Enda - It’s like Jota coming back to Celtic- you just know you should never go back but still a bit of you thinks that if do return you ll refind the magic. Great to see you back
welcome back Enda, (you are dead to me) for leaving us but welcome, (Irish humour), great to see you and keeping well, happy Christmas to the huddle breakdown!
Jock Stein would go and watch opposition teams and sit with an A4 piece of paper with a pitch drawn on it. Every time they had the ball he would trace with a pencil following the ball in possession. After the game he could see where on the pitch their main plays were. 60’s/70’s analytics.
@@JohnCl if you could remember, it would be greatly appreciated. Any idea where he got this idea? I’ve read a couple of Jock stein biographies and there’s nothing like this. That story is the real gold dust. How he analysed the game. Fascinating stuff. Have a Happy Christmas.
@@michaelfern4079 Happy Christmas, Michael. Vague memory of it coming from Sean Fallon, but I can’t be certain. I just know I heard it many years ago and thought, how simple, but genius.
@@JohnCl it is. I bet there’s tons of things stein used to do like this. Even how he used to deal with the press or the story how he told Sir Alex what to do with Real Madrid . A lot of the people who knew him won’t be around for much longer. I’d love to know more.
According to Apple Intelligence, ‘The terms "mean" and "average" are often used interchangeably to describe a central value of a set of numbers. Typically, the "mean" refers specifically to the "arithmetic mean," which is calculated by summing all the numbers in a data set and then dividing by the count of those numbers. "Average" can refer to the mean, but it can also refer to other measures of central tendency, such as the median or mode, depending on the context.’
Really interesting take from James re. AGI being unachievable. I just finished Yuval Hararis Nexus and was wondering why he has come to this conclusion? Interesting analogy with Alchemy, Newton lost aome vital years to the pursuit.
Haven't read his book so can't comment on his arguments. Like with climate change, my skepticism on arguments goes up when I see them crafted to appeal to emotions/fear vs treating the topics with the seriousness they demand.
GREAT TO SEE ENDA, the dundee u game was a tactical disaster for rodgers , especially from what could be seen from goodwins midfield press , which was clearly a work in progress. when dundee u pressed celtics mids there was a disconnect between forward players in the press and their back 4 . there was clearly a hole in the middle of dundees block that celtics mids and fb's should have loitered , mcowan was the only mid playing a high enough field posi to get some reward , hatate and calmac too deep. half time came and went , and no tactical change until rodgers went nuclear with 2 up frontish. one or two more bodies putting pressure on dundees back 4 through the middle , dundee get picked apart , with thier poorly executed press. no coincident that celtics best chance came from a layoff to kyogo from idah through the middle. there is a semi alarming trend emerging for celtic and rangers in that both their net xg margins are in decline, 1.15/.95 respectively , and we are now within striking distance of variance playing a more active role
I was big into SABR communities in the 2010’s - ironically before I got my stats masters. Association football stats suffer more than the OG’s of cricket/baseball with extensive residual confounding, imo. The latter, one delivery/pitch leads to one strike/swing and a clearly measurable outcome. You see it in basketball, KenPom was innovative in the early 2010’s because he used per-possession stats. Neat little chunks of observability. And crease time and the sheer number of at bats over a baseball season tend to force central limit theorem/randomize out confounding, I’d posit. Association football is just so difficult to assess based on isolated stats. Association football needs systems analysis (which you guys do a good job of) whether than rote statistics. Also, the lack of confidence intervals on stats that allow that description have always bothered me. Big time numbers guys seem to live their own brand a bit much too. Nate Silver Syndrome. Just my humble opinion.
I respect James' opinion on AGI, but I think it is inevitably going to happen within the next 5 years, probably sooner than that. The latest advancements from Open AI (o3 model) and Google (Gemini 2) in December alone give me confidence in this view.
I do not believe that we are anywhere near understanding how the human brain functions, let alone being able to engineer its replication via human-built statistical models. In addition, my understanding of complex systems and related dynamics leaves me skeptical beyond the bigger issue of the nature of intelligence, consciousness, and cognition. This is not to suggest I believe there will be no meaningful applications and use cases.
@jucojames All fair points. I do understand the skepticism - I work in tech so admittedly I'm biased towards it and believe it will continue to progress rapidly. The path to AGI might look very different from how the human brain functions but the end results could be functionally equivalent or superior in many ways. I believe that a super-intelligent system could help us understand difficult concepts like how the human brain works, how to cure cancer, etc. Interested to see how it all plays out either way 🙂
Great shows. Nice to see Enda back. What’s Rodgers plan after January? Rodgers didn’t deny the Tierney rumours. Does this mean a change in shape? Something we’ve seen from Rodgers before resembling more of a 3421 or 3412? Is he going to tuck Johnston in beside another two centre backs? Maybe push Tierney into midfield. He could put Engels on the right to a position he’s more suited. Also having Kuhn and Maeda as number 10’s could pull defenders all over the place creating more space for Kyogo. Also, Hatate. Rodgers seemed to jinx him by stating how pleased he was with his consistency and he’s dropped off ever since! I’d Get Bernardo in there and let Hatate fight it out for a number 10 role. Here’s to an exciting second half. Thanks again. Have a great Christmas. 👍
It would seem it doesn't matter who oor current Manager plays in midfield, since NONE of them & I mean NONE of them, are doing ANYTHING like of continued & sustained serious note, whether it's Captain Timid, £11 million benched non starter Engels, moody & sulky, give the ball away far too easily & far too often Hatate, cut price, give the ball away far too easily & far too often, pass it backwards even when I don't have to Bernardo, bargain basement rare starter McCowan & last but not least, Invisible Man Holm & the real piece de resistance on the part of oor current Manager was putting on £11 million Engels against Wee Dundee Ten Defenders United with only five minutes to go & whit the hell wis that all aboot ffs??????
@ I get the points but but BUT we are 9 clear, one trophy in the bag, a possible domestic treble and unless there’s a complete disaster, we’ll have football after the Champions League initial phase. Merry Christmas?
@@michaelfern4079 I get your points too, ''but but BUT'' never mind us winning yet another domestic Treble & which is the bare minimum we can most rightly demand & most rightly expect from oor current Manager, I've also been saying since October, that oor current Manager deliver of us another domestic Invincible season to emulate that of season 2016 -2017 & not because we're a Team of world beaters, because we're just NOT, ''but but BUT'' rather because ALL the rest of them are near total crap & so in that regard too, I never saw the 0-0 result against Wee Dundee Ten Defenders United as similarly total crap, if we had lost 1-0 it certainly would have been & so then NO second Invincible season.
Interesting discussion, some good points raised. The positives we leave out but concerning issues we need to ‘clean up’. Mr. James e.g. giving an opinion on Engels the footballer as concerning. You need to go back to Dortmund and what does that game tell you about Celtic. This game was all about Rodgers and his lack of tactical nous i.e. defending. In this game, young Engels showed me that he could play particularly in an attacking capacity. Second half, and Sabitzer is marking him, and the Austrian applies (3) marking techniques. Engels twice was at midfield racing back to receive a pass from Johnston. It’s not on, simply because Sabitzer is ‘on’ him. Engels changes his run to shake Sabitzer. There is no shaking Sabitzer; this running off the ball indicates he is working very hard to get free of his marker. Move forward to Leipzig. Was Engels play in this match concerning? No. I then bring up Brugge and the CCV own goal. Celtic fans outraged with Engels running away from Johnston and not giving him an option. But Engels run provided a huge ‘hole’ (oh wait! the concept of making space) with his run for CCV to move into and offer himself to the passer. CCV did not and this goal was all on him for not providing that option. Engels knows how to play and this so-called fall from grace is purely based on how teams are playing against us. Those opponents studied Brugge versus Celtic and came up with ‘The Sabitzer Plan’ and this is called man marking. Some opponents cannot sustain that tactic because of fatigue and not knowing defensive marking techniques in addition to pressing etc. Man-marking is a challenge that requires knowledge, and it is not just saying “mark your player’. I agree with Enda in this current Celtic team Engels should be a (6) and a move to right back might help. He needs to keep his game simple: work on his first touch, play 1 - 2 touches, and play the way you face and allow his game to grow. His self-confidence at this point has to be very low. As for Rodgers initiating any coaching input, just look at how he uses Valle and Bernardo.
Considering we shelled out £11m on him, do you see a Rodgers formation change where he can used to get the best out of him, ie on the right side of midfield or as you said, right back?
fans haven't ignored what rodgers said about engels. they're not saying 'he isn't oriley' they're saying 'so what does he bring?' and so far rodgers has failed to integrate him into the team like oriley did. some times rodgers tactics deeply misinterpret celtic's environment compared to other clubs he has managed. he thinks he needs strength and power to compete against declan rice on the ball . thats not celtic's environent
Trusty is far too hesitant at this stage. Scales was worse, so I expect Trusty to improve, but just now he should be dropped for big domestic games. For Scales
celtic probably have found their mor replacement , and his name is luke mccowan , and given mccowans play against dundee u , and his larsenesk attack contribution per 90, rodgers thinks so as well minus running the channels and hitting the pockets ala mor , hopefully that comes
re blocking the cut back , eveyone should watch slotts liverpool , the fake runs toward the 6 yard box then double back, almost impossible to defend without a back 6 or 7
Nobody has said Engels was MO's replacement. Nobody. Engels has been awful defensively and offensively, positionally, physically. No one knows if he is a 6 8 10 RM CM LM RW or RB. Augsburg spent £100k on him in 2023 which is about right.
Jesus, so is it really a case of little Augsburg spending a tiny, little, measly, £100,000 as recently as last year, on £11 million Engels???? Seriously??????
Engels will NEVER make it as a Celtic Player. This is our Barkas & Ajeti moment. These fans that say wait till next season. £11m to WAIT. Aye jog on. 🙄
To be completely fair to £11 million, 21 year old Engels, it just might be a bit too much to say that he will & I quote you '' NEVER make it as a Celtic player'' simply because so many others, myself included, said the exact same thing aboot Kuhn at the turn of the year & then he went on to prove all the critics & doom mongers near COMPLETELY wrong by scoring some truly high quality & exquisite goals & not only in the woeful & dire SPL, but also at the very highest level in Europe & it just might be that, since we've already had one footballing Damascene conversion with Kuhn this season, we can't now start to expect similar from an £11 million benched Engels, but for sure, he MUST start to dramatically improve & soon.
Enda was such a loss to the podcast. He held it together so well, and had a wonderful humour about him. Great to see you three back together.
What a wonderful Christmas present from The Huddle - brilliant stuff, cheers guys! 👍
So good to see Enda back. Happy Festivus!
The Three Amigos are BACK! 🟢⚪🟠
Hang on - please don’t tell me my salary was “deferred” just to get Enda a library??
it is the only one in the whole of Australia
@@alanmorrison5981 is it one of those scammy libraries like ex-presidents have?
🤣
😂💚🍀🇮🇪
Scales should have been playing from start t Hampden. Done it so many times against them with different partners.
Best Xmas present seeing you three back together. Thanks and have a merry Xmas guys.
Enda - It’s like Jota coming back to Celtic- you just know you should never go back but still a bit of you thinks that if do return you ll refind the magic. Great to see you back
Lol wee paddy getting moist
christmas eve off, huddle breakdown, what more can i ask for
welcome back Enda, (you are dead to me) for leaving us but welcome, (Irish humour), great to see you and keeping well, happy Christmas to the huddle breakdown!
Hear hear!
Enda, Engels isn’t 23, he just turned 21 in September.
its yo boy!
What a crew! They should start a podcast
Good to enda, merry Christmas to one and all.
Jock Stein would go and watch opposition teams and sit with an A4 piece of paper with a pitch drawn on it. Every time they had the ball he would trace with a pencil following the ball in possession. After the game he could see where on the pitch their main plays were. 60’s/70’s analytics.
I heard Pat Nevin talk about this on a podcast about Jock Stein. Did you hear this from the same place or from elsewhere or a book?
@ known this for a good few years, Michael. Can’t remember who I Iheard it from, but it wasn’t Pat.
@@JohnCl if you could remember, it would be greatly appreciated. Any idea where he got this idea? I’ve read a couple of Jock stein biographies and there’s nothing like this. That story is the real gold dust. How he analysed the game. Fascinating stuff. Have a Happy Christmas.
@@michaelfern4079 Happy Christmas, Michael. Vague memory of it coming from Sean Fallon, but I can’t be certain. I just know I heard it many years ago and thought, how simple, but genius.
@@JohnCl it is. I bet there’s tons of things stein used to do like this. Even how he used to deal with the press or the story how he told Sir Alex what to do with Real Madrid . A lot of the people who knew him won’t be around for much longer. I’d love to know more.
According to Apple Intelligence, ‘The terms "mean" and "average" are often used interchangeably to describe a central value of a set of numbers.
Typically, the "mean" refers specifically to the "arithmetic mean," which is calculated by summing all the numbers in a data set and then dividing by the count of those numbers. "Average" can refer to the mean, but it can also refer to other measures of central tendency, such as the median or mode, depending on the context.’
🤔
Really interesting take from James re. AGI being unachievable. I just finished Yuval Hararis Nexus and was wondering why he has come to this conclusion?
Interesting analogy with Alchemy, Newton lost aome vital years to the pursuit.
Haven't read his book so can't comment on his arguments. Like with climate change, my skepticism on arguments goes up when I see them crafted to appeal to emotions/fear vs treating the topics with the seriousness they demand.
This is great 😂
GREAT TO SEE ENDA,
the dundee u game was a tactical disaster for rodgers , especially from what could be seen from goodwins midfield press , which was clearly a work in progress.
when dundee u pressed celtics mids there was a disconnect between forward players in the press and their back 4 . there was clearly a hole in the middle of dundees block that celtics mids and fb's should have loitered , mcowan was the only mid playing a high enough field posi to get some reward , hatate and calmac too deep.
half time came and went , and no tactical change until rodgers went nuclear with 2 up frontish. one or two more bodies putting pressure on dundees back 4 through the middle , dundee get picked apart , with thier poorly executed press. no coincident that celtics best chance came from a layoff to kyogo from idah through the middle.
there is a semi alarming trend emerging for celtic and rangers in that both their net xg margins are in decline, 1.15/.95 respectively , and we are now within striking distance of variance playing a more active role
ENDA! Auld Lang Syne!
I was big into SABR communities in the 2010’s - ironically before I got my stats masters. Association football stats suffer more than the OG’s of cricket/baseball with extensive residual confounding, imo. The latter, one delivery/pitch leads to one strike/swing and a clearly measurable outcome. You see it in basketball, KenPom was innovative in the early 2010’s because he used per-possession stats. Neat little chunks of observability. And crease time and the sheer number of at bats over a baseball season tend to force central limit theorem/randomize out confounding, I’d posit. Association football is just so difficult to assess based on isolated stats.
Association football needs systems analysis (which you guys do a good job of) whether than rote statistics.
Also, the lack of confidence intervals on stats that allow that description have always bothered me.
Big time numbers guys seem to live their own brand a bit much too. Nate Silver Syndrome.
Just my humble opinion.
All good points and i'm with you - thanks
I must be the only person who has not missed Enda at all
A huge big Christmas miaow to you too.
Brutal Christmas post. But honesty must be commended.
Good old enda slaggin the whole of Europe in 1 show a year in Australia has done wonders haha
You guys know that Engls is only 21 🤯 it’s claimed he’s 23 about ten times
Engels has only recently turned 21 - he isn’t 23. Fairly significant difference in there developmental potential I’d imagine?
I respect James' opinion on AGI, but I think it is inevitably going to happen within the next 5 years, probably sooner than that. The latest advancements from Open AI (o3 model) and Google (Gemini 2) in December alone give me confidence in this view.
I do not believe that we are anywhere near understanding how the human brain functions, let alone being able to engineer its replication via human-built statistical models. In addition, my understanding of complex systems and related dynamics leaves me skeptical beyond the bigger issue of the nature of intelligence, consciousness, and cognition. This is not to suggest I believe there will be no meaningful applications and use cases.
@jucojames All fair points. I do understand the skepticism - I work in tech so admittedly I'm biased towards it and believe it will continue to progress rapidly. The path to AGI might look very different from how the human brain functions but the end results could be functionally equivalent or superior in many ways. I believe that a super-intelligent system could help us understand difficult concepts like how the human brain works, how to cure cancer, etc. Interested to see how it all plays out either way 🙂
Great shows. Nice to see Enda back.
What’s Rodgers plan after January? Rodgers didn’t deny the Tierney rumours. Does this mean a change in shape? Something we’ve seen from Rodgers before resembling more of a 3421 or 3412? Is he going to tuck Johnston in beside another two centre backs? Maybe push Tierney into midfield. He could put Engels on the right to a position he’s more suited. Also having Kuhn and Maeda as number 10’s could pull defenders all over the place creating more space for Kyogo.
Also, Hatate. Rodgers seemed to jinx him by stating how pleased he was with his consistency and he’s dropped off ever since! I’d Get Bernardo in there and let Hatate fight it out for a number 10 role.
Here’s to an exciting second half.
Thanks again. Have a great Christmas. 👍
It would seem it doesn't matter who oor current Manager plays in midfield, since NONE of them & I mean NONE of them, are doing ANYTHING like of continued & sustained serious note, whether it's Captain Timid, £11 million benched non starter Engels, moody & sulky, give the ball away far too easily & far too often Hatate, cut price, give the ball away far too easily & far too often, pass it backwards even when I don't have to Bernardo, bargain basement rare starter McCowan & last but not least, Invisible Man Holm & the real piece de resistance on the part of oor current Manager was putting on £11 million Engels against Wee Dundee Ten Defenders United with only five minutes to go & whit the hell wis that all aboot ffs??????
@ I get the points but but BUT we are 9 clear, one trophy in the bag, a possible domestic treble and unless there’s a complete disaster, we’ll have football after the Champions League initial phase.
Merry Christmas?
@@michaelfern4079 I get your points too, ''but but BUT'' never mind us winning yet another domestic Treble & which is the bare minimum we can most rightly demand & most rightly expect from oor current Manager, I've also been saying since October, that oor current Manager deliver of us another domestic Invincible season to emulate that of season 2016 -2017 & not because we're a Team of world beaters, because we're just NOT, ''but but BUT'' rather because ALL the rest of them are near total crap & so in that regard too, I never saw the 0-0 result against Wee Dundee Ten Defenders United as similarly total crap, if we had lost 1-0 it certainly would have been & so then NO second Invincible season.
Interesting discussion, some good points raised. The positives we leave out but concerning issues we need to ‘clean up’. Mr. James e.g. giving an opinion on Engels the footballer as concerning. You need to go back to Dortmund and what does that game tell you about Celtic. This game was all about Rodgers and his lack of tactical nous i.e. defending. In this game, young Engels showed me that he could play particularly in an attacking capacity. Second half, and Sabitzer is marking him, and the Austrian applies (3) marking techniques. Engels twice was at midfield racing back to receive a pass from Johnston. It’s not on, simply because Sabitzer is ‘on’ him. Engels changes his run to shake Sabitzer. There is no shaking Sabitzer; this running off the ball indicates he is working very hard to get free of his marker. Move forward to Leipzig. Was Engels play in this match concerning? No. I then bring up Brugge and the CCV own goal. Celtic fans outraged with Engels running away from Johnston and not giving him an option. But Engels run provided a huge ‘hole’ (oh wait! the concept of making space) with his run for CCV to move into and offer himself to the passer. CCV did not and this goal was all on him for not providing that option. Engels knows how to play and this so-called fall from grace is purely based on how teams are playing against us. Those opponents studied Brugge versus Celtic and came up with ‘The Sabitzer Plan’ and this is called man marking. Some opponents cannot sustain that tactic because of fatigue and not knowing defensive marking techniques in addition to pressing etc. Man-marking is a challenge that requires knowledge, and it is not just saying “mark your player’. I agree with Enda in this current Celtic team Engels should be a (6) and a move to right back might help. He needs to keep his game simple: work on his first touch, play 1 - 2 touches, and play the way you face and allow his game to grow. His self-confidence at this point has to be very low. As for Rodgers initiating any coaching input, just look at how he uses Valle and Bernardo.
Considering we shelled out £11m on him, do you see a Rodgers formation change where he can used to get the best out of him, ie on the right side of midfield or as you said, right back?
Jesus at times during the Scales discussion I was wishing we could get back to talking about the Rangers ‘ whining about their ‘penalty’
Paul Erdos ,of what is your Erdos number fame , would be a brilliant football analyst. He would take no prisoners with stupid use of the data .
Ah, we miss Enda.
Analytics and Celtic may come if it works at Hearts, they will be the great Scottish experiment.
Is Enda speaking into a pint o’ Guinness?
fans haven't ignored what rodgers said about engels. they're not saying 'he isn't oriley' they're saying 'so what does he bring?' and so far rodgers has failed to integrate him into the team like oriley did. some times rodgers tactics deeply misinterpret celtic's environment compared to other clubs he has managed. he thinks he needs strength and power to compete against declan rice on the ball . thats not celtic's environent
Trusty is far too hesitant at this stage. Scales was worse, so I expect Trusty to improve, but just now he should be dropped for big domestic games. For Scales
JJ, for the love of god, it’s pronounced “call” like in Collins.
It's for the love of God, NOT for the love of god.
celtic probably have found their mor replacement , and his name is luke mccowan , and given mccowans play against dundee u , and his larsenesk attack contribution per 90, rodgers thinks so as well minus running the channels and hitting the pockets ala mor , hopefully that comes
It was foolscap then😊
Engels is taking up distinctly average positions
That’s funny!
re blocking the cut back ,
eveyone should watch slotts liverpool , the fake runs toward the 6 yard box then double back, almost impossible to defend without a back 6 or 7
Nobody has said Engels was MO's replacement. Nobody. Engels has been awful defensively and offensively, positionally, physically. No one knows if he is a 6 8 10 RM CM LM RW or RB. Augsburg spent £100k on him in 2023 which is about right.
Jesus, so is it really a case of little Augsburg spending a tiny, little, measly, £100,000 as recently as last year, on £11 million Engels???? Seriously??????
more important than formation or tactic is each player being taught to know their opposite number
Engels will NEVER make it as a Celtic Player. This is our Barkas & Ajeti moment. These fans that say wait till next season. £11m to WAIT. Aye jog on. 🙄
To be completely fair to £11 million, 21 year old Engels, it just might be a bit too much to say that he will & I quote you '' NEVER make it as a Celtic player'' simply because so many others, myself included, said the exact same thing aboot Kuhn at the turn of the year & then he went on to prove all the critics & doom mongers near COMPLETELY wrong by scoring some truly high quality & exquisite goals & not only in the woeful & dire SPL, but also at the very highest level in Europe & it just might be that, since we've already had one footballing Damascene conversion with Kuhn this season, we can't now start to expect similar from an £11 million benched Engels, but for sure, he MUST start to dramatically improve & soon.
Fkn bullshit.