Small Problem: IT DOESN'T WORK. The video doesn't show a working engine, none of the organisations has published any work in regards to the engine performance or any designs for peer review.
they haven't even shown that the proposed geometry works. first build a prototype with as many parts as you want, machined surfaces, bearings and then talk about a print-in-place fluidic bearing tolerances
i wonder how those "sintered", or "multicrystalline and slightly porous" blade assemblies will hold up with centrifugal forces when some heat is thrown at them... inconel is all good and well, but arent we also taught about the "advanced technology" where certain turbine blades are "grown" as one "crystal" with no grain interfaces? then theres the whole design aspect of high speed shafts, and rotating assemblies... lessons well documented by say, gustav delaval and charles parsons well over a century ago... human race is getting stupider. the more i look at this "hi tech", the more i start to ask... "whats it all for? whats the end goal here, of civilisation?" and the older i get, the more i tend to want to throw it all away and just watch the grass grow and smell the flowers... as for these types of videos... talk about dumbing it down... can open a book from a century ago and learn something, easily and clearly explained... these days, everythings either primary school level, whilst ignoring vital aspects that merely cause confusion and misconceptions, or its university level with equations, equations, theory, and little to no practical application... and a lot of hard work to undo all those previously mis-learnt principles.
@@paradiselost9946 You are falling victim to the survival bias. Since we industrialized what you mention has been common to a lesser or bigger degree. Nevertheless after a century only the useful knowledge has survived, thus we have the impression they used to generate only useful knowledge back then.
@@paradiselost9946 You see it's tendency to take out everything from people and make it out of their reach. You don't have a 3D printer which can print things out of metal powder? Well, you have to BUY those things instead. If ANY part of this "engine" fails, you have to BUY WHOLE engine instead of broken part. You don't have such money? Well thats your problem. Old machinery, including cars, was build back in the days in the way that was fixable. Now we have to fight like Louis Rossmann for rights to repair... Agenda 2030 is pushed harder and harder because we are getting closer to this date each year.
Very interesting. Bearings of course are the critical component to see continued reusability. I was really hoping to see a demonstration of this engine lighting off.
@@danamyrocket I understand that. It was clearly not done here. The design relies on a fluid bearing created by fuel in the spinning shaft / housing "bearing" zones. This bearing breaks down as the shaft slows down. At startup, there is no bearing at all, until revs are high enough for a hydrodynamic bearing to form between surfaces. The design may be made such that a break-in period is required to ensure proper mating of surfaces to best support later functionality. Kind of like a Babbit bearing. First uses will be in drones, likely as these appear to be of limited planned lifespan. There is no opportunity to repair either, unless they are made of a few more components. All of this said, you might be able to create from four parts, shaft, "housing" in three parts. With some easy light machining to surfaces, more durable bearings could be placed, thereby making the shaft and bearings, serviceable. This would also afford the opportunity to balance the shaft. As printed, it will definitely not be of precision balance, without fairly extensive machining.
The intent is to use a "hydrostatic bearing". The engine fuel will be injected into the void between the stator and the rotor, and then circulated into the combustion chamber
$50-$75 K for a turbine of this size? This guy is delusional. You can buy a Jetcat with 50kg thrust for 15K euro. This includes supporting items like pumps, FADEC etc. If these engineers were honest with themselves and their stakeholders there would be fewer project failures
So where is the fuel pump, electronics, sensors, valves? It's not an engine, it's two assemblies that have been consolidated. It's basically a casting blank that's veeeeery complicated.
@@mitchellstrobbe7779well there's an argument to be made that it can be applied for power grid generation where weight is irrelevant as the company iterates over it. Then move back to aircraft once the weight is brought down enough for it to be viable
Power grid generation, using turbo jet engines?? Do you know how crazy that sounds?.. This really only has one/few time use for unmanned military applications, in my humble opinion..
Hey I'm not going to pretend I know what I'm talking about, but I think a turbo jet engine, is a bit different from a gas turbine? Same principle and all, just like a turbo charger is.. But to my limited knowledge, a turbo jet engine isn't exactly good on fuel, so I don't know what the BTU conversion units would be like (or however you want to measure efficiency) Would have to be a better way? Unless fuel usage, is not a consideration.. Seeing as they are calling them the Israeli MIT, I doubt civilian use cases are high on the list of their priorities. But, I honestly, do not really know what I'm talking about and happy to say, that I was wrong 👍
I'm all in for built-in heat echangers, complex functional integration, and pushing the exercise as far as conceptually possible. But really, an engine rotating at 50,000rpm with an unbalanced rotor which bearing surfaces are unmachined, and zero way to inspect before assembly ? Even supposing this is a throaway engine for one time use drones, to me that's unrealistic.
I’m an enthusiast of 4D industry and I like so much when I see such projects. I believe in a short period of time we will have this Jet Engine up and running. As he told, $10-15k for this engine made with inconel is a huge deal. Great
Very impressive beginning. One of the greatest issues with gas turbines is dealing with rotating high temperature components. Currently, this is addressed with some very advanced materials. It will be interesting to see how 3D printed materials can deal with this. Current aircraft engines require inspection and maintenance. Components are removed, inspected, reworked or discarded when required. Some rework could be completed in the 3D printed design, but it is limited. For short term applications, such as weapon systems, these issues are not as significant. I hope this technology is also used for some non destructive things.
If you take a close look on those schematics of the engine, you will notice, that there is no cavity in that engine that is not either part of the air or fuel flow. so no extra channels necessary, because they are already all connected.
This is indeed quite amazing. However, I would like to caution the Israeli maestros of this work to beware of being too academic in their approach, if indeed their goal is commercialization. For example, there appears to have been a considerable effort spent on the bearings, and at the end I think I understood the bearing is still deficient. And this is completely understandable, since bearings are a very special technology in and of themselves. With that in mind I’d like to suggest not to look at this as a one print does everything solution. That is really being disingenuous to the other advanced technologies that have to come together to make an engine work. I’m not saying stop working on a two parts one print technology. However, if you want to actually DO something with this today, don’t try to solve ALL the world’s problems in one go. Instead, be prepared to split it up where it makes sense. For example, I don’t think you will be able to get an acceptable bearing in the near future. But I don’t think you have to. Use 3D printing where it is natural to do so,and don’t where it doesn’t. It makes sense where that rats nest maze of burn chambers and mixing labyrinth are. It does not make sense for bearings. It is no sin to break you print into a couple of easy to assemble pieces. I saw a number of ways the prints could be split to allow access for conventional bearing milling and installation. The shaft could be made a 2 piece design for easier assembly if desired. Your 3D parts have addressed the hard parts. Don’t make it harder by not exploiting the ability to also divide the single part into a few assemblable parts with a high benefit.
Combine as many of the components as you can that provide fuel flow, cooling, combustion and exhaust, with the most critical combining principle being location & temperature such that the cold fuel flow can cool only in the right places, the warmed fuel flow can then combust in only the right place, and the exhaust only moves in one direction, directed by the cooled exhaust manifold. *AMAZING ENGINEERING*
The surfaces are quite rough, I wonder if there are parts inside this engine that need to be polished in order to perform as expected... How do they polish them in such unreachable places?
ALL 3d prints must have the critical surfaces machined, e.g. mating surfaces, sealing surfaces, datum/assembly surfaces, dowel pin holes, threaded holes, and bearing seats. However, most surfaces do not need tight 5-axis tolerances and can get by with a 0.030" surface profile that printing provides.
“2 pieces except one piece has been divided in half.” THATS 3 PIECES! Another piece would be a bearing… I am sure there would be more than one of those in a working model. Also you have to add fuel so there’s probably a fuel pump and some tubing to deliver the fuel to some kind of injector. Don’t forget the clamps and the mounts and all the pieces that attach all of this together. Wait… There’s more! And there’s way more than two pieces. You can’t reduce a jet turbine down to just two pieces no matter how you spin it!
Mainly just proof of concept of the extremes they can go to. Production would be more like you said serviceable. But, I can see a model that is not serviceable being used on attack drones as they could be single use and the engine would be destroyed anyway. Space X is using these kinds of designs on their new Raptor engines. Its crazy small/efficient for the power it puts out.
That's a really cool demonstrator! There are some geometries that you just can not machine. period. Plus you are working with only the material you need and not machining 95% away which can be a pain and very expensive in superalloys. Really good job right there! Way to go.
3DP at 120 to 200 thousand RPM? To be efficient, the Vane clearances have to be sub 10 to sub 5 thousandths of an inch. Obviously this was a low resolution repro. But in this rendition there isn't a contact ring that can prevent journal or blade/vane contact. But there is a British Helo upstart that is building everything in house. Composite fuse, rotors, and skids, to in house machining, and 3DP turbine parts in house. He's suggesting 500K pounds UK, for a Turbine powered 4 seater. Looks fantastic. He has my vote for innovator of the year.
Being a layman, my first thought when watching this was... How do they intend to lubricate the rotor? At around 1130, they intend(ed) to use fuel, and create a liquid bearing. However, even he stated that while their tolerances are outstanding in a manufacturing sense, not so great for a liquid bearing. I love the idea, I love the engineering, I love the amount of work put into it. I think maybe at some point we can make functional single print engines, but until I see this run, this is just a theoretical prototype print.
Impressive. The finish is a little rough for high speed air and compression, and I'm curious to see how it retains it's tolerances under the high heat of combustion. I could see this as an engine for a something that's single use like a ordinance drone or cruise missile.
Just want to point out that long-term use is not planned. For cruise missile use, it would need a 3-4 hour lifespan max. So this could be a more disposable jet engine.
Enjoying this so much. Math, 3d, manufacturing, microstructures, designs ohh and the list goes on. I'm still inspired by the heat exchanger for the helicopter oil.
This is beyond fascinating. Wow doesnt begin to capture the wonder and potential of this. Even if its not great, this is so good for defense as is. Imagine just more accessible turbine period!
Concept only. This thing would not run. Turbines spin very fast. It has to be perfectly balanced. Printed as an assembly, there is no way to put in bearings. Ceramic bearings are required at this size engine. The turbine wheel is a very poor design. The entire thing would have to be printed in Inconel 625 and heat treated before it could withstand the heat. So many things that would have to change. Still, cool concept and maybe someday something like this will happen. I pri Ted a turbine in 2013 that runs. The average viewer will think this is much closer to reality than it actually is.
Assuming bearing problem somehow got solved, I would think that turbine + compressor assembly is not balanced enough for the RPM ranges this engine needs. What about heat treatment? I doubt that geometry that complicated could be heat treated as a single piece.
I’m as fascinated as anyone about 3D printing so I would’ve watched this without the baiting. It is not a working engine, which is no problem for me. It is a thought exercise and model for future development. Could you not have expressed that in your video’s title?
Wow! The military will love these but everyone can benefit from the tech if they can get the cost low enough. (and put them in cars to run on used french fry oil, heh heh)
An interesting academic exercise, but only that, turbochargers used one piece cast fans 35 years ago, the materials are superalloys don't think they'll be able to print many of those
it'll never run. if they do get it to run, I bet it won't look anything like this when they do. They're severely compromising the design to be able to print it with minimum parts and there's really no need to keep the parts count that low.
There's no way they could just 3d print a normal (RC turbine-type) shell with the combustion chamber, outside surfaces, etc and stick in a machined compressor, main shaft, and turbine with some bearings? seems like it'd be a more reasonable approach.
Very interresting desin. Nevertheless the Hachile Heel of this engine is the fluid bearing. I'm sure this one if it ever runs by itself, must require a very high fluid pressure to maintain the bearing. I can see they want to build very simple drones. Another issue in a drone is stong lateral accelerations, inducing brutal movments of the floating rotor. I would rather add two ball bearings at the end of the print, keep 4 or 6 pieces, and create a very strong and reliable engine. (because anyway you need a fuel pump, electronic control and so on...
it will be heavy. You will need to print the entire engine in inconel but the entire engine doesnt have to be inconel. many parts can be aluminum that are not in the hot zone. This will make the engine twice as heavy as it has to be . Human labor is the cheapest part of the equation. This doesnt really solve anything
This is a very interesting concept; but it’s an engine that will have a very narrow thrust range. There’s no air management systems on this; no guide vanes or bleed air controllers. This engine will have the same problem as the jet engines of the 1940s. This is a one way engine; so if you’re powering a missile then great. But if you want to land the airplane this would be attached to you’re going to have a problem. Even an industrial turbine needs to have modulating power output in 99% of applications.
Is this an open source project? Has the engine been test run and if so how long can it run? What fuels can it run on? Could it run on hydrogen, what about steam?
One engine, two parts and whole lot of bs. It's same as saying you made perpetual motion machine that will change the world, but you have no data or any footage of it running and just slap a label "proof of concept" and seeing how expensive SLS is even today it's still more economical and more reliable to make jet engines out of machined parts that you can easily replace if they break.
Normally a bearing surface has a very accurate and smooth surface. I’m sure their printer is better than average but it’s still not going to print bearing grade surfaces
Выглядит интересно, но как этот двигатель может стартовать? Газодинамический подшипник это интересно, но плохо работает на старте. Идеально вырастить такую массивную вращающуюся деталь внутри... А как это можно отбалансировать? Камера сгорания занимает очень большой объем и содержит очень много препятствий для газовых потоков в виде литейных поддержек - это очень важно - чем выше скорость истечения газов из камеры сгорания, тем лучше работает двигатель. Здесь это невозможно. Ещё важный момент - качество поверхностей - все детали ГТД должны быть гладкими, а лучше полированными. Это скорее пневматический тормоз, чем газотурбинный двигатель 😊
pretty rough surfaces isn't ? for flow reasons. Have they tested it in anything that , say generates power (electricity) - and how does the same fuel in/electricity out compare to a traditionally built one ? lifetime hours before failure ? no need to rebuilt - is it just unit swap ? Interesting options !
No bearings? No valves, nozzles, no maintenance ports?? How do you Borescope inspect this? I don’t believe I will ever see this in production aviation ever. A cool sci-fi concept and some of the ideas there can be developed but it should not be presented as a practical solution.
Bro I've been designing a 3d printed turbojet for 4 months now interesting to see their designs. BUT their designs are wayyy too complicated geometrically, like how are you ever going to fix the turbine wheel if it chips. My design it based off the KJ66, Gr180. My engine is composed of just 8 parts and cost, around 500$, 350 being the cheapest version.
Looks like a gimmick. Cool concept but some impractical aspects. Good exercise, but I’d be surprised if it would fly in present form. Introduction to some future possibilities…
they don't say how much power they expect this to make, but it's not going to be much. that tiny little compressor isn't going to generate high pressure. it's not clear how that hydrostatic bearing is fed, andit looks like it would be leaky. there are 2 other bearing areas at the ends that they don't discuss. no explanation about maint and inspections. no explanation about fuel feed or how combustion occurs. interesting idea, but i'd be shocked if it worked.
Printed pre-assembled Soooooo There's no great way to balance the turbine assembly that needs to turn 10's of thousands of RPMs? All printed from the Same Alloy (likely high nickel content or exotics like Ti, HastX or Inco) .007" gap would be big even for the Crank-Rod interface in a reciprocating engine. During spool up, pre ignition, fuel pressure will be lowest so bearing is in most compromised state, probably would friction weld the rotating assy to the housing before it bulges from the over fueled hot start. *WhooooooOOOOOOsh BRICK*
If they just printed it in 3 parts they could remove and balance the rotating part and add bearings. In two parts its impossible and just makes an expensive paperwight
This all sounds very gimmicky. The rough surface of the blades is going to create a lot of turbulence. Single stage radial compressor will always be inferior to axial setup. Not that this can't be changed, but at this stage this proves nothing.
Why not be a little bit more precise what I'm saying is put a little bit more attention to the beauty of it being very smooth unless attention to putting your emblems embedded in the sides of the rotor fluid dynamics aren't doing their job if they're letting you put their emblems all over the outside of the rotor
Won't work. Plain and simple. There's simply not enough conversion area to produce reasonable output. You could resolve the bearing issue, and build it from insanely expensive zirconia... it still won't work. It needs to be longer and a larger diameter. The output volume needs to be larger. The surface area for power conversion needs to SIGNIFICANTLY larger.
Small Problem: IT DOESN'T WORK. The video doesn't show a working engine, none of the organisations has published any work in regards to the engine performance or any designs for peer review.
they haven't even shown that the proposed geometry works. first build a prototype with as many parts as you want, machined surfaces, bearings and then talk about a print-in-place fluidic bearing tolerances
Exact.
i wonder how those "sintered", or "multicrystalline and slightly porous" blade assemblies will hold up with centrifugal forces when some heat is thrown at them... inconel is all good and well, but arent we also taught about the "advanced technology" where certain turbine blades are "grown" as one "crystal" with no grain interfaces?
then theres the whole design aspect of high speed shafts, and rotating assemblies... lessons well documented by say, gustav delaval and charles parsons well over a century ago...
human race is getting stupider.
the more i look at this "hi tech", the more i start to ask... "whats it all for? whats the end goal here, of civilisation?"
and the older i get, the more i tend to want to throw it all away and just watch the grass grow and smell the flowers...
as for these types of videos... talk about dumbing it down...
can open a book from a century ago and learn something, easily and clearly explained... these days, everythings either primary school level, whilst ignoring vital aspects that merely cause confusion and misconceptions, or its university level with equations, equations, theory, and little to no practical application... and a lot of hard work to undo all those previously mis-learnt principles.
@@paradiselost9946 You are falling victim to the survival bias. Since we industrialized what you mention has been common to a lesser or bigger degree. Nevertheless after a century only the useful knowledge has survived, thus we have the impression they used to generate only useful knowledge back then.
@@paradiselost9946 You see it's tendency to take out everything from people and make it out of their reach. You don't have a 3D printer which can print things out of metal powder? Well, you have to BUY those things instead. If ANY part of this "engine" fails, you have to BUY WHOLE engine instead of broken part. You don't have such money? Well thats your problem. Old machinery, including cars, was build back in the days in the way that was fixable. Now we have to fight like Louis Rossmann for rights to repair... Agenda 2030 is pushed harder and harder because we are getting closer to this date each year.
Very nice sculpture. It looks like a jet engine. 😂
Probably going to be a disposable engine for a missile or something like that.
That actually does seem like a cool idea
Very interesting. Bearings of course are the critical component to see continued reusability. I was really hoping to see a demonstration of this engine lighting off.
There are some techniques where “inserts” can be placed into an assembly during the “printing” process.
Yep. I.e., it won't work. 3D printed bearing? Please. (Let's see this engine running.)
its not a reusable engine
@@danamyrocket I understand that. It was clearly not done here. The design relies on a fluid bearing created by fuel in the spinning shaft / housing "bearing" zones. This bearing breaks down as the shaft slows down. At startup, there is no bearing at all, until revs are high enough for a hydrodynamic bearing to form between surfaces. The design may be made such that a break-in period is required to ensure proper mating of surfaces to best support later functionality. Kind of like a Babbit bearing. First uses will be in drones, likely as these appear to be of limited planned lifespan. There is no opportunity to repair either, unless they are made of a few more components. All of this said, you might be able to create from four parts, shaft, "housing" in three parts. With some easy light machining to surfaces, more durable bearings could be placed, thereby making the shaft and bearings, serviceable. This would also afford the opportunity to balance the shaft. As printed, it will definitely not be of precision balance, without fairly extensive machining.
The intent is to use a "hydrostatic bearing". The engine fuel will be injected into the void between the stator and the rotor, and then circulated into the combustion chamber
$50-$75 K for a turbine of this size? This guy is delusional. You can buy a Jetcat with 50kg thrust for 15K euro. This includes supporting items like pumps, FADEC etc.
If these engineers were honest with themselves and their stakeholders there would be fewer project failures
PBS engines are around $80k.
So where is the fuel pump, electronics, sensors, valves? It's not an engine, it's two assemblies that have been consolidated. It's basically a casting blank that's veeeeery complicated.
It also looks heavy af for how big the compressor and turbine are
@@mitchellstrobbe7779well there's an argument to be made that it can be applied for power grid generation where weight is irrelevant as the company iterates over it. Then move back to aircraft once the weight is brought down enough for it to be viable
Power grid generation, using turbo jet engines??
Do you know how crazy that sounds?..
This really only has one/few time use for unmanned military applications, in my humble opinion..
@@jfair7050 buddy all the fast load pickup units are gas turbines
Hey I'm not going to pretend I know what I'm talking about, but I think a turbo jet engine, is a bit different from a gas turbine? Same principle and all, just like a turbo charger is..
But to my limited knowledge, a turbo jet engine isn't exactly good on fuel, so I don't know what the BTU conversion units would be like (or however you want to measure efficiency)
Would have to be a better way? Unless fuel usage, is not a consideration..
Seeing as they are calling them the Israeli MIT, I doubt civilian use cases are high on the list of their priorities.
But, I honestly, do not really know what I'm talking about and happy to say, that I was wrong 👍
I'm all in for built-in heat echangers, complex functional integration, and pushing the exercise as far as conceptually possible. But really, an engine rotating at 50,000rpm with an unbalanced rotor which bearing surfaces are unmachined, and zero way to inspect before assembly ? Even supposing this is a throaway engine for one time use drones, to me that's unrealistic.
Is there a video somewhere which shows this gas turbine running?
I’m an enthusiast of 4D industry and I like so much when I see such projects. I believe in a short period of time we will have this Jet Engine up and running. As he told, $10-15k for this engine made with inconel is a huge deal. Great
Every time you show us something interesting.
Keep up the good job!!!!
If only we could see it working.
Very impressive beginning. One of the greatest issues with gas turbines is dealing with rotating high temperature components. Currently, this is addressed with some very advanced materials. It will be interesting to see how 3D printed materials can deal with this. Current aircraft engines require inspection and maintenance. Components are removed, inspected, reworked or discarded when required. Some rework could be completed in the 3D printed design, but it is limited. For short term applications, such as weapon systems, these issues are not as significant. I hope this technology is also used for some non destructive things.
Channels have to be integrated into the design in order to allow the excess powder to be removed in post-processing.
How is that done ?
If you take a close look on those schematics of the engine, you will notice, that there is no cavity in that engine that is not either part of the air or fuel flow. so no extra channels necessary, because they are already all connected.
And why they didn't show the engine running? Well, it sounds too good to be true and so it is.
This is indeed quite amazing. However, I would like to caution the Israeli maestros of this work to beware of being too academic in their approach, if indeed their goal is commercialization. For example, there appears to have been a considerable effort spent on the bearings, and at the end I think I understood the bearing is still deficient. And this is completely understandable, since bearings are a very special technology in and of themselves. With that in mind I’d like to suggest not to look at this as a one print does everything solution. That is really being disingenuous to the other advanced technologies that have to come together to make an engine work. I’m not saying stop working on a two parts one print technology. However, if you want to actually DO something with this today, don’t try to solve ALL the world’s problems in one go. Instead, be prepared to split it up where it makes sense. For example, I don’t think you will be able to get an acceptable bearing in the near future. But I don’t think you have to. Use 3D printing where it is natural to do so,and don’t where it doesn’t. It makes sense where that rats nest maze of burn chambers and mixing labyrinth are. It does not make sense for bearings. It is no sin to break you print into a couple of easy to assemble pieces. I saw a number of ways the prints could be split to allow access for conventional bearing milling and installation. The shaft could be made a 2 piece design for easier assembly if desired. Your 3D parts have addressed the hard parts. Don’t make it harder by not exploiting the ability to also divide the single part into a few assemblable parts with a high benefit.
Honestly, true : ( Its easy to get carried away and then nothing works. Dont forget to capture what benefit already exists.
Combine as many of the components as you can that provide fuel flow, cooling, combustion and exhaust, with the most critical combining principle being location & temperature such that the cold fuel flow can cool only in the right places, the warmed fuel flow can then combust in only the right place, and the exhaust only moves in one direction, directed by the cooled exhaust manifold. *AMAZING ENGINEERING*
The surfaces are quite rough, I wonder if there are parts inside this engine that need to be polished in order to perform as expected... How do they polish them in such unreachable places?
How do you insure high tolerances for parts that were 3d printed which have pretty poor tolerances.
ALL 3d prints must have the critical surfaces machined, e.g. mating surfaces, sealing surfaces, datum/assembly surfaces, dowel pin holes, threaded holes, and bearing seats. However, most surfaces do not need tight 5-axis tolerances and can get by with a 0.030" surface profile that printing provides.
“2 pieces except one piece has been divided in half.” THATS 3 PIECES!
Another piece would be a bearing… I am sure there would be more than one of those in a working model. Also you have to add fuel so there’s probably a fuel pump and some tubing to deliver the fuel to some kind of injector. Don’t forget the clamps and the mounts and all the pieces that attach all of this together. Wait… There’s more! And there’s way more than two pieces.
You can’t reduce a jet turbine down to just two pieces no matter how you spin it!
Exactly 💯!!
They need to make the outer shell 2 parts so the jet can have maintenance
Depends on what it's going in. Reuse and efficiency is probably not the strength of this design.
Yeah, no. No serviceable parts.
Why service it if you can just pribt a new one?
Mainly just proof of concept of the extremes they can go to. Production would be more like you said serviceable. But, I can see a model that is not serviceable being used on attack drones as they could be single use and the engine would be destroyed anyway. Space X is using these kinds of designs on their new Raptor engines. Its crazy small/efficient for the power it puts out.
That's a really cool demonstrator! There are some geometries that you just can not machine. period. Plus you are working with only the material you need and not machining 95% away which can be a pain and very expensive in superalloys. Really good job right there! Way to go.
3DP at 120 to 200 thousand RPM? To be efficient, the Vane clearances have to be sub 10 to sub 5 thousandths of an inch. Obviously this was a low resolution repro. But in this rendition there isn't a contact ring that can prevent journal or blade/vane contact.
But there is a British Helo upstart that is building everything in house. Composite fuse, rotors, and skids, to in house machining, and 3DP turbine parts in house. He's suggesting 500K pounds UK, for a Turbine powered 4 seater. Looks fantastic. He has my vote for innovator of the year.
Being a layman, my first thought when watching this was... How do they intend to lubricate the rotor? At around 1130, they intend(ed) to use fuel, and create a liquid bearing. However, even he stated that while their tolerances are outstanding in a manufacturing sense, not so great for a liquid bearing. I love the idea, I love the engineering, I love the amount of work put into it. I think maybe at some point we can make functional single print engines, but until I see this run, this is just a theoretical prototype print.
Impressive. The finish is a little rough for high speed air and compression, and I'm curious to see how it retains it's tolerances under the high heat of combustion. I could see this as an engine for a something that's single use like a ordinance drone or cruise missile.
I’ve wondered if you could flow abrasive particles through the passages, post printing, to polish surfaces.
@@danamyrocket that is a thing!
Extrude Hone.
That rotor will rip itself apart. The whole thing needs to be stuck in a cnc machine and then balanced like a turbine blade.
Just want to point out that long-term use is not planned. For cruise missile use, it would need a 3-4 hour lifespan max. So this could be a more disposable jet engine.
I'll take a term from the youngins: Cap, all cap $tr8 caaaaaaaapP 🧢. Y'all fancy so 🎩.
Enjoying this so much. Math, 3d, manufacturing, microstructures, designs ohh and the list goes on.
I'm still inspired by the heat exchanger for the helicopter oil.
how do you effectively get all the un-fuzed powder out of something that complex ?
I had the same thought. Like how do you clean out those internal chambers filled with microlattices?
pressure washing with a solvent could help
Fantastic idea!
This is beyond fascinating. Wow doesnt begin to capture the wonder and potential of this. Even if its not great, this is so good for defense as is. Imagine just more accessible turbine period!
Everyone talks about basically simple things, but no one tries to reduce complex electronics.
Wait does this mean we're one step closer to making the hornet from halo 3?
GE Siemens and Mitsubishi will be all over that
This is cool stuff..!!
Concept only. This thing would not run. Turbines spin very fast. It has to be perfectly balanced. Printed as an assembly, there is no way to put in bearings. Ceramic bearings are required at this size engine. The turbine wheel is a very poor design. The entire thing would have to be printed in Inconel 625 and heat treated before it could withstand the heat. So many things that would have to change. Still, cool concept and maybe someday something like this will happen. I pri Ted a turbine in 2013 that runs.
The average viewer will think this is much closer to reality than it actually is.
Don't Care about the jet but I could use that printer
Assuming bearing problem somehow got solved, I would think that turbine + compressor assembly is not balanced enough for the RPM ranges this engine needs.
What about heat treatment? I doubt that geometry that complicated could be heat treated as a single piece.
I am a 3d Artist when I look at this I am just amazed there are sooooooooooooo smart people I would love to work on something like this 😮
I’m as fascinated as anyone about 3D printing so I would’ve watched this without the baiting. It is not a working engine, which is no problem for me. It is a thought exercise and model for future development. Could you not have expressed that in your video’s title?
Metal powder and sls is going the way of the dodo, thanks to me.
Wow! The military will love these but everyone can benefit from the tech if they can get the cost low enough.
(and put them in cars to run on used french fry oil, heh heh)
could magnetism along the rotor be used to stabilize it's rotation without bearings? It would aid the fuel flow to steady it.
No.... the operation the turbine would bring the metal to it's curie temperature.
An interesting academic exercise, but only that, turbochargers used one piece cast fans 35 years ago, the materials are superalloys don't think they'll be able to print many of those
it'll never run. if they do get it to run, I bet it won't look anything like this when they do. They're severely compromising the design to be able to print it with minimum parts and there's really no need to keep the parts count that low.
There's no way they could just 3d print a normal (RC turbine-type) shell with the combustion chamber, outside surfaces, etc and stick in a machined compressor, main shaft, and turbine with some bearings? seems like it'd be a more reasonable approach.
cool flower pot
Very interresting desin. Nevertheless the Hachile Heel of this engine is the fluid bearing. I'm sure this one if it ever runs by itself, must require a very high fluid pressure to maintain the bearing. I can see they want to build very simple drones. Another issue in a drone is stong lateral accelerations, inducing brutal movments of the floating rotor. I would rather add two ball bearings at the end of the print, keep 4 or 6 pieces, and create a very strong and reliable engine. (because anyway you need a fuel pump, electronic control and so on...
FYI it's a concept it doesn't work
When you're facing the camera you don't need goggles 😂
wtf! that's amazing
Its problem is common jet engine uses different material between cold and hot part.
it will be heavy. You will need to print the entire engine in inconel but the entire engine doesnt have to be inconel. many parts can be aluminum that are not in the hot zone. This will make the engine twice as heavy as it has to be . Human labor is the cheapest part of the equation. This doesnt really solve anything
So where's the test run footage? Bro, it could have been a scramjet, that would have been possible at least and in demand.
This is a very interesting concept; but it’s an engine that will have a very narrow thrust range. There’s no air management systems on this; no guide vanes or bleed air controllers. This engine will have the same problem as the jet engines of the 1940s. This is a one way engine; so if you’re powering a missile then great. But if you want to land the airplane this would be attached to you’re going to have a problem. Even an industrial turbine needs to have modulating power output in 99% of applications.
Is this an open source project?
Has the engine been test run and if so how long can it run?
What fuels can it run on? Could it run on hydrogen, what about steam?
One engine, two parts and whole lot of bs.
It's same as saying you made perpetual motion machine that will change the world, but you have no data or any footage of it running and just slap a label "proof of concept" and seeing how expensive SLS is even today it's still more economical and more reliable to make jet engines out of machined parts that you can easily replace if they break.
Normally a bearing surface has a very accurate and smooth surface. I’m sure their printer is better than average but it’s still not going to print bearing grade surfaces
Lets see it working then.
There are four lights. There are three pieces. What is this, a Cardassian outpost?
Not an engine till it runs.
It seems these people don't even understand what a jet engine is
So does it work?
How much did that non-working prototype cost to print?
edit: he said $10k to $15K if you own the printer
Выглядит интересно, но как этот двигатель может стартовать? Газодинамический подшипник это интересно, но плохо работает на старте. Идеально вырастить такую массивную вращающуюся деталь внутри... А как это можно отбалансировать?
Камера сгорания занимает очень большой объем и содержит очень много препятствий для газовых потоков в виде литейных поддержек - это очень важно - чем выше скорость истечения газов из камеры сгорания, тем лучше работает двигатель. Здесь это невозможно.
Ещё важный момент - качество поверхностей - все детали ГТД должны быть гладкими, а лучше полированными.
Это скорее пневматический тормоз, чем газотурбинный двигатель 😊
So why does this remind me of Norwell the Weasel? I found the original voice talent
only 2 parts?what about the ball bearings?
How that deasing deal with the RPM? i cant see any bearing. and rugosity is to high for air-cushin
2:07 ummm interesting hidrostatic bearing. Never i lisent it. Lets see it.
I wonder how small you could print this.
Just add bump foil air bearings patented by Capstone Turbine.
So.does it run?? Or is it just for show?
How about the bearings ???
I really doubt thaT it can handle technical issues regarding hardness, temperature changes, durability and other deep related stuff.
Perhaps bearing could be placed during the additive process.
aren't they saying the fuel is the bearing?
pretty rough surfaces isn't ? for flow reasons. Have they tested it in anything that , say generates power (electricity) - and how does the same fuel in/electricity out compare to a traditionally built one ? lifetime hours before failure ? no need to rebuilt - is it just unit swap ? Interesting options !
If surface roughness is an issue, it could be polished by abrasive flow machining.
Quite impressive, however, use bearings man
No bearings? No valves, nozzles, no maintenance ports?? How do you Borescope inspect this? I don’t believe I will ever see this in production aviation ever. A cool sci-fi concept and some of the ideas there can be developed but it should not be presented as a practical solution.
Bro I've been designing a 3d printed turbojet for 4 months now interesting to see their designs. BUT their designs are wayyy too complicated geometrically, like how are you ever going to fix the turbine wheel if it chips. My design it based off the KJ66, Gr180. My engine is composed of just 8 parts and cost, around 500$, 350 being the cheapest version.
Looks pretty ..Lets see it run..otherwise it's a concept
bearings? test run?
Is there an actual working prototype ...
Cool
Looks like a gimmick. Cool concept but some impractical aspects. Good exercise, but I’d be surprised if it would fly in present form.
Introduction to some future possibilities…
Tight clearance + extreme heat =? Lol
Simplified at 3 times the price.
At 10:58 "PESSURE DISTRIBUTION"
Where are the bearings?
Looks like they're gonna use the fuel as bearings
they don't say how much power they expect this to make, but it's not going to be much. that tiny little compressor isn't going to generate high pressure. it's not clear how that hydrostatic bearing is fed, andit looks like it would be leaky. there are 2 other bearing areas at the ends that they don't discuss. no explanation about maint and inspections. no explanation about fuel feed or how combustion occurs. interesting idea, but i'd be shocked if it worked.
The schematic at 2:05 already tells a lot.
Printed pre-assembled Soooooo There's no great way to balance the turbine assembly that needs to turn 10's of thousands of RPMs?
All printed from the Same Alloy (likely high nickel content or exotics like Ti, HastX or Inco)
.007" gap would be big even for the Crank-Rod interface in a reciprocating engine.
During spool up, pre ignition, fuel pressure will be lowest so bearing is in most compromised state,
probably would friction weld the rotating assy to the housing before it bulges from the over fueled hot start.
*WhooooooOOOOOOsh BRICK*
If they just printed it in 3 parts they could remove and balance the rotating part and add bearings. In two parts its impossible and just makes an expensive paperwight
Imprimir é facil o dificil é funcionar 😂
Everybody talks of the roughness but it makes me think of golfballs and sharkskin.
And where's it working???
No bearings? Print in place bearings not been ceramic, not serviceable? It’s good for suicide drones only!
This all sounds very gimmicky. The rough surface of the blades is going to create a lot of turbulence. Single stage radial compressor will always be inferior to axial setup. Not that this can't be changed, but at this stage this proves nothing.
IT DOESN'T WORK, there is no any bearings yet. This is only to represent CAD Skills to someone :D
Why not be a little bit more precise what I'm saying is put a little bit more attention to the beauty of it being very smooth unless attention to putting your emblems embedded in the sides of the rotor fluid dynamics aren't doing their job if they're letting you put their emblems all over the outside of the rotor
p.o.c. is fine.
Won't work. Plain and simple. There's simply not enough conversion area to produce reasonable output. You could resolve the bearing issue, and build it from insanely expensive zirconia... it still won't work. It needs to be longer and a larger diameter. The output volume needs to be larger. The surface area for power conversion needs to SIGNIFICANTLY larger.
Could it power a drone?
show it running.
Is this just a concept to gain VC investment