OldieBones sorry but the only reason I unsubbed, was due to the music in the background as well as those crazy effects within the video. It doesnt make him more authentic.
That's is a sick angle. However, I heard there was a kid one time who went to bring some paperwork to one of his professors. When he walked in the professor was playing poker with some judges. So the guy walks up and starts betting for his professor in the middle of the hand. One of the other players piped up and said, "you've seen half the hand how the fuck are you betting into us?" The kid says "well we know what we have and we know what you have." Now another player chimes in and says, "the fuck you know what we all have." So the kid proceeds to tell every player at the table their exact hands. This rattles the other players and they all fold their hands and ask the professor what he had, and he says, "nothing but a busted straight." True story.
I really hope is was. You and Daniel Negreanu are my favorite poker players. Also your videos really helped my poker game so thank you for the effort you put into them.
I watched the live stream of this and yes it was bad. Had a similar thing happen in a deepstack event at my local casino. Bad guy shoves river. I look over a his chips and he moves his hands away to let me see his stack. It was not much more than my river bet. I call and the bad guy opens his hand to show me he had three larger chips in his closed fist. Effectively tripling his shove. I called the floor and complained that his chips were not visible and should be removed from the event. Floor decided that I did not ask the dealer for a count and therefore had to call the whole amount.
Hypothetical poker etiquette question: Suppose you raise to 3 big blinds UTG, and someone behind you reraises to 14 big blinds, and now the big blind is tanking and looks like he is considering shoving all in. If you have something like Q-J suited and have already decided to fold, do you have to pretend like you're interested in the hand the entire time that the big blind is tanking? If you have pocket aces and you want the big blind to shove all in, can you feign disinterest in the hand to encourage a shove?
was a nice call - i think, for the most part, the situation (the play on both ends, doug and alec) is quite common in mid-high stakes games...definitely not straight forward, but not really noteworthy - but i suppose the video watching stakeholders don't view it as common? (thinking out loud)
David Chin I'll respectfully disagree. I think that neither player took a standard line. I don't think most players are 3 betting and emptying the clip with no equity, like Doug. I think from Alec a check-fold on the turn would be standard. Not that either play was bad but really I can't see it as standard at all. But hey, I could be wrong.
you're right, most players aren't blasting like doug did here, but, from my experience in mid-high nlh, this hand wouldn't be noteworthy or of discussion amongst the regs later on or even post hand at the table
I just saw this hand on a different channel, a few days ago. I liked how it was announced that he had already done this earlier, and that he had the nuts when doing so. That's a type play that could get you killed back in the earlier days of Poker..
The tournament director should have warned him previously that if he did it again, he would be disqualified. This is within the authority of the director, in order to protect the integrity of the game and the reputation of the tournament
Alec tell me how bad of an angle shoot this is: flip comes I raise he re raises me all in. He looks down avoiding all eye contact. I fold throw my hand to the dealer dealer doesn't say anything he doesn't notice. I then say I call after I muck he shows ak and we argue how I should pay him for like 5 minutes before floor comes
David Yei doug 3 bets from position pre flop a lot of the time and plays his buttons fairly aggressive so JJ is still ahead of a lot of Doug's 3 bet range, flop comes only one over card with the Ace and it's a pretty dry board (7 Ace 2) two spades. yes Alex is drawing thin if doug has a hand like AK, Aces or even Kings but if Alec always folds a hand like jacks everytime there's one over he's too exploitable and it's a little too tight so he calls to play a turn . turn is a 3 of diamonds putting two flush draws on the board but not typically improving anyone's hand besides maybe doug if he was bluffing with KQ of diamonds, 10 Jack of diamonds etc . and so when the turn is a blank and Alec feels he's possibly good on the flop he's still ahead of Doug's range here. Alec is losing to QQ, KK, AK, and AJ (but it's good that Alec has two Jack's for blockers) , and any weird Ax suited hands that doug could have (which is a lot) . However, if you think about it doug 3 bet with 8 6 suited... therefore his range could be any combination of 86 suited, 87 suited, 89 suited, 910 suited, J10 suited, QJ suited, KQ suited, maybe even 76 suited, . So when Alec is still ahead of a lot of Doug's range and knows doug is capable to make this play with hands like 8 6 suited . Doug bets 3175 on the turn about 70% pot which is a good polarized bet so Alec has to call 3175 to potentially win 11075 he's getting a little over 3 to 1 and still ahead of his range plus he knows if a Jack comes he's only going to lose to one hand (maybe besides the jack of diamonds) but even if it brings a backdoor flush Alec is still good so there's implied odds as well if his opponents bluffing he can potentially win more on the river and if a Jack comes and doug has a hand like AK then he could potentially stack doug. so he calls and takes a river, river is a K bricking the flush draws and so when Alec checks for showdown if doug had a hand like KQ or something he would probably just check with showdown I don't think he would go for thin value and put torelli on exactly 10's, JJ,s maybe QQ's although Alec might 4 bet Queens but maybe not if they're super deep and if doug has a hand like 86 Alec can let him continue to bluff ( and the stacks are wrong when in the display) so when doug bets the river Alec has to decide if it's strictly only a strong Value bet with a hand like AA, AK, AQ, KK, maybe even AJ . so at that point you just have to go in the tank and decide and Alec made the right call ! hope this helps I'm just an amateur I'm sure he'll explain it better lol
First of all, of course this is shady and I'm glad the floor handled it the way they did. However, a thought on your analysis of the possible effectiveness of the move. I think what you may have missed was the real goal of Freitez. I think he wasn't looking to get a minraise called, he was probably hoping to get reraised by a marginal holding like KQ, or better yet for his opponent to take advantage of his 'mistake and reraise as a bluff. What do you think?
Matt Davis it is just not right. although deception is part of the game, but this like making an extra play when you're turn to act is already over. it just isnt fair.
I 100% agree with you that this move was not right and not fair. I was just pointing out that Alec seemed to miss what the guy was hoping to accomplish.
When the floor tells me he's an angleshooter, I'm folding 100%. But I will definitely check behind on the turn. When you bet 200k into a 230k pot and he calls without thinking... you have to know the BB has a decent king. it's unlikely he is calling with 24 or 46 or K7 or a mid pocket pair. When you check the turn, you know he will value bet the river. If you make a big raise (and with the stack sizes, I'd like be pushing it all in), you will likely win a huge pot. Betting the turn will get you a call, but the best you'll get on the river is a check call on a smaller sized bet. If you push all in after a check on the river, it isn't likely he will call there. Overall, at the final table, you are looking to knock guys out when the opportunity presents itself, and the best way to do that is a check behind on the turn. Finally, at some of the casinos where I play, I have seen regular angleshooters get thrown out. In my home casino, I am 100% sure Freitez would get thrown out there (for angleshooting twice in the same tournament). I don't know the rule on whether he'd get paid out or not, however.
Love the video, Alec. I also like that you are trying different things, but in that vein I must add I also preferred old style video introduction. However, please continue refining it because while I dont like this one I might like the next change you make. ;) In addition, while I know you might be cautious about making a video about your hand with Doug at the Bike, it is evident that lots of your subscribers want to hear your input. You might be able to collaborate with Doug on a joint video, which would be something new both of you guys could try. Doug played his hand pretty good, showing a major set of ballz, and you withstood the tremendous pressure and found the correct decision, so you both deserve kudos. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Yanayt handled this very well. Whenever your opponent take weird and unusual lines, you should revert to the GTO line rather than trying to guess, what they have, or what their motives are. Just because, Freitas had been doing this twice with the nuts, does not mean, he would not do it as a bluff. And facing a min-raise of his pretty small bet, Yanayt did not need to win very often to justify calling.
Alec Torelli, Fill your life with freedom, excitement & choice. (light in the back ground, upbeat background music) TBH This is one of the worst poker production I've ever seen. I understand the psychology behind it. You are tyring your best to create a positive image, but this is not a video to advocate drug addicts to go to rehab.
I have been in spots similar. If I had been Yanayt, I would have turned my hand over after he said he meant to just call. Maybe the floor would have made him just call instead of raise. That way you dint have to give him any more chips and you get to see his hand. The floor couldn't penalize you for showing your hand because you could argue that he said call, even though he said raise and then changed his mind. You sure don't want to get raised there with 1 pair.
Way to talk over it and not show the climactic finish to the action when he calls and the table all collectively groans at the guy and gives him shit. And I honestly can't believe you still do the corny inspirational music between each street. Hilarious lol
I do not understand, why didn't the other guy folded. From what I understood the manager practically told him that the other guy is doing that when he has a high hand.
Imagine how BOSS it would’ve been if the tournament director was like uhh wait hold on so freitez its up to you do you want it to be a raise or call? And there’s NO WAY he’ll say CALL he’s gonna have to say I meant to raise and then the director can look at the other guy and be like “ya so it stands as a raise. I wasn’t going to give him the option anyway but at least now u know that he meant to RAISE”.
I just watched that hand where you folded AQ to Harry's shove all in on 3,4,Q flop. Incredible fold, since Harry had 33 but can you explain what your thought process was on that hand? IDK if folding Top pair/Top kicker is usually the correct play there especially against Harry who can be loose at times....I was thinking maybe you believed someone else was slow-playing the set, from earlier position then Harry....? You've been playing great lately, the call with JJ against Doug was obviously incredible as well.
One angle shoot to watch out for is something that happened to me in a tournament. I was in early position and it came down to heads up with the button on the turn. I bet and the button calls. As soon as the river hits, the button throws down a big bet which makes noise from the chips clicking together. I said, "I didn't even act yet." The dealer said it was still my turn and that I could bet or check. I checked. His bet was now the action and then I folded. He threw down a busted flush draw. Watch out for these type of players, they're out there.
Neadless to say he showed the bluff to tilt you, and hopefully you did not take the bait. In my opinion casinos and tournaments should not tolerate this kind of behaviour. If you are pretending to make a mistake to gain an edge, thats not fair play. In my opinion, if you were playing a cash game, your opponent should have been asked to leave for the evening and warned, that a repeat occurence would get him banned from playing in the casino. Maybe the casino lose a customer, but the wast majority of their customers want a fair playing environment, so they probably gain two others in the long run.
I don't see how this is any different from a reverse tell. Only real difference is it's out loud. The loudmouth Pom from the last WSOP basically did the same thing five times every hand he was in. How is this different from the player asking for stack sizes or the player who makes a show of looking at the clock then bombs it? Then the floor comes over and spells out the guys strategy? That's like collusion... or discussing what to do with another player while involved in a hand.
WTF are you talking about? If you limit Frietez to only having 65 (his actual hand), then he can't have KK or 66 either. Quad 5s are the absolute nuts on this board.
guy, calm down and fix mind. If you talking about/analyze hands you should consider the perspektive you do. You really think i am not aware of what the theoretical best hand is?? Poor.
In this instance, as a suit I would rule that the action stands as a call, and allow the player to now insist he wants to raise. Then remind him and the entire tournament that he has a history of this 'cheat', and use the word, and when he shows a powerful hand, penalize him 1 hour, for cheating. Specifying, that the penalty is ONLY for cheating. If any other issue arises, I would then disqualify him. I would understand at all times that the cameras were on me, and communicate to all after this that the rules are always designed to protect the integrity of the game. No one else in poker tournament history deserves a dq more than this guy, and the team who signalled their hands in the Chartoos (spelling? ) tournament years ago. He is their equal.
I was once playing in a tournament and saw a guy at my table do something as bad. Guy A makes turn bet (big). The douche (B) starts to slide large pile of chips in, pulls them back and says "actually I fold" (doesnt toss them into the muck but over the line close to him). The floor is called and the ruling of course is that he has to commit the chips and gets his hand back. River comes down and A puts in another big bet and the Douche (B) raises all in. He had a full house the whole time and KNEW the floor would give him his cards back. Bigger dick move than what this guy did IMO but like AT said the guy in this video could have made more chips in the hand and chose to angle instead.
Should be titles "Worst Call in Recorded Tournament History" instead. The floor director basically instructs him to fold, his friends all told him that he only does this move with the stone nuts and yet he still called? Lol, did he want the guy to flip his cards over? It's insane. Find me a worse call than that on the internet.
if they see hes doing it a lot AND with the nuts than give him a warning, if he does it again hes out of tourney or receives a 2 hour no-play penalty OR better yet gets beat up by everyone at the table. This is BS if he does this this deep in a tourney he knows what hes doing when he makes a "mistake" like that....
floor shouldve done something after the guy shows his full house.. they told the other guy he does this angle shoot when he has the nuts and they are aware of it.. he's already been warned about this so i believe they should take action against him.. not talking about a stupid round penalty here..
Guess it depends on the rule of the tournament. In the WSP main event they can punish players by letting them sit out, while their stack blind away. That would have been a suitable answer to this kind of behaviour IMO.
You fucked up Alec big time. Only way to make amends is return the extra 10k and post an apology video. Everybody makes mistakes...you don't want this to fuck up the rest of your life...own up to it.
Yeah anytime someone abuses poker etiquette I have no issues with instant karma happening to them. Furthermore, is this an angle by me? I have AdJd in the SB with. One limper from the HJ. I raised and got one caller. The BB. This is an older guy been drinking White Russians the whole time I was at the table. So he says before the flop comes out "check-it down...". The flop was a Ten high two diamond board. I say "I'll check it once." He checks and turn is a favorable (Andrew neme) card. It's the 2d. So this time I bet out and he complains that we "agreed to check it down." So he calls the bet. The river doesn't pair the board and because of the commotion going on with another player I decided to jam all in for a huge over-bet. He yells..."WTF MAN!?" I say to him "what? I never said I would check it down. I said I'll check once." So hes tanking with 10/7 off and Now the other commotion around the table is picking up because he is now being an asshole to other players. My question is was I wrong in this hand by poker etiquette? I merely thought I could get the "drunk tilted guy" to call off his stack light. He ultimately cAlled and someone laughed. That pissed him off and he erupted with insults. FU and called the guy the N word...crazy Vegas poker at the FLAMINGO.
I saw that call against Doug was great but he was raising with a lot of weak hands. But once you called turn I knew you was going to call river just made me sweat it for a min
One thing I have not seen talked about much is that Yanayt could think that he is facing a reverse angle shoot. With this mean that Freitez might think that Yanayt heard of his angleshooting earlier in the tournament and that Freitez is trying to pull a cheap bluff with lets say JcQc or some other hand he decided to give up with. He is getting a good price on his bluff and, if he is right and his opponent knows about him doing this, he might even get him to fold a strong hand like KQo because with the history it looks so strong. For this reason I think Yanayt has to call and this might be what he is thinking as well. Yanayt obviously can not think that Freitez would predict the tournament director stepping in and telling him about it but he could still think that Yanayt might know about it, considering it is the final table of the tournament and Freitez might assume that Yanayt informed himself about his opposition and heard the stories about the angleshoot bluffing. Also from a GTO point of view it is an easy call , folding a hand this strong vs a minreraise in this spot would be a very big herofold. Also a very disgusting thing to do from Freitez especially because he does not even stand much to gain compared to just doing a "normal" reraise which as Torelli said would probably have been even more profitable at least in this situation.
its a sick angle, they should be allowed to disqualify someone for intentionally abusing the rules. If this guy did it multiple times and was warned. Kick his ass out.. no money, divide his chips equally among remaining players, add his cash to the remaining prize pool. Also. Do your research on the tournament finish. Let the viewers know the final outcome instead of guessing.. it looks a bit lazy.
come on Alec, time for the JJ hand with DP, it's interesting that neither of you has done the vid yet, are you guys hoping the other one will go first?
That kind of angle shooting should be grounds for tournament kick out. Seriously. You do it once, ok. Repeated angle shooting should be grounds for tournament disqualification or knockout. The director should tell the angle shooter "if you turn over a hand close to the nuts again you will be disqualified" then you will see his reaction and he would stop doing it. Not sure why poker tournaments don't have disqualification rules to prevent angle shooting
The WPT has a rule, which allow the floor personal to force a player to sit out for 1 round or more, while his blinds and antes are still posted. Apparently this tournament did not have this rule, because then I am sure, it would have been used. This would probably already be enough to discourage this kind of behaviour, because even if he win some chips from his move, he lose them again, and his opportunity to chip up, while he is sitting out.
Alec, do you really think Freitez would bomb the flop with a mid pair like JJ or QQ? I don't think so, that's why I believe going for value on the river is kind of marginal here... I think we rarely get called by A high in this spot. Also, why am I not amazed at a venezuelan being a dick? Holy crap, I hate living in this cesspool
Looks like you're going to need to update your title.....
the whole 'corny music' and promoting in between talking and showing action is brutal.. i didnt mind it the first few videos i watched but now its bad
This is the first video I've watched and the cringe was painful
Knowing now what Alec did later in his career, this must be one of the most ironic videos on TH-cam.
Came to see this comment. Hypocrite he is.
I'm out of the loop, care to explain?
"no speak english" LMAO
That was hilarious I like scum bags they are entertaining
this aged well. alec torelli talking about other people angling lmfao. what a fucking joke.
this happy/high life music in the background is very annoying alec
It makes me happy =/
I agree
You'll get used to it, and then come to enjoy it. It's peaceful, and this is a fun channel.
OldieBones sorry but the only reason I unsubbed, was due to the music in the background as well as those crazy effects within the video. It doesnt make him more authentic.
agree. annoying. sometimes less is more.
Tip:
Get rid of the corny transitions
between each street.
remember that time you did that thing with your chips
didnt you hide chips
Lol yes he did, but hey listen up he's teaching poker etiquette 😂😂😂
Pot: "The kettle is not only black but he's even gotten darker from spending time under the sun"
Kettle: " 🖕🏿🌚🖕🏿 "
what about the sick call with JJ against Doug ?
that call was so sick that even doug was allmost happy about it.
Its call youtube money, doesn't matter he didn't need to right a lot of the time
Doug has to look happy no matter what! good image is gto
xMrBoltActionx "TH-cam money" with only 24K subscribers 🤔
there wasnt an angle shoot...
Sickest Click Bait in Poker History!
That's is a sick angle. However, I heard there was a kid one time who went to bring some paperwork to one of his professors. When he walked in the professor was playing poker with some judges. So the guy walks up and starts betting for his professor in the middle of the hand. One of the other players piped up and said, "you've seen half the hand how the fuck are you betting into us?" The kid says "well we know what we have and we know what you have." Now another player chimes in and says, "the fuck you know what we all have." So the kid proceeds to tell every player at the table their exact hands. This rattles the other players and they all fold their hands and ask the professor what he had, and he says, "nothing but a busted straight." True story.
Cool story bro
I know, right. Thanks
How did the kid know all the players hands?
Hanging around, hanging around. Kid's got alligator blood. Can't get rid of him...
The kid knew all the player's hands because the hands were in the script and he memorized his lines before doing the scene :)
I think you need to remake this video and use the footage of your angleshoot on Wolf.
Hi Chadg,
I trust that you'll be able to see the difference between an intentional angle and an honest mistake.
Cheers,
Alec
I really hope is was. You and Daniel Negreanu are my favorite poker players. Also your videos really helped my poker game so thank you for the effort you put into them.
I watched the live stream of this and yes it was bad.
Had a similar thing happen in a deepstack event at my local casino.
Bad guy shoves river. I look over a his chips and he moves his hands away to let me see his stack. It was not much more than my river bet. I call and the bad guy opens his hand to show me he had three larger chips in his closed fist. Effectively tripling his shove. I called the floor and complained that his chips were not visible and should be removed from the event. Floor decided that I did not ask the dealer for a count and therefore had to call the whole amount.
This type of stunt earns you fist to your face when you step out of the casino. What an asshole move.
Sounds like something Alec would do
Hypothetical poker etiquette question:
Suppose you raise to 3 big blinds UTG, and someone behind you reraises to 14 big blinds, and now the big blind is tanking and looks like he is considering shoving all in.
If you have something like Q-J suited and have already decided to fold, do you have to pretend like you're interested in the hand the entire time that the big blind is tanking?
If you have pocket aces and you want the big blind to shove all in, can you feign disinterest in the hand to encourage a shove?
Hey Alec, you know what I think you should have done in this hand?
Talk about the JJ call down with Doug.
Guess I'm the only one? Prob.
It's coming! A little anticipation...
Hahaha just saw it. Awesome. I was just giving you shit.
was a nice call - i think, for the most part, the situation (the play on both ends, doug and alec) is quite common in mid-high stakes games...definitely not straight forward, but not really noteworthy - but i suppose the video watching stakeholders don't view it as common? (thinking out loud)
David Chin I'll respectfully disagree. I think that neither player took a standard line. I don't think most players are 3 betting and emptying the clip with no equity, like Doug. I think from Alec a check-fold on the turn would be standard.
Not that either play was bad but really I can't see it as standard at all.
But hey, I could be wrong.
you're right, most players aren't blasting like doug did here, but, from my experience in mid-high nlh, this hand wouldn't be noteworthy or of discussion amongst the regs later on or even post hand at the table
I just saw this hand on a different channel, a few days ago. I liked how it was announced that he had already done this earlier, and that he had the nuts when doing so. That's a type play that could get you killed back in the earlier days of Poker..
The tournament director should have warned him previously that if he did it again, he would be disqualified. This is within the authority of the director, in order to protect the integrity of the game and the reputation of the tournament
Alec tell me how bad of an angle shoot this is: flip comes I raise he re raises me all in. He looks down avoiding all eye contact. I fold throw my hand to the dealer dealer doesn't say anything he doesn't notice. I then say I call after I muck he shows ak and we argue how I should pay him for like 5 minutes before floor comes
Why didn't you post the reaction of the table after the call? thats the best part!
Hi thanks for speaking english. Thanks for your interptation .i like the way you explain poker. Can you write a guide or a book on pdf file? Thanks
Pot. Kettle. Black.
this has been done here in Vancouver, in cash games, , enjoy your call in poker situations, good video, thanks
Great job Mr Director...great Job...
Why did you call Doug down with your JJ?
David Yei doug 3 bets from position pre flop a lot of the time and plays his buttons fairly aggressive so JJ is still ahead of a lot of Doug's 3 bet range,
flop comes only one over card with the Ace and it's a pretty dry board (7 Ace 2) two spades.
yes Alex is drawing thin if doug has a hand like AK, Aces or even Kings but if Alec always folds a hand like jacks everytime there's one over he's too exploitable and it's a little too tight so he calls to play a turn .
turn is a 3 of diamonds putting two flush draws on the board but not typically improving anyone's hand besides maybe doug if he was bluffing with KQ of diamonds, 10 Jack of diamonds etc .
and so when the turn is a blank and Alec feels he's possibly good on the flop he's still ahead of Doug's range here. Alec is losing to QQ, KK, AK, and AJ (but it's good that Alec has two Jack's for blockers) , and any weird Ax suited hands that doug could have (which is a lot) .
However, if you think about it doug 3 bet with 8 6 suited... therefore his range could be any combination of 86 suited, 87 suited, 89 suited, 910 suited, J10 suited, QJ suited, KQ suited, maybe even 76 suited, . So when Alec is still ahead of a lot of Doug's range and knows doug is capable to make this play with hands like 8 6 suited .
Doug bets 3175 on the turn about 70% pot which is a good polarized bet so Alec has to call 3175 to potentially win 11075 he's getting a little over 3 to 1 and still ahead of his range plus he knows if a Jack comes he's only going to lose to one hand (maybe besides the jack of diamonds) but even if it brings a backdoor flush Alec is still good so there's implied odds as well if his opponents bluffing he can potentially win more on the river and if a Jack comes and doug has a hand like AK then he could potentially stack doug.
so he calls and takes a river,
river is a K bricking the flush draws and so when Alec checks for showdown if doug had a hand like KQ or something he would probably just check with showdown I don't think he would go for thin value and put torelli on exactly 10's, JJ,s maybe QQ's although Alec might 4 bet Queens but maybe not if they're super deep and if doug has a hand like 86 Alec can let him continue to bluff ( and the stacks are wrong when in the display)
so when doug bets the river Alec has to decide if it's strictly only a strong Value bet with a hand like AA, AK, AQ, KK, maybe even AJ .
so at that point you just have to go in the tank and decide and Alec made the right call ! hope this helps I'm just an amateur I'm sure he'll explain it better lol
Are you Ryan Fee?
Hevibasso who me ? lol
I would fold the river. I can't beat A or K
Rob B they were fairly deep though , the graphics had it wrong they had more behind idk how much
Can you expose yourself when you angleshot?
First of all, of course this is shady and I'm glad the floor handled it the way they did. However, a thought on your analysis of the possible effectiveness of the move. I think what you may have missed was the real goal of Freitez. I think he wasn't looking to get a minraise called, he was probably hoping to get reraised by a marginal holding like KQ, or better yet for his opponent to take advantage of his 'mistake and reraise as a bluff. What do you think?
Matt Davis it is just not right. although deception is part of the game, but this like making an extra play when you're turn to act is already over. it just isnt fair.
Matt Davis this is* it is* sorry
I 100% agree with you that this move was not right and not fair. I was just pointing out that Alec seemed to miss what the guy was hoping to accomplish.
I wonder what the tourney rules say about drilling a fist into an oponents jaw for being a shithead.. by the way, Freitez went on to win it.
mosshark what tournament was it?
EPT Grand Final Madrid May 2011.
you get DQ'd
The more I learn about how many times he did this. The more I feel he should have to forfeit the hand.
Make it a rule and not etiquette.
Did you shorten the intro up for our friend Doug for needling you on LATB?
When the floor tells me he's an angleshooter, I'm folding 100%.
But I will definitely check behind on the turn. When you bet 200k into a 230k pot and he calls without thinking... you have to know the BB has a decent king. it's unlikely he is calling with 24 or 46 or K7 or a mid pocket pair. When you check the turn, you know he will value bet the river. If you make a big raise (and with the stack sizes, I'd like be pushing it all in), you will likely win a huge pot. Betting the turn will get you a call, but the best you'll get on the river is a check call on a smaller sized bet. If you push all in after a check on the river, it isn't likely he will call there. Overall, at the final table, you are looking to knock guys out when the opportunity presents itself, and the best way to do that is a check behind on the turn.
Finally, at some of the casinos where I play, I have seen regular angleshooters get thrown out. In my home casino, I am 100% sure Freitez would get thrown out there (for angleshooting twice in the same tournament). I don't know the rule on whether he'd get paid out or not, however.
Or, when you keep your big chips behind then lie about it to the floor. on T.V. no less.
Love the video, Alec. I also like that you are trying different things, but in that vein I must add I also preferred old style video introduction. However, please continue refining it because while I dont like this one I might like the next change you make. ;)
In addition, while I know you might be cautious about making a video about your hand with Doug at the Bike, it is evident that lots of your subscribers want to hear your input.
You might be able to collaborate with Doug on a joint video, which would be something new both of you guys could try.
Doug played his hand pretty good, showing a major set of ballz, and you withstood the tremendous pressure and found the correct decision, so you both deserve kudos.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
What a dirty play, but I am glad to be aware of it now. Thank you Alec.
Huge Angle Shoot!! Very Clear
Yanayt handled this very well. Whenever your opponent take weird and unusual lines, you should revert to the GTO line rather than trying to guess, what they have, or what their motives are. Just because, Freitas had been doing this twice with the nuts, does not mean, he would not do it as a bluff. And facing a min-raise of his pretty small bet, Yanayt did not need to win very often to justify calling.
Alec Torelli, Fill your life with freedom, excitement & choice. (light in the back ground, upbeat background music)
TBH This is one of the worst poker production I've ever seen. I understand the psychology behind it. You are tyring your best to create a positive image, but this is not a video to advocate drug addicts to go to rehab.
I have been in spots similar. If I had been Yanayt, I would have turned my hand over after he said he meant to just call. Maybe the floor would have made him just call instead of raise. That way you dint have to give him any more chips and you get to see his hand. The floor couldn't penalize you for showing your hand because you could argue that he said call, even though he said raise and then changed his mind. You sure don't want to get raised there with 1 pair.
The problem is, that would be against the rules. If a player say "raise", he have to raise at least the minimum.
Way to talk over it and not show the climactic finish to the action when he calls and the table all collectively groans at the guy and gives him shit. And I honestly can't believe you still do the corny inspirational music between each street. Hilarious lol
He wants to talk about some poker etiquette... i love the irony.
Obvious Trump supporter is obvious
I do not understand, why didn't the other guy folded. From what I understood the manager practically told him that the other guy is doing that when he has a high hand.
Alec, cheers !
I think if I want to learn more about poker , I want / need to learn from you .
You should make a new Angle Shoot video starting Alec Torelli
Imagine how BOSS it would’ve been if the tournament director was like uhh wait hold on so freitez its up to you do you want it to be a raise or call? And there’s NO WAY he’ll say CALL he’s gonna have to say I meant to raise and then the director can look at the other guy and be like “ya so it stands as a raise. I wasn’t going to give him the option anyway but at least now u know that he meant to RAISE”.
This video has been rehashed into 900 videos. The original content that is.
I just watched that hand where you folded AQ to Harry's shove all in on 3,4,Q flop. Incredible fold, since Harry had 33 but can you explain what your thought process was on that hand? IDK if folding Top pair/Top kicker is usually the correct play there especially against Harry who can be loose at times....I was thinking maybe you believed someone else was slow-playing the set, from earlier position then Harry....? You've been playing great lately, the call with JJ against Doug was obviously incredible as well.
Lmao, you should be showing yours. Cheat.
you are the real angle shooter Torelli. #TorelliGTFO
One angle shoot to watch out for is something that happened to me in a tournament. I was in early position and it came down to heads up with the button on the turn. I bet and the button calls. As soon as the river hits, the button throws down a big bet which makes noise from the chips clicking together. I said, "I didn't even act yet." The dealer said it was still my turn and that I could bet or check. I checked. His bet was now the action and then I folded. He threw down a busted flush draw. Watch out for these type of players, they're out there.
Neadless to say he showed the bluff to tilt you, and hopefully you did not take the bait. In my opinion casinos and tournaments should not tolerate this kind of behaviour. If you are pretending to make a mistake to gain an edge, thats not fair play. In my opinion, if you were playing a cash game, your opponent should have been asked to leave for the evening and warned, that a repeat occurence would get him banned from playing in the casino. Maybe the casino lose a customer, but the wast majority of their customers want a fair playing environment, so they probably gain two others in the long run.
what would you do alex if you see him on your table in a tournament
Still waiting on ur thoughts on jj vs doug.
I don't see how this is any different from a reverse tell. Only real difference is it's out loud. The loudmouth Pom from the last WSOP basically did the same thing five times every hand he was in.
How is this different from the player asking for stack sizes or the player who makes a show of looking at the clock then bombs it? Then the floor comes over and spells out the guys strategy? That's like collusion... or discussing what to do with another player while involved in a hand.
Great video. Very well handled by Thomas Kremser.
When he has priors you can level yourself super hard in this spot.
the nuts are KK, 2nd nuts 66 by Freitez holding 65
thats right
You are close. Pocket 5s is actually the nuts, which makes quad 5s when including the community cards.
not by holding 65 ;)
WTF are you talking about? If you limit Frietez to only having 65 (his actual hand), then he can't have KK or 66 either. Quad 5s are the absolute nuts on this board.
guy, calm down and fix mind. If you talking about/analyze hands you should consider the perspektive you do. You really think i am not aware of what the theoretical best hand is?? Poor.
In this instance, as a suit I would rule that the action stands as a call, and allow the player to now insist he wants to raise. Then remind him and the entire tournament that he has a history of this 'cheat', and use the word, and when he shows a powerful hand, penalize him 1 hour, for cheating. Specifying, that the penalty is ONLY for cheating. If any other issue arises, I would then disqualify him. I would understand at all times that the cameras were on me, and communicate to all after this that the rules are always designed to protect the integrity of the game. No one else in poker tournament history deserves a dq more than this guy, and the team who signalled their hands in the Chartoos (spelling? ) tournament years ago. He is their equal.
"I hope this guys broke" LMAOOO
Freitez went on to win the tournament and 2.4 million dollars. Sick..
Unfortunatly in the real world bad guys dont always lose, like they do in the movies.
He got lucky ...
I disagree with the comments below. I say your angle shoot on poker night in America was 2nd to this one.
What chips did he put in when he announced raise?
Also is KK not the nuts? Sorry if amateur question
Hey Torelli why the long face?
How do you not know if you are butchering his name, when his name is verbally said in the same video you are reviewing?!?!?!
probably wouldve kept watching had you not stopped the video to put a picture of yourself 3 minutes in for no reason
Nice name! I don't see many other Alecs
I preferred the old intro. The music on the new intro is super tilting. Still enjoying the content.
Brilliant :D
this is ironic
I was once playing in a tournament and saw a guy at my table do something as bad. Guy A makes turn bet (big). The douche (B) starts to slide large pile of chips in, pulls them back and says "actually I fold" (doesnt toss them into the muck but over the line close to him). The floor is called and the ruling of course is that he has to commit the chips and gets his hand back. River comes down and A puts in another big bet and the Douche (B) raises all in. He had a full house the whole time and KNEW the floor would give him his cards back. Bigger dick move than what this guy did IMO but like AT said the guy in this video could have made more chips in the hand and chose to angle instead.
I know disss dude aint tripping on someone else shooting angles!
for anyone interested, Ivan Freitez went on to win the tournament, 2.2mil
"He can't have any of those hands." Famous last words.
Torreli has a secret life that involves large cucumbers
Pot meet kettle
Should be titles "Worst Call in Recorded Tournament History" instead. The floor director basically instructs him to fold, his friends all told him that he only does this move with the stone nuts and yet he still called? Lol, did he want the guy to flip his cards over? It's insane. Find me a worse call than that on the internet.
if they see hes doing it a lot AND with the nuts than give him a warning, if he does it again hes out of tourney or receives a 2 hour no-play penalty OR better yet gets beat up by everyone at the table. This is BS if he does this this deep in a tourney he knows what hes doing when he makes a "mistake" like that....
alec you da best plus you good human keep up the good work much success amd happiness salute from charlotte nc
floor shouldve done something after the guy shows his full house.. they told the other guy he does this angle shoot when he has the nuts and they are aware of it.. he's already been warned about this so i believe they should take action against him.. not talking about a stupid round penalty here..
Since he had been warned before, couldn't the floor call his hand dead as penalty for repeated angle shooting?
Guess it depends on the rule of the tournament. In the WSP main event they can punish players by letting them sit out, while their stack blind away. That would have been a suitable answer to this kind of behaviour IMO.
What's up Alec, it's guys torelli
Look who is talking about angel Shooting
You fucked up Alec big time. Only way to make amends is return the extra 10k and post an apology video. Everybody makes mistakes...you don't want this to fuck up the rest of your life...own up to it.
oh man crazy hand
Yeah anytime someone abuses poker etiquette I have no issues with instant karma happening to them.
Furthermore, is this an angle by me? I have AdJd in the SB with. One limper from the HJ. I raised and got one caller. The BB. This is an older guy been drinking White Russians the whole time I was at the table.
So he says before the flop comes out "check-it down...". The flop was a Ten high two diamond board. I say "I'll check it once." He checks and turn is a favorable (Andrew neme) card. It's the 2d. So this time I bet out and he complains that we "agreed to check it down." So he calls the bet. The river doesn't pair the board and because of the commotion going on with another player I decided to jam all in for a huge over-bet. He yells..."WTF MAN!?" I say to him "what? I never said I would check it down. I said I'll check once." So hes tanking with 10/7 off and Now the other commotion around the table is picking up because he is now being an asshole to other players.
My question is was I wrong in this hand by poker etiquette? I merely thought I could get the "drunk tilted guy" to call off his stack light. He ultimately cAlled and someone laughed. That pissed him off and he erupted with insults. FU and called the guy the N word...crazy Vegas poker at the FLAMINGO.
The worst thing is that this guy ended up winning that tournament
Nice to hear!
I saw that call against Doug was great but he was raising with a lot of weak hands. But once you called turn I knew you was going to call river just made me sweat it for a min
If JJ vs 86 isn't up Monday I'm not watching any more vids.
One thing I have not seen talked about much is that Yanayt could think that he is facing a reverse angle shoot. With this mean that Freitez might think that Yanayt heard of his angleshooting earlier in the tournament and that Freitez is trying to pull a cheap bluff with lets say JcQc or some other hand he decided to give up with. He is getting a good price on his bluff and, if he is right and his opponent knows about him doing this, he might even get him to fold a strong hand like KQo because with the history it looks so strong. For this reason I think Yanayt has to call and this might be what he is thinking as well.
Yanayt obviously can not think that Freitez would predict the tournament director stepping in and telling him about it but he could still think that Yanayt might know about it, considering it is the final table of the tournament and Freitez might assume that Yanayt informed himself about his opposition and heard the stories about the angleshoot bluffing.
Also from a GTO point of view it is an easy call , folding a hand this strong vs a minreraise in this spot would be a very big herofold.
Also a very disgusting thing to do from Freitez especially because he does not even stand much to gain compared to just doing a "normal" reraise which as Torelli said would probably have been even more profitable at least in this situation.
I would slow roll the fuck out of this guy
its a sick angle, they should be allowed to disqualify someone for intentionally abusing the rules. If this guy did it multiple times and was warned. Kick his ass out.. no money, divide his chips equally among remaining players, add his cash to the remaining prize pool.
Also. Do your research on the tournament finish. Let the viewers know the final outcome instead of guessing.. it looks a bit lazy.
The more realistic approach, and what is actually done, is to give penalty round, where the offenders stack is slowly blinded away, as he sits out.
Was the villain left-handed though..? That would change everything
Whats worse is that his opponent would have called a much larger raise if he doesnt do that silly move.
Floor doesnt have the right to make him min-raise, he said raise so he is allowed to raise as much as he wants
I'm definitely trying this with the nuts haha
the sick thing is.. he actually went to win the whole tournament..
another trainee??
come on Alec, time for the JJ hand with DP, it's interesting that neither of you has done the vid yet, are you guys hoping the other one will go first?
Roberto Caprio doug has done a video already
thanks Ric Poltras, sneaky doug actually fooled me with QQ hand false start :-)
That kind of angle shooting should be grounds for tournament kick out. Seriously. You do it once, ok. Repeated angle shooting should be grounds for tournament disqualification or knockout. The director should tell the angle shooter "if you turn over a hand close to the nuts again you will be disqualified" then you will see his reaction and he would stop doing it. Not sure why poker tournaments don't have disqualification rules to prevent angle shooting
The WPT has a rule, which allow the floor personal to force a player to sit out for 1 round or more, while his blinds and antes are still posted. Apparently this tournament did not have this rule, because then I am sure, it would have been used. This would probably already be enough to discourage this kind of behaviour, because even if he win some chips from his move, he lose them again, and his opportunity to chip up, while he is sitting out.
Sick thing is Freitez ended up winning the tourney
Alec, do you really think Freitez would bomb the flop with a mid pair like JJ or QQ? I don't think so, that's why I believe going for value on the river is kind of marginal here... I think we rarely get called by A high in this spot.
Also, why am I not amazed at a venezuelan being a dick? Holy crap, I hate living in this cesspool
Who else was hoping, please be any other video.
Seen it to many times :)