I think you are right on most of your points and I mostly agree, although I think you missed some things (especially my point #1). Watched a review some time ago (don't remember who did it) that was talking about the "fake" duality between bookshelves and tower speaker: 1) You can also have a sub with tower speaker if you like. That may need a bit harder to place correctly, but it is doable. That way you can extend the lower bass that your not-full-range tower speaker might not have, while also having the spatial caracteristic of multiple drivers. If you mentionned it in your review, sorry if I missed it ! Did you experiment towers+sub ? If you have any thoughts I am curious ! 2) If you want more sound signature, and it is what I actually do, you can get tower speakers on A and bookshelves on B, why would you have to chose only bookshelves ? Some songs, I prefer them on my tower speaker, others when I like more clarity in the voice (piano/vocal only for example), I prefer my bookshelves. That said, you need to have the space and make an argument to have 2 permanent setup (and maybe even 2 amp).
Really great set of reasons to go for bookshelf speakers, Randy. Must sell my towers immediately. Just kidding, tried loads of bookshelf speakers and I’m never selling my towers unless it’s for better towers. 😄
Mark... I have KEF 104/ 2 Towers in My LR since 1987, when I acquired them. No Equalizers, no SWs... They sound great to this day. I also have 4 pairs of Bookshelf speakers in my Finished basement "studio" (Kinda), created during 2020 Chinese Virus Hibernation, to play Music for enjoyment during work - at- home AND to play my Drums ( a rejuvenated interest into playing Drums after a 50 Year Hiatus). Now I'm retired (May 2021), and have a setup which incorporates 2 Receiver / Amps connected to as follows: IOTA PA3 & SA3 & an Emotiva A300 connected to 2 Pairs of Elacs (Reference and Debuts, both 6.2) in the front part of the room & a Denon DRA-800H Receiver connected to 1 pair of KEF Q350 & a pair of Fluance Signature Series HiFi Bookshelf speakers in the rear - that's where the Drum kit is located. When played in Unison - both the systems - the sound is like a concert hall . This setup is totally Anti-Audiophile , playing different speakers simultaneously. I am unable to "test" this against the KEFs in the LR , bc I'm not Hauling the KEFs to the basement for a comparison. But I can say, that sitting back in the LR, playing My Music (CD or Vinyl) on those KEF 104s is still a great delight. Maybe, If I am able to move those suckers, I will do the Sound Test or maybe move the basement speakers upstairs ???
@@Chiroman527 , that sounds like a lot of fun! My study system has been stripped back to Sansui SR222 MkII turntable, Zen Phono on the analogue side with ZenDAC Signature for digital via Tidal. Both feed a just completed upgraded NAD 314 and Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf(!) speakers. Sounds great but not s patch on my LR system with 150wpc Musical Fidelity amp and MA GR20 towers. Oh, there’s also a pair of Sundaras fed by the Zen CAN Signature. Enjoy it any way you like I say!
@@Chiroman527 On my 3rd pair of Kef's right now. Scored a used pair of 201/2 bookshelves. Amazing speakers even compared to whats out there to this day.
I shopped for stand mounts this year. Found the tower version reduced, worked out cheaper then the standmounts plus stands. It seemed like an easy choice!
If you have the space, towers make absolute sense. Why would I put bookshelf speakers in a 25 x 50' room? And there are plenty of great tower speakers that hit to 25hz. Cheap isn't always better. Its all about your wallet, room size, equipment, etc.
@Douglas Blake Randy wanted to make a point where none was needed. Anyone can toss an inexpensive sub into their systems if the dimensions of the room warrant it. And quality bookshelf speakers like the KEF LS50 Metas start at $1500.00. Or DyneAudio has a set that start at $6000.00. Some cheap speakers are impressive - nut many. You always get in quality and performance what you're wallet ( or wife ) allows.
@@stopthefomo That again is dependent on your room dimensions. Its very simple. Would I placed tower speakers in a 10 x 10' room? Of course not. But my listening area is 25 x 25' - very few bookshelf speakers could handle the acoustics efficiently and I would need an 9.2 configuration at minimum to make up the difference that a bi-polar tower with a built in 12" 200 watt woofer can do ( DT B2002 ) .
What about value? What are the best $3000 Tower speakers. For $3,000 what's the best bookshelf speakers + stands + subwoofer + subwoofer cable if you think cable makes a difference.
@@kyron42 Value in my opinion is completely subjective. What can your wallet afford? Have less expansive speakers impressed you with their sound quality and appearance more than an expensive set you were considering? Its all on you sir.
Agree wholeheartedly with Randy here. I run bookshelves with subs & couldn’t agree more on the flexibility of fine tuning the bass to match programme material or room acoustics. Get a good sub to complement the main spks & dialing in the subs will be alot easier. I feel that a pair of bookshelves with sub or subs can rival floorstanders in terms of scale & bass. The bookshelves nowadays sound very large & enveloping & adding a sub or subs makes for almost full range sound.
I have been running M&K satellites and dual subs for a few years now. Oh also using a crossover to cut the bass out of the satellites at 80-100hz. You can setup the stand mounts in just the right place then do the subs so they all work together. Lovely! This idea was popularized in the 70s by M&K. It works extremely well.
You can easily add subwoofers to tower speakers for even better frequency blend and great bass. Once you add stands to bookshelf speakers they take us just as much space as tower speakers. Just like with bookshelf speakers you can subs for even better bass. Unless the room is small I feel like the advantage lies with tower speakers, but I respect your opinion.
@@wojtek-33 You're paying more for towers, but flexibility is debatable. Towers can fill a larger room with more sound and at least give you the option to use them without subs later if you choose to do so and retain more bass extension. One could argue towers may be able to blend with subs better than book shelves, once again due to greater bass extension. The only flexibility book shelves give you come from their size, but since you usually have to put them on speaker stands they use up about the same amount of space in the room as towers anyway. It's true that book shelves can be more easily shipped when reselling them, however. I feel like the larger your room and budget the more attractive tower speakers will become. If you're buying high-end speakers and you like to get new ones every couple of years and you don't live in a large metro area where reselling is possible you may want to consider bookshelf speakers based on resellability alone.
In my mind, if you have to add a subwoofer to a pair of stereo tower speakers, then you probably shouldn’t be buying those tower speakers, because in that specific instance, the flexibility of being able to use subwoofers with the towers is really going cost you more, and what space are you really saving in a large room against floorstanders?
As a 53 year old man who spent countless hours in "sound rooms" during his teen years listening to speakers without knowing what they cost until AFTER the demo I find your channel very refreshing! This video makes a lot of honest points but this can also be reverse engineered as I did. A few years ago I picked up a pair of Klipsch RF7 ii's for under $400 locally! Having cash on hand, a large enough vehicle and knowing such large items are difficult to sell I was able to get the for an absolute steal. I've had both bookshelf and towers throughout my life and I don't think bookshelves with subs quite give the same tight sound from towers but I'm always up for a listen to anything. Another small thing I wanted to mention, I too have Amazon HD music service and as much as I love it I was finding some older recordings on there, mostly country music sounded like trash. I thought for a moment perhaps my recollection was better than actuality so I took the time to dig out a bunch of my CD's and do an a/b test with amazon's files and as I remembered the CD's were MUCH better. Apparently some more obscure stuff must have been sourced off of really poor material because it was serving me a lossless flac file at a high resolution but clearly the CD was way better. For newer/popular music the Amazon service is great, no difference and perhaps better than the CD if you have superhuman hearing. I think a lot of people especially those audiophile types want to claim they have hearing better than they actually do which is why I never want to know what I'm listening to prior to the demo. It's sad not many sound rooms exist anymore, buying any speaker without listening seems ridiculous.
@@ChrisTheKid83 Yeah, it was a lucky find, I was watching facebook marketplace for over a year. I also managed months later to get the flagship center channel to match, another very good deal because I thought it was a used one I was bidding on (language barrier) but it turned out to be totally new in box! The speakers are natural beech or something and the center is black but can't complain. I also got my power amps (QSC SRA 3622's) from a guy down in AL that I trusted would send them, he did in an off Ebay deal. Probably not a wise thing but a very good deal for me and he was happy needing money for college and he had stopped using them to DJ. Sometimes people pass on, get divorced... many reasons that expensive gear is sold. Best piece of advice, call them on the phone don't just rely on messenger and no B.S., be ready to meet them and have the cash in hand once you know you're getting what was listed. I had one seller i bought a subwoofer from later call me and offer me his preamp very cheap because everyone else that had came to his house did thing like say "oh, I only have $$ with me" once they had already agreed on a price... not cool.
And these ridiculous Klipsch RF7 II speakers you need an amplifier. Why don't you just buy some really good two-way active studio speakers, and a active subwoofer?
@@rabarebra In short I like how they sound? I already had 5 large amps before I purchased the RF7's, in fact my low end isn't active, I use passive 15" cabinets for bass. Believe it or not large speakers don't always require a big amp, oftentimes as in the case of companies like Klipsch and Cerwin Vega the speakers are extremely efficient and can be driven to loud listening levels with a moderate sized amplifier. i rarely use more than a fraction of the power I have, turning the volume way up is deafening loud and I hope to still have some hearing left into my senior years. Prior to the RF7's I had two JBL studio monitors on stands, they sounded quite good but I prefer the Klipsch, to me it's a much wider soundstage and brighter sound. Some of us love that sound, others hate it and say it's grating.
Over 21 years I've moved backwards; from floor standers to bookshelfs(?) to full range drivers. Full range is a TRUE point source and you can add a sub or two if you're that gangsta-rap-boom-chick-a-wow-wow guy. Couldn't be happier with my setup that plays all music exceedingly well and best of all it was very affordable. Cheers.
If Fostex ever bothered to make a tower like Definity Audio has with subs in the bottom but using some of their more exotic full-range driver, I would have to put a lock on my wallet. They make some fantastic full-range speakers. The only problem you encounter with single-driver full-range solutions is beaming. This is why KEF and ELAC and a handful of raw driver manufacturers have taken the coincidental coaxial approach to reduce this. You still get your point-source with significantly less beaming, but at the cost of coherency, since you've decoupled the tweeter from the woofer and you'll inevitably have differences in attack speed, decay, dispersion, etc. It also depends a lot on the listening volume and the size of your speakers. if you're running 8" or larger full-range speakers from, like, 4' or less away, then you may not experience enough beaming to warrant consideration of a separate tweeter if your full-range driver is competent enough in those frequencies.
My name is Chris. I figured out this in the 90's. I got suckered into buying the raved about floor standing dynamic speakers. I Never could make them work, despite changing Amps,preamps, multiple room changes,etc....(Alon VI's, Legacy Signature lll's,the list goes on.You are Dead Right!!! I designed/Built a pair of 6.5" two way bookshelf speakers that still blow me away! I have a pair of large passive mirror imaged isobaric subs that have dual Dynaudio 30w54 woofers in each cabinet, with Heathkit sub crossover , with two bridged Crown amps just for the subs.but the imaging,3d and tonal accuracy is unmatched by floor standing speakers! (Except maybe Quad ESL 57's, Klipsch horns,and the like.I have met too many people that agree with us!
They both have their place. I do agree that you can dial in things easier with a sub and bookcases. The older I have gotten the more I realize you are looking for the punch more than the pound of the bass. The difference is hearing the drum or hearing them hit the drum and hearing it move.
I've always prefer towers, but over the last year gravitating towards bookshelves. Do feel like dealing with the bulkiness of floor standers anymore. Plus, bookshelves are easier to deal with.
I like both. I have 5 systems with bookshelf speakers and one with large Klipsch towers with a large sub. Sometimes you feel like listening to different speakers. That's why I own 27 speakers.
Damn, and I thought 3 full systems with quadrophonic bookshelves and one tower system with 3 pairs of KEF's and 2 subs was rather extravagant. Nice work Mike :)
Randy, I went from Kef LS50 to dynaudio c1 platinums and thought they were incredible. I moved on to a 2 way magico s1mk2 and thought that was the end for me with a pair of subs. Well the subs have stayed but the speakers were replaced with a 3 way tower pair of Rockport Atria II. They blow away everything else I have had up to this point. I feel like you benefit from subs with almost every speaker.
@@steelic1 Yes I went off the deep end. I have blown through 4 speakers in about 4 years along with 5 dacs and 4 amps to get here. I am lucky to have a dealer that has become a friend so I am able to get some great deals.
I have to agree on that one. I just ordered the klipsch RP 600 and the RP 8000 F and compared them right next to each other. The RP 600 bookshelf speakers just sounded way better combined with a subwoofer than the RP 8000 F tower speakers.
I had a pair of Klipsch R26FA reference towers with the built in atmos modules. I only used the built in atmos modules for about three weeks before going with dedicated height speakers. I used the towers for about a year, and they were decent, but I recently upgraded them to the RP600M’s, and with dual subs they easily compete with most towers.
For my listening preferences, I prefer towers. I spent much of 2021 experimenting with bookshelves plus sub. This included the Elac UB5, and Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2EX. Those bookshelf speakers on stands look so cool. I want to like them! However, I listen to a lot of large scale orchestral recordings. Even with a sub, the bookshelves leave a lot to be desired in bringing out the presence and depth of a full orchestra, especially in upper bass and lower mids. I have settled on some vintage Kef 104/2's for my orchestral stuff. They have 2- 8" woofers, 2- 4" midrange drivers, soft dome tweeter, plus my Rel sub. They are glorious. For all other genres I have really enjoyed the bookshelf plus sub combo. Randy, you make some good points as to why bookshelves would be preferable for a lot of folks.
That's what I noticed recently, too, after digging out my old speakers from the early 90's and placing them in the basement. Each has a 12" woofer. The sound just feels bigger with orchestral music. Though they go deep (32 Hz), they lack some punch, which explains why I got a sub a few years later, but they completely enjoyable with orchestral recordings. I love my bookshelfs plus sub, but there's something special about the big speakers.
I agree, larger speakers certainly have more impact. They make you feel sound more even in the mid area. And they can sound more full even if you are listening in low volume
You make some valid points, and there's some well explained logic in this video. There are obviously pros and cons with both floor standing and bookshelf speakers, and each room is a huge variable that should be considered. Also, the potential cost of good stands for a bookshelf speaker is not insignificant, but they aren't a requirement in every situation, and should still allow a buyer to stay within the "less expensive" goal if they shop wisely. Larger speakers with more bass output and extension tend to be more prone to exciting room resonances in some rooms, whereas a smaller speaker is less likely to do so, due to the simple aspect of having less of the frequency output that tends cause those resonance issues. As the video points out, it's a bit tougher to address bass issues with tower speakers than it is for bookshelf speakers with a sub, because there's just more flexibility for addressing the room needs for bass with the sub and smaller speakers via placement, more specific volume control, crossover frequency selection, phase, etc. In your example of the Klipsch towers and Klipsch bookshelf speakers, the two speakers share several intentional design concepts (family traits) like similar cabinet construction/treatment, same/similar drivers, and likely some similarities in crossover parts and configuration, wiring, etc, which should mean there a lot of similarities in sound quality, clarity, and sonic signature, with the exception that the smaller speakers will likely have less bass output and extension (which is where the subwoofer comes into play). So given that there's essentially no "next level" upgrade benefits from spending more on the bigger speakers (in this example), there's an opportunity to spend some of the money saved on improvements to the rest of the system, and end up with some upgrade benefits after all. You could also look to an upgrade in overall speaker quality by going with a higher quality bookshelf speaker and sub over a lesser tower system. It all boils down to what you like the sound of, but I think this video suggests some great ways to help our audio budget go farther.
Dude, saying bookshelves are "wayyyyy better" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Bookshelves on a stand usually take up the same space as towers. You can adjust the bass on the amp if it's too much.
Very much a stretch. Lol. I use these absurd titles so people will watch what this idiot has to say. Of course there’re not Way better. I’m actually thinking of doing a why tower speakers are Way better than bookshelf speakers
@@cheapaudioman Several tower speakers i've heard have more clarity than the bookshelf counterpart of the same series. They deal with floor bounce issues, etc better, have the same footprint and they integrate easier with subwoofers.
@@cheapaudioman I appreciate your sense of humour. Bookshelf speakers obviously aren't way better than towers, but a good pair of bookshelf speakers can sound better than a crappy pair of tower speakers and they indeed don't need the same amount of place. One important point for your future "why tower speakers are way better" feature: you can easily move them away from the wall. Sure, you can move bookshelf speakers away from the wall, but bookshelves tend to be at the wall and mounting these speakers on a special stander basically turns them in (probably inferior) tower speakers.
@@DenisHavlikVienna It's depending on your application. If you have room for towers and a sub then sure you'd choose a good set of towers. But most people don't have money or space for a full 12ch system in their bedroom or office. While you may want bass in your face there's not much bass if you're listening to opera, see the difference actually that should be hear, Lol.
Wow. Submarine guys are so special. Thumbs up as always Randy. Excellent arguments. Can't wait for the 5 reasons towers are better than bookies. Efficiency, impact (mid range/bass slam), output, realism, frequency range, no stands/dual subs required, etc.
With the wife and daughter both working from home these days, I have to watch the noise levels during work hours. But my Edifier 1280DB's are just perfect, great sound, no sub needed and fit on my desk- no need for anything bigger.
There's definitely something to be said for portability/ease of moving around. I'll always be a floorstander guy because of the larger drivers that some of the floorstanders use. It's tough to beat displacement.
Here are my reasons: #1) ability to separate bass speakers from the mid and tweeter, this allows for bass speaker placement to attain flat response at the listener position, this procedure is best pursued with some type of measurement equipment (REW on a laptop, two channel mic preamp and flat measurement microphone, but I use a 31 band RTA), #2) independent placement of the mid and tweeter from those now correctly placed bass speakers to attain proper soundstage imaging, very important part of the listening experience (both of these are best attained with a sufficiently large room of near ideal dimensions and symmetrical (right-left) spacing of the room forward of the listening position), #3) ability to utilize large bass speakers (10" or 12") compared to a tower speaker, #4) less reflective surface area as the satellite (bookshelf) speakers will sit on stands with their vertical support boards parallel to the side walls, #5) ability to independently set the proper height of the satellite speakers so that the center of the tweeter is at ear height when sitting in the listening chair.
With AVR receivers you can set the crossover not only in the preout going to the sub, but they have a crossover for each speaker as well. So you can adjust your tower speakers to not even get a signal starting at any frequency you want.
Randy! Another great video! Funny, funny intro too. A lot of excellent and true points that no one (till now!) talks about. Another powerful reason that bookshelves are better, is that it's easier to get spousal approval, partly because of size, and partly cause they're cheaper. I've had huge speakers, and I just don't want to devote that much floor space to them anymore. I love the flexible placement options one has with bookshelves. And last, speakers have improved so much in the last three decades, that for low to medium volume levels, a floorstander just isn't needed to achieve excellent quality sound. If I can't get the job done with a great 6 1/2" woofer and 1" dome tweeter, there's a problem with the brand, model, or manufacturer.
That intro was hilarious! I just scrolled through 20 comments and nobody mentioned that in their first 40 words. Buffalo Bill's bed and breakfast?! Super wild, I almost don't believe that's a real B&B.
I was always a floor-stander guy (Klipsch RF-3, B&W CM10s, Spendor A3, Jensen LS-5b etc.) until I recently bought a set of Buchardt A500 active stand mount speakers. Fantastic imaging, no interconnecting cables, adaptable sound signature (via programable DSP) and DEEP bass. They are also much easier to reposition than my old floor standing speakers. Personally I'm sold. I also have a pair of B&W CM5 stand mount speakers, and while they are good, they lack the bass heft that I wanted. In the end get what makes you happy!
Towers all day. I'm a never-bookshelfer (I've got 2 sets of bookshelves, they bothl got replaced with towers: rp600m, ub5). Even small towers don't have the punch I want and I'm not a basshead or one who listens crazy loud but I want big sound. I prefer dual 8", nothing smaller that I've heard works on that really hard bass music.
sorry, but an RP or UB5 isnt realy the state of the Art bookshelf presentation... Genelec 8351, Neumann KH310 or KH120, Unity The Rock,Sky Audio Verdade - this are High End Bookshelfs. All that low priced consumer stuff a la Klipsch, Dali, Magnat is (sorry) mostly Crap
@@vtkz thanks for sharing your expertise. One day maybe I'll be more equipped to move into that echelon, as of now, I'm comparing my rp towers to bookshelves. Towers, for me, are the clear winner by leaps and bounds. Honestly, I like the spatial audio sapphires x5s.
@@kohnfutner9637 When youve fun everything is perfect. I heard many passive Towers and i dont like them (also expensive stuff from brands like Magico, Dali or Wilon Benesch wasnt 100% my taste). But i‘m also a little bit more on the ,,exotic,, side of hifi since years. I choosen Studio Gear because i dont like most of the typicall ,,consumer?!,, Hifi Loudspeaker i heard so far. I had also different Klipsch’s many years - Bookshelfs and also the rf7 - Never want to go back to this type of products again. Maybe try active ones out, order some good monitors and make a comparison. Never heard open Baffles. The main problem is see with them is the room acoustic because the room is the cabinet and when you dont treat it correctly… i see more problems than solutions there (but thats just guessing)
@@vtkz I made my own hybrid speakers 2 8" BC acoustics woofers in a box sealed two planar magnetic midranges open baffle and four planar magnetic tweeters open baffle The baffle is 1 1/2 inch cherry live edge The sound is just incredible I never heard open baffle speakers until I built mine Probably never go back to normal ones. My trade off was my low bass The two BC acoustics put together are 97db sensitive I tried to port them to get better bass but the planars are just too fast without the vacuum inside the box the woofers couldn't keep up so I had to seal them Anyway enjoy doing what you do it's all about the enjoyment for us all
What I Love about bookshelf speakers, is that I can move them anywhere. If I want to show some family members some speakers they might like, I can just grab the Loxjie A30 and the speakers. Three easy things to move around anywhere I please.
Definitely better if you believe in bass management below 80Hz because smooth bass response requires decoupling the bass from the speakers (using subs) which relegates the towers to act as large bookshelves
@@edwardbalboa5528 bass radiates everywhere but you want to be able to control that or the bass of the room becomes uneven at the main listening position. When you use bass management it basically relegated the towers to a bookshelf as the cabinet bass use is then defunct....but the bass would be better managed.
I used to get people into home theater and help them choose and install their systems a lot (but kind of ran out of people after a while), and I virtually always recommended bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer (or two). Budgets were usually tight, and even when they weren't so tight, I'd always try to get people to step up to a better speaker if their budget allowed, so tower speakers rarely ever entered the equation, as they cost a lot more money for little if any gain. The process of integrating the subwoofer always made me grateful that I could move it independently of the directional speakers, and I always ended up with better results than relying on tower speakers for bass. Based on experience, I was preaching the message "Use subs and crossovers, even if you already had tower speakers as a starting point" online for many years before it became standard practice, and believe me, there was some major resistance early on, when most people still greatly preferring tower speakers and wanted to run them full range, even for home theater. With a properly integrated sub taking over most bass duties, it soon became obvious to me that bookshelf speakers were the way to go, especially for home theater, but also for two-channel music because of superior bass extension (with the right sub!) and integration (if set up properly). I had always wanted towers myself, many years ago, but no longer saw the point of them for the vast majority of installations once I really got into setting up home theater and music playback systems for others with a variety of equipment. There are exceptions, but those are generally for people who aren't real constrained by budget. If you have a huge budget and want 3-way towers with RAAL ribbon tweeters and purpose-designed, ultra-low-mass mid-range drivers for exquisite detail because there are separate woofers for the mid-bass and bass, and you'll also have a subwoofer or two, then go for the towers. Others who can't or simply aren't willing to afford anywhere near that level of expenditure are generally better off with bookshelf speakers and a sub. That's based on experience, not just theory, although the two sure aren't far off in this case.
You can't go for higher tier shelf speakers. Since you need at least 4 higher tier speakers to replace 2 towers and 2 shelves. And you will need higher tier amplifier(s), to drive their potential. This is going to be far more expensive than just getting towers, and people who ask for acoustics advice will most likely not even hear the difference. Home theater is where floorstanders shine. Unlike some people's reasoning.
You convinced me. I came from the older mentality that whoever had the largest speakers and speaker enclosures wins. I like my Klipsch RP600Ms. They work well with my tube amp. Maybe I'll add one or perhaps two subwoofers someday.
Well, most of the time I use bookshelf speakers because I ALWAYS use a sub. But in an application where you want to really crank it, floorstanders will typically play louder and still stay clear. And I do like 3-way designs for pure music.
im no audiophile and dont claim to be lol. im sure they all will laugh at me at what i say next but i really dont care. i recently got a screaming deal on a onkyo 7ch reciever and a full 5pc set of episode 500 series surround sound speakers. 4 bookshelfs and a center. i bought the whole thing for 70 bucks used locally. i actually really like how loud and clear they sound. i honestly couldnt be happier to be quite honest. i just ordered a klipsch 12" powered sub. currently waiting for it to arrive. i never heard of episode but i can say im quite impressed w the quality and sound of their speakers for sure. i cant wait to get my sub though thats for sure. i guess im saying you dont need to spend a million bucks on your stereo for it to sound good thats for sure. maybe i just got a killer deal i dont really know lol. but i can say best 70 bucks ive spent in a long time for sure. i was actually looking into getting towers myself tbh. maybe ill just stick w what i got who knows. i will say if you ever run into a deal on some episode speakers buy them you wont be disappointed. they sound phenomenal
You need to buy stands for bookshelfs, and most likely they wont be as stable as floorstanding. Also, the efficiemcy is better with bigger one, as well as frequemcy range.
Yep. This is the method being used to help grandson get into this hobby. Start with lower cost alternatives, improve as the budget allows. BTW have you noticed the large number of high-quality, terrific sounding bookshelf/desktop/monitors are available? Great topic. and it can go with any DAC you choose.
Or you can do like my friend did with IEMs and jump pretty rapidly to a set right on the edge of the azimuth of return on investment, thus making it incredibly difficult to buy upgrades for him.
I don’t even know if you went over the biggest issues with tower speakers. 1) Imaging. They tend to have more drivers, spread over more space. This means they’re less inclined to function as more compact point source radiators, a theoretically ideal speaker. Bookshelf speakers get much closer to this ideal. Having separate midrange and treble drivers further complicates imaging. The larger fronts of the floor standers also create issues with reflection. 2) Crossover. Floor standers tend to be 3-way designs. Many are even 4-way if you count the ports or passive radiator. Designing and building effective crossovers is an expensive art and can dramatically increase the price of the speaker, as can the design of the ports, radiators and whatnot. You can buy your way around these issues, but it won’t come cheap. 3) Cone breakup. The larger woofers typically found in floor standers are hugely vulnerable to cone breakup, where the driver doesn’t behave in a linear fashion. You also have issues where the midrange shifts around physically in space due to the large driver’s excursion. It’s less expensive to avoid these issues with the smaller bass/midrange drivers typically found in bookshelf speakers. 4) Cabinet resonances. In my book this is the worst issue with floor standing speakers. Their large sides - or even fronts and backs, as with old school traditional floor standers like the ones from 80s with their broad faces and shallow sides - are terribly susceptible to resonances. You can pay your way around it, but it’ll cost you a pretty penny for a tower with the engineering to avoid cabinet resonances, something even cheap bookshelf do just by their nature. Honestly, I can hear resonances from virtually all floor standers, even ones that cost a thousand more than their closet bookshelf relative. And they drive me NUTS. Once you hear cabinet resonances you can never un-hear them.
Great points, and they attest to the versatility of bookshelves. I think all of these advantages stand, as long as we are talking about a smallish / medium size room, and we are comparing to towers also in the 80s dB/Wm efficiency. However, when the the room allows, large size speakers have advantages that bookshelves cannot provide: efficiency, dynamic range, and scale. These all require "lungs" (large free air volume), and adding subs does not help (compact sub adds dynamically compressed bass...) You mentioned one point towards the end that resonates most with me: upgrading the system the small bookshelf speakers can step up big time, so there's no reason to be sad in case you have a small room and no space for large speakers. I might be the minority in my view that I prefer bookshelves unaccompanied (no subs), as adding a sub so far has soured the taste for me, and destroyed the beauty of precision and focus that the bookshelves can achieve unhindered by subs in a very high level system. Although I would add that bookshelves + a pair of subs takes up more floorspace than a pair of floorstanders when set up optimally... Cheers, Janos
Finally a vote for no sub. I tried subs with bookies on tube and solid state amps. Could not get a realistic music sound with subs. Gave them away. Now run Elac dbr62's with rockville tube amp. Can hear down to 35 htz. Lower than cheap subs. After break in for one year, the elacs sound even better. Stands- $45 wood plant stands with foam pad cut to fit under speakers. Awesome sound. Must hear to believe. Great for movies. The amp makes a big difference to my ear.
Recently got a pair of Atlantic Technology AT-1 towers used for $350. I’m loving them and also just upgraded from a Sony AVR STR-DN1020 to a Rotel rsp1068 and Rotel 1075 and I got both for a total of $240. Also picked up a Amazon link $80, Cambridge 551p-s phono preamp $75, and Pro-Ject 1xpression $500, Polk psw650 for $150. And I haven’t even got to listen to all of it hooked up yet, but I’m excited!
Tower vs two way stand mount has as much to do with room size you're working with and both have their pro and cons. I do agree that towers are not automatically better, just different. I have gone back and forth over the decades, currently doing the two way + sub combo currently. For fullest sound, SPL, and "feeling" the music, floor standers + a sub! :)
Very true. I say to always incorporate a sub, allow for specialization. A tower is not going to hit low freqs with the spl's a sub can give. Also a sub can be moved around to get the best bass for your listening position. And I have towers, and use 2ea. Subs. I like the aesthetic of a tower and they have their own stand built in. 😉
It's actually amazing that you had this video today. Great timing. For financial reasons, I'm selling a very large pair of Legacy Focus Towers. I just made a homemade pair of bookshelf speakers that use a full-range driver. I am absolutely blown away at how great the mid-range clarity and general instrument clarity is on those 1.2 cubic foot boxes. I had a 10 in KRK studio sub in a closet in my basement. I set it up in a corner in my relatively small 14 by 18 foot living room, this cheap setup really sounds great.
I totally agree. I've been playing with mini-monitors and bookshelf speakers for a very long time, and about 20+ years ago decided to standardize on 5" woofers for all my speaker needs, and add a subwoofer to the mix. I've been 100% satisfied with that arrangement, and have even downsized to 4" woofers now! The advantages far, far, far outweigh the negatives.
Great set of arguments for bookshelves. Agree with all of them and yet still found myself buying a pair of stage a170s over their bookshelf a130s. This was an odd case of a sale making the bookshelf plus stands costing the same as towers and my room is large enough that I will appreciate the larger speakers.
yeah. the JBL stage series is such a crazy value that my "cheaper" argument doesn't really apply with those. I want to hear the towers in the stage series.
@@cheapaudioman the stage a170 are $360 a pair with free shipping right now on crutchfield. While the reviews on the towers are minimal stereophile did a nice one on the stage a170. No good vid review though…..nudge nudge.
I've had a few pairs of tower speakers, I always felt they were at the wrong height for where my listening position was, I even built stands for the towers, to bring them up to ear level, defeating the point of buying towers, the lesson learned was buy book shelves and custom build stands to bring them to the perfect listening position, for me that's the tweeters at ear level,
As I mentioned in a previous video, I am a blind person so tower speakers my dad used to have a pair of them and what was really annoying. Was he had them by the door going into my living room so I would always run into them and knock them over. I’ve noticed that you just get so much more out of bookshelf speakers, which is why I never invested in tower speakers of my own. And I agree with you on all of your points that you’re making here and the tower lovers. Don’t know that when they go to a movie theater, all the little speakers upfront are all mounted on the wall and they’re the ones that put out the most sound..
When this pandemic thing started, I build a home theater with used gear (except the TV and my source, an xbox one) so I decided to use bookshelves because of budget and also because I have a lot of nephews and one little daughter so, I just mounted them on the wall for those safety issues, i feel it's more safe for the kids and for the speakers too. Aaaaand, that left me more budget to add a sub, and other things in the room 👍🏼
Maybe I missed it but speaker wall brackets can be adjustable to angle that tweeter to your seating position. My brackets adjust left/right up/down & you know it when you get it spot on, the difference is amazing with slight tweaks.
No arguments here, but I think where floor-standers CAN excel is that most are three-way, so potentially better midrange and also much higher power handling and volume. You can also spend way more on floor-standing speakers to deliver better sound. I have a set of aging B&W Nautilus 804 tower speakers and they just flat out blow away my set of Wharfedale EVO 4.2 bookshelfs and subwoofer. Why? The floor-standers are bigger, so you can pack more sound dollars into them.
That point #4 about reselling is a REALLY big consideration. I've had heavy/bulky tower speakers damaged in shipping and that's much less likely with a lighter, smaller bookshelf unit.
I have had Revel Concerto M16’s (bookshelf) for two years and I love them, they are used with Paradigm Seismic 110’s. However, I splashed out on their bigger brother the F36 (towers), which cost twice the amount, but I did have to buy good stands for another $400. Without a doubt the Towers are better in my room and the bookshelves took on side surround responsibilities. So my opinion is if you are tight on budget get as good a pair of bookshelf’s, however, if you can push your budget go for the towers, in the long run they may prove the better investment. In my case the extra $600 was worth it and if I only wanted stereo I may have regretted buying the bookshelf first now I know the sound difference.
@@colinwilby8803 Yeah I went and got the Revel M16s today. Listened to them side by side with the R3 at the local hifi shop and somehow the sound was just more present, male vocals sounded somehow a bit distant on the R3s. Satisfied with music performance so far. Have to watch a movie with these also to hear what they can do it that side.
Bought some old Mission 753 floor standing speakers a few months ago for £100. The clarity, realism, full frequency spectrum blew my mind. I've never heard anything as good from any bookshelf speakers.
You arguments about bookshelf vs towers is well reasoned and makes sense to me. Nonetheless, when I upgraded the speakers in my den AV system I opted for a pair of Polk TSi300 towers, which are not really "full range", particularly for an AV system, paired with a Polk Signature Series S35 center channel speaker. I kept a Yamaha 8" powered sub that I already had in the system. The tower speakers place the tweeters almost exactly on the same level as my head when seated. I replaced the (cheap) Cerwin Vega center speaker but kept the original high wall mounted Cerwin Vega L&R speakers to switch from a 5.1 surround setup to a 7.1 setup with the CV's becoming front L&R "height" speakers. I've had height speakers in my home theater since constructed and I really like the effect. The surround speakers also remained from the original CV speaker bundle. I've never used bookshelves on a stand. What keeps the speakers from getting knocked off the stands? I don't have kids or pets but it seems to me that stability could be a problem.
I almost wanted to switch from KEF LS50 to towers. Any towers. Because my sub (SVS SB1000 pro) was not integrating well. All that has changed once I upgrade the sub to KEF KC62. Since the KC62 is so small and has no vibration, I can put the sub anywhere I want. My point is, integrating the sub is the key and can be difficult. But you will be rewarded once you find the sweet spot.
Good video. Especially when you are beginning out you always wonder what’s the point of towers. The synergy you get with a tower is hard to beat is my humble opinion. And they make a better show when put in a bigger room. And yeah I have a $$$ sub to go with it but I barely use it. I don’t like the sub bass when I just want to chill on a fine morning or after work. I use the sub only when I have people over. And trust me getting your sub and speakers to gel takes much much more effort than the cheapaudioman is making it sound like.
Great review, and timely for me as I have moved from floor standers to stand mounts…definitely a happy move for me. For the same investment, I have moved up to a higher echelon of speaker.
My old Sony bookshelf speakers saved my setup last week. I got some tower speakers and I was completely underwhelmed by them. (Yamaha NS-777). But I wired in my old bookshelf speakers which are the same ohms and it sounds great now! I must say my bookshelf speakers weren't that special (Sony ss-dx50) but they put out a lot of rich sound. The tower speakers make it sound way more detailed now because of those huge mid/tweeters. I'm pretty happy with it now, running on an Aiyima A07 with the Sparkos opamp mod and a Matrix mini i pro DAC. Using a cheap 100w active subwoofer too.
I'm a cerwin vega collector. So big huge speakers. I found some bookshelf speakers being thrown away on the side of the road, free speakers! 2 prs of klipsch kg 1.2 I paired them with my subs... WOW what beautiful sounding speakers
It was a big selling point back in the KLH, Advent, EPI etc. days. Remember some of the catalogs showing the speakers tucked neatly out of the way in a bookshelf. The sound from there... well, like you said.
They aren't really cheaper though, only if you are going for cheaper. I mean towers go just as cheap. There are bookshelves that are out of a lot of people's price range. Also figure stands.
got my pair of MIssion, small room on home made shelfs with my 40 watt integrated JVC, they sound fantastic not sub needed even, I put them exactly the height I wanted and I even can tilt them to change the intensity of the mid range. definitely win win. I'm going to set a bigger system in a bigger room IN the house and I'll go the same waY, may be different placement or more power, the current ones are about 170w and the amp will be more powerful, but bookshelf for sure.
Bookshelfs rarely, if ever have mid-range drivers built in (if some do, it's the exception to the rule). Floorstanders do. Also, Floor standers usually have an additional woofer not to mention all the extra cabinet space. They also take up the same amount of real estate.
3-way isn't always better. Many 2-way speakers sound great especially on vocals and electric guitar. Price is a very poor quality meter, but expensive 2-way is usually better than cheaper 3-way floorstander. I have it the other way, passive more expensive large 3-way pair and smaller inexpensive active (6 3/4" woofer, ribbon tweeter) 2-way pair. I like both, 2-way for TV and TH-cam, 3-way for turntable and CD. But you will need proper stands for bookshelf speakers, generic ~20 inch (~50 cm) TV stand/cabinet is usually too low for them.
@@pekkatervala8476 hey, you like what you like and that's all good. And I'm not saying that bookshelves can't sound good. Of course they can! But remember, a bookshelf speaker is a compromise. With a floor sander, the speaker designer can Implement everything he or she intended in the initial design. Anyhow, I agree, it depends on your situation, setup, and room. I just did not like how completely one-sided this video was and seemed unlike Randy. Idk.... it rubbed me the wrong way. Still a subscriber though.
@@CeeStyleDj I like to have both options. But these days I'd prefer column style floor standers more than boxy old style. Then again, something with a 15" inch woofer has it's charm.
I own those tower speakers in your thumbnail, the Wharfedale EVO 4.4 The only downsides of tower speakers I've experienced so far is the price and the weight. Bookshelves are cheaper, so you have more money left to buy records. And tower speakers are very heavy, which makes optimizing speaker positioning a pain in the back (literally). However, IMO, it's all worth it. And yes, my towers go deep enough, deep deep bass. Their -6dB point is 38Hz, but they go way beyond that point. I used to have a subwoofer, but I've sold it. About enjoying various different sound signatures: I get the point, I like that myself too. However, I change the sound signature by owning multiple cartridges on headshells to swap regularly. Those cartridges are way more compact than owning multiple bookshelf speakers!
“Cheaper” and “Better” are two different categories. What makes a speaker “Better” is the way it’s sounds.....period. If they are cheaper, well, then they’re cheaper...that’s it. The KLH Kendall’s which I dare you to review, will make this video pretty “moot”. Rated at 96db, with proprietary crossovers, Kevlar Drivers all in a Real Wood Cabinet...these reach down to 25hz needing no subwoofer. And for 1299, no Bookie Sub Combo for the same price can compare. And of yeah make sure to add in the extra price for some decent stands for those Bookies!! Now if you titled this video “Why Bookshelf Speakers may make more sense to buy?!” Then you’d have no argument from me.
I had a couple pairs from the 70's. One pair I upgraded with Bob Crites tweeters and crossover caps. They are awesome but definitely need a fast sub that can keep up for bass below like 50hz
Very good video. For me it is important that the speakers "disappear" and you feel nothing is between you and the music. Hard to do that with towers even though small speakers may take up the same space with stands.
You get what you pay for. I can see bookshelf in a small room, but makes no sense if the room is relatively large. High quality tower speakers prevail hands down.
I have towers that I bought from Harmon audio Ebay site for $468. They had an MSRP of $1700, they have a 250 watt 10" sub in each cabinet. Just saying, ive had them for 20years.
Towers have more gravitas, although being easy to move becomes more important as you age. Also a lot of newbies have trouble adjusting the xovers for a bookshelf_sub combo. Space is no consideration as both take up the same space. NEVER put a bookshelf on a shelf. That notion has passed, only the name still exists
we recently retired and bought a lake house.when i moved the home theater in, my black tower speakers and subs ruined the look of my living room.now i have replaced all my gear with rp 600's, a 52c center,atmos rears wall mounted and a couple polk 12" subs ,all in walnut finish and they all blend seamlessly in the room. the towers and all the other speakers are now in a dedicated music room above my workshop.
More range, better dynamics, more efficiency so they play louder with half the power. No need for stands. A 2 way speaker probably will have more clarity and resolution because the crossover is simple but a 3 way tower or a 4 way will play better overall if done right but will cost much more.
I agree with you. The problem arises when designers try to get too much bass extension for the drivers chosen and the volume of the cabinet is too big for those drives. So the sound loses coherence, midrange density, articulation, punch, soundstaging and imaging. As an example you can compare the bookshelf version of a speaker and then the floor stander will add just one more driver yet the speaker volume quadruples.
I watched this with great interest as I have tried this very same idea of using bookshelf speakers with a sub so the exact reason given here. Proac response bookshelfs were hard to marry to a sub (and B&W) - I tried lots of settings and combinations and found that the speakers were amazing, though lacked the depth I desire with a always flat eq (I know tone control are OK to use, but I don't wish to sacrifice detail / colour the sound at certain frequencies so I'm flat all the way and direct). The bass unit did what it does and was fine for movies, but it wasn't tight or coherent enough for music I found (it was rubbish in fact). I moved to huge pricey piega classic speakers which I unfortunately found fatiguing which took some of the pleasure away from them (beautiful looking things though and very balanced sound, I wanted to love them but... ). I then went back to ProaAc recalling the notable quality of the sound and wanted towers to lose the bass box that didn't do what I had hoped. Response DT8's purchased and I won't look back. These towers aren't huge or dominating (in fact the design is quite boring and unassuming), but the sound is nothing short of jaw dropping. The detail, speed, spaciousness and depth is all there and there is no fatigue at all - I can't stress enough I want for nothing more with what these speakers can do - if you can audition some I really recommend it. I enjoy trying different audio equipment, but I would not swap out these speakers now, there is no way of improving the sound vs space etc that I can fathom, I shall upgrade my amp to Roksan from Marantz, which I found enhances ProAc enough to justify the cost and make my system complete. I know this isn't very 'cheap', but it is nowhere near the crazy money end of audio either by a long stretch. I think I have found the sweet spot of cost vs quality here. The bass bin has been banished to the garage.. I should probably sell it because I shall never need it again 🙂 Thanks for the vids, the extra income plugs are a little tiresome, but I appreciate some people seem to like what you offer with it and it's just what happens on TH-cam channels now I guess 👍🏻
I have always preferred floor standing speakers. Especially since I have a large room. I just can't get the same fullness or scale of sound with stand mounts. Reason number two for me is I don't really care for a subwoofer. For me a good pair of floor standers has plenty of bass for my taste. Everyone is different and for some people a stand mount pair fits their particular room better. For me, it's gotta be a floor stander. Enjoyed the video and your perspective on the subject!
Sound quality is not dependent upon whether a speaker is a box or a tower. The main difference? Tower speakers generally have high quality drivers, and more of them. After all, there aren't many box speakers which have more than two drivers. Better imaging potential with towers, but that begins to get a bit esoteric.
Hi Randy, I know you’ve reviewed the SVS Prime and Ultra bookshelves. Do you plan on reviewing their Ultra Towers at some point, or does their price point exclude them from your reviews?
For me its like choosing between 4cyl car and a V8 . The 4cyl works to get me from point A to B, but if I can afford the v8 I go for that every time . It sounds better and it looks better .
In the lower priced world that we live in, stand mount speakers are usually a better bet than a floorstander. But, as you move up in price, no stand mount can approach the scale and majestic sound of a great well designed floor stander. Now, if you call the Las Scala a bookshelf speaker ('cause it's hardly a tower), then I would agree with you
Loool! Klipsch La Scala a bookshelf speaker! 🤣 Most people mean floor standing speakers when they say tower speakers, because most floorstanders are towers.
Depends on what you want. I've not heard a bookshelf setup that can generate the immersive soundstage a big ole pair of floor standers does. If you have room, go cheaper by buying used.
I have a two channel set up in a spare bedroom it is a small room I do have RP 280 F towers I got them on sale I like them but regardless I still won't subwoofers subwoofers and deeper extension with impact that is hard to get from any speaker tower or bookshelf my opinion subwoofers are a must regardless I don't care if I'm listening to music or if I'm listening to movies subwoofers are a must for me
Theres no better or worse on tower vs bookshelves. If you have a small space, the towers does not make sense since it will produce so much bass. If you have big space to fill the bookshelves might not produce enough energy to fill the room. Its more of a requirement than anything else. I tried to place tower speakers in a small space and it was laughable to say the least. Bass was all over the place and just overwhelmed the room. Then placed my bookshelves in the living room, well that bottomed out quickly. Lol just buy speaker according to the space your working with.
A good avr goes a long ways you can use the sound correction that's build in then set the tower to small then higher the crossover the accommodate for the smaller room if you ever need to move them to a larger room you can let them go wild I personally buy towers because then I have to buy stands and I don't like the way most speaker stands look
My laptop is my HiFi in a very small rented room. Not all that HiFi but works for me in my space. Play lots of old big band and jazz and a little rock. I'm sure you have upgrade ideas that are awesome.
I can relate 100% I drive pair of Usher x719 bookshelf speakers with two REL Q200e subs. Well, i must say sound is amazing, once you tweak subs rollof and gain.
You've made all these points at various times throughout the year. Especially I remember point two - " two good bookshelf speakers and a sub are better - I 'll debate you on that all day long". Nice to consolidate all this into a single presentation. Good job.
I have two very powerful subs: Klipsch R/115 VMPS Larger Sub. In terms of room integration Sub/Sat systems do just what you said….. offer better results through greater flexibility in positioning. Rockport Arrakis, or Tidal La Assoluta’s need (I’m being somewhat facetious) Aircraft hanger space for proper dial-in! Enough to know, that one MUST pay attention, and take room dimensions very seriously.
Here is the problem with a separate subwoofer most non audiophiles set the sub level too high and do not have or know how to use a SPL meter to adjust the sub to a proper matched level to there other speakers so the low end thay get is way too strong and is off the mark!
That depends on the type of tower floorstanding speaker,if a tower speaker has two 5.4" drivers in a non ported cabinet a sub most likely would help but i built my own tower speakers with two 8"woofers in a ported cabinet along with 6.5" mid-bass and 4.5" midrange plus 3/4" tweeter and a sub does not make these speakers sound better most of the time,you would get a build up in the low end that is overpowering!
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--------Elac Unifi 2.0 amzn.to/3aZQnwo
=======Elac Unifi 2.0 Tower amzn.to/3m1qJ0d
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Will you check out the HECO 700 aurora speakers?
@Fisher Man ha. Yeah
@cheapaudioman, can I get over the build quality of the Unifi 2.0 towers for $450 or hold out for the DFR52?
I think you are right on most of your points and I mostly agree, although I think you missed some things (especially my point #1).
Watched a review some time ago (don't remember who did it) that was talking about the "fake" duality between bookshelves and tower speaker:
1) You can also have a sub with tower speaker if you like. That may need a bit harder to place correctly, but it is doable. That way you can extend the lower bass that your not-full-range tower speaker might not have, while also having the spatial caracteristic of multiple drivers. If you mentionned it in your review, sorry if I missed it !
Did you experiment towers+sub ? If you have any thoughts I am curious !
2) If you want more sound signature, and it is what I actually do, you can get tower speakers on A and bookshelves on B, why would you have to chose only bookshelves ? Some songs, I prefer them on my tower speaker, others when I like more clarity in the voice (piano/vocal only for example), I prefer my bookshelves. That said, you need to have the space and make an argument to have 2 permanent setup (and maybe even 2 amp).
Here I was hoping your sponsor was Weyland looking to get volunteers to help out with the face hugger test subjects.
I ran down to the kitchen to get a cup of coffee and my wife said are you listening to that audio guy again.
😀😀😀
yep and he wants you to buy a new pair of speakers!!
@@Jethr001 Yes and he said small penis's....i mean small speakers are better than large ones.
😂😂😂😂
Really great set of reasons to go for bookshelf speakers, Randy. Must sell my towers immediately. Just kidding, tried loads of bookshelf speakers and I’m never selling my towers unless it’s for better towers. 😄
Mark... I have KEF 104/ 2 Towers in My LR since 1987, when I acquired them. No Equalizers, no SWs... They sound great to this day. I also have 4 pairs of Bookshelf speakers in my Finished basement "studio" (Kinda), created during 2020 Chinese Virus Hibernation, to play Music for enjoyment during work - at- home AND to play my Drums ( a rejuvenated interest into playing Drums after a 50 Year Hiatus). Now I'm retired (May 2021), and have a setup which incorporates 2 Receiver / Amps connected to as follows: IOTA PA3 & SA3 & an Emotiva A300 connected to 2 Pairs of Elacs (Reference and Debuts, both 6.2) in the front part of the room & a Denon DRA-800H Receiver connected to 1 pair of KEF Q350 & a pair of Fluance Signature Series HiFi Bookshelf speakers in the rear - that's where the Drum kit is located. When played in Unison - both the systems - the sound is like a concert hall . This setup is totally Anti-Audiophile , playing different speakers simultaneously. I am unable to "test" this against the KEFs in the LR , bc I'm not Hauling the KEFs to the basement for a comparison. But I can say, that sitting back in the LR, playing My Music (CD or Vinyl) on those KEF 104s is still a great delight. Maybe, If I am able to move those suckers, I will do the Sound Test or maybe move the basement speakers upstairs ???
@@Chiroman527 , that sounds like a lot of fun! My study system has been stripped back to Sansui SR222 MkII turntable, Zen Phono on the analogue side with ZenDAC Signature for digital via Tidal. Both feed a just completed upgraded NAD 314 and Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf(!) speakers. Sounds great but not s patch on my LR system with 150wpc Musical Fidelity amp and MA GR20 towers. Oh, there’s also a pair of Sundaras fed by the Zen CAN Signature. Enjoy it any way you like I say!
@@Chiroman527 On my 3rd pair of Kef's right now. Scored a used pair of 201/2 bookshelves. Amazing speakers even compared to whats out there to this day.
@@Chiroman527 BTW you're probably due to change out the caps
Whats a bookshelf really? Same height as a tower, half the drivers.
I shopped for stand mounts this year.
Found the tower version reduced, worked out cheaper then the standmounts plus stands. It seemed like an easy choice!
Not only that but, the towers sound better and you still need a sub!
Very good point!
You are so right!
If you have the space, towers make absolute sense. Why would I put bookshelf speakers in a 25 x 50' room?
And there are plenty of great tower speakers that hit to 25hz.
Cheap isn't always better. Its all about your wallet, room size, equipment, etc.
For the same price, bookshelf version plus subwoofer fills your room as well but with deeper and more even bass at your listening position.
@Douglas Blake Randy wanted to make a point where none was needed. Anyone can toss an inexpensive sub into their systems if the dimensions of the room warrant it.
And quality bookshelf speakers like the KEF LS50 Metas start at $1500.00. Or DyneAudio has a set that start at $6000.00.
Some cheap speakers are impressive - nut many. You always get in quality and performance what you're wallet ( or wife ) allows.
@@stopthefomo That again is dependent on your room dimensions. Its very simple. Would I placed tower speakers in a 10 x 10' room? Of course not. But my listening area is 25 x 25' - very few bookshelf speakers could handle the acoustics efficiently and I would need an 9.2 configuration at minimum to make up the difference that a bi-polar tower with a built in 12" 200 watt woofer can do ( DT B2002 ) .
What about value? What are the best $3000 Tower speakers. For $3,000 what's the best bookshelf speakers + stands + subwoofer + subwoofer cable if you think cable makes a difference.
@@kyron42 Value in my opinion is completely subjective. What can your wallet afford? Have less expansive speakers impressed you with their sound quality and appearance more than an expensive set you were considering? Its all on you sir.
Agree wholeheartedly with Randy here. I run bookshelves with subs & couldn’t agree more on the flexibility of fine tuning the bass to match programme material or room acoustics. Get a good sub to complement the main spks & dialing in the subs will be alot easier. I feel that a pair of bookshelves with sub or subs can rival floorstanders in terms of scale & bass. The bookshelves nowadays sound very large & enveloping & adding a sub or subs makes for almost full range sound.
I have been running M&K satellites and dual subs for a few years now. Oh also using a crossover to cut the bass out of the satellites at 80-100hz. You can setup the stand mounts in just the right place then do the subs so they all work together. Lovely! This idea was popularized in the 70s by M&K. It works extremely well.
You can easily add subwoofers to tower speakers for even better frequency blend and great bass. Once you add stands to bookshelf speakers they take us just as much space as tower speakers. Just like with bookshelf speakers you can subs for even better bass. Unless the room is small I feel like the advantage lies with tower speakers, but I respect your opinion.
@@wojtek-33 You're paying more for towers, but flexibility is debatable. Towers can fill a larger room with more sound and at least give you the option to use them without subs later if you choose to do so and retain more bass extension. One could argue towers may be able to blend with subs better than book shelves, once again due to greater bass extension. The only flexibility book shelves give you come from their size, but since you usually have to put them on speaker stands they use up about the same amount of space in the room as towers anyway. It's true that book shelves can be more easily shipped when reselling them, however. I feel like the larger your room and budget the more attractive tower speakers will become. If you're buying high-end speakers and you like to get new ones every couple of years and you don't live in a large metro area where reselling is possible you may want to consider bookshelf speakers based on resellability alone.
In my mind, if you have to add a subwoofer to a pair of stereo tower speakers, then you probably shouldn’t be buying those tower speakers, because in that specific instance, the flexibility of being able to use subwoofers with the towers is really going cost you more, and what space are you really saving in a large room against floorstanders?
As a 53 year old man who spent countless hours in "sound rooms" during his teen years listening to speakers without knowing what they cost until AFTER the demo I find your channel very refreshing! This video makes a lot of honest points but this can also be reverse engineered as I did. A few years ago I picked up a pair of Klipsch RF7 ii's for under $400 locally! Having cash on hand, a large enough vehicle and knowing such large items are difficult to sell I was able to get the for an absolute steal. I've had both bookshelf and towers throughout my life and I don't think bookshelves with subs quite give the same tight sound from towers but I'm always up for a listen to anything. Another small thing I wanted to mention, I too have Amazon HD music service and as much as I love it I was finding some older recordings on there, mostly country music sounded like trash. I thought for a moment perhaps my recollection was better than actuality so I took the time to dig out a bunch of my CD's and do an a/b test with amazon's files and as I remembered the CD's were MUCH better. Apparently some more obscure stuff must have been sourced off of really poor material because it was serving me a lossless flac file at a high resolution but clearly the CD was way better. For newer/popular music the Amazon service is great, no difference and perhaps better than the CD if you have superhuman hearing. I think a lot of people especially those audiophile types want to claim they have hearing better than they actually do which is why I never want to know what I'm listening to prior to the demo. It's sad not many sound rooms exist anymore, buying any speaker without listening seems ridiculous.
Wow that deal is amazing! I have RF-3 and love them, but have dreamed of RF-7’s for years now. I have to start looking again.
@@ChrisTheKid83 Yeah, it was a lucky find, I was watching facebook marketplace for over a year. I also managed months later to get the flagship center channel to match, another very good deal because I thought it was a used one I was bidding on (language barrier) but it turned out to be totally new in box! The speakers are natural beech or something and the center is black but can't complain. I also got my power amps (QSC SRA 3622's) from a guy down in AL that I trusted would send them, he did in an off Ebay deal. Probably not a wise thing but a very good deal for me and he was happy needing money for college and he had stopped using them to DJ. Sometimes people pass on, get divorced... many reasons that expensive gear is sold. Best piece of advice, call them on the phone don't just rely on messenger and no B.S., be ready to meet them and have the cash in hand once you know you're getting what was listed. I had one seller i bought a subwoofer from later call me and offer me his preamp very cheap because everyone else that had came to his house did thing like say "oh, I only have $$ with me" once they had already agreed on a price... not cool.
And these ridiculous Klipsch RF7 II speakers you need an amplifier. Why don't you just buy some really good two-way active studio speakers, and a active subwoofer?
@@rabarebra In short I like how they sound? I already had 5 large amps before I purchased the RF7's, in fact my low end isn't active, I use passive 15" cabinets for bass. Believe it or not large speakers don't always require a big amp, oftentimes as in the case of companies like Klipsch and Cerwin Vega the speakers are extremely efficient and can be driven to loud listening levels with a moderate sized amplifier. i rarely use more than a fraction of the power I have, turning the volume way up is deafening loud and I hope to still have some hearing left into my senior years. Prior to the RF7's I had two JBL studio monitors on stands, they sounded quite good but I prefer the Klipsch, to me it's a much wider soundstage and brighter sound. Some of us love that sound, others hate it and say it's grating.
@@robwasnj 5 large amps? I have 6 amps, and they're all inside its speakers. Sounds ten times better than any non-powered speakers.
Over 21 years I've moved backwards; from floor standers to bookshelfs(?) to full range drivers. Full range is a TRUE point source and you can add a sub or two if you're that gangsta-rap-boom-chick-a-wow-wow guy. Couldn't be happier with my setup that plays all music exceedingly well and best of all it was very affordable. Cheers.
If Fostex ever bothered to make a tower like Definity Audio has with subs in the bottom but using some of their more exotic full-range driver, I would have to put a lock on my wallet. They make some fantastic full-range speakers. The only problem you encounter with single-driver full-range solutions is beaming. This is why KEF and ELAC and a handful of raw driver manufacturers have taken the coincidental coaxial approach to reduce this. You still get your point-source with significantly less beaming, but at the cost of coherency, since you've decoupled the tweeter from the woofer and you'll inevitably have differences in attack speed, decay, dispersion, etc. It also depends a lot on the listening volume and the size of your speakers. if you're running 8" or larger full-range speakers from, like, 4' or less away, then you may not experience enough beaming to warrant consideration of a separate tweeter if your full-range driver is competent enough in those frequencies.
My name is Chris. I figured out this in the 90's. I got suckered into buying the raved about floor standing dynamic speakers. I Never could make them work, despite changing Amps,preamps, multiple room changes,etc....(Alon VI's, Legacy Signature lll's,the list goes on.You are Dead Right!!! I designed/Built a pair of 6.5" two way bookshelf speakers that still blow me away! I have a pair of large passive mirror imaged isobaric subs that have dual Dynaudio 30w54 woofers in each cabinet, with Heathkit sub crossover , with two bridged Crown amps just for the subs.but the imaging,3d and tonal accuracy is unmatched by floor standing speakers! (Except maybe Quad ESL 57's, Klipsch horns,and the like.I have met too many people that agree with us!
They both have their place. I do agree that you can dial in things easier with a sub and bookcases.
The older I have gotten the more I realize you are looking for the punch more than the pound of the bass. The difference is hearing the drum or hearing them hit the drum and hearing it move.
I've always prefer towers, but over the last year gravitating towards bookshelves. Do feel like dealing with the bulkiness of floor standers anymore. Plus, bookshelves are easier to deal with.
my condolences.
I like both. I have 5 systems with bookshelf speakers and one with large Klipsch towers with a large sub. Sometimes you feel like listening to different speakers. That's why I own 27 speakers.
Damn, and I thought 3 full systems with quadrophonic bookshelves and one tower system with 3 pairs of KEF's and 2 subs was rather extravagant. Nice work Mike :)
@@Cyba_IT I would love your KEFs. Thanks! I do have a Marantz 2020b in my garage. Overkill.
@@mikecampbell5856 Haha, you can never have too much audio gear my friend, no matter what the mrs says :p
lol
How many guitars and amps do you have Mike Campbell?? Hahahahaha
Randy,
I went from Kef LS50 to dynaudio c1 platinums and thought they were incredible. I moved on to a 2 way magico s1mk2 and thought that was the end for me with a pair of subs. Well the subs have stayed but the speakers were replaced with a 3 way tower pair of Rockport Atria II. They blow away everything else I have had up to this point. I feel like you benefit from subs with almost every speaker.
Wow you’ve gone from sub $2000 speakers to $30k towers
@@steelic1 Yes I went off the deep end. I have blown through 4 speakers in about 4 years along with 5 dacs and 4 amps to get here. I am lucky to have a dealer that has become a friend so I am able to get some great deals.
I have to agree on that one. I just ordered the klipsch RP 600 and the RP 8000 F and compared them right next to each other. The RP 600 bookshelf speakers just sounded way better combined with a subwoofer than the RP 8000 F tower speakers.
I had a pair of Klipsch R26FA reference towers with the built in atmos modules. I only used the built in atmos modules for about three weeks before going with dedicated height speakers. I used the towers for about a year, and they were decent, but I recently upgraded them to the RP600M’s, and with dual subs they easily compete with most towers.
So how were the floor standing speakers with the sub? Apples to apples.
@@kenneths.perlman1112 Not great. The bookshelf speakers were just way better together with the sub.
For my listening preferences, I prefer towers. I spent much of 2021 experimenting with bookshelves plus sub. This included the Elac UB5, and Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2EX. Those bookshelf speakers on stands look so cool. I want to like them!
However, I listen to a lot of large scale orchestral recordings. Even with a sub, the bookshelves leave a lot to be desired in bringing out the presence and depth of a full orchestra, especially in upper bass and lower mids. I have settled on some vintage Kef 104/2's for my orchestral stuff. They have 2- 8" woofers, 2- 4" midrange drivers, soft dome tweeter, plus my Rel sub. They are glorious. For all other genres I have really enjoyed the bookshelf plus sub combo. Randy, you make some good points as to why bookshelves would be preferable for a lot of folks.
That's what I noticed recently, too, after digging out my old speakers from the early 90's and placing them in the basement. Each has a 12" woofer. The sound just feels bigger with orchestral music. Though they go deep (32 Hz), they lack some punch, which explains why I got a sub a few years later, but they completely enjoyable with orchestral recordings. I love my bookshelfs plus sub, but there's something special about the big speakers.
I agree, larger speakers certainly have more impact. They make you feel sound more even in the mid area. And they can sound more full even if you are listening in low volume
@@darkpatches 12" woofers won't sound any good. It sounds more like you have a PA-system.
@@rabarebra Huh, I guess that explains why they don't.
@@darkpatches Or you just don't know better.
You make some valid points, and there's some well explained logic in this video. There are obviously pros and cons with both floor standing and bookshelf speakers, and each room is a huge variable that should be considered. Also, the potential cost of good stands for a bookshelf speaker is not insignificant, but they aren't a requirement in every situation, and should still allow a buyer to stay within the "less expensive" goal if they shop wisely. Larger speakers with more bass output and extension tend to be more prone to exciting room resonances in some rooms, whereas a smaller speaker is less likely to do so, due to the simple aspect of having less of the frequency output that tends cause those resonance issues. As the video points out, it's a bit tougher to address bass issues with tower speakers than it is for bookshelf speakers with a sub, because there's just more flexibility for addressing the room needs for bass with the sub and smaller speakers via placement, more specific volume control, crossover frequency selection, phase, etc.
In your example of the Klipsch towers and Klipsch bookshelf speakers, the two speakers share several intentional design concepts (family traits) like similar cabinet construction/treatment, same/similar drivers, and likely some similarities in crossover parts and configuration, wiring, etc, which should mean there a lot of similarities in sound quality, clarity, and sonic signature, with the exception that the smaller speakers will likely have less bass output and extension (which is where the subwoofer comes into play). So given that there's essentially no "next level" upgrade benefits from spending more on the bigger speakers (in this example), there's an opportunity to spend some of the money saved on improvements to the rest of the system, and end up with some upgrade benefits after all. You could also look to an upgrade in overall speaker quality by going with a higher quality bookshelf speaker and sub over a lesser tower system.
It all boils down to what you like the sound of, but I think this video suggests some great ways to help our audio budget go farther.
Great point about the room factor.
learned something from your comment . thanks
Dude, saying bookshelves are "wayyyyy better" is a bit of a stretch don't you think? Bookshelves on a stand usually take up the same space as towers. You can adjust the bass on the amp if it's too much.
Very much a stretch. Lol. I use these absurd titles so people will watch what this idiot has to say. Of course there’re not Way better. I’m actually thinking of doing a why tower speakers are Way better than bookshelf speakers
@@cheapaudioman Several tower speakers i've heard have more clarity than the bookshelf counterpart of the same series. They deal with floor bounce issues, etc better, have the same footprint and they integrate easier with subwoofers.
@@cheapaudioman I appreciate your sense of humour.
Bookshelf speakers obviously aren't way better than towers, but a good pair of bookshelf speakers can sound better than a crappy pair of tower speakers and they indeed don't need the same amount of place.
One important point for your future "why tower speakers are way better" feature: you can easily move them away from the wall. Sure, you can move bookshelf speakers away from the wall, but bookshelves tend to be at the wall and mounting these speakers on a special stander basically turns them in (probably inferior) tower speakers.
@@cheapaudioman oh, ok, so it's Clickbait!?
@@DenisHavlikVienna It's depending on your application. If you have room for towers and a sub then sure you'd choose a good set of towers. But most people don't have money or space for a full 12ch system in their bedroom or office. While you may want bass in your face there's not much bass if you're listening to opera, see the difference actually that should be hear, Lol.
Wow. Submarine guys are so special. Thumbs up as always Randy. Excellent arguments. Can't wait for the 5 reasons towers are better than bookies. Efficiency, impact (mid range/bass slam), output, realism, frequency range, no stands/dual subs required, etc.
👍 someone who gets Randy’s humor
With the wife and daughter both working from home these days, I have to watch the noise levels during work hours. But my Edifier 1280DB's are just perfect, great sound, no sub needed and fit on my desk- no need for anything bigger.
There's definitely something to be said for portability/ease of moving around. I'll always be a floorstander guy because of the larger drivers that some of the floorstanders use. It's tough to beat displacement.
Harley Davidson have been saying this for years 😉
From what you said I'll go with floor standers.
I'm gonna' need a full, 12-minute review of an audio component by Buffalo Bill. Have a great weekend!
Haven't seen too many CAM vids, but this is the best. Full of useful, factual info. Well done.
Here are my reasons: #1) ability to separate bass speakers from the mid and tweeter, this allows for bass speaker placement to attain flat response at the listener position, this procedure is best pursued with some type of measurement equipment (REW on a laptop, two channel mic preamp and flat measurement microphone, but I use a 31 band RTA), #2) independent placement of the mid and tweeter from those now correctly placed bass speakers to attain proper soundstage imaging, very important part of the listening experience (both of these are best attained with a sufficiently large room of near ideal dimensions and symmetrical (right-left) spacing of the room forward of the listening position), #3) ability to utilize large bass speakers (10" or 12") compared to a tower speaker, #4) less reflective surface area as the satellite (bookshelf) speakers will sit on stands with their vertical support boards parallel to the side walls, #5) ability to independently set the proper height of the satellite speakers so that the center of the tweeter is at ear height when sitting in the listening chair.
Indeed I Concur 🤗✌️
I have five svs prime satellites with one svs sb2000 pro sub and they are a beast. Soon I'll add another sub.
I agree!!! I always had bookshelf speakers, never liked towers. Stand mount speakers are more ear level. I like the look also.
With AVR receivers you can set the crossover not only in the preout going to the sub, but they have a crossover for each speaker as well. So you can adjust your tower speakers to not even get a signal starting at any frequency you want.
Not my Yammy, it's all or none, only sub crossover lol
Randy! Another great video! Funny, funny intro too. A lot of excellent and true points that no one (till now!) talks about. Another powerful reason that bookshelves are better, is that it's easier to get spousal approval, partly because of size, and partly cause they're cheaper. I've had huge speakers, and I just don't want to devote that much floor space to them anymore. I love the flexible placement options one has with bookshelves.
And last, speakers have improved so much in the last three decades, that for low to medium volume levels, a floorstander just isn't needed to achieve excellent quality sound. If I can't get the job done with a great 6 1/2" woofer and 1" dome tweeter, there's a problem with the brand, model, or manufacturer.
That intro was hilarious! I just scrolled through 20 comments and nobody mentioned that in their first 40 words.
Buffalo Bill's bed and breakfast?! Super wild, I almost don't believe that's a real B&B.
I was always a floor-stander guy (Klipsch RF-3, B&W CM10s, Spendor A3, Jensen LS-5b etc.) until I recently bought a set of Buchardt A500 active stand mount speakers. Fantastic imaging, no interconnecting cables, adaptable sound signature (via programable DSP) and DEEP bass. They are also much easier to reposition than my old floor standing speakers. Personally I'm sold. I also have a pair of B&W CM5 stand mount speakers, and while they are good, they lack the bass heft that I wanted. In the end get what makes you happy!
Towers all day. I'm a never-bookshelfer (I've got 2 sets of bookshelves, they bothl got replaced with towers: rp600m, ub5). Even small towers don't have the punch I want and I'm not a basshead or one who listens crazy loud but I want big sound. I prefer dual 8", nothing smaller that I've heard works on that really hard bass music.
sorry, but an RP or UB5 isnt realy the state of the Art bookshelf presentation... Genelec 8351, Neumann KH310 or KH120, Unity The Rock,Sky Audio Verdade - this are High End Bookshelfs. All that low priced consumer stuff a la Klipsch, Dali, Magnat is (sorry) mostly Crap
@@vtkz thanks for sharing your expertise. One day maybe I'll be more equipped to move into that echelon, as of now, I'm comparing my rp towers to bookshelves. Towers, for me, are the clear winner by leaps and bounds. Honestly, I like the spatial audio sapphires x5s.
@@kohnfutner9637 When youve fun everything is perfect. I heard many passive Towers and i dont like them (also expensive stuff from brands like Magico, Dali or Wilon Benesch wasnt 100% my taste). But i‘m also a little bit more on the ,,exotic,, side of hifi since years. I choosen Studio Gear because i dont like most of the typicall ,,consumer?!,, Hifi Loudspeaker i heard so far. I had also different Klipsch’s many years - Bookshelfs and also the rf7 - Never want to go back to this type of products again. Maybe try active ones out, order some good monitors and make a comparison. Never heard open Baffles. The main problem is see with them is the room acoustic because the room is the cabinet and when you dont treat it correctly… i see more problems than solutions there (but thats just guessing)
@@vtkz
I made my own hybrid speakers 2 8" BC acoustics woofers in a box sealed two planar magnetic midranges open baffle and four planar magnetic tweeters open baffle
The baffle is 1 1/2 inch cherry live edge
The sound is just incredible
I never heard open baffle speakers until I built mine
Probably never go back to normal ones.
My trade off was my low bass
The two BC acoustics put together are 97db sensitive I tried to port them to get better bass but the planars are just too fast without the vacuum inside the box the woofers couldn't keep up so I had to seal them
Anyway enjoy doing what you do it's all about the enjoyment for us all
i love my towers speakers the sound is beter. all way with towers sweet sound everything you need for the best sound around
What I Love about bookshelf speakers, is that I can move them anywhere. If I want to show some family members some speakers they might like, I can just grab the Loxjie A30 and the speakers. Three easy things to move around anywhere I please.
Definitely better if you believe in bass management below 80Hz because smooth bass response requires decoupling the bass from the speakers (using subs) which relegates the towers to act as large bookshelves
??? The bass on floor standers is in its own enclosure ...so it's like a sub
@@edwardbalboa5528 bass radiates everywhere but you want to be able to control that or the bass of the room becomes uneven at the main listening position. When you use bass management it basically relegated the towers to a bookshelf as the cabinet bass use is then defunct....but the bass would be better managed.
honestly I'm all for it, I work at a best buy and all my favorite speakers to listen to and test are the bookshelves. Namely the Kef bookshelves.
Damn...Admire your honesty but you deserve better.
I used to get people into home theater and help them choose and install their systems a lot (but kind of ran out of people after a while), and I virtually always recommended bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer (or two). Budgets were usually tight, and even when they weren't so tight, I'd always try to get people to step up to a better speaker if their budget allowed, so tower speakers rarely ever entered the equation, as they cost a lot more money for little if any gain. The process of integrating the subwoofer always made me grateful that I could move it independently of the directional speakers, and I always ended up with better results than relying on tower speakers for bass.
Based on experience, I was preaching the message "Use subs and crossovers, even if you already had tower speakers as a starting point" online for many years before it became standard practice, and believe me, there was some major resistance early on, when most people still greatly preferring tower speakers and wanted to run them full range, even for home theater. With a properly integrated sub taking over most bass duties, it soon became obvious to me that bookshelf speakers were the way to go, especially for home theater, but also for two-channel music because of superior bass extension (with the right sub!) and integration (if set up properly). I had always wanted towers myself, many years ago, but no longer saw the point of them for the vast majority of installations once I really got into setting up home theater and music playback systems for others with a variety of equipment.
There are exceptions, but those are generally for people who aren't real constrained by budget. If you have a huge budget and want 3-way towers with RAAL ribbon tweeters and purpose-designed, ultra-low-mass mid-range drivers for exquisite detail because there are separate woofers for the mid-bass and bass, and you'll also have a subwoofer or two, then go for the towers. Others who can't or simply aren't willing to afford anywhere near that level of expenditure are generally better off with bookshelf speakers and a sub. That's based on experience, not just theory, although the two sure aren't far off in this case.
You can't go for higher tier shelf speakers. Since you need at least 4 higher tier speakers to replace 2 towers and 2 shelves. And you will need higher tier amplifier(s), to drive their potential.
This is going to be far more expensive than just getting towers, and people who ask for acoustics advice will most likely not even hear the difference.
Home theater is where floorstanders shine. Unlike some people's reasoning.
You convinced me. I came from the older mentality that whoever had the largest speakers and speaker enclosures wins.
I like my Klipsch RP600Ms. They work well with my tube amp. Maybe I'll add one or perhaps two subwoofers someday.
Get a REL subwoofer for those, and you'll be in heaven. 😃
Well, most of the time I use bookshelf speakers because I ALWAYS use a sub. But in an application where you want to really crank it, floorstanders will typically play louder and still stay clear. And I do like 3-way designs for pure music.
Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 is a 3-way bookshelf speaker ;-)
@@rodionpavlenko4680 Yeah but it still sounds like a bookshelf.
im no audiophile and dont claim to be lol. im sure they all will laugh at me at what i say next but i really dont care. i recently got a screaming deal on a onkyo 7ch reciever and a full 5pc set of episode 500 series surround sound speakers. 4 bookshelfs and a center. i bought the whole thing for 70 bucks used locally. i actually really like how loud and clear they sound. i honestly couldnt be happier to be quite honest. i just ordered a klipsch 12" powered sub. currently waiting for it to arrive. i never heard of episode but i can say im quite impressed w the quality and sound of their speakers for sure. i cant wait to get my sub though thats for sure. i guess im saying you dont need to spend a million bucks on your stereo for it to sound good thats for sure. maybe i just got a killer deal i dont really know lol. but i can say best 70 bucks ive spent in a long time for sure. i was actually looking into getting towers myself tbh. maybe ill just stick w what i got who knows. i will say if you ever run into a deal on some episode speakers buy them you wont be disappointed. they sound phenomenal
You need to buy stands for bookshelfs, and most likely they wont be as stable as floorstanding.
Also, the efficiemcy is better with bigger one, as well as frequemcy range.
Having bookshelf speakers makes you a better speller.
@@richardhollingsworth8342 And more arrogant. At least in some cases, apparently.
Mine are mounted to wall mounts and screwed to the mount. Not going anywhere.
@@timthefosterdad Which isnt usually the best place from acoustic point of view.
I’ve been rocking B&W Matrix 805s for 27 years(+/- 1.75 Db 55Hz - 20,000Hz!). I run them with a big M&K sub. No need for floorstanders, here!
Yep. This is the method being used to help grandson get into this hobby. Start with lower cost alternatives, improve as the budget allows. BTW have you noticed the large number of high-quality, terrific sounding bookshelf/desktop/monitors are available? Great topic. and it can go with any DAC you choose.
Great inexpensive stuff is available
Or you can do like my friend did with IEMs and jump pretty rapidly to a set right on the edge of the azimuth of return on investment, thus making it incredibly difficult to buy upgrades for him.
Usedddddddf
I don’t even know if you went over the biggest issues with tower speakers.
1) Imaging. They tend to have more drivers, spread over more space. This means they’re less inclined to function as more compact point source radiators, a theoretically ideal speaker. Bookshelf speakers get much closer to this ideal. Having separate midrange and treble drivers further complicates imaging. The larger fronts of the floor standers also create issues with reflection.
2) Crossover. Floor standers tend to be 3-way designs. Many are even 4-way if you count the ports or passive radiator. Designing and building effective crossovers is an expensive art and can dramatically increase the price of the speaker, as can the design of the ports, radiators and whatnot. You can buy your way around these issues, but it won’t come cheap.
3) Cone breakup. The larger woofers typically found in floor standers are hugely vulnerable to cone breakup, where the driver doesn’t behave in a linear fashion. You also have issues where the midrange shifts around physically in space due to the large driver’s excursion. It’s less expensive to avoid these issues with the smaller bass/midrange drivers typically found in bookshelf speakers.
4) Cabinet resonances. In my book this is the worst issue with floor standing speakers. Their large sides - or even fronts and backs, as with old school traditional floor standers like the ones from 80s with their broad faces and shallow sides - are terribly susceptible to resonances. You can pay your way around it, but it’ll cost you a pretty penny for a tower with the engineering to avoid cabinet resonances, something even cheap bookshelf do just by their nature. Honestly, I can hear resonances from virtually all floor standers, even ones that cost a thousand more than their closet bookshelf relative. And they drive me NUTS. Once you hear cabinet resonances you can never un-hear them.
Great points, and they attest to the versatility of bookshelves. I think all of these advantages stand, as long as we are talking about a smallish / medium size room, and we are comparing to towers also in the 80s dB/Wm efficiency. However, when the the room allows, large size speakers have advantages that bookshelves cannot provide: efficiency, dynamic range, and scale. These all require "lungs"
(large free air volume), and adding subs does not help (compact sub adds dynamically compressed bass...) You mentioned one point towards the end that resonates most with me: upgrading the system the small bookshelf speakers can step up big time, so there's no reason to be sad in case you have a small room and no space for large speakers. I might be the minority in my view that I prefer bookshelves unaccompanied (no subs), as adding a sub so far has soured the taste for me, and destroyed the beauty of precision and focus that the bookshelves can achieve unhindered by subs in a very high level system.
Although I would add that bookshelves + a pair of subs takes up more floorspace than a pair of floorstanders when set up optimally... Cheers, Janos
Finally a vote for no sub. I tried subs with bookies on tube and solid state amps. Could not get a realistic music sound with subs. Gave them away. Now run Elac dbr62's with rockville tube amp. Can hear down to 35 htz. Lower than cheap subs. After break in for one year, the elacs sound even better. Stands- $45 wood plant stands with foam pad cut to fit under speakers. Awesome sound. Must hear to believe. Great for movies. The amp makes a big difference to my ear.
Recently got a pair of Atlantic Technology AT-1 towers used for $350. I’m loving them and also just upgraded from a Sony AVR STR-DN1020 to a Rotel rsp1068 and Rotel 1075 and I got both for a total of $240. Also picked up a Amazon link $80, Cambridge 551p-s phono preamp $75, and Pro-Ject 1xpression $500, Polk psw650 for $150. And I haven’t even got to listen to all of it hooked up yet, but I’m excited!
Tower vs two way stand mount has as much to do with room size you're working with and both have their pro and cons. I do agree that towers are not automatically better, just different. I have gone back and forth over the decades, currently doing the two way + sub combo currently. For fullest sound, SPL, and "feeling" the music, floor standers + a sub! :)
Author all but implies that you are unable mix tower speakers with subs.
But yeah, there are no laws against it or anything.
@@B08AH Then the author is wrong.
Have to admit, this is the best option alright....you have get yourself the best sub you can find.
Very true. I say to always incorporate a sub, allow for specialization. A tower is not going to hit low freqs with the spl's a sub can give. Also a sub can be moved around to get the best bass for your listening position. And I have towers, and use 2ea. Subs. I like the aesthetic of a tower and they have their own stand built in. 😉
It's actually amazing that you had this video today. Great timing. For financial reasons, I'm selling a very large pair of Legacy Focus Towers. I just made a homemade pair of bookshelf speakers that use a full-range driver. I am absolutely blown away at how great the mid-range clarity and general instrument clarity is on those 1.2 cubic foot boxes. I had a 10 in KRK studio sub in a closet in my basement. I set it up in a corner in my relatively small 14 by 18 foot living room, this cheap setup really sounds great.
I totally agree. I've been playing with mini-monitors and bookshelf speakers for a very long time, and about 20+ years ago decided to standardize on 5" woofers for all my speaker needs, and add a subwoofer to the mix. I've been 100% satisfied with that arrangement, and have even downsized to 4" woofers now! The advantages far, far, far outweigh the negatives.
Great set of arguments for bookshelves. Agree with all of them and yet still found myself buying a pair of stage a170s over their bookshelf a130s. This was an odd case of a sale making the bookshelf plus stands costing the same as towers and my room is large enough that I will appreciate the larger speakers.
yeah. the JBL stage series is such a crazy value that my "cheaper" argument doesn't really apply with those. I want to hear the towers in the stage series.
@@cheapaudioman the stage a170 are $360 a pair with free shipping right now on crutchfield. While the reviews on the towers are minimal stereophile did a nice one on the stage a170. No good vid review though…..nudge nudge.
I've had a few pairs of tower speakers, I always felt they were at the wrong height for where my listening position was, I even built stands for the towers, to bring them up to ear level, defeating the point of buying towers, the lesson learned was buy book shelves and custom build stands to bring them to the perfect listening position, for me that's the tweeters at ear level,
Bookies are a good way of sampling a brands flavor of sound without dropping major loot down.
As I mentioned in a previous video, I am a blind person so tower speakers my dad used to have a pair of them and what was really annoying. Was he had them by the door going into my living room so I would always run into them and knock them over. I’ve noticed that you just get so much more out of bookshelf speakers, which is why I never invested in tower speakers of my own. And I agree with you on all of your points that you’re making here and the tower lovers. Don’t know that when they go to a movie theater, all the little speakers upfront are all mounted on the wall and they’re the ones that put out the most sound..
When this pandemic thing started, I build a home theater with used gear (except the TV and my source, an xbox one) so I decided to use bookshelves because of budget and also because I have a lot of nephews and one little daughter so, I just mounted them on the wall for those safety issues, i feel it's more safe for the kids and for the speakers too.
Aaaaand, that left me more budget to add a sub, and other things in the room 👍🏼
Maybe I missed it but speaker wall brackets can be adjustable to angle that tweeter to your seating position. My brackets adjust left/right up/down & you know it when you get it spot on, the difference is amazing with slight tweaks.
No arguments here, but I think where floor-standers CAN excel is that most are three-way, so potentially better midrange and also much higher power handling and volume. You can also spend way more on floor-standing speakers to deliver better sound. I have a set of aging B&W Nautilus 804 tower speakers and they just flat out blow away my set of Wharfedale EVO 4.2 bookshelfs and subwoofer. Why? The floor-standers are bigger, so you can pack more sound dollars into them.
That point #4 about reselling is a REALLY big consideration. I've had heavy/bulky tower speakers damaged in shipping and that's much less likely with a lighter, smaller bookshelf unit.
I have had Revel Concerto M16’s (bookshelf) for two years and I love them, they are used with Paradigm Seismic 110’s. However, I splashed out on their bigger brother the F36 (towers), which cost twice the amount, but I did have to buy good stands for another $400. Without a doubt the Towers are better in my room and the bookshelves took on side surround responsibilities. So my opinion is if you are tight on budget get as good a pair of bookshelf’s, however, if you can push your budget go for the towers, in the long run they may prove the better investment. In my case the extra $600 was worth it and if I only wanted stereo I may have regretted buying the bookshelf first now I know the sound difference.
Did you use the M16s for music or movies or both, thinking between them and KEF R3s for my 5.1 setup to replace my floorstanders
@@rickgrimes4845 I used them for both, but they now are doing Side surround duties as I have just bought F36’s.
@@colinwilby8803 Yeah I went and got the Revel M16s today. Listened to them side by side with the R3 at the local hifi shop and somehow the sound was just more present, male vocals sounded somehow a bit distant on the R3s. Satisfied with music performance so far. Have to watch a movie with these also to hear what they can do it that side.
@@rickgrimes4845 I hope you enjoy them as much as me, spend a little time getting the position correct and I am sure you will be.
Bought some old Mission 753 floor standing speakers a few months ago for £100. The clarity, realism, full frequency spectrum blew my mind. I've never heard anything as good from any bookshelf speakers.
You arguments about bookshelf vs towers is well reasoned and makes sense to me. Nonetheless, when I upgraded the speakers in my den AV system I opted for a pair of Polk TSi300 towers, which are not really "full range", particularly for an AV system, paired with a Polk Signature Series S35 center channel speaker. I kept a Yamaha 8" powered sub that I already had in the system. The tower speakers place the tweeters almost exactly on the same level as my head when seated. I replaced the (cheap) Cerwin Vega center speaker but kept the original high wall mounted Cerwin Vega L&R speakers to switch from a 5.1 surround setup to a 7.1 setup with the CV's becoming front L&R "height" speakers. I've had height speakers in my home theater since constructed and I really like the effect. The surround speakers also remained from the original CV speaker bundle. I've never used bookshelves on a stand. What keeps the speakers from getting knocked off the stands? I don't have kids or pets but it seems to me that stability could be a problem.
I almost wanted to switch from KEF LS50 to towers. Any towers. Because my sub (SVS SB1000 pro) was not integrating well. All that has changed once I upgrade the sub to KEF KC62. Since the KC62 is so small and has no vibration, I can put the sub anywhere I want. My point is, integrating the sub is the key and can be difficult. But you will be rewarded once you find the sweet spot.
Try a pair of REL's, you will be amazed ... 🙂
@@henni1964 I am sure of that. But I don’t have room to properly place them.
Good video. Especially when you are beginning out you always wonder what’s the point of towers.
The synergy you get with a tower is hard to beat is my humble opinion. And they make a better show when put in a bigger room. And yeah I have a $$$ sub to go with it but I barely use it. I don’t like the sub bass when I just want to chill on a fine morning or after work. I use the sub only when I have people over. And trust me getting your sub and speakers to gel takes much much more effort than the cheapaudioman is making it sound like.
Great review, and timely for me as I have moved from floor standers to stand mounts…definitely a happy move for me. For the same investment, I have moved up to a higher echelon of speaker.
100%. I’ve been using stand mounts and a sub for years.
I went from bookies + subs to Tekton Double Impact. Will never look back.
My old Sony bookshelf speakers saved my setup last week. I got some tower speakers and I was completely underwhelmed by them. (Yamaha NS-777). But I wired in my old bookshelf speakers which are the same ohms and it sounds great now! I must say my bookshelf speakers weren't that special (Sony ss-dx50) but they put out a lot of rich sound. The tower speakers make it sound way more detailed now because of those huge mid/tweeters. I'm pretty happy with it now, running on an Aiyima A07 with the Sparkos opamp mod and a Matrix mini i pro DAC. Using a cheap 100w active subwoofer too.
They are better in every way except sound.
How’s your kool-aid? Was it yummy? Sounds like you drank it all.
I'm a cerwin vega collector. So big huge speakers. I found some bookshelf speakers being thrown away on the side of the road, free speakers! 2 prs of klipsch kg 1.2 I paired them with my subs... WOW what beautiful sounding speakers
I came in ready to do battle but this makes total sense although...I believe the worst location for a bookshelf speaker is a bookshelf.
I was thinking the same thing! The sound from a speaker in a bookshelf is most often hollow. Might as well put a speaker in an 55 gallon oil drum.
It was a big selling point back in the KLH, Advent, EPI etc. days. Remember some of the catalogs showing the speakers tucked neatly out of the way in a bookshelf. The sound from there... well, like you said.
We need to call them what the audio press calls them- stand mount speakers
I am a tower brat, but in my youth, I loved my Jensens... Great points! And my first surround system were small Polks which rocked.
They aren't really cheaper though, only if you are going for cheaper. I mean towers go just as cheap. There are bookshelves that are out of a lot of people's price range. Also figure stands.
got my pair of MIssion, small room on home made shelfs with my 40 watt integrated JVC, they sound fantastic not sub needed even, I put them exactly the height I wanted and I even can tilt them to change the intensity of the mid range. definitely win win. I'm going to set a bigger system in a bigger room IN the house and I'll go the same waY, may be different placement or more power, the current ones are about 170w and the amp will be more powerful, but bookshelf for sure.
Bookshelfs rarely, if ever have mid-range drivers built in (if some do, it's the exception to the rule). Floorstanders do. Also, Floor standers usually have an additional woofer not to mention all the extra cabinet space. They also take up the same amount of real estate.
3-way isn't always better. Many 2-way speakers sound great especially on vocals and electric guitar. Price is a very poor quality meter, but expensive 2-way is usually better than cheaper 3-way floorstander. I have it the other way, passive more expensive large 3-way pair and smaller inexpensive active (6 3/4" woofer, ribbon tweeter) 2-way pair. I like both, 2-way for TV and TH-cam, 3-way for turntable and CD. But you will need proper stands for bookshelf speakers, generic ~20 inch (~50 cm) TV stand/cabinet is usually too low for them.
@@pekkatervala8476 hey, you like what you like and that's all good. And I'm not saying that bookshelves can't sound good. Of course they can! But remember, a bookshelf speaker is a compromise. With a floor sander, the speaker designer can Implement everything he or she intended in the initial design. Anyhow, I agree, it depends on your situation, setup, and room. I just did not like how completely one-sided this video was and seemed unlike Randy. Idk.... it rubbed me the wrong way. Still a subscriber though.
@@CeeStyleDj I like to have both options. But these days I'd prefer column style floor standers more than boxy old style. Then again, something with a 15" inch woofer has it's charm.
@@pekkatervala8476 I agree!
I own those tower speakers in your thumbnail, the Wharfedale EVO 4.4
The only downsides of tower speakers I've experienced so far is the price and the weight.
Bookshelves are cheaper, so you have more money left to buy records.
And tower speakers are very heavy, which makes optimizing speaker positioning a pain in the back (literally).
However, IMO, it's all worth it.
And yes, my towers go deep enough, deep deep bass.
Their -6dB point is 38Hz, but they go way beyond that point.
I used to have a subwoofer, but I've sold it.
About enjoying various different sound signatures:
I get the point, I like that myself too.
However, I change the sound signature by owning multiple cartridges on headshells to swap regularly.
Those cartridges are way more compact than owning multiple bookshelf speakers!
“Cheaper” and “Better” are two different categories. What makes a speaker “Better” is the way it’s sounds.....period. If they are cheaper, well, then they’re cheaper...that’s it. The KLH Kendall’s which I dare you to review, will make this video pretty “moot”. Rated at 96db, with proprietary crossovers, Kevlar Drivers all in a Real Wood Cabinet...these reach down to 25hz needing no subwoofer. And for 1299, no Bookie Sub Combo for the same price can compare. And of yeah make sure to add in the extra price for some decent stands for those Bookies!! Now if you titled this video “Why Bookshelf Speakers may make more sense to buy?!” Then you’d have no argument from me.
You make a very very good point.
That surround sound suggestion was a good point if you're on a budget , thanks .
Thanks for the ideas, Randy! As soon as I find a pair of La Scalas, I’m mounting those on the wall!
that made me laugh out loud
DUDE! Please send pictures! Hahaha Surely, it has been done. Thanks for the laugh and smile!
I had a couple pairs from the 70's. One pair I upgraded with Bob Crites tweeters and crossover caps. They are awesome but definitely need a fast sub that can keep up for bass below like 50hz
I've seen it done in many clubs
Very good video. For me it is important that the speakers "disappear" and you feel nothing is between you and the music. Hard to do that with towers even though small speakers may take up the same space with stands.
Go for good satellites and good subs and you will be surprised
You get what you pay for. I can see bookshelf in a small room, but makes no sense if the room is relatively large. High quality tower speakers prevail hands down.
I have towers that I bought from Harmon audio Ebay site for $468. They had an MSRP of $1700, they have a 250 watt 10" sub in each cabinet. Just saying, ive had them for 20years.
Towers have more gravitas, although being easy to move becomes more important as you age. Also a lot of newbies have trouble adjusting the xovers for a bookshelf_sub combo. Space is no consideration as both take up the same space. NEVER put a bookshelf on a shelf. That notion has passed, only the name still exists
It depends on the shelf... bookshelf speakers/monitors sit on shelves all the time in sound studios next to workstations.
@@xephael3485 What is the metric "gravitas" when assessing how good a speaker is? I'm not familiar with it.
@@MatSmithLondon me either 🤣
we recently retired and bought a lake house.when i moved the home theater in, my black tower speakers and subs ruined the look of my living room.now i have replaced all my gear with rp 600's, a 52c center,atmos rears wall mounted and a couple polk 12" subs ,all in walnut finish and they all blend seamlessly in the room. the towers and all the other speakers are now in a dedicated music room above my workshop.
I personally love Bookshelf Speakers! Why get towers when they are normally twice the money but imo not double the performance.
More range, better dynamics, more efficiency so they play louder with half the power. No need for stands.
A 2 way speaker probably will have more clarity and resolution because the crossover is simple but a 3 way tower or a 4 way will play better overall if done right but will cost much more.
This was a great Video! I have my mans cave with Klipsch rp 6000 f, and i love them!
But its absulutely true! No room, no sound!
I agree with you. The problem arises when designers try to get too much bass extension for the drivers chosen and the volume of the cabinet is too big for those drives. So the sound loses coherence, midrange density, articulation, punch, soundstaging and imaging. As an example you can compare the bookshelf version of a speaker and then the floor stander will add just one more driver yet the speaker volume quadruples.
I watched this with great interest as I have tried this very same idea of using bookshelf speakers with a sub so the exact reason given here. Proac response bookshelfs were hard to marry to a sub (and B&W) - I tried lots of settings and combinations and found that the speakers were amazing, though lacked the depth I desire with a always flat eq (I know tone control are OK to use, but I don't wish to sacrifice detail / colour the sound at certain frequencies so I'm flat all the way and direct). The bass unit did what it does and was fine for movies, but it wasn't tight or coherent enough for music I found (it was rubbish in fact).
I moved to huge pricey piega classic speakers which I unfortunately found fatiguing which took some of the pleasure away from them (beautiful looking things though and very balanced sound, I wanted to love them but... ).
I then went back to ProaAc recalling the notable quality of the sound and wanted towers to lose the bass box that didn't do what I had hoped. Response DT8's purchased and I won't look back. These towers aren't huge or dominating (in fact the design is quite boring and unassuming), but the sound is nothing short of jaw dropping. The detail, speed, spaciousness and depth is all there and there is no fatigue at all - I can't stress enough I want for nothing more with what these speakers can do - if you can audition some I really recommend it. I enjoy trying different audio equipment, but I would not swap out these speakers now, there is no way of improving the sound vs space etc that I can fathom, I shall upgrade my amp to Roksan from Marantz, which I found enhances ProAc enough to justify the cost and make my system complete.
I know this isn't very 'cheap', but it is nowhere near the crazy money end of audio either by a long stretch. I think I have found the sweet spot of cost vs quality here. The bass bin has been banished to the garage.. I should probably sell it because I shall never need it again 🙂
Thanks for the vids, the extra income plugs are a little tiresome, but I appreciate some people seem to like what you offer with it and it's just what happens on TH-cam channels now I guess 👍🏻
I have always preferred floor standing speakers. Especially since I have a large room. I just can't get the same fullness or scale of sound with stand mounts. Reason number two for me is I don't really care for a subwoofer. For me a good pair of floor standers has plenty of bass for my taste. Everyone is different and for some people a stand mount pair fits their particular room better. For me, it's gotta be a floor stander. Enjoyed the video and your perspective on the subject!
Sound quality is not dependent upon whether a speaker is a box or a tower. The main difference? Tower speakers generally have high quality drivers, and more of them.
After all, there aren't many box speakers which have more than two drivers. Better imaging potential with towers, but that begins to get a bit esoteric.
Hi Randy,
I know you’ve reviewed the SVS Prime and Ultra bookshelves. Do you plan on reviewing their Ultra Towers at some point, or does their price point exclude them from your reviews?
For me its like choosing between 4cyl car and a V8 . The 4cyl works to get me from point A to B, but if I can afford the v8 I go for that every time . It sounds better and it looks better .
In the lower priced world that we live in, stand mount speakers are usually a better bet than a floorstander. But, as you move up in price, no stand mount can approach the scale and majestic sound of a great well designed floor stander. Now, if you call the Las Scala a bookshelf speaker ('cause it's hardly a tower), then I would agree with you
Loool! Klipsch La Scala a bookshelf speaker! 🤣
Most people mean floor standing speakers when they say tower speakers, because most floorstanders are towers.
Depends on what you want. I've not heard a bookshelf setup that can generate the immersive soundstage a big ole pair of floor standers does. If you have room, go cheaper by buying used.
My Klipsch Forte's disagree. good day sir.
I have a two channel set up in a spare bedroom it is a small room I do have RP 280 F towers I got them on sale I like them but regardless I still won't subwoofers subwoofers and deeper extension with impact that is hard to get from any speaker tower or bookshelf my opinion subwoofers are a must regardless I don't care if I'm listening to music or if I'm listening to movies subwoofers are a must for me
Theres no better or worse on tower vs bookshelves. If you have a small space, the towers does not make sense since it will produce so much bass. If you have big space to fill the bookshelves might not produce enough energy to fill the room. Its more of a requirement than anything else.
I tried to place tower speakers in a small space and it was laughable to say the least. Bass was all over the place and just overwhelmed the room. Then placed my bookshelves in the living room, well that bottomed out quickly. Lol just buy speaker according to the space your working with.
A good avr goes a long ways you can use the sound correction that's build in then set the tower to small then higher the crossover the accommodate for the smaller room if you ever need to move them to a larger room you can let them go wild I personally buy towers because then I have to buy stands and I don't like the way most speaker stands look
My laptop is my HiFi in a very small rented room. Not all that HiFi but works for me in my space. Play lots of old big band and jazz and a little rock. I'm sure you have upgrade ideas that are awesome.
Wife-acceptance factor is better for bookshelf speakers ;-)
I can relate 100%
I drive pair of Usher x719 bookshelf speakers with two REL Q200e subs. Well, i must say sound is amazing, once you tweak subs rollof and gain.
You've made all these points at various times throughout the year. Especially I remember point two - " two good bookshelf speakers and a sub are better - I 'll debate you on that all day long". Nice to consolidate all this into a single presentation. Good job.
I have two very powerful subs: Klipsch R/115
VMPS Larger Sub.
In terms of room integration Sub/Sat systems do just what you said….. offer better results through greater flexibility in positioning.
Rockport Arrakis, or Tidal La Assoluta’s need (I’m being somewhat facetious)
Aircraft hanger space for proper dial-in!
Enough to know, that one MUST pay attention, and take room dimensions very seriously.
With decent towers you don’t need the extra hassle of a separate subwoofer
With a seperate subwoofer you don't need the extra hassle of tower speakers ;)
@@dervel123 But the footprint with bookshelf speakers and subwoofer is 50% more :(
Here is the problem with a separate subwoofer most non audiophiles set the sub level too high and do not have or know how to use a SPL meter to adjust the sub to a proper matched level to there other speakers so the low end thay get is way too strong and is off the mark!
Most floorstanders still benefit from a sub
That depends on the type of tower floorstanding speaker,if a tower speaker has two 5.4" drivers in a non ported cabinet a sub most likely would help but i built my own tower speakers with two 8"woofers in a ported cabinet along with 6.5" mid-bass and 4.5" midrange plus 3/4" tweeter and a sub does not make these speakers sound better most of the time,you would get a build up in the low end that is overpowering!