Beefy Smash Doods always put so much effort into their videos and they have so much replayability. My Smash Corner and BSD have the most insightful Smash 4 tech videos on YT! Good job, guys ! :)
For any Lucario players, these are some 2 Frame Punish moves: high percent Aura Sphere, very high percent Aura Sphere Charge on large characters, high percent ( or AE)Force Palm, Dtilt, Ftilt, and UpB.
+Zax I especially love the people who sit on the edge to wait it out. Boy, do they get surprised when death flies at them and their still on the ledge.
I think some people may have missed the quotations around CPU... But Llama Puddle is definitely making a good point. After all, with the whole amiibo thing showing just how capable the AI is in the new Smash Bros, it's possible that it could have been an actual CPU doing that there too. But, yeah... it might be the safest route and just say "Both" here!
Mario and Dr. Mario also have their dash attacks as possible 2-frame punishes, as they function similarly to Cloud's and Mega Man's down tilts, except that they last longer which provides a better timing for it. Not only that, but they also work for their own advantages, depending if you are Mario or Doc. Mario's dash attack semi-stage spikes when performed as a 2-frame punish, setting up a possible fair follow up or a finisher of some kind. Meanwhile, Doc's sends the opponent upwards, allowing Doc to perform combos such as dash attack to up air, dash attack to up B (depending on the %s the opponent has), dash attack to nair, dash attack to tornado, and so on.
For you Bidou users out there, you can really easily do a Beefy Up-B by using your C stick to do your Up-B, and holding down on your main control stick.
+ChillTerumi Hey, fair enough, it is pretty easy. In my experience I can do it more consistently with the method I described. Whatever you are most comfortable with is fine with me, you do you my friend.
There is one more exception you prob didn't know. If greninja uses his hydro pump and gets the animation where he head bonks the stage but the animation gets cancelled by him grabbing the ledge, he cannot be 2 framed
About those exceptions for recoveries that can move down into a ledge and still be invulnerable, all characters that are capable of moving downward with a move that ledgsnaps has the same possibility. Fox, Falco, Pikachu, etc. The difference is that they fail the smart bomb test since those moves don't grant any I-frames by design like the teleport recoveries will. You know the teleports work because the explosion is covering the ledge when they grab it. But for other characters that don't disappear, the explosion hits them before they begin the ledge snap, or they manage a ledge snap because you grabbed too early for the explosion to cover the ledge.
Ikes Eruption is one of the best 2-frame punishes in the game. You charge the move, and let go on reaction as you see your opponent getting close to the ledge (dont use against certain hitbox recoveries like metaknights Up B or in a mirror Aether). With enough practice against various moves, you can probably land the hit about 7/10 times. And with the charge and insane damage/KBG this move offers, you can kill at like 70s and 60s with it Use the massive range on his fair to prevent opponents from coming straight back to the stage, and condition them not to come high with his upsmash and uptilt. Then, once they learn to go low, use his Eruption. This move not only covers the 2 frame punish, but the beefy Up B as well (long lasting, wide hitbox, and super armor when charged eruption is released)
My first thought was actually Alpharad's Cloud 101, when he downsmashed a Cloud beneath him on a platform and caused him to slam into the lip of the stage instead of grabbing the ledge.
The down-b spike hitbox is too inconsistent but I see you if you're using the windbox to gimp teleport characters lol. Din's Fire is not that bad and it kills pretty early but I'd usually just opt-in for the more optimal dair or ledge trump > bair.
This was something I've certainly heard about quite a while ago, and on paper it seemed like a much easier punish to pull off than I guess actually happens in practice. Now I know a little bit about why at least.
This explains why I sometimes get my double back while recovering- I actually did reach the ledge, I was just punched so fast I didn't even realize it.
5:00 Link and Toon Link can also use that same trick with their Bombs in the same manner that'll perhaps allow them to set up for a Dair spike. It'll probably be more optimal with the spike of Link's Dair since Toon Link's Dair will mainly result in his death even when he gets the spike off.
T.J. Thorsen Another way that I think Link can pull off a 2-Frame Punish would be to let a Bomb bounce off the stage wall and setup for an Aerial. If he does it a bit early, then there's a possibility for him to re-grab the bomb, depending on how it bounces off the stage wall, which'll help make it back even if he whiffs a certain lingering Aerial such as his Dair or Uair. Btw, I'm a Link main as well.
T.J. Thorsen If you want to find any more tricks and techniques that Link can do, check out the Link Meta forum on Smashboards. I one of the members working on that forum with a couple of other Link mains.
JohnKnight416 Cool, thanks! Do you think the jump cancel glide toss is useful for Link? I can perform it upwards consistently, but with inconsistent follow-ups.
Little macs dsmash works extremely well, since it has super armor. It can go through the "beefy" up special and getting hit from under the stage with recoveries like zss.
I like to protect the ledge with fox's up b, because t lingers before you move, it's punishable and easily gimped but the 2 frame punish is easy to pull off
Multi hit attacks can work as well. Like Lucas's Down B. I find it easier be cause if you use it a little bit before they get near the ledge, the multi-hitbox is sure to get them
Little Macs D-tilt is really good for this. I spam Little Macs D-tilt for this and it even gives me follow ups. Marth mains can also do this using their D-tilt and space it for the tipper.
Great video. I'm at least glad that the 2-frame punish exists since the ledge trumps might end up not even an option that is worth going for since the person recovering has more options to safely avoid it than to get trumped. Or maybe it already is the case. Idk
ehh I already learned through battles that edge grabbing could be punished. The only thing I really learned from this video was the name 2 Frame Punish. But I guess it helps some newcomers. nice vid
Moves that are active for a long time and have big hit boxes. With big hitboxes like ness's yoyo which went through the map hit him way before he can grab the ledge. That takes the whole point out of timing when Ness literally had both.
So what happens if a Yoshi gets 2-frame punished? His Egg throw usually does reset height distance until he's on ground again. Would he just die even with his double jump?
I've heard that captain falcon's Up-B doesn't cause him to grab the ledge right away and therefore, you have more than just a 2-frame window to hit him while he's recovering. Can anyone verify this? Are there other characters with similar properties?
I play kirby and puff..... I don't think I will be ever 2-frame-punished. But it's good to know this, and I might use it to edge guard opponents. Great video!
Buffering just means that if you input a move slightly before you can actually use it (such as trying to use aerial right after getting launched, just before the hitstun ends) then it will automatically come out the moment your character can actually use it. I'm not sure how long beforehand it works; I've heard ten frames although I think it's more than that.
+Just Breathe You don't have to do anything special, it's just a passive game mechanic that gives you more leniency. I think platform cancelling is when you use a move while landing on the edge of a platform so that you slide off the platform and the move cancels so you can immediately do something else (like use another move). I think this only works with special (B) moves but I might be wrong. An example is when you are onstage and you teleport exactly to the edge of the stage and slide off, then are immediately able to use an aerial or something. Another example is Pikachu's upB where he can platform cancel on Battlefield's platforms over and over again. You can look these things up on google to find more info and other techniques, there are articles about them on the Smash wikis and stuff :P
Awesome work as always. It's a lot of work but it'd be great if you had some sort of list of moves each character can do to get the 2-frame punish. I guess technically anyone can do it by jumping off and coming back with an aerial but some moves I would have never known reached below the stage like Fox's up tilt for example.
I'm pretty glad that Peach has a great up-special, it's pretty rare I ever get punished and the the hit-box of her parasol is always active making it harder to hit/gimp her.
+DryBonesandSilver or when you miss the attack but your opponent ends up avoiding the hit, so recover safely with no punishment. It's the best when they back up in fear.
+NeNe73224 Hahaha right? Another trick I've gotten to use is to pull toad out before recovering to grab a counter in to pressure them. It's pretty useful against offensive players, especially since people tend to forget Peach has a counter
+DryBonesandSilver her counter is both good and bad, it works best when the hit is close range cause they'll get hit by the multi hit of the move. I use it occasionally cause it throws people off. And that's interesting how you use it to recover I never thought of that.
let me tell you lucas's down smash is the best for doing a 2 frame with its 3 hits, great knock back, and great range when used in the edge I have killed some stocks at 50% with this. Great vid btw=)
Yeah, it's pretty fast, so it can catch the 2 frames somewhat reliably. Hooking a strong Dtilt into a sh Dair sounds like fun too, depending on percents.
You can also use his down smash. It's one Ryu's fastest move in his arsenal. Weak knockback but does good damage, has some range and also good for 2 frame punishes.
Could you PLEASE make a video on punishing Villager's recovery? He's one of my worst MU'S, and I often find my self going for his balloons, but often find myself hitting him with weak but precise moves, or he'll mix up his recovery. It'd be greatly appreciated!
he has no hit boxes on his up b, so just spike him? depends on the character youre playing, you dont need to worry about him hitting you back so just toss out whatever damage you can hit him with
Beefies! A question: as you said around 6:41, technically you are grabbing the ledge and regains the double jump, so does that means you won't get ledge invincibility when you reach the ledge again?
You will get it back because you were hit off of it. You only don't get invincibility if you go back to the ledge without touching the stage or being hit
Did anyone else see that at 3:23 the forward hit of ness's downsmash actually 2-frames falcon again??? Battlefield ledges, even in omega mode, make no sense lol.
i wonder, since the character is in the ledge, can you walltech a two frame punish? my friends and I have tried to tech that but we can't, my hypothesis is that you're so close to the wall that makes it untechable
Do characters that instantly grab the ledge have this weakness? Like for example when Cloud uses his Up-B very close to the ledge he instantly grabs it. Can you still get the 2-frame punish?
Note that the 2 frame punish is when you have grabbed the ledge, so the attack animation has finished and you should have no hitboxes during that time.
Both of those moves are alright for two framing, if you can time it right. Also, a carefully executed d-air can 2-frame semi-spike your opponent, it's actually really good because of multiple hit boxes. If you're feeling confident, you can go for a f-air spike two-frame punish. :) hope this helps!
The year is 20FF. 2-frame punish is perfected. Ledge is not safe. Villager is top tier.
Just noticed you in a sea of comments lol
I find Villager the easiest to do it with.
wait my smash corner has a sense of humor? i thought he was a robot
Can Luma help Rosalina With 2-Frames somehow?
My Smash Corner villager main unite
I wasn't aware of the "hold down to pass ledge" option. Thanks for the tip
They actually have a whole video about this, look up the "Beefy Up-B".
same
as a samus main i realized it but didnt know how i was doing it. they confirmed it
It was even possible in brawl. Its way older than the beefy smash doods
+Sporkyz74 should called it the up-beef
Beefy Smash Doods always put so much effort into their videos and they have so much replayability. My Smash Corner and BSD have the most insightful Smash 4 tech videos on YT! Good job, guys ! :)
I started to pay attention to how detailed Rosaluma's up-b is instead of the tutorial.
Same lol
This is my chance to get frameous
I'll be here all week folks
Noooo
+Aden B yesss
...Where are those crickets? They're late!
I will punish you for that joke.
Anybody? No...? Ok
That a good un
I got double two-framed as Sheik in online matches yesterday. Perfect timing, BSD!
Did you use it already?
No, my Fox just got a lot better :)
Sometimes yes
I just pinball people with D3's gordo
Great video! you deserve more subs!!!!!!!!
yes
For any Lucario players, these are some 2 Frame Punish moves:
high percent Aura Sphere,
very high percent Aura Sphere Charge on large characters,
high percent ( or AE)Force Palm,
Dtilt,
Ftilt,
and UpB.
I absolutely love it when my opponent doesn't know I can get the 2 frame with the Aura Sphere :)
+Zax I especially love the people who sit on the edge to wait it out. Boy, do they get surprised when death flies at them and their still on the ledge.
every time i see a new beefy vid i get so excited
Clicked to learn how to 2-frame punish
Accidentally learned how to play Shiek
Wtf
Dat Falcon Punch at the end doe
Definitively !
Scariest part about the Falcon Punch at the end, a "CPU" did it.
+WaddlerD it was in training mode, so it was just another human
You can set it to control so a human controls the CPU.
I think some people may have missed the quotations around CPU... But Llama Puddle is definitely making a good point. After all, with the whole amiibo thing showing just how capable the AI is in the new Smash Bros, it's possible that it could have been an actual CPU doing that there too. But, yeah... it might be the safest route and just say "Both" here!
you shouldve talked about using dededes gordo into the ledge as a two frame punish
Can you do a footstool on the 2 frame punish, if so is it a special footstool or a regular footstool?
I meant specifically during the two frames where they have yet to grab the ledge. Though it would probably be the same outcome.
+Ludwig Anders Gaming The 2-frame window of vulnerability occurs only when the character is grabbing the ledge.
+Ludwig Anders Gaming It still counts as a ledge grab due to the double jump recovery.
Mario and Dr. Mario also have their dash attacks as possible 2-frame punishes, as they function similarly to Cloud's and Mega Man's down tilts, except that they last longer which provides a better timing for it. Not only that, but they also work for their own advantages, depending if you are Mario or Doc. Mario's dash attack semi-stage spikes when performed as a 2-frame punish, setting up a possible fair follow up or a finisher of some kind. Meanwhile, Doc's sends the opponent upwards, allowing Doc to perform combos such as dash attack to up air, dash attack to up B (depending on the %s the opponent has), dash attack to nair, dash attack to tornado, and so on.
4:10 Talk about combo, show bayonetta
Seems like Bayo salt is here to stay, even after nerfs.
Ikr
+Brian Amusat it's never going to go away, sadly.
Thanks. This gives a lot more clarification for how to do it, who can do it, and applications. Great video, as always!
how did you get that profile picture lol
+HG | Meta don't remember. My b
+Ken Grimm @chillin
Ike's Eruption makes especially good use of this. ^-^
Xuan Wu Yeah Ike is my main and after I found out that 2framing is a thing, the eruption scares the shit out of my friends^^
Cloud is my main.
Something about this thumbnail is appealing
Rosaluma about to get 2-framed
Fantastic and insightful video, like always. I really hope "beefy up-b" becomes a thing in high-level commentary
I've been curious about this for a while. thanks for uploading this👌
the fact that you get your double jump back when hit with a 2 frame punish makes sense very nice awesome and very helpful video
For you Bidou users out there, you can really easily do a Beefy Up-B by using your C stick to do your Up-B, and holding down on your main control stick.
the regular way to do it isn't very hard, though, so i probably won't be using that.
The regular way to do it varies from character to character, IIRC, just like the benefits of bidou itself.
+mariofan38 Fair point, I think you're correct.
+ChillTerumi Hey, fair enough, it is pretty easy. In my experience I can do it more consistently with the method I described. Whatever you are most comfortable with is fine with me, you do you my friend.
It's not very hard in the first place, unless you have an up b that can be angled down, then it's slightly harder.
bring back the old logo this steak is too subtle
C-5 more like beef pie
I got nothing original...
Now everything makes sense now
love the new logo
Your videos are so professional and informative. You deserve so many subs than you have
So many more*
Thanks for all your effort into helping me and other smash players. Keep up the good work
Congrautulation for 80.000 Subscriber
The thumbnail for this video is so good you could almost call it clickbait 😂
That reverse falcon punch at the end though, that cpu is a savage!
It IS controlled by someone, the cpu cant do it lol 😂
always excited for your videos!
Beefy Smash Doods ihr macht das richtig gut! Weiter so und ihr knackt 100.000 abonennten mit Leichtigkeit!
There is one more exception you prob didn't know. If greninja uses his hydro pump and gets the animation where he head bonks the stage but the animation gets cancelled by him grabbing the ledge, he cannot be 2 framed
Exactly 80K suscribers right now! Congratulations!!!
19 more :0
133 more
I like how they just cut to the next clip after the second ABK lol 4:09
nice explanation dude, i think i'll take a look to other of your videos because I really learned something really useful to my matches, thanks!
About those exceptions for recoveries that can move down into a ledge and still be invulnerable, all characters that are capable of moving downward with a move that ledgsnaps has the same possibility. Fox, Falco, Pikachu, etc. The difference is that they fail the smart bomb test since those moves don't grant any I-frames by design like the teleport recoveries will. You know the teleports work because the explosion is covering the ledge when they grab it. But for other characters that don't disappear, the explosion hits them before they begin the ledge snap, or they manage a ledge snap because you grabbed too early for the explosion to cover the ledge.
This was great! Very informative!
Ikes Eruption is one of the best 2-frame punishes in the game. You charge the move, and let go on reaction as you see your opponent getting close to the ledge (dont use against certain hitbox recoveries like metaknights Up B or in a mirror Aether). With enough practice against various moves, you can probably land the hit about 7/10 times. And with the charge and insane damage/KBG this move offers, you can kill at like 70s and 60s with it
Use the massive range on his fair to prevent opponents from coming straight back to the stage, and condition them not to come high with his upsmash and uptilt. Then, once they learn to go low, use his Eruption. This move not only covers the 2 frame punish, but the beefy Up B as well (long lasting, wide hitbox, and super armor when charged eruption is released)
Great content! Ive always wanted to learn about the higher level stuff and i didnt find them on youtube but now thanks to you I did :)
A cool 2 frames punish for Ike is using Eruption since the tip hitbox last for 7 frames.
Wow this was very helpful and informative! I love to play Smash, and this is gonna help me get better at it! Thanks Beefy Smash Doods! Stay beefybeefy
My first thought was actually Alpharad's Cloud 101, when he downsmashed a Cloud beneath him on a platform and caused him to slam into the lip of the stage instead of grabbing the ledge.
Thats why sheik mains like to recover from about the ledge! Finally got it :D
Beefy, you should talk about the frame punish covering what happens after the ledge, the getups!
Zelda's down tilt and down b are also great for making 2 frame punishes
lol zelda's down-b
The down-b spike hitbox is too inconsistent but I see you if you're using the windbox to gimp teleport characters lol. Din's Fire is not that bad and it kills pretty early but I'd usually just opt-in for the more optimal dair or ledge trump > bair.
This was something I've certainly heard about quite a while ago, and on paper it seemed like a much easier punish to pull off than I guess actually happens in practice. Now I know a little bit about why at least.
it's also worth noting certain tilts like Fox's up air come out in only 2 frames
2 frame punish with Eruption is the hypest move in the game.
This explains why I sometimes get my double back while recovering- I actually did reach the ledge, I was just punched so fast I didn't even realize it.
This is a great and informative video, good job guys!
I two framed with a pocketed tree
5:00 Link and Toon Link can also use that same trick with their Bombs in the same manner that'll perhaps allow them to set up for a Dair spike. It'll probably be more optimal with the spike of Link's Dair since Toon Link's Dair will mainly result in his death even when he gets the spike off.
That is good, but you can apparently Z-air trump to D-air with Link, which is probably much easier (I main Link, but have never tried it personally).
T.J. Thorsen Another way that I think Link can pull off a 2-Frame Punish would be to let a Bomb bounce off the stage wall and setup for an Aerial. If he does it a bit early, then there's a possibility for him to re-grab the bomb, depending on how it bounces off the stage wall, which'll help make it back even if he whiffs a certain lingering Aerial such as his Dair or Uair.
Btw, I'm a Link main as well.
JohnKnight416 Yeah, that would work quite well.
T.J. Thorsen If you want to find any more tricks and techniques that Link can do, check out the Link Meta forum on Smashboards. I one of the members working on that forum with a couple of other Link mains.
JohnKnight416 Cool, thanks! Do you think the jump cancel glide toss is useful for Link? I can perform it upwards consistently, but with inconsistent follow-ups.
Does Shadow Sneak counts as a teleport from above?
Greninja doesn't grab the ledge immediately after the move, so I don't think so.
Thanks!
+LyonnDRC Metaknight maybe?
Yeah, it should apply to Metaknight.
Holaaaaa
Haz un vídeo sobre esto c:
Nice vid. I'm surprised Clouds limit blade beam wasn't mentioned. It's extremely good at 2-framing ppl and a very difficult stage spike to tech
These are sick videos
Thanks BSD :D
Little macs dsmash works extremely well, since it has super armor. It can go through the "beefy" up special and getting hit from under the stage with recoveries like zss.
I like to protect the ledge with fox's up b, because t lingers before you move, it's punishable and easily gimped but the 2 frame punish is easy to pull off
I think falco's would be better bcause it has multiple hits
God damn shout out to beefysmashdoods for the this amazing video!
That explains how I sort of spiked Captain Falcon with Corrin's Down air. I was more confused than amazed though. haha.
Mario's dash attack is probably the safest option. It stays out forever and can semi-spike on trapezoid stages.
Beefy up-b Pikachu sounds like a frame-perfect tech
Does MK's down b count as a telephort recovery, and therefore can avoid the 2 frames of vulnerability?
God damn it, I love this channel so much I just can't stand it!
4:11 You know what else is an amazing tool for punishing those 2 vulnerable frames? Luigi's down-taunt #revenge
Multi hit attacks can work as well. Like Lucas's Down B. I find it easier be cause if you use it a little bit before they get near the ledge, the multi-hitbox is sure to get them
Little Macs D-tilt is really good for this. I spam Little Macs D-tilt for this and it even gives me follow ups. Marth mains can also do this using their D-tilt and space it for the tipper.
last episode: "inta-ga-ble"
this episode: "intangible"
the adaptation is real.
so how many frames does it take to go into shield/spot doge/roll from neutral getup? like whats the window where i can punish that?
Depends on the character. I'm pretty sure there are sites that have all the frame rates for characters.
One site is called KuroganeHammer if you are curious.
Red Speed Thanks! That's really helpful
np
You are vulnerable for one frame with neutral get up, after that you can shield. Rolls etc are characterdependent
Great video. I'm at least glad that the 2-frame punish exists since the ledge trumps might end up not even an option that is worth going for since the person recovering has more options to safely avoid it than to get trumped. Or maybe it already is the case. Idk
If you were to recover close to the stage, is it possible to tech? I know it's possible in melee, but how about smash 4?
ehh I already learned through battles that edge grabbing could be punished. The only thing I really learned from this video was the name 2 Frame Punish. But I guess it helps some newcomers. nice vid
Does 2-framing still exist in ultimate?
Moves that are active for a long time and have big hit boxes. With big hitboxes like ness's yoyo which went through the map hit him way before he can grab the ledge. That takes the whole point out of timing when Ness literally had both.
So what happens if a Yoshi gets 2-frame punished? His Egg throw usually does reset height distance until he's on ground again. Would he just die even with his double jump?
I mostly get that 2-frame punish using ZSS' Flip Kick and Lucina's Down Tilt and Down Smash.
i usually use the 2 frame punish with Lucas's Down Smash
I've heard that captain falcon's Up-B doesn't cause him to grab the ledge right away and therefore, you have more than just a 2-frame window to hit him while he's recovering. Can anyone verify this? Are there other characters with similar properties?
I play kirby and puff..... I don't think I will be ever 2-frame-punished. But it's good to know this, and I might use it to edge guard opponents. Great video!
if you're Puff you're *very* valnurable off-stage. She has no "Recovery" moves except pound.
+why yeah, but since she has no actual upB and pound is already super unsafe, the 2 frames don't really matter
is there a video explaining buffering attacks? I keep on hearing it and I don't know how to do it or what exactly it does
Buffering just means that if you input a move slightly before you can actually use it (such as trying to use aerial right after getting launched, just before the hitstun ends) then it will automatically come out the moment your character can actually use it.
I'm not sure how long beforehand it works; I've heard ten frames although I think it's more than that.
Derek Ohhh i see thank you, do you know how to do it? And sorry, but do you know how to platform cancel too?
+Just Breathe You don't have to do anything special, it's just a passive game mechanic that gives you more leniency.
I think platform cancelling is when you use a move while landing on the edge of a platform so that you slide off the platform and the move cancels so you can immediately do something else (like use another move). I think this only works with special (B) moves but I might be wrong. An example is when you are onstage and you teleport exactly to the edge of the stage and slide off, then are immediately able to use an aerial or something. Another example is Pikachu's upB where he can platform cancel on Battlefield's platforms over and over again.
You can look these things up on google to find more info and other techniques, there are articles about them on the Smash wikis and stuff :P
Derek Wow Thanks a lot man for taking the time to type all that! I'll go and look it up, Have a good day bro👌👍
Awesome work as always. It's a lot of work but it'd be great if you had some sort of list of moves each character can do to get the 2-frame punish. I guess technically anyone can do it by jumping off and coming back with an aerial but some moves I would have never known reached below the stage like Fox's up tilt for example.
I'm pretty glad that Peach has a great up-special, it's pretty rare I ever get punished and the the hit-box of her parasol is always active making it harder to hit/gimp her.
Same! Sometimes I also ignore the ledge just connect all the hits of her up special and surprise my opponent.
+DryBonesandSilver or when you miss the attack but your opponent ends up avoiding the hit, so recover safely with no punishment. It's the best when they back up in fear.
+NeNe73224 Hahaha right? Another trick I've gotten to use is to pull toad out before recovering to grab a counter in to pressure them. It's pretty useful against offensive players, especially since people tend to forget Peach has a counter
+DryBonesandSilver her counter is both good and bad, it works best when the hit is close range cause they'll get hit by the multi hit of the move. I use it occasionally cause it throws people off. And that's interesting how you use it to recover I never thought of that.
+NeNe73224 yeah true. Definitely an upgrade from brawl. I've gotten KOs from it at around 150/160 against smaller/med characters
Finally! Someone explains how to z-air!
let me tell you lucas's down smash is the best for doing a 2 frame with its 3 hits, great knock back, and great range when used in the edge I have killed some stocks at 50% with this. Great vid btw=)
Yeah he's my first tied with Ness
Great video man
What about ryus down weak tilt? I use that.
Yeah, it's pretty fast, so it can catch the 2 frames somewhat reliably. Hooking a strong Dtilt into a sh Dair sounds like fun too, depending on percents.
You can also use his down smash. It's one Ryu's fastest move in his arsenal. Weak knockback but does good damage, has some range and also good for 2 frame punishes.
Well, this explains a lot. Thanks guys!
Well that explains a lot more of what I didn't understand about this
The best one is Kirby's inhale. Suck them up and go down with them.
Does the Meta Knight Down-B enter the category of TP recovery that means it has no 2-frame punish when done from above the ledge?
Could you PLEASE make a video on punishing Villager's recovery? He's one of my worst MU'S, and I often find my self going for his balloons, but often find myself hitting him with weak but precise moves, or he'll mix up his recovery. It'd be greatly appreciated!
he has no hit boxes on his up b, so just spike him? depends on the character youre playing, you dont need to worry about him hitting you back so just toss out whatever damage you can hit him with
Beefies! A question: as you said around 6:41, technically you are grabbing the ledge and regains the double jump, so does that means you won't get ledge invincibility when you reach the ledge again?
You will get it back because you were hit off of it. You only don't get invincibility if you go back to the ledge without touching the stage or being hit
Today I 2-framed a nerd on for glory with the falcon stomp it was fun putting that one on TH-cam
If you use your Up-B above the ledge using Fox or Falco, do you still have those two punishable frames?
Did anyone else see that at 3:23 the forward hit of ness's downsmash actually 2-frames falcon again??? Battlefield ledges, even in omega mode, make no sense lol.
i wonder, since the character is in the ledge, can you walltech a two frame punish? my friends and I have tried to tech that but we can't, my hypothesis is that you're so close to the wall that makes it untechable
Love this punish with ganondorfs up-tilt.
probably the most rewarding punish for a 2 frame hahaha they just die most of the time
+Extrabittles sadly its has a lot of lag :( . so if you miis they probably will punish u.
Do characters that instantly grab the ledge have this weakness? Like for example when Cloud uses his Up-B very close to the ledge he instantly grabs it. Can you still get the 2-frame punish?
Yes you can, whenever you are grabbing the ledge, the opponent always has 2 frames to attack
thank you
yes
Note that the 2 frame punish is when you have grabbed the ledge, so the attack animation has finished and you should have no hitboxes during that time.
Hmmmm very interesting! But I have one question though, I main yoshi so what moves might be able to 2 frame punish? Does d-tilt or d-smash work?
Both of those moves are alright for two framing, if you can time it right. Also, a carefully executed d-air can 2-frame semi-spike your opponent, it's actually really good because of multiple hit boxes. If you're feeling confident, you can go for a f-air spike two-frame punish. :) hope this helps!
+Vishudda Smash I haven't thought of d-air to be an option but the way you described it perfectly shows that it can work! Much thanks bro :)