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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2022
- How a ski lodge became trapped in a border dispute.
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Italy’s land border cuts through the highest altitudes of the Alps - crossing snowfields, mountain peaks, and massive glaciers. For centuries, the watershed line (which marks the divide where water flows either north or south off of the mountains) served as a natural boundary between Italy and its European neighbors. But beginning in the 1980s, geographic surveyors noticed something: The glaciers whose peaks had long marked the watershed line were retreating … and moving Italy’s border along with them.
The only inhabited place nearby - an Italian ski lodge called the Rifugio Guide del Cervino - was caught right in the middle. Since then, Italy, Switzerland, and Austria have piloted a new kind of “mobile border” agreement, where boundary lines move with the changing landscape. Their solution might prove crucial as climate change reshapes water-based borders around the world.
Correction: the watershed line at 00:41 was mislabeled and drawn incorrectly. We’ve fixed the error to reflect the correct watershed boundaries.
Further reading:
Before the book, Marco debuted an interactive installation at the Venice Biennale called “Italian Limes” - Limes is Latin for boundary - with a GPS-powered drawing machine that traced the shifting border in real time:
www.italianlimes.net/
Read more about Marco, Elisa, and Andrea’s book here: www.arch.columbia.edu/books/c...
The historical maps we projected are from swisstopo, Switzerland's national mapping agency. They have a great interactive map tool you can check out here: map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en&top...
And read more from swisstopo about the border changes:
www.swisstopo.admin.ch/en/kno...
This New Yorker piece by Zoey Poll is a beautiful deep dive into the story of the Rifugio: www.newyorker.com/news/letter...
And so is this Wall Street Journal story by Eric Sylvers: www.wsj.com/articles/italys-a...
Lastly, hear from the owner of the Rifugio himself - and how the border line uncertainty is affecting his restaurant renovation plans:
• Moving borders - #TheA...
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In a previous version, the watershed line at 00:41 was mislabeled and drawn incorrectly. We've fixed the error to reflect the correct watershed boundaries.
That. was. fast work!
Their is one more error...u showed wrong map of India.
Contact number
I like you
Wow this is so good. I was just on this border a couple weeks ago so this explanation feels very real to me right now.
Funny seeing you here, guess you miss Vox
Johnny is upset he missed this border
Wait didn't they cancel Borders? I like the old host way better.
@@TerryBytheway they did, Johnny Harris, the top of this thread, is the old host. He kept the theme going on his own channel, 110% recommended binge watching his entire channel
meow
I think the borders shifting a few hundred meters is the least important impact of glacier melting in the alps
Yes, precisely.
Yes, but it humanizes climate change in a very very tangible way. It is very hard to claim that this doesn't matter to somebody (or anybody) or is part of some sort of short-term cyclical change.
Biggest impact: absolutely not
Useful story for illustrating the oft-ignored complexity of the big picture in a way that people can figure out how to care: BINGO!
It is important, you could be living in Italy yesterday but wake up in Switzerland the next.
This might not seem much to you but that ought to not be a pleasant experience for anyone.
The atmosphere severely lacks carbon. Warming is supposed to happen.
@@meatbleed Not at this rate. The Late Cretaceous Period was ice-free (no ice anywhere on the planet), but humans are warming the planet at a higher rate than the rest of history. Change is meant to happen not in 150 years, but over millennia. We should actually be getting closer to a colder period, but carbon and methane emissions have caused the world to unnaturally warm (on average, because parts of the Atlantic, the American South, and Antarctica are actually cooling), especially in the Arctic.
Switzerland is so neutral, they annex Italian ski lodges without doing anything.
It's cultural victory
@@wrash geografic victory, because they have the High ground
@@jacopofolin6400 you underestimate italian power
@@ajejebrazorf9971 you were a Brother for me (Obi the Ticino Canton)
Looks like Switzerland 🇨🇭 is not as peaceful as it looks like. Annexing neighboring restaurants, what’s next? A Full scale invasion of the entire ski resort? Visit Switzerland before it visits you.
UN should put Switzerland on a watch list!
Swiss mercenaries were highly regarded and feared, especially during the Renaissance. So, if they want this restaurant, they can take it.
Break out the pikes! 😄😄
No
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@Stevie-J the swiss guard Is actualy the papal guard
hahahaha one step at the time. First a restaurant, then the world ! xD
Great job, a fascinating discussion on an issue which is becoming more and more important. I just love the way you narrate it and how you lead the watcher to understand this (and other) complex issues in such a simple way. Spot on!
That's why I love vox
Good video and good comment, win win.
Global warming is a hoax
Finally , swiss territorial expansion.
In a few years we'll discover that climate change was actually Switzerland's plan to expand on Italy's borders.
Yeah the Swiss government with the help of Swiss scientists have made the climate change. They will stop climate change when Switzerland has gained planned territories.
it will remain italian territory
wasn't there an italian town that became swiss (or the other way around) a few years ago?
@@Game_Hero I think that was for an entirely different reason
There's a mistake about the watershed:
On the Italian side water does indeed go to the Mediterranean (via the Po to the Adriatic), but on the Swiss side of the Theodul glacier, the water ALSO goes to the Mediterranean (via the Rhone to Marseilles).
As for water flowing to the Black Sea, that's only the case for the far East of Switzerland (the Inn river)
I also noticed this, ticino sheds into the mediterranean via Po.
Marseille* no s at the end
Fun fact: a tributary of the Inn actually begins in Italy, it's called the Drava...and yes, it brings water from Italy all the way to the Black Sea via the Inn and the Danube.
Wow, that guy should really read that book he wrote more carefully before interviews!
Thanks for pointing this out, we've corrected the error in the video!
Believe me glacier melting is the least concerning part of the Indo-China border problem.
If the U.S would stop selling weapons to India in order to destabilize the region, there would be no border problem as these secular nations have been able to maintain peace through diplomacy. But how can the U.S sell weapons in a peaceful world?
@@nielswaldorf4009 Well hello Xi-bot! 🤣
@@patrickfitzgerald2861 Hi there piece of scheiss yankee!
@@nielswaldorf4009 China should see India as atleast a Asian brother. Chinese are constantly being aggressive. They are funding Pakistan to challenge India. We have a poor population. We are forced to spent high budget on military.
@@patrickfitzgerald2861 Hello trumptard
as an italian, i really appreciate the work you put in using the correct pronounciations!
Thank you :)
Man, finding out about this Ski Lodge that was melting away was...... *_CHILLING_*
There's something about this poetic Line that feels just...
Poetic.
Is the ski lodge not built on rock?
This was an unexpected surprise this morning! I stayed at the Refugio overnight back in 2011 and I have nothing but praise for it. Some of the nicest people work there and the food was just what you needed after a long day of skiing. Not to mention the view and the serenity of being at the top of the Alps at night with nothing but the stars and the Matterhorn above you. I can tell you that it was well worth the (very reasonable) price, especially because you get the privilege of being the first on the slopes in the morning!
It's only called Matterhorn in the Swiss side of the mountain , the north side , in the Italian side it's called monte Cervino . The peak of the mountain is the border of the two Countries .
Switzerland and Italy
"Let's make an agreement mutually beneficial and peaceful."
India and China
"What do 'mutually beneficial' and 'peaceful' mean?"
XD
U.S selling weapons to India: What does peaceful mean?
@@nielswaldorf4009 India bought majority of weapons from Russia and should keep on buying more. And btw china kinda need to chill out dude.
@@nielswaldorf4009 they barely sold anything to India
@@nielswaldorf4009 Of all the things the US has done in the past 2 decades that’s what you’re going after?
At 0:46 the arrows actually start from one of the few areas of Switzerland which is south of the watershed.
Also, it's quite funny that "Andrea Bagnato" wrote a border about the watershed since "bagnato" means "wet"/"bathed"
Yeah, the rhone flows into the Mediterranean Sea. Same with the lakes in Ticino
There aren't "few" areas of Switzerland that drain south into the Mediterranean. It's a huge chunk of the southern half of the country. This vid made a mistake.
@@ekszentrik and @Berger Niklas I did not say "to the mediterranean", I said south of the watershed, maybe I could have specifiedd "alpine watershed".
The Rhone goes to the mediterranean but it is not south of the alpine watershed.
The only few areas in Switzerlan which are south of the alpine watershed are:
- the small area between Simplonpass and the Italian border
- Canton Ticino
- small areas of Grigioni/Graubunden/Grisons (Val Bregaglia, Val Mustair, Val Poschiavo)
The video puts those arrows in Canton Ticino, whose waters drain in Ticino, which in turns end up in Po.
@@ekszentrik I checked the video again and indeed the way they cut the interview with Ferrari makes it seem that water North of the Swiss-Italian border never goes to the Mediterranean, which is of course very wrong. (as a Geneva resident this hits close to home)
My comment although was about the drawing of the arrows in Ticino, and I only mentioned the watershed, not the sea the water gets to.
"They might have to change their wall plugs" ROFL
And if they don't the wall plug police will come.
As a Swiss person I would like to say that Italy can draw the border wherever they please, just keep supplying us all the good food because we don’t have any. Buona giornata a tutti 🇨🇭🇮🇹
italofilo o italiano? Perché onestamente, anche se ridiamo spesso sul cibo della svizzera interna, sia in svizzera interna che nella svizzera francese si mangia bene. La differenza è il tipo di cibo che si mangia bene. La pasta in svizzera interna fa, francamente, piuttosto schifo, ma la selvaggina e in generale la carne sono buonissimi.
I live on that border, honestly no one cares of where the border is too much personally, of course borders are theoretically respected but people move in between the 2 countries with no patrol at all.
The glacial melting is a pain for my heart
has it been getting worse?
Episode about borders without Johnny Harris is not the Same.
Especially one about Switzerland
And an orange jacket
his channel is really good
“Marco Ferrari” is the most Italian name ever.
Mario rossi
Great video, but there’s a mistake at 0:40. The Swiss-Italian border does not follow the watershed between the Mediterranean Sea and the North Sea or Black Sea. That watershed is located somewhere between 10 and 40 kilometers to the north of the Swiss-Italian border. (You can check this by looking at the Wikipedia entry called "Hydrology of Switzerland".)
Well Ticino sheds to the Mediterranean…. So you are also wrong
@@silviobelletti so does the border follow the watershed or nah?
@@TheSugish think no, Is more of a historic border
@@jacopofolin6400 so OP wasnt wrong then
@@TheSugish 90% of the times it follows the watershed. The only big exception is Canton Ticino
It is implied that Indo-China dispute is due to melting of the ice. For viewers unfamiliar with the topic, that is not the case. The conflict is complex but is mostly a consequence of Imperial and Chinese aggression, cartographic ambiguity of older maps & lack of political will to settle the dispute amicably.
yea it combination of all of them and in future due to global warming, melting of ice will included as well and so will also be in the case of siachen glacier also
'China'
The Qing Empire was also 'an empire', they also conquered these territories
So does the PRC does as its predecessors bid?
Tibet considered itself an independent nation (tributary state) and Qing considered it to be a vassal (part of the empire)
So who do you consider?
The beijing gov far far away or the tibetan gov at lhasa?
@Hernando Malinche Actually they would prefer India over China because of religious issues. Except for Kashmir.
@Hernando Malinche ah ok you are no Hernando, Wumao. But nice to know your Wumao army is diversifying .
nice video... but I miss the version Jonny Harris would have done that would probably have involved visiting the place and nerding out on all sort of deatils... because you know, he's obssessed with borders and Switzerland. Still a good informative video though. ;)
Haha I came here to say this video has Johnny Harris written all over it :D
Jonathan Pondu, Johnny is doing another one for the border between Austria and Italy . The Tyrol. stay put.
@@PHlophe cool
Due to the fact the restaurant is deemed Italian, it should remain a 'fixture' of the border. and considering its Switzerland I don't think they'll have any desire to conquer a piece of land that has been Italian for all this time. Switzerland have a reputation to uphold that is way more important than a restaurant.
Well they won't "conquer" the land, pre-existing agreements will just naturally shift the restaurant into Switzerland.
I want this restaurant in my country
Gönnemer eus!
Ticino vs Lombardia? This must be the most organized and polite war of all time
@@MrMrSwitzerland1 take it
Imagine suddenly being subject to laws of a different country through no actions or choice of your own. It's like being invaded, but on an extremely personal level.
If there is not enough snow, they would need to close anyway.
They may just legislate exceptions for these things, as often happens.
Hopefully doesn't lead to a war between Swiss and Italian skiers
Ok we're ready! Armed with snowballs.
There is a hospital in Germany at the border to the Netherlands in Aachen that is slowly moving towards the border. So in a way this hospital is going to invade the Netherlands. Really slow, but steady.
*G E K O L O N I S E E R D*
Lovely video, but there are a couple of errors about the swiss-italian border. The Refugio is now in canton de Valais, where the border does follow the watershed boundary. But it's the Po/Rhône boundary, and both ultimately drain into the Mediterranean - not the North Sea as shown at 00:49. Only a tiny section of the border follows the Mediterranean / Black sea (Po/Danube) boundary, and it's the far Eastern section in canton de Grisons, not canton de Ticino as shown at 00:46. The Ticino border actually misses the boundary entirely, with most of the canton draining into the Italian side
Moving borders :O thats quite futuristic! Signs of a peaceful world
Ö
"Italia recognized the border to Austria as mobile"
Me, an Austrian viewer: "So we can get Southern Tyrol now, right?"
There is an intereseting example that is quite similar nearby where I grew up: The border between Carinthia (southernmost state of Austria) and Slovenia along the Karawanken mountain range. In this case it is not about melting glaciers but the erosion of the limestone the Karawanken are made of. Continuosly the summits of the mountains are moving south as the steep northern side of the Karawanken erodes. There even is some kind of contract between Austria and Slowenia about Austria giving land to Slovenia every century to make up for Slovenia's loss of territory.
Additionally the history of this border is really interesting as it didn't exist in the Austro-Hungarian empire as Slovenia was part of that very empire and the line between Austria and Slovenia had to be settled causing fights between Yugoslavian and Austrian troops and an referendum in those parts of Carinthia that were claimed by the Kingdom of Yugoslavia because of the Slovenian ethnic group living there.
That story might be worth a video on here...
If only all these Border disputes could be like the Italian-Swiss glacier border dispute the world would be a much better place!
Italy: Our Rifugio Guide del Cervino, will moving into your border because of Theodul glacier is melting😭
Switzerland: *OH NO, ANYWAY...🌚*
As an Italian: OH NO! Anyway...
Excited to read the video title already!
Always loved driving into Italy from CH 💖
I've actually been to Rifugio a few years ago. There were zero signs of any Swiss culture back in the day. May consider revisiting again as I want to see a little change in culture nearby.
Because Ticino is, in fact, an italian region. It was part of Lombardy before the swiss invaded it in the 16th or 17th something century
@@aleale6277 Rifugio is next to Waliss and not Ticino
I went when I was staying in Zermatt. It was fun, snowboarding across the border fr lunch, then heading back down to Switzerland after. Thanks Schengen ;)
A video about boarders and the Swiss? Johnny Harris' ears must be burning. Good video!
Well, there are some place where the border doesn't follow the watershed at all.
The Drava river, for one, has its source in Italy but for most of its lenght it flows in Austria and Slovenia, eventually joining the Danube and ending up in the Black Sea.
There are also places where the water crosses the border multiple times:
The course of the Isorno river for example begins in Italy, flowing down the valley it enters Switzerland where it joins the East Melezzo river first and then the Maggia. The Maggia then flows into Lake Maggiore, shared between Italy and Switzerland, from which the water then flows out through the Ticino, the Po and, eventually, reaches the Mediterranean sea near Venice.
Never thought on those lines about our borders.
Looking at how relevant it is for the growing hostile conditions b/w India-China, a fresh challenge would be to agree on an incalculable basis for determining boundaries.
What an amazing adventure you got there. Very nice atmosphere
How is the shifting glacier border moving the border over that restaurant? It is built on a clearly visible rock. That part of the border is not changing and it has been probably undisputed since the restaurant was built there with no issues.
Exactly!!!
If only the whole world could move past borders like that
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This so interesting, thank you for sharing.
We need more content like this. This is so interesting
very nice content and i love the geographical videos
Informative. Thank you.
Imagine an Italian Steve Jobs super interested in design and curvy lines...
The demonstration of the glacier was quite cool!
Really cool video! I didn't know how often "change" the borders here!
From italy, with love
This is a video we needed to see.
The same thing with rivers as a borders: whole village may went to neighbor country after a river naturally change its way! In one year!
It's folding just like my mood on a normal day.
What all headaches are raisin as glaciers melt.
Cool! But in the map showing the watershed (00:42) there's a big error (from the Swiss perspective at least!). Ticino canton (the central southern part of Switzerland) is in the Mediterranean side...any Swiss person would notice that beaucoup everybody knows that you have to take one of the world's longest tunnel to get to Ticino. ;-)
The same goes with the Alto Adige for Italy again and Carinthia, that should belongs to Slovenia If we follow the logic of the watershed natural border
I've been to that restaurant this christmas and while the food was cheap compared to swiss prices, it also wasn't that good.
We'll see if it will have become a swiss restaurant with more expensive but better dishes by the time I return to Zermatt and its wonderful ski resort.
I love mountains.
This is also happening in the Rocky Mountains, where the same method defines the border between British Colombia and Alberta. Admittedly, less problematic since it is a provincial border, not a national one.
Yes this video was needed on youtube
Italian here, please do note that despite the Italian and swiss wall plugs being different, most things you'll plug into the wall will only need the negative and positive prong and not the third middle prong, so I wouldn't say that wall plug changes cause an issue
Just visited this place last weekend. Hopefully it will stay in Italy 🇮🇹🏔️
❤️
I've really been enjoying the practical diagrams you guys have been doing lately. So much cooler than just using after effects.
Country 1: Hey Buddy
Country 2: Hi there
Mother nature: Melts Ice....
Countries: Fire in the hole 💣🔥🔥
Great work 👏 👍
Super interesting! I wonder if mudslides/landslides/erosion have caused similar issues... or lava flow for that matter 🤔
The issue arise anytime a natural border moves for whatever reason. It’s just that obviously water based border can move much faster and more often.
Nice video
At least Italy still has Tifa by its side.
Very interesting video.
4:02 Dear Vox, You should have respected the territorial sovereignty of India while "demarcating" the border of India with Pakistan if not with China.
exactly
Incredibly interesting.
I have seen the tip of the mountain...and it is good.
You could just defined the border on which way the water runs that place. This definition of broader evolves along with the earth. It’s a simple as which way does the marble roll.
Lol, true. But what if the water run changes because of glacier movement...like in this case?
Fascinating.
This is really good 👍
This gives a whole new perspective to geopolitical issues that arise with the increase of climate change, probably never would have thought of it this way!
Good for you!
Talk about the dispute in the region of Monte Bianco between Italy and France.
Great video. That river is called Danube though, not Dunabe (subtitles).
Wow, a well researched, informative video from Vox. I did not expect that.
Sounds like a project for a longer-running series by BORDERS
I just wanted to point out that the rifugio is clearly built on the top of a rocky peak. How can the border move over it even if the glacier melts?
Who says Switzerland is neutral,Switzerland is expanding 😎😎
On the other hand, some areas around the Mont-Blanc between Italy and France are still labeled as "disputed areas" as it don't follow the watershed line.
In the case of the Peak its mostly because the french Keep claiming an outdated map is proof they own the Peak, when according to the UN the very summit of the Mountain Is split between the two
Can't believe I watched a Borders episode without Johnny Harris!
Oh no! An imaginary line might change! 😱
this would've been a cool borders video
Something I didn't know I wanted to know. Interesting, but more importantly... worrying.
Why don't they just set the border at specific gps coordinates instead of trying to follow a moving mountain top?
Interesting
Thanks
A similar thing is happening at the US-Mexico border, because the Rio Grande river is changing a little.
I feel like I have just watch an intro to the video and nothing else.
Just a question, i can understand the watershed line but how would this be applicable to something on solid rock with a clear border. The cafe looks to be just about the only thing that cannot shift
I actually wish this was longer.
This is so interesting and funny at the same time!
Just had a big gap in my general knowledge exposed - I had assumed that all borders were defined by drawing lines connecting geolocational dots. It had never crossed my mind that they might move if the landscape changed.
I guess that would apply to other borders in Switzerland as well. Much of the border to France follows the Rhein or the Doubs rivers.
Borders are defined by treaties.
Lol yeah @Sierra Black, but I had - illogically - assumed that they resulted in border lines that were immovable. So even if they initially followed the route a river took, if that river's route was modified, the border wouldn't just pack its Google maps coordinates and move with it.
Is the restaurant located on the Swiss side of the rock peak? I may have missed something, just curious if the glacial melt would result in temporary or permanent Swiss-border overtaking it. Regardless, very interesting video and well done.
Liked the BTS in the end !
So the place the restaurant is located at is Testa Grigia (marked plateau rosa on Swiss resort maps) and amusingly the restaurant is very Italian with Italian staff who live on the Italian side but they remained open during an Italy wide lockdown by claiming they were in Switzerland :D The restaurant is at the transfer point between the Zermatt ski resort in Switzerland (Google Matterhorn and you will notice the mountain the Toblerone logo is based on) and Cervinia on the Italian side.
Maybe it was because I was hungry and exhausted but I had the best Tiramisu of my life there.
The Alps have been ice-free several times, that's nature. Man lives so short, you can tell him everything
Did you think this was a good point to make? It doesn't make man made climate change less of an issue.
@@SilverEye91 Is it an issue? Or just a new religion?
@@mattmcguire1577 Well, I guess it's not an issue if you consider increased number of natural disasters, more death and the loss of natural life problems to worry about.
@@SilverEye91 Im sorry what? Where tf do you pull this "more natural disasters" tripe? Are volcanoes going to start sending cease and desist letter?
@@Cotac_Rastic That's what will happen as a result of global warming. Everyone knows this mate.
Interesting stuff.
It's all fun games until someone discover a big oil or diamond fields underneath the alps.
Wow. I was googling this a week ago