I still use it. In conjunction with homebrew Arduino modules to connect things together it does everything I need. I already have a phone, I don’t need anything else with a microphone in my house always on :-).
9:47.. that was the way PCB deigns were made back then.. With Hand placed Tape on Mylar at 2X the size of the finished PCB. Been there.. Done that. 16:02... that is a relay for higher powered devices.. Those are the only ones I use. Very reliable. 17:01.. it takes time to send multiple RF packets and verify the Sends by the RX. My RF signals go as far as 200 feet with new batteries in the Remote TX.
I vaguely remembered, so just did a search. There are PC interfaces and WiFi adapters now.one even said you can control x10 from a smartphone. Will have to keep this in mind for a future hobby project.
Back in the late 1960s and early 70s, I got involved with modifying' some of the X10 system. I was working for a private investigation firm, and we modified some units to include a microphone and some to tie into the phone system and cable systems. I do not know what happened to the units we modified they could still be out there still working.
Brings back memory. I bought several of those things at a Rado Shack. I had also a timer unit. Living in a 220V area i had to modify them (as far as i remember i put an extra capacitor in series with the capacitor dropper).
Yes, I remember X10 stuff and I had a few devices. The last thing I used it for was controlling my dust collector in the garage for woodworking. It worked somewhat well but, not great. Been using Home Assistant for several years now. Wish I had HA back in the days.
There were intercomms that used the mains, but you couldn't use them between houses if they were on a different phase, or if you had 3 phase in the property you had to make sure they were on the same phase.
This. Someone non-technical who I know uses X10. I explained to him that X10 is best when all devices are on the same phase. The easiest way to get this result is to limit the X10 devices to the circuit from every other circuit breaker position in a typical panel.
I picked up an X10 starter kit in the mid '90s with a clock, couple of lamp and device modules, and a controller that you could connect to the PC with serial and use a program to toggle all the modules. We were also able to set it up for internet control. At the time it was amazing, and the best thing about it was that it had an industry standard communication protocol, so you could buy any X10 unit and know it would work with everything else, unlike nowadays when there are so many different manufacturer protocols that you never quite know if things will work together well.
I set up a bunch in the house in the early 90's which is still in use today. I also put some at my parent's cottage. I put a key chain remote in their vehicle so when they would arrive at the cottage in the dark, they could remotely turn on 2 channels of deck lighting. I have at least one of the 4/8 channel table top wired remotes, the clock unit for timed events, and a few of the 8/16 channel wireless remote pads (x10 HR12A). Those 4 channel remotes were not very reliable even when new. I did start to experiment with the serial dongle on my PC setting events in the windows scheduler. However, I found it to be buggy and unreliable. I wish they had a product to tie newer smart plugs to these older style remotes. they have a method to use a smart phone on old units, but not the other way around. I'd rather just have a button instead of flipping through my phone's lock screen, the finding the app to turn on or off a lamp.... Very cool to see this and thanks for sharing.
I have a big tub of X10 stuff still. Nothing in use anymore as I've replaced everything with ESP8266 devices. X10 was a bit clunky and doesn't work all the time as you saw. You also can't transmit between the two phases in your electrical panel, but there was a work-around for that. I also have the RS232 interface so the computer could talk to the devices. Ahhh memories! :)
Until recently, I used X10 technology in my woodworking shop to control the sawdust cleaner, shop vac for powered hand tool dust control and an ambient air cleaner. I controlled the devices via remote controls. Worked great most of the time.
There's a control station where you can program on and off times for your devices We simply used that in conjunction with the chime to announce the start of the work day and the various break periods at work
19:11 you kind of sounded like Matt Frewer at this point loved him as Max Headroom! 😀 never had one of these X-10 systems, but remember hearing about them, Great Video, Thanx 👍
I started with X-10 and moved on to Insteon. I still have about 30 Insteon devices (mainly switches) that are X-10 compatible. Now moving to Zigbee and ZWave as I buy new devices.
I have a set in storage somewhere. I remember it having a brief lag. The triac version also dims the lights. I believe you aren't supposed to plug them into a power strip with a surge protector. The filtering might interfere with the signal. You might need to fully extend the antenna on the transmitter unit and have the antenna vertical to get better range. I plugged my Tx unit into a wall receptacle so I could extend and orient the antenna. Also, my switches seemed to lose memory quite often. Reprogramming them was a pain! Mine defaulted to House A and Unit 1. There may also an issue if the plugs are on different legs of the 220VAC. If your house shared step-down transformer on the utility, your neighbors units might operate your modules, if I remember correctly. In modern times, I use Philips smart bulbs and Kasa wall switches and plugs. Much easier and less fiddly!
I've still got one of these from when the were giving away starter sets for free. One remote and one switch - I used it to control a living room lamp until it died just a couple of years ago.
I remember this in the 1980's , but not as early as the 70's . I had a lot of laughs putting the office copier on a remote-control from my office and turning it off as a prank when people tried to use it. Later on, they had video cameras and I put a few on our house.
Components values may have shifted a bit after 40 + years. A bit of tweaking may give a better RF range. I had the TRS-80 Plug ‘n Power Controller for my Model I.
Remember it ? I’m still using it to control my whole house with their program software and microcontroller . Difficulty now is replacing some of the older items when they finally die . I need an IR543 if anyone has a source 😊
I remember X10 being a thing. I was just a teen-ager when it came out in the 70s, and couldn't afford fancy stuff like that when I got my own place in the 80s, but I remember it existing.
Don't hate on me plz. I took a job selling a similar system (knock-off), door to door, after school . I still get random nervy twitches when I hear, or think I've heard, that chime..🔊😲⚠.
I've used the X10 products for over 35 years. I still buy and use the X10 Remote Xmitters (incuding the PC Serial Interface and Light Controllers for my house and shop lights. I also use the X10 Chime for an entry Alarm with an X10 PIR Xmitter for detecting the Delivery guys..
I remember see a X10 control system for for home automation being demonstrated in 1979/1980 at the Australian computer show running from an Ohio Scientific Inc 6502 system.
The X10 modules had a neat feature that bypassed a small current around the module. This was used to detect if the local lamp switch was just turned on. This would then operate the lamp without accessing the controller. Unfortunately this only works with incandescent bulbs. Modern LED or fluorescent bulbs will light up with this low current, making the lamp modules useless for these. The fix is to use an appliance module to switch an LED/fluorescent lamp or have at least one incandescent bulb in parallel.
I used to use X10 to control lights and things, my home alarm system was X10 enabled, so it could turn on and off lights to give the appearance the property was occupied when empty. It worked reasonably well in the early days, (I installed it in 2002), but it got progressively more unreliable as more and more electronic stuff started to be used. Over time I found the units likely to fail due to capacitor issues, quite a few of them stopped working, and it was always one of the small electrolytic capacitors which had failed. It was used regularly to control lights and garden lighting from 2002 to about 2010. My modules mostly had status, so you could command them on or off and check they had done as commanded. After about 2010 the system got so unreliable I stopped using X10 - I don't know exactly why it stopped working, but I assumed it was due to more and more electronic devices on the power circuit causing noise which disrupted the X10 signal. I suppose it could also be the X10 system deteriorating over time and not giving out such a strong signal (although I don't think that is the case as I replaced the X10 gateway module in the alarm system in about 2008 after it died in a cloud of smoke when several capacitors failed). Here in the UK home automation was pretty rare in the early 2000's. The only X10 module still used is running the garage and passage/porch lights, which turn on automatically if a door is open and the light drops, or if you open a relevant door and its dark. They turn off 3 minutes after the last door is shut. The x10 contactor which does this also has a manual override 12V DC coil input which bypasses the X10 control. The range on the remote control units was pretty good - would work across a couple of rooms through 2 walls, so there is something wrong with your unit.
Remember X10? I still have x10 modules on my livingroom lamps, and a few appliance modules that turn other things on and off from a cron job on my linux router! The 2 advantages of x10 are they're super cheap, and they are NOT cloud connected!
There are a a lot of local only devices these days. Zigbee and Zwave are also fully local, as long as your hub doesn't conenct to the cloud (and a lot don't) Even Matter is fully local, again it is only if the hub connects to the cloud.
I remember X10. Played with it in the 80's a little. It was not overly reliable, but it was fun to play with at the time. It was limited, but for the time it was still pretty niche and crazy for the time. I recall those remote swithces having much better range. Maybe your transceiver unit has a fault or the antenna is not connected right. Ther use to be an integration called HEYU X10 that would integrate X10 to home assistant. Not sure if it still exists. I don't use X10 now :) It had been available since Home Assistant version 0.25.
They also have problems with powerline interference affecting the signals. I own a Speed Queen washing machine that very reliably when running sends interference that activates some of my X10 devices - sometimes turning things on, sometimes turning things off. But it does one or the other every time we do laundry.
A comment and a question: 1. Comment: we as a society should start using more simplicity like these x10s in our lives now as parts might be more readily available, and also easier to repair. As a former commercial laundry repairman, i always valued the older machines. Lots of cheap parts lying around and easy to fix and move on. 2. Question: I had to limit the amount of electronic components that i ordered, just not enough space to store it all. I have downsized to the essential project stuff. Do you have this same problem with your "Pile of Stuff"?
Yeah, storage does get to be a bit of an issue around here. I've donated some of the review samples to local makerspaces and a few engineering students in the past.
@@R.B. Unfortunately, I can't control what youtube does with non-alpha characters when they shorten it themselves. At least I control the shortener that I run on my own server.
They tried selling these in Australia against the Cipsal C-Bus system (which uses CAT3 as control wiring). It was very difficult for our reps to sell against this stuff, due to the need to have a control cable on C-Bus. Clients only bought X10 once, then they learnt why such a system is incredibly unreliable in real world applicarions, especially commercial. 😢
Unreliable operation due to interference on the mains. The error checking and handshacking had some flaws, too. Sometimes worked, sometimes didn't. Would get itself into knots, flooding the mains with noisy control signals, couldnt get signals though reliably or would be so laggy that users would keep hitting the button which made things even worse. Couldn't trust it as a professional control system.
No, they're still being used, I have a whole set of them myself and I like them a lot better than this. The Wi-Fi connected smart flow stuff is when the internet's not working. Those things wont-work, but the X10 does work independently as a wifi
According to the manufacture dates on the inside, they are decades old. Other than that, I have no history - these were picked up used at a garage sale
I'm going to assume you are a Big Clive fan, after the "one moment please" Going to also assume you from the extreme northern USA, Montana to Washington, from hearing, OAT and ABOAT. for out and about. Got a free X-10 sample pack after reading of their $40 value in an electronics magazine. (Mid 90's) 6 other electricians from our vacuum cleaner plant in N Canton, Ohio got in on the deal. Still have one to open the garage door 30 years later. (Sears wanted a fortune for a transmitter and had made buying the decoder chip impossible.) Good Bye Sears 🥲🤣 Here's your 👍
I mean, who *isn't* a fan of Big Clive. And if you want to know if your guess about my location is correct, my PO box is listed in the channel description.
I still use it. In conjunction with homebrew Arduino modules to connect things together it does everything I need. I already have a phone, I don’t need anything else with a microphone in my house always on :-).
That's for f-ing sure!
9:47.. that was the way PCB deigns were made back then.. With Hand placed Tape on Mylar at 2X the size of the finished PCB. Been there.. Done that.
16:02... that is a relay for higher powered devices.. Those are the only ones I use. Very reliable.
17:01.. it takes time to send multiple RF packets and verify the Sends by the RX. My RF signals go as far as 200 feet with new batteries in the Remote TX.
I vaguely remembered, so just did a search. There are PC interfaces and WiFi adapters now.one even said you can control x10 from a smartphone. Will have to keep this in mind for a future hobby project.
Back in the late 1960s and early 70s, I got involved with modifying' some of the X10 system. I was working for a private investigation firm, and we modified some units to include a microphone and some to tie into the phone system and cable systems. I do not know what happened to the units we modified they could still be out there still working.
Brings back memory. I bought several of those things at a Rado Shack. I had also a timer unit. Living in a 220V area i had to modify them (as far as i remember i put an extra capacitor in series with the capacitor dropper).
Yes, I remember X10 stuff and I had a few devices. The last thing I used it for was controlling my dust collector in the garage for woodworking. It worked somewhat well but, not great. Been using Home Assistant for several years now. Wish I had HA back in the days.
I have some of the Radio Shack modules
There were intercomms that used the mains, but you couldn't use them between houses if they were on a different phase, or if you had 3 phase in the property you had to make sure they were on the same phase.
This. Someone non-technical who I know uses X10. I explained to him that X10 is best when all devices are on the same phase. The easiest way to get this result is to limit the X10 devices to the circuit from every other circuit breaker position in a typical panel.
I still have some myself. I even have one of the control consoles
Dude, those were rad. They were great for controlling old disco lights!
I picked up an X10 starter kit in the mid '90s with a clock, couple of lamp and device modules, and a controller that you could connect to the PC with serial and use a program to toggle all the modules. We were also able to set it up for internet control. At the time it was amazing, and the best thing about it was that it had an industry standard communication protocol, so you could buy any X10 unit and know it would work with everything else, unlike nowadays when there are so many different manufacturer protocols that you never quite know if things will work together well.
I set up a bunch in the house in the early 90's which is still in use today. I also put some at my parent's cottage. I put a key chain remote in their vehicle so when they would arrive at the cottage in the dark, they could remotely turn on 2 channels of deck lighting. I have at least one of the 4/8 channel table top wired remotes, the clock unit for timed events, and a few of the 8/16 channel wireless remote pads (x10 HR12A). Those 4 channel remotes were not very reliable even when new. I did start to experiment with the serial dongle on my PC setting events in the windows scheduler. However, I found it to be buggy and unreliable. I wish they had a product to tie newer smart plugs to these older style remotes. they have a method to use a smart phone on old units, but not the other way around. I'd rather just have a button instead of flipping through my phone's lock screen, the finding the app to turn on or off a lamp.... Very cool to see this and thanks for sharing.
Remembers ? I thought it was STILL a thing ! :)
It's surprising (and refreshing to see) when a technology that originated in the '70s is still in use, pretty much unchanged.
I have a big tub of X10 stuff still. Nothing in use anymore as I've replaced everything with ESP8266 devices. X10 was a bit clunky and doesn't work all the time as you saw. You also can't transmit between the two phases in your electrical panel, but there was a work-around for that. I also have the RS232 interface so the computer could talk to the devices. Ahhh memories! :)
Until recently, I used X10 technology in my woodworking shop to control the sawdust cleaner, shop vac for powered hand tool dust control and an ambient air cleaner. I controlled the devices via remote controls. Worked great most of the time.
X-10 was good stuff, used a bunch of it.
There's a control station where you can program on and off times for your devices
We simply used that in conjunction with the chime to announce the start of the work day and the various break periods at work
Yeah, there were (and still are) a lot of other interesting modules beyond the collection that I picked up at the garage sale.
19:11 you kind of sounded like Matt Frewer at this point
loved him as Max Headroom! 😀
never had one of these X-10 systems, but remember hearing about them, Great Video, Thanx 👍
I was re-watching the Max Headroom series not that long ago. Maybe some of it rubbed off on me!
@@pileofstuff well I am glad it did. 😀👍
EDIT: Loved the movie and the series ❤
X10, combined with Mochad and Home Assistant is amazing. Cheap and reliable.
What a clever system. I vaguely remember something like this being mentioned in the early 80's, but nothing seemed to come of it over here, (UK).
I started with X-10 and moved on to Insteon. I still have about 30 Insteon devices (mainly switches) that are X-10 compatible. Now moving to Zigbee and ZWave as I buy new devices.
I have a set in storage somewhere. I remember it having a brief lag. The triac version also dims the lights. I believe you aren't supposed to plug them into a power strip with a surge protector. The filtering might interfere with the signal. You might need to fully extend the antenna on the transmitter unit and have the antenna vertical to get better range. I plugged my Tx unit into a wall receptacle so I could extend and orient the antenna. Also, my switches seemed to lose memory quite often. Reprogramming them was a pain! Mine defaulted to House A and Unit 1. There may also an issue if the plugs are on different legs of the 220VAC. If your house shared step-down transformer on the utility, your neighbors units might operate your modules, if I remember correctly. In modern times, I use Philips smart bulbs and Kasa wall switches and plugs. Much easier and less fiddly!
How odd (to me anyways) Very cool
I bet a new version of these as a diy project could be directed towards cordless battery powered appliances, and usb driven stuff.
remember them well, still have a box full of them in the garage.
I've still got one of these from when the were giving away starter sets for free. One remote and one switch - I used it to control a living room lamp until it died just a couple of years ago.
@strayling1
It can be repaired. Don't throw it out.!!!
@@snakezdewiggle6084 It's on the list, right after my Syquest Sparq.
I remember this in the 1980's , but not as early as the 70's . I had a lot of laughs putting the office copier on a remote-control from my office and turning it off as a prank when people tried to use it. Later on, they had video cameras and I put a few on our house.
Components values may have shifted a bit after 40 + years. A bit of tweaking may give a better RF range.
I had the TRS-80 Plug ‘n Power Controller for my Model I.
Remember it ? I’m still using it to control my whole house with their program software and microcontroller . Difficulty now is replacing some of the older items when they finally die . I need an IR543 if anyone has a source 😊
Right now there is one on eBay - hurry, it’s being watched.
I remember X10 being a thing. I was just a teen-ager when it came out in the 70s, and couldn't afford fancy stuff like that when I got my own place in the 80s, but I remember it existing.
Don't hate on me plz.
I took a job selling a similar system (knock-off), door to door, after school . I still get random nervy twitches when I hear, or think I've heard, that chime..🔊😲⚠.
I've used the X10 products for over 35 years. I still buy and use the X10 Remote Xmitters (incuding the PC Serial Interface and Light Controllers for my house and shop lights. I also use the X10 Chime for an entry Alarm with an X10 PIR Xmitter for detecting the Delivery guys..
I remember see a X10 control system for for home automation being demonstrated in 1979/1980 at the Australian computer show running from an Ohio Scientific Inc 6502 system.
@RoyAntaw
Was that the traveling show, or just Brissie and Melb.?
"6502", they are still using them and Z80's today.
The X10 modules had a neat feature that bypassed a small current around the module. This was used to detect if the local lamp switch was just turned on. This would then operate the lamp without accessing the controller. Unfortunately this only works with incandescent bulbs. Modern LED or fluorescent bulbs will light up with this low current, making the lamp modules useless for these. The fix is to use an appliance module to switch an LED/fluorescent lamp or have at least one incandescent bulb in parallel.
I still use X10. Nobody else has a 4 function alarm clock that doesn't require a smart phone to operate.
I used to use X10 to control lights and things, my home alarm system was X10 enabled, so it could turn on and off lights to give the appearance the property was occupied when empty. It worked reasonably well in the early days, (I installed it in 2002), but it got progressively more unreliable as more and more electronic stuff started to be used. Over time I found the units likely to fail due to capacitor issues, quite a few of them stopped working, and it was always one of the small electrolytic capacitors which had failed. It was used regularly to control lights and garden lighting from 2002 to about 2010. My modules mostly had status, so you could command them on or off and check they had done as commanded. After about 2010 the system got so unreliable I stopped using X10 - I don't know exactly why it stopped working, but I assumed it was due to more and more electronic devices on the power circuit causing noise which disrupted the X10 signal. I suppose it could also be the X10 system deteriorating over time and not giving out such a strong signal (although I don't think that is the case as I replaced the X10 gateway module in the alarm system in about 2008 after it died in a cloud of smoke when several capacitors failed). Here in the UK home automation was pretty rare in the early 2000's. The only X10 module still used is running the garage and passage/porch lights, which turn on automatically if a door is open and the light drops, or if you open a relevant door and its dark. They turn off 3 minutes after the last door is shut. The x10 contactor which does this also has a manual override 12V DC coil input which bypasses the X10 control. The range on the remote control units was pretty good - would work across a couple of rooms through 2 walls, so there is something wrong with your unit.
I still use it, they still sell it
Remember X10? I still have x10 modules on my livingroom lamps, and a few appliance modules that turn other things on and off from a cron job on my linux router! The 2 advantages of x10 are they're super cheap, and they are NOT cloud connected!
Also, the transciever modules are like an appliance module - the local socket has a fixed unit number of 9
There are a a lot of local only devices these days. Zigbee and Zwave are also fully local, as long as your hub doesn't conenct to the cloud (and a lot don't) Even Matter is fully local, again it is only if the hub connects to the cloud.
I remember X10. Played with it in the 80's a little. It was not overly reliable, but it was fun to play with at the time. It was limited, but for the time it was still pretty niche and crazy for the time. I recall those remote swithces having much better range. Maybe your transceiver unit has a fault or the antenna is not connected right.
Ther use to be an integration called HEYU X10 that would integrate X10 to home assistant. Not sure if it still exists. I don't use X10 now :) It had been available since Home Assistant version 0.25.
i still use my x10 stuff for my bedroom light
.I haven't thought of those in a long time. I remember a home fire was once blamed on them in a small time but who knows what really started it.
X10? Wasn't that a spaceship on the Firebird's show?
Remember x10 but there was not a lot in the uk, did they not burst the data as the mains passed through zero volts.
Correct. It spread the data packets across multiple zero crossings, which also accounts for the delay I was experiencing.
I once heard or read about modern lights interfering with good old RF controls, could that be the reason they fail to work at some distance?
That is the most likely scenario. My work bench has an annoyingly high amount of RFI due to all the switching power supplies.
They also have problems with powerline interference affecting the signals. I own a Speed Queen washing machine that very reliably when running sends interference that activates some of my X10 devices - sometimes turning things on, sometimes turning things off. But it does one or the other every time we do laundry.
A comment and a question:
1. Comment: we as a society should start using more simplicity like these x10s in our lives now as parts might be more readily available, and also easier to repair. As a former commercial laundry repairman, i always valued the older machines. Lots of cheap parts lying around and easy to fix and move on.
2. Question: I had to limit the amount of electronic components that i ordered, just not enough space to store it all. I have downsized to the essential project stuff. Do you have this same problem with your "Pile of Stuff"?
Yeah, storage does get to be a bit of an issue around here. I've donated some of the review samples to local makerspaces and a few engineering students in the past.
The link to the X10 Wikipedia page is missing the ) at the end, so goes to the wrong place. Close though.
When youtube is truncating links they do strange things with parentheses.
I've updated it to use a link shortener - thanks for letting me know.
@@R.B. Unfortunately, I can't control what youtube does with non-alpha characters when they shorten it themselves. At least I control the shortener that I run on my own server.
I remember their website with all the awful flashing popups. Never bought their stuff.
I think they singlehanded caused adblockers to need to be invented.
They tried selling these in Australia against the Cipsal C-Bus system (which uses CAT3 as control wiring).
It was very difficult for our reps to sell against this stuff, due to the need to have a control cable on C-Bus.
Clients only bought X10 once, then they learnt why such a system is incredibly unreliable in real world applicarions, especially commercial. 😢
Try to place the antenna and the foil together i bet it will work at longer distances?.
It would, but that would also defeat the electrical isolation of the exposed antenna
I remember the X10 advertising. I wonder why is the range so bad?
Unreliable operation due to interference on the mains. The error checking and handshacking had some flaws, too. Sometimes worked, sometimes didn't. Would get itself into knots, flooding the mains with noisy control signals, couldnt get signals though reliably or would be so laggy that users would keep hitting the button which made things even worse.
Couldn't trust it as a professional control system.
Modded Xbox consoles had an app to run x10
An alarm clock exists too.
No, they're still being used, I have a whole set of them myself and I like them a lot better than this. The Wi-Fi connected smart flow stuff is when the internet's not working. Those things wont-work, but the X10 does work independently as a wifi
It looks like your units have seen some service time, someones house.
According to the manufacture dates on the inside, they are decades old. Other than that, I have no history - these were picked up used at a garage sale
Zero point communications.
I'm going to assume you are a Big Clive fan, after the "one moment please"
Going to also assume you from the extreme northern USA, Montana to Washington, from hearing,
OAT and ABOAT. for out and about.
Got a free X-10 sample pack after reading of their $40 value in an electronics magazine. (Mid 90's)
6 other electricians from our vacuum cleaner plant in N Canton, Ohio got in on the deal. Still have one to open the garage door 30 years later. (Sears wanted a fortune for a transmitter and had made buying the decoder chip impossible.) Good Bye Sears 🥲🤣
Here's your 👍
I mean, who *isn't* a fan of Big Clive.
And if you want to know if your guess about my location is correct, my PO box is listed in the channel description.