I love how, despite the community never agreeing with anything, the dlc rankings always end up with artorias in #4 and the top 3 being shuffled around based on preferences. At least we can all see the gap between the 2 halves of the list 🤝
For me, even though ds1 is my least favourite of the series, i think that artorias is top 3, while ringed city is top 4, artorias of the abyss might not shine on areas ( though magicat didn't do ooacile enought justice, there's a good amount of side exploration there ) but artorias' DLC is a turning point for the better on fromsoftware's boss design, this is the first time fromsoftware really did amazing, fast paced bosses ( you can count OaS, not a fan of the gigajank or old king allant ) and the first truly good dragon of the series ( though his hitboxs are really bad ), it makes ds1 to have something worth playing after the first half of the game, it really needed this DLC Ringed city though, DS3 was kinda of amazing before ringed city, soo it wasn't as important to improve the game, and the content: the heap is decently good, though the swamp part is anoying, but considering people thought it would only be the city, is a nice extra with the best fromsoftware gank fight at the end of it, but the city... Is amazing, until we very quickly get to that swamp ( and the damn 6 herald Knight gank in the staircase ), which is kinda bad, specially with that giant thya summons archers, in fact, the enemies on the ringed city DLC are bad, with the huge exception that is the amazing ringed city Knight, then we get a tiny yet kinda bad catacomb part and the area is over ! Not before fighting midir first time around, halflight church is horrible, but midir is still the best dragon for now ( i need to give CURSE YOU BAYLE a couple more runs to see if my opinion still holds up ), gael is the perfect ending, the best boss ever made in the videogame industry IMO, but yeah, ds3 dlc has a lot of ups and downs
@@jajasking9652 I get what you are saying about innovation in Artorias of the Abyss and it should certainly carry some weight but at the end of the day I’d much rather go through The Ringed City than Artorias of the Abyss in 2024. I also understand the missed potential about the area. The Ringed City looks gorgeous when we arrive and yet we barely get to explore it, but even then I think the area is quite good, better than any area in AOTB imo. There are some cool moments in the swamp like the dragonslayer armor which drops the set and the silver knight which drops a big ass hammer. The moment just before the catacomb part where you fight the knights and can see Midir in the distance is pretty cool too. Not saying it’s perfect by any means but there are a lot of redeeming moments. And we get three S tier bosses.
Honestly SOTE and Old Hunters both are 10/10 for me. But I am inclined to give the edge to The Old Hunters, just cause Bloodborne would feel incomplete without it, while ER without SOTE is still an incredible game. Like you said, Old Hunters saved Bloodborne.
@@davidborned Oh yes, by in saved BB what I meant was wherever BB was lacking TOH picked up the slack. In Bossss amd weapon variety department, BB was kinda lacking, and TOH more than picked up any slack.
@@JTarnished They were cool and new but iirc a major complain was that there were too few of them. Like iirc Base Game had 13 weapons, and like Beast Claw is almost always used with the DLC Beast transformation. Some like tonitrus' other form was just an electric buff. On the other hand atleast to me dLC weapons felt much much cooler. While Saw Spear and Cleaver might be ol' reliable, it's the DLC weapons which I usually aim for in repeat playthroughs.
@@davidbornedBloodborne boss wise sucked without Old Hunters. Gherman for me personally was the only good base game boss and i’ve seen so many others say the same thing
Honestly Shadow of the Erdtree might be one of my favorite DLCs ever made, I enjoyed myself thoroughly through everything (except Gaius), and I found myself being one of the few people who actually enjoyed Consort Radahn. He's one of the hardest fights I've ever fought but rarely did it piss me off, which is a rarity of hardest bosses (like S-Ranking Saltbaker eugh). Messmer is absolutely one of From's best bosses ever but everything about Midra made him my favorite. Amazing how they made Elden Ring 2 an addon to Elden Ring 1, truly a great position for the future of FromSoft
Probably because I had to play through the main game just before because I forgot I started ng+, but I’ve found myself burning out in this DLC. Thoroughly enjoyed Rellana and Messmer, not sure about Midra and Radahn as I haven’t fought them yet. But I’ve found myself just waiting to get to the bosses
The crown dlc's will always be amazing to be me for the fun level design and cool lore of the kingdoms. All wrapped in tragedy and showing the failings of each king uniquely.
Regarding SotE not improving boss quality compared to the base game as much as the other souls games, I’m not really sure there’s much they could do in that department. Fights like Mohg, Radagon, Maliketh, Malenia, and Godfrey were about as complex as the Elden Ring combat system could handle imo.
Yea, tbh Messmer is the only boss that matches that complexity. Even the challenge boss(Radahn) isn’t really complex, his difficulty just comes from ridiculously high scaling while heavily limiting player dps. Once you learn how to avoid 2-3 goofy attacks in phase 2 you pretty much have the fight mastered.
While I do agree that few bosses could exceed the ones you mentioned in terms of quality and mechanical complexity in the confines of the game, I feel like SotE could’ve had a boss or two on the same level as the bosses you mentioned. Like I found Prutrescent knight and metyr underwhelming for remembrance fights for example. Same with gaius. I would’ve gladly had those fights replaced with one or two more Messmer-level bosses. I do agree on the whole tho. That’s why I think fromsoft should start making far more substantial changes to this formula as much as I love elden ring
@@debater452 i dont think there are 4 s tier bosses and 7 good bosses. i dont think putrescent knight, metyr, or gaius are good fights, just very meh. Also this is definitely just my opinion, but messmer and bayle are the only S tier fights with relanna amd midra potentially being S tier on later playthroughs. I think the meh bosses i just mentioned did not feel like proper remembrance bosses and they were not up to my standards i expected from fromsoft. I think the good/amazing bosses we did get were great and met my standards, but the meh bosses didnt even feel cool (apart from metyr's lore after you beat her) which was disappointing because even some of the bad remembrance bosses in the base game like fire giant felt like spectacles you could enjoy if you tried
the dlc they already gave us is all we are getting. Some sort of Sekiro sequel is possible, but there's no way they are going to go back to a 2019 game after releasing two full games and a dlc to one of them
I feel like you hit the nail on the head as to why The Old Hunters still edges SotE, it makes Bloodborne feel so complete and truly elevates it as an overall work in a way that SotE, despite its immense scope and incredible additions, does not (or only slightly does, perhaps). I think the rankings in general are really well-thought out and I believe my own ranking would be very similar, though I'd lean into talking about the narrative impact and the weight of the lore as a larger point too. Great video with many well articulated points!
@@internetguypersonHis second phase is completely different to cleric beast. The real culprit here is the cathedral ward reuse, the living failures being failures and the first half of Laurence being the cleric beast on fire and also having the same model as cleric beast. Can't see how anyone can put old Hunter's over shadow of the erdtree considering these.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef The cathedral ward reuse? Did you not understand why it was called hunters nightmare? Even then, the paths, enemies and level design are completely different with references to the normal cathedral ward just to make it clear to the player what the hunters nightmare is. The hunters running around with boom hammers, saifs and renjis zabimaru killing beasts is badass man, you’re tweaking. Hunters nightmare SLAPS. The hunters nightmare is a perfect example of how you create a new area based off an old area without making it feel same old As for Lawrence/living failures, if we are complaining about partially reusing a boss and a mediocre boss, then we gotta call out that Shadow of the erdtree has Metyr, golden hippo and the commander gaius, all who are straight up ASS. Living failures is just a weird gimmick fight. Those 3 are genuinely terrible to play against. And that’s not mentioning the mental torment called the final boss
Old Hunters is the best DLC simply because of how much it improved the entire game as a whole. I dont think SOTE really changed my opinion of Elden Ring for better or worse.
I agree, but I think that speaks more to the quality of Elden Ring's base game than anything. I love Bloodborne, but it's really carried by its DLC. Elden Ring would have been regarded as one of Fromsoft's finest games even without Shadow of the Erdtree.
Damn dude you freaking nailed it with that SOTE Brief review and ranking; that's EXACTLY what I think about this whole DLC and besides that Bloodborne is absolutely better even it is shorter
I played Erdtree first then finally played Bloodborne and it's DLC just to see what the hype was about and after experiencing it I have you agree with you. I still love all of them though, Fromsoft does not miss with their DLCs.
Heyo! Everyone was holding their breaths waiting to see which dlc would be number 2 lol! Not a choice I agree with but a choice I can and will respect. Personally they're not even close for me and SotE DID make ER a better game for me overall but again, I can understand why it's number 2. Both SotE and Old Hunters are 10/10 for me anyway so I'm pretty happy either way. All the choices overall were fair and explained well in a reasonable matter. Also plus points for "respecting your audience" this time. Also both video ideas would be great but personally I'd like to see how you think SotE bosses stack up against base game bosses and HOPEFULLY we end this constant back and forth in the server with it, so that's what I hope you do for the next video. Anyway, good job. This was a great and fun to watch video.
I feel like Belurat and Enir Ilim are better when considered parts of the same legacy dungeon (same as Miquella's Haligtree and Elphael). The first part is obviously scaled for immediate access, while the second part is scaled for endgame, but when you play on NG+, the DLC difficulty is more or less consistent, since the game assumes you've carried the Scadutree Blessing levels over. Playing the two as one area is so much more fun. This is probably the less intuitive way to play Belurat, as it requires you yo have burned the thorns first, but it's the superior experience. Removing the teleport after Romina could've gone a long way to hammer that point home.
@Sephirothkingdom782 the whole point of his comment was you can experience them as one dungeon in New game plus because the scaling makes it viable to explore both at the same time. What are you on about? Everyone knows they're do seperate dungeons rn. But it's much better to explore them as one
Shadow of the Erdtree is probably my pick for number 1. While Old Hunters has more quality and way less downsides, it also offers way less overall. It's more compact, tightly designed enjoyable experience, but that massive scale of SOTE and the amount of quality content it has makes it win in my eyes. Sure SOTE has way more flaws, but it's that amount of ups that makes it win in my book. I just find Bloodborne's enemy and boss design simpler to the point I get more kick out of ER's bosses. Most things from DS3 and BB feel rather simple now because of how ER handled boss designs.
For me quality>quantity I don't agree with the enemy design point at all. Belurat literally had basic hollowed npcs but with a shadow filter for the whole area, even shadow keep had this same issue at times. None of the enemies were on the level of the old hunters from the hunters nightmare or the sharks from fishing hamlet. I find the percentage of good vs bad bosses to be a lot better in old hunters too.
for me quality over quantity. The Old Hunters is consistently peak FromSoft area and boss design (minus Living Failures or maybe Laurence). Despite its 10-15 hour runtime it has some of the best enemies, combat encounters, and especially bosses in the whole series. Also, the new weapon roster genuinely changes the entire game, and most of them easily warrant a whole playthrough with them.
@@catwiffhat4274 exactly. Some people just do the dlc to get the pizza cutter and do a whole playthrough with it. Also I think Laurence is pretty good. The only real issue I have with him is his reused moves in phase 1 but he’s fun to fight regardless so it doesn’t really matter. His runback is pretty bad too ig. I like how phase 2 focuses a lot on positioning too.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 The thing is I agree, quality over quantity. I just find SOTE's quality to be higher. Old Hunters balance of quality is better, but the ups of SOTE go higher in my eyes. Mainly because I find Bloodborne's enemy and boss design somewhat simpler by comparison, so even if Old Hunters does quality much more frequently, it still doesn't go as far as Sote does. And then you add the amount of content and Sote becomes a clear winner in my eyes.
@@highvoltage7559 yea sure that’s fair I just didn’t find SOTE quality to be higher tbh. I don’t really think a single boss matched the level of someone like Ludwig and not a single enemy matched the level of versatility of the old hunters. The weapons I also found to be generally a lot better in old hunters. People make entire gameplay slots just to play with the pizza cutter and I think that says a lot for a game with such fewer weapons. I think Bayle was the best boss in the dlc and in the whole game in fact but even he doesn’t match the highs of a Ludwig imo. I understand the bosses aren’t as complex but I think that’s for the better because, as they are currently, they perfectly compliment bloodborne’s combat in a way that a boss like consort of miquella doesn’t. Also yea SOTE has way more content but it doesn’t seem as impressive since so many areas give off the illusion that there’s a lot but there really isn’t such as cerulean coast, the entire grassy sections before romina, jagged peak, and every finger area. Abyssal woods too, I don’t understand why they couldn’t add more interesting enemy encounters than just rats.
I respect your opinion, but I personally think Shadow of the Erdtree has surpassed the Old Hunters. For me SOTE has added 3 all time great bosses to FromSoft’s catalogue, those being Midra, Messmer, and Bayle. Messmer and Bayle in particular are both up there with Gael and Isshin as some of my favourite Soulsborne bosses of all time and definitely surpass any boss from the Old Hunters in my mind. I think you also undersold the quality of the weapons, level design, and soundtrack in SOTE. The soundtrack has some of my new favourite boss osts of all time. The osts for Bayle and Messmer both completely took my breath away the first time I heard them. The ost for Midra also deserves a mention for being one of the creepiest and most eerie tracks in the game. The weapon catalogue is easily on par with the Old Hunters since it added 7 new weapon types almost all of which are equally viable for both PVE and PVP. They are all also very fun to use with the Great Katanas, Backhand Blades, and Messmer’s Spear in particular being some of my favourite weapons in all of Elden Ring. In terms of level design, I think Shadow Keep is basically a much larger and better designed version of Research Hall from the Old Hunters. It may actually be one of my favourite areas in the entire franchise with the amount of branching paths and unique platforming/puzzle segments mixed into it. Ancient Ruins of Rauh and Jagged Peak were also a ton of fun to explore and are easily some of my favourite areas in the entirety of Elden Ring due to their insane verticality and environmental storytelling. Overall, while I did love the Old Hunters and understand why you put it at number 1. I do think SOTE is the more fun expansion for me.
Not easily, but i still agree, old hunters is better, even if i don't like fishing halmet and the hall area as much as some other people do ( fishing halmet is still great though, the problem with the hall IMO is how ganky it can get and the stupidly high damage of the basic enemies there ) btw, love the past ? Version of yharnam in rhe DLC, the enemies are top too, the bosses are soo good, ok, even living failures are kinda decent ( ironic they are failures, as they were the ones that ended up being sucesfull at contacting ans receiving an answer from the cosmos ), i would have liked that one a lot more than celestial emisaries, lawrence is good, the first phase doesn't quite mix up things enought comparated to cleric beast, second phase is cool though, but it feels like it lacks moves on that phase, the other 3 though, top 10 best bosses ever made, i think people habe praised them enought
@@jajasking9652yeah Living Failures is surprisingly not that bad imo. Whenever I've fought them I feel like the fight is pretty manageable, and I always have time to kill one before more spawn in. And their phase transition and music makes up for any shortcomings, what an awesome moment. They're definitely not a great boss by any means, but much better than other multi-enemy bosses like Shadows of Yharnam, Godskin Duo, etc. (I've never played Dark Souls so idk about multi-enemy bosses there; I hear from people that Ornstein and Smough are either really good or overrated so idk. From the footage of the Lothric fight, that duo fight looks really cool too)
I found myself just as dissapointed with the enemy variety in Shadow of the Erdtree. With the more compact and stacked layout of the map, I expected each area to have at least one unique DLC enemy. What we got instead was the same fodder ghost people in almost every corner of the open world and legacy dungeon, curseblades, bloodfiends, gravebirds, and Messmer Soldiers everywhere. There's also way too much content reused from the base game. I was not happy when I saw another Deathrite Bird, but this time surrounded by annoying ads. But then again, it makes up for this with its incredible map layout, which is like putting the first half of Dark Souls 1 in the open world formula. There is much less wasted space, even in the emptier corners of the map, because figuring out all the ways the map branches out and connects takes center stage. The minor dungeons are also a huge step-up from the base game, and stumbling upon Demi-Human Yoda jumping around like a crackhead, parrying my attacks and spamming magic attacks was one of my most memorable moments from the expansion. So in terms of exploration, it's two steps forward (map layout and minor dungeons) and one step back (lack of enemy variety).
@@stefanostsougkranis5851 99% sure every new enemy type in this DLC can be encountered before progressing to Scadu Altus, minus the Divine Warrior guys
@@Yharimsi went to belurat very early so most of it was unique and still you dont see the tiny scorpions and big shadow dudes much outside of it. Shadow keep has fire knights, pretty sure theyre unique to it. And enir ilim has unique remixed lion knights and im also pretty sure the enemies that summon aoe’s at your feet are only seen there. Thats why i said im ok with the variety in legacy dungeons. But theres only 3 of them and 2 are pretty short. In abyssal woods, midras manse and ancient ruins of rauh it was noticeable and disappointing to me
We aren’t paying attention to how much Old Hunters reuses so dang many enemies from base game, like 60-70% of the enemies in the DLC are from base game. - Male Yharnam villagers. - Winter Lanterns before Orphan. - The same Yharnam crows. - Dogs but now covered in blood. - Humanoid Beasts but scared now. - The Witch close to Ludwig fog gate. - The crazy old wheelchair guys. - Church Servant guys in Research Hall. - Bloodstarved Beast reused. - Cainhurst Castle lickers. - The same mice in Research Hall. - Lawrence is Cleric Beast with fire & a very bad phase 2. - 1st DLC area is literally Cathedral Ward but worse. I think Magicat forgot to mention that but somehow mentioned it for SOTE which is unfair criticism.
@@HeyTarnishedbecause those are never the main enemies. Mainly in hunters nightmare you fight old hunters and the giants. And calling it a reused cathedral ward is silly, it has completely different aesthetics and theme. Research hall you mostly fight the patients. Theres like one church guy lol. And fishing hamlet you again mainly fight fish people. In abyssal woods you mainly fight rats.
I lowkey like Crown of the Ivory King more than Ashes of Ariendel and Crown of the Sunken King. I love just about everything about this dlc besides frigid outskirts, which I always skip nowadays.
@@calbon2994 ashes lf ariandel is honestly the worst dlc. Incomplete story, gank fest level layout, 1-2 hours of content and 1 decent boss. Paying 20 dollars for that is a travesty. Ashes +Ringed city is around the same size as old hunters but is double the price.
"Shadow of the Erdtree adds one boss to my favorites of all-time list, maybe 2, while The Old Hunters add three". This comment bothers me because it suggests Maria deserves to even be in the same breath as Rellana. Maria, the boss you can stunlock for 40% of their health. Only thing Maria has on Rellana is build-up and cutscene, so everything besides the boss fight. Besides that, I think people underrate how good the boss line-up is in SotE. Messmer, Rellana, Midra, Bayle, Putrescent Knight, Dancing Lion, Romina and Scadutree Avatar are all good to great bosses. And Bellurat and Enir-ilim are connected, between that and The Shadow Tower and the Manse it has enough Legacy Dungeon content to compete with TOH. I agree that TOH is more important to Bloodborne than SotE is to Elden Ring though. Old Hunters has 11 of the 26 right-hand weapons and much needed great late-game areas and bosses.
Cause Maira has that story factor the only reason why ren however you say her name isn’t the best boss is cause she has no story and you can even skip her
@3:21 that's only if you use a bunch of smelter wedges before fume knight, but don't find any others. There's enough smelter wedges in the dlc, and chances are if you are exploring thoroughly enough to use the first batch up, you're going to find the second batch as well
Great video, Magicat! My personal ranking is: 1. The Old Hunters 2. Shadow of the Erdtree 3. The Ringed City 4. Artorias of the Abyss 5. Crown of the Old Iron King 6. Crown of the Sunken King 7. Ashes of Ariandel 8. Crown of the Ivory King I'd say The Old Hunters is probably my favorite DLC / expansion pack in all of gaming, although Cryptic Passage from Blood (1997) is not far behind. The best DLCs in my opinion not only feature some of the best content in their given games but also elevate those games far beyond the level of the base game. I believe The Old Hunters did just that.
Honestly Bloodbornes DLC really does carry the entire game, Bloodborne itself is kinda mid but the DLC makes it incredible, so maybe BB should be at top just for that, not that it’s better than SoTE but that it’s that much better than it’s base game
My biggest complaint about SOTE is how small Rauh is. When I first took the teleporter and got a sneak peak, my reaction was "wow, this is beautiful, easily my fav zone". Then coming back after Shadowkeep I feel I ran through everything so quickly, when I defeated the final boss of the zone I was like "that can't be it, right?".
Crown of the Ivory King was sick tbh my 3rd fave dlc behind Old Hunters & Ringed City, only reason it got ranked this low is the horrendous co op section
the old hunters has 3 great bosses (ludwig, lady maria and kos) SOTE has Messmer, Bayle, Midra and Rellana (probally romina, dancing lion and radahn too) the old hunters also repeat enemies (the dogs for example) and the shadow keep is better than any area the old hunters, how is this better?
great ranking. I still have old hunters at 1 too. I have iron king in top 5 tho cuz of the great verticality, visuals, and best bosses out of the 3 crown dlcs imo
Orphan theme is still great. I get why you say it gets overshadowed because all other 4 bosses basically have 10/10 soundtracks but personally I think Orphan’s theme holds up with the others. I love the contrast between phase 1 and 2 and how it fits with how the Orphan behaves.
SotE and Old Hunters are evenly matched for me. Deciding between the two is impossible. One has so much great content that it blows everything else out of the water, while the other is a flawless, intricately designed, yet fairly small and contained addition to an already immaculate game. This boss quality of both DLCs are vastly better then their base games, the area design is better, and the lore is at its peak. At the end of the day, it really comes down to what I’m feeling in the moment.
Wow, I’m truly stunned with shadow of the red tree being second lmao. This dlc has done more for me than multiple modern $70 games, and it’s only a dlc. And everything, truly everything, had only been improved upon. The bosses, the level design, the dungeons, the weapons, spells, talismans, it felt like I was playing elden ring for the first time again. I love the old hunters as well, but shadow of the erdtree could very much serve as a sequel to elden ring, it’s so good.
@@mehmetvursavas5922not really, vocal minority on social media reflects that but not actual player base and overall reviews. The DLC is not perfect at all, but if you think it’s disappointing, I don’t even know what you would consider impressive at that point.
Great video. My list goes something like this: 8. Crown of the ivory king: it was just very tiny compared to most other dlcs. Eleum Loyce is very good before fighting Aava but it becomes a chore when you have to find all knights. Aava and Burnt ivory king were pretty good but not among my favourite bosses ever. And I dread going to the Outskirts 7. Ashes of Ariandel: very tiny dlc, again, but the Painted world is a very good area on its own and Sister Friede is among my top 10 best bosses ever 6. Crown of the iron king: Brume tower can be sometimes frustrating with the ganks but it's a very creative level with a lot of unique enemies. Fume knigh and Sir Alonne are pretty much the peak of DS2. But the iron passage and the memories of the king were just awful 5. Crown of the sunken king: amazing main area, pretty good main bosses but the Cave of the dead can kiss my ass 4. The ringed city: very good bosses (aside from Halflight), very good areas and it ended perfectly the DS trilogy 3. Artorias of the abyss: this DLC pretty much saves the endgame of DS1. Even if the areas aren't the best, it pretty much peaks in every other aspects 2. SOTE: such a big and fantastic expansion, they could have just made ER 2 with this but I'm glad they didn't. If it has less empty zones it would be easly my favourite 1. TOH: this dlc is just peak in every aspects. Lots 9f amazing weapons, areas and there aren't any bad bosses. It also elevated BB from one of my favourites souls games to MY favourite of them ever!!
Petition to add aspect of the crucible: centaur and tongue, the death sorcery spell from the catacombs which is like an assault rifle, and more dragon communion and frenzy spells.
It's hard for me to decide but for now I'd say SOTE for the amount of content you get. Perhaps I'll change my mind once I'm done replaying it again. Also I would definitely like to see you rank all the base game plus dlc bosses together before an area ranking.
Old Hunters for me is top 1 too. While playing SOTE for the first time, it really took me a LOOONG time to get me impressed with the enemies and weapons, I feel like it doesnt have a good first impression in that regard, add the lack of good rewards when you explore the empty areas, its a waste of time. But with The Old Hunters, it was instantly impressive to me in how many good things you can find right away (enemies, unique weapons, fantastic music, memorable bosses). Also in Bloodborne's DLC you can actually find useful items to upgrade the weapons from the base game. In SOTE I just found things like smithin stones +3 lol that shit does nothing when you have all bell bearings.
Old Hunters single handedly saved bloodborne's boss quality. Like the difference between the bosses of Old Hunters and base game cannot be understated. It's one of the few areas that bloodborne comes up short. SOTE does feel like a fitting expansion to the perfect game that Elden Ring was. Exploration was a blast, and the bosses are some of my favorites they have ever done. I think SOTE has finally given Elden Ring bosses the edge over the perfection of DS3. Ringed City was so close to being the perfect DLC for DS3, but I wish they went a bit more on the city itself instead of spending time on half-light. While Gael, Midir and Deamon Princes are arguably the best in their respective categories (Bayle edges out Midir for the Best Dragon fight for me, but it's totally up to debate they are both perfect). However, DS3 wasn't lacking in good bosses, it was lacking in good bloodborne level exploration and level layout. Therefore, it cannot beat SOTE as it's just not able to defeat the amount of quality and quantity that SOTE brings.
The way I see it, SOTE is the best DLC, but TOH improves BB way more than the former improves ER. Gives BB the coolest assortment of weapons in the series, some well-needed theme variety, and an actually good boss lineup
I completely agree that Bloodborne needs Old Hunters, that’s an amazing take. SOTE and Old Hunters are tied for me at the moment, still have to think about it for a bit :)
Never played bloodborne and demon souls because of ps exclusive but i would say Sote is the best just because of the sheer size and content. Thats one of elden rings biggest strenght and also biggest weakness on the same time
yeah i get that scadutree fragments were a necessity but i wish they had done it more like sekiro where you get items by exploration and upgrade materials by beating dungeon bosses and main bosses rather than just explore. i couldnt care less about the open world design cause im much more of a linear progression with inner connectivity type of guy and exploration without directions is tedious asf for me. i wish i had more incentive to fight the side bosses too cause i ended up beating like two of them besides the hippos and one of them was by accident when i was just trying out the deflecting hardtear. i'm not really interested in anything but the designated major areas like castle ensis or shadow keep (which are phenomenal btw) but the long drawn out open world segments just piss me off. 6/10.
Old hunters it’s amazing and has nothing bad in my opinion besides living failures. It’s not the worst fight, but it’s okay because you forget all about it once you fight Lady Maria right after. Shadow of the Erd tree had some beautiful environments. Especially all the glowing blue flower area. I think Dark souls 3’s DLC’s have some of the best bosses in the whole soulsborne genre, though. $15 was worth it just for Sister Friede’s fight tbh. The satisfaction I felt after beating her was worth it in my book. I’ve spent $15 on a lot worse before.
great list, i personaly like iron king more than Ashes of ariandel and artorias, the brume tower is on my top three best areas from DS. agree on your first choice, the old hunters its the best
The amount of mechanics, weapons, spells, bosses, areas, and other things that added SOTE can't be compared with old hunters. But well, bloodborne always will be the best in the eyes of the nostalgia I think. Also, what a disrespect to Iron king, the best dlc from ds2 and it definitely added more than ashes of ariandel that only had 2 bosses and one of them is f tier. For me would be: 1 - SOTE 2 - Old hunters 3 - The ringed city 4 - Artorias of the abyss 5 - Iron king 6 - Ariandel 7 - Sunken king 8 - Ivory king
1st time watching one of your videos and I really enjoyed it especially the end because you summarized my exact thoughts on Shadow of the Erdtree and Old Hunters Bloodborne was my favorite game before ER and is still to this day a phenomenal game in my mind but the DLC took it from a fantastic game to a perfect game for me whereas Shadow of the Erdtree is just more ( and quite good additions ) of a perfect game so the quality might be better but it’s less impactful. I gotta complete it a 2nd time.
1 Sote 2 Old Hunters 3-6 Are somewhere in between I'm not sure about exact placements 7 Artorias of the abyss 8 Ashes of Ariandel Ashes has too little going for it imo, it's way too short and what is there stuffers in quality because it can't cook for long enough for me to get super invested. The level design is on par with the rest of ds3 but that doesn't say much. Friede is good, an s tier boss but not in my top 25 so she doesn't raise the dlc above last place. Grave tender sucks. Artorias dlc is super iconic in terms of bosses and lore but it doesn't compare to the other dlcs overall. The biggest strength of DS1 (compared to other souls games) is it's interconnected looping world and level design, but in terms of level design the dlc is not on the level of the base game and it's far too small to loop anything so it loses its biggest strengths and instead falls back on improved boss quality. And the bosses are better then DS1 base game but they don't compare to the newer games bosses so it falls short. No ds1 boss is in my top 50. DS2 dlcs are great in terms of level design and gimmicks, they do everything very well and don't fall short in any category exept bosses where like half aren't that impressive, some are shit and only half are good/great. Ivory King and Fume Knight enter my top 50 so they are good. DS2 dlc invaders are also by far the most fun and interesting invaders in all of soulsborne catalog and are the only invaders worth talking about. Maldron the Assassin and Holy Knight Aurheim come to my mind immediately when thinking of amazing invaders. Very sad they never brought those types of invaders back to the newer titles 😞. The Ringed City has some absolute banger bosses with Midir, Demon Princes and Gael. Half-Light being required to beat the dlc is a crime. The dlc does great in every category exept the level design. It's beautiful, has amazing art style and direction. The music is awsome, the lore is good and the esthetic of the rigned city is so cool. To bad it sucks to play through it, it's mostly a straight line with a couple branching paths that never loop back. Fighting anything there (that isn't a boss) is not engaging and I'd rather run past everything. When the level design is compared to DS2 dlcs it isn't half as good so which i prefer has to do with if i prefer good levels or good bosses, I can't decide so i have them all tied. The Old Hunters is much better then any dlc before it and i have a big gap between it and the rest. It simply has everything going for it with it not lacking in any category. The bosses are great, not as good as the ringed city but still great. There are 5 bosses in the old hunters and none of them are even close to as bad as Half-light, so that is good. The atmosphere, music, lore, bosses, level design, secrets and everything else is great in the dlc. Nothing more to say just goated. Sote is the best dlc imo, it has the best of everything, the best music (subjective as the rest of my list), the best level design by far, the best/most secrets, the best map, the best bosses by far, and basically the best everything. But not only does it do everything the best, it also has the most good stuff, instead of having 3 good bosses it has a dozen, instead of having a little bit of good level design it has a lot and a lot of it is optional as well, so if there is something you don't like, chances are you can skip it. Unlike Half-Light. I do like every dlc, even tho i said mostly negative things about ashes that's mostly to justify my reasons for putting it last and i don't dislike it at all. If i had to re buy it now or never play ut again i would re buy it right away just so I'm clear, i still like all of the dlcs. Also i lied Sote doesn't do everything the best, it's invaders suck compared to DS2 dlc invaders, the only cool thing red phantoms do in sote is talk and have voice lines but they suck to fight and have no cool gimmicks like DS2 invaders. So sad they did that to invaders after DS2 😢.
I said sote added a dozen good bosses but i meant when compared to the best Elden Ring bosses. Even Death Knight who is a random dungeon boss is a good-great boss when compared to non remembrance/older titles best bosses.
wasnt impressed by shadow of erdtree honestly especially for $40 price tag, feels like a different game rather than building on the base game also ends really abruptly, and doesnt feel like a good close to the elden ring IP, considering they said there would be no further dlc bloodborne DLC will never be topped imo
Why would it be a close to the Elden ring ip when the base game ending exists? You kill the only other demigod what else would happen. And how is it not worth 40 dollars when it has over eleven new bosses and a bunch of areas. I know not every area has a ton in them but still. Also it definitely does improve problems from the base game, like the more complex map layout to discover or the improved side dungeons.
@@mehmetvursavas5922 it’s quality and quantity bro, you could argue that something like gauis or metyr aren’t amazing but Midra Messmer Bayle Rellana Dancing Lion were all amazing. They’re not overtunrd either, sounds like you just suck.
I think it's crazy to put Old Hunters above Shadow of the Erdtree simply because of the massive size difference. On replays you can simply skip the parts you don't enjoy which means you just have so much amazing content to enjoy. I also think the argument of Shadow of the Erdtree not feeling like that much of a step-up of the base game is a weird criticism. Are we basing the quality of a DLC on the quality of their base game now? Elden Ring has mid level bosses that can contend with the high level bosses of other games. Bosses like Loretta, Godskin Apostle or Death Knights among others would be major bosses in any other Souls games. It's harder to be a step-up from Elden Ring's base game than it is to be a step-up from Bloodborne's base game. I think the fact that SotE is a sequel disguised as a DLC should make it win by default. Imagine if we got a Bloodborne 2 as a "DLC".
How is the descision betwen shadow of the erdtree and old hunter hard Shadow of the erdtree has twice the quality and 10× the content of old hunters Bro how can you put sote at 2. And old hunters at 1. thats criminal
7.Sunken King (I didn't really enjoy the area, just the aesthetici of it) 6. Ash of Scamdel (if friede wasn't god tier boss easily worst dlc, even if Friede was great) 5.Ivory King 4.Artorias 3.Iron King (yall need to understand how GOOD this dlc feels compared to the main game, 2 great bosses and one amazing and unique area...somehow i never got ganged here) 2. Ringed City 1.SOTE (i have idk 30hr and I beaten just 4 bosses, took a break for like 1-2 weeks will continue whenever I feel like it but this dlc 180C my view on Er so it has the most worth, cant wait to fight Miquella for 10hr) No BB cuz you aint caching me with a console, go pc or go home
I would go like that: 7 Crown of the Ivory King 5/10 6 Ashes of Ariendel 5.5/10 5 Crown of the Sunken King 6/10 4 Crown of the Old Iron King 7/10 3 Artorias of the Abyss 8/10 2 Shadow of the Erdtree 9.5/10 1 Ringed City 9.5/10 (Havent' played Bloodborne DLC, but would probably be on the podium)
SOTE is beyond comparing the rest of the DLCs. It’s like comparing an entire game to a small DLC. My favorite game is DS3… but ER dlc smashes BB and it’s not close.
I don't think so. Only issue with bloodborne's base game is the bosses, and even then it only has very few bad fights being one reborn, emissary, and witches. This isn't even a huge issue because, unlike sekiro or ds3, the game isn't as centered around boss fights to the point where it sacrifices level design and atmosphere for it the same way ds3 does. At worst it should only deduct like 1 out of 10 points from the game. Elden ring has a lot more issues imo, I think the weapons are generally a lot less satisfying to use, the areas don't feel that great aside from stormveil and leyndell, and the amount of reused bosses got tiring to the point where nearly every catacomb is useless. It's a bigger game but with that it has a lot more flaws, which hinder the game from being as replayable as something like BB. Areas like mountaintop and consecrated snowfield are also some of the worst cases of wasted potential tbh. Bloodborne was already like a 9/10 game without the dlc because it's incredibly good atmosphere and weapon variety made up for the lack of great bosses at times. It's like extra credit used to patch up issues such as having to fight encounters such as witches of hemwick.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 I agree that elden ring has many flaws. but Bloodborne is not saved either. The second half seems terrible to me and not only in bosses, also areas, most of them are extremely linear and without many interesting things to explore compared to the first areas, the chalices are also extremely bad and most of the important bosses are repeated. or they place common enemies with a life bar, I could talk about many other issues, such as that it has the worst healing system in the saga and without its DLC the weapons are too few to stand on their own. I think Bloodborne needs its DLC more than any game in the series except Sekiro, which I think is its most perfect game overall.
@@mocho4487 also I don’t understand what is so bad about bloodbornes second half, especially when ER has stuff like mountaintop of the giants and consecrated snowfield (the most empty areas in the entire game). It’s not helped when they reuse cool bosses like astel and then proceed to have something as miserable as fire giant. Farum azula has the issue of poor enemy design despite having a decent layout. There’s 2 reused lich dragon type enemies too, along with the bird section that leads to the grace before the malekith fight. Also I don’t see your complaint about bosses either, the only bad fight(s) in the second half is one reborn and maybe micolash. Wet nurse is a good boss with an interesting moveset and an extremely cool design. Gehrman is top 3 final bosses in the series, and logarius is an incredibly good fight. Ebrietas is probably the best beast type enemy in the base game too. I don’t see your problem tbh. Also no bloodborne doesn’t need the dlc the most. Ds1 literally has only a single great fight in the entirety of its base game, being orenstein and smough. Ds2 is in and of itself a mediocre game in nearly every aspect for the base game, and ds3 has nothing going for it apart from the boss fights and smooth combat which still doesn’t feel as smooth as bloodborne’s. The enemy design is good in ds3 too but it still falls short to bloodborne’s enemies even in the dlc, due to how varied and complex the old hunter enemies are. Chalice dungeons are irrelevant. Removing them wouldn’t make the game any better. They’re like extra credit on a school assignment, you can get 2/10 on it and it would still help your grade because of those 2 points. It’s easy to ignore everything bad about the dungeons and only look at the good since they’re entirely optional.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 I don't consider the second half to be exceptionally bad compared to, say, DS1. but in my opinion it does not offer anything particularly interesting for that moment. neither in chief nor in zones Elden Ring has its nasty parts like the fire giant or the sacroderm duo, but I can still see large areas like Farum and Haligtree and with big or notable bosses like Maliketh, Placi, Mohg, Godfrey, Radagon, Malenia. In Bloodborne there is only the Gehrman Mergo, without being bad, is also not particularly exciting, even compared to the first bosses.
@@mocho4487 I don’t think gehrman or mergo are lacking compared to the first bosses. Ebrietas is there too, probably the best beast boss in the base game. I also don’t think it’s fair to directly compare bloodborne boss quantity vs elden ring boss quantity because one is open world while the other isn’t, so it’s bound to have less bosses let alone less good bosses. Its fine if you don’t find the latter areas engaging but imo I found them pretty enjoyable, especially the areas where you have your insight affect them such as the cathedral ward which also looks visually stunning
Ashes of Ariandel have better area than Ringed City imo. Ringed City area are so disappointing. Supposed "city" are just street follow up with swamp just after Dreg Heap poison swamp, skeleton cave and ended with PVP bosses. Does Dark Souls 3 need more way to PVP? Is invasion, red summon, undead match not enough already? That boss slot could've been an actual boss.
TOH vs SOTE is very difficult. There are strong arguments for both. I think on average TOH has better bosses (although much fewer). Ludwig is still my favorite in the whole series. I think exploration is much better in SOTE. Everything is pretty much a straight path in TOH iirc besides the research hall. There weren't any moments in TOH that blew my mind quite like discovering that invisible wall in Shadow Keep that keeps going down and down to the Abyssal Woods. But thats not very fair since Elden Ring is an open world game and some might prefer that TOH is more linear. On average, I also think the weapons and new equipment are better in TOH but that's also hardly a fair comparison. I would also say I prefer the areas in SOTE. Abyssal Woods and Shadow Keep were the real highlights. I think overall SOTE has some lower lows than TOH, but they never reached levels to me that I would consider bad. Like I would have definitely preferred two or three more enemy types instead of finding the fly McGees everywhere. No moments gave me the same highs as Orphan or Ludwig but Bayle and Midra come close and I actually really enjoyed learning the Consort fight. I would probably give it to SOTE overall but that could be recency bias
SOTE has way too many issues for me. More recycled bosses, more empty open world areas filled with basic boring enemies, Gaius and Radahn suck, etc. It's fantastic, but has all the same weaknesses as ER's main game. Ringed City easily beats it for me
@@rakhoo5236 Yeah, the title is correct. In his opinion, they're the best, because quality of these games is subjective. If there is objectivity, though, The Old Hunters is still better than SOTE.
this is before watching. I think bloodborne might take the cake, namely because its way more consistent in terms of quality. ironically, i personally think the game is very overrated but the dlc is amazing. COncerning SotE, while it is amazing, i feel like i had unrealistic expectations in some aspects of the dlc (like the scope of some of the legacy dungeons and some of the remembrance fights) and i also feel like they fumbled in a few areas (a few fights suck or are underwhelming, a couple of areas felt a bit too empty). that being said, SotE is still amazing. i just probably have to give it another try at a certain point
Old Hunters is a visual/atmosphere masterpiece with good mechanics. SOTE is a mechanical masterpiece with good visuals/atmosphere. The level design of the SOTE map and the central legacy dungeons is second to none. Rellana is the most mechanically suffisticated boss they've ever designed. Neither of these were as well presented as The Fishing Hamlet or the Ludwig fight.
Rellana is such a fucking incredible boss fight. Such a shame that they shit the bed when it came to presentation. If they just gave her some dialogue or a cutscene or anything to present her as more than “random OP knight” she would’ve probably been my new favorite boss.
@Yharims please enjoy your straight corridor in fishing hamlet, and spamming roll until you pass out in ds3. I'll take my 'ascended mod' SOTE, which has the most well designed interconnected map since ds1, and the most well designed bosses to date.
@@mikhailkalinin6536Please enjoy your large open world with nothing to explore and no good loot. I'm sure you'll be glad and you pick up the 999 cookbook
Why is the Lud and Zallen fight so hated? I know that it is a bad fight but why do people consider it some of the worst? Is it really just the run back that makes it so hated. When I fought them I killed them first try and didn’t even see the heal, so I don’t get what the big deal is.
Run back is a huge contributor, but even on it's own it can be bullshit if Lud and Zallen do simultaneous attacks where if you dodge one, you'll get roll caught by the second. Then there's the laziness factor. Its just two Aavas, that's your reward for managing to get through Frigid Outskirts.
I love how, despite the community never agreeing with anything, the dlc rankings always end up with artorias in #4 and the top 3 being shuffled around based on preferences.
At least we can all see the gap between the 2 halves of the list 🤝
@@joaoluizkfsantos8392 Funny because imo top 3 are TOH > AOTA > TRC > the rest..
@@davidborned Yeah, your opinion is valid too.
For me, even though ds1 is my least favourite of the series, i think that artorias is top 3, while ringed city is top 4, artorias of the abyss might not shine on areas ( though magicat didn't do ooacile enought justice, there's a good amount of side exploration there ) but artorias' DLC is a turning point for the better on fromsoftware's boss design, this is the first time fromsoftware really did amazing, fast paced bosses ( you can count OaS, not a fan of the gigajank or old king allant ) and the first truly good dragon of the series ( though his hitboxs are really bad ), it makes ds1 to have something worth playing after the first half of the game, it really needed this DLC
Ringed city though, DS3 was kinda of amazing before ringed city, soo it wasn't as important to improve the game, and the content: the heap is decently good, though the swamp part is anoying, but considering people thought it would only be the city, is a nice extra with the best fromsoftware gank fight at the end of it, but the city... Is amazing, until we very quickly get to that swamp ( and the damn 6 herald Knight gank in the staircase ), which is kinda bad, specially with that giant thya summons archers, in fact, the enemies on the ringed city DLC are bad, with the huge exception that is the amazing ringed city Knight, then we get a tiny yet kinda bad catacomb part and the area is over ! Not before fighting midir first time around, halflight church is horrible, but midir is still the best dragon for now ( i need to give CURSE YOU BAYLE a couple more runs to see if my opinion still holds up ), gael is the perfect ending, the best boss ever made in the videogame industry IMO, but yeah, ds3 dlc has a lot of ups and downs
@@jajasking9652 I get what you are saying about innovation in Artorias of the Abyss and it should certainly carry some weight but at the end of the day I’d much rather go through The Ringed City than Artorias of the Abyss in 2024.
I also understand the missed potential about the area. The Ringed City looks gorgeous when we arrive and yet we barely get to explore it, but even then I think the area is quite good, better than any area in AOTB imo. There are some cool moments in the swamp like the dragonslayer armor which drops the set and the silver knight which drops a big ass hammer. The moment just before the catacomb part where you fight the knights and can see Midir in the distance is pretty cool too. Not saying it’s perfect by any means but there are a lot of redeeming moments. And we get three S tier bosses.
@@davidbornednostalgia bias is wild
Magicat please don't give him his family back
Hah hah hah I will not...
lol
Magicat please give me my family back
Don't worry, you will soon join them...
@@magicat7356😧
Fr
@@magicat7356 😧
@@magicat7356 😧
Honestly SOTE and Old Hunters both are 10/10 for me. But I am inclined to give the edge to The Old Hunters, just cause Bloodborne would feel incomplete without it, while ER without SOTE is still an incredible game.
Like you said, Old Hunters saved Bloodborne.
Saying that TOH saved Bloodborne is an exaggeration, yes it’s better than the base game, but even without TOH, it’s still my GOTY 2015
@@davidborned Oh yes, by in saved BB what I meant was wherever BB was lacking TOH picked up the slack. In Bossss amd weapon variety department, BB was kinda lacking, and TOH more than picked up any slack.
@@aayushdasgupta9754nothing about bb base game weapons were lacking
@@JTarnished They were cool and new but iirc a major complain was that there were too few of them. Like iirc Base Game had 13 weapons, and like Beast Claw is almost always used with the DLC Beast transformation.
Some like tonitrus' other form was just an electric buff.
On the other hand atleast to me dLC weapons felt much much cooler. While Saw Spear and Cleaver might be ol' reliable, it's the DLC weapons which I usually aim for in repeat playthroughs.
@@davidbornedBloodborne boss wise sucked without Old Hunters. Gherman for me personally was the only good base game boss and i’ve seen so many others say the same thing
Honestly Shadow of the Erdtree might be one of my favorite DLCs ever made, I enjoyed myself thoroughly through everything (except Gaius), and I found myself being one of the few people who actually enjoyed Consort Radahn. He's one of the hardest fights I've ever fought but rarely did it piss me off, which is a rarity of hardest bosses (like S-Ranking Saltbaker eugh). Messmer is absolutely one of From's best bosses ever but everything about Midra made him my favorite. Amazing how they made Elden Ring 2 an addon to Elden Ring 1, truly a great position for the future of FromSoft
Did you play The Old Hunters?
Probably because I had to play through the main game just before because I forgot I started ng+, but I’ve found myself burning out in this DLC. Thoroughly enjoyed Rellana and Messmer, not sure about Midra and Radahn as I haven’t fought them yet. But I’ve found myself just waiting to get to the bosses
@@miketatum9321 No but I can tell it would also be one of my favorites if I did
Ive played thru like 4 times now and gaius is lowkey getting enjoyable now that ive figured him out
@@miketatum9321 no play station
The crown dlc's will always be amazing to be me for the fun level design and cool lore of the kingdoms. All wrapped in tragedy and showing the failings of each king uniquely.
Old Iron King had no reason being that low. The fact that it's before Ariandel is baffling smh.
Regarding SotE not improving boss quality compared to the base game as much as the other souls games, I’m not really sure there’s much they could do in that department. Fights like Mohg, Radagon, Maliketh, Malenia, and Godfrey were about as complex as the Elden Ring combat system could handle imo.
Yea, tbh Messmer is the only boss that matches that complexity. Even the challenge boss(Radahn) isn’t really complex, his difficulty just comes from ridiculously high scaling while heavily limiting player dps. Once you learn how to avoid 2-3 goofy attacks in phase 2 you pretty much have the fight mastered.
While I do agree that few bosses could exceed the ones you mentioned in terms of quality and mechanical complexity in the confines of the game, I feel like SotE could’ve had a boss or two on the same level as the bosses you mentioned. Like I found Prutrescent knight and metyr underwhelming for remembrance fights for example. Same with gaius. I would’ve gladly had those fights replaced with one or two more Messmer-level bosses. I do agree on the whole tho. That’s why I think fromsoft should start making far more substantial changes to this formula as much as I love elden ring
@@epsilon1372I would rather have a DLC that gives me 4 S tier bosses and 7 good bosses as well
@@bigsmall2842rellana is definitely as complex as maliketh
@@debater452 i dont think there are 4 s tier bosses and 7 good bosses. i dont think putrescent knight, metyr, or gaius are good fights, just very meh. Also this is definitely just my opinion, but messmer and bayle are the only S tier fights with relanna amd midra potentially being S tier on later playthroughs. I think the meh bosses i just mentioned did not feel like proper remembrance bosses and they were not up to my standards i expected from fromsoft. I think the good/amazing bosses we did get were great and met my standards, but the meh bosses didnt even feel cool (apart from metyr's lore after you beat her) which was disappointing because even some of the bad remembrance bosses in the base game like fire giant felt like spectacles you could enjoy if you tried
You made the video too early. If I were you, I'd hold out till the Sekiro DLC finally releases. Its only a matter of time.
Video would have never be made then
🤡
"One day it'll happen" everyone sighed in unison
We all have a yearning to go Hollow for content. Tis the Fromsoft curse.
the dlc they already gave us is all we are getting. Some sort of Sekiro sequel is possible, but there's no way they are going to go back to a 2019 game after releasing two full games and a dlc to one of them
I feel like you hit the nail on the head as to why The Old Hunters still edges SotE, it makes Bloodborne feel so complete and truly elevates it as an overall work in a way that SotE, despite its immense scope and incredible additions, does not (or only slightly does, perhaps). I think the rankings in general are really well-thought out and I believe my own ranking would be very similar, though I'd lean into talking about the narrative impact and the weight of the lore as a larger point too. Great video with many well articulated points!
Old Hunters was one of the first DLCs I’ve bought for a souls game, and it’s the best in my opinion, having some of the best moments in the series
Lawrence slander will not be tolerated
@@wolfthorn7243Lawrence fans trying to convince you that it’s not just Cleric Beast with lava:
@@internetguypersonHis second phase is completely different to cleric beast.
The real culprit here is the cathedral ward reuse, the living failures being failures and the first half of Laurence being the cleric beast on fire and also having the same model as cleric beast. Can't see how anyone can put old Hunter's over shadow of the erdtree considering these.
@@Pedro_Le_Chefwell you see they played toh and concluded peak
@@Pedro_Le_Chef The cathedral ward reuse? Did you not understand why it was called hunters nightmare? Even then, the paths, enemies and level design are completely different with references to the normal cathedral ward just to make it clear to the player what the hunters nightmare is. The hunters running around with boom hammers, saifs and renjis zabimaru killing beasts is badass man, you’re tweaking. Hunters nightmare SLAPS. The hunters nightmare is a perfect example of how you create a new area based off an old area without making it feel same old
As for Lawrence/living failures, if we are complaining about partially reusing a boss and a mediocre boss, then we gotta call out that Shadow of the erdtree has Metyr, golden hippo and the commander gaius, all who are straight up ASS. Living failures is just a weird gimmick fight. Those 3 are genuinely terrible to play against. And that’s not mentioning the mental torment called the final boss
Old Hunters is the best DLC simply because of how much it improved the entire game as a whole. I dont think SOTE really changed my opinion of Elden Ring for better or worse.
I agree, but I think that speaks more to the quality of Elden Ring's base game than anything. I love Bloodborne, but it's really carried by its DLC. Elden Ring would have been regarded as one of Fromsoft's finest games even without Shadow of the Erdtree.
SoTE made me drop Elden Ring on my favorite game rankings lol.
It made it worse
@@FSVR54 radahn moment.
git gud
@@anukthotawatta982 Nothing to do with that. Wasn't interested in more open world. Should've been old school style, no torrent in DLC
The well in the old Hunter dlc is what makes it my second favorite
Genuinely one of the harder bosses in the DLC lol
Only died to Kos more times than in that well 😂
Shhhhhh, we never speak of that God forsaken place...
🦈 with🪝 and 🦈 made me die more than OoK if I were to be honest 😅
And Laurence
Damn dude you freaking nailed it with that SOTE Brief review and ranking; that's EXACTLY what I think about this whole DLC and besides that Bloodborne is absolutely better even it is shorter
I played Erdtree first then finally played Bloodborne and it's DLC just to see what the hype was about and after experiencing it I have you agree with you. I still love all of them though, Fromsoft does not miss with their DLCs.
Heyo! Everyone was holding their breaths waiting to see which dlc would be number 2 lol! Not a choice I agree with but a choice I can and will respect. Personally they're not even close for me and SotE DID make ER a better game for me overall but again, I can understand why it's number 2. Both SotE and Old Hunters are 10/10 for me anyway so I'm pretty happy either way. All the choices overall were fair and explained well in a reasonable matter. Also plus points for "respecting your audience" this time. Also both video ideas would be great but personally I'd like to see how you think SotE bosses stack up against base game bosses and HOPEFULLY we end this constant back and forth in the server with it, so that's what I hope you do for the next video. Anyway, good job. This was a great and fun to watch video.
I feel like Belurat and Enir Ilim are better when considered parts of the same legacy dungeon (same as Miquella's Haligtree and Elphael). The first part is obviously scaled for immediate access, while the second part is scaled for endgame, but when you play on NG+, the DLC difficulty is more or less consistent, since the game assumes you've carried the Scadutree Blessing levels over.
Playing the two as one area is so much more fun. This is probably the less intuitive way to play Belurat, as it requires you yo have burned the thorns first, but it's the superior experience. Removing the teleport after Romina could've gone a long way to hammer that point home.
Except you can't really consider them the same parts because one is an early location while the other is in the extreme end of the dlc.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 except he literally explained how you can cause they're directly connected
@ them being physically connected doesn’t mean anything because you don’t get access to one until the end of the dlc
@Sephirothkingdom782 the whole point of his comment was you can experience them as one dungeon in New game plus because the scaling makes it viable to explore both at the same time. What are you on about? Everyone knows they're do seperate dungeons rn. But it's much better to explore them as one
Shadow of the Erdtree is probably my pick for number 1. While Old Hunters has more quality and way less downsides, it also offers way less overall. It's more compact, tightly designed enjoyable experience, but that massive scale of SOTE and the amount of quality content it has makes it win in my eyes. Sure SOTE has way more flaws, but it's that amount of ups that makes it win in my book. I just find Bloodborne's enemy and boss design simpler to the point I get more kick out of ER's bosses. Most things from DS3 and BB feel rather simple now because of how ER handled boss designs.
For me quality>quantity
I don't agree with the enemy design point at all. Belurat literally had basic hollowed npcs but with a shadow filter for the whole area, even shadow keep had this same issue at times. None of the enemies were on the level of the old hunters from the hunters nightmare or the sharks from fishing hamlet. I find the percentage of good vs bad bosses to be a lot better in old hunters too.
for me quality over quantity. The Old Hunters is consistently peak FromSoft area and boss design (minus Living Failures or maybe Laurence). Despite its 10-15 hour runtime it has some of the best enemies, combat encounters, and especially bosses in the whole series.
Also, the new weapon roster genuinely changes the entire game, and most of them easily warrant a whole playthrough with them.
@@catwiffhat4274 exactly. Some people just do the dlc to get the pizza cutter and do a whole playthrough with it.
Also I think Laurence is pretty good. The only real issue I have with him is his reused moves in phase 1 but he’s fun to fight regardless so it doesn’t really matter. His runback is pretty bad too ig. I like how phase 2 focuses a lot on positioning too.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 The thing is I agree, quality over quantity. I just find SOTE's quality to be higher. Old Hunters balance of quality is better, but the ups of SOTE go higher in my eyes. Mainly because I find Bloodborne's enemy and boss design somewhat simpler by comparison, so even if Old Hunters does quality much more frequently, it still doesn't go as far as Sote does. And then you add the amount of content and Sote becomes a clear winner in my eyes.
@@highvoltage7559 yea sure that’s fair I just didn’t find SOTE quality to be higher tbh. I don’t really think a single boss matched the level of someone like Ludwig and not a single enemy matched the level of versatility of the old hunters. The weapons I also found to be generally a lot better in old hunters. People make entire gameplay slots just to play with the pizza cutter and I think that says a lot for a game with such fewer weapons. I think Bayle was the best boss in the dlc and in the whole game in fact but even he doesn’t match the highs of a Ludwig imo. I understand the bosses aren’t as complex but I think that’s for the better because, as they are currently, they perfectly compliment bloodborne’s combat in a way that a boss like consort of miquella doesn’t.
Also yea SOTE has way more content but it doesn’t seem as impressive since so many areas give off the illusion that there’s a lot but there really isn’t such as cerulean coast, the entire grassy sections before romina, jagged peak, and every finger area. Abyssal woods too, I don’t understand why they couldn’t add more interesting enemy encounters than just rats.
I respect your opinion, but I personally think Shadow of the Erdtree has surpassed the Old Hunters.
For me SOTE has added 3 all time great bosses to FromSoft’s catalogue, those being Midra, Messmer, and Bayle. Messmer and Bayle in particular are both up there with Gael and Isshin as some of my favourite Soulsborne bosses of all time and definitely surpass any boss from the Old Hunters in my mind.
I think you also undersold the quality of the weapons, level design, and soundtrack in SOTE.
The soundtrack has some of my new favourite boss osts of all time. The osts for Bayle and Messmer both completely took my breath away the first time I heard them. The ost for Midra also deserves a mention for being one of the creepiest and most eerie tracks in the game.
The weapon catalogue is easily on par with the Old Hunters since it added 7 new weapon types almost all of which are equally viable for both PVE and PVP. They are all also very fun to use with the Great Katanas, Backhand Blades, and Messmer’s Spear in particular being some of my favourite weapons in all of Elden Ring.
In terms of level design, I think Shadow Keep is basically a much larger and better designed version of Research Hall from the Old Hunters. It may actually be one of my favourite areas in the entire franchise with the amount of branching paths and unique platforming/puzzle segments mixed into it. Ancient Ruins of Rauh and Jagged Peak were also a ton of fun to explore and are easily some of my favourite areas in the entirety of Elden Ring due to their insane verticality and environmental storytelling.
Overall, while I did love the Old Hunters and understand why you put it at number 1. I do think SOTE is the more fun expansion for me.
Shadow Keep alone is the size of the Old Hunters DLC.
ER fanboys try to not cope and seethe cuz Bloodborne is the better game challenge: Impossible
@@mithex8414 it's all subjective. Stop acting goofy 💀
BB fans coping about the fact that their game is B tier @@mithex8414
@@mithex8414the undeniable is that there both bad Elden ring and bloodborne, they both lack in quality and bosses are mid in both games.
I might be glazing but old hunters is still the best easily soe was fire tho
W
Not easily, but i still agree, old hunters is better, even if i don't like fishing halmet and the hall area as much as some other people do ( fishing halmet is still great though, the problem with the hall IMO is how ganky it can get and the stupidly high damage of the basic enemies there ) btw, love the past ? Version of yharnam in rhe DLC, the enemies are top too, the bosses are soo good, ok, even living failures are kinda decent ( ironic they are failures, as they were the ones that ended up being sucesfull at contacting ans receiving an answer from the cosmos ), i would have liked that one a lot more than celestial emisaries, lawrence is good, the first phase doesn't quite mix up things enought comparated to cleric beast, second phase is cool though, but it feels like it lacks moves on that phase, the other 3 though, top 10 best bosses ever made, i think people habe praised them enought
@@jajasking9652yeah Living Failures is surprisingly not that bad imo. Whenever I've fought them I feel like the fight is pretty manageable, and I always have time to kill one before more spawn in. And their phase transition and music makes up for any shortcomings, what an awesome moment. They're definitely not a great boss by any means, but much better than other multi-enemy bosses like Shadows of Yharnam, Godskin Duo, etc. (I've never played Dark Souls so idk about multi-enemy bosses there; I hear from people that Ornstein and Smough are either really good or overrated so idk. From the footage of the Lothric fight, that duo fight looks really cool too)
I found myself just as dissapointed with the enemy variety in Shadow of the Erdtree. With the more compact and stacked layout of the map, I expected each area to have at least one unique DLC enemy. What we got instead was the same fodder ghost people in almost every corner of the open world and legacy dungeon, curseblades, bloodfiends, gravebirds, and Messmer Soldiers everywhere. There's also way too much content reused from the base game. I was not happy when I saw another Deathrite Bird, but this time surrounded by annoying ads. But then again, it makes up for this with its incredible map layout, which is like putting the first half of Dark Souls 1 in the open world formula. There is much less wasted space, even in the emptier corners of the map, because figuring out all the ways the map branches out and connects takes center stage. The minor dungeons are also a huge step-up from the base game, and stumbling upon Demi-Human Yoda jumping around like a crackhead, parrying my attacks and spamming magic attacks was one of my most memorable moments from the expansion. So in terms of exploration, it's two steps forward (map layout and minor dungeons) and one step back (lack of enemy variety).
But each area had new enemies...
@@stefanostsougkranis5851 99% sure every new enemy type in this DLC can be encountered before progressing to Scadu Altus, minus the Divine Warrior guys
@@Yharimsi went to belurat very early so most of it was unique and still you dont see the tiny scorpions and big shadow dudes much outside of it. Shadow keep has fire knights, pretty sure theyre unique to it. And enir ilim has unique remixed lion knights and im also pretty sure the enemies that summon aoe’s at your feet are only seen there. Thats why i said im ok with the variety in legacy dungeons. But theres only 3 of them and 2 are pretty short. In abyssal woods, midras manse and ancient ruins of rauh it was noticeable and disappointing to me
We aren’t paying attention to how much Old Hunters reuses so dang many enemies from base game, like 60-70% of the enemies in the DLC are from base game.
- Male Yharnam villagers.
- Winter Lanterns before Orphan.
- The same Yharnam crows.
- Dogs but now covered in blood.
- Humanoid Beasts but scared now.
- The Witch close to Ludwig fog gate.
- The crazy old wheelchair guys.
- Church Servant guys in Research Hall.
- Bloodstarved Beast reused.
- Cainhurst Castle lickers.
- The same mice in Research Hall.
- Lawrence is Cleric Beast with fire & a very bad phase 2.
- 1st DLC area is literally Cathedral Ward but worse.
I think Magicat forgot to mention that but somehow mentioned it for SOTE which is unfair criticism.
@@HeyTarnishedbecause those are never the main enemies. Mainly in hunters nightmare you fight old hunters and the giants. And calling it a reused cathedral ward is silly, it has completely different aesthetics and theme. Research hall you mostly fight the patients. Theres like one church guy lol. And fishing hamlet you again mainly fight fish people. In abyssal woods you mainly fight rats.
Incredible choices Magicat, thank you for blessing us with a video today!
I honestly cant pick a favourite from ringed city, SOTE and old hunters, theyre all almost perfect dlcs
I lowkey like Crown of the Ivory King more than Ashes of Ariendel and Crown of the Sunken King. I love just about everything about this dlc besides frigid outskirts, which I always skip nowadays.
its lore is also amazing which helps
That means that you like crown of the old iron king more than the rest of the smaller DLC
Iron King > Ivory King > Sunken King is my ranking.
@@calbon2994 ashes lf ariandel is honestly the worst dlc. Incomplete story, gank fest level layout, 1-2 hours of content and 1 decent boss. Paying 20 dollars for that is a travesty. Ashes +Ringed city is around the same size as old hunters but is double the price.
man I wonder how Lies of P's DLC will turn out..
Could you please do the areas ranking next ? Would love to see it ! Also your videos are amazing so thanks a lot for all of them !
Who would not agree that the ringed city isn’t the best area before Elden Ring came out? That’s not a hot take at all
"Shadow of the Erdtree adds one boss to my favorites of all-time list, maybe 2, while The Old Hunters add three". This comment bothers me because it suggests Maria deserves to even be in the same breath as Rellana. Maria, the boss you can stunlock for 40% of their health. Only thing Maria has on Rellana is build-up and cutscene, so everything besides the boss fight.
Besides that, I think people underrate how good the boss line-up is in SotE. Messmer, Rellana, Midra, Bayle, Putrescent Knight, Dancing Lion, Romina and Scadutree Avatar are all good to great bosses. And Bellurat and Enir-ilim are connected, between that and The Shadow Tower and the Manse it has enough Legacy Dungeon content to compete with TOH. I agree that TOH is more important to Bloodborne than SotE is to Elden Ring though. Old Hunters has 11 of the 26 right-hand weapons and much needed great late-game areas and bosses.
Doesn't matter what you say, bloodborne fanboys stay meatriding that game
Cause Maira has that story factor the only reason why ren however you say her name isn’t the best boss is cause she has no story and you can even skip her
@3:21 that's only if you use a bunch of smelter wedges before fume knight, but don't find any others. There's enough smelter wedges in the dlc, and chances are if you are exploring thoroughly enough to use the first batch up, you're going to find the second batch as well
Great video, Magicat! My personal ranking is:
1. The Old Hunters
2. Shadow of the Erdtree
3. The Ringed City
4. Artorias of the Abyss
5. Crown of the Old Iron King
6. Crown of the Sunken King
7. Ashes of Ariandel
8. Crown of the Ivory King
I'd say The Old Hunters is probably my favorite DLC / expansion pack in all of gaming, although Cryptic Passage from Blood (1997) is not far behind. The best DLCs in my opinion not only feature some of the best content in their given games but also elevate those games far beyond the level of the base game. I believe The Old Hunters did just that.
Honestly Bloodbornes DLC really does carry the entire game, Bloodborne itself is kinda mid but the DLC makes it incredible, so maybe BB should be at top just for that, not that it’s better than SoTE but that it’s that much better than it’s base game
Fair Enough Number 1 Magical Cat..
I'm going back and forth between the top 2 all the time..
My biggest complaint about SOTE is how small Rauh is. When I first took the teleporter and got a sneak peak, my reaction was "wow, this is beautiful, easily my fav zone". Then coming back after Shadowkeep I feel I ran through everything so quickly, when I defeated the final boss of the zone I was like "that can't be it, right?".
Crown of the Ivory King was sick tbh my 3rd fave dlc behind Old Hunters & Ringed City, only reason it got ranked this low is the horrendous co op section
I'd love a ranking of all the remembrance bosses(+Bayle!)
the old hunters has 3 great bosses (ludwig, lady maria and kos) SOTE has Messmer, Bayle, Midra and Rellana (probally romina, dancing lion and radahn too) the old hunters also repeat enemies (the dogs for example) and the shadow keep is better than any area the old hunters, how is this better?
Because fishing hamlet is low key better then the keep
@@Igorsbackagain-c6qHow
great ranking. I still have old hunters at 1 too. I have iron king in top 5 tho cuz of the great verticality, visuals, and best bosses out of the 3 crown dlcs imo
Orphan theme is still great. I get why you say it gets overshadowed because all other 4 bosses basically have 10/10 soundtracks but personally I think Orphan’s theme holds up with the others. I love the contrast between phase 1 and 2 and how it fits with how the Orphan behaves.
Y does Magicat always sound like he's at gunpoint
I would love to see you talk about the art style of this games, the elden ring dlc and the old hunters are just pure art
Smooth video as always, cheers from Germany
SotE and Old Hunters are evenly matched for me. Deciding between the two is impossible. One has so much great content that it blows everything else out of the water, while the other is a flawless, intricately designed, yet fairly small and contained addition to an already immaculate game. This boss quality of both DLCs are vastly better then their base games, the area design is better, and the lore is at its peak. At the end of the day, it really comes down to what I’m feeling in the moment.
Wow, I’m truly stunned with shadow of the red tree being second lmao. This dlc has done more for me than multiple modern $70 games, and it’s only a dlc. And everything, truly everything, had only been improved upon. The bosses, the level design, the dungeons, the weapons, spells, talismans, it felt like I was playing elden ring for the first time again. I love the old hunters as well, but shadow of the erdtree could very much serve as a sequel to elden ring, it’s so good.
Nah many people were disapointed, it's good but not universally loved
@@mehmetvursavas5922not really, vocal minority on social media reflects that but not actual player base and overall reviews. The DLC is not perfect at all, but if you think it’s disappointing, I don’t even know what you would consider impressive at that point.
Idk y I like this channel sm. I dont even play souls games, I’ve only ever played a decent chunk of Elden ring and a bit of hollow knight
Great video. My list goes something like this:
8. Crown of the ivory king: it was just very tiny compared to most other dlcs. Eleum Loyce is very good before fighting Aava but it becomes a chore when you have to find all knights. Aava and Burnt ivory king were pretty good but not among my favourite bosses ever. And I dread going to the Outskirts
7. Ashes of Ariandel: very tiny dlc, again, but the Painted world is a very good area on its own and Sister Friede is among my top 10 best bosses ever
6. Crown of the iron king: Brume tower can be sometimes frustrating with the ganks but it's a very creative level with a lot of unique enemies. Fume knigh and Sir Alonne are pretty much the peak of DS2. But the iron passage and the memories of the king were just awful
5. Crown of the sunken king: amazing main area, pretty good main bosses but the Cave of the dead can kiss my ass
4. The ringed city: very good bosses (aside from Halflight), very good areas and it ended perfectly the DS trilogy
3. Artorias of the abyss: this DLC pretty much saves the endgame of DS1. Even if the areas aren't the best, it pretty much peaks in every other aspects
2. SOTE: such a big and fantastic expansion, they could have just made ER 2 with this but I'm glad they didn't. If it has less empty zones it would be easly my favourite
1. TOH: this dlc is just peak in every aspects. Lots 9f amazing weapons, areas and there aren't any bad bosses. It also elevated BB from one of my favourites souls games to MY favourite of them ever!!
Petition to add aspect of the crucible: centaur and tongue, the death sorcery spell from the catacombs which is like an assault rifle, and more dragon communion and frenzy spells.
It's hard for me to decide but for now I'd say SOTE for the amount of content you get. Perhaps I'll change my mind once I'm done replaying it again. Also I would definitely like to see you rank all the base game plus dlc bosses together before an area ranking.
Old Hunters for me is top 1 too. While playing SOTE for the first time, it really took me a LOOONG time to get me impressed with the enemies and weapons, I feel like it doesnt have a good first impression in that regard, add the lack of good rewards when you explore the empty areas, its a waste of time. But with The Old Hunters, it was instantly impressive to me in how many good things you can find right away (enemies, unique weapons, fantastic music, memorable bosses). Also in Bloodborne's DLC you can actually find useful items to upgrade the weapons from the base game. In SOTE I just found things like smithin stones +3 lol that shit does nothing when you have all bell bearings.
Old Hunters single handedly saved bloodborne's boss quality. Like the difference between the bosses of Old Hunters and base game cannot be understated. It's one of the few areas that bloodborne comes up short.
SOTE does feel like a fitting expansion to the perfect game that Elden Ring was. Exploration was a blast, and the bosses are some of my favorites they have ever done. I think SOTE has finally given Elden Ring bosses the edge over the perfection of DS3.
Ringed City was so close to being the perfect DLC for DS3, but I wish they went a bit more on the city itself instead of spending time on half-light. While Gael, Midir and Deamon Princes are arguably the best in their respective categories (Bayle edges out Midir for the Best Dragon fight for me, but it's totally up to debate they are both perfect). However, DS3 wasn't lacking in good bosses, it was lacking in good bloodborne level exploration and level layout. Therefore, it cannot beat SOTE as it's just not able to defeat the amount of quality and quantity that SOTE brings.
The way I see it, SOTE is the best DLC, but TOH improves BB way more than the former improves ER. Gives BB the coolest assortment of weapons in the series, some well-needed theme variety, and an actually good boss lineup
The best DLC Sekiro - Journey to the West.
From Software is gonna release it anytime now
I completely agree that Bloodborne needs Old Hunters, that’s an amazing take. SOTE and Old Hunters are tied for me at the moment, still have to think about it for a bit :)
Crown of old iron king was literally a top 3 dlc before SotE came out 😭
It was top 3 when ds2 came out
Never played bloodborne and demon souls because of ps exclusive but i would say Sote is the best just because of the sheer size and content. Thats one of elden rings biggest strenght and also biggest weakness on the same time
yeah i get that scadutree fragments were a necessity but i wish they had done it more like sekiro where you get items by exploration and upgrade materials by beating dungeon bosses and main bosses rather than just explore. i couldnt care less about the open world design cause im much more of a linear progression with inner connectivity type of guy and exploration without directions is tedious asf for me. i wish i had more incentive to fight the side bosses too cause i ended up beating like two of them besides the hippos and one of them was by accident when i was just trying out the deflecting hardtear. i'm not really interested in anything but the designated major areas like castle ensis or shadow keep (which are phenomenal btw) but the long drawn out open world segments just piss me off. 6/10.
Old hunters it’s amazing and has nothing bad in my opinion besides living failures. It’s not the worst fight, but it’s okay because you forget all about it once you fight Lady Maria right after. Shadow of the Erd tree had some beautiful environments. Especially all the glowing blue flower area. I think Dark souls 3’s DLC’s have some of the best bosses in the whole soulsborne genre, though. $15 was worth it just for Sister Friede’s fight tbh. The satisfaction I felt after beating her was worth it in my book. I’ve spent $15 on a lot worse before.
SOTE was a fucking masterpiece. But Old Hunters still my fave too
Before the DLC, while Elden Ring to me is an S tier game, I did not count it among my favorites. It is now after Shadow of the Erdtree.
Finally someone puts some respect on the sunken king dlc
great list, i personaly like iron king more than Ashes of ariandel and artorias, the brume tower is on my top three best areas from DS.
agree on your first choice, the old hunters its the best
The amount of mechanics, weapons, spells, bosses, areas, and other things that added SOTE can't be compared with old hunters. But well, bloodborne always will be the best in the eyes of the nostalgia I think. Also, what a disrespect to Iron king, the best dlc from ds2 and it definitely added more than ashes of ariandel that only had 2 bosses and one of them is f tier.
For me would be:
1 - SOTE
2 - Old hunters
3 - The ringed city
4 - Artorias of the abyss
5 - Iron king
6 - Ariandel
7 - Sunken king
8 - Ivory king
Your ashes criticism would be true but unfortunately friede is better than anything in all 3 ds2 dlcs combined
I'm sorry but the Old Iron King dlc being that low and even below Ariandel is f4cking baffling.
1st time watching one of your videos and I really enjoyed it especially the end because you summarized my exact thoughts on Shadow of the Erdtree and Old Hunters Bloodborne was my favorite game before ER and is still to this day a phenomenal game in my mind but the DLC took it from a fantastic game to a perfect game for me whereas Shadow of the Erdtree is just more ( and quite good additions ) of a perfect game so the quality might be better but it’s less impactful.
I gotta complete it a 2nd time.
Fair ranking!
Fromsoft PLEASE grant me a sekiro dlc and my life is yours
i will be the sacrifice if my brethren can get the sekiro dlc
Armored core dlc too
1.Old hunters
2.SOTE and Artorias tie
3.Ivory king
4.Ringed city
5.Sunken king
6.Iron king
7.Ashes of ariandel(20 dollars for this is crazy)
Fuck yeah, Old Hunters is the true GOTY
And no one would chance My mind about Ludwig being the Best fucking BOSS in the series
Old Hunters dlc is definitely peak From Software dlc. Everything is perfect.
Never let bro cook again
1 Sote
2 Old Hunters
3-6 Are somewhere in between I'm not sure about exact placements
7 Artorias of the abyss
8 Ashes of Ariandel
Ashes has too little going for it imo, it's way too short and what is there stuffers in quality because it can't cook for long enough for me to get super invested.
The level design is on par with the rest of ds3 but that doesn't say much.
Friede is good, an s tier boss but not in my top 25 so she doesn't raise the dlc above last place.
Grave tender sucks.
Artorias dlc is super iconic in terms of bosses and lore but it doesn't compare to the other dlcs overall.
The biggest strength of DS1 (compared to other souls games) is it's interconnected looping world and level design, but in terms of level design the dlc is not on the level of the base game and it's far too small to loop anything so it loses its biggest strengths and instead falls back on improved boss quality.
And the bosses are better then DS1 base game but they don't compare to the newer games bosses so it falls short.
No ds1 boss is in my top 50.
DS2 dlcs are great in terms of level design and gimmicks, they do everything very well and don't fall short in any category exept bosses where like half aren't that impressive, some are shit and only half are good/great.
Ivory King and Fume Knight enter my top 50 so they are good.
DS2 dlc invaders are also by far the most fun and interesting invaders in all of soulsborne catalog and are the only invaders worth talking about.
Maldron the Assassin and Holy Knight Aurheim come to my mind immediately when thinking of amazing invaders.
Very sad they never brought those types of invaders back to the newer titles 😞.
The Ringed City has some absolute banger bosses with Midir, Demon Princes and Gael.
Half-Light being required to beat the dlc is a crime.
The dlc does great in every category exept the level design.
It's beautiful, has amazing art style and direction.
The music is awsome, the lore is good and the esthetic of the rigned city is so cool.
To bad it sucks to play through it, it's mostly a straight line with a couple branching paths that never loop back.
Fighting anything there (that isn't a boss) is not engaging and I'd rather run past everything.
When the level design is compared to DS2 dlcs it isn't half as good so which i prefer has to do with if i prefer good levels or good bosses, I can't decide so i have them all tied.
The Old Hunters is much better then any dlc before it and i have a big gap between it and the rest.
It simply has everything going for it with it not lacking in any category.
The bosses are great, not as good as the ringed city but still great.
There are 5 bosses in the old hunters and none of them are even close to as bad as Half-light, so that is good.
The atmosphere, music, lore, bosses, level design, secrets and everything else is great in the dlc.
Nothing more to say just goated.
Sote is the best dlc imo, it has the best of everything, the best music (subjective as the rest of my list), the best level design by far, the best/most secrets, the best map, the best bosses by far, and basically the best everything.
But not only does it do everything the best, it also has the most good stuff, instead of having 3 good bosses it has a dozen, instead of having a little bit of good level design it has a lot and a lot of it is optional as well, so if there is something you don't like, chances are you can skip it.
Unlike Half-Light.
I do like every dlc, even tho i said mostly negative things about ashes that's mostly to justify my reasons for putting it last and i don't dislike it at all.
If i had to re buy it now or never play ut again i would re buy it right away just so I'm clear, i still like all of the dlcs.
Also i lied Sote doesn't do everything the best, it's invaders suck compared to DS2 dlc invaders, the only cool thing red phantoms do in sote is talk and have voice lines but they suck to fight and have no cool gimmicks like DS2 invaders.
So sad they did that to invaders after DS2 😢.
I said sote added a dozen good bosses but i meant when compared to the best Elden Ring bosses.
Even Death Knight who is a random dungeon boss is a good-great boss when compared to non remembrance/older titles best bosses.
Bro is halflights biggest hater 💀💀 I agree with you tho
Is The Old Hunters better than the Armored Core VI new parts addition update though
Nope
wasnt impressed by shadow of erdtree honestly especially for $40 price tag, feels like a different game rather than building on the base game
also ends really abruptly, and doesnt feel like a good close to the elden ring IP, considering they said there would be no further dlc
bloodborne DLC will never be topped imo
Why would it be a close to the Elden ring ip when the base game ending exists? You kill the only other demigod what else would happen. And how is it not worth 40 dollars when it has over eleven new bosses and a bunch of areas. I know not every area has a ton in them but still. Also it definitely does improve problems from the base game, like the more complex map layout to discover or the improved side dungeons.
@@idontcare9661quality over quantity. empty areas with useless items and overtuned bosses
@@mehmetvursavas5922 it’s quality and quantity bro, you could argue that something like gauis or metyr aren’t amazing but Midra Messmer Bayle Rellana Dancing Lion were all amazing. They’re not overtunrd either, sounds like you just suck.
I think it's crazy to put Old Hunters above Shadow of the Erdtree simply because of the massive size difference. On replays you can simply skip the parts you don't enjoy which means you just have so much amazing content to enjoy.
I also think the argument of Shadow of the Erdtree not feeling like that much of a step-up of the base game is a weird criticism. Are we basing the quality of a DLC on the quality of their base game now? Elden Ring has mid level bosses that can contend with the high level bosses of other games. Bosses like Loretta, Godskin Apostle or Death Knights among others would be major bosses in any other Souls games. It's harder to be a step-up from Elden Ring's base game than it is to be a step-up from Bloodborne's base game.
I think the fact that SotE is a sequel disguised as a DLC should make it win by default. Imagine if we got a Bloodborne 2 as a "DLC".
SOTE (dlc only) > Bloodborne (base game only) in terms of bosses
No duh but we talking strictly dlcs
How is the descision betwen shadow of the erdtree and old hunter hard
Shadow of the erdtree has twice the quality and 10× the content of old hunters
Bro how can you put sote at 2. And old hunters at 1. thats criminal
Cry about it
Better content it’s not like it’s a easy decision
7.Sunken King (I didn't really enjoy the area, just the aesthetici of it)
6. Ash of Scamdel (if friede wasn't god tier boss easily worst dlc, even if Friede was great)
5.Ivory King
4.Artorias
3.Iron King (yall need to understand how GOOD this dlc feels compared to the main game, 2 great bosses and one amazing and unique area...somehow i never got ganged here)
2. Ringed City
1.SOTE (i have idk 30hr and I beaten just 4 bosses, took a break for like 1-2 weeks will continue whenever I feel like it but this dlc 180C my view on Er so it has the most worth, cant wait to fight Miquella for 10hr)
No BB cuz you aint caching me with a console, go pc or go home
It’s gonna get emulated soon pc bros can play my favorite game
@@Igorsbackagain-c6qreally?
Would have ranked Old Iron King at 5th personally, but fair enough
I would go like that:
7 Crown of the Ivory King 5/10
6 Ashes of Ariendel 5.5/10
5 Crown of the Sunken King 6/10
4 Crown of the Old Iron King 7/10
3 Artorias of the Abyss 8/10
2 Shadow of the Erdtree 9.5/10
1 Ringed City 9.5/10
(Havent' played Bloodborne DLC, but would probably be on the podium)
Play it
@@Igorsbackagain-c6q Boy do I want to, but I don't have a play station.
@@alexandrejust4771 it’s gonna get emulated by the end of the year let’s goo
SOTE is beyond comparing the rest of the DLCs. It’s like comparing an entire game to a small DLC. My favorite game is DS3… but ER dlc smashes BB and it’s not close.
Bloodborne needs more of its dlc than elden ring needs its honestly elden ring base I think it's much better than Bloodborne in general
I don't think so. Only issue with bloodborne's base game is the bosses, and even then it only has very few bad fights being one reborn, emissary, and witches. This isn't even a huge issue because, unlike sekiro or ds3, the game isn't as centered around boss fights to the point where it sacrifices level design and atmosphere for it the same way ds3 does. At worst it should only deduct like 1 out of 10 points from the game. Elden ring has a lot more issues imo, I think the weapons are generally a lot less satisfying to use, the areas don't feel that great aside from stormveil and leyndell, and the amount of reused bosses got tiring to the point where nearly every catacomb is useless. It's a bigger game but with that it has a lot more flaws, which hinder the game from being as replayable as something like BB. Areas like mountaintop and consecrated snowfield are also some of the worst cases of wasted potential tbh.
Bloodborne was already like a 9/10 game without the dlc because it's incredibly good atmosphere and weapon variety made up for the lack of great bosses at times. It's like extra credit used to patch up issues such as having to fight encounters such as witches of hemwick.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 I agree that elden ring has many flaws. but Bloodborne is not saved either. The second half seems terrible to me and not only in bosses, also areas, most of them are extremely linear and without many interesting things to explore compared to the first areas, the chalices are also extremely bad and most of the important bosses are repeated. or they place common enemies with a life bar, I could talk about many other issues, such as that it has the worst healing system in the saga and without its DLC the weapons are too few to stand on their own. I think Bloodborne needs its DLC more than any game in the series except Sekiro, which I think is its most perfect game overall.
@@mocho4487 also I don’t understand what is so bad about bloodbornes second half, especially when ER has stuff like mountaintop of the giants and consecrated snowfield (the most empty areas in the entire game). It’s not helped when they reuse cool bosses like astel and then proceed to have something as miserable as fire giant. Farum azula has the issue of poor enemy design despite having a decent layout. There’s 2 reused lich dragon type enemies too, along with the bird section that leads to the grace before the malekith fight. Also I don’t see your complaint about bosses either, the only bad fight(s) in the second half is one reborn and maybe micolash. Wet nurse is a good boss with an interesting moveset and an extremely cool design. Gehrman is top 3 final bosses in the series, and logarius is an incredibly good fight. Ebrietas is probably the best beast type enemy in the base game too. I don’t see your problem tbh.
Also no bloodborne doesn’t need the dlc the most. Ds1 literally has only a single great fight in the entirety of its base game, being orenstein and smough. Ds2 is in and of itself a mediocre game in nearly every aspect for the base game, and ds3 has nothing going for it apart from the boss fights and smooth combat which still doesn’t feel as smooth as bloodborne’s. The enemy design is good in ds3 too but it still falls short to bloodborne’s enemies even in the dlc, due to how varied and complex the old hunter enemies are.
Chalice dungeons are irrelevant. Removing them wouldn’t make the game any better. They’re like extra credit on a school assignment, you can get 2/10 on it and it would still help your grade because of those 2 points. It’s easy to ignore everything bad about the dungeons and only look at the good since they’re entirely optional.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 I don't consider the second half to be exceptionally bad compared to, say, DS1. but in my opinion it does not offer anything particularly interesting for that moment. neither in chief nor in zones Elden Ring has its nasty parts like the fire giant or the sacroderm duo, but I can still see large areas like Farum and Haligtree and with big or notable bosses like Maliketh, Placi, Mohg, Godfrey, Radagon, Malenia. In Bloodborne there is only the Gehrman Mergo, without being bad, is also not particularly exciting, even compared to the first bosses.
@@mocho4487 I don’t think gehrman or mergo are lacking compared to the first bosses. Ebrietas is there too, probably the best beast boss in the base game.
I also don’t think it’s fair to directly compare bloodborne boss quantity vs elden ring boss quantity because one is open world while the other isn’t, so it’s bound to have less bosses let alone less good bosses.
Its fine if you don’t find the latter areas engaging but imo I found them pretty enjoyable, especially the areas where you have your insight affect them such as the cathedral ward which also looks visually stunning
Ashes of Ariandel have better area than Ringed City imo.
Ringed City area are so disappointing. Supposed "city" are just street follow up with swamp just after Dreg Heap poison swamp, skeleton cave and ended with PVP bosses.
Does Dark Souls 3 need more way to PVP? Is invasion, red summon, undead match not enough already? That boss slot could've been an actual boss.
Does ashes have geal
TOH vs SOTE is very difficult. There are strong arguments for both. I think on average TOH has better bosses (although much fewer). Ludwig is still my favorite in the whole series. I think exploration is much better in SOTE. Everything is pretty much a straight path in TOH iirc besides the research hall. There weren't any moments in TOH that blew my mind quite like discovering that invisible wall in Shadow Keep that keeps going down and down to the Abyssal Woods. But thats not very fair since Elden Ring is an open world game and some might prefer that TOH is more linear. On average, I also think the weapons and new equipment are better in TOH but that's also hardly a fair comparison. I would also say I prefer the areas in SOTE. Abyssal Woods and Shadow Keep were the real highlights.
I think overall SOTE has some lower lows than TOH, but they never reached levels to me that I would consider bad. Like I would have definitely preferred two or three more enemy types instead of finding the fly McGees everywhere. No moments gave me the same highs as Orphan or Ludwig but Bayle and Midra come close and I actually really enjoyed learning the Consort fight. I would probably give it to SOTE overall but that could be recency bias
That’s quite the expression there …
Old hunters carries bloodborne
Nooooo
SOTE has way too many issues for me. More recycled bosses, more empty open world areas filled with basic boring enemies, Gaius and Radahn suck, etc. It's fantastic, but has all the same weaknesses as ER's main game. Ringed City easily beats it for me
No way is ringed city better. The old hunters imo is better than sote, but the ringed city is clearly weaker than both
Ringed city has a tiny fraction of the content and unique enemy types but you're crying about reused enemies in sote😂 fromsoft fans are so dense
@@BrandonKGold hunters and bloodborne as a whole is by far the most overrated thing they've Madd
Feels more like "least favourite to most favourite" cuz SOTE is the best DLC they made.
Completely subjective.
@@anthonyhertlein4629 I was referring to the title.
@@rakhoo5236 Yeah, the title is correct. In his opinion, they're the best, because quality of these games is subjective.
If there is objectivity, though, The Old Hunters is still better than SOTE.
Goatborne the goat hunters 🗣️
this is before watching. I think bloodborne might take the cake, namely because its way more consistent in terms of quality. ironically, i personally think the game is very overrated but the dlc is amazing. COncerning SotE, while it is amazing, i feel like i had unrealistic expectations in some aspects of the dlc (like the scope of some of the legacy dungeons and some of the remembrance fights) and i also feel like they fumbled in a few areas (a few fights suck or are underwhelming, a couple of areas felt a bit too empty). that being said, SotE is still amazing. i just probably have to give it another try at a certain point
Ruins of rauh is a torent accessible legacy dungeon
Old Hunters is a visual/atmosphere masterpiece with good mechanics. SOTE is a mechanical masterpiece with good visuals/atmosphere.
The level design of the SOTE map and the central legacy dungeons is second to none. Rellana is the most mechanically suffisticated boss they've ever designed. Neither of these were as well presented as The Fishing Hamlet or the Ludwig fight.
Rellana is such a fucking incredible boss fight. Such a shame that they shit the bed when it came to presentation. If they just gave her some dialogue or a cutscene or anything to present her as more than “random OP knight” she would’ve probably been my new favorite boss.
SOTE is a "mechanical masterpiece" if you like the Ascended Mod maybe
@Yharims please enjoy your straight corridor in fishing hamlet, and spamming roll until you pass out in ds3. I'll take my 'ascended mod' SOTE, which has the most well designed interconnected map since ds1, and the most well designed bosses to date.
@@mikhailkalinin6536Please enjoy your large open world with nothing to explore and no good loot. I'm sure you'll be glad and you pick up the 999 cookbook
Completely accurate in my eyes
I feel like I'm in the minority because I actually really like the graverobber gank squad
I have already seen this video like a million times
For me it's
ds2 ice
ds2 sunken
ds2 fume (mostly just bosses put it above the others)
ds3 ashes of ariandel
Elden Ring
ds3 Ringed city
Bloodborne
ds1
still old hunters and ringed city are the best dlc
I’m down for a remembrance boss ranking
Why is the Lud and Zallen fight so hated? I know that it is a bad fight but why do people consider it some of the worst? Is it really just the run back that makes it so hated. When I fought them I killed them first try and didn’t even see the heal, so I don’t get what the big deal is.
Run back is a huge contributor, but even on it's own it can be bullshit if Lud and Zallen do simultaneous attacks where if you dodge one, you'll get roll caught by the second. Then there's the laziness factor. Its just two Aavas, that's your reward for managing to get through Frigid Outskirts.
this vid made me want to play bloodborne even harder. Too bad sony hate making easy money
Are you forgetting about BAYLE?
1 ring city
2 Elden ring
3 old hunters
Halflight gud actually but only the online version