Almost same, Helix is a tad brighter, I'll pick the Helix any day over the amp, simply for ease of use and portability and how much more it can do over just a valve amp.
Great video! I'm a huge fan of your content :) The quest for the perfect tone often leads us down the rabbit hole of comparison, especially with the advancements in modeling technology. While it's true that the nuances between a modeler like the Line 6 Helix and an actual Dumble-not to ignore the fact a Dumble Clone was used for this video-can be dissected under a microscope, the question remains: is it worth it? In 2024, modeling technology is undeniably better than its ever been. Every modeler brings something incredible to the table, and the subjective nature of tone means that what resonates with one person may differ for another. It's fascinating to see how even the original Line 6 POD can produce stunning sounds with a modern IR, a testament to the foresight in preamp modeling and the leaps in IR technology. Yes, there are differences when we compare, but let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. The Helix is more than capable of getting you into the Dumble ballpark, and for many, that's more than enough. It's about the music. Embrace the technology that allows us to get closer to our sonic ideals without getting bogged down by the minutiae.
This guy can plug straight into the interface and just add a little reverb and make it sound good. So that has to be taken into account. Basicly the amp or guitar has to be broken for it to not sound good.
I correctly identified which was which (thought "A" sounded a bit richer), but that's because I knew there were two different setups. If I had not known that, I wouldn't have noticed the switch. It was that close.
Thanks for the comparison. They sounded so close that when I closed my eyes during the reveal, I could not tell when you were switching between the Amp and Helix. That makes another win for Helix. My guess is that the difference one experiences could be associated with volume. I know that every small changes I make on my HX Stomp's master volume knob can have a profound difference in what I experience through my Studio Monitoring Headphones. I use a Decibel Meter App to test how loud the sound is coming out of my headphone speakers. Anything over 85 Decibels is known to be dangerous. I usually play guitar at around 70-75 Decibels max.
The OD that's built in to the GSG amp model is quite constricting/reduces fidelity; if you switch that off and get the drive from one of the wider-response pedals (not the 808) you might find the clarity you're looking for..
I think any difference is very subtle though can believe that it feels different when you're actually playing it. These nuances may be hard to get across to a listener, particularly across TH-cam. If you have a means of capturing the real amp do these nuances copy across I wonder? Personally I've never bothered with 100% accuracy in modelling or capturing an amp tone I just want something that feels and sounds good to me playing or recording. For this reason I'll almost certably always go with the Helix (or other good modeller) just for the ease of use and being able to get so many different tones relatively easily.
It would be interesting if you put the actual amp (with loadbox) in the loop of the Helix with the same IR and FXs on both for easy switching between the two.
Great player first off and the video has what I am interested in. I cannot keep looking for on my HX Edit, are the meters you have in your HX Edit. Where is that setting? I'd love that on my end. Thanks again John.
I bought the presets, but my Helix won’t add the Dumble presets because it says my Helix doesn’t contain the models. 🤷♀️ Have you ever come across this?
On the ball with the Gumroad upload there JNC 👍 Post Reveal: The Amp sounded more touch responsive OR was it just a smidge louder ? Tone-wise pretty well matched 👍
I have a good ear. I could hardly tell the difference. Let's put it this way. The difference is so close how you built the preset it doesn't matter. I think note sustain on tube amps in general is one of the primary differences between modelers and real tube amps. It's an analog sine wave with harmonic components from pickup to final tube drive stage and speaker/cab. Getting the digital equivalent is so close these days.
Yes, it runs all the exact same models. You are just limited in the number of simultaneous models. Effectively, you only get the top signal path, not the bottom; however, JNC only used the top path so you should be able to run everything he did.
Had an original Line 6 amp and a SOB. The L6 always sounded thin and artificial. The SOB organic. Took the L6 send into the SOB from and voila a sound Im still searchng for.
Hats off to you. In many comparisons I see, the differences seem extremely subtle or non-existent. I usually keep my mouth shut lest I be accused of having inferior ears...
This VHT is a 183 preamplifier circuit with 6L6 output tubes as opposed to 183 using EL34s . I have built and repaired custom amplifiers for 45 years I actually bought one broken for Cheap 600.00 US repaired it and modified some components. They are decent for the buck if properly modified. There is still something different with the headroom and compression with tubes and the way they react fluidity . Solid state still feels abit rigid and harsh just my opinion .
@@Durkhead Actually Music Man amps of the 70s are solid-state preamp and tube power sections also early 70s Peaveys come to mind. If you get really technical most guitarists who use even vintage all tube amplifiers use a solid-state overdrives or distortion pedals first in the signal chain . But, there is something about tubes and all tube overdrives and natural compression that Feels better!
Here's an all analog solid-state amplifier I designed 14 years ago it has touch and feel but, not alot of headroom so many things come into play besides the amplifier people often overlook the pickups and their inductance value as well as dc resistance. The speaker used the type of guitar and its proximity to speaker which make things reactive . Also your emotion ,touch and feel .
Almost same, Helix is a tad brighter, I'll pick the Helix any day over the amp, simply for ease of use and portability and how much more it can do over just a valve amp.
Thanks John. So glad I joined your google drive share as the patch is now there! The gift that keeps on giving.
Brilliant tone , wow I love the zen drive tone
Yeah better than the compressor for sure.
Great video! I'm a huge fan of your content :)
The quest for the perfect tone often leads us down the rabbit hole of comparison, especially with the advancements in modeling technology. While it's true that the nuances between a modeler like the Line 6 Helix and an actual Dumble-not to ignore the fact a Dumble Clone was used for this video-can be dissected under a microscope, the question remains: is it worth it?
In 2024, modeling technology is undeniably better than its ever been. Every modeler brings something incredible to the table, and the subjective nature of tone means that what resonates with one person may differ for another. It's fascinating to see how even the original Line 6 POD can produce stunning sounds with a modern IR, a testament to the foresight in preamp modeling and the leaps in IR technology.
Yes, there are differences when we compare, but let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. The Helix is more than capable of getting you into the Dumble ballpark, and for many, that's more than enough. It's about the music. Embrace the technology that allows us to get closer to our sonic ideals without getting bogged down by the minutiae.
With your amp sim patch design experience John, I'm pretty sure the Helix can do most anything you want it to!
I would have to agree, the versatility and how close it sounds to real tube amp is amazing
This guy can plug straight into the interface and just add a little reverb and make it sound good. So that has to be taken into account. Basicly the amp or guitar has to be broken for it to not sound good.
I correctly identified which was which (thought "A" sounded a bit richer), but that's because I knew there were two different setups. If I had not known that, I wouldn't have noticed the switch. It was that close.
Can’t wait to download and try this today!
Thanks for the comparison. They sounded so close that when I closed my eyes during the reveal, I could not tell when you were switching between the Amp and Helix. That makes another win for Helix.
My guess is that the difference one experiences could be associated with volume. I know that every small changes I make on my HX Stomp's master volume knob can have a profound difference in what I experience through my Studio Monitoring Headphones.
I use a Decibel Meter App to test how loud the sound is coming out of my headphone speakers. Anything over 85 Decibels is known to be dangerous. I usually play guitar at around 70-75 Decibels max.
The OD that's built in to the GSG amp model is quite constricting/reduces fidelity; if you switch that off and get the drive from one of the wider-response pedals (not the 808) you might find the clarity you're looking for..
I think any difference is very subtle though can believe that it feels different when you're actually playing it.
These nuances may be hard to get across to a listener, particularly across TH-cam.
If you have a means of capturing the real amp do these nuances copy across I wonder?
Personally I've never bothered with 100% accuracy in modelling or capturing an amp tone I just want something that feels and sounds good to me playing or recording. For this reason I'll almost certably always go with the Helix (or other good modeller) just for the ease of use and being able to get so many different tones relatively easily.
It would be interesting if you put the actual amp (with loadbox) in the loop of the Helix with the same IR and FXs on both for easy switching between the two.
Great player first off and the video has what I am interested in. I cannot keep looking for on my HX Edit, are the meters you have in your HX Edit. Where is that setting? I'd love that on my end. Thanks again John.
Between the 2. Id say the amp has a little more width.
Not enough to tell after a second listen.
I assume A is the Dumble amp clone. Generally tube amps have a starting transient that is hard to replicate.
All of it sounds great to me.
Listening through my iPad speakers through TH-cams’ compressed signal, the digital facsimile sounds remarkably like the mid-priced clone.
Beautiful sounds! Thank you!!
I bought the presets, but my Helix won’t add the Dumble presets because it says my Helix doesn’t contain the models. 🤷♀️ Have you ever come across this?
Great video as always! Do you still stand by your G66 video where you imply the Fractal has better Dumble'esk tones?
Sound wise both sound good in my opinion! What is the interface you are using if I may ask? I always struggle with latency when playing with a plugin
On the ball with the Gumroad upload there JNC 👍
Post Reveal:
The Amp sounded more touch responsive OR was it just a smidge louder ?
Tone-wise pretty well matched 👍
has gumroad taken over from theGoogle drive patches?
I have a good ear. I could hardly tell the difference. Let's put it this way. The difference is so close how you built the preset it doesn't matter. I think note sustain on tube amps in general is one of the primary differences between modelers and real tube amps. It's an analog sine wave with harmonic components from pickup to final tube drive stage and speaker/cab. Getting the digital equivalent is so close these days.
How comes, that to me this settings sounds more like a synthesizer than a guitar ....
Nice! 👏🏻👏🏻
Those tones can be switched and you can't tell.
Can you get this on a hx stomp xl?
Yes, it runs all the exact same models. You are just limited in the number of simultaneous models. Effectively, you only get the top signal path, not the bottom; however, JNC only used the top path so you should be able to run everything he did.
Thank you - I love what you guys do for mankind@@callaway5148
Glitz rules
Had an original Line 6 amp and a SOB. The L6 always sounded thin and artificial. The SOB organic. Took the L6 send into the SOB from and voila a sound Im still searchng for.
I cant hear the difference to be honest.
Hats off to you. In many comparisons I see, the differences seem extremely subtle or non-existent. I usually keep my mouth shut lest I be accused of having inferior ears...
Doomblay
Close enough.
VHT sounds richer
This VHT is a 183 preamplifier circuit with 6L6 output tubes as opposed to 183 using EL34s . I have built and repaired custom amplifiers for 45 years I actually bought one broken for Cheap 600.00 US repaired it and modified some components. They are decent for the buck if properly modified. There is still something different with the headroom and compression with tubes and the way they react fluidity . Solid state still feels abit rigid and harsh just my opinion .
Is there an amp that has a solid state preamp but a tube power section that youve heard in person?
@@Durkhead line 6 DT amps are kind of this with a digital front end but proper power amp tube power section
@@Durkhead Actually Music Man amps of the 70s are solid-state preamp and tube power sections also early 70s Peaveys come to mind. If you get really technical most guitarists who use even vintage all tube amplifiers use a solid-state overdrives or distortion pedals first in the signal chain . But, there is something about tubes and all tube overdrives and natural compression that Feels better!
@@Durkhead Hybrid amplifiers have been around for well over 50 years !
Here's an all analog solid-state amplifier I designed 14 years ago it has touch and feel but, not alot of headroom so many things come into play besides the amplifier people often overlook the pickups and their inductance value as well as dc resistance. The speaker used the type of guitar and its proximity to speaker which make things reactive . Also your emotion ,touch and feel .