The Secret Honda Two-Stroke that changed the world
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- The 2 stroke Honda Elsinore changed motocross and offroad riding forever.
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I am a 64 year-old former rider now dealing with cancer. Been thinking about a compromised, shortened future, and getting back on a bike in the dirt and mud is high on my bucket list. My history: 1970 Bug Flea minibike ($169); 1972 Honda XL 100 4 stroke, street legal, but not for long; 1974 Honda CR 250 Elsinore, riding which I joined CRC and raced 250 Beginners at Indian Dunes, Osteen's, and Saddleback; 1977 Husqvarna CR250, kept it stock except for air forks, trained briefly with Russ Darnell, spent a week at Carlsbad with Rolf Tibblin, and moved up to Juniors. Then I turned 18, left for college, and walked away from one of the most enjoyable hobbies I ever had.
I used to worry about getting back up on the pegs, no longer able to walk away from the usual dumps and crashes as I did 50 years ago. Cancer and end-of-life considerations change our thinking. A broken ankle or clavicle is now an injury I would willingly risk for the experience one last tine of pitching 235 lbs. of hot metal sideways in a turn, certain that a good berm shot was a motherfucking, slam dunk certainty. When contemplating the end, actualized humans should choose joy over safety, flight over inertia, and tanned girls in optic yellow bikinis - never pass a classic ride.
Peace from So Cal.
Bless you in your fight, my brother from another mother!
Dave
Another 64 yr old in PA with a similar story!
One of my fondest teenage memories was a local kid escaping a cop on an CR125 Elsinore. He calmly put on his helmet and gloves as the cop rolled up on a Harley. Fired that bike up and raced off across a field...the cop was smart enough not to try and follow. The smell of burning gas and Castol R was sublime. Love the look and sound of that bike to this day!
Thanks
True or false for you: If you owned a dirt bike but rode the school bus to school in the 70's, and you looked out the window of the bus as it was going down the highway,---and you imagined jumping every driveway at the bus's speed,------------------------------------------------you did not get good grades in school.
Twas the ninety’s for me but yesir every friggen hill was climeable and every damn driveway was a tabletop my grades sucked but my childhood rocked pretty decent plumbah now so I’m aigghhhtt gotta get back on 2 wheels though thanks for the reminder 😂😂
YES, HOW DID YOU KNOW😮 My go to bike, 1968 Triumph 650 TT Special!!
L
Iet me tell you, I cut a pic of both Elsinores out of a mag and took it everywhere including church. ( I have worked that out since I hope).
I will never forget when my step father told me he had talked to the owner of the Honda shop , these were strictly racing bikes and I wasn't getting one. So I continued racing my CL 100 at our home made motocross track, lights , mirrors long broken and removed replaced with plastic lids as number plates. I broke the right foot peg off taking jumps replacing it with a bolt jammed into the frame. But the ultimate blow came when my friend whose dad was a Dr. , owned the property our " track " we built was on , asked me to take him in my truck to get his CR 125.
It was the original silver/ green 74 and he knew how bad Id wanted one so he let me ride several laps. I rode but didn't race lol.
I saw not long ago that same model for sale in a box. Parts of it , not sure if even all were there and the seller wanted over twice the original price for his box. They are collectors items intact. SMH.
Exactly how it was for me! I had a Yammie MX 100 for my first full size bike, when they were just enduros with the lights left off, knobbies and a chamber from the factory. Then on to the YZ and monoshockers…I was done just as the liquid cooled were coming around and kicking everyone’s asses…
A girl up the road had a first gen 125 Elsinore, when they’d bog and load up in the corners if you let the revs get down, turn off the gas and keep her wide open til it started revving again, flip the gas on and haul ass!!
I do that as I drive to this day
I was a kid when the Elsinores came out - I remember the cover of Cycle magazine with them on it. My family didn’t have the money for me to race motocross so I watched from the sidelines and dreamed.
Up until then motocross bikes tended to be stripped down enduro bikes, maybe with a trimmed piston skirt on the intake side to raise high RPM power. The Elsinores changed all of that overnight.
A few years later I had a friend that bought a MR250 with a CR250 engine in it, complete with an expansion chamber and working lights. That bike was a riot to ride on the street!
This was a golden era of motocross.
14:30
Anyone else notice the chain tensioner nut spinning about as the engine was reved?
This video really takes me back and remindes me how much bikes have evolved. ❤
Yeah, Right around 14:30. Still a great vid...
The thing that I remember most about the Elsinore was that aluminum tank which was just beautiful.
The 125 had a steel tank so that it would meet the minimum weight limit of 176 pounds. The 250 had the aluminum tank.
@@ToneShapers Really? I bet there were other factors for that decision, (if true), because the difference in weight would probably be under 1lb. If what you said is true (steel tank), then I would have to say the 250 had the first aluminum tank, much like steel swing arms changing to aluminum. It just was not developed for the 125 yet.
@@ToneShapers correct
@@EarthSurferUSA Huskys had aluminium tanks before the CR did. Maicos, and the Spanish were fiberglass.
im 54 and this brings back so many memories growing up in southern California. 7 years old running alongside my dirt bike to jump on, because i was too short to touch the ground, struggling to pull the clutch to shift gears. going from a 4-stroke bike to a 2-stroke bike was night and day, i feel in love with the sound and the pull of the powerband. man i had so much fun in the 70s and 80s. thanks for taking the time to make this video.
The bikes are sooooo irrationally tall today, most of the pro riders look like you at the age of 7 trying to get on it. haha
That is why we almost never see a vid of a pro----getting on their bike. :)
I lowered my 2019 YZ250 to 1980's/90's standards. Now I know why there is no such thing as a real off camber corner on a MX track today too. :) They can't hardly turn the tall bikes with out a berm.
@@EarthSurferUSA ❤😊😊
Me too my friend
I owned the MT250 Elsinore, which was Honda's duel purpose version of the CR. That bike was indestructible. I was stationed in Alaska and went everywhere with it, great times and a great bike...
Good luck to you. I bought one in 1975 and it never ran for more than a week without needing service Centre surgery. I wonder if this was a proverbial one off lemon or perhaps a dealer service crew that didn’t understand the machinery. It sure was heavy for a 250 (cc or kilograms?).
@@simewood2040 "It sure was heavy for a 250 (cc or kilograms?)."
I think I found the problem with your bike.
I have 1973 MT 250 sitting in my project trailer
Was used pretty hard,, amazing how much of it is
Original
Paid $250 for it
I recently sold my 1974 MT 250. Had 1000 miles on it, was near mint and stock. $4200
@@EarthSurferUSA you didnt find shit . iwas employed at a honda shop who sold more hondas than any other for years on end and can say from servicing mt250's were total junk that why honda stopped all production in less than a year and a half ..they were the most under powered over weight dirt bike ever ...with 17 hp and 280 lbs. = moto fail
Thanks for taking me back to memory lane . When I was 16 years old I bought my 1st motorcycle , an SL125 , I loved that bike , learned so much with it from sliding into corners, jumping, doing wheelies , then 3 years later, feeling ready to race i bought the CR250M …raced it for 2 years…what a beast that bike was, loved the name Elsinore, loved the power, i always felt like my arms were going to get ripped off, i never had enough of that torque feeling, i eventually moved on to road motorcycle and bought a 1983 Kawa GPZ1100, thanks to the Elsinore for helping me migrate to that big bike.
Today at 67 years old and think of the past i wished i would have kept the Elsinore, not only for what i did with it but for the beauty of it, yes for a motocross it was a beautiful bike, shinny aluminum tank on black… and that exhaust pipe was screaming power why i named it Dark Side ; yah i should have kept it….
Thanks for your nice informative videos 😎
Great comment. 😀
I've got an SL100 & CL100, as well as assorted Honda trail bikes. 60 yrs old, old enough to know better and young enough to do it anyway,
Those bikes lived with personality.
I wish motocrossers were two stokes still, youngsters dont know that smell , and the blast they put out coming out a corner.
George Etheridge is due more credit for making the Elsinore come to life than he is given here; he created at least one prototype of the Elsinore in Torrance and then shipped it to Japan for the factory to emulate.
His proto bike had a chrome moly frame, mud less alloy wheels with small hubs, and an aluminum tank. About two weeks after the factory got his prototype, the Japanese manufacturing engineers wrote to tell him of some change" they were making. They said they were going to substitute leftover wheels from a Benly, since they had a couple hundred thousand of them, use "water pipe" steel for the frame, rather than chrome moly, and use a steel tank. George was despondent, and for good reason. Several who worked with him went to management recommending that Honda send George to Japan to see if he could change their minds about the design-destroying substitutions. George went to Japan, for about 8 weeks, taking a couple weeks to fix each change they had made. It was a struggle, but George prevailed and the world got the very best dirt bike anyone had made.
How do I know this? I worked at a bench about 40 feet from George when he was creating his prototype(s). IMHO, he is the "Father" of the Elsinore, and deserves a great deal more credit for it than he has been given.
The last I heard, George was a regional sales rep for Honda, a rep who really knows his cycles and greatly deserves a great job like he has.
PS: George would take his prototype bike to Saddleback on weekends to see how the changes he had made that week worked. Best yet, he would usually have some great stories to share with us on Mondays. One I remember involved 3 husky 400s that were showing off by racing up some steep, huge hills trying to loose anyone following. George would simply follow them closely while they tried to shake him off. After the Husky's had summitted several huge hills, with George right behind them, one of the Husky riders said to George, "That bike is starting to piss me off!"
The proto bike that George rode on the weekends had a massively-pumped 175 4-stroke engine--the 2-strokes that later came from Japan were a complete secret and a huge surprise to us all.
PPS; Bart, you deserve a huge amount of credit and praise for your channel. Even tho I have followed cycling for 50+ years, I have learned a great deal about the industry, and about the best bikes of each era. I was surprised to know that one of the bikes I had owned (of 200+) was voted the most dangerous dirt bike of all time; the Suzuki TM400! I learned to do wheelies on that bike, and now, finding out how dangerous it was, made me think I am kind of a survivor.
Thanks, Bart for the best cycle channel every!!!
Enjoyed the video. Reminded me of my youth admiring motocross and those gutsy riders. For the 125cc Elsinore, in my mind it was synonymous with Marty Smith who won so many races on it and represented, in my youthful mind, both motocross and Southern California. RIP Marty Smith (1956-2020).
Sometimes I forget how to tie my own shoes, then I remember names like Roger De Coster and Brad Lackey.
Yes. Do you remember Chuck Sun on the 2 stroke CR 500? The sweet smell of 2 strikes at the motocross track on weekends was part of my youth.
@@r.williamcomm7693 Castrol bean oil! Is there a better smell?
@@dicksonfranssen only a beautiful woman comes close. Lol 😂
Agreed
1974 was a year I entered Heaven when I bought the CR 125. Since that time, all my more expensive toys through the decades do not hold a candle to my time riding my Honda Elsinore.
Jawa 175 for me❤
A friend bought one in '74. I didn't have much riding experience back then, and I immediately looped it. Fortunately, my 16 year old legs were spry enough to run behind it and not crash. After that, it was sit as far front as I could and just go through the gears. The engine note wouldn't change because the gear ratios were so close. What a revolutionary bike! In short order Yamaha responded with the YZ monoshock and Suzuki with the first RM's, and Honda lost it's advantage.
I'm still riding the same mx250 that I had when was 13yo
300usd, is worth a million now .
Honda of Orlando, Edgewater drive
The good ole daze😣
I raced in 1974 a CR125, and for road I had a Honda MT125 Trail Bike. For the MT125 I installed a Bassani expansion chamber, cleaned the ports up to increase flow, and put a larger main jet in. The MT125 went from lame duck to a missile. Thanks for the Elsinore story.
I swapped the barrel and piston for a CR one and ran it on premix. All the Suzuki TS 185's ate my smoke.
I was working for Honda when the Elsinore first came out. We couldn’t keep them in stock. I believe the shock of this vastly superior off-road focused bike was responsible for motivating the other manufacturers to make most of the technical leaps that we have today as the manufactures got serious about competition. Honda did not make all of the innovations. Honda just kickstarted the race for innovation with the Elsinore.
My next door neighbor buddy had an Elsinore 125 when it came out. I had a Sachs DKW, and was pretty jealous. LOL, good times racing in Corona.
did you go to honda school on the elsinores that was honda's 1st two stroke ,,if you did your instructor was the man who designed them for honda ..was the most famous tuner in the world "pops" yoshimura himself who explained that all two strokes are internally supercharged and shown us all how he took advantage of that fact in designing the Elsinore and why there is no way a four stroke that is naturally aspirated of the same size will ever make the same or more hp than an internally supercharged two stroke , cause 4 stroke that go suck bang and blow aint supercharged ...but not according to the imbeciles of today who all believe magic and voodoo is real
@@msromike123 i started out in 67 with a Sears Super Sabre. my bud got a Honda CL 90. instant humiliation.
I will never ever forget the first time I saw a 1975 Honda CR125M displayed at a motorcycle store. I was in 6th grade and everyday I pass by that place just to stare at it through the glass window. And wow, especially when I first heard it run and reaped on its top rpm. I could still hear it in my head.
I had been racing for 2 years and turned 16 when the CR125 came out. Best coincidence of my life. Featherweight, seamless quick gearbox, razor sharp stock jetting (my standard ever since), and its handling was so communicative that, combined with the weight, made you confident of trying anything. Never has a race bike been so much better than ANYTHING else when it came out. God bike. And it was possible to keep it that way for quite a while. Over time, with the help of a shop I raced for, I had a reinforced aluminum swing-arm, laid down shocks, the GP engine kit, fork travel kit, etc. When the RM/YZs came out, they were a challenge. But at the pointy end, there were heavily modded CRs giving as good as they took. Loved that bike. Literally. Loved.
silver with red stripe on tank ?
I had same bike 75 red stripe cr125, also at 16. Loved it.
@@margarita8442 Silver w/green stripe. Soon was almost 100% red. Had to paint the frame anyway after the welding to lay the shocks down. Soon, everything everything except the pipe & the carburetor were red.
@@ElsinoreRacer I had a 36mm carby with ported barrel
Honda was not "Pushed out" of dirt track racing. After decimating the AMA Flat track series and the Harley Davidson XR750's of the time with total dominance of the sport, they simply stopped making and competing in the series with their NS750's. Equivelent to today's Indian's. THey came they saw and they conquered.
I totally agree. They conquered and they moved on.
And the accident with Bubba Shoburt.. Honda's #1 rider
Am I change the rules and made him put a 50 lb weight underneath That's why they quit
Also the AMA put restrictions on the Honda flat track bikes , like Nascar to keep one manufacturer unless its HD from running away from the competition. They added weight , and required a restrictor plate added to cut hp. Honda just didn't have a chance against corporate HD.
It’s always a great day when Bart posts 💪🏻
Hellz yeah brotheeeer
🦾
Yea, right. bot channels don't know day from night.
@@EarthSurferUSA 10-4 pig pen
I had been riding for 2 years when the CR125 came out. Wow what a bike! I couldn't afford one, and only got to ride one once, but compared to almost everything else it was light and fast. A the time it was very exciting, with new faster MXers coming out every 3-4 months it seemed; the CRs were followed by the RMs which combined more power with long travel "cushy" suspensions, then the YZs with even more power... it was a GREAT time to be a rider!!!
First dirtbike I ever rode. I remember thinking how knarly could 125cc's be. Holy moly are they awesome. Especially when you're not heavy set
With a power-band that was only ten mm long?
@@Deontjie Yeah, compared to today's bikes. In my youth 😂 I was used to winding out small engines, all that mattered was whether you got anything for your wrist-twist. Little 4 strokers like the CL160 Honda made very little power anywhere, there was nothing below 250cc that we could afford (ie no Huskies or Pentons etc) that made useful power by today's standards. Actually getting something while wringing out a CR125 was welcome. The CR250 was GREAT for the day! I fell in love with 2stroke power and went on to 10 years of racing RD & TZ Yamahas, which ranged from "some to none" in the midrange dept. But GREAT top-end rush!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Great memories. Those of us from that time all remember the first time the power band kicked. Better than $ex!
Honda.. Best chassis/forks (by far).. Suzuki.. smoothest power and best rear shocks.. Yamaha. best raw power. a little hard to ride.
I owned and raced also a 1974 Elsinore 125 in 1978 in the Netherlands, that bike was awesome. Nice souvenirs. Thanks for sharing and cheers from France(since 1982)!
Does the Elsinore 125 have good power stock?
I owned a 1974 elsinore 250 and a 1976 elsinore 250, awesome to ride, still my favorite dirt bike.
Great story about those Legedary Elsinore's! I remember my local motorcycle dealership back in the good old days of the early 70's. My first Dirt Bike in "72 was the SL125! I didn't care that it was not the most powerful scoot in the "Hood" in rural Ga. but it hauled my 12yr old self around just fine! My buddy up the road a ways had an SL125 too, so we just owned this little part of the world. He finally moved up to a DKW 125 in 1975 and I upgraded to the XL 250 in 1974. And at the ripe old age of 15 I joined the AMA , SETRA (Southeastern Enduro and Trail Riders Assn) and my buddy and I entered our first Enduro, the Gold City 150 in Dahlonega Ga in '74. (He broke, I timed out!) I also remember the first CR125 Elsinore at the local Cycle shop. It was for the local guy the cycle shop supported some and worked on his Hodaka Wombat 100 and then Combat Wombat 125. JEEZ! A flood of memories just popped up and I could rattle on for hours! Those were some good times, God how I truly miss them! Thanks for the memories 👍✌
Thanks, Bart, and certainly, Suzuki earned its reign in the early '70s with European superstars, but for American teens, it was Honda and Marty Smith who showed the way and in short order showed the Europeans they had another thing coming when it came to dominating our races. It was great theater on the track and in the magazines and on bedroom wall posters. And for me as an American teen attending an overseas military high school in Frankfurt, West Germany, I was an avid reader of all the monthly motorcycle magazines sold at the newsstand next to the PX. I worked an after-school job at the commissary, so I had that jingle in my pockets for Dirt Bike and Motocross Action and Cycle and Cycle World and Cycle Guide and Motorcyclist and yeah, I was a kook about it all and no regrets, bicycles and motorcycles were my teenage life. And get this, in '76, I bought a used '73 250 Maico from a friend for $200 bucks and became friends with the local Maico dealer in Frankfurt, Herr Mueller. And one day in his shop, he casually told me that Marty Smith would be racing the upcoming 125 German GP. I couldn't believe it, asked my Dad to take the family VW bus with a bunch of us to the race, and before the race, just relaxing outside his tent from an overnight stay at the track, was Marty in a camping chair just beyond a boundary of tape. And it was so incredible to meet him and chat with him and he was as nice as any kid would want his sports hero to be. And he placed second to Gaston Rahier on a Suzuki that day and my Dad took a bunch of great photos which I shared with a motocross website a couple of decades ago. And the site host said Marty really enjoyed them and said, "I remember that guy!" when he saw the pic of me standing next to him. It was one of my favorite days. I was a fan and may Marty rest in peace. He and his 125 were simply inspirational. And let's not forget that in '77, he won a 500cc championship on a Honda, beating the best of them all, Roger DeCoster on a Suzuki. Marty was the man.
I remember a neighbor kid had a brand new SL-70 bike, and to me a 9 year old with a mini-bike with a Tecumseh pull start engine, it was such a cool looking bike and to me looked like a 3/4 size real dirt bike.
@@A-FrameWedge So true, everything was exciting back then. And I remember thinking my Dad was a lucky duck in '71 because he had a Honda three-wheeler to ride at his construction work site. Plus he wasn't even into off-roading. That's just how I saw things when I was 11 in California, tho' I was forever thankful for my Sting-Ray, something to ride fast in the dirt like all the other speed-crazy kids. 😀
I still rue the day I let my 1974 Honda Elsinore 250 go. Got it out of the crate in 1975, leftover stock from Redlands Honda in Redlands, CA. Man, that was the most amazing bike.
Watched that film "On Any Sunday", twice through in one day, then went with a couple of buddies to a Yamaha shop to buy our first bikes. I bought a Yamaha 250 Enduro, new for $750.00 plus tax, took it home and stripped it down. Removed all the lights and Speedo stuff. Put on a plastic peanut gas tank, plastic fenders, changed the 47 tooth rear sprocket to a 54 tooth one for more torque to the ground for hill climbing, gutted the Auto-Lube and ran mixed Blenzal gas that brought tears to ones eyes if you were stuck behind me. I had a weld shop modify the rear shocks to a lower top point for 'Lay Down Shock' greater rear travel for those fat Knobby tires that barely cleared the frame. Beefed up the rear brake arm, and mounted a motocross style handlebar with impact resistant levers complete with a compression release lever to go with the compression release spark plug. Had fun with it in the dirt, cow trailing, hill climbing, etc. then sold it when I saw all of my riding partners off work for months after their crashes during our Northern California and Bay Area rides. Hollister. Carnegie. Pascadero. Mendocino. China Camp. All trucked in rides that started out in the dark of morning and ended in the dark of night. With a toddler age son, I knew I couldn't miss work to be able to keep the family fed. Yes, I dumped it more than once, and my right side knee is still weak from a wicked drop, even though I'm now 75 years old... but I wouldn't trade those fun times for all the tea in China! This video was great to bring back those memories along with the brand names of the bikes of other riders that we rode the trails and hills with. Knew all of them. Able to out climb many of them with my 54 tooth setup and better idle setting. Some of those other bikes couldn't idle at all. Too pipey!
My first bike in 1977 was a 1974 MT125 Elsinore. Great bike that never broke down but slow as hell. Also had to take a lot of breaks in my ride as it would heat up fairly quick. Back suspension was terrible. Anyways that's what I remember owning a 1974 MT125 at 14 & 15 yrs old.
Was racing a Yamaha RT 100 when this bike came out. Bought a new 1974 Elsinore 125 and immediately started winning races on it.
This bike changed the game in motocross without a doubt…👊
I remember going to a motocross race when thes bikes 1st came out the whole starting line was honda 125 Elsinore, sthey trul dominated like nothing i had seen before! 25 bike's on the line and they were all the same one!had to see it to believe it truly amazing!
After this video, @bart is officially my most favourite motorcycle channel, ever! it's not a competition with F9, that is a different type of content, but bart is just killing it with simple, knowledge based, encyclopedia of a motorcycle channel,,,,,,
Simplistic? Or simple? There is a difference.
@@Lightw81 thanks for pointing out, it's simple
This is awesome - I had a 125 Elsinore - not sure of the year, then a 1986 CR250R 2 stroke, now a 2005 CRF450x - all of the bikes were and are so reliable. Thank you for the background on the Elsinore
I knew it! I knew it! One of my best friend's died at 21 on an Elsinore 250 (circa 1979) "dual sport". I was always in awe of Dave's abilities on that bike. None of us could keep up with him.
Great video. Brings back lots of great memories, too. I got a brand new CR 80 Elsinore in 1981 when I was 10 years old and weighed about 70lbs. It was the first 2-stroke in my rural neighborhood area at the time. I was untouchable on that thing. It would go exactly 73 mph, wide-opened in 6th gear. My parents never knew just how fast that thing was. They just thought it was a cute little red dirt bike. lol!
I had the 80 CR80R and could ride it about 10 minutes before the cops would be cruising my neighborhood looking for me. I don't blame my neighbors for calling them - it was a chainsaw on wheels.
They should offer those comfortable seats again. Sitting on your dirt bike like a couch is just another dimension of relaxation, especially if you enjoy cruising through the fields and trails at ease. I only use old seats from the 70's-80's or build similar ones for new projects, the modern seats are just way too hard and uncomfortable.
I had a first year cr250 Elsinore. Was awesome. Loved that little flap on fender leading edge. Great bike, light, fast, reliable. I put a little flywheel weight on mine and later modified the rear suspension, moving the shocks up using welded forward mount plates and a pair of marzzochi shocks. I had no idea what I was doing. ;-)
😆 Neither did anyone else, but they were all doing the same.
Me 2 !!!! One of the magazines had a story about moving the shocks and making gussets for the swing arm!!! Riding with twin brothers who worked in a machine shop helped A LOT !!!😊😊😊😊😊🏍🏍🏍🏍🏍🏁🏁🏁🍺🍺🍺
@@artmchugh5644 Dirt Bike mag had a goofball story about bike maintenance where they said to boil your chain in vegetable oil on the stove to bring it back to life. My next door buddy that I rode with actually did it. I was with him and he just took it into the kitchen and got a pan and vegetable oil and boiled it. 😆 His nom didn't care. She let him do anything.
@@tristanwwsd when I moved my shocks , I painted the swing arm orange so people would notice!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣👍
@@artmchugh5644 Orange? Ultra trick. 😃
I actually have an Elsinore 125 sitting in my garage right now! They are incredible bikes. Love mine to death, and I have had it in my family since brand new.
It's mine now, and it still runs like a top.
I had 3 my dad took them to the tip.
@@Ricardo-jk3et more fool him
awesome!
I remember back when the Elsinore came out brand new. I rode a 250 it was a beast off road.
I turned 10 in 1975 and I remember wanting an Elsinore so bad. My dad bought me a new XL70 and I learned on that. I never did get that Elsinore and if Honda made a retro bike now to honor it I would still buy one.
I was sitting in my high school drafting class in 1975 and one of the guys mentioned he had a motorcycle for sale. I asked what kind and he said a 1974 Honda Elsinore 125. I had never heard of it, So my dad and I went to his house that Saturday to look at it. I took it for a ride and all I remember was having to work to keep the front wheel on the ground. Until that time I had never ridden any bike with that kind of power or "power band" punch. I paid $500 for it, it was in great shape. I then raced that bike for 2 years and had a blast with it. That one bike, 48 years later, has forever changed my life. As I type this, I can still remember the sound, the smell and the punch of that Elsinore 125. The greatest bike I have ever owned. To this day I still have dreams of getting that bike back in my hands.
Raced the Elsinore in the 70's. Damn it was an awesome and fun machine. The SL-125 was my first trail bike.
Great video Fluump ❤️
The 125 Elsie was an absolute joy. The most joyous thing about them to me is the time my smug neighbour with his hi-zoot Sachs/Penton 250 got his clock fully cleaned by a 125 Elsie flown by a visitor from California on the muddy, mountainous trails near my house in SE Ohio, would have been about 1975 (everything was slow to get to Ohio in the 70s).
I had a new 79 Elsinore 250. Solid red. Fastest thing you ever rode. It ripped out the factory spokes and would occasionally break the DG spokes that I installed. Monster power. Any body I let get on it got hurt.
It was plain dangerous but fun as hell to ride at 14 years old.
I put a hole through my boot once kicking it but damn what a ride.
Couple of minor corrections with the CR250R. It was introduced in 1978, I owned and raced one, and it was still a twin shock, not Pro-Link, but was the first production bike with a full 12" of suspension travel. Pro-Link came along in 1981.
I had a 79...in 79 it seemed light years ahead from my Hodaka. Lol, it was.
Different bike I know but, I bought a brand new, superseded rear twin strut shocked XL 500 that was THE last with that type rear suspension. The new model WITH the long travel single shock was already out so it was stupidly cheap and that XL was the last, the silver tanked ones from 1982 so that dates pretty close to your dates for the CR50 there. Being the more serious race type bike, I'd expect them to be ahead if anything, the much less serious trail bikes so your 1981 sounds logically to be spot on.
In this same vane the cr250r didn’t get an aluminum frame until 1997 and it was not well received at the time or in hindsight really as the frame was/is way too stiff and reportedly prone to cracking. The last steel frame ones are often regarded as the best until the second generation of aluminum frames in 2001.
Yep had 81 cr125 pro link water cooled little rocket in its day
It is a bot channel, and like our education today, there is very little accuracy.
First time I saw a 125 Elsinore was in 1973, in Manchay circuit in Lima Perú, from then to now no other bike impessed me that way...that bike was a dream come true.
Dedicated motocross/enduro/scrambles bikes were quite common long before the introduction of the Elsinore at Daytona 1973. Bultaco, Maico, CX, Husqvarna, Penton, Montessa and on.
As I recall, during the late 1960s off road motorcycles were evolving rapidly. John Penton (especially) was convinced that extremely lightweight 2 strokes would become the most competitive bikes. Soon the Japanese jumped on this bandwagon with their superior engineering, high volume manufacturing facilities, and low cost labor. European manufacturers were simply unable to remain competitive - until more recently (see KTM).
@@5tr41ghtGuy The Penton was built by KTM for him. When Penton motorcycles went bankrupt, KTM could then import them directly. We bought a Hi-Point trailer after that time (He owned that company too) and Mr. John Penton delivered it himself! It was an honor to meet him
@@5tr41ghtGuy what did you ride on the sixties?
@@stevek8829 I was riding a Honda QA 50 in the 1960's, because I was 8 years old!
@@5tr41ghtGuy had a 68 CB-350, and a 68 Penton 125 on 68, which I started racing on. Honda was late to the party for motocross and enduro. Their first two stroke made it's first appearance in the 250 class at Daytona in 73, I was there. Even in 73, if you were an amateur racer, your best purchase value was still European.
I never heard of a Honda QA in the sixties, only the seventies.
I had an sl 125 my dad bought used . It was immaculate and I immediately removed the lights and my dad freaked out . I then got a 74 Elsie after my SL fell off a bike trailer and the guy driving , a friends dad , gave me my Elsie . I was so glad my SL came off the trailer and I ended up with the Elsie. They had a power band about an inch wide . You were basically wide open the whole time you rode it . Loved the sound of them in mass at a start and the smell of bean oil .
I bought a Can-Am when they first came out. A little heavier than my Elsinore, but a much wider power band. However, the 125 Elsinore was so much fun. It produced all its horsepower in a very narrow band… I think it was around 9000 RPM… But that was 50 years ago and I’m probably wrong. It was almost impossible to keep the front wheel on the ground… it was an absolute riot! Great memories.
Note: a previous comment recommended doing a video on Hodaka…. I would love to see that… My first bike was a super rat!
I'd love a video on Hodaka, great idea!! I never had a Hodaka. I do have a 1983 CanAm MX 250. I've had it since 1990. Back in the day some friends had new 1974 CR125s, but I've never had one. Closest I came was an MR 250 and an MR 50. Ah, the good old days.
Being in my mid 60s, it's amazing how many of the bikes from this video I have owned, ridden, and wished I owned. You brought back tons of memories. Thanks.
From zero to hero its awesome he had someone in the company that recognized the problem and addressed it or it may have set them back years in development
I had an MT 250 (and should have kept it) for my first bike. Delightful for urban commuting, it was easy to care for and forgiving.
2020 CRF450L. Keep riding. My old man had an Elisnore back in Van Nuys 73/74 with Al Baker tuning that bike up then it was my turn XR75. RIP dad. 63 in October keep riding my friends.
Read about the Elsinore and immediately ordered one. Got one of the first Elsinores sold in So. California. $1,040.00 O.T.D. have owned many bikes since that day, but the Honda will always be my favorite.
As someone who is heavily into offroad bikes, I enjoy the toe dip into this side of the spectrum from this channel.
I climbed off a Suzuki TM 400, and jumped on to a Honda Elsinore, 250, and went straight to number one on the track, thank you Honda for a very memorable period of time.
Good to see you jump into describing the Japanese dirt bike scene of this period. A couple of suggestions for possible topics, The Yamaha DT-1 which was arguably the first big step in the right direction of making Japanese bikes a serious choice for dirt riding, and Hodaka which showed how a small American group could show the Japanese how to make small trail and motocross bikes that Americans wanted.
A minor quibble. Penton didn't 'disappear'; it was essentially a hobby business to bring great European bikes into the country from a tiny company that had neither the interest or resources to do it. The comapny -- KTM. I think that they are still with us.
Penton motorcycles originally had Sachs engines in them. Only after they came out with the Jackpiner did they have KTM engines which John Penton had requested them to build for him
@@1practicaljoker Yes they had Sachs engines, but they were KTM bikes -- I believe this was before KTM made their own engines. I had a '73 125 Enduro, that had a Sachs 6 spd, and a frame that clearly resembled the larger mid '70s Pentons.
can i have some of what you got to have an imagination like you have about motorcycle history that never happened ...you said john penton was a hobby business ?that is the biggest understatement ever . bahahaha lol he was the most famous of your isdt trails competition winners of all time ..and factory team rider for Husqvarna ..at that time ktm was only making mopeds and bicycles ,,it was john penton an american who shown ktm how to build a world class dirt bike , what a hobbyist you claim john penton was ..he sold 25,000 Penton racing dirt bikes to americans made to his order from a bicycle company before john penton sold his dirt bikes 10 years later to KTM who only knew how to make bicycles that some even had a motor , but if it was not for an american motorcycle world champion racer ktm would still be peddling there ass off trying to make it over the alps
LEGEND! This was my Dad's favorite bike, of the maybe 30-40 motorcycles he owned through his life, he talked about the Elsinore more, by a lot!
I have a 1973 Z50 and CT70, both still running great. Wish I still had the XR75. Durability and longevity like no other. Love my Honda's.
I had a 125cc Elsinore. Very light, nimble, fabulous fork travel and powerful for 125cc. Loved it.
Hey Fluump, great content😉 glad to see you enjoying YT again!
My best friend had the Elsinore. I went the street route with a Suzuki RG500.
If you're doing a video about street bikes you might want to look at it. 155Kg (340 lbs), square four two stroke. It topped out at 240 K/h (150mph) and handled like a dream.
Rotary disc valve 🤘
The squid laying it down at 16:28 was worth the watch . Been riding red since 97 and still have a 2003 CRF 450r vintage piece . Indestructible would be a good description owed to the Elsinore
The first CR125M was so light originally that Honda had to change the aluminium tank to steel to get it above the minimium legal race weight! The two Elsinores also came with alloy body finned shocks that were rebuildable which gave them a very superior compliance to the track for longer ( until they heated up as well). The Honda was poorly jetted though and jets were simply unavailable to most people. If you let it come off pipe it would load up and take about 10secs to clear.
The next big step was when Yamaha introduced the YZ with the monoshock tringulated rear with a De Carbon single shock. With the reed valve and the improved traction the Yammie was pretty hard to beat as the power band was much wider and the rear stuck to the ground much better .
In the early '70s, while in high school, I worked in the parts department for Wiggy's Honda in Pt. Pleasant NJ. I bought one of the first two CR250 Elsinores that came in, which had sand cast crankcases. The ones after that were diecast. I still have what was the original owner's manual, a poor photocopy marked "Provisional Manual". Not discussed here, was the requirement to change the piston rings "every 2 races"!!! After riding it for a few hours, I pulled it apart while still running perfect, and the rings were stuck in the piston grooves! I was relieved when the new rings went right in, and the piston wasn't damaged. The engine was HOT, once flipped the bike over backwards on pavement when I opened it up. Along another note, during that time Wiggy's sponsored from Honda of Japan, Tetsu "Mike" Hishiki, and shortly after that his mechanic, Yoshi "Pete" Sudo, to come to the states. They built a killer CB750 with parts flown in from Japan and raced it on the US circuit. Basically, the same bike that he was winning on in Japan. They arrived with zero English skills, and we taught them from scratch. Before purchasing the CR250, Mike and Pete helped me build a killer SL125 with Yoshimura parts and tricks such as welding the centrifugal spark advance to full advance. I was keeping up with two strokes in the gravel pits! Twenty years later I bumped into Pete at Disney in Florida! He said that Mike went back to Japan. Mike can be found on TH-cam and also with a Google search.
The early 70's were the best time to be a kid involved with riding dirt bikes with you dad, and the early 70's was motocrosses shining hour.... absolutely the the best era of motocross....makes me sad those days were so long ago and went by so fast but I am damn glad I was part of that era
I had a 250 Elsinore the first year they came out. Maybe the first one in South Florida as the Honda shop was next door to my das's HVAC business. I won a lot of races on that thing, but I also killed it mechanically. I broke the down tube frame in half twice, bent the bolt that held on one of the foot pegs multiple times, broke the gears in the transmission, bent shift forks, broke the weld on the center case for the transmission, flattened the down pipe multiple times, and blew the motor including the connecting rod that punched a hole in the cases.
25 dirt bikes later at 16 years old, that dirt bike is still my favorite of all time. It was like owning a nitro dragster at the time and I was thrilled it was mine.
My friend had a 250 ELSINOR. That thing was a beast. I loved it
Ive had a few bikes in my time. Without a doubt the 1975 Mr50 is my all time favorite toy. My mom and dad bought it new for me. Thanks mom and dad. The Mr50 was a beast compared to the other 50’s. Tuff as nails.
Excellent documentary… not spoilt with hundreds of commercials either… thank you, have subscribed
I watched in amazement as you relived my life in the 70s. I had two Honda motorcycles. I enjoyed this video.
I never had the Elsinore 250 but I did have the 1975 Bultaco Pursang 360 , almost got the Husky the day I bought my Bultaco . After that I bought the 77 Yamaha YZ 400. I was younger than most of the guys I rode with and they were heavily in to the Macos, CZs< Montessa , Pentons, and the Susuki TM 400 , Yamaha Sc500. those were some very good days.
Unforgettable Elsinore, i felt in love whe i was child, the quality of HONDA awesome,
My first bike. 1974 CR125M, with the silver/green tank. My dad bought two, one for him, one for me. I was 14. I learned to ride on that bike, using the "gas it 'til you hit something" method. I followed Super Hunky's advice as outlined in one of his "From The Saddle" columns (Dirt Bike Magazine): when in doubt, gas it.
WFO
I was racing MX in the early 70’s thru 81. Starting on a Hodaka Super Rat up to KX250 in 1981. I raced against the 125 Elsinores and they were gnarly. Too many kids in the 125 class, so I only did it one year. Once you have a hole shot and your handlebar hits the latticed fence they had in the day…and everyone gives you a knobby thrashed body, you get out. 🤙🤙🤙
I had a CR80 back in 82, what a little flying machine, had that for a year and hit a growth spurt, got the CR125 and YEEHAAAAA!!
That bike FLEW far and high, the old abandoned sandpits of St.Davids had tracks carved into it in no time, the walls were our adventure
Excellent piece. Growing up in the 70s this sums it up perfectly
I can remember the day my Honda dealer and best friend unboxed their first 250. All the mechanics and serious riders rode Husqvarnas, there wasn't any choice. A few laps around the parking lot and soon everyone was running for their helmets. The MSRP would barely buy you a good helmet and a lunch today.
There's a bit more to the "best friend" part of the story that I won't clog up the main page with. From my first CT70 at age 14 Dean always treated me as an adult. As an introverted kid this meant the world to me. 30 years later I married a woman with the same last name as Dean and the same first name as his wife. Dean died last year and his memorial page is full of stories like mine. I'm 66 now and my wife knows I'm desperate for another dirt bike. Her advice is to go for it, how did I ever get so lucky?
@@scottjet5308 There were some other oddball bikes in Canada; Bultaco, DKW's, Hodaka's and one strange guy who sold a dozen Ossa's per year. The Hodaka not so much but getting parts for the others would make you tear your hair out. Ossa got its start making movie projectors, my mom had a Husqvarna sewing machine. I had a CanAm 125 that was a rocket IF the Bosch ignition didn't crap out once a month.
Great video! Brought back so many memories of being a teen in the 70s &80's and riding motocross in Alabama. Rode my YZ80 everywhere and everyday until the Elsinore showed up at the Honda store. Got my hands on a brochure for the 250 Else and just drove my parent absolutely crazy day and night till they finally gave in .Riding the 250 Elsinore at the various tracks around the deep south made for the most memorable summers of my life (until I got a CR!) Thanks for bringing back all those memories!
Bought a used 250 Elsinore in 1978. Rear shock lower was moved forward on the swingarm a couple inches and had FMF (Flying Machine Factory) porting and I put a Don Vesco desert tank on it. It was a beast, so I thought. Then I got an RM250c2 and that thing kicked butt, especially when I bored out the carburetor and installed 4 petal fiberglass reeds, added fox variable rate shocks and put the first gear from the pe250 to spread the ratio. It revved like a 125, had a powerband like a four stroke and enough power to get to 125 mph without much trouble. The big drawback was keeping it cool with that much horsepower.
I bought my Elsinore MX 250 in 1973 and a Elsinore MT 250 Enduro in 1975. Both were decent bikes. The MX bike had a very quick throttle response, light weight and it had almost zero rear wheel suspension travel. The MT was very reliable. My only complaint about the MT was it's tendency to bog. It seemed to be a weather conditions problem. Wish I had held onto both bikes. Bought a Can Am 250 in 1975 and while testing, I broke my back which left me paralyzed from the waist down. Despite my accident I've never blamed it on the sport. It was an accident and I was riding in a dangerous environment so the accident was all on me, not the bike. Anyways, thank you for this trip down memory lane and reminding me of a few bikes I wish I had held onto.
Loved my CR250 Elsinore! Previously had a XL250 thumper which would torque its way to the front of the pack of two strokes but it was heavy and cumbersome. The CR250 was lithe, limber, powerful and light--you could throw it around a motocross track with gay abandon! What a bike!
In 1973 my neighbor got a 125 and a 250 Elsinore from Reggie Pink in New York ... He used to let me putt around the track on the 125 when I was 10 years old
I had one of some of the first CR125s to hit southern California. I bought it at Simi Valley Honda . Back in the day at some of the races you had to hold your clutch hand up in the air at the starting line and when they dropped the rope you had to grab the clutch shifter in gear and get it ! . One little secret about the 125 Honda Elsinore’s is the clutch arm is on the top of the case on the right side so you could put your boot on it and engage the clutch wile your buddy at the line nonchalantly placed it in gear , so when they dropped the rope all you had to do is slide you boot over to the peg grab the grip on the clutch side and you launched before anybody else got in gear and I always got the hole shot .. They finally caught on to me after a hand full of races though.LOL The fun I had . 😎
My neighbor had a Honda Elsinore, 125 and I had a Suzuki RM 125. We were always in competition and racing together, trying to convince the other which bike was the best lol. I miss those days.
I like your video. Some of your details are off for example Honda pro link didn't come out until 1981 , Honda tried to advertise the 1972 Xl 250 as a serious mx bike and it almost made a competitive bike. Maico and CZ 125 were too heavy ,your right about them. Monarch ( a swedish bike using a Sachs engine) was the best 125 in 1974, but at $1200. Vs $750 for a cr125 was a no brainier. I am 65 and still vintage race my 1975 Elsinore that I bought new in 75. I had a 1974 cr125, and 1979 cr250r, I wish I kept both of them. And I wish I had kept my 1972 xl250, I race it but it was a pig. I did keep my ct70 that I threw a paper route to buy in 1970 and I have a , what I consider, Honda's best two stroke ever my 2001 cr250r. You can't beat a Honda. I keep them for decades and they keep running. My newest Honda in the fleet is my 2002 vlx 600. I kept the 75 Elsinore because I won more trophies on that bike than any other I had and in vintage racing ( in my age group) it is still getting me into the top 3 places. Keep riding keep racing just keep it on two wheels.
I also threw papers on a paper route in 1971 when I was 13 and then used that money to buy my first motorcycle which was a Yamaha 100cc Enduro. I had a lot of fun on that little bike and then I bought a 125 Enduro. I bought full fledged street bikes after that. I never did try any official motocross racing but I kept up with a lot of it from the motorcycle magazines of the day. I think the Elsie was the best looking motocross bike of them all partly because of that silver tank.
Wish I had many of my old bikes back. Had a 73 250. Loved that bike.
Nice summary of the Elsinore story! One of our friends had a CR125, he was the envy of the group. Everyone compared their bike to the Elsinore!
Bought a new cr250m in 1973. Wish I still had it. Down the railroad tracks wide open was a thrill.
My neighbor across the street had an 250 Elsinore.... Interstate 5 ran along the backside of our neighborhood with a long street parallel...I jumped on the throttle and when I hit third gear I thought I was going to fly off the bike.... scared the crap outta me! WHOA!
Eric Underwood Class of 81 Downey High school CA ✌️
I grew up in this era - racing Penton in motocross when the Elsinore came out. I could hole-shot them but they would pass us in the corners. They were virtually unbeatable, relegating Penton and Husqvarna to cross country and enduro racing. Penton was made by KTM, which came to the US with their name on the tank in 1978. Very fun time in motorcycle racing history.
I too raced a borrowed KTM/Penton 250 a few times - my god it was fast, I got the holeshot every time. Keeping that thing going in a straight line was a challenge. Once I figured out how to keep the rear wheel in the back I couldn't be beat for while, but I was constantly terrified of crashing it. Much happier on my Suzuki. Oh, I also had a 1976 CR125 and it was awesome. Then a couple of RM125s, and then a YZ125. Each bike better than the previous one, but the CR really changed the game. Great video!
@@dermick Those are all cool bikes. In 1973 I was a junior in high school. Had a brand new Penton Six Days, rode it to school, and some kid stole it. That was before the term 'dualsport' had been coined.
I had a PE175 as I got more into trailbikes. And I had a 80 or so CR250. In later years I rode a plated GasGas EC250 - pretty much a CR250 trailbike. Even later I restored a 78 KTM MC5 400 - that was the first year KTM put their names on the bikes coming to US market. The prior year it as a Penton Mint 400. Very cool old race bike that worked pretty darn good on trails, but tore them up pretty bad. Later these bikes were frowned upon - they wanted you to run a trials tire so the trails wouldn't get rutted out.
oh this is where fluump went
There's a great new book called Motocross, the Golden Era. It's $200 but for that you get 480 pages and 600 images. It looks like it starts around 1975 and my favorite chapter is 'Supercross, it isn't motocross'. For people who have a soft spot for names like Brad Lackey and Jim Weinert this is better than getting Old Spice for Christmas. Kind of makes me pining for the fjords.
I remember going to Elsinore as a kid to watch the TT racing. Good times.
BTW, If you're name's Bart you got my seal of approval.............cheers Bart
I had a 73 Elsinore 125 back 1977 in the day I did well at the track. It had a DG pipe and some custom porting it was fast. My friend had the 250 I could out Drag him every time. That bike was Impressive for the day. Great history and video
I had a 1977 Honda MR175 Elsinore, good god I loved that bike.
Nice trip down memory lane.
Cheers.
Lake Elsinore is a city in western Riverside County, California, United States. Established as a city in 1888, it is on the shore of Lake Elsinore, a natural freshwater lake about 3,000 acres (1,200 ha) in size. The city has grown from a small resort town in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to a suburban city with over 70,000 residents.
I got to spend quite a bit of time on a 125 Elsinore in 1972 and it was a spectacular weapon - such a blast to ride. My 250 Bultaco Persang at the time was an unrefined but loveable brute. I was I still had it.
I purchased one of the first 125 Elsinore s to land in LA harbor at Ed's cycle shop in Highland Park / LA . One thing that was weak on the frame were then peg mounts as they started cracking almost 5 months later. So I took it to a specialist fabricator and completely fixed the problem. It was simply the best motorcycle I ever owned as it went far and beyond any motocross bike even 10 years after I purchased it. A month ago they did a TH-cam video where they raced a vintage Box Stock 125 Elsinore against the latest and the greatest and the Elsinore came in second!
I was 17 years old in the summer of ‘74, racing a Yamaha MX125, which was basically an AT2 or AT3 with the street equipment removed and a 21” wheel. My friend”s dad owned a construction company and bought his son an Elsinore 125. The silver one. I remember riding it the first day he got it and thinking that it was like lightning in a bottle, it was so light, nimble, and therefore fast. It looked and felt like a works bike and made my Yamaha feel bloated and lethargic. It was a really long time before Yamaha caught up to Honda, maybe with RJ’s liquid cooled 250 or the four strokes. Thanks for the memories.
Really enjoyed your video... I vividly remember when the Elsnore came out. The big news was Honda made a 2-stroke dirt bike and it was bad ass!
Oh the memories! There was nothing like being young and owning & racing one those beauties. I loved it!!
I had the 2nd CR125 that hit our cities - bought it 2nd hand from a buddy as it was his 1st race bike and it was tattered and torn. I rebuilt it top to bottom and when I took out to the track he couldn't believe it was his old bike. Easily pulled a hole shot first time out - my Husky wasn't great off the line but made up for it shortly there after. The Elsie was a fantastic wheelie bike - could run through the whole gearbox on the rear wheel. Modded it a bit for more mid range. Def big fun!