Listening to this brings back the pain. I remember when I was in that precarious situation of comtemplating suicide. One of the smug elders asked me, "Isn"t this what you wanted?" I am so glad I did not give them the satisfaction to stand before the podium one day and say that I committed suicide because I left Jehovah and his organization because I remember an elder making a comment during a Watchtower study about a brother that committed suicide. I did get reinstated (that was years ago) but now I am awake and know TTATT. Please Kari get help by a professional like I did and not give up. I am now married to a wonderful man, not a JW never was a JW. I regret wasting over 60 years of my life in that cult. I wish you the best!
Wow what he said about her son having to make the truth his own at his age and circumstances? This shows such a lack of love and how they don't follow their own consul about "fatherless boys". Bravo to Kari in pulling the actual "truth" out of this "gift of men". Thank you for sharing.
There is nothing worse when one is screaming to the top of one's lungs, on the outside and on the inside, for someone to hear their cries, and "NOBODY" hears or/and ignores. Not only is speaking to this guy like begging to a cold dead will of steal and no conscience, but is also like dealing with death itself. That might sound terrible, but who, when someone is so ill, treats someone in that way? She is of no use to the slave-driver while ill, and for that reason the slave-driver has declared her unworthy of the master's, shepherd's, and sheep's help. Very sad!
I know who this family is. I'm so saddened to hear all of this. Further confirmation as to why I got the hell out of this cult and never looked back. The programming goes so deep that even the natural God given compassion placed in our hearts is abandon to follow "protocol". God bless her and her son, I baby sat his cousins and remember him as a child. My wish is that she and her son would find freedom outside of the organization and have peace and experience true unconditional love.
WOW! It broke my heart to hear the pain she was going through. These men are very dangerous! They have no training but they think God put them in their positions to counsel people yet they do more damage than good. It is no wonder that JW's have a high rate of suicide and depression. I know she has a long road to recovery and I hope she is doing better. A big hug to Kari.
"We can't pick you up and escort you to the Hall" no but you can check on her and her son. Kari is a very brave and strong woman despite all the adversities. Those of you who are deeply depressed: she has shown there is always hope, even when others are trying to thwart you
Yes exactly, what is to sto them from checking up on them? If they had actually cared about these 2 of their own flock they would certainly have paid them a visit. And yes they can pick her up and escort her to meetings! My dad was always doing that for people, giving them lifts to meetings, assemblies, even the bloody airport when they went on holidays. Isn't that what being a Christian is about? Selfless acts for others? WTF is this idiot talking about?!
It's all about procedure and rules. I was going through a whole year of feeling suicidal and talking about killing myself. I eventually gave in to smoking a few cigarettes. As soon as that happened a judicial commitee was called, right when I was at my most vulnerable and could barely talk or express my feelings. I phoned an elder to express my concern that it'd gone to a judicial so quickly and at a time when I was in so much pain and could only be dealt with by doctors. The elder said it's just 'the way it has to be done', and he didn't take into account the state I was in or anything but just focused on procedure. He also said they've got to 'protect the congregation', well I smoked briefly in private and had barely seen the congregation for a whole year. All this talking about killing myself, but then a bit of smoking was unacceptable because of course smoking is bad for you.
I'm shaking as I listen to this. I'm trying to keep inside the four letter words I would love to say to this disgusting, evil elder. To the brave sister who recorded this, you are an amazing person, and your son is brave too. Please don't give up in your fight for true happiness, love and peace and exposing this evil cult.
The truth shall set you free! I hope this former member flies like a bird and embraces her freedom and her truth. God bless her and her family. Good riddens to the chains of the WT.
This is a perfect example why the Watchtower can not be saved or fixed. It is LEGALISTIC. Compare this video to Jesus words "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more" 5 seconds.! You heard it. Loyalty to the Slave not Jesus.
All this elder cares about is these people getting to the meetings. My hope and prayer is that this woman and her son stay away from the WT. I hope this video goes viral so others are warned. This is NOT Jehovah's organisation. Jehovah most certainly is NOT directing the elders of this congregation who are heartless ********* !
wow he admits others are emotionally sick in the congregation, this guy is a liar and is trying to wipe his hands of the responsibility that these so called shepherd are suppose to help, she handled it well. Jehovah has not provided any direction to the congregation otherwise they would have done their best to help her and her son, putting the blame back on here, go to meetings and we will help forget the lost sheep the sick and orphan boy, disgusting evil organization.
Seriously, this elder is putting the blame on her, because he didn't have the time to fulfill his position in the congregation. I too have gone through this. I was on suicide watch, at the time my children were under 10 years of age, and not once did they come to check on any of us. It is so sad to know that unless you go to every meeting, you are not worthy of their attention. You are very brave to come forward with your experience. XOX
Yes someone being raped, and saying they asked for it. The stupidity of society. Elders doing this, and going on with their day, like all is good in the world. Some times I think, what would like to be inside the mind of an elder who is like this. How warped their perception on "kingdom matters", really is. I think I would throw up.
I love the attempt at minimizing the legal culpability of the elders and the JWs by saying that, at a certain point, helping a suicidal one is no longer in their plan. Eric, I know you were probably not like these elders-at least I hope you were not. But every time I watch videos like this it makes me more aware of the "power trip" that most elders are on. The elders in my judicial committee were cocky, but at that point it didn't even matter to me. But to act like he did with someone who is so "fragile" nauseates me. Great video!
After listening to this conversation, I cannot believe how close minded this elder is. As a ex jw/ ministerial servant I am angry knowing this is how people r spoken to behind closed doors. There is no empathy towards someone who is suicidal. The only thing that was consistent in conversation was "u and ur son were not at the meetings.". WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
Omg, I'm so sorry for how they treated you, Kari! That was SO wrong. You've done NOTHING wrong here. But they tried to lead you away from asking questions. That's why, they haven't been trying to help you in any form or wanting to help you back. I can see that. Remember. God is within, not in any church or any governing body or Kingdom Hall. I hope that helps. I'm sorry for your loss. You've done nothing wrong. Your son should've received all love and care, and, so should've you.
At 12:27 "the direction provided" Direction from whom? There are a slurry of scriptures that talk about forgiveness, love and mercy, yet, NONE that talk about judicial committees. So are they following Jesus or men?
We all know despite being exposed as a fraud and cold hearted he justified his stance within 10 minutes of the end of your phone call Kari. I hope you are doing well and have maintained that incredible strength you showed towards the end of that phone call.
That elder reminded me of ours. My son was 15, He was going to meetings but starting to miss some so I ask our wonderful ( so I thought) elder who claimed to be of the heavenly group, if he would talk to him. His Dad was drunk all the time so no help there. When he came to the house he had 2 others with him. They walked in my son's room stayed long enough to say your going to meetings or we will dis-fellowship you. I think his response was something like he didn't have to or they couldn't make him go. They walked out saying nothing to me.He told me later what happened as I was not in there of course. The following Sun. they announced he was dis-fellowshipped. Surprised me. Shortly after he started going back to meetings and after a couple of months the elder that thinks he will be King in heaven came up to me and said I don't care how many meetings he comes to he will never ever be reinstated.He heard that so just quit going, I mean why go he was never going to get back in. Shortly after my other son was in a horrible car accident and lucky he came out of a coma and lived. My Mother from another state came to help when he got out of the hospital and died while at my house. All this in a few months. Not one witness called or came by period. I had another son who was in an accident and same thing not one came to see him either. His friends that was not JW's was there constantly caring about him. I quit going and since have read much about them and their organization. In fact the truth they taught me I now find out was not the truth. Everything changed since the things they said would happen didn't. I am so happy to be out of there. More so since I now realize they are a control freak cult.
This conversation was very heartbreaking because as she was stressing and pouring out her heart to him, it was obvious he was not moved at all and didn't care that she was hurting. I faded many years ago when there was no support like JWStruggle or anything else on the internet. This elder sounds just like my brother who is an elder and just as robotic. It is another long sad story and I know the ending is going to be horrific. My brother moved out of state with his 2nd wife, whom he could not stand but doesn't have the balls to do anything about. He no longer will communicate with me bc as he stated "....unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity. You haven't been active for almost 40 years" That was absolutely the stupidest thing he could have said. I responded with what's what about how he just picked up and left the state and didn't say goodbye to his children not tell them he was leaving. They were absolutely traumatized and to this day (9 years later) do not know why he did that. They were not baptized. They have never visited him nor do they have anything other than a P.O. Box for him. I know he thinks that his backing off after all these years and not communicating is hurting me but, truly I feel sorry for him because I know he is a completely miserable person. Like so many others, there is so much to this story and it is quite painful. I have absolutely no tolerance for any religion that divides families and praises those who shun their own family. My entire family is completely dysfunctional and it is all due to upbringing as a JW. It has helped me after all these years to hear and read about all the other experiences. I thought I was alone and left because it was just so rigid and unrealistic. I wanted to live a normal life and not feel I had to constantly looking over my shoulder. Both parents are deceased. My father was an elder and my mother was a JW til the end. It truly is a cult. My parents were not happy and loving people and I am so happy to be away from this complete mind control. it is dangerous and can scar people for life.
he was going to say there is no stumbling block however Jesus said. Mark 9:42 "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.
Stepan Stepanov They care about people's corporate membership. At 18:00 Dan likens the boy, a member of the congregation, to an employee who doesn't show up for work. Did you notice that? All the burden is on the boy. The only work these guys do is judicial, to judge and throw people out based on how they read their "heart".
message to Kari: I salute you! You are one amazing person. My personal belief is that God can be found in most places - but one where He definitely is NOT, is the WTBTS, so I stopped looking for Him there. I'm speechless at the way the elder turned everything around, at every opportunity, to put what is his responsibility back onto you and your son - how dare he, and I sincerely hope he has trouble sleeping at night. I also pray that this conversation with you will be his first step in waking up, once he reflects on his lack of decency and love. I have the upmost respect for you Kari and wish you and your son well. Your experience is similar to mine, but mine was a very long time ago and I've just woken up to that fact that it is still going on, and I'm appalled by what I've discovered. Stay strong and rebuild your life, not only is this what you both deserve, but it will also serve to expose this cruel organization. Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing.
This is so disturbing. My last, and I do mean last, sheparting call, I also poured out my heart and was told my problem was that I thought too much of myself. I was putting self first. I will never have them in my home again and I will never again step foot inside a kingdom hall.
How absolutely sick!! So you only bother with anyone who goes to the hall! Plus unless they ask for help you completely ignore them! Even when you know there are serious problems within the family and your mother is suicidal. He then says they have done their best!!! Same old drivel, come to the meetings, is the only solution!!! So unbelievable!
It seems this type of elder behavior is quite prevalent. The answers I would get for the lack of return phone calls or reaching out to a needy member was " the elders have a full plate, jobs, families, and problems." I know , but the lack of compassion or interest , the condescending manner which elders speak to the flock at times( women mostly) is sickening. . A 30 second phone call can work miracles. The flock is just as busy. The Flock have jobs,. family, problems. Elders were appointed to shepherd. Period. There is no shepherding going on. Unless you are part of the club. In the click. And... there are clicks. The true God will find his sheep and He will save them. I thank God I am out of that dark mess. I had become suicidal. I did not share it. I did not need to share to know how unloving some men and women can be. I now try and remember they are human. I am so happy to be out. What a prison I was in. I'm sorry you did not get the support you needed, but I am so happy you are out. At least I hope you are. You have blessings untold coming. I promise.
Pure evil. The thing he's never Gonna feel bad about what he has said to her because he's blind and pure evil minded person. Just horrible people. And I wish that lady all the best and I have she's doing really good and of course her son too.
There are quite a few like this in the org. I never envied wives. This personality type, even if he left JWs, would some how minimize what he had done to others. Many sociopaths in the world, some religious some not. He loves the emotional tormenting. Many do.
Luke 15:4-6 comes to mind. You leave the 99 which are doing fine to go after the one that is lost. I guess this elder is not in any way a good shepherd. He could learn a thing or two if he actually read the Bible for himself.
+David Saunders I served on an elder body with the man. You hit the nail on the head, he is very Pharisaical and self righteous. I mentioned him a few times on my video series Elder Recollections.
I was driving while I listened to this, and almost had three accidents. I would love to take that fanny pack and put it just there. It really does not surprise me that an organization who throws children under the rug that needs blood transfusions would also throw disfellowshipped people down who are suicidal. Their love is only conditional. Only people coming to their meeting are worth their "time." Elder needs to be remember that Jesus still addressed Judah as " friend. " When the organization is clearly in the wrong the infamous excuse is " they are imperfect men." But when they want to tell you how to live your life they are perfect - assigned by God and given that God given authority. I'm sorry Watchtower,you can't have it both ways you're either governed by God or you're imperfect. Imperfection and God does not belong in the same sentence . The bottom line is, the elders dropped that ball and they need to admit that they failed and that the organization who is directing them has failed. And just like the Carrie said, they will stand before God one day an answer to him for their stupidity.
Holy crap. Dan is likening a sister who suffers from depression to Judas Iscariot. He actually did that. Now he's using faithful and discreet slave to prove the governing body. This is exasperation itself. These are just assholes. Publicize these elders names and businesses.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!it's all about making meetings. He made an example about how it's like going to work. How is Church like work. People go there to get refreshed not work some more! The elders should have ask the boy to come over (with their wife's present) and just have took her out or made her dinner and not bombarded her with church stuff!, but be genuinely kind to her. And no matter how many meetings she missed, should have taken care of her and her son regardless.
Oh my heart. This poor woman. This man is disgusting!! Reminds me of when I reached our to an elder begging for help due to severe depression, and he told me, "Sometimes, when someone is drowning, they have to yell out for help." I just looked at him and said, "I have no voice left to yell," and I walked away.
What a TOOL that elder was! I always felt when selecting qualified congregation elders, they were always just scraping the bottom of a barrel and dredging up some of the worst people to be leaders of the flock.
From what I've noticed from being in the Congregation for 19 years (Soon to get out of it, when I move out of the house), is that when it comes to mental illnesses, Jehovah's witnesses don't know what to do. You're instructed to pray and Jehovah will pull you out of it but when I went through a sever depression when I was sixteen praying didn't do shit. Going to the meetings just made me feel worse. I was suicidal because I thought fuck it. I'm not going to be in paradise anyway, I can't live up to these standards. That was also about the time I finally realized I was bi. And no matter what your personal thoughts are on that, it just added to my depression, given how badly witnesses are attacking the LGBT+ community recently. I went to a therapist and that helped me far more than prayer and the bible did. Sometimes your mind gets sick and sometimes you need actual medicine and someone to talk to about your issues rather than a 2,000 year old book and praying to someone that may or may not exist.
Wow sounds just like me. Im 17 n im gay n going to the kingdom hall is just so depressing for me espessially since now everybody knows about me in my congregation. But hey thx for posting now i dont feel so alone.....
Wesley Main There are more gay ex-jw's than you think. And they're getting more and more vocal thanks to the attack the JW's are launching against Homosexuality.
she and other members of that congregation almost lost their homes...., Watchtower never "almost" lose their Kingdom Halls or Assembly Halls. Yet they expect people to 'make it rain' for future projects. Sophia is hungry...would love an ice cream cone, but the WT would rather she put that money in the box. OMG
This HEARTLESS, Demeaning, condescending, proud, arrogant, Poor excuse for a shepherd/ELDER should be removed immediately. ( but sadly wont be and stumble and destroy more lives as MANY others are similarly doing ) He "shut the door of tender compassion "on this sister and her son in severe pain and in need of understanding and comfort. Something Jesus would have NEVER done. He demands the LAW and has completely lost the SPIRIT OF THE LAW. MODERN DAY PHARISEE ! This sister IS RIGHT ON with her simple questions and wanting truthful legitimate answers and all she got was poor excuses and justifications and scriptures and reasoning that did not even apply. Listening to it was heart wrenching and broke my heart, Is there a way correspond with her and provide support and comfort ??? How could she ever respect this non human void of any feelings again ? I
I am so hard broken for this sister. I too am suicidal and bottom line is they don't want a broken person in this cult . you can't offer money I am just working on getting out and all 4 sisters and my mom and many other family are calling me apostate. It is hard. I can't understand why you cant bring a family member in? why so there are no witnesses to what they say to you.. I need help so anyone out there who has been out and can help me please help. going to a counselor today but they really dont' understand. Love you all May God bless you all
Yes ... the Elders are following the direction of the man-made organization. But that direction does NOT have any scriptural backing!! In fact the scriptural precedence is exactly the opposite. (See Deuteronomy 17:2-7 - Notice there is no indication that the older men judged this man in private, keeping the names of the witnesses secret for the sake of confidentiality, then brought him to the people so they could stone him on the word of the older men alone.) (See also Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - It is clear that when dealing with issues involving the death penalty under Israelite law the case was heard publicly at the city gates.) ------------------------------------------ The following is a quote from a 1981 Awake magazine: “Speedy and Public Trial” Guidelines for judicial procedure in the United States are found in the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution. “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial . . . to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” Did justice in Bible times employ these guidelines? Indeed it did. Criminal trials were doubtless much speedier in Israel than they are at present in countries such as the United States, where clogged courts and elaborate procedure give rise to many delays. Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings. What about witnesses? Witnesses in Bible times were required to testify publicly. For this reason they were warned not to be influenced in their testimony by the pressure of public opinion “so as to turn aside with the crowd in order to pervert justice.” Perjury was not punished with a jail term, but with whatever punishment the false witness had sought to bring upon the defendant-even death!-Ex. 23:2; Deut. 19:15-21.” - (Awake! 1981, 1/22, Pg. 17, Searching Out Legal Roots) -------------------------------------------------- Although, when convenient, the Watchtower organization frequently goes back to Mosaic law and law procedures for support for its policies, but it should be noted that it acts exactly contrary to the principles presented in this Awake article when it comes to their “judicial committee” arrangement. Though it praises the influence toward "carefulness and justice" that public hearings produce, the reality is that all Jehovah’s Witness "judicial committee" hearings are, by organizational policy, held precisely in the form of "secret star-chamber hearings," with the result that the committee is, in effect, answerable only to itself.
Isn't it interesting... just how contradictory, that the "org" is when they say in situations like this one, and when getting baptized, that YOU ARE A FREE MORAL AGENT AND MUST MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOURSELF and make efforts on YOUR OWN to go to meetings. In other words, nobody can force you to become baptized, YOUR decision to do that is up to YOUR OWN conscience. When it comes to encouraging Kari's son, taking the lead in shepherding him, taking him under their wing, the responsibility is HIS to go to meetings on his own, and "to make the truth his own" even though he may not have a car, or may be feeling discouraged because his mother is DF'd..., YET, once you are baptized or reinstated, you no longer have the right to making decisions BY YOURSELF, nor FOR YOURSELF; Instead, you must rely upon the GOVERNING BODY and their literature to study God's word the bible, not any other literature, nor any other source, nor are you allowed to have doubts, ideas, and beliefs contrary to the governing body's ideology. So the question arises... Do you, or do you NOT have a mind of your OWN to question, wonder, doubt, believe, know, and SHARE such ideas, WITHOUT the "org's" manipulation? Do you somehow become a moron or idiot AFTER baptism or reinstatement so that you can no longer make decisions for yourself? Realizing this, why would anyone want to be a mindless lamb in submission to an organization of men who disrespect your god given right to live in the image of God?
wonder if these elders have ever really read the bible in context of the prodigal Son, he was welcomed back immediately didn't have to sit outside the home for months on end being shunned by his family.
No praying and laying on hands for the sick ones in this organized lack of loving kindness, and so bring deep reproach on the name of Jehovah God himself...chapter 34 of Ezekiel well describes what is in store for these so called shepherds.
No love no compassion showed for this lady period.One rule for everybody no exceptions for those who are sick this is shamful behavior.He does not care neighther do the GB.She is hurting and is getting no help.
most comments I have read, people are picking on the elder. This woman has serious issues...she is combative in her speaking with him. Just because the Elder is misguided by the teachings of JW, I think he deserves some credit for trying to reason with a person who only wants to find fault. I didn't find him unkind under the circumstances. An 18 year old boy has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The common persona amongst elders is a sly cunning phoney personality trait. They give the appearance. Of being nice little innocent 😇 lambs but lo and behold their TRUE COLORS SHOW I am 17 years old and guess what this is what woke me up my waking up was internal the programming was VERY short lived I was 7 years old when I got serious into the Jehovah's cult my parents (my father) was the only one in the cult me and my father experienced This woke me up all this so called "divine guidance" is all in the mind. Disfellowshipping is just a means of guilt tripping people to come back to them. The whole promoting of not being friends is just a method of control
Matthew 24:45-47, at the 4:40 mark on this recording. Jesus said the faithful and discreet slave were going to FEED the sheep not provide direction, but food. And if they follow the "master" (Jesus) so well, then why are they forgoing love and mercy and sticking with tradition. These brothers are a prime example of what Jesus was telling about the pharisees in Matthew 15, "YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines" NOTICE this is from their NWT Bible. So I reckon when translating they condemned themselves. Also, why do they NEVER point out was the rest of what Jesus said about the slave in 48-51?
Don't make up hypothetical situations of 'what would Jesus do?' scenarios for me to answer especially when its obvious Jesus would have acted in the opposite way as to how I treated you. In the NEXT second he gives a completely imaginary scenario as fact: 'Jesus is in heaven, he has assigned the FDS the GB and given them authority over the worldwide congregation and they obediantly follow the master'. How ironic. It seems like that is the main, maybe the only thing that is being drilled from the top. WHY does the Judicial Committee have to always be a 3-1 ratio? 3 against 1 is not fair and not even biblical. By their OWN RULES there should be 2 or more witnesses for the person whose JC it is. If they say something happened during the JC there is only their word for it. Why should not a suicidal person have some support for their own trial? Why should the trial be secret? Its all so wrong and weird but growing up JW its all you ever know and you don't understand or have any way to quantify your experience, in addition you are also trained to be submissive and subservient to these men so you have no chance of questioning what is happening. BTW Even if you DO go to all the meetings they won't notice it anyway, they will think its 'VERY RARELY'. Jesus said the sick ones are the ones that need a Dr, that need Medical attention. Not well people who are spiritually strong. This man is A DICK! The way he talks to her about her son is despicable. After admitting finally that he did nothing for her son he should have apologised not projected his guilt and blame onto her and her SON! I guess they really do put people into the garbage bin. How disgusting. I am ashamed of this elder treating someone in obvious mental and emotional distress in such a callous, unfeeling way. I bet you he DOES sleep at night. People like that have no conscience
'where have you been!?' Aren't the elders the ones who are supposed to go looking for the weak ones? Shepherding calls? If they were that 'concerned', they would have reached out to offer guidance and help regardless of age. I can't believe this guy saying about her son because of his age. And he is saying they are not worth it because others have the same situations as her and they still turn up to meetings. Jesus said a Dr doesn't go to the well ones he goes to the ill ones. I hate this man he is TYPICAL of all the elders I ever met
Have you ever seen the movie called the giver? JWs reminds me of the brainwashing town. And the giver helped the boy escape to be normal. If you have not seen the movie . see it.
She should seek medical attention. All she does is threaten the elder with suicide if they don't reinstate her. It's not about crying. It's about fixing her relationship with God
I mostly feel for anyone who is disfellowshipped because i went through it Twice. but i honestly dont see what this elder did in this instance that was so wrong. the girl was mostly hysterical and he was mostly just listening her. i kept WAITING for the part where this elder said or did something that was so wrong and then SUDDENLY the tape ends without there being even a whisper of him being cruel or insensitive as this taped recording had led me to believe ! i mean did the girl actually believe that she was going to get reinstated because she was crying or telling the elder that she was suicidal. the worst part was she VERY transparently USING her son in a ploy to attempt to gain additional sympathy which i thought was childish at best. this what i call girl was EXTREMELY manipulative and controlling of the conversation and seemed hell bent on instilling the elder with a GUILT TRIP at EVERY opportunity ! this has been a REAL eye opener for me. if u apostates are all like this which i now HIGHLY Suspect then NO WONDER most of u were disfellowshipped to begin with !
Toby Taggart, you have NO IDEA of what you are speaking of here whatsoever!! I know this family intimately, including ALL the circumstances, the entirety of ALL that was involved in the grueling process & dealings she endured from these Elders... I know ALL the FACTS INVOLVED, (unlike your callous 'ASSUMPTIONS', your drawing of COMPLETELY WRONG conclusions, about her 'intentions' & as to the 'kind of person she is')- You made a COMPLETE ASS out of yourself by doing this sir!! You have also showed yourself to be an INCREDIBLY JUDGMENTAL individual!!! Especially in light of having NO personal knowledge of this situation, or even the slightest CLUE of what has truly transpired, prior to her finally recording one of these men!! Which was originally ONLY recorded by her so that her parent could hear the conversation, should it be a bad interaction again. So she could have proof for that parent, if she needed it..... Good thing she did record it, because it DID go bad again & she had the proof!!! Even her active JW family members in VERY GOOD standing, some of whom PERSONALLY got involved by calling, emailing her committee & more, because they were extremely upset at how she & her son were being treated!!! So knock off your self-righteous attitude... And btw, WHAT are you even doing on any of these sites? WHY are you watching EX-JW videos, when you KNOW the GB has told you not to & that you would be in trouble with your Elders if they found out??? If you were doing it because you personally needed help or are searching for answers to questions or doubts that are plaguing you, that would be one thing... But all you did was judge & slam her & EVERY OTHER person who commented on this comment thread... Maybe looking at videos from EX-JW's is not what's best for you personally.... & If that rings true for you, you should probably STOP TROLLING them!! If they aren't helpful for your personal life & all you want to do is spew judgement on people who want to be on these sites, perhaps it's time you stop TROLLING & BASHING people & just go away.... Just a thought sir.....
There seems to be a lot of hate and speaking in absolutes in this comment section. Where is the constructive comments and criticism that used to be here? Characterizing the majority of men are elders as rapist or closet rapist doesn't seem to be helpful or particularly related to this woman experience. Thoughtful and realistic critiquing with evidence of how messed up and how many mistakes they have historically made is what usually gets people to think and reconsider their life choices. But blanket bashing especially without proof just makes us look like we are angry people pissed off that we are on the outside. I know most of us are not, but someone passing by and reading the comments below confirms everything that they incorrectly spew about us from the stage.
I mostly feel for anyone who is disfellowshipped because i went through it Twice. but i honestly dont see what this elder did in this instance that was so wrong. the girl was mostly hysterical and he was mostly just listening her. i kept WAITING for the part where this elder said or did something that was so wrong and then SUDDENLY the tape ends without there being even a whisper of him being cruel or insensitive as this taped recording had led me to believe ! i mean did the girl actually believe that she was going to get reinstated because she was crying or telling the elder that she was suicidal. the worst part was she VERY transparently USING her son in a ploy to attempt to gain additional sympathy which i thought was childish at best. this what i call girl was EXTREMELY manipulative and controlling of the conversation and seemed hell bent on instilling the elder with a GUILT TRIP at EVERY opportunity ! this has been a REAL eye opener for me. if u apostates are all like this which i now HIGHLY Suspect then NO WONDER most of u were disfellowshipped to begin with !
+Toby Taggart, you have NO IDEA of what you are speaking of here whatsoever!! I know this family intimately, including ALL the circumstances, the entirety of ALL that was involved in the grueling process & dealings she endured from these Elders... I know ALL the FACTS INVOLVED, (unlike your callous 'ASSUMPTIONS', your drawing of COMPLETELY WRONG conclusions, about her 'intentions' & as to the 'kind of person she is')- You made a COMPLETE ASS out of yourself by doing this sir!! You have also showed yourself to be an INCREDIBLY JUDGMENTAL individual!!! Especially in light of having NO personal knowledge of this situation, or even the slightest CLUE of what has truly transpired, prior to her finally recording one of these men!! Which was originally ONLY recorded by her so that her parent could hear the conversation, should it be a bad interaction again. So she could have proof for that parent, if she needed it..... Good thing she did record it, because it DID go bad again & she had the proof!!! Even her active JW family members in VERY GOOD standing, some of whom PERSONALLY got involved by calling, emailing her committee & more, because they were extremely upset at how she & her son were being treated!!! So knock off your self-righteous attitude... And btw, WHAT are you even doing on any of these sites? WHY are you watching EX-JW videos, when you KNOW the GB has told you not to & that you would be in trouble with your Elders if they found out??? If you were doing it because you personally needed help or are searching for answers to questions or doubts that are plaguing you, that would be one thing... But all you did was judge & slam her & EVERY OTHER person who commented on this comment thread... Maybe looking at videos from EX-JW's is not what's best for you personally.... & If that rings true for you, you should probably STOP TROLLING them!! If they aren't helpful for your personal life & all you want to do is spew judgement on people who want to be on these sites, perhaps it's time you stop TROLLING & BASHING people & just go away.... Just a thought sir.....
Listening to this brings back the pain. I remember when I was in that precarious situation of comtemplating suicide. One of the smug elders asked me, "Isn"t this what you wanted?" I am so glad I did not give them the satisfaction to stand before the podium one day and say that I committed suicide because I left Jehovah and his organization because I remember an elder making a comment during a Watchtower study about a brother that committed suicide. I did get reinstated (that was years ago) but now I am awake and know TTATT. Please Kari get help by a professional like I did and not give up. I am now married to a wonderful man, not a JW never was a JW. I regret wasting over 60 years of my life in that cult. I wish you the best!
Wow what he said about her son having to make the truth his own at his age and circumstances? This shows such a lack of love and how they don't follow their own consul about "fatherless boys". Bravo to Kari in pulling the actual "truth" out of this "gift of men". Thank you for sharing.
There is nothing worse when one is screaming to the top of one's lungs, on the outside and on the inside, for someone to hear their cries, and "NOBODY" hears or/and ignores. Not only is speaking to this guy like begging to a cold dead will of steal and no conscience, but is also like dealing with death itself. That might sound terrible, but who, when someone is so ill, treats someone in that way? She is of no use to the slave-driver while ill, and for that reason the slave-driver has declared her unworthy of the master's, shepherd's, and sheep's help. Very sad!
I know who this family is. I'm so saddened to hear all of this. Further confirmation as to why I got the hell out of this cult and never looked back. The programming goes so deep that even the natural God given compassion placed in our hearts is abandon to follow "protocol". God bless her and her son, I baby sat his cousins and remember him as a child. My wish is that she and her son would find freedom outside of the organization and have peace and experience true unconditional love.
Elder: (n) Someone who simply refuses to answer a simple question, in order to make himself appear blameless.
No love, no compassion. Jesus did everything to help people unless they didn't want his help, then he let them go about their business.
WOW! It broke my heart to hear the pain she was going through. These men are very dangerous! They have no training but they think God put them in their positions to counsel people yet they do more damage than good. It is no wonder that JW's have a high rate of suicide and depression. I know she has a long road to recovery and I hope she is doing better. A big hug to Kari.
"We can't pick you up and escort you to the Hall" no but you can check on her and her son. Kari is a very brave and strong woman despite all the adversities. Those of you who are deeply depressed: she has shown there is always hope, even when others are trying to thwart you
Yes exactly, what is to sto them from checking up on them? If they had actually cared about these 2 of their own flock they would certainly have paid them a visit. And yes they can pick her up and escort her to meetings! My dad was always doing that for people, giving them lifts to meetings, assemblies, even the bloody airport when they went on holidays. Isn't that what being a Christian is about? Selfless acts for others? WTF is this idiot talking about?!
I don't think she would ever be reinstated!!!! There is no love or compassion😰😰😰
As a Christian I would love you no matter. Even if you didn't attend my church. I'm so sorry you went through that.
It's all about procedure and rules. I was going through a whole year of feeling suicidal and talking about killing myself. I eventually gave in to smoking a few cigarettes. As soon as that happened a judicial commitee was called, right when I was at my most vulnerable and could barely talk or express my feelings. I phoned an elder to express my concern that it'd gone to a judicial so quickly and at a time when I was in so much pain and could only be dealt with by doctors. The elder said it's just 'the way it has to be done', and he didn't take into account the state I was in or anything but just focused on procedure. He also said they've got to 'protect the congregation', well I smoked briefly in private and had barely seen the congregation for a whole year. All this talking about killing myself, but then a bit of smoking was unacceptable because of course smoking is bad for you.
I'm shaking as I listen to this. I'm trying to keep inside the four letter words I would love to say to this disgusting, evil elder. To the brave sister who recorded this, you are an amazing person, and your son is brave too. Please don't give up in your fight for true happiness, love and peace and exposing this evil cult.
The truth shall set you free! I hope this former member flies like a bird and embraces her freedom and her truth. God bless her and her family. Good riddens to the chains of the WT.
Oh what a loving man! The most heartwarming part for me was "We did not call your son, can't he go to the meetings on his on?"
This is a perfect example why the Watchtower can not be saved or fixed. It is LEGALISTIC. Compare this video to Jesus words "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more" 5 seconds.! You heard it. Loyalty to the Slave not Jesus.
Wow..I thought I was atheist..now, I KNOW the Devil is real..
This is outrageous.. the comparison to an employee.. my blood is boiling
All this elder cares about is these people getting to the meetings. My hope and prayer is that this woman and her son stay away from the WT. I hope this video goes viral so others are warned. This is NOT Jehovah's organisation. Jehovah most certainly is NOT directing the elders of this congregation who are heartless ********* !
wow he admits others are emotionally sick in the congregation, this guy is a liar and is trying to wipe his hands of the responsibility that these so called shepherd are suppose to help, she handled it well. Jehovah has not provided any direction to the congregation otherwise they would have done their best to help her and her son, putting the blame back on here, go to meetings and we will help forget the lost sheep the sick and orphan boy, disgusting evil organization.
Seriously, this elder is putting the blame on her, because he didn't have the time to fulfill his position in the congregation. I too have gone through this. I was on suicide watch, at the time my children were under 10 years of age, and not once did they come to check on any of us. It is so sad to know that unless you go to every meeting, you are not worthy of their attention. You are very brave to come forward with your experience. XOX
emptythepain
The Bible is just something for them to use to talk people down.
Otherwise they wouldn't be interested at all.
A private person? Lame excuse. Yes do not trust or count on the so called truth.
*****
That is why he and the others have to be totally exposed and subjected to public ridicule.
Yes someone being raped, and saying they asked for it. The stupidity of society. Elders doing this, and going on with their day, like all is good in the world. Some times I think, what would like to be inside the mind of an elder who is like this. How warped their perception on "kingdom matters", really is. I think I would throw up.
Yes, I have personally experience with that, unfortunately
I love the attempt at minimizing the legal culpability of the elders and the JWs by saying that, at a certain point, helping a suicidal one is no longer in their plan. Eric, I know you were probably not like these elders-at least I hope you were not. But every time I watch videos like this it makes me more aware of the "power trip" that most elders are on. The elders in my judicial committee were cocky, but at that point it didn't even matter to me. But to act like he did with someone who is so "fragile" nauseates me. Great video!
After listening to this conversation, I cannot believe how close minded this elder is. As a ex jw/ ministerial servant I am angry knowing this is how people r spoken to behind closed doors. There is no empathy towards someone who is suicidal. The only thing that was consistent in conversation was "u and ur son were not at the meetings.". WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
"Let's not think of hypotheticals..." @ 2:27 yet @ 18:14 "what would you do if..."
Omg, I'm so sorry for how they treated you, Kari! That was SO wrong. You've done NOTHING wrong here. But they tried to lead you away from asking questions. That's why, they haven't been trying to help you in any form or wanting to help you back. I can see that. Remember. God is within, not in any church or any governing body or Kingdom Hall. I hope that helps. I'm sorry for your loss. You've done nothing wrong. Your son should've received all love and care, and, so should've you.
At 12:27 "the direction provided" Direction from whom? There are a slurry of scriptures that talk about forgiveness, love and mercy, yet, NONE that talk about judicial committees. So are they following Jesus or men?
This elder is practically committing manslaughter. I am so glad that she's out.
We all know despite being exposed as a fraud and cold hearted he justified his stance within 10 minutes of the end of your phone call Kari. I hope you are doing well and have maintained that incredible strength you showed towards the end of that phone call.
That elder reminded me of ours. My son was 15, He was going to meetings but starting to miss some so I ask our wonderful ( so I thought) elder who claimed to be of the heavenly group, if he would talk to him. His Dad was drunk all the time so no help there. When he came to the house he had 2 others with him. They walked in my son's room stayed long enough to say your going to meetings or we will dis-fellowship you. I think his response was something like he didn't have to or they couldn't make him go. They walked out saying nothing to me.He told me later what happened as I was not in there of course. The following Sun. they announced he was dis-fellowshipped. Surprised me. Shortly after he started going back to meetings and after a couple of months the elder that thinks he will be King in heaven came up to me and said I don't care how many meetings he comes to he will never ever be reinstated.He heard that so just quit going, I mean why go he was never going to get back in. Shortly after my other son was in a horrible car accident and lucky he came out of a coma and lived. My Mother from another state came to help when he got out of the hospital and died while at my house. All this in a few months. Not one witness called or came by period. I had another son who was in an accident and same thing not one came to see him either. His friends that was not JW's was there constantly caring about him. I quit going and since have read much about them and their organization. In fact the truth they taught me I now find out was not the truth. Everything changed since the things they said would happen didn't. I am so happy to be out of there. More so since I now realize they are a control freak cult.
This conversation was very heartbreaking because as she was stressing and pouring out her heart to him, it was obvious he was not moved at all and didn't care that she was hurting. I faded many years ago when there was no support like JWStruggle or anything else on the internet. This elder sounds just like my brother who is an elder and just as robotic. It is another long sad story and I know the ending is going to be horrific. My brother moved out of state with his 2nd wife, whom he could not stand but doesn't have the balls to do anything about. He no longer will communicate with me bc as he stated "....unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity. You haven't been active for almost 40 years" That was absolutely the stupidest thing he could have said. I responded with what's what about how he just picked up and left the state and didn't say goodbye to his children not tell them he was leaving. They were absolutely traumatized and to this day (9 years later) do not know why he did that. They were not baptized. They have never visited him nor do they have anything other than a P.O. Box for him. I know he thinks that his backing off after all these years and not communicating is hurting me but, truly I feel sorry for him because I know he is a completely miserable person. Like so many others, there is so much to this story and it is quite painful. I have absolutely no tolerance for any religion that divides families and praises those who shun their own family. My entire family is completely dysfunctional and it is all due to upbringing as a JW. It has helped me after all these years to hear and read about all the other experiences. I thought I was alone and left because it was just so rigid and unrealistic. I wanted to live a normal life and not feel I had to constantly looking over my shoulder. Both parents are deceased. My father was an elder and my mother was a JW til the end. It truly is a cult. My parents were not happy and loving people and I am so happy to be away from this complete mind control. it is dangerous and can scar people for life.
Yes, it's all about meeting attendance! The elders don't really care about people, just their loyalty to 7 self appointed hypocrites!
he was going to say there is no stumbling block however Jesus said.
Mark 9:42
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.
Wow, what a cold-hearted elder. Watchtower has no love amongst them. I've noticed it myself too when I was a JW.
Stepan Stepanov
They care about people's corporate membership.
At 18:00 Dan likens the boy, a member of the congregation, to an employee who doesn't show up for work. Did you notice that? All the burden is on the boy.
The only work these guys do is judicial, to judge and throw people out based on how they read their "heart".
Jesus left the flock of 99, to search for the one who was lost,,,
message to Kari: I salute you! You are one amazing person. My personal belief is that God can be found in most places - but one where He definitely is NOT, is the WTBTS, so I stopped looking for Him there. I'm speechless at the way the elder turned everything around, at every opportunity, to put what is his responsibility back onto you and your son - how dare he, and I sincerely hope he has trouble sleeping at night. I also pray that this conversation with you will be his first step in waking up, once he reflects on his lack of decency and love.
I have the upmost respect for you Kari and wish you and your son well. Your experience is similar to mine, but mine was a very long time ago and I've just woken up to that fact that it is still going on, and I'm appalled by what I've discovered.
Stay strong and rebuild your life, not only is this what you both deserve, but it will also serve to expose this cruel organization.
Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing.
This is so disturbing. My last, and I do mean last, sheparting call, I also poured out my heart and was told my problem was that I thought too much of myself. I was putting self first. I will never have them in my home again and I will never again step foot inside a kingdom hall.
How absolutely sick!! So you only bother with anyone who goes to the hall! Plus unless they ask for help you completely ignore them! Even when you know there are serious problems within the family and your mother is suicidal. He then says they have done their best!!! Same old drivel, come to the meetings, is the only solution!!! So unbelievable!
Judicial in Jehovah's organisation means whatever the elders want to do. Such crap! Three against one!
This elder infuriated me. Sad to say, he is just like so many other elders i knew, too busy to care.
It seems this type of elder behavior is quite prevalent. The answers I would get for the lack of return phone calls or reaching out to a needy member was " the elders have a full plate, jobs, families, and problems." I know , but the lack of compassion or interest , the condescending manner which elders speak to the flock at times( women mostly) is sickening. . A 30 second phone call can work miracles. The flock is just as busy. The Flock have jobs,. family, problems. Elders were appointed to shepherd. Period. There is no shepherding going on. Unless you are part of the club. In the click. And... there are clicks. The true God will find his sheep and He will save them. I thank God I am out of that dark mess. I had become suicidal. I did not share it. I did not need to share to know how unloving some men and women can be. I now try and remember they are human. I am so happy to be out. What a prison I was in. I'm sorry you did not get the support you needed, but I am so happy you are out. At least I hope you are. You have blessings untold coming. I promise.
Pure evil. The thing he's never Gonna feel bad about what he has said to her because he's blind and pure evil minded person. Just horrible people. And I wish that lady all the best and I have she's doing really good and of course her son too.
There are quite a few like this in the org. I never envied wives. This personality type, even if he left JWs, would some how minimize what he had done to others. Many sociopaths in the world, some religious some not. He loves the emotional tormenting. Many do.
Luke 15:4-6 comes to mind. You leave the 99 which are doing fine to go after the one that is lost. I guess this elder is not in any way a good shepherd. He could learn a thing or two if he actually read the Bible for himself.
+David Saunders I served on an elder body with the man. You hit the nail on the head, he is very Pharisaical and self righteous. I mentioned him a few times on my video series Elder Recollections.
I was driving while I listened to this, and almost had three accidents. I would love to take that fanny pack and put it just there. It really does not surprise me that an organization who throws children under the rug that needs blood transfusions would also throw disfellowshipped people down who are suicidal. Their love is only conditional. Only people coming to their meeting are worth their "time." Elder needs to be remember that Jesus still addressed Judah as " friend. " When the organization is clearly in the wrong the infamous excuse is " they are imperfect men." But when they want to tell you how to live your life they are perfect - assigned by God and given that God given authority. I'm sorry Watchtower,you can't have it both ways you're either governed by God or you're imperfect. Imperfection and God does not belong in the same sentence . The bottom line is, the elders dropped that ball and they need to admit that they failed and that the organization who is directing them has failed. And just like the Carrie said, they will stand before God one day an answer to him for their stupidity.
Holy crap. Dan is likening a sister who suffers from depression to Judas Iscariot.
He actually did that.
Now he's using faithful and discreet slave to prove the governing body.
This is exasperation itself.
These are just assholes.
Publicize these elders names and businesses.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!it's all about making meetings. He made an example about how it's like going to work. How is Church like work. People go there to get refreshed not work some more! The elders should have ask the boy to come over (with their wife's present) and just have took her out or made her dinner and not bombarded her with church stuff!, but be genuinely kind to her. And no matter how many meetings she missed, should have taken care of her and her son regardless.
Yup its all about policy and appearances just like the pharisees and scribes of the bible. Disgusting
Oh my heart. This poor woman. This man is disgusting!! Reminds me of when I reached our to an elder begging for help due to severe depression, and he told me, "Sometimes, when someone is drowning, they have to yell out for help." I just looked at him and said, "I have no voice left to yell," and I walked away.
This is disturbing on multiple levels.
What a TOOL that elder was! I always felt when selecting qualified congregation elders, they were always just scraping the bottom of a barrel and dredging up some of the worst people to be leaders of the flock.
From what I've noticed from being in the Congregation for 19 years (Soon to get out of it, when I move out of the house), is that when it comes to mental illnesses, Jehovah's witnesses don't know what to do. You're instructed to pray and Jehovah will pull you out of it but when I went through a sever depression when I was sixteen praying didn't do shit. Going to the meetings just made me feel worse. I was suicidal because I thought fuck it. I'm not going to be in paradise anyway, I can't live up to these standards. That was also about the time I finally realized I was bi. And no matter what your personal thoughts are on that, it just added to my depression, given how badly witnesses are attacking the LGBT+ community recently. I went to a therapist and that helped me far more than prayer and the bible did. Sometimes your mind gets sick and sometimes you need actual medicine and someone to talk to about your issues rather than a 2,000 year old book and praying to someone that may or may not exist.
Wow sounds just like me. Im 17 n im gay n going to the kingdom hall is just so depressing for me espessially since now everybody knows about me in my congregation. But hey thx for posting now i dont feel so alone.....
Wesley Main There are more gay ex-jw's than you think. And they're getting more and more vocal thanks to the attack the JW's are launching against Homosexuality.
she and other members of that congregation almost lost their homes...., Watchtower never "almost" lose their Kingdom Halls or Assembly Halls. Yet they expect people to 'make it rain' for future projects. Sophia is hungry...would love an ice cream cone, but the WT would rather she put that money in the box. OMG
This HEARTLESS, Demeaning, condescending, proud, arrogant, Poor excuse for a shepherd/ELDER should be removed immediately. ( but sadly wont be and stumble and destroy more lives as MANY others are similarly doing ) He "shut the door of tender compassion "on this sister and her son in severe pain and in need of understanding and comfort. Something Jesus would have NEVER done. He demands the LAW and has completely lost the SPIRIT OF THE LAW. MODERN DAY PHARISEE !
This sister IS RIGHT ON with her simple questions and wanting truthful legitimate answers and all she got was poor excuses and justifications and scriptures and reasoning that did not even apply. Listening to it was heart wrenching and broke my heart, Is there a way correspond with her and provide support and comfort ??? How could she ever respect this non human void of any feelings again ? I
I am so hard broken for this sister. I too am suicidal and bottom line is they don't want a broken person in this cult . you can't offer money I am just working on getting out and all 4 sisters and my mom and many other family are calling me apostate. It is hard. I can't understand why you cant bring a family member in? why so there are no witnesses to what they say to you.. I need help so anyone out there who has been out and can help me please help. going to a counselor today but they really dont' understand. Love you all May God bless you all
Yes ... the Elders are following the direction of the man-made organization. But that direction does NOT have any scriptural backing!! In fact the scriptural precedence is exactly the opposite.
(See Deuteronomy 17:2-7 - Notice there is no indication that the older men judged this man in private, keeping the names of the witnesses secret for the sake of confidentiality, then brought him to the people so they could stone him on the word of the older men alone.)
(See also Deuteronomy 21:18-21 - It is clear that when dealing with issues involving the death penalty under Israelite law the case was heard publicly at the city gates.)
------------------------------------------
The following is a quote from a 1981 Awake magazine:
“Speedy and Public Trial”
Guidelines for judicial procedure in the United States are found in the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution. “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial . . . to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” Did justice in Bible times employ these guidelines?
Indeed it did. Criminal trials were doubtless much speedier in Israel than they are at present in countries such as the United States, where clogged courts and elaborate procedure give rise to many delays. Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings. What about witnesses?
Witnesses in Bible times were required to testify publicly. For this reason they were warned not to be influenced in their testimony by the pressure of public opinion “so as to turn aside with the crowd in order to pervert justice.” Perjury was not punished with a jail term, but with whatever punishment the false witness had sought to bring upon the defendant-even death!-Ex. 23:2; Deut. 19:15-21.” - (Awake! 1981, 1/22, Pg. 17, Searching Out Legal Roots)
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Although, when convenient, the Watchtower organization frequently goes back to Mosaic law and law procedures for support for its policies, but it should be noted that it acts exactly contrary to the principles presented in this Awake article when it comes to their “judicial committee” arrangement.
Though it praises the influence toward "carefulness and justice" that public hearings produce, the reality is that all Jehovah’s Witness "judicial committee" hearings are, by organizational policy, held precisely in the form of "secret star-chamber hearings," with the result that the committee is, in effect, answerable only to itself.
***** so can i tell my family about this since i was 13 at the time in 1964 tat this is not a legal contract?
I can't take anymore. Six minutes more. This is False religion.
Wow, I can feel the love.
These guys are so freaking scary. Hearts of ice. Hearts of ice. If being 'at the Hall' is all there is - seriously!
Wow, love is conditional of you being at the meeting. These guys never cease to surprise me.
Isn't it interesting...
just how contradictory, that the "org" is when they say in situations like this one, and when getting baptized, that YOU ARE A FREE MORAL AGENT AND MUST MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOURSELF and make efforts on YOUR OWN to go to meetings.
In other words, nobody can force you to become baptized, YOUR decision to do that is up to YOUR OWN conscience.
When it comes to encouraging Kari's son, taking the lead in shepherding him, taking him under their wing, the responsibility is HIS to go to meetings on his own, and "to make the truth his own" even though he may not have a car, or may be feeling discouraged because his mother is DF'd..., YET, once you are baptized or reinstated, you no longer have the right to making decisions BY YOURSELF, nor FOR YOURSELF; Instead, you must rely upon the GOVERNING BODY and their literature to study God's word the bible, not any other literature, nor any other source, nor are you allowed to have doubts, ideas, and beliefs contrary to the governing body's ideology.
So the question arises... Do you, or do you NOT have a mind of your OWN to question, wonder, doubt, believe, know, and SHARE such ideas, WITHOUT the "org's" manipulation?
Do you somehow become a moron or idiot AFTER baptism or reinstatement so that you can no longer make decisions for yourself?
Realizing this, why would anyone want to be a mindless lamb in submission to an organization of men who disrespect your god given right to live in the image of God?
Jesus still called Judas a friend even when he was being arrested.
This man is an embarrassment to anybody with two brain cells and a teaspoon of compassion for their fellowman. Sad!
wonder if these elders have ever really read the bible in context of the prodigal Son, he was welcomed back immediately didn't have to sit outside the home for months on end being shunned by his family.
His fake jedi powers don't work on you anymore sweetheart. We love you very much. And let genuine truth and light be within you. Not propaganda.
As a life long atheist it only goes to prove the fact that all religions are false and o are their teachings.
byron of calgary is right..i keep saying there must be a way to sue the WBTS over shunning a df'd one....a minor cannot make a contract ie. baptism
Is there any update on how she's doing? This is so hard to listen to. I do hope she's out and happy.
he has excuses for everything....such crap..
No praying and laying on hands for the sick ones in this organized lack of loving kindness, and so bring deep reproach on the name of Jehovah God himself...chapter 34 of Ezekiel well describes what is in store for these so called shepherds.
No love no compassion showed for this lady period.One rule for everybody no exceptions for those who are sick this is shamful behavior.He does not care neighther do the GB.She is hurting and is getting no help.
listening....makes comparison of suicidal girl to Judas.....wow.
Inhumane, unkind, lacking in compassion and decency. This is the axis upon which jw .org spins.
most comments I have read, people are picking on the elder. This woman has serious issues...she is combative in her speaking with him. Just because the Elder is misguided by the teachings of JW, I think he deserves some credit for trying to reason with a person who only wants to find fault. I didn't find him unkind under the circumstances. An 18 year old boy has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The common persona amongst elders is a sly cunning phoney personality trait. They give the appearance. Of being nice little innocent 😇 lambs but lo and behold their TRUE COLORS SHOW I am 17 years old and guess what this is what woke me up my waking up was internal the programming was VERY short lived I was 7 years old when I got serious into the Jehovah's cult my parents (my father) was the only one in the cult me and my father experienced This woke me up all this so called "divine guidance" is all in the mind. Disfellowshipping is just a means of guilt tripping people to come back to them. The whole promoting of not being friends is just a method of control
Is he saying Jesus ways are not to be followed? His compassion?
Then heart is Black no emotion nada nothing❤❤ JW elders special the GB it heartbreak this. 💔 someon cry for how can you close the Door?
Matthew 24:45-47, at the 4:40 mark on this recording. Jesus said the faithful and discreet slave were going to FEED the sheep not provide direction, but food. And if they follow the "master" (Jesus) so well, then why are they forgoing love and mercy and sticking with tradition. These brothers are a prime example of what Jesus was telling about the pharisees in Matthew 15, "YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines" NOTICE this is from their NWT Bible. So I reckon when translating they condemned themselves.
Also, why do they NEVER point out was the rest of what Jesus said about the slave in 48-51?
is this the same elder dan you saw at the grocery store recently eric?
Jesus is not their mediator, these man are, scary right ?
Please, what do the letters TTATT represent????
Ahh yes - of course - a little bit more thinking on my part should have made the penny drop. Duhh. Thank you Natasha.
This was extremely difficult to listen to.
This organization is seriously in need of JESUS!!
Don't make up hypothetical situations of 'what would Jesus do?' scenarios for me to answer especially when its obvious Jesus would have acted in the opposite way as to how I treated you. In the NEXT second he gives a completely imaginary scenario as fact: 'Jesus is in heaven, he has assigned the FDS the GB and given them authority over the worldwide congregation and they obediantly follow the master'. How ironic. It seems like that is the main, maybe the only thing that is being drilled from the top.
WHY does the Judicial Committee have to always be a 3-1 ratio? 3 against 1 is not fair and not even biblical. By their OWN RULES there should be 2 or more witnesses for the person whose JC it is. If they say something happened during the JC there is only their word for it. Why should not a suicidal person have some support for their own trial? Why should the trial be secret? Its all so wrong and weird but growing up JW its all you ever know and you don't understand or have any way to quantify your experience, in addition you are also trained to be submissive and subservient to these men so you have no chance of questioning what is happening.
BTW Even if you DO go to all the meetings they won't notice it anyway, they will think its 'VERY RARELY'. Jesus said the sick ones are the ones that need a Dr, that need Medical attention. Not well people who are spiritually strong.
This man is A DICK! The way he talks to her about her son is despicable. After admitting finally that he did nothing for her son he should have apologised not projected his guilt and blame onto her and her SON!
I guess they really do put people into the garbage bin. How disgusting. I am ashamed of this elder treating someone in obvious mental and emotional distress in such a callous, unfeeling way. I bet you he DOES sleep at night. People like that have no conscience
'where have you been!?' Aren't the elders the ones who are supposed to go looking for the weak ones? Shepherding calls? If they were that 'concerned', they would have reached out to offer guidance and help regardless of age. I can't believe this guy saying about her son because of his age. And he is saying they are not worth it because others have the same situations as her and they still turn up to meetings. Jesus said a Dr doesn't go to the well ones he goes to the ill ones. I hate this man he is TYPICAL of all the elders I ever met
Have you ever seen the movie called the giver? JWs reminds me of the brainwashing town. And the giver helped the boy escape to be normal. If you have not seen the movie . see it.
Love means recited bible verses. LOL
Another heartless elder no care love and compassion for the flock that their suppose to look after.
Dogma before people. That's religion.
She should seek medical attention.
All she does is threaten the elder with suicide if they don't reinstate her.
It's not about crying.
It's about fixing her relationship with God
Get lost troll...
kari you are so much better off now
I mostly feel for anyone who is disfellowshipped because i went through it Twice. but i honestly dont see what this elder did in this instance that was so wrong. the girl was mostly hysterical and he was mostly just listening her. i kept WAITING for the part where this elder said or did something that was so wrong and then SUDDENLY the tape ends without there being even a whisper of him being cruel or insensitive as this taped recording had led me to believe ! i mean did the girl actually believe that she was going to get reinstated because she was crying or telling the elder that she was suicidal. the worst part was she VERY transparently USING her son in a ploy to attempt to gain additional sympathy which i thought was childish at best. this what i call girl was EXTREMELY manipulative and controlling of the conversation and seemed hell bent on instilling the elder with a GUILT TRIP at EVERY opportunity !
this has been a REAL eye opener for me. if u apostates are all like this which i now HIGHLY Suspect then NO WONDER most of u were disfellowshipped to begin with !
Toby Taggart, you have NO IDEA of what you are speaking of here whatsoever!! I know this family intimately, including ALL the circumstances, the entirety of ALL that was involved in the grueling process & dealings she endured from these Elders... I know ALL the FACTS INVOLVED, (unlike your callous 'ASSUMPTIONS', your drawing of COMPLETELY WRONG conclusions, about her 'intentions' & as to the 'kind of person she is')- You made a COMPLETE ASS out of yourself by doing this sir!! You have also showed yourself to be an INCREDIBLY JUDGMENTAL individual!!! Especially in light of having NO personal knowledge of this situation, or even the slightest CLUE of what has truly transpired, prior to her finally recording one of these men!! Which was originally ONLY recorded by her so that her parent could hear the conversation, should it be a bad interaction again. So she could have proof for that parent, if she needed it..... Good thing she did record it, because it DID go bad again & she had the proof!!! Even her active JW family members in VERY GOOD standing, some of whom PERSONALLY got involved by calling, emailing her committee & more, because they were extremely upset at how she & her son were being treated!!! So knock off your self-righteous attitude... And btw, WHAT are you even doing on any of these sites? WHY are you watching EX-JW videos, when you KNOW the GB has told you not to & that you would be in trouble with your Elders if they found out??? If you were doing it because you personally needed help or are searching for answers to questions or doubts that are plaguing you, that would be one thing... But all you did was judge & slam her & EVERY OTHER person who commented on this comment thread... Maybe looking at videos from EX-JW's is not what's best for you personally.... & If that rings true for you, you should probably STOP TROLLING them!! If they aren't helpful for your personal life & all you want to do is spew judgement on people who want to be on these sites, perhaps it's time you stop TROLLING & BASHING people & just go away.... Just a thought sir.....
jesus would let her mother sit in on it...if it meant her coming back..then jesus certainly would have let her...god judges anyway, not 3 men...
We can't pick you up and escort you to the hall?
No humanity at all. Not a Christian at all. This cat shows what a JW friend told me
once. Being an elder gives you a licence to be an ass hole.
LFOD !
Evil.
Can someone please deprograme this robot elder?
There seems to be a lot of hate and speaking in absolutes in this comment section. Where is the constructive comments and criticism that used to be here? Characterizing the majority of men are elders as rapist or closet rapist doesn't seem to be helpful or particularly related to this woman experience. Thoughtful and realistic critiquing with evidence of how messed up and how many mistakes they have historically made is what usually gets people to think and reconsider their life choices. But blanket bashing especially without proof just makes us look like we are angry people pissed off that we are on the outside. I know most of us are not, but someone passing by and reading the comments below confirms everything that they incorrectly spew about us from the stage.
Spell check on phone did this...JUDAS...NOT Judah.
Kari I love you in gage
maybe hes part of the 144,000 lol.
I mostly feel for anyone who is disfellowshipped because i went through it Twice. but i honestly dont see what this elder did in this instance that was so wrong. the girl was mostly hysterical and he was mostly just listening her. i kept WAITING for the part where this elder said or did something that was so wrong and then SUDDENLY the tape ends without there being even a whisper of him being cruel or insensitive as this taped recording had led me to believe ! i mean did the girl actually believe that she was going to get reinstated because she was crying or telling the elder that she was suicidal. the worst part was she VERY transparently USING her son in a ploy to attempt to gain additional sympathy which i thought was childish at best. this what i call girl was EXTREMELY manipulative and controlling of the conversation and seemed hell bent on instilling the elder with a GUILT TRIP at EVERY opportunity !
this has been a REAL eye opener for me. if u apostates are all like this which i now HIGHLY Suspect then NO WONDER most of u were disfellowshipped to begin with !
+Toby Taggart, you have NO IDEA of what you are speaking of here whatsoever!! I know this family intimately, including ALL the circumstances, the entirety of ALL that was involved in the grueling process & dealings she endured from these Elders... I know ALL the FACTS INVOLVED, (unlike your callous 'ASSUMPTIONS', your drawing of COMPLETELY WRONG conclusions, about her 'intentions' & as to the 'kind of person she is')- You made a COMPLETE ASS out of yourself by doing this sir!! You have also showed yourself to be an INCREDIBLY JUDGMENTAL individual!!! Especially in light of having NO personal knowledge of this situation, or even the slightest CLUE of what has truly transpired, prior to her finally recording one of these men!! Which was originally ONLY recorded by her so that her parent could hear the conversation, should it be a bad interaction again. So she could have proof for that parent, if she needed it..... Good thing she did record it, because it DID go bad again & she had the proof!!! Even her active JW family members in VERY GOOD standing, some of whom PERSONALLY got involved by calling, emailing her committee & more, because they were extremely upset at how she & her son were being treated!!! So knock off your self-righteous attitude... And btw, WHAT are you even doing on any of these sites? WHY are you watching EX-JW videos, when you KNOW the GB has told you not to & that you would be in trouble with your Elders if they found out??? If you were doing it because you personally needed help or are searching for answers to questions or doubts that are plaguing you, that would be one thing... But all you did was judge & slam her & EVERY OTHER person who commented on this comment thread... Maybe looking at videos from EX-JW's is not what's best for you personally.... & If that rings true for you, you should probably STOP TROLLING them!! If they aren't helpful for your personal life & all you want to do is spew judgement on people who want to be on these sites, perhaps it's time you stop TROLLING & BASHING people & just go away.... Just a thought sir.....
TobyTaggert hello Brother Dan. Have you gotten the stick out your ass yet?