My Amazon Vine Experience, part 2 - Taxes, SNAP/EBT, and WIC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2022
- When the IRS themselves tells you they don't know how to handle your case...
Part 1: • My Amazon Vine experie...
Part 3: • More on Amazon Vine ta...
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Amazon is just passing off all tax liability to the reviewers with the expectation that product A is worth X amount of money which is greater than the income tax the reviewer will have to pay so you get to indirectly purchase the product at a discounted rate (my state+federal would be roughly 32% so instead of paying X I pay 32% of X). For people with stable income it’s no problem and you get a few bargains in there (theoretically). For anyone who is doing this because of a lack of income the tax liability is probably not something they can afford and I agree with you Amazon needs to be more transparent about the real cost. Good luck and look forward to seeing what happens.
Well said. Yes, one school of thought is that if it's items you'd already be purchasing anyway, then you get them at a fraction of the cost. Although the estimated tax value can sometimes be grossly inflated, which is frustrating to encounter, especially if the item ends up being too junky to actually use.
@@heidimull yes yes and I’m sure they’re very hit or miss - with most of these items being straight from the Chinese factory.
@@heidimull there was some of them that didnt look at the price of something the other day that was a $20 item I think it was a cable and come to find out they had to pay over a grand for the cable.
@@SonyaAllstun that's ridiculous!
i noticed that on the main site there will be a coupon for the item, but this available discount is not shown on the Vine order page. Also, a lot of items seem to have inflated prices to me.
A tip that I just learned today is, go through your Reviewed list. I found 6 reviews that were rejected that Amazon never informed me about. Some all the way back in April. I went through my entire list page by page and resubmitted the reviews, with much less verbiage and no pictures, but gave the star ratting that they deserved.
This is *THE* most helpful video I've come across on this subject. I've been a Vine member since this past June and I'm pretty nervous about tax time; my husband is going to KILL me. Ugh.
did you get your tax bill yet? how much is it? im so nervous
You should order your hubby a bunch of nice stuff quick ! 🤣
This is probably the most well stated explanation of the US version of Vine that I've come across. I'm wishing you the best regarding the tax situation - this is an absurd system they've set up. I recently got invited to Vine and have gotten several items, but I'm fortunate enough not to really need it. However, I grew up poor and very much can see how valuable it would have been in that situation. As it stands it's exactly how you're describing - the items that are offered are almost entirely off brand and the ETV of these items is usually grossly inflated (I think the strategy is that they can wait for the Vine reviews to come in then cut the price to the actual intended sale price so that it shows a big discount percent). There is also no recourse when items are completely worthless. Amazon says that some literal piece of trash is worth $30, so I now owe taxes on $30 income? Self employment tax + income tax + ETV markup winds up making items roughly 60% of the sale price of an "established" Chinese equivalent item (one for which reviews already exist and I can at least ensure that it is not going to be literal garbage.)
Thinking I'm quitting the program at $590...
You nailed it. I've backed way off since making this video, mainly just because once you have most of the stuff you need, what's being offered just isn't all that appealing anymore with all the downsides factored in as well. The program is always changing, though, so I feel it could be worth sticking around to see how it morphs in the future.
Thanks for sharing information on your situation and being strong minded/willed about dealing with it, such a frustrating mess. I really think the more Vine Voices that see videos like this, the better. It may never result in a change but at least there's a chance for it to. I hope so, because it's really crappy to have to be dealing with this headache which feels nearly impossible when no one who is supposed to be able to help seems very helpful, and even if someone seems to have an answer or be helpful, you have to wonder if somehow it will still end up coming back to hurt you. I'll watch for updates beyond your next video I've already seen, and hopefully we find more people sharing their steps and results as well.
Glad you made this video. I live in the same state and this year Vine’s ETV is around $15k (my first year and being ignorant of possible issues). Obviously some of the items are not worth the ETV even before the required use for review. You’re brave to take a chance on challenging it. I was told that it was “hobby” income and I should report it as “other income” on my 1044. I can pay the tax but I’m worried if I report it as pure income it will affect my SSI.
I'm in UK and I got invited to join vine and the first thing I did was check if the items were regarded as income and taxable as I naturally assumed it would be, but after researching I was surprised for me it was not, so I joined, the only thing I have to avoid is selling the items after 6months and then it's £1000 a year before it's classed as taxable Income, I was quite shocked at the system for the US though, absolutely disgusting 😕
I seriously want to Cry😭 I'm a single mom of 4 & didn't realize how much I would regret this vine program. I get snap & medical & also work a full time job, but to have to jump through all these hoops & still not have answers. I usually do my own taxes but this year I haven't because I'm trying to find the correct way to file with this vine 1099 addition. So far I'm owing about $4000.😢 Thank you for this topic!
I'm really sorry you're in that position. It's not right at all. Hang in there.
Hi if you don’t mind me asking how much value did you purchase to owe $4000 in taxes?
Yes Im curious to know
Well, some are of the opinion that even though you get a 1099-nec that it is improper because it's more of promotional giveaways or gifts. Those should be on a 1099-misc I think.
In any case, just because it's income and self employment doesn't mean it's work. Even if it's a high dollar amount it doesn't mean you seek to make profit, that it's expected to ever make profit, that you are concerned with growing the "business", etc etc etc. The IRS has 9 questions to determine if it's work or hobby.
Its questionable that Amz has a right to claim they have paid people by issuing 1099’s. Are they deducting this from their tax liability? I’ve decided to pass on this program since this tax situation seems like a sham.
Yup...it is, however, they clearly state that, and the Vine member agrees to it, which makes it legally binding in any court. It's hard to say to no to stuff that's "Free", even when it isn't. The program is awesome, but you have to read the contract you are signing....as with anything.
Clearly Amazon is the problem here. I was invited and I ordered a few products but now I think I will not continue. I believe the best way to change this is for reviewers to stop reviewing.
It's not for everyone. Can't blame Amazon though. They made it quite clear to me in their agreement, which I read fully, that I would be responsible for that 1099 just as if I was being paid cash. The only complaint I have is the way they inflate the prices......
As a former employee of Amazon I can honestly say that even employees have to pay taxes on "prizes" they get after "winning" production competitions
Woah, that's miserable. Not cool at all. 😬
It’s not just an Amazon thing it’s a tax law thing
When I get a production or performance bonus at work, I have to pay taxes on it. How is that different from your situation?
@@MyFiddlePlayerDo you claim taxes gifts you receive?
My issue with Vine items is, that there is a 6 month period that customers are expected to to have custody of the item for review. After that is satisfied, the customer gets to keep the used item that has most likely depreciated from the full retail rate that reviewers are being taxed at. The items available aren't necessarily things we needed on a regular basis either. I realize it's a voluntary program, but asking to pay income tax on full retail on something you're being asked to review makes no since.
Any updates?
It's like saying your time to look up the items, order them, unbox them, use them, review them is worthless. My time is valuable
Absolutely!
Another thing i don't like is that sellers often have a listed price plus 40% off for regular customers but we as vine members have to report the full amount as income. We don't get the true price.
I've recently been getting reviews rejected for mentioning current price and the amt of the coupon. I did that to make notes and a paper trail. I think that's why it's being rejected.
Excellent, thank you for this and having a backbone made of steel 💕
Thank you for making this video!! I just got invited to the Vine. I knew it sounded too good to be true. I don’t think I will join. That’s too much to juggle for a few products. Again, thank you for sharing!!
I hope everything works out for you, I really do. Your insight has helped me decide, after I was recently invited to Vine, to decline Amazons offer...just too much of a hassle.
I just received by invitation to Amazon Vine. This video has really helped me to decide that this is NOT for me. I'm on SSI, and I pay taxes on it. I don't need another income to report, especially if it's more than my SSI. We become independent contractors by joining this program, and the "free products" is considered an income. The vendors are not going to give away their merchandise for free. They report ever product they give away as a business expense. These items have serial numbers, and can be traced. So you can't sell them on any social media platforms. But you can have an awesome yard sale.
Looking at videos from sellers about this program, it appears they receive much greater value than that of the product than we receive from getting a free product. I'm wondering if I could send an invoice to Amazon for the value of my work. perhaps if Amazon established a dollar value per review, then we could use that to offset the product value. Each year, Amazon could establish a number, we either get paid cash for our reviews or we get to offset the product value by the amount we have not been paid. One way or another, Amazon and the sellers are profiting much more than the reviewers, but without the reviewers they are screwed.
Make sure to deduct expenses for internet, computers, etc. Maybe there is a way to set a value for our time to offset the cost of the product.
Keep going girl, you are on the right track!
Hi Heidi 🙋♂️
Just wanted to say your great! I had a rather long message pertaining to the frustrations with all the state type issues medicaid/snap etc...but man I then heard the tax stuff 😢
I know there's so much to this. Im certain you have but if not, have you considered tax attorney? Usually it's free in most places for consult & they could atleest provide more insight with regards to IRS, how to navigate and more(downside is the $$) but the knowledge gained is power & never lost 😊
Hope this finds you well & in good spirits. Best wishes 👍🤙🙏
You can sell them after 6 months time, but yeah you do have to pay taxes on them if you sell it, but in USA i don't know what that's like.
I keep hearing other vine videos say you can't return the items. I return them all the time. Mybreason being that I can not properly review they product and give a fair review if I can't properly use the item. They have allowed my returns. No I don't recieve any money back but it takes the estimate value off and I'm on to the next thing..
I am not on benefits but i am a SAHM and we have one income. We have had to pay back taxes twice, but it isn't a great burden because we have 3 dependents. It hurts put refund slightly, but we are just happy to recieve a refund at all. So those taxes that I would have to pay back , would be dedicated from my total refund. I also try to stay under $2000 in products so we don't have to pay back more than $400 or more.. I was stressed about it too at first but I just charge it to losing a little refund.. and I use the principle if I couldn't afford to pay for that item with real money I won't get that item to be taxed.
Thank you for this informative video!
Sounds like you've got a system going that works well for you! I am way, way, way above 2K in estimated value. 😂
Amazon themselves are the ones saying you cannot return an item, so I'm dying to know how you do it! Is it through Vine support or is it the main customer support line? Do you just tell them you need to return an item because you cannot review it and they send you a return label or QR code?
This could change things for a lot of people.
What about donating some of the items after the six month period? Obviously, donating a mattress is out of the question, but if you received electronics items, for example, and donated some of them to Goodwill, I would think you would be able to deduct the "used" value of them on your taxes if you donated them to charity. Let's say you got a t.v. that Amazon values at $400 new. After 6 months, you donate it to charity and as a 6 month old item, you claim its value as $360 or $320. That would lighten your tax burden somewhat. I am not a tax lawyer, and this comment should not be considered as legal advice, but it's a good question to ask a tax attorney and/or the IRS.
Great video and good luck with the fight. I admire your efforts.
Thank you!!
Thanks for this video. Its really been insightful on this topic.
This is an amazing story, and you are an amazing person! So smart and well-spoken! Most people would have no clue where to start and who to contact, and you have been there and done that in droves! You have a new subscriber, and I will follow up to see where this goes. Please keep us all updated!
Thank you so much, will do!
Hi Heidi, You are AMAZING! And you are fun to watch on TH-cam! I have been patiently waiting to hear what happened with the taxes and filing. I am in vine and I am wondering how to file the best way that I can.. With the most deductions if possible.. I am very interested to hear back from you. =) I love all of your videos! Thanks for posting!!! =D I am also low income..
I am wondering if anyone lost their foodshare or healthcare benefits after filing their taxes? Did foodshare and or healthcare count this as income? Thanks.
Hi thanks for sharing this and being open because I learned so much!
One thought, have you considered donating the items at the end of their use (the 6 months) and getting a receipt for their value to cancel out the possession value for taxes?
It is a complicated situation and I am also thinking ahead of time (before filing taxes next year) on how to lower or eliminate tax liability on vine products. Just a random thought: the fact that we aren’t even free to do whatever we want to with the items for 6 months is an issue. Of course we have to use it in order to review it, but we shouldn’t have to keep it afterwards if we don’t want to. It would kinda be like if we were told that we had to keep our income from a paycheck for 6 months before doing anything with it, lol!
lol, yup!
That 6 month hold is what saves everyones bacon tax wise. That is THE most valuable thing for a myriad of reasons. If that goes away it's big trouble.
@@WindchymeK9Why do you say that? Genuinely curious.
I'm a fellow reviewer, so I'll be anxious to hear any info you find out. Subbed to hear any outcome
I am so thankful for your video... I am in the same situation & trying to find out how to itemize my deductions...
Also, you could bill your “review business” for an hourly rate that you work at using them and writing the reviews.
Hello Heidi, thank you for your videos. I watched them with great interest as I find myself in the same prick but for Amazon Germany.
After reading a lot around and documenting myself I can definitely say that there is a BIG problematic with the tax system. One point of view is that those items have a "fair market value" and you need to be taxed as income tax based on this amount. But this is exactly the point which is absolutely senseless and I will put here all the reasons why:
1. If you do a job for someone and you receive as a payment for return of service an IPad, or if you do a job for someone and receive a lot of IPads or other goods as payment, it is important to note that there was a service and a payment in goods involved. In that case there would be an agreement from your side that you receive these goods as payment for your work. In that case I could understand the validity of an income tax. But in the case of Vine items to be tested this is not the case. I will explain below.
2. The item to be tested cannot be compared the same as the same item to be purchased. They cannot be considered as equivalent. Why? A purchased item has a guarantee, and you can also can get full monetary refunds if you choose not to keep it. This is not the case for a vine item. A vine item cannot be returned and has no guarantee. Also you can only claim it IF 6 months has passed and you were not requested to return it. Also you are not allowed to disclose or publish this item on any blog or website. All these restrictions definitely mean that a test product does not have the same market value as a purchased item. It is therefore a mistake from Amazon to claim that these products have the same "Fair Market Value" as a purchased item. Now the next point. The Fair Market Value of that item after 6 months of testing is only the amount Amazon would be willing to pay me if I return that item to them. Indeed if that would be the case Amazon would pay you only a few cents for them. Then this is the real Fair Market value of these items.
3. When I test a product I actually break it open and I subject it to all types of knocks and blows to check how good it actually is. I try to check the material, I scratch it etc. That is the whole point of testing. It is like if you give me a test car and I need to drive it and force it to the maximum to test it and am not allowed to sell it and I can only keep it if the seller does not request it within 6 months, it has no guarantee and the item cannot be returned, there is just no way that this item after 6 months and after being pushed to the max for testing be worth the same value as a newly purchased item which has a guarantee and which can be returned. This is just common sense. Next point.
4. If I test a product and it is NO GOOD. It is good for the dustbin and I dont want to keep it and I cannot return it. Why on earth should I pay 35% of its value when I dont even own it within 6 months and when I dont want to keep it? Next point.
5. There are items that are clearly overpriced. I make the test and I write that this product is overpriced. Again why should I pay 35% of the claimed value of an item that I cannot return and which I think is overpriced? Next point.
6. Most of the items on vine are from unknown brands.Hence after 6 months their value is just a few Euros that someone would be willing to pay on flee markets. They have a low resale value. Overall this whole thing makes no sense.
7. Those Fair market value prices are the original price the sellers would like to sell those items. They dont represent the actual value of a test product under those conditions. Also those fair market values have already a tax included in them. So how can I pay tax on something which is already taxed? Hence it is double taxed? If this applies, this can only apply for a case which I described in point 1. Which in the vine testing program clearly is not the case.
8. What about all items that get broken during the test phase? What about items you would not consider keeping? For me it looks like you are making me pay an expensive fee for testing an item. This is what it is. This is a 35% fee just for testing an item which is absurd. How can someone who buys the actual real product pay less tax? Instead of getting paid for testing you need to pay to test. How ridiculous is it that in the lucky case that you manage to sell an item lets say for 40% of its value, including additionally 20% as tax of that value additionally as VAT, this means the tax you paid is more than the amount you could hopefully get from selling it. In reality therefore you have been taxed 100% if not more. And they call this income tax?? This is absolute BS!
9. Most of the items have only between 0-50% of the value after 6 months after undergoing the tests and under the condition of no returns and no guarantee. There is also a big issue, the items were needed to have zero cost to the tester for the reviews to be properly legit. But if you need to pay a tax, this puts you in a pressure not to degrade the product either because you need to keep it in a good state because you paid taxes for it or you want to sell it to gain cash back. It makes no sense.
10.For the reviews to be truly fair the reviewer should have not have to pay anything. Hence whatever tax to be paid must have been paid by Amazon. The deal is that I receive a free item and I give a review in exchange. Hence it should be considered as a gift. Not the other way around, where I give a review and I get the item as a payment for my service. Also Amazon should claim the Fair Market Value of that gift to be much less than a purchased item because of all the attached conditions of receiving that gift. I believe that Amazon is missleading or misinforming and mostly missrepresenting the Fair Market Value of these items. In the case of Amazon.de they published the tax to be paid only after a year that the people had enrolled. These values are not Fair at all. They do not represent the real value and the authorities cannot force anyone to pay taxes for items they do not want to keep and cannot return.
Also consider healthcare marketplace! You may owe more in monthly premiums! The highest rate is 8.5%, could be lower depending on your income. Need to add that percent to fed and state income tax.
This is exactly why I called my state's healthcare authority, which regulates the healthcare marketplace! They claimed because it wasn't income they didn't care. But I know that if the tax return shows all that as income they'll be confused. That's why I had them document it in my notes that it's products, not income, and also why I'm trying to address things at the IRS level. What a mess!
Did you need to get a DBA certificate to use the business forms? or do you just use it with your ssn? thanks for sharing!!
Really well explained! Didn't realize the vine program makes you taxed for products. Thank you for laying it all out!
You're welcome, glad I was helpful!
Hey quick question, if I purchase something on Amazon and then return the item will the refund go back to my snap card or will it go to my Amazon account.
I am impressed at how you stepped it up a notch from part 1 video of what seemed to be a low income person on governmental assistance who got a lucky break with Vine into emerging as a brilliant business minded tactician. You have illustrated that there is much more to take in consideration about this then ordering a bunch of free stuff. I have been audited twice and it is a scary and destructive. It taught me to do what seems to come so naturally to you, face down perhaps the biggest boogieman for adults " THE IRS". What you are saying is so on point and I have also read many of the comments here . One thing that stands out to me is the importance of assigning the income categorically. I know that my situation stipulates I have a limit on earned income but investment income has no cap. I am going to be following your lead when I do my taxes. I intend to find out more about how to best manage this as a business.
Let me know if you uncover anything I might have missed! It's a little scary to hear others are following my lead when I'm well aware this could backfire but someone has to get the IRS's ear on this.
Do you have the business phone # of the IRS? I still haven't been able to get through even once but I'm going to start trying in a more organized manner several times a day and film it so hopefully if I get through one of these times I can get more answers for myself and everyone. If you have the time and inclination to make calls too, that would increase our chances of getting through.
Also, I'm sorry you're in a situation that limits income. I was on SSI for many years and the psychological fallout is far from healed. Our country has a really messed up way of addressing inability to work and I just wanted you to know that I see you.
@@heidimull Will do. When I say I am following your lead I mean that I will consult with the brilliant tax lawyer which got me out my last mess. I really learned a few things. The biggest lesson is that it is not necessarially about rules and code. Clout and influence has alot to do with getting them to see things your way in an audit situation. But you do want to be standing on solid ground with good records and documentation.
@@Detroitblue That's really interesting. Yes documentation is key! I would love to hear anything more you learn from the tax lawyer, please keep me in the loop!
@@heidimull What should I be documenting?! I'm fucking terrified now. This shouldn't be allowed to be happening. Is there simply no recourse for us? We need to organize. Together we can be better than seperate.
Whoa... This now has me kinda nervous as I just got into the program and already have ordered like 4 items. I'm currently on disability and get snap as well as medicare/aide. I'm now already considering dropping out of the vine program.
Do you know about $0 tax items? I didn't mention them in my video because it was already long but now I'm thinking of making another video talking about that. It's only a small percentage of Vine items but it can be worth it to some people to stay in just for that.
@@heidimull I just learned about these items and have seen and gotten a cpl. Since I'm new and joined after the 22nd I'm in the silver tier and liked to 3 items a day plus I only today got my recommended list to even populate but it's pretty bare bones, something like 50 items or less.
@@drobb0690 its getting near impossible to get the $0 items.
I didn't know that once you get to gold tier, you get super high value items. Damn I'm excited but will definitely be careful
Could you be a little more specific as to where on the 1040 you are claiming this so called income. What line and/or what IRS Schedule do you believe the 1090 NEC is recorded?
My wife and I just received an invite for the Vine program and I would be lying if I didn't say we were excited. I was happy I could find a few videos on the program, including yours. I just want to say that you are a very engaging, intelligent young lady and I really admire your tenacity. Sounds like you are going through a tough stage of your life, but I am confident that you have a bright future ahead. Thank you for posting a very detailed video, lots of food for thought.
Aww thanks so much for your kind words. ❤️ I will keep reaching towards the brighter future!
Vine can be a super exciting and fun thing! I was like a kid in a candy store my first few months, as I talk about in Part 1. If you're on the fence there's no harm in accepting the invite to check it out, as it's easy to opt out of in the future at any time.
Congrats on the invite!
Hello. Could you tell us what did you do to get invited please ? 😊 do you have a lot of likes on your reviews ?
@@cookingcookiezz Nobody knows. It's an automated process. It definitely has to do with reviewing items and people finding them useful, but it also seems to have to do with the types of items reviewed. If a zillion people are reviewing makeup and almost nobody is reviewing screwdrivers, they're going to invite that one person who is getting likes on their screwdriver reviews, you know?
This is really useful information! I still can’t believe it’s such a complicated issue.
Right?? I felt exhausted just talking about it lol
After reflecting deeply about this problem i need to say...this woman is a genius... she actually runs a not for profit business.. and all returns are used as part of running the business.. indeed ..the items are used .. they become the expense for running the business....so they are deducted... net income is 0..net tax to be paid is zero... nobody can actually contest that. But she needs to pay attention that on the third year the business needs to be profitable to qualify as a business...well then indeed she can say she sells the items..and pay some small tax.
A business doesn't ever need to be profitable. Per IRS, and quote from their website: "Generally, an activity qualifies as a business if it is carried on with the reasonable expectation of earning a profit." I can expect it to be profitable forever. My expectations aren't taxable. And, if the net is $0 regularly, what would it take to make $0.01? Sell one item? Boom profit. But standard deduction at $12,000 is still in the code (If that's what it is for 2023)
For those who are in the program and want to stay in the program but want to reduce their tax liability, just select items with a $0 ETV and you won’t incur a tax liability for those items. That way you can continue to enjoy being in the program and have less of a tax liability.
Absolutely! My video on 0ETV is here: th-cam.com/video/IuE6jup7N4U/w-d-xo.html
I will mention some people are getting the impression that any item in any category might be $0 ETV, but that's not the case. It pretty severely limits your options, but many people find this is the only way the program works for them in its current form.
They are getting hard to come by and you better be on there as soon as they release.
Weird supplements and vitamins. I've heard that some people are offered food items, but I only saw one actual normal food item in the month that I was in the program and it was gone in the blink of an eye.
I’m thinking one can file taxes using the 1099 as self employed and depending on one’s deductions, the taxes may not be much to pay back.
This was super helpful information as I was just invited to join Vine and I’m concerned about the tax ramifications. I will be following you for updates!
Congrats on joining! I'm so glad it was helpful. I'll keep you in the loop!
why cant you resell the items? and how would amazon even know? do they check?
I can’t speak on benefits as I’m not on any but I am a Vine Gold member…and have been for awhile. So self employment tax is 15.3% any amount over $600 will have a 15.3% tax at the end of the year. For example if you got $2000 in items you’d be taxed 15.3% of $1400 (over $600) which would be like $214.20…. Anything under $600 and they don’t even issue a 1099. I have not heard of any deductions being applicable nor have I tried in the past. I’m gonna sure try this year though.
With self employment you still owe taxes on anything below $600, it's just that reporting it to the IRS becomes your responsibility rather than that of the company who paid you.
If you try this year I'd be interested to hear how it goes, please let me know if you think of it!
@@heidimull I mean sort of…the only amount on the 1099 is the over $600 amount so in my example the $1400… nobody is going to claim undocumented income… I mean technically they should but they aren’t going to
@@monktarot7133 I do. I have for many years.
There are several types of "income" for tax purposes, not just money. For the purpose of assistance programs, only money is considered countable income.
@@khadijahshabazz7512 Some benefit programs take into account something called “in kind” income where you receive income from things other than cash. It’s best to find out if in kind income is used in benefit eligibility calculations.
First thank you so much for researching and informing people about this. I have a question, I'm on SSDI and was just invited to join Amazon Vine and I'm trying to figure out how much in "income items" I can receive each month without it affecting my benefits. I know it says for a non-blind person they can earn 1,470 dollars a month before it affects your SSDI benefits but that rule is part of a program for people trying to return to work. I don't want this to look Iike I'm earing income from an actual job because it's not a real job. I don't want to confuse SSA into thinking I'm capable of working when I'm not. So basically I'm trying to find out if anyone knows how I can safely order Vine items without having my benefits disrupted and what the price limit needs to be on those Vine items I can order.
It's going to be seen as earned income as a private contractor hence the 1099 form. It's as if you're being paid in merchandise for your work as a reviewer. Be careful, and keep detailed records of proof of actual value if you want to reduce your tax liability. I don't think taking chances is worth losing a lifetime of needed benefits.
@@qua7771 Thank you, I agree it's not worth it so I've kept it below the 600 dollar mark. But rules for SSI and SSDI are different and from what I can tell they have made it seem easy for people on SSDI to try and go back to work. For example they say for SSDI members there is no limit on how much money they can make without loosing their benefits the first 9 months they try to go back to work, after the 9 months I think it's around 1400k a month they can make still without it effecting their benefits. But I don't want SSDI to think I'm capable of going back to work when I'm not, for all I know they could reevaluate my disability status once it looks like I've been working again and personally I lost all hope in Americas healthcare industry after multiple treatments that caused more damage than good (one almost killed me twice, two causes permanent liver damage and the list goes on and on) so I've stopped all treatments and learned to live with my body's limitations. I stopped going seeing all my specialists and only keep a primary care physician and that might make SSDI think im better than I am. Back to the point sorry I got off track there, I haven't been able to figure what amount of money people on SSDI can bring in a month before it's a problem, I know there's a video that mentioned people on SSI can bring in like 65? Dollars before it becomes an issue but I don't know if that also applies to SSDI.
You should probably just ignore all of it. Doesn't seem to be work or income so don't even get involved with mashing it up with your taxes.
Doesn't really seem any different then winning a prize on a gameshow. That stuff is considered income as well and you need to pay taxes on it. It is something that Mr. Beast has mentioned when he gives away prizes or Islands, that is all considered income for the value of the items. Some people have had to not take their items because they couldn't afford the taxes on their winnings.
I'm unemployed and receive disability for one of my kids. Since the vine stuff is considered income, can I claim dependents?
I'm not sure, you're best off asking a CPA or tax preparer that question.
I thank you SO much for such important transparency regarding this stupid "program" 😩 .. Seems like way too much of a genuinely unnecessary headache & not at all really even worth it it honestly.
Deleting the "Invitation" (Liability) asap!
You're welcome! I think for some people it's really helpful and for other people as you said it just isn't worth it.
If you feel like accepting the invitation just to find out what's behind the curtain for yourself there's no downside to doing so. You can also quit at any time. But it sounds like you already know what works best for you. Good luck and I'm glad I helped!
Taxes and the IRS is such absurd BS. It's the same way with winning prizes in contests.. they count the cash value as income despite you not being able to get that much money in the real world. Also some contests will make you pay the taxes upfront to receive the car/house, etc... which is awful.. I can imagine a poor person that has this life changing thing dangled in front of them, only for it to be yanked away because they're too poor to be given the keys. But a rich person winning when they probably already have a good house / car / computer / etc.. and don't need it as much. Like wtf.
I understand why we have taxes and limits on gifts, if it's supposed to dissuade people from giving gifts and bribes to elected officials or business people, etc.. then that's great, but it doesn't really matter to rich people if they have to pay a little extra on taxes for something valuable.. but for normal people who just inherited their grandpas Harley or grandmas antique necklace or a house or whatever, then they really might not be able to deal with that despite receiving a cool thing they might actually need.
Do you have any updates? I'm in the same exact boat....I tried like crazy to come up with the tax money, but I can't. And now text season is almost over and I'm getting really scared I don't know what to do or where to turn. I definitely don't want to lose my position in Vine program cuz that has been such a blessing but neither can I afford to lose my benefits. I searched your channel and I can't find any updates from this video
I'm in the process of filing, it's just taking time. I know people need answers on this, truthfully we won't really know until some time after I file how well it goes down. They have up to 3 years to audit me after filing.
I wish I had answers but what I'm doing is a serious risk...if they decide I owed them the taxes then there will be fees and interest taxed on top of that. I'm hoping to get answers for other folks but since CPAs don't know and the IRS doesn't know then it might be some time before we have an answer, probably when I get audited, whenever that is.
Wish I had better news or more of a concrete answer. It's a messed up system.
@@heidimull I understand, thank you very much for answering me.
You probably won't get audited. Considering how confusing the topic has presented itself, you should just ignore the 1099-NEC and go on as if it didn't exist. Who would think you have to pay taxes on junk Amazon asks you to review, doesn't even relate to taxes as far as I can gather. There you go.@@heidimull
Heidi, the most frightening thing in my Adulthood is Tax season, and with me being on Multiple Gov. Assistance Programs, I am CONSTANTLY terrified of adjustments made due to income changes and risk of termination. I was just excepted to the Vine program and wanted to get a visual understanding of the tax side of things, ( as it is very difficult for me to comprehend information thoroughly). I have 3 children soon to be ages 6, 7, & 8. I can't afford to buy items from the Book Fair at their school, let alone pay taxes on what could be extra trash laying around, though I'd hoped we could benefit from this oppertunity somehow. I commend you on your bravery to stand up to this, and my prayers are with you every step of the way because I believe we all do deserve answers. Unfortunately, I know that because of my race, I wouldn't be treated the same, as they would assume I wanted to take advantage of the system, and be quick to make an example out of me and my family: Even though, Amazon is fully responsible for this program design, as I knew nothing about this program until they reached out to me. I thank you for your honesty in sharing your knowledge and experience with us. Your video was the most helpful thus far.
O'munique it's just not okay at all that the system is designed to keep you worrying about doing everything exactly right rather than letting you focus on raising your kids and taking care of yourself. I remember sleeping outside the SSA building in order to get in first thing in the morning because they'd unexpectedly cancelled the benefits I relied on to survive--turns out they'd trashed the required paperwork I sent them rather than put it in my file. I was trembling head to toe. I'm still traumatized recalling it. They shouldn't do this to people.
I hear you. In your case I'd definitely focus on 0ETV items ($0 estimated tax value) for now so you can get limited use of the Vine program without risk.
I'm listening and believe you on how it's more likely for them to make an example of you because of skin color. It's not okay at all. If I can use some of the privilege of my skin color to help you and your babies I will. Hang in there.
P.S. your name is so beautiful!
Thanks Heidi, for everything!! As for my name, I do music, along with building a small soap and perfume business, That's where my husband and I came up with that name... to describe me as being unique.😄😄 It is a name that I use very often as I am trying to make make ends meet in these difficult times as prices rise!! You are awesome!!
@@omuniquethechic6082 that's awesome! I've written a few songs but am not anywhere near brave enough to put them up (yet!).
Can you link to your soap and perfume business? I can't afford any purchases right now but this video has become a little bit popular and perhaps someone else will make a purchase. We've gotta support each other in these times!
I'm guessing the algorithm won't allow me to leave my links because I have responded 4xs now and each time I do, it says reply uploaded but when I check bk nothing is there. So it may be in your YT Studio App under "Held for Review Comments" for potential spam content. But you're awesome Heidi, Don't ever change!! I'm glad I came across your video & had a chance to chat. And you're right about supporting each other, thanks for yours!!🤗🤗
Aww thanks! ❤️ I don't see it under my comments held for review. Bummer. Maybe you could make a video promoting your business and then link to the video?
Anyway I've enjoyed our chat as well. Take care!
1) you are under contract to keep the item 6 months, to ensure you're not reselling
2) this is NOT self employment, you are not under any employment contract with amazon. theres a couple really good videos about it from viners who talked to actual IRS agents. Please contact someone that really know what they are talking about before you file taxes.
did you have to report this "income" to snap/ebt? do they consider it income and did you lose your benefits?
Each time I interact with snap/ebt I mention it and make sure it's in my notes. They always tell me that yes they see it as a note on there, and so long as it is products and not income then they don't care.
I still think there's a chance it would become a problem down the line, which is why I double check every single time, whether it's part of the yearly review or if I'm calling in for some other reason, and I keep asking that they make a note of it.
@@heidimull It's only income in the eyes of the feds, to collect tax. The IRS is the only entity that it gets reported to. You can't report it as income to any other entity, or even friends. You can't say "I'm making 55k a year", because you didn't receive money. Have you received any mail from the IRS, now that it is 2 months after filing?
Having to pay taxes on this stuff is the same pothole that people who win game shows will often fall into. You WON that "New Car" or trip on Price is Right but the government still expects taxes to be paid on them. It often wrecks people who don't realize it.
This is a great idea to do a video on because there are many key differences between winnings and Vine items. Thanks!
@@heidimull I look forward to it.
You could just stay under $600/yr, by ordering 0.0 taxable items. May not be a fancy $800 mattress, but you knew about this when you joined.
Staying under $600/year just means a 1099 doesn't get issued. You are still legally required to report amounts less than $600 to the IRS.
Ordering only $0 taxable items is definitely a viable strategy that a lot of Viners use. If you're happy with that then more power to you!
@@heidimull This is true. as a former twitch streamer I had to report on this too even though I only made around $300 that year. No 1099 was issued but the IRS and my tax guy said I had to report on it.
@@heidimull how do u order $0 taxable items?
@@wepshyam some items are naturally tax free like makeup, some baby items like gates and diapers, and food. Vine members can see the estimated tax value of an item before ordering it, and if that number reads $0.00 then it doesn't even show up at all on taxes.
@@heidimull Thank you so much!
Products count as taxable compensation. You reviewed something as a contractor for reviewing a product which is work. Nothing is free. Quit complaining you are being taxed for working and getting products instead of cash. The program is quite clear on its policy.
You are incredibly intelligent and well-spoken. I don't know what your situation is-but if you have the opportunity and interest please consider going to school and studying law or something in the social work sphere. You have the experience of poverty that helps with your empathy and you have a brilliant mind. Best of luck and thank you for the review of the program.
Thanks so much, your kind words are such a delight to receive.
Any news?
We have to challenge Amazon vine in America , Because am a member too
I hope to do it for the sake of those who can't risk it!
@@heidimull ok
You are too honest for your own good :)
This is a form of barter. In the real world of barter goods or services are traded and either consumed by the bartering parties or sold or traded for other goods. The IRS has always taxed barter. The difference here is that Amazon, because it is a monopoly, places restriction in the contract that apparently limit what you can do with the goods. That is to prevent the goods being sold I suspect. That is anti-competitive and is a consequence of unregulated monopolies. It is like I meet you in the local farmers market and you want to barter with me and exchange my chicken for your cheese, but I stipulate that you can't sell the chicken to your neighbor. Who would barter with that kind of corrupt person. Well, Amazon is a monopoly that wants to use your free labor but stop you from really being able to enjoy the true market value of your labor (your review, which takes time and effort). Your review for Amazon has a market value of the goods you receive, and Amazon reaps the full market value of your reviews; but Amazon, because it is a monopoly, is using its monopoly power to prevent the small contractor from benefiting from the full market value of their labor by not letting the goods received to be sold, yet they must bear the cost of the taxes for the "estimated" value, which is frequently inflated above the true market value, which means you pay more than is fair since you can never know the true market value since you cannot sell the product in the market. This is an unfair anti-competitive contract. If you were to be able to sell the goods you might have to sell them for less than the listed price on Amazon but that would be the real market value that would be taxed by the IRS. If you sold the goods for more than they were listed on Amazon, you would be taxed at that Amount. But since Amazon uses its monopoly power and you cannot sell the goods you are taxed at the "estimated" value which is likely based on Amazon's listed price. Amazon is essentially using your labor and restricting your ability to benefit or receive the true market value of your labor. This is what monopolies do, they rig the market in their favor to limit any form of competition. There is an entire field of economics that studies this very practice. You have hit the nail on the head in your insights; this is unjust, as the real true market value can be far less than what Amazon lists the price (estimated market value) as. It is a rigged market. BTW, we were once neighbors.
Hiii my awesome former neighbor!
I am learning so much from your comment. Yes, the value is often inflated. Sometimes even Amazon has coupons for customers as much as 50% off but Vine reviewers have to "pay" in full price estimated tax value. There was one item, a stroller, that dropped $350 off the price the day after my negative review published saying it wasn't worth the retail price they were charging. I mean I'm glad it's helpful to other customers but I'd like to see a more fair system implemented.
You've given me a lot of food for thought. Do you have any thoughts on a barter system where you have to use/devalue the item as part of the deal in receiving it? It's like, "I will give you cleaning supplies if you clean my house." That seems very different than, say, "I will give you a chicken if you clean my house". For Amazon reviews you have to use the item in order to review it.
@@heidimull Your point is well taken Heidi. Essentially Amazon is shifting many hidden costs off onto the reviewers. This is not a true barter exchange; in my view this is an abuse of the barter business model. This is really a way of getting someone's labor (time and materials) for free "use" of a product but none of the real benefits of ownership in that you cannot do with the goods freely as you would any other goods you own, yet this free "use" comes with hidden costs, which are more than just the tax consequences. This is really a business transaction in the "gig" economy where all the hidden employee costs are shifted to the "independent contractor" who in many cases is unaware of those hidden costs or how to account for them.
First, if you keep detailed records of your actual cost of doing business (time, materials, taxes, etc.) you would know the true value of that “free” item Amazon sent you. And the time doing this accounting is also part of the cost of business. Second, Amazon hides this business transaction under the guise of free stuff (its not, the IRS knows it, and taxes it as a trade in barter because it is all they know to do) and restricts the reviewer’s ability to use the product as freely as they would with any other item they own (e.g., I don’t need my old baby stroller anymore so I can sell it), yet they must bear the tax burden even if the item is worth less than the “estimated” tax value.
This is really a “gig” economy transaction where the reviewer provides a service (time and labor and materials) which Amazon gets without paying any real wages but passes on all the tax burdens to the “gig” worker. This doesn’t seem like a win/win transaction, at least not when the hidden costs are truly accounted for.
In a real business you are able to deduct your cost of doing business from your tax liability. As this transaction is setup, I am not sure you can deduct your cost of business expenses. That might be worth researching. But nevertheless, you are fully liable for the tax consequences of over inflated list price Amazon sets on its site.
I know of a few good books you might find informative. David Weil is a great overview of how this is done in the "gig" economy. While not exactly your situation it is very similar in intent and consequences:
.... As major companies have consciously invested in building brands and devoted customers as the cornerstone of their business strategy, they have also shed their role as the direct employer of the people responsible for providing those products and services. (Weil 2014, 2-3)
By shedding direct employment, lead business enterprises select from among multiple providers of those activities and services formally done inside the organization, thereby substantially reducing costs and dispatching the many responsibilities connected to being the employer of record [saving as much as ~30% in employee benefits no longer paid]. Information and communication technologies have enabled this hidden transformation of work.... By shedding employment to other parties, lead companies change a wage-setting problem into a contracting [and price] decision. The result is stagnation of real wages [and loss of employee benefits] for many of the jobs formerly done inside. (Weil, David. The Fissured Workplace [Why Work Became So Bad For So Many And What Can Be Done To Improve It]. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Press; 2014; pp. 3-4.)
.... In essence, private strategies and public policies allow major companies to simultaneously profit from the core activities that create value in the eyes of customers and the capital markets and shed the actual production of goods and services. In so doing, they have their cake and eat it too. (Weil 2014, 4-5)
So much to think about. Thank you for the detailed reply!
Grade A content!
Thank you!
How did you review more in $$ than you made in a year of working in your first two months?
you are limited to 3 items per day up to 100$ so theoretically you can get $300 a day in goods, but your tax on that is whatever your state sales tax is, here in CT it is 6.34% or something like that, just over 6% or $18.00 per day if I max out my vine items and amounts.
18 x 30 is $540 per month in taxes if I were to max it out, which I don't.
I'm looking at it like this, I get the items for their tax liability and in the beginning, it isn't that much as you are limited to 3 items a day up to 100 per item.
I think value wise I'm up to 2300 or so, so it should be sales tax I am responsible for, 6% in Ct.
I'm trying to hang in there until I get my 6-month review and move up to the gold tier and can review more expensive items I actually need like laptops and phones, tvs, and amps etc..
the tax liability is a lot less than buying the items and paying tax on them.
I work full time so it doesn't hurt anything for me other than I have to pay the tax on these amounts next year.
I joined before the tiered system, so I was immediately allowed 8 items a day with no $ limits.
As I'm now into my second year doing this, I already have much of what I need so I'm ordering a lot less items.
@@heidimull oh I see.
I just got an invite, and am trying to learn a little more before deciding to sign up. This is some interesting info, but you sound like you're hunting for a "loophole" to get out of owing the taxes. I would guess this kind of stuff would be considered more like a "prize" income, not employment income. Sort of like if you win a $30,000 car in a contest, you're not going to get out of paying taxes on it because you write a review.
Are there rules against donating the stuff to charity when you're done with it? I'm wondering if for some of the stuff it would be easier to drop it off at a Goodwill and get a donation receipt (and that way you don't have to store it somewhere for a year or more, which seemed like a weird suggestion).
Although you seem to be getting good use out of this stuff I'm seeing multiple other videos where people just seem to be requesting a bunch of random crap just because they can, which to me doesn't seem like it would be worth either the time or taxes in exchange for what you're getting 🤔
(Edit) Ok found the details on selling, etc. Agreement says you have to keep the item for at least six months before selling or giving it to someone else. You can "destroy" (throw away) the product at any time.
It is considered self employment, which falls under running your own business and makes you eligible to deduct necessary business expenses. For example, if someone had a TH-cam channel for reviewing items and purchased an item for the purpose of reviewing it on their channel, the cost of that item could be deducted from their income as a necessary business expense. And yes, if that is your business model then reviewing the item does indeed qualify as necessary business use.
It's not trying to get out of owing taxes, rather it's about only paying the amount you actually owe. Since I realized there's a gap in understanding I made a new video, check it out! th-cam.com/video/IuE6jup7N4U/w-d-xo.html
I'm actually wondering about the donation receipt thing myself. I've always requested a receipt when I donate and never received one, but perhaps that's because in the past I didn't donate enough? I'm about to donate a bunch of Vine items and I'll insist on a receipt this time. I'm just not super familiar with how that works because they've never given me one in the past.
The bottom line is that you will get a 1099-NEC from Amazon and so will the IRS. Doesn't matter what you do with the item, if the item is good or bad, the 1099-NEC is the Estimated Tax Value. All else is a red herring. It's not complicated. I've been in Vine since the start of the program. BTW, I am low income, one program. I use common sense on the items I pick and it has helped me get items to clothe and feed my family.
I'm glad it's working out so well for you! I agree, if you are fine with how it's set up then it's not complicated. If you are fine with limiting how much income you make (items you pick counting as income) so that you can afford to pay taxes and that feels like common sense to you, then by all means don't let me be a wet blanket!
@heidimull Just yesterday paid income tax of $1,500 on last year's vine items. The total value of vine items was $15k. My tax preparation professional was also of the opinion that the setup was unclear but advised to pay it rather than trigger years of audit.
I think the UK is different.
update update update
You should of just recorded the conversation then you can do what you want, you have evidence that tells you they don't know what to do for you, so you can do whatever you fancy lol
I hadn’t realized the program was for regular customers, had assumed it was influencers. I was invited today and ordered three items I’ll review.
Wanted to leave a comment since I watched a few of your vids and wanted to say you have an engaging video presence. I think you can do well on TH-cam if the algorithm exposes enough potential viewers. Best of luck!
Awww shucks thank you. ❤️ It means a lot to get a confidence booster like that from someone completely unbiased.
Congrats on your Vine invite!!
Too bad you can't send the products you end up not liking as payment of your taxes, hey? So glad I'm not in the USA for this purpose and if Canada/the CRA ever follows suit it would absolutely change how I use the program.
Hahaha I wish!
Could it be that you cant sell an Amazon Vine Item as it is Tax Deductible as disposed or given away for product review, but soon as the item is sold it would then be classed as taxable because then Amazon has technically paid you/? However if you bin the Item then Amazon hasn't paid you, What about your time, what is your time worth as far as tax goes, if you go by what the minimum wage would be in a job and add up the hours spent creating videos and reviews, is this Tax deductible?
Sounds like if you have no Income other than products that cant benefit you as far as eating and keeping a roof over your head, and all your furniture is on layaway or on finance, then technically you couldn't pay any tax as you have no money to pay with and they cant take the house or the furniture as it all belongs to the finance company or property owner, in which case what can the IRS do to get tax out of somebody who is technically on paper bankrupt?
Sorry i think im rambling again, another great and interesting video.
What how much did you rack up? If you don't mind me asking
I'm still trying to decide if I want to share that or not. 😂
Im Glad that Germany does not have this tax shit, everything is literally free
So glad things are more sensible in Germany! My heritage is mostly German; I hope to visit someday.
Oh, the IRS? The same IRS who just hired 87,000 more agents and gave them all guns? 😂- They don’t have an answer for you? 😂 😂
This person must be on public assistance to know a lot about it.
Yep! I have an entire playlist documenting my journey towards my goal of getting off all forms of assistance by the end of 2023.
I have to call BS on this and call it what it is, defrauding a system, or several systems, that were intended as a helping hand for people in need. So if you get "no value" for the products Amazon sends you, then why would you do it ? You do it because you DO get value in the products they send you. Just because it isn't cash doesn't mean what you receive has no value. Why should everyone else, not on a assistance program, have to pay taxes on the value of the product but you shouldn't have to ? So not only do you want to live off tax paying Americans but you want to be able to get products of value and not have to pay taxes on them. Where do you think the money comes from to pay for all the assistance programs you are on, thats right, hard working Americans paying their taxes so you can continue to defraud the system. It is my sincere hope that the IRS sees this and April 2024 is an eye opening experience for you.
Your criticisms are just completely selfish and should be aimed at the IRS rules and for example the greedy tax system that makes expats have to pay taxes twice if they live and work abroad, luckily for me being a brit living in the UK my vine items are not taxable and many countries in Europe and even Canada its the same, but this lady is sucking off the system because she gets free stuff and you are not 🙄 just sounds like jealousy to me !
@@DL-ep5uk Can't say I care what people in Canada and UK do or don't have to do in terms of taxes, that has had no impact on what we do in the US since 1776. Your argument makes no sense, you are saying that you should be compensated for working since that is what Vines requires of you to get free and reduced cost items. Every other working person in America pays taxes on income they make from their employment but because these people receive goods instead of a paycheck, they shouldn't have to pay taxes on it, its compensation for employment. If it wasn't they wouldn't get issued a 1099 at the end of the year. What about the person that owns a small store, received boxes from their distributer, has to open and store those boxes, has to stock the shelves, post prices etc. They have to pay for that merchandise, and pay taxes on the profits from that merchandise.
So I received an invite from Amazon with the URL being https: & amazon and all that, to make sure I called amazon and they said, amazon did not send you this email.
Are scammers that sophisticated? I know Chinese hackers took over an amazon domain posing as a review site, what to do.
This is tricky. I can tell you you wouldn't be the first to suspect a legit Vine invite is a scam email. And from my personal experience I wouldn't be surprised if the rep you spoke with was taking a best guess based on scam scripts they've been given to read out rather than definitively telling you that email specifically was not sent by Amazon.
The best advice I can give you is if you click the link and the sign up process itself looks fishy, then it probably is. It should be very straightforward with clear guidelines spelled out. You do have to submit a W9 (if in the US) so that will have your personal and tax info on it. If you don't feel comfortable giving out your social security number you could get a TIN (taxpayer identification number) to use instead.
Once you sign up, you can join private Vine groups (Reddit, Facebook, Discord) where they discuss non-public info and you could get reassurance that you're on the correct site that way. I just don't see a way to get that reassurance ahead of time without disclosing non-public info, which I and other Viners are not at liberty to do.
I hope that helps a bit!
Hi Heidi, You are AMAZING! And you are fun to watch on TH-cam! I have been patiently waiting to hear what happened with the taxes and filing. I am in vine and I am wondering how to file the best way that I can.. With the most deductions if possible.. I am very interested to hear back from you. =) I love all of your videos! Thanks for posting!!! =D I am also low income..
I am wondering if anyone lost their foodshare or healthcare benefits after filing their taxes? Did foodshare and or healthcare count this as income? Thanks.
Hey Amanda! I have filed, I want to make a video on it I've just been struggling to do so.
I have to be clear though that the way I am filing is very risky and I cannot recommend others follow my example until we know for certain that it would work out. If you were to follow my example...and I do plan to make a video detailing what I did, thanks for the friendly little butt kick that direction LOL....but if you were to follow my example and it doesn't work out, there would be massive fees and interest owed. It could backfire big time.
And the problem is even though my tax filing has been accepted and everything, they have up to 3 years to audit me. So we don't immediately know if it's "okay" or not. In fact, a part of me honestly hopes I'll be audited so that I can get clear answers from whomever audits me. Without an audit, we don't know if I'm just accidentally flying under the radar, or if it's genuinely okay.
I'll explain more detailed info in the video. Sorry you're in this position, it's such a rough thing to navigate.