HOI4 Differences Between Land Doctrines (Beginners guide to Hearts of iron 4 Army doctrines)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Ive made a Video guide on how the different land doctrines work which show you how to play hearts of iron. People may think im kinda crazy for recommending the usa to go Grand Battleplan and germany to get superior firepower in hoi4 but after this video you may understand why. But what does each doctrines actually do? In this tutorial about the four Land Doctrines, you will never wonder about what tree gives me the best bonus ever again.
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"Mobile warfrare is only for when you have more than 30% armored divisions"
*laughs in fully armored/mechanized army*
Not this again 😢
I had a mp hungary game where germany gave me the task of only pumping god tank divs. I had 10 god heavy tanks (%100) of my army. I had 28/28 of my mils on heavys. I made them constantly lend lease me motorized ;)
>superior fire power germany
"You see these 24 light tank divisons?"
Yea?
"And these 12 medium tank divisions?"
yea...
"Straight into the trash!"
😂
Harsh, but so true
Ikr! When I play Germany, I focus mostly on the armor.
That’s what I think Germany is for, because if you want to blitz Europe, than I doubt foot infantry would do the job quickly enough, and motorized infantry wouldn’t have enough hard attack.
So I disagree that Superior Fire Power is right for Germany’s play style. It’s more for if the Soviet Union or Italy was on the offensive.
Just my opinion, I’m open to any opposing arguments. Thank you
2nd Reich Germany in a nutshell
Against the AI, which barely uses armor, the +20% soft attack from Superior will destroy anything any other tree gives you
that tank scene at 7:08 was from red orchestra 2 not from cod waw
srry i meant to have a cod waw clip but it just seemed dumb. so i added ro2
Erwin you genus
Best world war 2 fps
I too noticed this
Dustinl796 Videos should have just cut it all together then because that was kinda dumb
Mobile Warfare: Attack
Grand Battleplan: Defense
Superior Firepower: Balanced
Mass Assault: Memes
Memes
Grand battleplan is better for attack as it gives large bonuses to infantry breakthrough
+Ted Archer True, but you then slow down because the bonus is gone, so you need to utilize the momentum as well as possible, stop, replan, attack, repeat. With other doctrines you can just keep going without planning, thus you may have less power at the start of the attack, but you can keep going.
@@Theo-vn9hm yeah, you have to think.more with it. But sometimes it's a good thing. Although I always prefer SP
not memes, MEMEEEEES! REEEEEEEEEE
You didn't really give Deep battle much credit, but it surely deserves it. It lowers your supply not by 5%, not by 10%, but a whoping 20%! With logistics wizard on you FM it is almost given that you'll never be in short supply situation, and for countries like USSR or China, that have tons of divs, but their infrastructure is subpar this one is godsend.
Lotta good points
A max of 80% lower supplies, along with a -50 lower supplies penalty plus grace period- sounds like heresy.
yes, especially with these 25 Infantry 40 width divisions it's helpful (with Support AT and Support Art they are pretty much unbreakable in the defense, even very good 40 width tank divisions struggle)
Germany.....superior firepower......
HERESY!!!
Try it before you buy it. i made a rhyme 😊
Well if the added Schwerer Gustav ^^
Unless I'm memeing, I always go for superior firepower with every nation *except* Germany
Sometimes when going up against a really good soviet in mp i go heavy into tanks and get blitzkreig under mobile warfare 😁
Oof
Do you know why it's better with mobile warfare? Cause if you break through with your tanks all the time, you gonna keep taking ground from your enemy and he can't stop you, it is actually pointless to make gains over your entire front if you can surround your enemy and pocket him with your tanks and then let your infantry sweep up the rest, that's the entire idea behind mobile warfare, take the initiative and dictate the tempo of the war, keep puncture the frontline and force the enemy to move he's troops and break his entrenchment, cause when the troops are shifting you can surround them or get the upper hand engaging them when you have the advantage, you do not need 20-30% of your entire army as mechnized/motorised for this to work, a few elite panzer divisons who puncture the defense line and the infantry fill in the gaps and then you move your tanks to another part of the front. :)
The problem is that mostly tanks aren't cheap. If the enemy has the power to counter attack he should be able to encircle your panzer divisions. It's fine if you're playing against bots, but not in multiplayer. I like the idea of fast divisions, but more soft attack means that you will have the power to encircle your enemy forces. If you have enough force to encircle other player army you should already win the war and you're just wasting time.
Well then you have to be on your toes and encircle his encirclements! ;) But for real though, you do not need to go "bananas" with 50.000 tanks, you need maybe 10-15 divisions with top of the line Panzers, like Panthers or Panzer 4 (upgraded ofc). The idea behind mobile warfare is that the infantry will hold the enemy's army in place and the tanks will smash trough the lines and start the encirclements and the infantry will fill in the gaps and hold the line again. And you keep doing that, cause you can never match Soviets production or manpower, that's why you need to specialize in one type of unit as Germany and put the infantry on "support" duty, so your tanks will take care of the offensive for you and the rest will just "control" the chess board by making your opponent grind his equipment away. And hope that you reach Moscow before winter :P
murloc is right. i cant tell you how many times as usa in mp games ive seen germany pop out amazing tank divisions but can only get 10-15 out before ww2. and they to push have to concentrate most of them in a area to breakthrough but if i send tanks against his infantry the tanks are cut off and destroyed pretty much making the doctrine worthless.
Well that's because the player havn't produced good enough infantry units, cause if the infantry can't hold it's ground.. Well then it's like you are saying, the tanks will get encircled and killed. I don't know what kinda combat witdh you usually use? Cause i usually keep it simple and use 40 width so they don't get overrun. How do you usually do it?
It's just a different tactics, i like the superior fire doctrine if you are playing a smaller country that need to be a bit reserved with it's manpower. :)
1:17 Superior Firepower
6:57 Mobile Warfare
10:58 Grand Battleplan
13:56 Mass Assault
noo! my watchtime!
"Gotta love COD:WaW"
"Actually shows gameplay of red orchestra 2 like a boss"
yea i kinda didnt have any waw content pre recorded ;)
Thanks, this is how tutorials should be. Usually people just go "This doctrine gives you +10 organization which is amazing because your divisions can blablabala..." Well yeah, I can read, thank you very much. -.-'
thank you :)
In mobile warfare the biggest draw of blitzkrieg and modern blitzkrieg is ENORMOUS amount of breakthrough given to your tanks. Breakthrough negates the defense some enemy units have which allows you to deal full soft/hard attack have which in turn means that these 600 def division can be destroyed faster. Mobile infantry on the other hand gives you 10% speed bonus to mot and mech, which allows them to keep up with 1936 and 1941 light tanks, so if you want super fast armoured divisions that's your path. Backhand blow isn't great on paper but it counters breakthrough which is very good, so that's something to consider. Defensively the tree is all about having lots of org, and that's something to consider.
For superior firepower there's one detail - airland battle is generally better for tank-heavy force, especially if you're focusing on heavy tanks(they will get 30% soft and 20% hard attack boost, massive). Therefore taking dispersed firepower and airland is pointless(as disp. will focus on inf divisions with lots of artillery so yeah). Also practically every nation in the game works with these doctrines.
GBP you've got kinda wrong. The tree itself is fairly balanced between offense and defense in the beginning - first tier is purely defensive, 2nd is purely offensive, 3rd is mostly defensive and 4th is mostly offensive. To sum assault vs. infiltration - assault is annoying as fuck to play(you have to give your untis time to get planning bonus every now and then), but better. Gives breakthrough to all units instead of just infantry, enables it as a tactic(as opposed to breakthrough but worse - infiltration assault). Infiltration has some unique advantages though - number one being supply consumption bonus, which makes it much better suited to asia or africa, number two being night penalty reduction which iirc gives you an average of 7-9% soft/hard attack bonus in longer battles. Recon bonus is underrated but also great(you'll counter enemy tactic more often). So it is for these countries in Asia that want to fight offensively but can't spare resources for their army to fight offensively with other doctrines. Wouldn't pick it as France or Russia or something though.
Mass assault is the most defensive doctrine of them all, especially with mass mobilization. The deep battle branch however is kinda restricted to the few countries that can afford both large industry and spending lots of manpower, so practically only the US and USSR. It gives more bonuses for the USSR though, especially due to massive supply reduction bonus which allows them to survive having mass armies in terrain with poor inf. Mass mobilization outside of defensiveness gives some interesting abilities, like the out of supply penalty reduction which can theoretically lend itself to airborne or amphibious assaults in places where you are unlikely to get resupplied and thus dragging the enemy from the frontlines to play peek-a-boo with them.
You do realize Breakthrough doesn't do damage right?
If it beats defense(iirc it has to be higher) then the enemy gets full damage from attacks, as such you may say it does, or at least against dug-in defenders.
Breakthrough protects against attacks while on the attack. You can sustain your attack for a longer time before taking heavy damage. High organisation also helps in sustaining the attack.
one thing about mobile warfare with mobile infantry path:
If germany selects its the company that gives +5% speed, and takes Guderian as advisor (+10% speed) and uses a bit of Land xp on speed for medium tanks - than it is able to get 16 km/h tank divs with tha panzer 4 this can really be devestating given the fact that germany gets a lot of tank research boni which means they can easily have a panzer 4 production roling before the war starts.
I have tried this one in mp (the divisions started with l.sp art II, med tanks II, and mot inf, as well as engineers and recon (other support as well but that is irrelevant). Those were so fast, as soon as they broke a line they would overrun enemy infantry without the need to encircle , cause they'd reach the next province before the retreating infantry would. This can be quite a nasty suprise for an enemy.
While this division isnt the most powerful by stats - the speed allows for massive enemy loses if the enemy does not prepare for it.
I personally like going down shock and awe 80% of the time
same
Some people are just way too lucky
Yeah, but what countries do you play? Best choices depend on your situation and country.
@StahlBlitz My wife plays with my xxxx when i play a game. At first it sounds awesome, but later its like, "this is really distracting from my game."
Before you guys say these kind of things maybe you should check out "her" Channel page
Superior Firepower makes sense if you go full Kaiserreich and spam those sweet, sweet Krupp guns.
Mobile Warfare is for tank rushing the capital or isolating parts of the frontline with fast elite divisions.
It's just to ask the question: Do I want to encircle the Red Army or kill every last man in Russia?
I fully disagree with the Mobile Warfare discussion.
The main Bonus you get from it is 60% more breakthrough for your tanks.
Wich.. combined with armor.. IS HUUUGE when it comes to soaking up enemy ORG.
+You said, that Superior Firepower is better for tanks then MW.
If you go for desperate Defense and Mobile Infantry, I fully agree.
But that is only to the fact, that you are not choosing the good bonusses that Mobile warfare has to offer.
You will only get 1/3 of the potential for your tanks.
Yeah but you have to look at bang for your buck if you're one of those people to build a lot of tank divisions is Germany than it would work for you. However of my 4000 hours in the game now and it least half has been in multiplayer only one time did I ever see Germany ever construct more than 15 tank divisions. The mentality behind a lot of people as Germany AR build 15 or even 10 really good tank divisions to break through everything in the rest is just infantry. If you do this once the tanks get encircled and cut off if someone has better tanks than you or better Auntie tank division the doctrine is almost absolutely worthless since you don't have any tanks left to make a difference. I would think a bonus for your infantry what you're the backbone of your army would be a little bit more important. Now if you are in Germany that uses mobile Warfare correctly and build a lot of tank divisions with your Army in the by all means you should do it
Yeah always go right side for mobile, it's fun when you have uber tank divs with 2k breakthrough and push through 10 soviet infantry division with a single tank division. Soft attack is irrelevant on tanks because it's all about making breakthroughs for encirclements and mobile warfare is way better for this, superior firepower if you want to slowly grind away the enemy divisions and don't want to micro.
60 % more breackthough has zero impact in most cases. Do you know how breackthorouh? (its not how fast you can breackthrough)
breakthrough is defense when attacking, lets say you have a tank div with 800 breakthrough and you're attacking 4x division with 400 attack each = you take 800 damage = your tank deorgs fast. Now if you have a tank with 1600 breakthrough and you attack 4x division with 400 attack each = you take almost no damage = you push through easy.
You attack with a singe tank divivison into 4 infrantry divisions? What do you try to acomplish with that?
*[plays as France]*
*[picks GBP doctrine]*
*[still miserably fails]*
Literally being France in a nutshell.
But seriously though, you finally did it - you explained a difference between doctrines.
I bet Naval and Air ones go next.
Yeah
Yeah little Entente was nice. I was able to take moseland and Rhineland from Germany before they finally got enough units on my border. Took them awhile to crush the other members and eventually wore them down enough to win. I went with pretty garbage 20 width divisions in the hopes that I could get enough to just hold them back. Turned out that if I had planned for attack the war would've probably been over as fast you mention 4-5 months.
It all really depends if you have all 3 members in alliance aside from you. In my Big Entente run Czechs were useless and crumbled in a week or two. Yugo was holding nicely, but at some point they had to fall as well. Civil war that broke out didn't really help them as well. Romania though was holding off like a champ and were holding quite a number of Germans on their side. With a number of mobile divisions with tanks I managed to breakthrough German lines and bit by bit take their cities. After that it was really easy. Take out Italy, prepare for war with Japan, they declare on Phillippines, invite USA to Entente the same day, win the game.
if you want to beat german AI easy as France go mass assault, build only 10 width infantry with no support companies and put all extra production on fighter+cas, after mid 38 or so build up your forts to lvl 5 then take fort focus = beat germany with barely any losses.
Fool france after you learn what to do is easy, I can beat the germans easily without denying the rhine and sudetant land, idk why so many people have a hard time with france.
Unless spain joins the axis, you are completely fucked if that happens
He sounds pretty honest and one with his inner-self. Loved listening and learning from him !
You make the best tutorial videos I have ever seen for Hoi4
Thank you for making this lovely video. Don't mind all the people depositing their 2 cents or saying you got things wrong; in the end we watch it to get someone elses' viewpoint to spark new ideas in ourselves, not to copy-paste the ideas. Happy 2019!
The way I like to see it is that there is 2 indipendant rivalries between surpirior and grand battleplanning, then blitz and mass mob. They both have stats that directly chlange one another. But to sum up the best benefits of each tree and what start you use.
Blitzkreig: 60% breakthrough and tons of org+ recovery. Used to make your tanks take no dmg and outlast enemies who go surpirior firepower.
Is a direct rival to mass mob which does the same but empowers infantry over tanks.
Surpirior firepower: pure damage and a little org to back it up. Its like arty in game. They give massive buffs to soft attack but greatly lower org which almost puts you on the same playing field. Good for small scale fighting because if used on a massive scale, the moment you de org; the other doctrines org recovery and breakthrough advantage makes counter attacks decisive.
Trench warfare: mesh the best parts of the others and gives it to the worst battalions. The most I can say is that it empowers micro over macro since the recon makes high power generals twice as powerful by maximising counter tactics.
Mass mob.: infantry spam at its finest. Give it at 2 at 1939 and hide Beni d a river while spamming 2 widths with 3 extra infantry battalions and watch the enemy grind. Its all about the counter attack to win.
Your videos are great because you explain stuff without boring me to death with stats and numbers and shit, just the basic theory. Keep up the great content!
Mass Assault: UUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! *The Unbreakable Union of Freeborn Republics plays in the background*
da
I really love your videos. Hearts of Iron 4 is such a really complex game that I would love to learn to play and you make it all sound really simple. You said in this video you sometimes stumble over the words. In a way that helps me think a bit in that time what you said the two to five seconds before you stumble. Also the stumbling is kind of endearing and makes you more real because we all have our insecurities and it's incredibly brave to make these videos for the world to see.
Or as Michael Caine put it in "Batman begins":
"Why do we stumble, Young Master Wayne? So we can get up again"
Heres a thing with mobile vs superior firepower doctrines. SF gives hige bonus to inf true, so if your planning on building army made of only 20/40 width infantry divisions then SF is the way to go. But as you said if you have lots of tanks divs Mobile doctrine is WAY better. IMO infantry should not attack if possible, only defend your frontline. Tanks are for attacking and encirclements and since mobile doctrine gives massive bonus to tanks you can blitz poland,france and UK with about 30k losses and USSR with only 100k (I didnt wait for them to waste their army on trying to breakthrow my lines for few months but I instantly sended my tanks and encircled 2m soviets in first month of the war)
I find mobile warfare better than "superior firepower" in mods like "Old World Blues", or as some countries in "Equestria at War"
The first sentence made me fall to the floor and scream in horror.
In seriousness you made very good points.
Attempt the endsieg mod in 1944 start
that does sound interesting
*as France*
Dustinl796 Videos *AS THE SOVIET UNION*
Why 1944 and not 1945?
Because 1945 is practically impossible and require hours of trying and failing and he could spend that time making other videos
I almost skipped this video. Glad I didn't. It really makes you think about looking deeper into the Land Doctrine Trees (which I wasn't doing.) Also, I can see that the labels for the Doctrine Branches don't always describe what I'm looking at. Thanks again Dustin. Pretty soon you'll have me completely up to speed with HOI4 if I'm not there already. :-)
thanks but nobody will ever be up to speed with hoi4, i still learn new stuff every once and a while :)
Mass Assault. 29% reinforce rate. 48 Motorized Divisions with 12 km/h speed overrunning enemy divisions. Just think about it ;)
I believe mobile warfare is the most efficient for infantry Division organisation. An infantry Division with full 5 support companies and a 9/3 formation (going off of historical formations) would have about 20-30 org. On superior firepower, the support company org from integrated support will push it to 30-40, but the arty gains no bonus. But mobile warfare can keep the infantry Division at a healthy 40-50 surprisingly, for an armoured doctrine, just by infantry org alone. It makes sense, since infantry is the most numerous battalion in a standard division.
Germany realised in 43 That they should have focused on artillery instead of tanks
You didn't explain how the USA could use mass assault... So could you please explain that to me, I am quite interested!
srry. i cut it out trying to shorten the video. with usa players we like 40 width divisions but normally can only get around 100 of them, so mass assault gets 5% more pop so you can make another 100 40 widths and because you get infantry width reduction 50 widths which makes a fully equiped usa a powerhouse monster
@@dustinl796 ur really smart ty for this!!😊
Great video. Could you do a video like this with the air and navy doctrines?
hmm hadnt thought about it that much but i dont see why not ;)
My two cents on air and navy:
Air:
Strategic destruction: bomb the airports before we lose too many planes. Use this if you have lots of tactical and strategic bombers. Can potentially beat op int if you bomb airports fast enough.
Battlefield support: win the war before we lose too many aircraft. Best if you have lots of cas but weakest because leaves fighter weak.
Operational integrity: best doctrine overall because you can simply deny the air to the other two doctrines. Simply having air superiority is often enough to win wars.
Navy:
If you are allowed to stack carriers indefinitely then base strike is vastly superior to everything. Carriers can sink surface ships and subs. If the enemy can maintain air superiority over a sea zone you wouldn't have won with the other doctrines either. Either use base strike or don't waste the research. Even if you are only allowed 4 carriers it is still best.
Yea I'm kinda confused about the navy and air
The Navy is going to change a lot when MTG comes out. I would wait with that.
I thought I was the only one who does a good job of masking my deep southern accent until I hit certain words.
😁 Yall come back now you hear?
I think this analysis misunderstands what doctrines are.
Doctrines are meant to translate your resources and likely battlefield into the best plan for winning. If Japan could fight in high infrastructure terrain, MW would be superior. If it had the ability to produce tons of artillery and aircraft, SF might be best. But since it must fight in difficult terrain with limited infra, GBP or Mass Assault is best. Same for China, for example, though MBP allows it to emphasize its MP advantage.
The US likes SF because it needs to fight dynamic battles against enemies that are prepared, so it is not going to encircle its enemies so much as it is going to pound them into dust and walk over the dust. SF might be good for Germany, especially in MP where breakthroughs and encirclements are much less likely than in SP. But if you want to do the historical German method of decisive operations with encirclements and low casualties, nothing will work like MW.
It's not about making your tanks kill more stuff, hence it's not relevant what % of your army is armor. What matters is that the tanks you have are going to be the shock troops that break through the line and then have the ability to keep fighting on the run. For this, you MUST have those huge org and breakthrough bonuses.
Mass Assault is like SF but it's for countries which have more men than industry. You will not so much pound your enemy into dust as you will wear them down and demoralize them on a wide front, and thwart their attacks by clogging their path with cheap, high defense infantry.
The point is, "best doctrine" is about your resources and battlefield, not about picking an army comp and then getting big bonuses in general.
I took Mass Mobilization as Nationalist China on my playthrough to free up width for my 40w infantry so I could fit in a good mix of art+roc+aa artillery. The AA broke Japan's air superiority bonus and pierced through their shoddy light tanks, and the abundance of soft attack quickly had them running from the Manchurian border. Got the surrender event so fast, I could join the war in Africa and Russia, which probably saved the AI because Britain went the decolonization+Edward route, ensuring total collapse of stability. Even though attrition is tough in those regions, the reductions allowed even my 40w's to perform, while Germany just hemorhaged manpower and supply. Really fun doctrine, if you play as the limited few countries that can sustain it.
12:42 sneaky sneaky, jajajajajaj, I love u man !!
thx :)
GBP - assault is best if your playstyle involves building up planning bonusses.
agreed
I explained earlier why superior firepower is better for tank divisions as well as infantry divisions
yea ya did
Tbh, if we are talking MP minor nations should go for Mobile Warfare. Countries like Hungary, Ireland, Denmark, Norway and such. Countries like Germany, Italy and even Romania should have enough MP to secure coasts and fronts while their other buddies can focus on pure armor to help with breakthroughs.
Mass Assault isn't a meme doctrine.
Deep Battle
It's the strongest one if you want to attack enemy on very limited in supplies space. Mostly units are 10-15% weaker than other ones, but you can accumulate 30-40% more units than other doctrines on the same space. That mean you can overwhelm other doctrines in Africa, Asia, Italy ect whenever you can accumulate more units than enemy.
Mass Mobilization
You can't stack more units like Deep Battle, but you can make bigger infantry divisions with very high recovery rate and reinforce chance, that allow you to make very strong infantry wave in the terms of idea "Losses? Already replaced!".
After break of enemy position you have very high recovery, so you can keep pushing disorganized enemy units without long battles and high causalities.
Weak spot of that doctrine are higher requirements of equipment and numbers of divisions on the same frontline to keep the same space. On big front lines with high amount of supplies you will get disadvantage against other doctrines with higher quality units. For that reason better is to invite enemy army to the place with low supplies or limited space and then use quantity advantage to decrease his strength before final push.
Wish you did what you did with the air doctrines. Doing the total numbers for each doctrine for each bonus type really helped me.
You make some good points but I can't get behind picking mobile infantry over blitzkrieg. Yes the numbers are higher but motorized is pretty bad by itself your tanks are gonna be doing most of the work in your armored divisions. You only have your motorized to keep the org high which they already do well enough without mobile infantry buffs. Also even though you may only have a handful of armored divisions they require a significant amount of your production and are what really push the front line, if you want your tanks to beat everyone else's you need to do mobile warfare. Also Deep battle is straight trash mass mob all day
well little trick, use mobile infantry with rocket trucks in the divisions they then become infantry divisions on steroids
Dustinl796 Videos And costs like light tanks
+Michael Brown mobile infantry is not as bad as it may seem tbf. When I play with mobile infantry, I use infantry as the core of my army and combine it with sp. My goal is generally to use my superior organization to deplete theirs first and then keep pushing them back as long as I can both with infantry and with motorized.
this is the video i have been waiting for! Great job Dustin.
glad someone enjoyed it :)
I almost have 500 hours on this game but i'll watch in case i learn something new (which I always do with your videos)
did you learn something new with doctrines? :)
Yeah, but nobody, as Germany, has a 40 to 3 Division\Tanks ratio. Mobile Warfare is more challenging because of the things you point out, so yeah, you should be an experienced player to make good use of it, and in the end you could be better off by finishing the war before 1942 than extending it by using a more balanced doctrine.
So... My 100% motorized US armies should go Mobile Warfare, well I mean, I go for it by default when I go that anyway.
Nice guide tho!
other channals= STATS
this channal= WHERE TO USE THEM
definitly a diffrent aproch witch is nice to see.
Thanks 😁
Dustinl796 can you do a video on if its worth doing the other variation of tanks such as anti air and anti tank .
also a majority of your videos are about online strategy but could you maby do some off line stuff such as how the AI works?
FINALLY someone who agrees with me, Mass Charge is THE overpowered tactics of HoI4, seriously this tactics is absolutely insane. Guerilla Warfare is brutal too, once it pops out you're certain you can't lose a battle for at least 24h, it's insanely good.
It's great as long as you have tons and tons and tons of divisions
Well it's sort of depends, Recon companies and Signal companies don't change how often you deploy the correct or wrong tactics in battle however the tactics deployed if your General Uses them correctly then you can get some pretty good bonuses like extra deorganization of enemy troops and other things
@Felipe Correia Borges Some tactics are obviously useless like Attack, Ambush, and the like but some others are absolutely excellent. Mass Charge and Guerilla Warfare are the best, followed by Encirclement, Breakthrough and Overwhelming Fire.
Well when I tested it a long time ago with a basic General going from Level 1 Recon companies 2 level 4 Recon companies in 20 battles it was only about 2 battles that were successfully countered at first and then in the second run with maxed out level Recon companies only three were countered
The mobile infantry route gives 10 to infantry and 25 to motorized and mechanised
mp wise i love either mass mobe or superior firepower they are great all rounders and cover a lot of bases
I use to do mobile doc for ground army by grinding my gen till they get improve movement that makes my soldiers go Zooooom.
I like to add many rocket battalions to divisions because they change sprite and also makes the moaning rocket sound when fighting :) But that means I need to go above 20 width to perhaps 30, so I have enough defense too plus good soft attack, and eventually 40 later on. And then I go down that tree with intergrated support because I have some AAA and Arty as support companies. This usually works good for me.
*Goes down two Doctrines at the same time*
-laughs in FeedBackGaming
Goes down to Industry Technologies at the same time
-Laughs in getting banned from a hoi4 Discord game and server
@@dustinl796 Touché
😁
You're really cranking these out! Keep em coming!
that sounded very sexual -_- im calling the police
jk ;)
Mobile Warfare: For tanks and mot only army.
Superior Firepower: Mostly infantry with arty and such.
Grand Battleplan: D E F E N C E
Mass Assault: If we keep throwing people into the bullets, they'll eventually run out of bullets.
*shows Red Orchestra*
"Gotta love COD"
*AUTISTIC SCREECHING*
;)
Great vid, mate!
Thanks 😁
What game was that on 7:13 ? Red Orchestra?
yes
srry i meant to have a cod waw clip but it just seemed dumb. so i added ro2
You're helping me very well with understanding the game thank you very much
glad to help :)
I play Germany with mass firepower. 6 months at war with the USSR and then we take a casual stroll to Moscow. It chews up anything it gets up to but at turtle speed.
Infiltration are better than assault. So ironic :)
right? kinda crazy
You forgot china which is defending against japan so early
Very informative video once again Dustin. Well done 👌
thanks buddy ;)
In MP Sov vs Ger nobody attacks with infantry at all! Until there is a real need for it. All infantry divs are only used to form a front, and take the provinces. Both player only attack with tanks! Mostly heavy tanks.
So mobile warfare gives huge bonuses for tanks esp. Blitzkrieg. It's the best choice when you continuously use tanks divs.
Mass assault gives you much more divs at front. And of course more weapons to inf divs.
Well sometimes in mp people will make infantry dedicated arty divisions. I use them in 2nd priority zones like pushing through to cities and use my tanks to push victory points
I use 4-4 / 8-8 and mountain inf for push in difficult terrain, I have spec army for this. But most of time heavy tanks for pushes. In 42 it goes up to 20+ tank divs
I usually go for grand battleplan Infaltration, Gives extra org and planning, if im uaing armored cars, mot, mech,. Armored then iol go for assault
Do a video explaining how division stats work in battle (calculations modifiers , multipliers etc.)
thats gonna take quite a while but ill try :)
a question i have,Would all of them be somewhat good for the soviet union? cause its either on the defensive for awhile,pushing with lots and lots of infantry,has tons of divisions or has a good amount of tank divisions to support all the infantry.
Superior firepower is best in any case. Except if you have very little manpower
its more of a question of would choosing any of them as the soviet union work out well
@@findfloppies2450 if soviet player is much better than german, sure. Even no doctrine
Either deep battle or mobile warfare is best for Soviet. You are usually going to need strong counterattacks with tanks to counter German armor. You usually can't do a proper superior firepower build as you need a ton of troops so adding line artillery and tons of support companies to every division is really hard. The bonuses that mass assault and mobile warfare are kinda designed for a few good decisions to attack and a the infantry to hold the line.
well i like to think mass assault for 40 widths, superior firepower for hugely arty armies, grand battle for defensive and mobile warfare for largely moto and mech armies. so in a way yes and no
The dispersed support is better because who wants to buff 1 maybe 3 support companies when you can buff rockets/ arty/ and mobile rocket arty. Plus the dispersed support helps with actual front line arty support not some side soldiers. Will say that his idea might be proven better once the new update drops
You underestimate ORG in your evaluation of doctrines. ORG is the single most important stat in paradox games. It determines how long your troops will fight and practically serves as an army multiplier. If you get +30 ORG on your Infantry you actually x1,5 your army. Whereas increasing your army otherwise would cost equipment and strains your logistics. Even the logistic wizard is dwarfed by increasing ORG. You can easily get +33% troops with 4 LOG general + 2 LOG FM /w logistic wizard, but 1,5 ORG via mobile warfare seems more effective. (+ You can combine both).
+ 24 division limit - x1,5 ORG = 36 effective division fighting power per general! Staffer = 45 divisions!
Soft attack increases are not that useful, except for defence. Just take a 10% SA. Attacking into terrain makes it effectively something of a 4-7% bonus. Entrenching might make it a 13-15% bonus.
And because it’s all about ORG, its best to increase breakthrough as well. Mobile warfare = 60% breakthrough on tanks! Just 1 shitty 36 light tank is +57 breakthrough. Given that mobile warfare DOUBLES mot/mec ORG, that’s a pretty hefty bonus! You double your mot/mec infantry and give them reduced ORG loss.
In HOI3 this was even more pronounced! ORG was tied to officer ratio. Soviet Union started with something like 30% ORG = instant loss against GER. But if you raised it to 140% ORG Ger didn’t even make a dent in your frontline.
oh i agree org is important but with higher soft attack or high defense you can destroy enemy divisions by letting them run out of org attacking or defending if you balance it right
By not going over the numbers, you miss out on much of the importance of the doctrines. Just the first choice of Mobile Warfare alone is amazing. Making EVERY single division, be it tanks or leg infantry move 10% faster is extremely powerful and will allow you to get pockets like no tomorrow as long as you drop the game speed a bit and focus on battles and finding weak points in their lines
well each doctrine has different points but thats why i covered it like i did so that people wouldn't get confused with all the numbers and instead gave numbers on each doctrine and explained what they do
Excellent video. Thanks man
Thx 😁
Mobile doctrine is priceless when you are pushing through aggressively on enemy lines with 40 cw divisions because you don't let them recover their organization after they lost and retreat then become entrenched. Just push forwards and encircle the enemy and destroy. You can use light tanks and you don't even need to upgrade them to II or III so you can build more and their stats are unimportant. But if you are fighting in mountains or hills etc. this doctrine is kinda useless...
agreed
The thing that I usually do with germany now is rush 4y plan go down the indusyry line for the research slot, then go down the treaty with the soviets and then I have around 80-90 mils without converting at the begining of 1941 and by then im two months away from getting med 3s, and by the end of 1941 when I convert almost 40 factories, I can no problem chug out 20 med tank at a time, so I go down blitz and modern blitz and then just casualy encircle everything the soviets throw at me cuz I have some 60 tank divs
Something that I prefer to do now is don't go down 4-year plan until you have dispersed industry 2, that way when you get your industry technology instead of taking 50 days off of dispersed industry one or two you get 200 days off of dispersed industry 3 or four depending on if you do the same thing with construction technology or not
@@dustinl796 that is good two, I tried it after watching ur video about dispresed, it was ok but I had slightly better results because I usually set up my lines asap and know exatcly what I need for my templates plus not switching my lines up, all that ties up to my plan to rush out those tank divisions
Mobile Warfare is good for speed, fast planning, recruitment, and Guerrilla tactics. If you were to do an all tank template, it is somewhat viable. For Superior Firepower, this is what you get for liquidating infantry base armies, like China or India. Air land Battle is a beautiful duo if you went down the CAS tree. Grand battle plan is my favorite doctrine. It's amazing for hoarding that entrenchment bonus. Assault gives you more planning bonus. Technically Assault is the best path because it gives you the BEST stats in the game if you can get that high planning bonus. It is only good if the battle is static. Infiltration is more rounded. The recon bonus ensures your general will choose the best tactic, and the night attack bonus means that your army has the best stats at night. Mass assault is great for that sweet 5 percent recruitment, putting more infantry in a template, and lastly the gorilla tactics. The Guerrilla tactic is the BEST tactic for a defender, cause it cuts combat width in half and gives the attackers a -70 attack.
good points :)
Its not so easy. For instance, as Germany you need to annex some countries fast and you need better units fast. In mobile warfare you get tanks organization early and more, and in superior firepower you need tons of tungsten and industry and doing without tanks makes things hard. Infantry dies a lot and Germany can not have that as its manpower is low. In mobile warfare you need steel for light tanks and you are ready. You also have mobile warfare specialists which will be otherwise wasted. Be realistic.
I always thought it was dumb just from a historical standpoint that Germany's historical tree is mobile warfare and Britain's is grand battle plan. Even at the start of WWII the UK's army was one of the most motorised in the world whereas three quarters of Germany's equipment was horse drawn and they made something like a third of the military vehicles the British did. They relied on grand plans like the Schlieffen Plan 2.0 and Operation Barbarossa to win the war, so it would make way more sense for Britain and Germany's doctrines to be flipped. I needed somewhere to vent this I'm sorry, really informative video though well done
I completely agree with you. Blitzkrieg was the backbone in the German Army however be back on the German Army at the same time was pretty much those Panzer divisions that they got incredibly lucky with that the French were unprepared to fight and got completely overrun and encircled. I feel like there should be a couple tank bonuses in Grand battle plan in Germany start with that
@@dustinl796 yeah exactly, although there was actually no Blitzkrieg in France or Poland, the Germans used classic Prussian tactics they had always used and they had almost exactly the same strategy as WWI, the only difference is that they just integrated modern tanks and airpower very well. Hitler and the rest of the leaders in the Wehrmacht thought that the battle of France was going to be a repeat of the western front in WWI, no one actually expected a breakthrough
LoL I used mass assault with the cursed Spanish civil war cuz you know limited supply with some factories
In my Germany playthroughs mobile and superior work kind of equally well, you need to adjust a bit though. Superior takes heavy infantry with artillery, anti-tank or anti-air guns (depends on your enemy, though I consider AA pretty much shite) and even a SP artillery. And insane amounts of support divisions stacked on you different specialised infantry templates.
The good thing about Mob is you can use the rubber you get while not at war to make your factories spam out as many trucks as you can. Why? Trucks will never be outdated. If you have a couple of thousands until 1938, you can motorise nearly half of your army, especially the eastern front, giving you so much speed you can overrun the poles and maybe even some weak spots in the Soviet army without encircling them. If you’ve got enough trucks, switch your production to whatever the heck your resources allow. No trade, just light tanks, artillery, fighters, you name it, because remember, we mass produced trucks and supp.equip in peace time while stacking refineries on top of each other.
Actually a lot of good points :-)
Dustinl796 Videos actually i replayed this setup a couple of times. Mass producing trucks will cripple your civ count so that you are unable to build enough refineries to support the fuel for a 50% motorised/tank army. Germany’s largest problem isn’t oil or rubber if you play wisely (refineries and good navy, vassalixing Romania and fast gains into the caucasus). The main problem will be that bloody thing called special metal alloys. The longer the war lasts, the higher the chance you run out of planes (aluminium) or tanks and even artillery (tungsten). Either be fast, finish the Soviet Union before they out produce you. Or be cheesy and fabricate on Portugal, turkey and Sweden without a focus.
Not trying to be harsh but this video felt like you weren't really about what you were talking about which I felt like undermined your credibility.
i wrote a script for this one and was reading some things on there and saying them then trying to simplify them so people could understand some of it
I go for mobile warfare as germany as i always love to use armored divisions as their just stomp out infantry.
That and the desperate defense manpower bonuses.
those are good bonuses but if the tanks get encircled and you can only make a few then your doctrine only has 5% recruitable pop as a bonus
Only make a few, i mean is 30 factory's dedicated to making M4 shermans not good enough...
Well it all depends on the total amount of miltary factories you have
Holy shit, I never really even looked at the motorized/mechanized tree
Yea got some pretty good bonuses
Mass assault mass mob, plus radio and recovery rate guy, then air superiority plus support artillery as Russia then the NKVD focus and your max infantry 40th width
That..... Sounds like a lot LOL
Don't underestimate tactics. Mobile Warfare has by far the best. Superior Firepower lacks Blitz/Breakthrough and Backhand Blow, both incredibly useful for quick encirclements with tanks
ive always had problems with them 😢
After considering my tactics i usually take grand battleplan nowadays since it allows for your troops to decently hold the line when your army plan gets trashed for one reason or another, which causes the entire army to scramble to their new positions, opening up literally everything.
(Seriously why is the ai so stupid sometimes)
because its looking up youtube tutorials like these 😂
With Germany I always stick with Mobile Warfare. "Volkssturm" and "indiscriminate conscription" togehter give you 5% recuitable population. But I see the point your making. I'm going to try this out.
agreed mobile warfare is pretty good with the 5%
Line Art has 25 Soft Attack, Support Art only 15, so you need minimum 3 Line Art per Division for Dispersed Support to pay of.
huh ok thats interesting
Loved the video and learned a lot! I have however one question. What is the best land doctrine for an all cavalry army. (I apologize if this comes off as stupid or annoying)
Mass assault
So what Land doctrine is good for ussr? I play a lot with Medium tanks, so is mobile warfare the right thing for me?
Mass assault or Superior Firepower
Japanese going down the grand battleplan get infiltration because of ninjas. +25% night attack.
😲😲😲😲😲
I came back to this video just to listen to that southern accent "motorised"
Given the guide, and the cabinet options italy gets, which do you think is better for the European boot, Mobile warfare with the 10 width light tanks or the GBP doctrine and making those heavy tanks?
I suggest for you to also cover Air and Naval doctrines
hmm. not a bad suggestion ill start working on it tonight :)
Single player u need the extra org in ur tanks to break the 7 billion divsions they spamed out. Multi-player you've got a shitload of tanks and you need encirclments to win.
That "joke" about Japan was fine until you said you have Japanese friends. 1) Don't apologise for jokes. 2) ethnicity/nationality/religion of your friends have no bearing on if the "joke" is "racist" or not.
That was kind of part of the joke two though LOL
Which i better for France going for many artillery and anti-tanks,Grand Battleplan or Superior Firepower?
Probably Superior Firepower since I gives better defense and soft attack bonuses, and then probably anti tank since you're going to be mostly defensive trying to hold off German tanks
Lol as soon as you said "Germany should get superior firepower" I literally said "Are you insane?"
but dont you agree now?
Me and friends went full mobile warfare commonwealth in multi-player game and France had 53 armor 20 width the funny part is Germany blitzkrieged through the maginot line with 3 10 width cavalry divisions
Oof
i really need a video about the tactics, i was thinking that "guerrilla fighting" was the main goal of the last doctrine of desperate defence tree.
well guerrilla tactics are mostly for partisans
i mean the combat tactics, the one gives you -50% combat width, -70% attack for attacker and -60% attack for defender, it's pretty good for defending.
partisans are pretty useless, they won't work near the front because the army suppress them, and if the front is very far, well you are pretty close to lose anyway so why bother, maybe they will be good for new govern in exile mechanics.
not to kiss ass, but awesome tutorials. i’ve seen several from you now, and i’m really happy i found your channel. by the way, how far down my doctrines should i get before i go to war?
As far as possible, remember the further down the doctrine you are the more bonuses you'll have
i listened for about 2 minutes, then i started staring at my fishtank.
about 10 minutes later i realize that i have not been paying attention to the video. (thinking about work actually)
I respect what you are trying to achieve with this video and thank you for it, but please dont take offense when i say that potatoes like me will easily get distracted and we need our information snappy and to the point in order for something to stick.
i try but hoi4 guides and tutorials require a good chunk of detail. if i do it too quick people dont understand. to long people get bored so i try to hit the sweet spot
@@dustinl796 i think it says more about me than you, i am tired from work, and have never grasped the intricacies of hoi4 as most people seem to find it simple, and a lot of the time they have had prior experience with a previous game like hoi3.
i think the problem is that there is no golden bullet strat, there are many strats that will each work in different scenarios.
Think about poker, 5 minutes to learn and a lifetime to master, its one of those key elements that keep you playing.
I think it takes a lot longer than 5 minutes to learn Hoi4, despite it being a really good game, i just find the level of management a little too much and makes the game drag for me, but i guess thats what original fans of the Hoi series know and love, so i will not ask them to change the game, but maybe its just not for me.
Thanks again for the video, i will try to watch it again when i am less tired and more focussed! :)