you used a lot of clips of Revolution in this. When Sterling was asked if the show was based on his books at a con panel in 2012 he said "my lawyer says there's nothing actionable"
Funny enough, Sony has the film rights for the books and has pitched a show to HBO but game of thrones took precedent and sterling shot donw the initial scripts because they tried to do that stupid shit where everything has tiddies in it
Revolution had some dumb things in it but I loved the premise. Everyone going back to muskets and swords because it’s extremely hard to make cases bullets. Or that Georgia adapted to steam power. Or that Texas literally remained the same
As a rancher and former farmer I can attest that the pace of development of the various different societies in the series are far, far, far beyond what would actually be achievable in a post collapse world without fossil fuel subsidy (which is in fact what almost all modern technology at its base is). Fun reads none the less.
"Dark Lords are far more epic than competent administrators..." As an author, I can absolutely attest to the validity of this statement. If Tolkien had written Sauron as a slightly quirky yet ultimately effective Executive Director of Mordor, I don't think the story would've resonated down the generations as it has, spawning a six-movie franchise.
I respectfully disagree. One thing that has sworn me off from modern fiction is all the Mary Sue's, Marty Stu's, and villains who owe their Dark Lordness and position to the supernatural, or magic, or existing before time for the sole purpose of being a powerful villain. How utterly lame and one-dimensional. Why can't your Dark Lord be all Dark Lordly because he's competent? Stalin was a textbook example of a sociopath - literally ticking all the boxes in the DSM - but unlike Mao and Hitler, he was competent at wielding power, administering his criminal regime, and actually succeeded at forcing the Soviet Union into a semi-modern State. Which is why the turd lasted as long as he did.
@@juliancate7089 Havelock Vetinari is far more terrifying, and entertaining, than Sauron. Fact is that you never even see Sauron. He is just off somewhere doing evil overlord stuff. I think Sauron works as a character precisely because he is not an actual character. Every '80s swords and sorcery flick fails because the dark lord du jour is shown, and he is revealed to be a flat cut-out of a villain. If you are going to show the evil leader you just about have to reveal him as a competent administrator. And yes, I just implied that Lord Vetinari is evil. Well, isn't he?
A practical guide to evil shows a great example of what dark lords being competent administators would look like. That setting have magic tho, so the methods used could only work with modern engineering in RLalt..
Pseudo-medieval technology & government aside, reading these books (especially the first book) will make you think long and hard about just where your food comes from, and how easy it is for us to eat in these modern times. Humans spent most of history farming, but barely a tithe of a tithe think about it today as directly impacting their lives. (at least in the West)
This reminds me of that id ee ot Bloomberg's comment about poking a hole in the ground, dropping in a seed, and watching the food grow... that "anyone" could be a farmer. Soviet Union and PRC both learned differently. Both times, millions of people went hungry... terminally.
Man I love it when the algorithm finally gives me something worth a damn. This channel is awesome. New books to read. New ideas for writing. A cool host. What else do I need?
I'd expect that in this world, a platoon of Marines reamed with spears and shields would still be a formidable force. Unit cohesion and military discipline would give a distinct edge over street gangs, and (more hypothetically) bayonet technique translates somewhat to a spear. Riot cops replacing their batons with more lethal options would also be a force to be reckoned with, perhaps even more so. They already use tactics reminiscent of a Roman legion.
That is almost a verbatim quote in one of the first major battles by one of the primary characters in the first DtF book: "If we had to face a hundred Norman warriors or Roman legionnaires, they'd mop the floor with us. They'd know what they're doing and we still don't..." And one of the primary DtF primary characters IS a former Marine. and it is funny how he translates Marine tactical training/idea into "we're using swords & bows now". One minor bit that is funny as heck is he never gets used to the idea that two opposing armies can assemble within eye-sight of one another and nobody is getting killed yet. Combat ranges are frequently "noogie range" as he puts it.
In Idaho arose a former officer who gathered folk around him to found The Reconstituted US. It was only him and his followers at first (mostly his troops) but he trained them in Roman armor, weapons and tactics. later in the Emberverse they would be valuable allies to Mike & Juniper.
As a bicycle mechanic, my grief with the books was how hundreds of armored soldiers rode decades old bicycles with no spare parts or maintenance. Still a fun series.
Every time i run into a, "Technology don't work anymore" shtick, my brain always butt's in with, "those natural phenomenon that the writer says don't work no more are pretty vital to the proper functioning of human bodies. "
Yeah thats a huge thing in the books too and goes on to be oretty important in the later books as the series goes from post apocalypse fantasy to hard fantasy
On a side note... Many (many!) years ago, I happened to be in an alt-hist chat where Stirling would occasionally check in under his nom de guerre of "joatsimon". This was, IIRC, after the first three of his Drakaverse books had been published, before Drakon. One evening, someone demanded (demanded!) that he justify his historically allowing the Draka to rise to power and conquer the world. His reply was wonderful, along the lines of, "People buy my books. That is justification enough. I don't answer to you."
I also corresponded with Steve under that nome de guerre, a little bit later, debating, of all things, would a T-800 Terminator be a match for Gwendolyn Ingolfsson.
@@robertlehnert4148 oh that terminator is so doomed. Probably even in straight up combat but definitely the moment weapons or even the most basic tricks and tactics come into play.
Because there's no logical way an engine powered on STEAM should not work. This isn't an engineering issue with people being unable to manufacture the type of combustion engine seen in a car, steam engines are incredibly basic and you can even make one with a large old fashioned kettle. It won't move a train but it works as a scalable prototype.
The ultimate explanation, revealed a bit more than midway through the series, is 'The Powers" (aka, God) could see mankind was headed into an AI hellscape, so a Great Flood like reset was the kinder option.
Your point about the D&D character is the same conclusion I came to after reading the first book. When I started in the SCA everyone was telling me to read it, when I reduced my involvement to just attending a feast or two every year I read it and barely finished the first book.
@@wynfrithnichtwo8423 I suspect there was an implication that just whizzed right on by. I'm not saying I identified it, but I definitely saw it go past.
@@Opforvideo2 Ugh, don't even joke. When you stab something through the chest with a sword, it should die, not punch you hard enough to dent armor with a half-severed hand.
7:49 Quoting directly from the book, the first time Mike is presented with the "additions" to his Bearkiller armor: Astrid (shiny eyed) "ALL HAIL THE BEAR LORD!!!!" Mike: "OH F- NO!!!!" (but he gets shouted down and forced to wear the getup for morale reasons)
Easily one of my favorite parts tbh. I can only imagine how much of a pain it was to fight at his amateur level wearing the kit he was wearinf while also dealing with a 20lb bear cloak as well lol
I'm glad you finally took up the Emberverse! Its one of my favorite series. And you are pretty spot on when it comes to Norman; he becomes a dark lord because in the end, that's what he really wants. He literally planned his Black Tower of Todenangst BEFORE the Change, because he liked the RP so much. Economically speaking, his neo-feudalism is just massively inefficient compared to his more adaptable neighbors. Important also is Sandra Arminger, Norman's wife. She's a very smart woman who does more of the administrative tasks and organizes the women in this incredibly misogynistic society Norman builds, arranging marriages between SCA girls and the gang leaders Norman recruits, to bind the new aristocracy together. After his death she is regent of the PPA, and she basically does what you mention; reforms it somewhat to make it much more like actual medieval world, in order to provide opportunity and buy in from the peasant class. She has to, because the peace treaty the ends the Protector's War gives everyone in the signatory states right of free movement; now the PPA peasants can safely and legally leave for greener pastures.
@ that is literally said by main characters many times and minor characters, especially the lords who replace those who died in the Protector’s War, also say it.
"...during the auto-immune response of 2020..." I shall, henceforth and forever, refer the the corona festival as the auto-immune response of 2020. And, when people laud me for my cleverness, I shall bask in my unearned glory.
I grew up PNW and enjoyed The Postman, may pick this up now. Brin using the locations I travel may have lodged in my noggin the notion I could write such books, too. Stay tuned.
The Postman was an amazing movie and it was sad that it is probably the Kosner movie with the least fanfare Also even in that movie Tom Petty already looked 90
@@victorkreig6089 The movie was good, but it skipped big stuff from the book I would have preferred to see. Hmmm. I wonder if Fallout's NCR was always some sort of tribute to Postman's "Bear Flag Republic"...?
The proposed alternative of assigning people to teams directed by competent farmers is basically what Iowa does, it still leads to feudalism but of a dramatically less blood-soaked fashion
2:59 well…the spear has been the primary long arm and hunting implement of multiple species of humanity for millions of years. We only dropped it when we hit industrial warfare. They’re simple to use and train with unlike swords.
And to make. With factories gone and very few competent smiths around, there's tremendous value in a weapon that any semi-competent handyman can make using the most basic tools. And it's practical for hunting also, meaning the spearman is practicing even when he's just looking for lunch.
The larpers with the swords would be scary........until all of the bow hunters showed up. Sounds like an interesting series. I think I'll check it out.
Yeap yeap, one of the many things that makes the Makenzie’s so freaking dangerous is that one of their leaders is a veteran bowhunter and makes bows as a hobby. Eventually longbow archer becomes the Mackenzie’s favorite sport and the backbone of their army. At one point in the story they recreate the Battle of Agincourt.
That almost exact thing happens in teh first book: Larpers and thugs with swords facing off against bow-armed Mackenzies, who've been trained by a professional bower & former SAS commando...
May I recommend for you H. Beam Piper I seldom hear about anyone who knows about him nowadays. I first read his book Space Vikings' when I was in high school back in the early sixties and managed to eventually get all his books. Sadly I felt he died to young and underappreciated. After watching this I would suggest Lord Kalvin of Otherwhen. Also, as others have said, why this channel does not have over 100K subs is beyond me.
Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen should be on the list too. Poor Beam, on my list of people to visit if I ever get my hands on a time machine, before they say goodbye and to cheer them up.
@@feralhistorian I deeply appreciate your response and I apologize for spelling Kalvan's name incorrectly. At my age I should have known better then to trust my memory. My deepest regards sir.
Brother I have had the worst last few months and I discovered your channel and it’s given a lot of food for thought keep making your videos man it’s given me a little reprieve
I darken the door of a HEMA gymn several times a week and have praciced saber for years. I also have the AR, armor, and LARPtastic tactical moonwalk required to be an extra in a low end direct to consoomer war movie. I'd sooner drill my 2A friends in saber for two weeks before relying on the LARPy DnD players to handle kill or be killed situations. I'm not saying this to demean others or inflate egos, I'm saying that the believability of fantasy nerds taking over the world is hurt by the fact that they're escapists, not the personality types that master the lethal implements of today's world.
Yeah I kinda have to agree here. The idea of a bunch of hema guys taking over any serious level of the modern world is going to end with a LOT of dead hema nerds once people learn that Molotovs still work and that a guy with a sword has no defense against having rocks thrown at them or being set on fire with all that gasoline that no longer makes cars run…
The Western worlds militaries are full of fantasy/sci-fi nerds my uncle was a SF operator and DMs at his local game store, my friends dad was a tanker and got him into 40k.
One of the key disntinctions in DtF books is that Stirling agreed with you. Quite a few "trained" LARP nerds got killed in the first year or so, and the survivors were people that had taken their roleplay very seriously indeed before the Change happened. Norman Arminger was a SCA "noble", but had effectively trained & equipped himself as a Norman knight, and recruited others like him. The Bearkiller's primary sword instructor was another HEMA part-timer.
It is very good, but it suffers from the Eric Flint 1632 delusion that 21st century morals would be appliable to previous centuries. They are not. Some people would go full zealot for the change and the rest would oppose them to DEATH. And people from the 21st century would go native with indecent haste.
10:55 for the record, when the subject was broached on a FB group he's admin of, Stirling flat out denied that Arminger was based in any way on Turtledove
Thank you for the time and effort you put into making this video, the moment I saw it I had a huge smile on my face. The Emberverse is genuinely one of my favorite series of books and they’ve had a big effect on my life. It’s fun to see someone analyze them.
A great many anti-government people moved to Idaho and the surrounding areas a couple of generations ago. Apocalyptic stories tend to walk hand in hand with this mindset.
I always preferred the Island in a Sea of Time trilogy that acts as the prequel/counter story to the Emberverse line. There the modern technology (or whatever is on the Island of Nantucket at the time of the event) gets transported back in time to the Bronze Age. Excellent series and I was quite surprised when I found out he’d written about the world the island had left behind when it went back in time.
It's wonderful for two books, had moments of brilliance yet completely broke down in the third. A shame. I loved that world and wanted to see what happened.
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq Walker had too much plot armor, his empire developed much too quickly by comparison to the entire island of Nantucket and it only got worse as he bounced back from each defeat
That was an excellent, thought-provoking analysis, Feral. It's been a while since I read "The Emberverse," but your artwork rang true, and was a real treat to see! Thanks for making and sharing this video! And please . . . consider reading Stirling's "The Peshawar Lancers." I promise that you'll be hooked once you start reading. I can't wait to hear your analysis (and see your artwork) for this one! 278th Like.
"He missed important details, not only of the new world _around_ him, but _in himself._ Perhaps it's a lesson to be taken from the books. ... _That,_ and, 'Don't take chances with cannibals; just put 'em _right_ down'." Seriously, _why_ do the peoples of the post-apocalyptic multiverse need to keep _learning_ this _lesson?_ Some family _always_ turns to _eating_ hospitality seekers _the instant_ they've licked the last can of Campbell's clean, and they're _always_ allowed to fester until they're a _tribe_ big enough to start raiding settlements for slaves and stew meat and become the local scary bedtime story. _How does this keep happening?!_ "'People' don't eat people" is probably one of the oldest, deepest, most universal rules we have as a species!
Inevitably, with each video of yours I watch, my Movies/Shows to watch and books yo read pules grow larger and larger. I'm gonna have to step up my game.
The same with my read/watch list as recommendations roll in. I can't keep up, but I'm getting all kinds of great stuff I wouldn't have looked at otherwise.
Immediately watched this video. Huge fan of the series. I'd love to see you do more vids on this, especially with the Church Universal and Triumphant arc and how that relates to some historical kingdoms/movements. Great stuff!
There is also a whole genre of stories on the alternate history website dealing with people or places getting displaced in time and space based off of the island in the sea of time series. It is usually just tagged as ISOT on the site.
I never felt really old until listening to the intro of this video and realizing that Dies The Fire was published twenty years ago. I remember reading the advance reader copy for it in high school. Ugh.
Ahhh Dies the Fire! Glad you got to this one. I picked it up in college at the library, I was probably the only person to hold that book the semester I found it. Read it, re-read it, then read it again. Loved the concept! I was always the Post-Apocalyptic, mutant monsters, cannibal bands and raiders, survival at all costs type of book reader. This was my gateway book into fantasy! Thanks for covering it, love getting a fresh perspective on the books I like!
So… I live in Salem and worked in the capitol for decades. After I read this, I and my buddies came up with a plan that includes using the capitol as a fortified castle in case of a civilization fall.
"What if the physics of combustion simply stopped working" reminds me of an alternate history setting that I've long wanted. One small but significant difference: humans are incapable of creating nuclear fission. (Maybe they try but some subtle difference in physics means they simply can't make it work, or maybe uranium and plutonium simply don't exist on Earth.)
My inability to suspend my disbelief for the sudden change of the laws of physics without the sudden death of every breathing being on the planet made me throw this book in the donation's box of the local library. I tried, but the narrative didn't help. I had just finished reading the 4th book of Song of Ice and Fire and was fed up with depressing stories full of convoluted plots and socio-political commentary. I tried once more but again ended deleting the epub after a year of not having read beyond half of it. I admit I sped up through the video and I get the same feeling I did when reading the book, although to a lesser extent, seeing as how I like the Feral Historian's other videos and his narration and analysis are superb. Revolution also turned me off a great deal, probably the same issues. Godawful was my review of that show for my fantasy and science fiction club, although many disagreed with me.
It's a book that definitely has to be a approached from the _magic happens and it isn't going to make sense_ fantasy standpoint. Revolution . . . I abandoned that show fairly early on, though for me it was character writing that didn't work more than having to accept the nanite magic so the story could happen.
@@feralhistorian Agreed, Revolution was horrible on the character front. I guess that as much of a fantasy and sci-fi enthusiast there are certain approaches and writing styles that do not vibe with me enough to keep my attention. Not all post-apocalyptic scenarios cause me pause. I really enjoyed your analysis of Mad Max as a societal collapse induced apocalypse, it was quite illuminating. Thanks for your reply. Looking forwards to your next deep dive into the themes of such fine literature. Cheers!
Wow...20 years! I loved this when it first came out and reread it many times, along with all the rest of the series. The first few remain my favorites. I always loved having an evil SCA geek as a major villain! Then, later, having the baddies as followers of Madam Blavatsky? *chef's kiss* Perfection! EDIT: I approve of your appraisal. Honestly, I was afraid to hear your thoughts on one of my favorite 'verses. Well done, sir.
Heck yah I always wanted to hear your thoughts on one of my favorite book series, hopefully you can talk a bit about the rest of the series, or island in the sea of time!
@@erikawhelan4673 if i were to include magic in the system it would come at a cost. Like in Dungeon Crawl Classics if you cast a spell you roll on a table to see its effects..some great..some horrible for you or your party
They even kind of set that up as a possibility in later books because of how often the Rangers go on guests to find hidden trwasure or fight bandits etc
@@tiggytheimpaler5483 right? and i wanna even say that they do mention playing dungeons and dragons in the books. i mean it would be something perfect to play in a post apocalyptic setting with no access to electricity, ect
The Emberverse series...Well, it's about damned time, yo! Thank you for dedicating an episode on it. I got into the orig trig back when it came out and hoped they'd make a TV series out of it (before streaming became a thing). I think Stirling nailed it how easily new cultures emerge out of myth, how quickly and readily humanity will yearn for that kind of oral legend stuff when the standard means of media suddenly vanish. I particularly loved how in the next trilogy how the post-Change generation views stories of the world before yet they carry on certain artifacts of the past like singing "Eye of the Tiger" (by Survivor, of course, not Katy Perry!)
@@itsallfunandgames723 It would be a good supplement or replacement for chain mail, until it ran out (unless they can figure out some way to manufacture more).
This book series was highly influential to my early 20s. It was one of the first that looked at the destruction of modern society and paved the way for future prepper "porn" novels in the late 2000's. The final fight between Arminger and Bearkiller is outstanding as is the spin on how the next generation has to confront an actual Evil. The forces that created the flash unleashed untold suffering with their careless actions but it did make for some amazing stories.
In one of the later books, one of the main characters travels to Iowa, and there is a new nobility there, made up of the former farmers. Because of this Founder's Effect, overalls and John Deere hats become the epitome of high style. I thought that was a fun visual.
Have you read David Weber's Safehold series? It takes a similar premise (humanity is forced to live in pre-industrial conditions), but rather than looking at the beginning of such a society, it looks at what happens in several hundred years as that society grows and changes and runs up to the technological wall they're allowed to reach.
Marvelous work! So many kindred spirits in the comments with love to hate book recommendations. Thank you as always for a great review and references. As a once HEMA student (Hang head in shame at learning the blade meme) I did so after reading this trilogy. Scottish broadsword and targe, Wishing I was a Mckenzie (Damn those hippy redhead chicks, my kryptonite) to then be beaten by a redcoat at Culloden had me wishing I was more Equilibrium Gun Fu skilled than Renaissance Paradoxes of Defence (George Silver). Maybe in this setting Hutton or Angelo are more suited. Alas it was all but a dream, hopefully our future is more Star Trek and less Turtledoves World war series, Aliens getting high on Ginger seems a bit much at the moment!
I was wondering if you ever watched "No Maps for These Territories". It is mostly Just William Gibson sitting in the back of a car travelling cross country and talking about modern life while various visuals play over the windows but it is an intresting talk and has a style and subject matter you might find interesting. On the down side it has Bono and the "Edge" in it for what ever reason but it is just mainly Gibson talking.
I may go back and try to revisit this based on how much I enjoyed your other recommendations but I tried a couple Emberverse books before and they didn't catch me. Oddly enough though I really enjoyed his collab w/ David Drake "The General" series
Gotta be honest, the idea that after the apocalypse a bunch of Renaissance Fayre nerds will inherit the earth and build a new empire feels kind of self-indulgent.
Pretty cool to see you do a video on this. I read the first six books in the series but fell off because instead of finishing the second major story, the author seemed to just keep pushing new parties to add to the final battle that I assume was pending. I think one of the parts of the series that really annoyed me was the concept of so many groups returning to old religions based on their ethnicity. Still, the story had some decent ideas and wasn't a bad read when it was still moving forward. Turtledove is on my reading list. Yeah. Long list, but his work is definitely there.
In 2010 my local Borders was closing so I went to the fantasy section and grabbed a stack of books that cost next to nothing. This first book was one of them, still haven't read it. After this video I think I'll give it read. But now looking back it's obvious that my late uncle did read this series. I had a conversation with him that started with him asking me what sword I'd use in the apocalypse. I joked that I'd use a meteorite sword. When he asked for a real answer I said either a longword or a falchion. At the time I had already dabbled in some HEMA and a Hapkido sword style. And he gave me his predictable nerd answer, at the time, katana. I asked why would I just use a gun? And he laid out this stories premise and how he would try to some thing similar to this books antagonist, he was a history nerd like the character in the book. And I mentioned that if I had a competing civ next to his and we came into conflict I would win easily. When asked why I pointed out that rather than waste my time collecting swords I would of gathered modern hunting bows and crossbows. I would of also focused on collecting all the high powered air rifles, you know the kind that can put down a deer. Back to your video, I think another group of people not really considered, again I haven't read the book so maybe it is, are trained martial artists. Another story, I spent most of my youth doing wrestling, karate and boxing. The first time I held a practice sword was when a friend, who had been doing Hapkido for years, wanted to have a sword sparing session. My instinct was to switch from my orthodox stance to a southpaw and just jab thrust. He got very frustrated with how untouchable I was while I lite him up with pokes. And there have been lots of videos in recent times of modern martial artist trying out HEMA and they almost always do well right from the start. I mean from my experience its still fighting but now you have more reach.
You are far more kind to the series and its author than they deserve, even Turtledoves wildest premises and leaps to conclusions were far more grounded in reality and how societies actually work.
I think it is finished for all practical purposes, and personally think it should be, if it weren't. I would probably not enjoy a sequel to Drakon very much; I didn't really *dislike* Drakon, but I didn't think it was at good as the main trilogy. If it hadn't been a Draka book, I probably wouldn't have liked it as much as I did; I liked the mirror that the Domination held up to Western society and its relative originality (and I'll admit that, when I was a teen and first encountered the series, I really appreciated their sexual libertinitism), but Drakon felt like he was cribbing hard from the Terminator movies. YMMV obvs
A very good video. It's interesting how post-apocalypses have so much to see on socio-political systems and culture. a little on this, but your Halloween video on banal bureaucracy mixed with horror movie supernatural stuff makes me think you'd like the Monument Mythos on TH-cam, which is all about the normalization of horrific supernatural phenomena being a normalized part of politics and even the international scene, to some degree even for the general public. It's also just damn good horror, and individual videos are reasonably short and digestible. you'd get a good amount to say from it.
A very good point about the necessary building blocks for a new social order: First it has to work, second it has to be self-reinforcing. Looking around the room at modernity, it's particularly the latter point that I feel the current culture is failing to accomplish. The elements that work all seem to running on fumes or borrowed time, and there's a LOT of propaganda directly aimed at limiting or ending the continued replication of family units.
The good point of the book is to show how the world of 20th century technology can't be erased without wiping out the fundamental laws that allow the universe to exist. It's worthwhile to recognize the 'arrogance of ignorance', which is when anyone uses the argument of "mankind doesn't know everything" as a blanket excuse to justify absurdity. The situation Stirling imagined had much deeper effects, obviously. After all, if thermodynamics isn't working any more, then friction might not, either. (Good luck canning food.) And water that doesn't expand when it freezes would probably do other strange things.
One thing I will note, given that Rotational Power would likely still work, some Early Water-wheel factory designs could come back into fashion--machinery within being powered by the torque created by said water wheel. In fact, this concept could even be used in other areas, as long as you can create and apply rotation, you can do quite a bit (for instance, harvesting crops with a rail-attached combine harvester powered by water or wind.)
I came to the same conclusion while reading the books over and over and over again. I actually drew up plans for something like this when i was deployed to Afghanistan but the locals demanded cash instead I plan on using a scaled down mule powered one on my old guy retirement farm
Last time I checked the SCAs big gathering Pensic War would bring in close to 10K people. More people than some towns. A lot of them know how to hunt, craft, and in general survive. Sooooo this would be a good reason the SCA use to be on a FBI watch list because if shit goes sideways it could easily become a small civilization
@feralhistorian I'd be really interested to see you do a review of the recent film Godzilla Minus One. While you don't strike me as someone who'd be into Godzilla in general, I do think you would find a lot to remark on in Godzilla Minus One.
I liked that the different ideologies were each allowed to succeed in their own ways. Most sociological apocalypse stories are so one sided. "There's the ______ way and all the wrong ways whose followers all die" is what the style normally is. Or fallout, where everyone are idiots awaiting a savior.
The Turtledove comparison is hilarious if you’ve ever watched him on Twitter. I love Harry too, but he’s pugnacious in a way that almost makes him seem smaller somehow.
Interesting, I kind of feel the same way about Sterling. When I was reading the book there were times it seemed to me Sterling sneering at rural people of the Mountain West. Of course I read Dies The Fire when I was 16 you tend to be a little sensitive at that age. Also didn't help it was my friends very "I'm better than everyone in a small town" older sister who recommended the series to me. But I Remember loving John Carpenter at that same age and knowing he philosophically disagreed with me on a lot of things, but I didn't see anything in his work that would suggest he hated my entire family, friends, and community. Probably a little of column A and a little column B. Or I'm just delusional.
IDK, even though Harry’s politics largely align with mine, it still diminishes him a bit. Having experienced the opposite (an author/scholar I respected immensely with politics that are antithetical, if not outright hostile to mine) I’ve concluded that for the sake of your stories, it’s probably best to have the account under your name be the most anodyne shit imaginable, and a second account named something Vulgar where you do your political streetfighting(internet edition)
@@Supertroy1974 I dunno, I feel knowing an author's leanings helps me understand why they came to the conclusions they did for the choices in their stories Granted I don't exactly want to know what their politics are all the time so it would be good for them to separate those maybe
@@ThatGuy-mt7hq Stirling lives in a little mountain town in the southwest (New Mexico). He's not the kind of guy to sneer at either mountain folk or westerners.
I made some speculations, which I shared over on FB, that Norman Arminger was well ahead of the typical (1990s) SCA stick jock curve. In 1998. HEMA itself was pretty nascent, ARMA was still known as HACA, and even in HEMA groups, there were methods and assumptions that only after a lot of examination and testing out of source materials (fechtbuchs) in retrospect, prove laughable, or at least awkward. Stirling confirmed my speculations that Armiger had been doing a LOT of Pre-Change studying and practicing out of then available texts, so when his does his public demonstration of slaughtering four government and military officials in a mismatched "combat", Armiger doesn't move and strike at all like the somewhat stiff "stick and board" Society fighter. In fact, the gangbangers, bikers, and Russian mobsters Norman expands his aristocracy with, may have had a much easier time learning historically based medieval-style fighting than the long term Society fighters--the former wouldn't have to unlearn sports competition, heavy safety emphasis reflexes and patterns.
you used a lot of clips of Revolution in this. When Sterling was asked if the show was based on his books at a con panel in 2012 he said "my lawyer says there's nothing actionable"
Maybe the Walking Dead writer's had brushed through a copy of these books too.
Funny enough, Sony has the film rights for the books and has pitched a show to HBO but game of thrones took precedent and sterling shot donw the initial scripts because they tried to do that stupid shit where everything has tiddies in it
@@jelkel25 Kirkman is a hack, he undoubtedly lifted
Revolution had some dumb things in it but I loved the premise. Everyone going back to muskets and swords because it’s extremely hard to make cases bullets. Or that Georgia adapted to steam power. Or that Texas literally remained the same
There was a circa 1986 book, which I think was called 'The Change" which had the basic concept, and whose fans say did it better than Stirling.
As a rancher and former farmer I can attest that the pace of development of the various different societies in the series are far, far, far beyond what would actually be achievable in a post collapse world without fossil fuel subsidy (which is in fact what almost all modern technology at its base is).
Fun reads none the less.
"Dark Lords are far more epic than competent administrators..."
As an author, I can absolutely attest to the validity of this statement. If Tolkien had written Sauron as a slightly quirky yet ultimately effective Executive Director of Mordor, I don't think the story would've resonated down the generations as it has, spawning a six-movie franchise.
Six? With two Rankin-Bass films and a Bakshi film on top of the Jackson flicks, you're looking at nine that I'm aware of off the top of my head.
I respectfully disagree. One thing that has sworn me off from modern fiction is all the Mary Sue's, Marty Stu's, and villains who owe their Dark Lordness and position to the supernatural, or magic, or existing before time for the sole purpose of being a powerful villain. How utterly lame and one-dimensional. Why can't your Dark Lord be all Dark Lordly because he's competent? Stalin was a textbook example of a sociopath - literally ticking all the boxes in the DSM - but unlike Mao and Hitler, he was competent at wielding power, administering his criminal regime, and actually succeeded at forcing the Soviet Union into a semi-modern State. Which is why the turd lasted as long as he did.
@@juliancate7089 Havelock Vetinari is far more terrifying, and entertaining, than Sauron. Fact is that you never even see Sauron. He is just off somewhere doing evil overlord stuff.
I think Sauron works as a character precisely because he is not an actual character. Every '80s swords and sorcery flick fails because the dark lord du jour is shown, and he is revealed to be a flat cut-out of a villain. If you are going to show the evil leader you just about have to reveal him as a competent administrator.
And yes, I just implied that Lord Vetinari is evil. Well, isn't he?
And Sauron, a bean counter who got in a silly mood and decided that he needed more columns for his spreadsheet.
A practical guide to evil shows a great example of what dark lords being competent administators would look like.
That setting have magic tho, so the methods used could only work with modern engineering in RLalt..
Pseudo-medieval technology & government aside, reading these books (especially the first book) will make you think long and hard about just where your food comes from, and how easy it is for us to eat in these modern times. Humans spent most of history farming, but barely a tithe of a tithe think about it today as directly impacting their lives. (at least in the West)
This reminds me of that id ee ot Bloomberg's comment about poking a hole in the ground, dropping in a seed, and watching the food grow... that "anyone" could be a farmer.
Soviet Union and PRC both learned differently.
Both times, millions of people went hungry... terminally.
Man I love it when the algorithm finally gives me something worth a damn.
This channel is awesome. New books to read. New ideas for writing. A cool host. What else do I need?
Ya, same here. Been enjoying the videos
I'd expect that in this world, a platoon of Marines reamed with spears and shields would still be a formidable force. Unit cohesion and military discipline would give a distinct edge over street gangs, and (more hypothetically) bayonet technique translates somewhat to a spear.
Riot cops replacing their batons with more lethal options would also be a force to be reckoned with, perhaps even more so. They already use tactics reminiscent of a Roman legion.
That is almost a verbatim quote in one of the first major battles by one of the primary characters in the first DtF book: "If we had to face a hundred Norman warriors or Roman legionnaires, they'd mop the floor with us. They'd know what they're doing and we still don't..."
And one of the primary DtF primary characters IS a former Marine. and it is funny how he translates Marine tactical training/idea into "we're using swords & bows now". One minor bit that is funny as heck is he never gets used to the idea that two opposing armies can assemble within eye-sight of one another and nobody is getting killed yet. Combat ranges are frequently "noogie range" as he puts it.
There was a group in the series that was led by another veteran that recreated the Roman Legion model for their military.
IIRC, that was "the Republic of Boise "? @Shackman1972
@@Shackman1972 Fight, Boise, Fight!!! U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!
(and a goddamn tragic emulation of Rome it was)
In Idaho arose a former officer who gathered folk around him to found The Reconstituted US. It was only him and his followers at first (mostly his troops) but he trained them in Roman armor, weapons and tactics. later in the Emberverse they would be valuable allies to Mike & Juniper.
As a bicycle mechanic, my grief with the books was how hundreds of armored soldiers rode decades old bicycles with no spare parts or maintenance. Still a fun series.
Every time i run into a, "Technology don't work anymore" shtick, my brain always butt's in with, "those natural phenomenon that the writer says don't work no more are pretty vital to the proper functioning of human bodies. "
Ken Larson early on uses this as evidence for the Alien Space Bats
Yeah thats a huge thing in the books too and goes on to be oretty important in the later books as the series goes from post apocalypse fantasy to hard fantasy
On a side note... Many (many!) years ago, I happened to be in an alt-hist chat where Stirling would occasionally check in under his nom de guerre of "joatsimon". This was, IIRC, after the first three of his Drakaverse books had been published, before Drakon. One evening, someone demanded (demanded!) that he justify his historically allowing the Draka to rise to power and conquer the world. His reply was wonderful, along the lines of, "People buy my books. That is justification enough. I don't answer to you."
alt.hist on usenet? I remember that.
Beautifully mercenary and honest.
They also banned him soon after that.
I also corresponded with Steve under that nome de guerre, a little bit later, debating, of all things, would a T-800 Terminator be a match for Gwendolyn Ingolfsson.
@@robertlehnert4148 oh that terminator is so doomed. Probably even in straight up combat but definitely the moment weapons or even the most basic tricks and tactics come into play.
It's massively amusing that so many people don't even blink when a story has FTL travel, but are personally offended when a steam engine won't work.
Well, seeing how one is a made up science that isnt real and is probably never going to be real while the other is real.
It's easier to suspend disbelief about future technology than technology that we already have.
Because there's no logical way an engine powered on STEAM should not work. This isn't an engineering issue with people being unable to manufacture the type of combustion engine seen in a car, steam engines are incredibly basic and you can even make one with a large old fashioned kettle. It won't move a train but it works as a scalable prototype.
@@KarmaSpaz12Alien space magic. Compression supposedly works differently after the event, adding a “time component”.
The ultimate explanation, revealed a bit more than midway through the series, is 'The Powers" (aka, God) could see mankind was headed into an AI hellscape, so a Great Flood like reset was the kinder option.
Your point about the D&D character is the same conclusion I came to after reading the first book. When I started in the SCA everyone was telling me to read it, when I reduced my involvement to just attending a feast or two every year I read it and barely finished the first book.
The zima sippers trembled as the power blinked out forever, and on that day a new khan was born on the steppes.
"Khan" or "Con"?
@FarSeeker8 Khan
@@wynfrithnichtwo8423 I suspect there was an implication that just whizzed right on by. I'm not saying I identified it, but I definitely saw it go past.
I SEE you..
@@Opforvideo2 Ugh, don't even joke. When you stab something through the chest with a sword, it should die, not punch you hard enough to dent armor with a half-severed hand.
7:49 Quoting directly from the book, the first time Mike is presented with the "additions" to his Bearkiller armor:
Astrid (shiny eyed) "ALL HAIL THE BEAR LORD!!!!"
Mike: "OH F- NO!!!!" (but he gets shouted down and forced to wear the getup for morale reasons)
LOL Hakka paale!
Easily one of my favorite parts tbh. I can only imagine how much of a pain it was to fight at his amateur level wearing the kit he was wearinf while also dealing with a 20lb bear cloak as well lol
@@tiggytheimpaler5483 He didn't wear it for combat.
I'm glad you finally took up the Emberverse! Its one of my favorite series. And you are pretty spot on when it comes to Norman; he becomes a dark lord because in the end, that's what he really wants. He literally planned his Black Tower of Todenangst BEFORE the Change, because he liked the RP so much. Economically speaking, his neo-feudalism is just massively inefficient compared to his more adaptable neighbors. Important also is Sandra Arminger, Norman's wife. She's a very smart woman who does more of the administrative tasks and organizes the women in this incredibly misogynistic society Norman builds, arranging marriages between SCA girls and the gang leaders Norman recruits, to bind the new aristocracy together. After his death she is regent of the PPA, and she basically does what you mention; reforms it somewhat to make it much more like actual medieval world, in order to provide opportunity and buy in from the peasant class. She has to, because the peace treaty the ends the Protector's War gives everyone in the signatory states right of free movement; now the PPA peasants can safely and legally leave for greener pastures.
Very early in the series I was thinking that Sandra was the real brains behind the PPA.
@ that is literally said by main characters many times and minor characters, especially the lords who replace those who died in the Protector’s War, also say it.
"...during the auto-immune response of 2020..."
I shall, henceforth and forever, refer the the corona festival as the auto-immune response of 2020. And, when people laud me for my cleverness, I shall bask in my unearned glory.
Even better than Critical Drinker's phrase "unspecified virus of unknown origin"
I grew up PNW and enjoyed The Postman, may pick this up now.
Brin using the locations I travel may have lodged in my noggin the notion I could write such books, too. Stay tuned.
Please do! Among other things, the books are very specific about the locations the characters travel through, and how they have Changed.
The Postman was an amazing movie and it was sad that it is probably the Kosner movie with the least fanfare
Also even in that movie Tom Petty already looked 90
@@victorkreig6089 The movie was good, but it skipped big stuff from the book I would have preferred to see.
Hmmm. I wonder if Fallout's NCR was always some sort of tribute to Postman's "Bear Flag Republic"...?
@@MM22966IMHO, the book was much better than the film, but I did like the movie.
The proposed alternative of assigning people to teams directed by competent farmers is basically what Iowa does, it still leads to feudalism but of a dramatically less blood-soaked fashion
I wouldn't call them competent, just stubborn lol
2:59 well…the spear has been the primary long arm and hunting implement of multiple species of humanity for millions of years. We only dropped it when we hit industrial warfare.
They’re simple to use and train with unlike swords.
And to make. With factories gone and very few competent smiths around, there's tremendous value in a weapon that any semi-competent handyman can make using the most basic tools.
And it's practical for hunting also, meaning the spearman is practicing even when he's just looking for lunch.
That old saw doesn't really hold up much when you start introducing shields and missiles into the scenario from practice.
We still kept the spear we just put the pointy bit on a rifle.
The larpers with the swords would be scary........until all of the bow hunters showed up.
Sounds like an interesting series. I think I'll check it out.
Congrats, you've worked out the basic plot already.
Yeap yeap, one of the many things that makes the Makenzie’s so freaking dangerous is that one of their leaders is a veteran bowhunter and makes bows as a hobby. Eventually longbow archer becomes the Mackenzie’s favorite sport and the backbone of their army. At one point in the story they recreate the Battle of Agincourt.
Really? Sterling is a smart fellow. Still would like to read the series.
@@gadzilla6664 I cannot recommend the series highly enough, along with the Island in a Sea of time trilogy it spun off from.
That almost exact thing happens in teh first book: Larpers and thugs with swords facing off against bow-armed Mackenzies, who've been trained by a professional bower & former SAS commando...
May I recommend for you H. Beam Piper I seldom hear about anyone who knows about him nowadays. I first read his book Space Vikings' when I was in high school back in the early sixties and managed to eventually get all his books. Sadly I felt he died to young and underappreciated. After watching this I would suggest Lord Kalvin of Otherwhen. Also, as others have said, why this channel does not have over 100K subs is beyond me.
Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen should be on the list too. Poor Beam, on my list of people to visit if I ever get my hands on a time machine, before they say goodbye and to cheer them up.
Someone recommended Lord Kalvan to me a few days ago in a totally different context. It's on the way now.
Most people have easily explained entertainment as their comedic standard, is possibly why?
@@feralhistorian I deeply appreciate your response and I apologize for spelling Kalvan's name incorrectly. At my age I should have known better then to trust my memory. My deepest regards sir.
@@johnkretz7734 Oh I heartily agree with that sentiment and if you do find said machine please take me with you.
Brother I have had the worst last few months and I discovered your channel and it’s given a lot of food for thought keep making your videos man it’s given me a little reprieve
I darken the door of a HEMA gymn several times a week and have praciced saber for years. I also have the AR, armor, and LARPtastic tactical moonwalk required to be an extra in a low end direct to consoomer war movie. I'd sooner drill my 2A friends in saber for two weeks before relying on the LARPy DnD players to handle kill or be killed situations. I'm not saying this to demean others or inflate egos, I'm saying that the believability of fantasy nerds taking over the world is hurt by the fact that they're escapists, not the personality types that master the lethal implements of today's world.
Most of them that I knew were degenerates.
Yeah I kinda have to agree here. The idea of a bunch of hema guys taking over any serious level of the modern world is going to end with a LOT of dead hema nerds once people learn that Molotovs still work and that a guy with a sword has no defense against having rocks thrown at them or being set on fire with all that gasoline that no longer makes cars run…
The Western worlds militaries are full of fantasy/sci-fi nerds my uncle was a SF operator and DMs at his local game store, my friends dad was a tanker and got him into 40k.
One of the key disntinctions in DtF books is that Stirling agreed with you. Quite a few "trained" LARP nerds got killed in the first year or so, and the survivors were people that had taken their roleplay very seriously indeed before the Change happened. Norman Arminger was a SCA "noble", but had effectively trained & equipped himself as a Norman knight, and recruited others like him. The Bearkiller's primary sword instructor was another HEMA part-timer.
You are cordially invited to my barricades, when comes the Revolution.
ISLAND IN THE SEA OF TIME REFERENCED
MY FAVORITE SERIES
You should absolutely read it, if you haven't. It's absolutely excellent.
And it has loony lesbian sailors. And they're awesome.
It is very good, but it suffers from the Eric Flint 1632 delusion that 21st century morals would be appliable to previous centuries. They are not. Some people would go full zealot for the change and the rest would oppose them to DEATH. And people from the 21st century would go native with indecent haste.
Great series, wish he would have wrote more of that.
10:55 for the record, when the subject was broached on a FB group he's admin of, Stirling flat out denied that Arminger was based in any way on Turtledove
Ya he said he has no idea where people get that from
Good to see you covering another SM Stirling series. I'd love to see you cover Island in the Sea of Time and The Peshawar Lancers.
Ditto!
@@thomaskendall452 Three, for all three!
Thank you for the time and effort you put into making this video, the moment I saw it I had a huge smile on my face. The Emberverse is genuinely one of my favorite series of books and they’ve had a big effect on my life. It’s fun to see someone analyze them.
Now patiently waiting (somewhat) for Feral's Turtledove video(s) 🙏🙏🙏
I keep noticing apocalypse stories in Idaho, where I live
Pacific Northwest turns out writers. Even Frank Herbert
Potatoes are good survival food. They go with anything, can be grown relatively easily, and kill off anyone too stupid to cook them properly.
You can fish, you can hunt, you can establish hill-forts outside the ruins of major metropolis and interstates....
its all the Californians moving in
A great many anti-government people moved to Idaho and the surrounding areas a couple of generations ago. Apocalyptic stories tend to walk hand in hand with this mindset.
🤔 “Trauma-fueled eccentricity”?
🤔That’s a new one for me. Writing this down…
Now I have an official description to tell my daughters. 😊
Great video as always. Thank you.
I always preferred the Island in a Sea of Time trilogy that acts as the prequel/counter story to the Emberverse line. There the modern technology (or whatever is on the Island of Nantucket at the time of the event) gets transported back in time to the Bronze Age. Excellent series and I was quite surprised when I found out he’d written about the world the island had left behind when it went back in time.
It's wonderful for two books, had moments of brilliance yet completely broke down in the third. A shame. I loved that world and wanted to see what happened.
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq Walker had too much plot armor, his empire developed much too quickly by comparison to the entire island of Nantucket and it only got worse as he bounced back from each defeat
That was an excellent, thought-provoking analysis, Feral. It's been a while since I read "The Emberverse," but your artwork rang true, and was a real treat to see! Thanks for making and sharing this video!
And please . . . consider reading Stirling's "The Peshawar Lancers." I promise that you'll be hooked once you start reading. I can't wait to hear your analysis (and see your artwork) for this one!
278th Like.
Peshawar Lancers is one of three books I'm reading now, alternating between depending on mood.
@@feralhistorian Enjoy!
"He missed important details, not only of the new world _around_ him, but _in himself._ Perhaps it's a lesson to be taken from the books. ... _That,_ and, 'Don't take chances with cannibals; just put 'em _right_ down'."
Seriously, _why_ do the peoples of the post-apocalyptic multiverse need to keep _learning_ this _lesson?_ Some family _always_ turns to _eating_ hospitality seekers _the instant_ they've licked the last can of Campbell's clean, and they're _always_ allowed to fester until they're a _tribe_ big enough to start raiding settlements for slaves and stew meat and become the local scary bedtime story.
_How does this keep happening?!_ "'People' don't eat people" is probably one of the oldest, deepest, most universal rules we have as a species!
Inevitably, with each video of yours I watch, my Movies/Shows to watch and books yo read pules grow larger and larger. I'm gonna have to step up my game.
The same with my read/watch list as recommendations roll in. I can't keep up, but I'm getting all kinds of great stuff I wouldn't have looked at otherwise.
I've been binging your videos and enjoying the subjects and your perspective on them. Cheers.
Used to watch you as precaution for futures I don't wanna see, now I watch you as training for well... very possible futures.
Mathilda (Arminger's daughter) meeting people outside the PPA: "Don't they understand that 'Princess' is a job description?"
Immediately watched this video. Huge fan of the series. I'd love to see you do more vids on this, especially with the Church Universal and Triumphant arc and how that relates to some historical kingdoms/movements. Great stuff!
One of my favorite books. Really made me want to learn archery and how to forage for food.
There is also a whole genre of stories on the alternate history website dealing with people or places getting displaced in time and space based off of the island in the sea of time series. It is usually just tagged as ISOT on the site.
I never felt really old until listening to the intro of this video and realizing that Dies The Fire was published twenty years ago. I remember reading the advance reader copy for it in high school. Ugh.
I was deployed when the 4th book came out lol. I feel you
Thank you FH. I've been meaning to read Dies the Fire; and now I am.
Almost 30k awesome and congratulations 🎊
Artos and Montival - marching to Corwin!
FOR ARTOS AND MONTIVAL!!!!!!!
Ahhh Dies the Fire! Glad you got to this one. I picked it up in college at the library, I was probably the only person to hold that book the semester I found it. Read it, re-read it, then read it again. Loved the concept! I was always the Post-Apocalyptic, mutant monsters, cannibal bands and raiders, survival at all costs type of book reader. This was my gateway book into fantasy! Thanks for covering it, love getting a fresh perspective on the books I like!
So… I live in Salem and worked in the capitol for decades.
After I read this, I and my buddies came up with a plan that includes using the capitol as a fortified castle in case of a civilization fall.
Wooh! Let's get it on, another video from my favourite contrary motherducker with whom I often disagree!
"What if the physics of combustion simply stopped working" reminds me of an alternate history setting that I've long wanted. One small but significant difference: humans are incapable of creating nuclear fission. (Maybe they try but some subtle difference in physics means they simply can't make it work, or maybe uranium and plutonium simply don't exist on Earth.)
My inability to suspend my disbelief for the sudden change of the laws of physics without the sudden death of every breathing being on the planet made me throw this book in the donation's box of the local library. I tried, but the narrative didn't help. I had just finished reading the 4th book of Song of Ice and Fire and was fed up with depressing stories full of convoluted plots and socio-political commentary.
I tried once more but again ended deleting the epub after a year of not having read beyond half of it. I admit I sped up through the video and I get the same feeling I did when reading the book, although to a lesser extent, seeing as how I like the Feral Historian's other videos and his narration and analysis are superb.
Revolution also turned me off a great deal, probably the same issues. Godawful was my review of that show for my fantasy and science fiction club, although many disagreed with me.
The books are good, but yeah revolution was tripe at best
It's a book that definitely has to be a approached from the _magic happens and it isn't going to make sense_ fantasy standpoint.
Revolution . . . I abandoned that show fairly early on, though for me it was character writing that didn't work more than having to accept the nanite magic so the story could happen.
@@feralhistorian Agreed, Revolution was horrible on the character front. I guess that as much of a fantasy and sci-fi enthusiast there are certain approaches and writing styles that do not vibe with me enough to keep my attention.
Not all post-apocalyptic scenarios cause me pause. I really enjoyed your analysis of Mad Max as a societal collapse induced apocalypse, it was quite illuminating.
Thanks for your reply. Looking forwards to your next deep dive into the themes of such fine literature. Cheers!
Wow...20 years! I loved this when it first came out and reread it many times, along with all the rest of the series. The first few remain my favorites. I always loved having an evil SCA geek as a major villain! Then, later, having the baddies as followers of Madam Blavatsky? *chef's kiss* Perfection!
EDIT: I approve of your appraisal. Honestly, I was afraid to hear your thoughts on one of my favorite 'verses. Well done, sir.
That was awesome, as a long time SCAdian seeing them as the bad guys was really a switch!
Heck yah I always wanted to hear your thoughts on one of my favorite book series, hopefully you can talk a bit about the rest of the series, or island in the sea of time!
great book series, i've always thought it would be an interesting ttrpg campaign setting
I agree! I've been trying to run one for a long time.
@@erikawhelan4673 if i were to include magic in the system it would come at a cost. Like in Dungeon Crawl Classics if you cast a spell you roll on a table to see its effects..some great..some horrible for you or your party
They even kind of set that up as a possibility in later books because of how often the Rangers go on guests to find hidden trwasure or fight bandits etc
@@tiggytheimpaler5483 right? and i wanna even say that they do mention playing dungeons and dragons in the books. i mean it would be something perfect to play in a post apocalyptic setting with no access to electricity, ect
For sure. What system? Maybe Savage Worlds? GURPS? Not dnd, that’s for sure.
Dude your stuff always interests me, thanks for the great videos
Great video. Like someone said below; it very uncomfortably makes one realize how vulnerable our food supply is.
Thanks for the recommendation for my next series to read!. 👍🏻
Would love to see a video from you about Blood Meridian
Great presentation, thank you.
Western Oregon here as well. Was thinking your shoot locations look VERY just east of the Cascades. Love it over there!
The Emberverse series...Well, it's about damned time, yo! Thank you for dedicating an episode on it. I got into the orig trig back when it came out and hoped they'd make a TV series out of it (before streaming became a thing). I think Stirling nailed it how easily new cultures emerge out of myth, how quickly and readily humanity will yearn for that kind of oral legend stuff when the standard means of media suddenly vanish. I particularly loved how in the next trilogy how the post-Change generation views stories of the world before yet they carry on certain artifacts of the past like singing "Eye of the Tiger" (by Survivor, of course, not Katy Perry!)
I've often referred to _Eye of the Tiger_ as a "traditional hunting song."
A universe where an awareness of stab proof fabrics would make you a king.
@@itsallfunandgames723 It would be a good supplement or replacement for chain mail, until it ran out (unless they can figure out some way to manufacture more).
Changing the laws of physics is the cheapest trick to create a world. Just say "it's magic" or "it's aliens."
Just finished the first one of these books after you made them sound so cool. If anything you undersold how good they are
This book series was highly influential to my early 20s. It was one of the first that looked at the destruction of modern society and paved the way for future prepper "porn" novels in the late 2000's. The final fight between Arminger and Bearkiller is outstanding as is the spin on how the next generation has to confront an actual Evil. The forces that created the flash unleashed untold suffering with their careless actions but it did make for some amazing stories.
In one of the later books, one of the main characters travels to Iowa, and there is a new nobility there, made up of the former farmers. Because of this Founder's Effect, overalls and John Deere hats become the epitome of high style. I thought that was a fun visual.
LOVE THESE BOOKS!!! Thank you!
Oh damn, hope we can get a review or look at Stirling's Nantucket trilogy soon! It's just about my favourite book series.
Have you read David Weber's Safehold series? It takes a similar premise (humanity is forced to live in pre-industrial conditions), but rather than looking at the beginning of such a society, it looks at what happens in several hundred years as that society grows and changes and runs up to the technological wall they're allowed to reach.
This is my favorite trilogy of books ever
Well done, and thanx.
Love you style of speaking and the way you review books.
Every time you post a video, I have to add a whole nother book series to my to-read list. And I read slow!
Marvelous work! So many kindred spirits in the comments with love to hate book recommendations. Thank you as always for a great review and references.
As a once HEMA student (Hang head in shame at learning the blade meme) I did so after reading this trilogy. Scottish broadsword and targe, Wishing I was a Mckenzie (Damn those hippy redhead chicks, my kryptonite) to then be beaten by a redcoat at Culloden had me wishing I was more Equilibrium Gun Fu skilled than Renaissance Paradoxes of Defence (George Silver). Maybe in this setting Hutton or Angelo are more suited.
Alas it was all but a dream, hopefully our future is more Star Trek and less Turtledoves World war series, Aliens getting high on Ginger seems a bit much at the moment!
I loved the first couple in the series.
I was wondering if you ever watched "No Maps for These Territories".
It is mostly Just William Gibson sitting in the back of a car travelling cross country and talking about modern life while various visuals play over the windows but it is an intresting talk and has a style and subject matter you might find interesting.
On the down side it has Bono and the "Edge" in it for what ever reason but it is just mainly Gibson talking.
I may go back and try to revisit this based on how much I enjoyed your other recommendations but I tried a couple Emberverse books before and they didn't catch me. Oddly enough though I really enjoyed his collab w/ David Drake "The General" series
The premise here of losing electricity reminds me of the NBC show ‘Revolution’ which is also worth a deep dive
Many of the clips in this video were from Revolution!
I'm a big fan of youre channel and I think it would be a awesome idea to cover the bioshock games and they're ideologies
Gotta be honest, the idea that after the apocalypse a bunch of Renaissance Fayre nerds will inherit the earth and build a new empire feels kind of self-indulgent.
I liked the Island in the Sea of Time part but couldn't get into the corresponding ember verse
I love this series
Pretty cool to see you do a video on this. I read the first six books in the series but fell off because instead of finishing the second major story, the author seemed to just keep pushing new parties to add to the final battle that I assume was pending.
I think one of the parts of the series that really annoyed me was the concept of so many groups returning to old religions based on their ethnicity. Still, the story had some decent ideas and wasn't a bad read when it was still moving forward.
Turtledove is on my reading list. Yeah. Long list, but his work is definitely there.
Loved the Emberverse series.
I thoroughly enjoyed the series.
The "Great Autoimmune response of 2020" is the best facetious yet accurate description of the initial covid outbreak I have ever heart 👏👏🤣🤣
In 2010 my local Borders was closing so I went to the fantasy section and grabbed a stack of books that cost next to nothing. This first book was one of them, still haven't read it. After this video I think I'll give it read.
But now looking back it's obvious that my late uncle did read this series. I had a conversation with him that started with him asking me what sword I'd use in the apocalypse. I joked that I'd use a meteorite sword. When he asked for a real answer I said either a longword or a falchion. At the time I had already dabbled in some HEMA and a Hapkido sword style. And he gave me his predictable nerd answer, at the time, katana.
I asked why would I just use a gun? And he laid out this stories premise and how he would try to some thing similar to this books antagonist, he was a history nerd like the character in the book. And I mentioned that if I had a competing civ next to his and we came into conflict I would win easily. When asked why I pointed out that rather than waste my time collecting swords I would of gathered modern hunting bows and crossbows. I would of also focused on collecting all the high powered air rifles, you know the kind that can put down a deer.
Back to your video, I think another group of people not really considered, again I haven't read the book so maybe it is, are trained martial artists.
Another story, I spent most of my youth doing wrestling, karate and boxing. The first time I held a practice sword was when a friend, who had been doing Hapkido for years, wanted to have a sword sparing session. My instinct was to switch from my orthodox stance to a southpaw and just jab thrust. He got very frustrated with how untouchable I was while I lite him up with pokes. And there have been lots of videos in recent times of modern martial artist trying out HEMA and they almost always do well right from the start. I mean from my experience its still fighting but now you have more reach.
This makes me wonder if the Nantucket series comes next. (no, I have not read that series, just read about it)
You are far more kind to the series and its author than they deserve, even Turtledoves wildest premises and leaps to conclusions were far more grounded in reality and how societies actually work.
Im still hoping Stirling finishes his Draka series.
I think it is finished for all practical purposes, and personally think it should be, if it weren't. I would probably not enjoy a sequel to Drakon very much; I didn't really *dislike* Drakon, but I didn't think it was at good as the main trilogy. If it hadn't been a Draka book, I probably wouldn't have liked it as much as I did; I liked the mirror that the Domination held up to Western society and its relative originality (and I'll admit that, when I was a teen and first encountered the series, I really appreciated their sexual libertinitism), but Drakon felt like he was cribbing hard from the Terminator movies. YMMV obvs
@@erikawhelan4673 If done right, the trilogy could be a grand miniseries.
@Albemarle7 Agreed
@@Albemarle7Sadly the closest we’re likely to get is “the man in the high castle.”
A very good video. It's interesting how post-apocalypses have so much to see on socio-political systems and culture.
a little on this, but your Halloween video on banal bureaucracy mixed with horror movie supernatural stuff makes me think you'd like the Monument Mythos on TH-cam, which is all about the normalization of horrific supernatural phenomena being a normalized part of politics and even the international scene, to some degree even for the general public. It's also just damn good horror, and individual videos are reasonably short and digestible. you'd get a good amount to say from it.
i just cant get past the initial premise. its something i cant ignore. youre BODY would stop working properly.
@@fyrebat404 They do lampshade it. The usual explanation is “it’s god / the gods /weird alien space magic, just roll with it.”
A very good point about the necessary building blocks for a new social order: First it has to work, second it has to be self-reinforcing.
Looking around the room at modernity, it's particularly the latter point that I feel the current culture is failing to accomplish. The elements that work all seem to running on fumes or borrowed time, and there's a LOT of propaganda directly aimed at limiting or ending the continued replication of family units.
The good point of the book is to show how the world of 20th century technology can't be erased without wiping out the fundamental laws that allow the universe to exist. It's worthwhile to recognize the 'arrogance of ignorance', which is when anyone uses the argument of "mankind doesn't know everything" as a blanket excuse to justify absurdity.
The situation Stirling imagined had much deeper effects, obviously. After all, if thermodynamics isn't working any more, then friction might not, either. (Good luck canning food.) And water that doesn't expand when it freezes would probably do other strange things.
One thing I will note, given that Rotational Power would likely still work, some Early Water-wheel factory designs could come back into fashion--machinery within being powered by the torque created by said water wheel. In fact, this concept could even be used in other areas, as long as you can create and apply rotation, you can do quite a bit (for instance, harvesting crops with a rail-attached combine harvester powered by water or wind.)
I came to the same conclusion while reading the books over and over and over again. I actually drew up plans for something like this when i was deployed to Afghanistan but the locals demanded cash instead
I plan on using a scaled down mule powered one on my old guy retirement farm
The PPA uses a water powered stamping press to stamp out breastplates.
@@blockyuniverseproductions They do some pretty innovative things, like the “hippomotor,” trains powered by horses walking on treadmills.
Or, just reinvent the McCormick reaper. Complicated is awesome, until complexity drags everyone down.
@@Michaelfatman-xo7gv That would work as well. In any case, a lot can be done with mechanics and motion (even calculators).
Last time I checked the SCAs big gathering Pensic War would bring in close to 10K people. More people than some towns. A lot of them know how to hunt, craft, and in general survive. Sooooo this would be a good reason the SCA use to be on a FBI watch list because if shit goes sideways it could easily become a small civilization
Been looking forward to this one.
@feralhistorian I'd be really interested to see you do a review of the recent film Godzilla Minus One.
While you don't strike me as someone who'd be into Godzilla in general, I do think you would find a lot to remark on in Godzilla Minus One.
I liked that the different ideologies were each allowed to succeed in their own ways. Most sociological apocalypse stories are so one sided. "There's the ______ way and all the wrong ways whose followers all die" is what the style normally is. Or fallout, where everyone are idiots awaiting a savior.
Would like to see your take with a similar framing of Dorsai and Tactics of Mistake
The Turtledove comparison is hilarious if you’ve ever watched him on Twitter. I love Harry too, but he’s pugnacious in a way that almost makes him seem smaller somehow.
Interesting, I kind of feel the same way about Sterling. When I was reading the book there were times it seemed to me Sterling sneering at rural people of the Mountain West. Of course I read Dies The Fire when I was 16 you tend to be a little sensitive at that age. Also didn't help it was my friends very "I'm better than everyone in a small town" older sister who recommended the series to me. But I Remember loving John Carpenter at that same age and knowing he philosophically disagreed with me on a lot of things, but I didn't see anything in his work that would suggest he hated my entire family, friends, and community. Probably a little of column A and a little column B. Or I'm just delusional.
IDK, even though Harry’s politics largely align with mine, it still diminishes him a bit. Having experienced the opposite (an author/scholar I respected immensely with politics that are antithetical, if not outright hostile to mine) I’ve concluded that for the sake of your stories, it’s probably best to have the account under your name be the most anodyne shit imaginable, and a second account named something Vulgar where you do your political streetfighting(internet edition)
@@Supertroy1974 fair enough
@@Supertroy1974 I dunno, I feel knowing an author's leanings helps me understand why they came to the conclusions they did for the choices in their stories
Granted I don't exactly want to know what their politics are all the time so it would be good for them to separate those maybe
@@ThatGuy-mt7hq Stirling lives in a little mountain town in the southwest (New Mexico). He's not the kind of guy to sneer at either mountain folk or westerners.
I made some speculations, which I shared over on FB, that Norman Arminger was well ahead of the typical (1990s) SCA stick jock curve. In 1998. HEMA itself was pretty nascent, ARMA was still known as HACA, and even in HEMA groups, there were methods and assumptions that only after a lot of examination and testing out of source materials (fechtbuchs) in retrospect, prove laughable, or at least awkward. Stirling confirmed my speculations that Armiger had been doing a LOT of Pre-Change studying and practicing out of then available texts, so when his does his public demonstration of slaughtering four government and military officials in a mismatched "combat", Armiger doesn't move and strike at all like the somewhat stiff "stick and board" Society fighter. In fact, the gangbangers, bikers, and Russian mobsters Norman expands his aristocracy with, may have had a much easier time learning historically based medieval-style fighting than the long term Society fighters--the former wouldn't have to unlearn sports competition, heavy safety emphasis reflexes and patterns.