shit that makes the adaptation better than the source material are obnoxious. You see how easy I turned that around. Everyone should just enjoy what they want to enjoy while not putting other things down that other people enjoy.
ps. I'm not saying you're doing that but I'm giving reason to why OP said what they said, even if it was a bit spoilery.
The amount of gore does make me afraid how cared away the show might get for the sex scenes
My reaction to season 1: didn't see enough intestines
Like hell the show is gorier
The train scene wasn't spectacle for the audience, Omni Man used that train as a metaphor for what Mark's life will be as a Viltrimite among humans.
It's horrible, and that scene leads into Invincible failing to save that woman and child.
The old woman from the alien invasion, Will's boyfriend, The Immortal, the pilots killed in front of Mark; haven't read the comics, but the fates of these people evidently impact him deeply.
Instead of jaded, desensitized, or even swayed by Omni Man's arguments and violence, the loss and suffering of people around him ultimately emboldened Mark to use his powers for others.
Invincible stands out because it's tone, characters, story, and messages are (almost) devoid of the cynicism, virtue-signaling, and general overproduction of too many modern programs.
After Titan asks Mark for help, there is an exchange between himself, Debbie, and Nolan.
Nolan essentially says "Don't waste your time, those people are beneath you", and Debbie basically replies "Helping people is never a waste of your time". That captured the essence of this shows heart, and is the thesis statement of Mark's devotion to Earth.
That's why the violence is less Michael Bay, and more Game of Thrones.
I really hope Williams boyfriend Rick is ok. I wanna see more of them.
@@Dakarai_Knight From light-hearted side plot to full-on tragedy. Gotta love that this show doesn't pull punches, and it only makes the characters richer for it
@@WuWeiAllDay phhhh, more like punches without built up .
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 Lmao which punches?
@@WuWeiAllDay like the whole Amber bs who somehow figure our identity of Mark even when she was crying about him not being there like in the comic? Robot and Monster Girl
relationship? Maybe Omni-man reveal from EP1 instead of giving it time after flaxans and Allen where there was a clue for it, and spending rest of the show making him dick to the family before major comic plot beat says him not be? Mark beatdown doesn't work when Battle Beast already beaten his ass with rest of 75% people in the show, where comic established Mark as good hero only to everything going shit. Power escalation is made "for dramatic" effect so even some c-dudes could damage Nolan or Mark, unlike in the comic, and have them tank lasers, but that's a different talk. oh, and Debbie is your generic "cool mom" archetype, instead of nervous wreck with depression who tries to keep life together.
I actually find myself often being unimpressed with excessive gore, like in the Boys or some sorta horror movie, where people and guts are blowing up for sheer shock value. In Invincible's show, the gore specifically serves a purpose, that these characters aren't just remarkably powerful, but also that the ones who fight for the common man have to tread lightly to protect them. Every drip of blood throughout this series further serves as a lesson for our main characters, which makes it all the harder to watch when Omni-Man insists that everyone on the planet is just as easy to tear apart as Ants. When Mark is really willing to Die if it'll convince his dad he's wrong, that's the culmination of all that gore reaching an apex. As a self-proclaimed Earthling, Why is Mark's blood being spilt any different from the millions of humans Omniman just mutilated?
I felt that it was similarly used in The Boys, but The Boys has a lot of comedic affect that undercuts it.
"Self-Proclaimed Earthling" is my favorite prog rock band.
@@benvoliothefirst "Unimpressed with Excessive Gore" is my favorite.
But I do agree that the show doesn't really overplay the gore too much; it just sort of feels defined by it. It's hard to talk about Invincible without talking about how bloody it is.
The Boys is satire and dark comedy, so the gore is exaggerated as a joke
@@LuisSierra42 Sometimes but a lot of the time the gore is intended to shock us.
I never found myself getting desensitized to the gore. And the comic got just as gory during later issues.
Most of the changes seem to just reflect the change in medium and the change in the time period.
That said, I enjoy a lot of the changes. It makes the story feel fresh and makes me look forward to getting to know these characters again.
SCARY!!
Not to mention that the desensitization take is super 90s and generally speaking is a debatable phenomenon at best lol.
I think the observation this video is trying to make is more so in regards to the context in which violence is utilized in the comics vs the show.
In the comics , the violence is often used to undercut, or subvert an otherwise classic/'comic-booky' style fight. It's meant to contrast with our expectations when reading a seemingly colorful and lighthearted story about superhero antics and highschool teenage drama.
The show kind of throws out this storytelling device by simply putting violence into the forefront. Making it appear almost in every episode, and with the same gravitas every time. In doing so, it loses somewhat of its purpose, and leans into the realm of gratuitous.
@@emmanuelmadail like the show just goes into shock value instead of having purpose?
@@emmanuelmadail In the comics, during the first episodes , the violence is used MOSTLY when Nolan is involved. It sends a message. not only that he is horribly overpowered. But also how much he looks down upon humanity itself. It's used as shock and Storytelling. In the show, it mostly feels like a mortal kombat match. I mean Atleast they remained consistent and Nolan is still the most violent and inhuman. But the gore feels toned up with no real purpose other than "violence sells". Wich,it's alright if this was an original show.
But i feel like the show is going to suffer the same fate of Netflix Daredevil. where you get so used to the ammount of brutality that by the end of season 1 it's just expected and not shocking anymore.
I would argue that the violence desensitization is part of the point. During the entire final episode, including that bus scene, Omni man is trying to convince Mark to fall into cosmic nihilism, and is deliberately trying to desensitize Mark to violence against humans in order to make his point. This conversation about nihilism extends to the audience. We are forced to fight to see the meaning in the violence even when it is incredibly painful and difficult, just like Mark is.
one thing I noticed is that for the most part the gore is shown when the good guys fail like yeah the villains get a little bloody but for the most part it only gets excessive when the good guys screw up and I think that helps keep us from being desensitized as it still is subconsciously indicating Blood=Bad.
The comic book looks less gory because you're comparing it to the arcs drawn by Cory Walker. The later (and WAY better) artist, Ryan Ottley, is the one who ramped up the gore to the max. When the show hits his issues, i'm pretty sure the cartoon will look tame by comparison.
Exactly
Part of me wonders if it won't have the same impact. While the comic book readers had to really wait for the hyperdetailed gore in ottley's books (conquest disemboweling mark comes to mind). That panel still gets me. I can't see the show having near the same impact when they get there because we've already seen 1000 goons and civilians get their brains turned into a pink mist.
@@davion4171 People will care because it's happening to Mark. Him throwing out his shoulder after his punch later in the series was still super shocking despite all we saw up to that point.
I was gonna say, I tried reading the comic but was grossed out by the art. It is BAD
Some of it’s decent but I found one chapter in particular looked like a porn parody recreation of the comic it almost made me stop reading but it got cleared up after
The last two episodes of this season were some of the most intense and best Television I’ve seen since probably Breaking Bad
oh do you mean "the wire" for white people ?
@@swifter1151 what?
You're a towel towelie
@@kevinrussell1587 No. You’re a towel
@@paperiscool apparently BB is only for white people?
If the violence felt trivialized at the end, then Omniman's point would have been validated: that human suffering is trivial and ignorable.
In fairness, the show doesn't show any gore until after the Guardians murder either. It's that since that event happens at the end of the first episode it is easier to not notice.
Wisecrack: excuse use while we censor most of the gore.
Also wisecrack: excuse us while we completely show the most gruesome scene
I've seen unpixelated all the scenes they censored, and yet backwards blood vomit still bugs me the most. It's so quiet; so personal. One woman, dying alone, still faintly conscious of her ruined body. Then, unnoticed by her killer, release.
Y'all should've waited for more of the show to drop before doing this comparison. Also, everybody in these comments is right. The violence is supposed to be egregious and horrifying. These supers are cataclysmically powerful, sometimes in more ways than physical. The comic doesn't just parody superhero comics, it also includes pretty central themes of imperialism, generational trauma, survivor's guilt, and Mark's disillusionment of what it means to be a hero.
yeah but a good chunk of that stuff happens later and is built up to here Mark already isn't feeling the superhero stuff after one season
In a way, the use of gore so often starts to help the viewer understand and experience Omniman's desensitization to the the suffering of humanity or any other issue. He's not bothered by the gore, and to some degree, the viewer isn't either by the time he's telling us why humanity isn't important or what ever.
Yes, thats why in the comic most of the gore comes from viltrumite hands. And i tought they were going in that direction with the first episode wich was very restrained until the guardians assasination. But then every episode has a gorish moment just because.
While the comic gets gradually more violent, the most shocking moment involves viltrumites. The comic does get more violent over time. But the show drops all the cards in the second episode onwards.
About the violence (and some mild spoilers ahead): the first fifty or so editions are relatively light on the hyperviolence and cruelty that is so prevalent in the show; Omni Man is a considerably more affable character, so his betrayal feels a bit more shocking (and his subsequent redemption more believable, really don't know how the show will deal with that considering he is much more of a psycopathic mass murderer there). But after that, the comic takes a sharp turn to hyperviolence and casual death of longtime characters. Some particular arcs, like Conquest, are stomach-churning as the subway scene, with violence fit for a horror comic. Not only that, but the relative inoccence of the beggining chapters goes away to some truly dark subject matter, including a particularly nasty scene of sexual violence. Part of me thinks that is the influence of Robert Kirkman other big series, The Walking Dead, full of tragedy and nihilism, bleeding in Invincible, so in that sense, the show is already catching up with the tone that the comic eventually gets. Which might explain why the tone in the first season is so uneven, with superhero soap-opera antics clashing hard with the gore. It is still a great comic, and gets really good again in its final arcs, so I'm curious in how they will conduct it in the show.
I feel like they looked at the entire series and saw where it was going. So to get the tone of the show more inline what would be seen later, they added all the subtle and not so subtle additions such as the gore and blood.
Comics change and sometimes some series take some time to get into their stride. I personally think it's exactly where it needs to be, it's fun, exhilarating but also personal and at times real.
Can't wait to see how they handle season 2!
The overall handling of Omniman, especially the subway scene, lead me to believe they plan to go in different directions, and he will never see redemption. For all the claims of being centred on moral ambiguity, from episode 1 Omniman felt, pun intended, cartoonishly evil, losing a lot of the depth I saw in the comics. Least, that's my take!
While I agree that coping with nihilism is prevelant throughout TWD, but nihilism isn't a vibe I really get from Invincible. I think am argument can be made that the world in which Invincible exists is one where a person couod very easily succumb to nihilism, but I think a major point of the story is how its characters get slapped in the face with brutal, unforgiving reality, and yet they chose to reject cynicism amyway. The rejection of cynicism amd chosing to embrace hope, love and the fullness of life is part of what makes Invincible and some of the other protagonists heroic in the first place. I think The Walking Dead and Invincible share the brutal violence and radical commitment to consequences, but beyond that, I almost find them to be an antithesis to each other. The Walkibg Dead explores the potential dark depths of humanity, while Invincible explores the potemtial transcendent hoghs of humanity. While I would say both series end on a good note in their own kind of way, I think the ending of Invincible completely rejects cynicism amd nihilism. I'd love to see someone do a comparative analysis between the two series, because Invincible is definitely the yin the TWD's yang that when put side by side paint a very holistic view of human nature, the human condition and our potential for both great darkness and great light.
@@Flailkerrin
I hope they don't redeem Omni Man but I feel like they will which is part of why I dislike how psychopathic they made him like in the comic he still did some fucked up shit and his redemption imo was still a bit of a reach but at least there he didn't use Mark body to slaughter people on a train
@@mikemorro140 Part of me wonders if, just as they ramped up Omniman's evil, if they'll also push harder in the other direction and make him a serious redemptive-villain earlier than in the comics. He's still expressly operating as a Viltrumite agent for many, many issues after leaving Earth; he's just trying to be a bit nicer about it after his time on Earth with Mark and Debbie went so poorly and affected him so greatly (to the point he isn't willing to admit how much it's affected him until other viltrumites intrude and do things more traditionally just to fuck with him).
Pushing his character further along its development earlier, where he truly recognizes the horror and evil of his work and his people and is willing to do almost anything to stop them, could be a very real strategy on the show's part. Hell, it takes until around the 90s-100s in the issue count before Omniman openly admits that traditional Viltrumite behavior can only be called utterly monstrous by Earth (and most other) standards. He's been making some reform efforts for his people by that point, but that doesn't change the evils of their past behavior. The Omniman who acknowledged the great wrongs he and his people have committed, and who dedicates himself to righting them, happening earlier could work if they do it right.
The Comic is not as gorry as the show. HA. They haven't reached the Conquest storyline.
And the fact that mark and thragg fight on the sun until their skin melts down to their skeleton
The show starting out is more gory than the storylines covered in the first season. I feel as the comic went one it started to reach the point where the bar for what gore was allowed was raised. But I'm no comic expert so it could have just been coincidence.
Exactly what I was about to say. This series does not slow down
And now I'm terrified for season 2.
@@MrWarriorace as am I. Even guessing what a Season 2 and a Season 3 may include fills me with fear and excitement.
The script for this video is so completely phoned in... feels like when I had no idea of what to write for a paper but I just had to finish it before the deadline.
"I'm 'bout to kick my dad's ass"
Freud twitches slightly in his grave
I think the gore in the show makes things more visceral. Every time I'd see it I'd get a kind of nausea or revulsion. I think the idea is to show that, unlike in properties like Marvel or DC, violence is horrifying and debilitating, destructive and terrifying. It can reduce you to nothing but a wad of meat. When Omniman was beating the shit out of his son, all I could think about is my son and how horrible that would be. I never felt desensitized. It sort of made me aware and thankful that I haven't experienced something that horrible as of yet. Anyhow, I think it's appropriate to the direction this show took.
On one hand, it would have been cool to see the gore stop with the Guardians of the Globe murder and only come back with the Mark vs Omniman fight. Would have definitely heightened emotional tension and importance even more. And honestly - yeah the gore in that fight didn’t stand out a ton because we have seen SO much gore (although obviously the subway is… unforgettable).
However, the gore in the regular fights was a pretty interesting reminder of the horrors super heroes would actually face on a daily basis if they were real. Seeing people you are trying to save get obliterated in front of you would be traumatic to say the least, and the heightened gore throughout the show definitely accentuated that and made me consider the reality of super hero life a lot.
Well that's something the comic brings to the table later on by gradually amping on the violence and mark concerns about his role. I think the show dropped too much too early. It was an excellent first season, but when you drop all your cards on your first move , you gotta do something to follow up.
"It made mer horrified to ride the train ever again"
Me too, so glad I can work from home lol
The show was definitely more impacting. It was adapted to suit it's audience better. The seriousness of being a hero, the moral implications that are usually glossed over in marvel movies, and the sheer brutality of the end of the first episode not only got us hooked into what's to come, but also kept us on our toes all throughout the show.
Not desensitized at all, the Invincible show does an amazing job parodying traditional super-hero fictions and the unexpected gore really accentuates that fact!
Honestly the thing about the Invincible show that sets it apart from stuff like The Boys and Watchmen for me is the serious hero stuff. Like those other series are like, a deconstruction of superheros conceptually, but I like how Invincible the show still lets superheroes (mostly) be heroic. Its deconstruction comes from examining the natural extreme of superheroes which tbh, is very welcome and unique right now.
Well the creator of "The Boys" despises superheroes, whereas the creator of "Invincible" loves them. It's an interesting dichotomy.
@@Iliadic This is only true to The Boys when it comes to its source material. Garth Ennis is a violently opinionated guy.
The show creator more like hates the justice system and corporate America but quite honestly embraces the superhero genre when it can, just treats the satirized superheroes as vehicles for real world points to make lol. It absolutely still has heroes that want to fight for the better good tho. It's not a total deconstruction nor a message of genuine hate towards DC/Marvel properties. That would be a surface-level observation.
fair enough. Sometimes I feel like in The Boys, the show at least, it's like, almost having nudity/gore for the sake of it and not to move the story along. It gets annoying.@@snowpoler
@@Iliadic Yeah I see your point too. (And sorry in advance for like the following novel lol, I guess I had a lot to add on but don't feel obligated to read it all)
It mostly gets side-tracked with The Deep, I'd say. And season 3 definitely had the most of these moments.
But at the same time when you think about it, season 3 was also the season most focused/heavy-handed on the wrong and the debauchery in showbiz and politics, then what it means to escape that.
Invincible doesn't really tackle hedonism that way because it doesn't need to. It's got other themes in its radar and that's fine for both shows.
So obviously there's deviations but I still think most gore-fests in seasons 1 and 2 and let's say quite a bunch in season 3 were either adding to a point, to a character or playing a good part to the plot.
Like if you were to censor a lot of those you would still either not understand how they got from A to B, or it would kinda take away from the specific danger of the situation.
As for the nudity, sure it could go without it at times but it being male nudity for most of the time also plays into the signature social commentary aspect of the show. Plus Hughie and Homelander's nudity for example, in s3 (teleporting but losing his clothes everytime; only time when he's out of his padded uniform), may come as shocking to some extent but they are moments that are very telling for the character generally.
But uh yeah it's still actually the The Boys comics that do the senseless violence and sex stuff more in comparison.
I would personally not reccomend them to anyone lol, not only are the characters one dimensional but there's some pretty upsetting depictions of SA as well. The show treats the topic of SA pretty seriously and doesn't have violent and unnecessarily graphic showcases of it.
There's also genuine proof to the fact that Garth Ennis simply hates classic superheroes. Eric Kripke makes a lot of superhero-like characters in this to be antagonists too, but it's definitely not a hate letter to superheroes in general.
Why does Ennis despise classic heroes? By which I assume you mean the likes of Superman, Captain America, Batman, and Spider-Man, yes?@@snowpoler
When gore is used in the show it’s always to elevate the consequences of a fight and I don’t think many people became desensitized because overall it’s still used sparingly
I think it’s great how your discussing Invincible. Your explanations on Moral Ambiguity really highlight what makes both of these variations of the story so good. Another excellent video. Can’t wait to see more.
You are 100% wrong on the gore. The gore is a constant reminder that none of this violence is cool or fun but destructive and chaotic. It fills you with a perpetual empathy that, by the time you get to the last episode, helps you feel even more pity for Mark as he's all that's standing between that gore and all humanity and makes it even more powerful when what actually saves earth isn't Mark's Vultrimite strength, but his human compassion.
Till this day I’m shocked at how popular the show became, having read the comic years ago in highs school
I don't think the violence gets watered down throught the show. It's more like it ups the stakes, as it shows you that these superpowered individuals are just as killable in the first episode.
Also, when you can tell the actual amount of collateral in a superhero story, it amounts to something.
I usually skip sponsor segments but man, watching someone be this excited about something, I just had to watch through it.
I think Invincible is an amazing adaptation. Loving it so much, I went back to reread the whole run. It's amazing how quickly the stuff happens in the books when you don't have to wait for the next one to come out!
Yea I binged the comics just after finishing season one as well and though I now know the entire story for the show, I can’t wait to see the changes kirkman makes to better fit a potentially smaller sample size in syndicated television
I appreciate the grotesque violence, especially the fight between Mark and Omniman. It showed what the actual collateral damage would be like during the fight between Superman and Zodd in Man of Steel
I never once looked at the gore and thought "eh, this is just here for show"
if anything it was a display of the weight every action carried, the train scene wasn't just upping the ante. that entire fight was Omni man showing mark, look How fragile and pointless all these people are, trying to save them is fruitless.
this is also shown when Mark tries to hold up that building and save the mother and daughter, but is ultimately unable to save either of them. I'd say the better comparison between the show and the comics is pacing, the comics was less "just showing these guys in their normal lives and less super hero stuff" it was more the comic not wanting to linger on side plots and quickly getting to the climax, a lot of the comic was rushed and the show got the opportunity to take that time to go into those subplots to string them together more nicely
Amazon Prime doesn't have much so i was plesantly surprised with Invincible!
All seasons of the Office is not much?
@@hermannbarbato another office head
The Boys, Fleabag, The Terror, The Expanse, American Gods, Undone... Not as much as the 'flix but there are still some choice shows on there.
Upload, The Boys and Startup are the best things on there
12:09 Holy expletive, Omni-Man actually does say “Think, Mark! Think!!” in the comic.
I mean, the memes are still wrong because they show the scene/pose from the show, but that’s really funny.
The irony of that quote, "When you get one of your own you can tell me how to swing mine." HE DOES GET ONE OF HIS OWN AND IT IS ALSO REX'S. THEN HE SWINGS TOWARDS MONSTER GIRL ANYWAY THE PERSON HE TOLD HIM NOT TO SWING IT TOWARDS. That's some irony.....
And then, after Rex erm.... moves on in a sense... He goes and takes his name too!
"What do you guys think, was the show worse, or the comic better?"
Good ending question
I think s1 was better. One of those rare cases that the adaptation is batter. It's just more focused. The paising is is more fuelid. They also cut un necery story lines for more character development
@@yuvalgabay1023 i found the show to also be much better. Amber, Cecil, Donald, and William were ACTUAL CHARACTERS as opposed to nearly the entire 1st compendium, not to mention how much better atom eve, robot, and monster girl are
@@yuvalgabay1023 Nah, it was a trainwreck. Use of Battle Beast and just general inability of Mark to not bleed this season made me not care about Omni-man beatdown and characters become flatter or don't make sense (Amber). Contrast is not existand, which makes me feel bored because there's no status quo shift.
season 1 is better than the issues it's based on, but in no way will the show ever be better than anything after what season 1 is based on
Comic all day everyday. LOATHED Debbie in the show.
Something rubs me the wrong way about getting monthly “curated goods” you never meant to buy shipped to your house.
Feed your gluttonous maw, whether you hunger or not. Consumption is not your choice. It is the prerogative of the corporation. They decide what enters you and your life.
@@PopeGoliath Yo why is that line so raw
I think the seriousness of the superheroes in the show actually helped all the added gore that was on screen because it all felt like it had more impact in the long and short term. Every episode I watched was filled with a healthy bit of anxiety about what was about to happen next to the heroes or the citizens because it seemed like no one is ever safe in this show.
red life juice is now a term i'm forever going to use.
When you got to the part about the Terra knife opening a cold one, that would have been the perfect time to cut to Nolan flicking off the beer cap to threaten Art.
The comic catches up with the gore later on. The level of gore with the first series is on par with the battles later on.
No, the comic has far more gore, the show is just establishing what the comic will get to eventually early on
The comic has lots of blood. But gory moments, in which entrails and such are showed in very specific detail? Those are reserved to very specific moments of the story, in which a major plot point happens.
the comic was nowhere near this gory early on it's not til Ottley started drawing the book where it was real messed up
@@mikemorro140 ottley started at like issue seven, it didn't get super bloody till a lot after that, I think was just to match the tone, it just kept getting darker
@@JohnnyElRed yeah, thats was quite the conquest
The comics are insanely violent and bloody as they get deeper into the story
What really ruined the impact of the violence in the show was how little the characters reacted to it when not being inflicted on themselves or people they cared about. The only time Invincible freaks out about civilians being hurt or killed is when he's in physical contact with them while they're alive. All those people in the alien invasion earlier (even the ones whose innards he gets covered with) don't seem to have any importance to him at all. Just the lady he tries to rescue and ends of injuring in the process. That's what really made the latter scenes fall flat for me. He'd already seen the kinda damage these fights could do but for some reason only cared about it when it was related to his dad.
6:56 Just now realizing that they showed Kregg and Conquest. Pretty cool.
I'm super sensitive to gratuitous violence, but I loved how it was used in Invincible. I completely disagree with your guys' take on it. I think that while it is gratuitous, it's always to show how horrific the violence itself is. I don't think the consistency of the violence is a weakness, I think it's a strength.
In the last episode of the 1st season, there was an exorbitant amount of gore, though, it never got old or less difficult to watch. Particularly, for me, the scene where the little girl and her mother were being saved from the falling building. I watched it a few times to try and process it and had to actually stop watching the show for a bit to recollect myself. I was in actual tears watching that scene and the following scenes wore me down.
Best superhero show in a while.
Up there with the boys for me
Invincible >>>>>>>>>>> The Boys
@@Kakaragi and Daredevil trumps all.
@@shadowstrike234 nop,not even close
@@kamen6009 ah fair enough
Don't joke about the subway scene. I'm still not okay after that.
I think that ultraviolence works great in the show, it made me physically uncomfortable, and made me ask a lot of questions, invoking the feelings of powerlessness and insignificance. However, I think a teenage boy would definitely suffer from PTSD after witnessing so many gruesome deaths, and the show kinda glossed over that, which is a shame.
when i was watching, the gore never got better. seeing that much detail added a realism of the pure hurt all the characters were going through. it also helps to know that mark will recover eventually but knowing he still feels that pain.
I think I disagree the abundance of violence desensitizes you. I think the abundance of violence adds some extreme contrast to when Atom Eve chooses to go off by herself to help people. She chooses to help people without violence. Whereas before this point it seems the only way to help people was to punch bad guys.
Now sure, non-violence isn't always the option, but I still think it's something to think about.
That's why she is my favourite character. And it's Atom Eve :-)
One thing I think the comic does better is let time pass between events. Like you said, the show rearranges events so they all communicate the same theme, however in real life that's not the case. People experience different things at different points in their life. For example the Lizard League was a joke for the first half of the comic until all the super powerful heroes were away, seeing the mid-tier heroes try to beat the Lizard League recontextualizes them and makes them way more menacing, but also just shows you how much more people the Guardians and Viltrumites are.
Man, this is the earliest I've ever been
Same
I showed at 3 minutes. Like wtf
The gore and the seriousness is what makes this great. It’s so brutal all the deaths are just wtf whoa
This show has been the best viewing experience I had, maybe, since the haunting of hill house. Yes the gore is insane, but it's a reminder of the power scale within this universe. It is visceral and even more impactful for the psychological development of the characters. I loved the série and hope for a good season 2 someday :D
Cheer guys!
What sets Invincible apart from other superhero deconstructions for me is the lack of cynicism. The violence and mass murder can be gruesome, and as an NYC native the last episode was just difficult to watch, but unlike The Boys and Watchmen, there's always heart, hope, and love.
The scene of the Guardians saving survivors after the battle in Chicago was a perfect palette cleanser. Where Omniman says "people are fragile and worth nothing" the show itself says "people are fragile and therefore worth protecting". It keeps me invested, and I hope Invincible never loses that.
Invincible's show writers have done a great job adapting the comic for television, I hope they stick to it and don't tone it down for the season 2 like some Japanese anime do by changing the blood to white after some criticism.
More like everyone becomes Amber and Mark power progression from punching bag to hero will not make sense.
This is actually a really big fear of mine. Season one was done so well I just hope there's consistency in the quality of the show going forward while still maintaining what made season one so gripping
Bro have you ever watched an anime? Some of the goriest shit ever made comes from anime.
11:20 in the comics the reason for them invading in the middle nowhere was supposedly less resistance (which there was). The invasion of London later on in the series was for personal reasons for destruction.
Now I'm really going to be afraid when that Anissa scene comes.
@@SquishyProductions considering the dude is taking the chance to create a more fleshed out version of the original story it might be kept but just handled more maturely beyond just shock value.
@@PaintedHoundie I'm pretty sure they handled that scene pretty maturely in the comics, especially the aftermath and how it affected Mark.
Robert kirkman's writing is so good. I'm glad this show does it justice.... Unlike a certain AMC show that rhymes with Walking Dead
Think, Wisecrack, Think!
Idk. Even with all the blood, guts, and things being super violent in every fight, that brutal beat down Nolan gave Mark was a moment that came in full force.
No desensitization at all when it came to that.
I’m currently reading DUNE and I am absolutely loving it! The new film is set to release this year and I would love to see DUNE given the book vs. film treatment!
Well, that's gonna be a no one me for desensitization. Every single time I was horrified at the gore. But every time I told myself, "yeah, that's actually what would happen, tons of people get killed with superheroes smash buildings." As for rearranging narrative and changing the narrative tone, I liked those changes and I think they were wise.
Love them both, and I was really happy when the show did it justice and made the story known to more people.
I don't understand why you keep saying that Omniman's betrayal is much later in the comic books, though. I remember it being on the first volume (I have an italian copy though so it may be the first two volumes)
It's in issue 7 and finishes the first volume in North America too
I think they might've been saying the killing of the Guardians was later cause in the comic it was a couple issues in while it was the first episode of the show
I thought about that desensitization when I remembered Conquest or Thragg, like how is the show gonna convey just how brutal they are in comparison to Omni-Man
The comic gets extremely brutal just read a bit further and you’ll be blown away
Cecil and Ironman would love each other! Cecil sent 2 jets knowing there was a high chance they could die but also a chance that the kid who grew up with his father for 17 years and has the same powers as him might be able to “think of something”. Did you notice that the woman and child Mark was trying to save he could have saved one maybe if he let one go if he let go of the building he could have used super speed to shield the woman’s body or vice versa! But he couldn’t make that choice!
I would've saved that reveal for the end of the first season.
Book VS Film idea : Jurassic park, both amazing pieces of art. Though I am not a reference in philosophy, I am pretty sure it would be pretty good material for an episode.
That opening episode scene I was not ready for at all. The tone of the show shifted so hard in that moment that I actually got sick to my stomach.
I think the violence throughout the show is shown in a semi-realistic way that doesn't desensitize you but rather serves as a reminder of the stakes at play.
I wouldn't say the violence is overdone. Some fight scenes don't feature any gore, and some only feature gore at select parts. Additionally, there are plenty of conflict that arises in normal situations, and there are moments completely wholesome. The show keeps a balance throughout
It's about time
Whenever I watched the show I was always on edge, worrying about everyone that was on screen and whenever Omniman walking around. The final fight reminds me of how easy it is for people to die, that no matter what people will die. Media really doesn’t acknowledge it
Restrained use of gore in the comics?! Have you read the battle with Conquest and Vultrimite War?!
Mark starts massive belly laugh but realises his belly is all over the floor...
Something I wanna see more of is the story recognizing how utterly devastating a superhero fight can be. After all, for those who has read the series, Earth is in for a lot, I mean A LOT, of world ending, globally cataclysmic shit storm. Two hints: dinosaurs, and Marks.
Loved this show. It did a great job of entertaining!
I feel like the gore is never excessive really, or that it’s used in a way that desensitizes the audience. At least not yet. Invincible feels very careful with what kind of gore it shows. Every impact breaks the right bones, every cut spills whatever was actually supposed to be behind it, every punch feels like it does exactly as much damage at it was supposed to. I think this compliments the theme of moral ambiguity because it shows the proper repercussions for the amount of damage a superhero can do. For them to wield that much power not just encourages but requires them to consider all the squishy people. The gore of the Klaxon invasion feels like what it would be if an army suddenly showed up in a city and just opened fire. If anything it’s toned down for that. Whenever people in the show, super or not, are majorly injured they spend a significant amount of time in recovery. My favorite example is the boyfriend who gets turned into a cyborg. His movements and all the sound effects sound what you would expect from a human who’s had so much of their body horribly disfigured and replaced. They take care with the gore rather then just dumping buckets of it on screen because they want us to think about each impact and what it means. Which in my opinion helps make the fights more tense
I personally prefer the tone of the comic.
The tone in the comic and the show are exactly the same
THANK YOU!!
The violence in the finale just amped up my hate for omni-man second by second. I appreciate that the show is willing to show us the violence because it gives everything stakes.
I loved the comic, a few hard hitting feeling moments here and there, and the show tries to respect that, but gives old and new viewers/reader something new every episode ( I really really dont like Amber though ")
Add Debbie to that train ride. If I hadn't read the comic I would probably like the show, as it is right now it's pretty much a hate watch for me, sigh I know, I'm not being forced to watch it but masochism is a thing sadly.
It was kind of fantastic they managed to make Omniman seem almost morally superior to most of the people in control.
It kind of highlights you can be a largely morally right person can still be evil and worthy of opposition.
It makes it even more important : the corruption of the good.
I DO miss the lightheartedness of the Invincible comics, something was lost when the show hit everything with the drama stick. Invincible was a great contrast to the edgy superhero media being produced at the time. Now it's another frequently violent and downer piece of superhero media among a legion of em. Still a good story, but a changed story, and it's role among its peers is changed. Love both thankfully
Invincible isn't necessarily edgy, it's not just dark and cynical (the boys). It has light-hearted moments and intense moments
The show is perfect.
I find myself at the edge of my seat every episode.
Another "the show ain't gorier than the comic" comment: Laughs in Invincible War and Conquest
i was just thinking about this. in fact, conquest vs Invincible 1, the Invincible war, conquest vs Invincible 2, Amber's leg and battle beast vs thragg will all completely nullify this video
@@zzeroara9511 You're right. Just Battle Beast and Thragg is gonna break all kinds of records
My biggest takeaway is a new phrase: “squishy consistency”, or as I’ve called it, “squishistency”
a couple more moments with Nolan being a good dad and husband would have gone a long way
If you had any idea what Nolan truly gave up for them Scarlet witch would be behind bars
@@JennySparkz please elaborate on this a bit
@@JennySparkz please elaborate on this a bit
I think the two groups of creators' visions were two separate ideas. Sure, you could compare them. But I truly believe the intended take-aways are undeniably separate. One tries to throw a teenage boy into a reality where he's just *mostly* used to it all until his psycho father stirs the pot (comics); while the other intends to show the very grim reality of true larger-than-life threats - especially on a mind of which both idolized the ideals of the lifestyle and believes in the importance of human life (animation). I, personally, related to the animation a bit more. But I can see how the comics were equally important in the development of both this series, and how those reading it understood the wider scope of the genre as a whole.
Bespoke post is just the saddest thing I've seen in a while.
Why?
The art style is so clean and sanitized that when someone gets turned inside out it won't ever not be effective especially when it's not every 5 seconds, they treat it with weight and don't shy away from the horror and shock of what's happening
Summary of what i understood :
They used violence but then used it a lot more in important violent moments
The comic is just as gory as the show tho
Oh MUCH more Imo