Your explanation is fascinating! Best ever on how the fill valve works. Appreciate it! Would you consider making videos for garden irrigation control valves? That one is also a magic to me (and I've got enough headaches from fixing it). I've seen many videos/animations on that one. But none at your level of clarity.
Finally someone explains how this works ("flow this, pressure that") and not the dozens of videos of how it operates ("the water rises and the float closes the valve"). I'm yet to find out how do the ones without center pin (but a small hole that is closed by the float rising) work, but now I can brag about knowing this 😉 Thanks!
You've done a fine job of explaining the action of the valve, thank you. There is, however, one omission that needs to be clarified and might help viewers to understand why the valve closes and stays closed. @6:52 the diagram is most helpful. The pressure above, below and through the small blue pathways is always the same as the house pipe pressure. So if the house water pressure is 50 psi, then all those areas are also 50 psi. What makes the difference in FORCE that enables the valve seal to push down is that the surface area at the top of the seal, where you have the 4 black arrows, is greater than the blue-grey area that presses against the bottom of the seal. The blue-grey is the source for all the water and pressure. So if, say, the total surface area of the top of the seal is one square inch, then there is 50 pounds of force pushing down (50 pounds per square inch, psi). If the surface area of the underside of the seal is, say, one quarter of a square inch (the equivalent of 1/2 x 1/2 inch) then the upward force is 12 1/2 pounds. Naturally the 50 pounds will overcome the 12 1/2 and hold the seal against the incoming water. I don't know the exact surface area dimensions of the seal, but in reality the tolerances could be much tighter and 20 lbs will overcome 15, etc. Again, splendid job. I'm sure this video took a few hours to make.
I have a fluidmaster, yet NOBODY on youtube has made a video about what the little spiral shaped rubber seal inside the bottom of the unit does. Do you have that seal inside yours? We do in Australia. All i can assume is that its a flow restrictor, or a piece of junk that is purposely put there to break down over time causing one to have to buy a brand new refill valve. My refill valve stopped filling, so i took it out, looked inside the bottom of it and found that seal, it was falling apart. The rest of the valve was working fine.
Yes I just replaced 2 full units only 3 yrs old.. In both the screw in filter in the bottom of the fill tube was obstructed. I suppose that causes slow fill and low pressure, and the top seal that he illustrates, cannot make enough downward pressure to push down and seal. I would be interested in this spiral filter also. BTW just pull out with needle nose pliers. Thanks to both of you!!
Will this valve still work well in a very low pressure (not mains connected) situation as it appears some pressure is required to press on the rubber seal.
I’m not understanding your question completely. You asked will it work with no mains connected. Are you asking if it will still work with the water supply not connected? If so, the answer is no.
@morganinspectionservices3840 Thanks for replying. I live in a flat, my toilet cistern seems to be fed from a low pressure header tank (head 0.5-1 m). I installed a new replacement fill valve (not a fluid master) as the cistern was overflowing but now it's filling very slowly by drips (1 hr+! ). By removing the fill valve the water flows quite well out of the half inch feed pipe notwithstanding the low pressure. So I suspect the new fill valve is drastically restricting the pressure. I was asking you if the valve you so beautifully described would likewise reduce the pressure or could you advise another type of valve filler valve ?
Wow, I had no idea! I've replaced those rubber seals a few times to repair valves, and opened up the valves to flush out grit more times than I can count. Yet I had no idea the intricacy of that valve stem. I have one that is slow to start filling (float drops, nothing happens). Sometimes it waits a second or two and sometimes up to 30 second delay before water starts flowing. Now I know where to look!
Thanks for your comment. I’ll be honest. I had no idea how this thing worked either - until I started researching it. The reason I researched it is because I could not imagine how that little metal rod/stem could start and stop the flow of water. I was really amazed when I learned the mystery of it.
There is a "sound modifier spiral rubbery device in the lower fill tube. It can be removed. " per Fluidmaster. Can this device get obstructed and cause low fill pressure, causing the upper seal valve to not seal off?
I have seen this spiral device in the bottom of the fill valve, get clogged and not allow the fill valve to work well, but I believe that with any amount of pressure, there will be more force above the rubber seal than below it, so I think it will hold the seal closed and not allow the valve to leak.
The rod is actually the valve stem, it is brilliant. I suspect that the grooves in the valve stem can also become corroded and that will cause the valve to stay open. I replaced the rubber seal and the valve still refused to close. I replaced the top half with a new one and that works. So I am soaking the old one in vinegar and will inspect it more closely later. Thanks for this video.
Interesting. Just today, 12 oct, '24, i purchased kit #385 to fix a running toilet. I noticed the stem is smooth, as is the one in the existing fill valve in my toilet. I also purchased part # 242 (seal only). After replacing the seal only thea toilet makes no signs of slowing the water after 2nd fliah. Replaced the entire valve unit and I get the same results.
I cannot answer that question. I was surprised what I learned when I started researching this. I could not understand how that small silver rod could stop and start water flow simply by moving a quarter inch or so. I was surprised to learn just how precisely both the rubber seal and the stem must be manufactured, and how they work together to do what they do.
Seriously, I had NO expectation that this would turn out to be as interesting and sophisticated a video as it is. Thank you!
Thanks so much for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed it. I hope many others do as well.
Awesome video. I always wondered how that small metal rod made that valve turn on and off. Amazing!
Thanks so much for your feedback, Dennis.
Your explanation is fascinating! Best ever on how the fill valve works. Appreciate it!
Would you consider making videos for garden irrigation control valves? That one is also a magic to me (and I've got enough headaches from fixing it). I've seen many videos/animations on that one. But none at your level of clarity.
I assume you were talking about the solenoid valves that control sprinkler systems?
@morganinspectionservices3840 yes, something like anti-siphon solenoid valves.
Finally someone explains how this works ("flow this, pressure that") and not the dozens of videos of how it operates ("the water rises and the float closes the valve").
I'm yet to find out how do the ones without center pin (but a small hole that is closed by the float rising) work, but now I can brag about knowing this 😉
Thanks!
Thanks for watching! Thanks for the feedback. I’ll consider doing one on the other style (once I learn how it works).
Great presentation. I have used these for years and had no idea of the details ...👍
Thanks
You've done a fine job of explaining the action of the valve, thank you. There is, however, one omission that needs to be clarified and might help viewers to understand why the valve closes and stays closed. @6:52 the diagram is most helpful. The pressure above, below and through the small blue pathways is always the same as the house pipe pressure. So if the house water pressure is 50 psi, then all those areas are also 50 psi. What makes the difference in FORCE that enables the valve seal to push down is that the surface area at the top of the seal, where you have the 4 black arrows, is greater than the blue-grey area that presses against the bottom of the seal. The blue-grey is the source for all the water and pressure. So if, say, the total surface area of the top of the seal is one square inch, then there is 50 pounds of force pushing down (50 pounds per square inch, psi). If the surface area of the underside of the seal is, say, one quarter of a square inch (the equivalent of 1/2 x 1/2 inch) then the upward force is 12 1/2 pounds. Naturally the 50 pounds will overcome the 12 1/2 and hold the seal against the incoming water. I don't know the exact surface area dimensions of the seal, but in reality the tolerances could be much tighter and 20 lbs will overcome 15, etc. Again, splendid job. I'm sure this video took a few hours to make.
Thank you so much for the feedback. I just may redo the video and add that information. I really appreciate you watching and commenting.
I have a fluidmaster, yet NOBODY on youtube has made a video about what the little spiral shaped rubber seal inside the bottom of the unit does. Do you have that seal inside yours? We do in Australia. All i can assume is that its a flow restrictor, or a piece of junk that is purposely put there to break down over time causing one to have to buy a brand new refill valve. My refill valve stopped filling, so i took it out, looked inside the bottom of it and found that seal, it was falling apart. The rest of the valve was working fine.
I will have to do some research. I do not know what spiral piece you are referring to.
Yes I just replaced 2 full units only 3 yrs old.. In both the screw in filter in the bottom of the fill tube was obstructed. I suppose that causes slow fill and low pressure, and the top seal that he illustrates, cannot make enough downward pressure to push down and seal.
I would be interested in this spiral filter also. BTW just pull out with needle nose pliers. Thanks to both of you!!
Fluidmaster calls this a sound modifier and says it can be removed. Could it get blocked?
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Will this valve still work well in a very low pressure (not mains connected) situation as it appears some pressure is required to press on the rubber seal.
I’m not understanding your question completely. You asked will it work with no mains connected. Are you asking if it will still work with the water supply not connected? If so, the answer is no.
@morganinspectionservices3840 Thanks for replying. I live in a flat, my toilet cistern seems to be fed from a low pressure header tank (head 0.5-1 m). I installed a new replacement fill valve (not a fluid master) as the cistern was overflowing but now it's filling very slowly by drips (1 hr+! ). By removing the fill valve the water flows quite well out of the half inch feed pipe notwithstanding the low pressure. So I suspect the new fill valve is drastically restricting the pressure. I was asking you if the valve you so beautifully described would likewise reduce the pressure or could you advise another type of valve filler valve ?
Wow, I had no idea! I've replaced those rubber seals a few times to repair valves, and opened up the valves to flush out grit more times than I can count. Yet I had no idea the intricacy of that valve stem.
I have one that is slow to start filling (float drops, nothing happens). Sometimes it waits a second or two and sometimes up to 30 second delay before water starts flowing. Now I know where to look!
Thanks for your comment. I’ll be honest. I had no idea how this thing worked either - until I started researching it. The reason I researched it is because I could not imagine how that little metal rod/stem could start and stop the flow of water. I was really amazed when I learned the mystery of it.
There is a "sound modifier spiral rubbery device in the lower fill tube. It can be removed. " per Fluidmaster. Can this device get obstructed and cause low fill pressure, causing the upper seal valve to not seal off?
I have seen this spiral device in the bottom of the fill valve, get clogged and not allow the fill valve to work well, but I believe that with any amount of pressure, there will be more force above the rubber seal than below it, so I think it will hold the seal closed and not allow the valve to leak.
Thanks
@@mikeb6389 you’re welcome
The rod is actually the valve stem, it is brilliant. I suspect that the grooves in the valve stem can also become corroded and that will cause the valve to stay open. I replaced the rubber seal and the valve still refused to close. I replaced the top half with a new one and that works. So I am soaking the old one in vinegar and will inspect it more closely later. Thanks for this video.
I appreciate the info and your feedback. Thanks for watching.
Following up, the metal rod was badly corroded so that further explains why it stopped working.
Interesting. Just today, 12 oct, '24, i purchased kit #385 to fix a running toilet. I noticed the stem is smooth, as is the one in the existing fill valve in my toilet. I also purchased part # 242 (seal only). After replacing the seal only thea toilet makes no signs of slowing the water after 2nd fliah. Replaced the entire valve unit and I get the same results.
When you say you replaced the entire valve unit, are you talking the seal and the stem, or are you talking the entire fill valve?
@@morganinspectionservices3840 the fill valve.
Why is this such a complex design?
I cannot answer that question. I was surprised what I learned when I started researching this. I could not understand how that small silver rod could stop and start water flow simply by moving a quarter inch or so. I was surprised to learn just how precisely both the rubber seal and the stem must be manufactured, and how they work together to do what they do.
Thanks
Welcome